the_idle_threat
07-30-2006, 12:28 AM
Position-by-position: Special teams
Packers still not set at kicking positions
by Bob McGinn
http://www.jsonline.com//graphics/owlive/img/jul06/Tamilee_130.jpg
Green Bay - The last time the Green Bay Packers tried to replace a successful kicker, in roundabout fashion it worked.
Twice before that, it failed.
From 1989-2005, Chris Jacke and Ryan Longwell attempted all but five of the team's field-goal attempts. Despite six seasons kicking off the uneven surface of Milwaukee County Stadium and all 17 in the erratic conditions of Lambeau Field, the pair combined to make 78.86% of field goals and 98.64% of extra points, counting playoffs, and excelled in the clutch.
"Amazing," said Mike Stock, the Packers' new special-teams coach with 42 years in the business. "We're starting all over again."
That's because the organization, namely former coach Mike Sherman and general manager Ted Thompson, ultimately decided that Longwell wasn't worth re-signing for big money. Quick as a flash, Longwell left as an unrestricted free agent to take a $3 million signing bonus from the archrival Minnesota Vikings.
Their decision was startling on several counts, not the least of which is the degree of difficulty required to kick for the Packers. Stock, 66, readily acknowledged the potential for disaster kicking in a Wisconsin winter.
Jacke's career ended badly. Regarded as self-centered by GM Ron Wolf, he wasn't as efficient on field goals in his final three seasons (1994-'96) and also didn't kick off to management's liking. Counting playoffs, he made 76.4% of field goals and 98.5% of extra points.
A few months after Super Bowl XXXI, the Packers drafted Brett Conway in the third round and said goodbye to Jacke. "There's not a question in my mind, he'll be here for a long time," special-teams coach Nolan Cromwell said of Conway on the eve of training camp in 1997.
But when Conway flopped, never kicking in a regular-season game, the Packers conveniently had Longwell in their back pocket via a shrewd waiver claim by Wolf on July 10 of that year.
The Packers were far less fortunate in 1984 when coach Forrest Gregg traded the great Jan Stenerud to the Vikings for a seventh-round pick on the eve of camp and went with Eddie Garcia. He was gone by midseason to be replaced by Al Del Greco, who provided reliable work until mid-1987 before Gregg made another mistake by cutting him and signing Max Zendejas.
Zendejas was fine for a while, but then he was sent packing in mid-1988. Dean Dorsey, Dale Dawson and Curtis Burrow combined to miss six of 12 field goals and six extra points in the last eight weeks that year before Jacke rode to the rescue courtesy of Tom Braatz' sixth-round selection in the '89 draft.
The Packers tried and failed to sign New England's Adam Vinatieri, the one cold-weather kicker with a better track record than even Longwell, and elected not to sign flighty Mike Vanderjagt, the all-time field goal marksman (87.5%) who doesn't kick off. Stock said he had no objections to management's decisions at the position.
Instead, they decided to go with veteran free agents Billy Cundiff and Dave Rayner, at least for now. Six-year veteran Paul Edinger is first on the club's emergency list. One of them will be asked to kick like Longwell, Jacke, Del Greco and Stenerud, not Conway, Garcia and the other failures.
Cundiff made 60 of 82 field goals (73.2%) as the kicker in Dallas for most of the last four seasons. He made merely five of eight in 2005 before being unceremoniously dumped by coach Bill Parcells on Dec. 26.
"Billy Cundiff is the most accurate of the two at this point," Stock said shortly before the start of camp. "He's been in the 70s but he needs to get higher to be consistently successful here. In these elements that will be a tough nut to crack. But he is a very, very strong-minded guy."
Both Cundiff and Rayner generally get more distance and hang time on kickoffs than Longwell, who averaged 62.66 yards and 3.60 seconds of hang time in '05. Counting playoffs, Longwell made 80.9% of field goals and 98.8% of extra points.
Rayner converted just 68.9% (62 of 90) at Michigan State. Drafted in the sixth round by Indianapolis to relieve Vanderjagt on field goals, his kickoffs were so mediocre that the Colts cut him after Week 14. He missed his one field goal (43 yards) in exhibitions and his one (59) in the regular season.
Two special-teams coaches said Rayner had the strongest leg of any kicker in the '05 draft.
"He's a very strong kickoff guy," Stock said. "His accuracy has been the bone of contention with him. You've got to have somebody who can score. After that, it's a matter of kickoffs."
