RFA, The Poison Pill and the Revenge of Logan Mankins

[pbmax]

from: Football Outsiders, Under the Cap: Poison Pill (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/under-cap/2010/under-cap-poison-pill) by J.I. Halsell

Essentially, that if there is not a new CBA and all those fourth and fifth year players are RFAs instead of UFAs, the Restricted class will contain twice the players and possibly twice the quality of the usual Free Agent class. A look at some of the more tempting items.

Here are some of the more tempting options:

Cleveland linebacker D'Qwell Jackson
Denver defensive end Elvis Dumervil
Denver wide receiver Brandon Marshall
Dallas wide receiver Miles Austin (although Jerry Jones has alluded recently to being interested in signing Austin to a long-term deal)
Green Bay safety Nick Collins
Houston tight end Owen Daniels (his market value clearly took a hit when he blew out his knee, but there’s no doubting that prior to the injury he was one of the more productive players at his position)
Houston linebacker DeMeco Ryans
Miami running back Ronnie Brown
Minnesota defensive end Ray Edwards
New England offensive lineman Logan Mankins
New Orleans offensive lineman Jammal Brown
New York Jets wide receiver Braylon Edwards
Philadelphia fullback Leonard Weaver (Weaver joined the Eagles as an unrestricted free agent and has now reverted to restricted free agency due to the uncapped year)
San Diego wide receiver Vincent Jackson
San Diego offensive lineman Marcus McNeill
San Diego linebacker Shawne Merriman
St. Louis safety O.J. Atogwe

[pbmax]

Given the prices below, would anyone the Packers be interested in be tendered too low?

Right of First Refusal (also known as the low tender): $1,101,000 or 110% of previous year’s salary
Right of First Refusal With Original-Round Compensation: $1,101,000 or 110% of previous year’s salary
Right of First Refusal With Second-Round Compensation: $1,684,000 or 110% of previous year’s salary
Right of First Refusal With First-Round Compensation: $2,396,000 or 110% of previous year’s salary
Right of First Refusal With First- and Third-Round Compensation: $3,043,000 or 110% of previous year’s salary

You would think that Mankins or Edwards would be attractive. But I am not sure if Jackson, Dumervil or Ryans would fit a 3-4.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I'd like to sign Ray Edwards for spite. :)

Seriously, why spend a load on Mankins when you could draft a guy like Maurkice Pouncy? (At least that's how I think TT thinks.)

[Lurker64]

You would think that Mankins or Edwards would be attractive. But I am not sure if Jackson, Dumervil or Ryans would fit a 3-4.

Dumervil was playing in a 3-4 in Denver last year, and he only lead the league with 17 sacks.

[pbmax]

You would think that Mankins or Edwards would be attractive. But I am not sure if Jackson, Dumervil or Ryans would fit a 3-4.

Dumervil was playing in a 3-4 in Denver last year, and he only lead the league with 17 sacks.
Yes, but he was playing a 3-4 of a Belicheck disciple. And while Nolan was his coordinator, Nolan has moved back and forth between 4-3 and 3-4 enough that I would be unsure of how Dumervil was used.

Has he ever dropped into coverage? Or is he essentially playing like Suggs and Ware?

[Bretsky]

We're Green Bay

You guys really thinking about free agency :?: :?: [/b]

[swede]

We're Green Bay

You guys really thinking about free agency :?: :?: [/b]

Stay open-minded. Just because herds of turtles usually DON'T stampede doesn't mean they CAN'T stampede.

[MJZiggy]

By the way, fantabulous thread title!

[Fritz]

We're Green Bay

You guys really thinking about free agency :?: :?: [/b]

Exactly. Just like trying to talk about Ted the Draft-Pick-Lover ever, ever trying to move up to grab a player. Unheard of.

Thompson has patterns, but he's not as rigid as you make him out to be, Bretsky.

[pbmax]

We're Green Bay

You guys really thinking about free agency :?: :?: [/b]
You aren't going to trap me with your trolling. This post is about Nick Collins!!!

[Patler]

We're Green Bay

You guys really thinking about free agency :?: :?: [/b]
You aren't going to trap me with your trolling. This post is about Nick Collins!!!

Speaking of Collins, the highest tender should be a no-brainer, shouldn't it? His '09 salary was a little over $3 million I think, so the tender would be around $3.5.

[pbmax]

We're Green Bay

You guys really thinking about free agency :?: :?: [/b]
You aren't going to trap me with your trolling. This post is about Nick Collins!!!

Speaking of Collins, the highest tender should be a no-brainer, shouldn't it? His '09 salary was a little over $3 million I think, so the tender would be around $3.5.
I would think so. Its a reasonable salary and a second round pick doesn't do him or the team justice. But the Packers have thrown that 1st and 3rd compensation around like a manhole cover. I don't even think they used it on KGB.

[Patler]

We're Green Bay

You guys really thinking about free agency :?: :?: [/b]
You aren't going to trap me with your trolling. This post is about Nick Collins!!!

Speaking of Collins, the highest tender should be a no-brainer, shouldn't it? His '09 salary was a little over $3 million I think, so the tender would be around $3.5.
I would think so. Its a reasonable salary and a second round pick doesn't do him or the team justice. But the Packers have thrown that 1st and 3rd compensation around like a manhole cover. I don't even think they used it on KGB.

On the other side of it, if you are another team, would you give up a 1st and 3rd if you could sign Collins to a 5 year contract at an acceptable price?

