Johnny Jolly - an interseting guy

[Patler]

I have a feeling there are many sides to Johnny Jolly. Interesting article about him here:

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20091231/PKR01/91231108/1058/Jolly-raises-questions-off-the-field--answers-on-game-day

About Jolly the player, I found this quote to be interesting:


“Johnny sees things faster than the normal person,” Trgovac said. “That’s a God-given ability for him. He loves the game. He’s watching tape, and when he’s watching tape, he knows what he needs to look for. Half the time, this guy knows where the play’s going by the formation and the stance of the offensive lineman and stuff like that.”

How he handled the draft of Raji, who was then penciled in as the starter ahead of Joly:


“He never said a word about it, never complained about it,” defensive line coach Mike Trgovac said. “I’ve been around long enough in this league to know that when you draft a guy in the first round and that high, he’s going to get a great shot at the job and everything. But Johnny never flinched. He believed in his abilities, and I was impressed by that.”

He seems to have some priorities right, some attitudes right, some goals right. On others he may need to mature, but it seems he has a chance. For his sake, I hope he can get the drug charges behind him, pay for it in a reasonable way, learn from it and move on with an NFL career. A prison sentence could very well doom him to the wrong paths in life.


There is another side to Jolly, too: the one that bought a new home for his mother and is involved in the lives of two twin boys whose own mother, to whom Jolly refers as his godsister, was shot and killed in May 2007.

Though Jolly says he isn’t concerned about how he’s perceived in light of his arrest — “It’s a lot of people that things get portrayed about them, but they’ve got to live their life” — he also speaks like someone eager to change those perceptions and show more of the side that thinks about his family before every game.

“That’s where my fire comes from,” Jolly said. “It’s why God has me in the place I am right now. I just look at it that way, thank God for my family and the opportunity he gave me and take advantage of it.”

[vince]

Good points Patler. If he's found guilty, wouldn't he pretty much be looking at probation from a legal standpoint and a suspension of four games from the NFL? Or would jail-time be likely?

I was flat out wrong about Jolly's play this past offseason. After writing him off coming off his arrest and changing to the 3-4. He's shown athletic ability that I never saw in him prior to this year. He's always had a knack for swatting passes down, but I thought he was out of position in the 3-4 at DE and NT both. Turns out he can play some DE in this scheme. I'm happy to say he's had me eating crow multiple games this year key stops, sacks, pressures, batted balls and even interceptions.

I think Pickett is also a big signing this offseason, and I don't envy TT's predicament with trying to get both guys signed, but I no longer would be perfectly content seeing Jolly walk (like Cole and Williams) as I've said in the past. He's been a big part of our success on D this year.

[pbmax]

To me, Jolly points out the problems I have with identifying talent, even in the preseason when it should be more obvious. While I understood and agreed with the tag and trade of Corey Williams, I thought the team was taking a hit by losing a talented player that would be replaced by a lesser player.

I had even forgotten that Jolly won the starting nod over Williams in 07 I think until injury took him out of the lineup. All I could keep in my head was the pass rush Williams provided, and that was the lasting impression.

This year, in this defense, Jolly shows why that is not the be-all measuring stick for a D lineman.

[bobblehead]

When we drafted Harrell I was disgusted because a couple scouts compared him to Jolly. WTF, comparing our first round pick to a guy we took in the 6th the year before!!! Now I would be thrilled if Harrell put in a Jolly like season next year.

[Fritz]

I think Vince and PB make good points about why being a fan makes it more difficult in some regards to assess a team's moves or lack thereof.

A GM has to also look at the big picture - I'm guessing Thompson saw in Jolly some of the qualities that Williams had, maybe others, maybe some better qualities, and knew that it would be wise for the organization to get as much for Williams as possible while he was at the height of his value. He must have seen that Jolly was capable of replacing Williams, so he needed to let Williams go. Imagine if TT had done what many fans wanted - give Williams a big contract. Now they'd be handcuffed by that contract, which would affect their ability to sign other guys like Pickett and Collins.

But as fans, we see a lack of pass rush while it's 2008 and we're watching Jake Delhomme or Matt Schaub stand in the pocket with all day to throw, and we thunder about Thompson's incompetence.

It would be a tough job, being a GM. You've got to build a team but you can't ask fans to be too patient, either.

[Tyrone Bigguns]

To me, Jolly points out the problems I have with identifying talent, even in the preseason when it should be more obvious. While I understood and agreed with the tag and trade of Corey Williams, I thought the team was taking a hit by losing a talented player that would be replaced by a lesser player.