Almost as open is the punting job, where two-year Canadian Football League veteran Jon Ryan is the favorite to push aside B.J. Sander. He set a CFL record of 50.6 in '05 for Winnipeg. He also kicked field goals but didn't hold.
"Right now Jon Ryan is ahead," said Stock. "Everybody told me that Ryan drives the ball. What I was surprised about is his hang time is as good as his distance. He drove the ball but he had hang time. His directional stuff is fine, too."
Sander started out OK during off-season drills but went downhill at the end, the same pattern last season when he averaged 42.3 in the first eight games and 36.3 in the last six.
Ryan clearly has the stronger leg, but there have been days when Sander has better hang time. Sander's get-off times are somewhat better as well.
According to Stock, Sander also is a better holder than Ryan even though he botched several last season, much to Longwell's consternation. Quarterback Aaron Rodgers has tried holding but isn't a strong consideration.
"(Sander) has shown to have better hands than Ryan," Stock said. "Ryan's hands have gotten better. But the guy's not going to be the punter because he's the better holder."
Other than Rob Davis' long-snapping and solid coverage by the punt team, the best area on special teams that ranked 32 in overall performance was the punt returning by Antonio Chatman. He tied for 12th at 8.5 yards and went a third consecutive season without losing a fumble.
Thompson and coach Mike McCarthy didn't like Chatman's height at wide receiver and let him walk as an unrestricted free agent to Cincinnati.
Asked to name his No. 1 punt returner, Stock said it would be Charles Woodson. That could be a pipedream because Woodson starts at cornerback, returned just 12 punts (6.4 average) in eight seasons for Oakland and averaged a modest 8.6 on 33 punts for Michigan.
"He wants to do it," Stock said. "He's done it some but they had Tim Brown there."
The more logical candidates, all drafted rookies, would be wide receiver Greg Jennings, cornerback Will Blackmon and wide receiver Cory Rodgers, who fumbled several punts in practice Friday night.
For kickoff returns, which basically were hopeless in '05, Stock will pick from among three holdovers (Najeh Davenport, Ahmad Carroll, Samkon Gado) and three newcomers (Blackmon, Jennings, Rodgers).
An NFL special-teams coach for 13 years, Stock will have the benefit of a full-time assistant for the first time in Shawn Slocum.
"We've had some down years, too, but we've had success where I've been," Stock said. "These people are no different. They are players who want to succeed in the NFL. And there's a bite in their attitude about what happened last year."
*****************************
At a Glance
The six specialists on the Green Bay roster. Each player is listed with height, weight, age, how acquired and college. Acquisition categories: FA means free agent, W means awarded on waivers and D3 means third-round draft choice.
Special teams at a Glance
KICKERS (2)
Player Ht. Wt Age Acquired College
BILLY CUNDIFF 6-1 201 26 FA-'06 Drake
Signed one-year, $590,280 (no signing bonus) contract with Packers on March 24, three days after being waived by Tampa Bay when the Buccaneers re-signed Matt Bryant.
DAVE RAYNER 6-2 210 23 FA-'06 Michigan State
Grew up in tiny Oxford, Mich., billed as the "Gravel Pit Capital of the World." Kicked off so well at the '05 combine that Indianapolis drafted him in the sixth round to relieve Mike Vanderjagt of those duties.
PUNTERS (2)
JON RYAN 6-0 202 24 FA-'06 Regina (Canada)
Turned down what reportedly was a $40,000 signing bonus from the New York Giants to take $35,000 from Packers on Feb. 1, part of a three-year, $948,750 deal.
B.J. SANDER 6-3½ 218 26 D3-'04 Ohio State
Ranked 30th in the NFL with gross average of 39.2 and was 31st in net at 33.9. Finished on injured reserve with bone bruise on his left knee and watched Ryan Flinn punt.
LONG SNAPPERS (2)
ROB DAVIS 6-3 284 37 FA-'97 Shippensburg
Received a $25,000 re-signing bonus as part of a one-year, $800,720 contract on Feb. 13. His rare bad snap on extra point against Tampa Bay led to 17-16 defeat in Week 3.
THOMAS GAFFORD 6-2 252 23 FA-'06 Houston
Served as the Cougars' snapper from 2001-'04 but was out of football in '05. Signed by the Packers to offer a degree of competition to Davis in camp. Dabbled as a tight end.