[pbmax]

We're Green Bay

You guys really thinking about free agency :?: :?: [/b]
You aren't going to trap me with your trolling. This post is about Nick Collins!!!

Speaking of Collins, the highest tender should be a no-brainer, shouldn't it? His '09 salary was a little over $3 million I think, so the tender would be around $3.5.
I would think so. Its a reasonable salary and a second round pick doesn't do him or the team justice. But the Packers have thrown that 1st and 3rd compensation around like a manhole cover. I don't even think they used it on KGB.

On the other side of it, if you are another team, would you give up a 1st and 3rd if you could sign Collins to a 5 year contract at an acceptable price?
I don't think so. He's a Pro Bowler, but he's not quite an All-Pro in league). And as a safety, it is not a first priority position like CB or Left Tackle. So the market is thinner. I do think he'd get an offer if the compensation was just the second rounder.

Which lead to an interesting question; since Collins was a second round pick, could you tender him at the second lowest number and get the 2nd round pick (original round) or is the minimum tender for a 2nd round pick the explicit Second-Round Compensation?

[Joemailman]

Which lead to an interesting question; since Collins was a second round pick, could you tender him at the second lowest number and get the 2nd round pick (original round) or is the minimum tender for a 2nd round pick the explicit Second-Round Compensation?

How does the 110% of previous year's salary kick in? Would Collins get that whether they give him the Original Round tender or the 2nd round tender?
Colledge is in the same situation. I suspect the Packers would be happy to get a 2nd round pick for Colledge.
What kind of tender do they give Jolly. Original round tender would get Packers only a 6th round pick if someone signs him. Does anyone know when Jolly's trial is?

Right of First Refusal (also known as the low tender): $1,101,000 or 110% of previous year’s salary
Right of First Refusal With Original-Round Compensation: $1,101,000 or 110% of previous year’s salary
Right of First Refusal With Second-Round Compensation: $1,684,000 or 110% of previous year’s salary
Right of First Refusal With First-Round Compensation: $2,396,000 or 110% of previous year’s salary
Right of First Refusal With First- and Third-Round Compensation: $3,043,000 or 110% of previous year’s salary

[Patler]

(ii) For Restricted Free Agents with four Accrued Seasons (in Uncapped Years):

(1) Right of First Refusal: one year Player Contract with Paragraph 5 Salary of at least ... $1,176,000 for the 2010 League Year, ...;

(2) Right of First Refusal and Draft Selection at Player’s Original Draft Round: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) the amount set forth in Subsection (b)(ii)(1) above; or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged (this Subsection is subject to the rules of Subsection (c) below);

(3) Right of First Refusal and One Second Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least ... $1,759,000 in the 2010 League Year, ... or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged

(4) Right of First Refusal and One First Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with a Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) ... $2,521,000 for the 2010 League Year, .... or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged; and

(5) Right of First Refusal, One First Round Draft Selection, and One Third Round Draft Selection: one year Player Contract with Paragraph 5 Salary of at least (a) ... $3,168,000 for the 2010 League Year, ..., or (b) 110% of the player’s prior year’s Paragraph 5 Salary, whichever is greater; in addition, if option (b) applies, all other terms of the player’s prior year contract are carried forward unchanged.

[Lurker64]

Considering that Collins's base salary for 2009 was $3,045,000, I don't see any way they don't tender him at the first and third level.

[pbmax]

From that section, it certainly seems like 2 and 3 are the same for Collins, except for $600,000 of salary. He was a second round pick, correct? Of course, unless you are Al Davis and have Marcus Allen on the roster, you probably don't want to tick off your players that way.

[Fritz]

The first and third tender makes the most sense and is not an untenable salary at all. If someone wants to give up a first and third, wow. That'd be a gamble, as good as Collins is.

I'd like to see the Packers keep this guy at the end of the day.

[MadScientist]

Given his salary last year, the only one that can apply is the 1st and 3rd.

Since this thread has poison pill in the title, has there been any change to the league rules about writing contracts for RFA's that make it impossible for the original team to match the offer. I'm thinking of those contracts that have things like $10M bonus for playing more than 4 games in a given state, etc.

[pbmax]

Given his salary last year, the only one that can apply is the 1st and 3rd.

Since this thread has poison pill in the title, has there been any change to the league rules about writing contracts for RFA's that make it impossible for the original team to match the offer. I'm thinking of those contracts that have things like $10M bonus for playing more than 4 games in a given state, etc.
Nope, and that is exactly the point. With more attractive players in RFA, a lack of quality and numbers in UFA and the availability of terms to guarantee success of any tendered deal (poison pills) all it will take is a team willing to part with some draft picks.

One thing no one has mentioned is that I am sure owners will want to reign in this provision. There are two basic things the NFLPA lacks that the baseball union has and those are guaranteed contracts and arbitration. Arbitration is a mechanism that works like a conveyor belt to move free agent gains in baseball to young veterans. Because as soon as a FA signs a monster deal, then agents can use that salary data in arbitration hearings.

Young veterans in the NFL do not have such a mechanism. They are faced with the RFA restrictions.

But the poison pill contracts contain something that no NFL team wants to see. Completely guaranteed money, should someone match an offer. Much more likely is the opportunity that a player might get their home club to offer nearly guaranteed money in order to fend off an even more unfriendly tender offer. I could see a bad GM falling for this.

Once that genie is out of the bottle, the battle will get fierce. The only holdup is whether the player needs to sign the tender offer from a competing club. I assume they do, but if they don't, then the player/agent wouldn't have time to shop it around and then the original team has no time to do a backdoor deal for better terms.