I had even forgotten that Jolly won the starting nod over Williams in 07 I think until injury took him out of the lineup. All I could keep in my head was the pass rush Williams provided, and that was the lasting impression.

This year, in this defense, Jolly shows why that is not the be-all measuring stick for a D lineman.

A certain GM didn't have your problem. :wink:

[pbmax]

To me, Jolly points out the problems I have with identifying talent, even in the preseason when it should be more obvious. While I understood and agreed with the tag and trade of Corey Williams, I thought the team was taking a hit by losing a talented player that would be replaced by a lesser player.

I had even forgotten that Jolly won the starting nod over Williams in 07 I think until injury took him out of the lineup. All I could keep in my head was the pass rush Williams provided, and that was the lasting impression.

This year, in this defense, Jolly shows why that is not the be-all measuring stick for a D lineman.

A certain GM didn't have your problem. :wink:
And I am glad he did not. But Thompson did lose pass rush in that transaction.

And that points to the fact that the coaches and talent guys have to be on the same page, because even then you may need to take a step back before going forward again when Williams' leverage had outstripped his value. Even though Jolly may be the better overall player (certainly the better overall DE in a 3-4) the Packers never did regain the pass rush of the first 2/3 of the 2007 season. And that was a very big factor (though not the only one) in the failings of Sanders and the hiring of Capers.

[vince]

Jolly Now Owns the Franchise Record for Batted Balls (http://www.packers.com/news/stories/2009/12/31/1/)


Jolly's two batted passes against the Seahawks gave him 11 for the season, the most ever by a Packers defensive lineman since the team began recording the statistic in 1980. According to STATS, he also leads all NFL defensive linemen in the category, with Buffalo's Marcus Stroud and the New York Giants' Justin Tuck ranking second with eight each.

"It's just like basketball," Jolly said, who lettered three times in that sport at Forest Brook High in Houston. "It's like blocking shots, like Dwight Howard or LeBron James. It's just all about reaction and getting that push toward the quarterback.

"Sometimes you can't get to the quarterback to make a sack or get a hit on him, so you've got to get your hands up when you see him release the ball. You've got to know the down-and-distance, if he's going long or going short. That's all it is."

Jolly's mark of 11 passes defensed broke the previous team high registered by his teammate, defensive end Cullen Jenkins, who batted down nine passes in 2007.

"Actually during the game we were sitting on the sideline and Jenks (Jenkins) was like, 'Man, you broke my record,'" Jolly said. "I said, 'What are you talking about?' I didn't have a clue. I didn't even know they kept that stat. It's a good thing that I broke it, but hopefully I can get more."

[mraynrand]

To me, Jolly points out the problems I have with identifying talent, even in the preseason when it should be more obvious. While I understood and agreed with the tag and trade of Corey Williams, I thought the team was taking a hit by losing a talented player that would be replaced by a lesser player.

I had even forgotten that Jolly won the starting nod over Williams in 07 I think until injury took him out of the lineup. All I could keep in my head was the pass rush Williams provided, and that was the lasting impression.

This year, in this defense, Jolly shows why that is not the be-all measuring stick for a D lineman.

A certain GM didn't have your problem. :wink:
And I am glad he did not. But Thompson did lose pass rush in that transaction.

And that points to the fact that the coaches and talent guys have to be on the same page, because even then you may need to take a step back before going forward again when Williams' leverage had outstripped his value. Even though Jolly may be the better overall player (certainly the better overall DE in a 3-4) the Packers never did regain the pass rush of the first 2/3 of the 2007 season. And that was a very big factor (though not the only one) in the failings of Sanders and the hiring of Capers.

I didn't think Williams was all that special. As I said at the time, a lot of his pressures/sacks came in the games against Detroit. Judging him based on those performances is like thinking Zydrunas Ilgauskas is the next coming of Shaq after he DOMINATES Golden State!

P.S. Colin Cole looked beyond pedestrian playing for Seattle....

[boiga]

While I agree with most of the positives listed about Jolly, I thought Rob Demovsky made an interesting point about him in a recent interview fro SportsRadio1250. Rob pointed out that this is a contract year for Jolly, and that his off the field issues are a big enough red flag that the Packers should worry about a post payout let down in play.

His words were " Jolly looks like Cletidus Hunt all over again."

My take is that Jolly's play deserves to be payed... eventually. However, he will be an RFA next year thanks to the uncapped season, and other teams will likely be scared off by his drug arrest that he should be affordable for one more year.