Packers still not set at kicking positions
by Bob McGinn
http://www.jsonline.com//graphics/owlive/img/jul06/Tamilee_130.jpg
Green Bay - The last time the Green Bay Packers tried to replace a successful kicker, in roundabout fashion it worked.
Twice before that, it failed.
From 1989-2005, Chris Jacke and Ryan Longwell attempted all but five of the team's field-goal attempts. Despite six seasons kicking off the uneven surface of Milwaukee County Stadium and all 17 in the erratic conditions of Lambeau Field, the pair combined to make 78.86% of field goals and 98.64% of extra points, counting playoffs, and excelled in the clutch.
"Amazing," said Mike Stock, the Packers' new special-teams coach with 42 years in the business. "We're starting all over again."
That's because the organization, namely former coach Mike Sherman and general manager Ted Thompson, ultimately decided that Longwell wasn't worth re-signing for big money. Quick as a flash, Longwell left as an unrestricted free agent to take a $3 million signing bonus from the archrival Minnesota Vikings.
Their decision was startling on several counts, not the least of which is the degree of difficulty required to kick for the Packers. Stock, 66, readily acknowledged the potential for disaster kicking in a Wisconsin winter.
Jacke's career ended badly. Regarded as self-centered by GM Ron Wolf, he wasn't as efficient on field goals in his final three seasons (1994-'96) and also didn't kick off to management's liking. Counting playoffs, he made 76.4% of field goals and 98.5% of extra points.
A few months after Super Bowl XXXI, the Packers drafted Brett Conway in the third round and said goodbye to Jacke. "There's not a question in my mind, he'll be here for a long time," special-teams coach Nolan Cromwell said of Conway on the eve of training camp in 1997.
But when Conway flopped, never kicking in a regular-season game, the Packers conveniently had Longwell in their back pocket via a shrewd waiver claim by Wolf on July 10 of that year.
The Packers were far less fortunate in 1984 when coach Forrest Gregg traded the great Jan Stenerud to the Vikings for a seventh-round pick on the eve of camp and went with Eddie Garcia. He was gone by midseason to be replaced by Al Del Greco, who provided reliable work until mid-1987 before Gregg made another mistake by cutting him and signing Max Zendejas.
Zendejas was fine for a while, but then he was sent packing in mid-1988. Dean Dorsey, Dale Dawson and Curtis Burrow combined to miss six of 12 field goals and six extra points in the last eight weeks that year before Jacke rode to the rescue courtesy of Tom Braatz' sixth-round selection in the '89 draft.
The Packers tried and failed to sign New England's Adam Vinatieri, the one cold-weather kicker with a better track record than even Longwell, and elected not to sign flighty Mike Vanderjagt, the all-time field goal marksman (87.5%) who doesn't kick off. Stock said he had no objections to management's decisions at the position.
Instead, they decided to go with veteran free agents Billy Cundiff and Dave Rayner, at least for now. Six-year veteran Paul Edinger is first on the club's emergency list. One of them will be asked to kick like Longwell, Jacke, Del Greco and Stenerud, not Conway, Garcia and the other failures.
Cundiff made 60 of 82 field goals (73.2%) as the kicker in Dallas for most of the last four seasons. He made merely five of eight in 2005 before being unceremoniously dumped by coach Bill Parcells on Dec. 26.
"Billy Cundiff is the most accurate of the two at this point," Stock said shortly before the start of camp. "He's been in the 70s but he needs to get higher to be consistently successful here. In these elements that will be a tough nut to crack. But he is a very, very strong-minded guy."
Both Cundiff and Rayner generally get more distance and hang time on kickoffs than Longwell, who averaged 62.66 yards and 3.60 seconds of hang time in '05. Counting playoffs, Longwell made 80.9% of field goals and 98.8% of extra points.
Rayner converted just 68.9% (62 of 90) at Michigan State. Drafted in the sixth round by Indianapolis to relieve Vanderjagt on field goals, his kickoffs were so mediocre that the Colts cut him after Week 14. He missed his one field goal (43 yards) in exhibitions and his one (59) in the regular season.
Two special-teams coaches said Rayner had the strongest leg of any kicker in the '05 draft.
"He's a very strong kickoff guy," Stock said. "His accuracy has been the bone of contention with him. You've got to have somebody who can score. After that, it's a matter of kickoffs."
