Who Should TT Draft 1st Round?

[Joemailman]

Based on a survey of 5 Draft Sites, I'll say that the top 22 players off the board will be:
Ndamukong Suh, Gerald McCoy, Eric Berry, Russell Okung, Sam Bradford, Derrick Morgan, Joe Haden, Jimmy Clausen, Trent Williams, Anthony Davis, Rolando McClain, Dez Bryant, C.J. Spiller, Brian Bulaga, Carlos Dunlap, Earl Thomas, Bruce Campbell, Jason Pierre-Paul, Mike Iupati, Brian Price, Taylor Mays, and Sergio Kindle.

Based on that, who should TT pick on the 1st Round?

[Lurker64]

If Davis, Bulaga, Campbell, and Iupati are off the board at #23, there isn't really an offensive lineman left worth taking in the first.

You could trade down and get Brown in the early second, though he's not a first round talent as he's small and weak at this point (though he does have LT feet).

But if I had to pick one of those guys left, I'm taking Brandon Graham.

[3irty1]

Jerry Hughes Jr. DE, TCU

[Joemailman]

Unless he blows everybody away at the Combine, Hughes is another guy who could be available somewhere in the 2nd round. I looked at the big board of 3 sites and he was rated 39, 48 and 71 overall.

By the way, although I have Sergio Kindle going in the top 22, 3 of the 5 sites I used had him available at #23. Seems to be a lot of disagreement about how early he'll go.

[Fred's Slacks]

I'd love to say trade up for Iupati. But he's raw and I have little faith that our coaching staff could develop him. So I selected Brandon Graham. He was a beast at the senior bowl and he'd instantly improve our pass rush which in turn improves our secondary.

[hurleyfan]

I'd love to say trade up for Iupati. But he's raw and I have little faith that our coaching staff could develop him. So I selected Brandon Graham. He was a beast at the senior bowl and he'd instantly improve our pass rush which in turn improves our secondary.

Crap, can't remember his name (OLB for the Steelers... Defensive POY), would Graham fill a need like him in Capers defense?

[Joemailman]

James Harrison? I've actually seen him compared to Woodley, who plays on the other side for Pittsburgh.

[Fritz]

Thing is, Kampman can rush the passer too, but he can't seem to cover. How are Graham's coverage skills going to be? He played DE for Michigan. Does anybody who pays attention better than I do know the answer or have an idea?

[hurleyfan]

James Harrison? I've actually seen him compared to Woodley, who plays on the other side for Pittsburgh.

Thanks Joe!
can Graham play that "style" or he is more a DE?

[Joemailman]

Well, that's what everyone will be trying to figure out. Some of the drills they run at the combine will be very important in helping teams try to determine if he has the athletic flexibility to play coverage.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Who TT SHOULD draft is a whole lot different question than who TT WILL draft.

I don't think he will draft an offensive lineman. Why? All the top guys in this year's draft have question marks. Why chance your #1 pick on a guy who has a 50/50 chance of being a John Michels or a Ross Verba when to do it you have to pass on a really good skill player? Good O-lineman can as likely be found in lower rounds.

As things stand right now, if TT decides to pick an offensive lineman, I'd put my money on Maurkice Pouncey. Why? The guy is the best center in the country. Think Nick Mangold. He's 20 years old. Wells and Spitz are not the long-term answer at center. Even if they are, Pouncey is athletic enough to play guard. He's even played tackle. He's big now and could easily put more weight on his frame. He's got sterling attitude and work ethic.

The problem is, after the combine, TT would probably have to trade up to get him. (Yeah, I know Centers aren't drafted with #1 picks, but Pouncey could be the exception.)

Actually, I hope all the O-lineman get picked prior to TT's pick, because then more surer bets at other positions will fall to the Packers. In that case, TT's choice could be a semi-surprise.

For instance, he could draft a running back like Jonathan Dwyer or Ryan Matthews or even Jahvid Best. (The first two could share duties with Grant; the third would be a great change of pace. However, McStubby would have to change his "pass or nothing" philosophy to make the choice of a RB worthwhile.) Or TT could go with a middle linebacker like Brandon Spikes (depends on what the future is for Hawk). Or a CB like Donovan Warren (depends on the development of Lee and Underwood and the health of Blackmon). Or a DE like Brandon Graham (playoffs proved the Pack needs more pass rush). Or a Or even a WR like Damian Williams (although not as likely).