After that, if he maintains this level of play for one more year and stays out of trouble, tie him up and pay the man.

[MJZiggy]

While I agree with most of the positives listed about Jolly, I thought Rob Demovsky made an interesting point about him in a recent interview fro SportsRadio1250. Rob pointed out that this is a contract year for Jolly, and that his off the field issues are a big enough red flag that the Packers should worry about a post payout let down in play.

His words were " Jolly looks like Cletidus Hunt all over again."

My take is that Jolly's play deserves to be payed... eventually. However, he will be an RFA next year thanks to the uncapped season, and other teams will likely be scared off by his drug arrest that he should be affordable for one more year.

After that, if he maintains this level of play for one more year and stays out of trouble, tie him up and pay the man.

I think Rob might be a bit off there. Look back at Cletidus and see what kind of responsibility he took on off the field. It could just be faulty memory, but I don't remember hearing much about him taking care of others.

[Patler]

I think Rob might be a bit off there. Look back at Cletidus and see what kind of responsibility he took on off the field. It could just be faulty memory, but I don't remember hearing much about him taking care of others.

...or studying film, or attending all of the off-season sessions, etc. Demovsky seems to be ignoring the fact that Jolly has actually played pretty well since he got there. Hunt had "an awakening" in his contract year, but always had issues about his commitment to the team. Sure this is Jolly's best year, but shouldn't a young player get better in his first 3-4 years?

That said, I'm sure the Packers will just give him a one year deal as an RFA until his legal issues are behind him. I would expect them to do that with any RFA player in Jolly's legal situation, no matter who it was.

[Fritz]

While I agree with most of the positives listed about Jolly, I thought Rob Demovsky made an interesting point about him in a recent interview fro SportsRadio1250. Rob pointed out that this is a contract year for Jolly, and that his off the field issues are a big enough red flag that the Packers should worry about a post payout let down in play.

His words were " Jolly looks like Cletidus Hunt all over again."

My take is that Jolly's play deserves to be payed... eventually. However, he will be an RFA next year thanks to the uncapped season, and other teams will likely be scared off by his drug arrest that he should be affordable for one more year.

After that, if he maintains this level of play for one more year and stays out of trouble, tie him up and pay the man.

I think Rob might be a bit off there. Look back at Cletidus and see what kind of responsibility he took on off the field. It could just be faulty memory, but I don't remember hearing much about him taking care of others.

Your memory is faulty there, MJ. He went out of his way to take care of his drug dealer. Very generous.

[mraynrand]

Rob Demovsky: His words were " Jolly looks like Cletidus Hunt all over again."


Well, Ole Rob has it all wrong. Jonny Jolly ain't go nuthin' on 'Ole Cleedeeus! 'Ole Cleedeeus bring da bling!

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/CleditusBling.jpg

[MJZiggy]

While I agree with most of the positives listed about Jolly, I thought Rob Demovsky made an interesting point about him in a recent interview fro SportsRadio1250. Rob pointed out that this is a contract year for Jolly, and that his off the field issues are a big enough red flag that the Packers should worry about a post payout let down in play.

His words were " Jolly looks like Cletidus Hunt all over again."

My take is that Jolly's play deserves to be payed... eventually. However, he will be an RFA next year thanks to the uncapped season, and other teams will likely be scared off by his drug arrest that he should be affordable for one more year.

After that, if he maintains this level of play for one more year and stays out of trouble, tie him up and pay the man.

I think Rob might be a bit off there. Look back at Cletidus and see what kind of responsibility he took on off the field. It could just be faulty memory, but I don't remember hearing much about him taking care of others.

Your memory is faulty there, MJ. He went out of his way to take care of his drug dealer. Very generous.

:lol: :lol:

[RashanGary]

I'm a big Jolly fan.

If he would have been healthy, I think we would have went to the SB in 2007. I believe the first 8 games we were the 6th ranked defense. After losing Jolly and KGB we sunk to about 15th. But to sink from 6th to 15th in 8 games, we were obviously playing bad defense.


I think of he and Jenkins as about equals. Jenkins being better against the pass and still good against the run and Jolly being better against the run and still good against the pass.


Can't wait to get Pickett back. I think our big 4 up front is the starting point of our great defense. Pickett doesn't play alot, but as good as he is against the run, and the rest he gives everyone else, we're a lot better with him than without. With those guys healthy, we honestly have a shot to knock off anyone.