Almost as open is the punting job, where two-year Canadian Football League veteran Jon Ryan is the favorite to push aside B.J. Sander. He set a CFL record of 50.6 in '05 for Winnipeg. He also kicked field goals but didn't hold.
"Right now Jon Ryan is ahead," said Stock. "Everybody told me that Ryan drives the ball. What I was surprised about is his hang time is as good as his distance. He drove the ball but he had hang time. His directional stuff is fine, too."
Sander started out OK during off-season drills but went downhill at the end, the same pattern last season when he averaged 42.3 in the first eight games and 36.3 in the last six.
Ryan clearly has the stronger leg, but there have been days when Sander has better hang time. Sander's get-off times are somewhat better as well.
According to Stock, Sander also is a better holder than Ryan even though he botched several last season, much to Longwell's consternation. Quarterback Aaron Rodgers has tried holding but isn't a strong consideration.
"(Sander) has shown to have better hands than Ryan," Stock said. "Ryan's hands have gotten better. But the guy's not going to be the punter because he's the better holder."
Other than Rob Davis' long-snapping and solid coverage by the punt team, the best area on special teams that ranked 32 in overall performance was the punt returning by Antonio Chatman. He tied for 12th at 8.5 yards and went a third consecutive season without losing a fumble.
Thompson and coach Mike McCarthy didn't like Chatman's height at wide receiver and let him walk as an unrestricted free agent to Cincinnati.
Asked to name his No. 1 punt returner, Stock said it would be Charles Woodson. That could be a pipedream because Woodson starts at cornerback, returned just 12 punts (6.4 average) in eight seasons for Oakland and averaged a modest 8.6 on 33 punts for Michigan.
"He wants to do it," Stock said. "He's done it some but they had Tim Brown there."
The more logical candidates, all drafted rookies, would be wide receiver Greg Jennings, cornerback Will Blackmon and wide receiver Cory Rodgers, who fumbled several punts in practice Friday night.
For kickoff returns, which basically were hopeless in '05, Stock will pick from among three holdovers (Najeh Davenport, Ahmad Carroll, Samkon Gado) and three newcomers (Blackmon, Jennings, Rodgers).
An NFL special-teams coach for 13 years, Stock will have the benefit of a full-time assistant for the first time in Shawn Slocum.
"We've had some down years, too, but we've had success where I've been," Stock said. "These people are no different. They are players who want to succeed in the NFL. And there's a bite in their attitude about what happened last year."
*****************************
At a Glance
The six specialists on the Green Bay roster. Each player is listed with height, weight, age, how acquired and college. Acquisition categories: FA means free agent, W means awarded on waivers and D3 means third-round draft choice.
Special teams at a Glance
KICKERS (2)
Player Ht. Wt Age Acquired College
BILLY CUNDIFF 6-1 201 26 FA-'06 Drake
Signed one-year, $590,280 (no signing bonus) contract with Packers on March 24, three days after being waived by Tampa Bay when the Buccaneers re-signed Matt Bryant.
DAVE RAYNER 6-2 210 23 FA-'06 Michigan State
Grew up in tiny Oxford, Mich., billed as the "Gravel Pit Capital of the World." Kicked off so well at the '05 combine that Indianapolis drafted him in the sixth round to relieve Mike Vanderjagt of those duties.
PUNTERS (2)
JON RYAN 6-0 202 24 FA-'06 Regina (Canada)
Turned down what reportedly was a $40,000 signing bonus from the New York Giants to take $35,000 from Packers on Feb. 1, part of a three-year, $948,750 deal.
B.J. SANDER 6-3½ 218 26 D3-'04 Ohio State
Ranked 30th in the NFL with gross average of 39.2 and was 31st in net at 33.9. Finished on injured reserve with bone bruise on his left knee and watched Ryan Flinn punt.
LONG SNAPPERS (2)
ROB DAVIS 6-3 284 37 FA-'97 Shippensburg
Received a $25,000 re-signing bonus as part of a one-year, $800,720 contract on Feb. 13. His rare bad snap on extra point against Tampa Bay led to 17-16 defeat in Week 3.
THOMAS GAFFORD 6-2 252 23 FA-'06 Houston
Served as the Cougars' snapper from 2001-'04 but was out of football in '05. Signed by the Packers to offer a degree of competition to Davis in camp. Dabbled as a tight end.