My bet would be on a defensive guy who can rush the passer, like Graham or Sergio Kindle, who just might fall in TT's lap.

Who SHOULD TT draft with his #1?

I'll wait for the Combine, but as things stand right now I think the Pack should draft the top defensive guy available who can rush the passer. Maybe Kindle. Maybe Graham. If Pouncey is still within reach after the Combine, I'd pick him.

[Pugger]

If there aren't any decent OTs left (or TT doesn't trade up) then maybe TT will take a CB seeing our starters are getting a little long in the tooth...?

[Maxie the Taxi]

If there aren't any decent OTs left (or TT doesn't trade up) then maybe TT will take a CB seeing our starters are getting a little long in the tooth...?

Believe it or not, for a rather weak draft class, this year's crop of CB's is fairly deep. After Joe Hayden, however, there's much debate over who's next.

Patrick Robinson is rated a first rounder by some, but is there really a lot of difference between Robinson and Dominque Franks or Kyle Wilson or Kareem Jackson or even Javier Arenas? Sure, Robinson has the measurables, but Arenas is a player. I heard the Pack is interested in Wilson. But are any of these guys better than Pat Lee or Brandon Underwood? Both these guys could have breakout years next year. I like Underwood a lot.

If I were TT, I'd pick Arenas in the 2nd/3rd Round. He's an outstanding return man and durable, which would allow us to unload Blackmon who has proved he's electric, but subject to severe outages every season. :)

[Maxie the Taxi]

By the way, Arenas played better than all the CB in the Senior Bowl. But I don't see him as a corner in the NFL.

Arenas reminds me of Leroy Butler, tough, smart and a nose for the football. He's about as fast as Butler and the same weight, only 2 inches shorter.

The Combine will make or break this guy's fortune, but considering his potential at DB and his return ability, he's a no brainer for me.

He's way better than Bush -- he's got football smarts -- and that has to be a reason to draft him right there.

[RashanGary]

1st round: Probowl LT
2nd round: Probowl CB


SB here we come!!

[sheepshead]

My rule, until there's a rookie cap, if someone offers anything reasonable, get out of the first round.

[Smidgeon]

My rule, until there's a rookie cap, if someone offers anything reasonable, get out of the first round.

I think the only contracts in the first round that are untenable are the contracts of the top 10 picks. Picking at #23 won't require an exorbitant contract.

[sharpe1027]

My rule, until there's a rookie cap, if someone offers anything reasonable, get out of the first round.

I think the only contracts in the first round that are untenable are the contracts of the top 10 picks. Picking at #23 won't require an exorbitant contract.

Yeah, those top 10 are just horrid. I agree with Sheep though, it is not a bad idea to get out of first round when you can get something decent in trade.

[get louder at lambeau]

As things stand right now, if TT decides to pick an offensive lineman, I'd put my money on Maurkice Pouncey. Why? The guy is the best center in the country. Think Nick Mangold. He's 20 years old. Wells and Spitz are not the long-term answer at center. Even if they are, Pouncey is athletic enough to play guard. He's even played tackle. He's big now and could easily put more weight on his frame. He's got sterling attitude and work ethic.

That's an interesting thought. I'm no draftnik by any stretch, but he seems like a TT kind of pick by your description. Then Spitz could play LG, if healthy, and they'd have Colledge and Lang to use however they want, like RT, backup LT, etc. Maybe if College got to practice full time as a T, he might go back to being the favorite to replace Clifton, as he was to many prior to this year.

[Guiness]

My rule, until there's a rookie cap, if someone offers anything reasonable, get out of the first round.

I think the only contracts in the first round that are untenable are the contracts of the top 10 picks. Picking at #23 won't require an exorbitant contract.

Yeah, those top 10 are just horrid. I agree with Sheep though, it is not a bad idea to get out of first round when you can get something decent in trade.

Please don't turn this into another salary structure debate!

[wist43]

Based on need... TT needs to look at OT and DB in the 1st 3 rounds.

Would like to see 2 new DB's on the field next year... hoping Underwood can develop further. Not holding out much hope for Lee.

[packrulz]

I prefer not to get too excited about any of these guys until after the combine, it's hard to tell right now who will still be there at #23. To be honest, I've never seen most of these guys play, and most sites want money for you to read their scouting reports, but nfldraftcountdown.com and fftoolbox.com have free basic information. I'm sick and tired of going into every season expecting Clifton and Taucher to start every game, they're getting old and have had lots of surgeries, it's not going to happen. Plus, they aren't great run blockers. One guy I think would be at least a good RT, and has played LT, is Ciron Black, he's tough, started all 4 years, and is a very good run blocker. Another problem the Packers have is at Safety, Kiper says TT will draft Taylor Mays and I think he will be good, some scouts are down on him because USC had a bad year, but he has the physical tools.

2010 NFL Draft Prospect Scouting Report:
person
Ciron Black, OL, LSU
Black has been the pillar of the LSU offensive line for four consecutive seasons, and he is one of the most experienced players in all of college football. Since redshirting in 2005, the senior tackle has started an incredible 52 straight games for the Tigers; 13 as a freshman, 14 as a sophomore, 13 as a junior, and so far 12 in his final campaign in Baton Rouge. Black was named a First-Team Freshman All-American by several publications in 2006, and he was an All-SEC performer in each of his next two seasons. The Tigers have been plagued by injuries this year so the offense has not been piling up a ton of yards, but Charles Scott (4.7 yards per carry) and Keiland Williams (5.3 ypc) have found success running behind a stellar offensive front.

Black also projects well to the NFL, and not just because he is extremely durable. In the mold of most LSU linemen, Black stands at an imposing 6'5'' and 322 pounds. He runs in the mid-5.3s of the 40-yard dash and has been clocked faster than 5.30 at that distance; impressive speed for a man of his size. Scouts will also love the fact that Black is an outstanding person off the field who excels in the classroom. The only real drawback--if you can call it that--is that Black, who has played both right and left tackle for the Tigers, is not an NFL left tackle (the more valuable position). He is an excellent run-blocker, but he must improve in the pass-blocking department if he is ever to protect a quarterback's blind side. Even so, Black is a lock to be off the board before the end of the second round, and he even has a shot at a late first-round selection.


2010 NFL Draft Prospect Scouting Report:
person
Taylor Mays, FS, USC
Mays possesses one of the most distinguished resumes of any prospect, regardless of position, in this year's draft. He was the PAC-10 Co-freshman of the year in 2006 when he registered 62 tackles and 6 interceptions. He followed his outstanding freshman campaign with a 65 tackle, 1 interception and 1 forced fumble season in 2007.Mays was voted to the Sporting News Magazine's first Team All American after the season; had a solid 53 tackle year in 2008. For his action, AP named him to their first team All-American squad. He also was a finalist for the Jim Thorpe Award, which is given to the nation's best defensive back.

The 6-foot-3 safety is one of the best pure athletes in this draft, blessed with uncanny athleticism and agility. Solidly built with raw power, he possesses incredible range and even better coverage awareness. Shows the acceleration and sheer speed to assist cornerbacks over the top. Has top notch closing burst and pursuit speed to rundown ballcarriers and stay with WRs downfield.

On the downside, he is not the most punishing hitter. Can be overaggressive and tends to miss some tackles in space. He is a low, drag-down tackler. Will stop moving his feet and lunge at the ballcarrier. Has not shown the hip turning skill many scouts covet and his backpedaling needs more work. Lacks the fluidity to move on a dime. Can be fooled by play action and double pup fakes, which allows receivers to get behind him. Should have been more productive playing in a pass happy conference.

Once projected as a top 5 pick, Mays' stock took a plunge with USC's less than stellar season and a mediocre Senior Bowl performance. Still, he has the physical ability to be drafted in the first round. He is a unique safety prospect who is more adept at covering receivers than at assisting the run. The athleticism is there and he if puts out the work, Mays could start early in his NFL career and be making an immediate impact.

[Fritz]

"one of the most distinguished resumes..."


Guess I've never thought of any football player's resume as "distinguished." Mebbe that safety from Florida who was a Rhodes Scholar.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I agree with you, packrulz, it's a bit early to get excited. However, even after the combine, who knows about offensive linemen? There are plenty of problems evaluating OL prospects:

1) There's not a lot of film available to the public (youtube, etc.) on O-linemen;

2) Even if there were film, most of us (me included) are not technically smart enough to evaluate it properly;

3) The biggest problem with following scouting reports online is that they seem pretty good at comparing and ranking prospects within their class year, but few if any rank them with current NFL players. So a particular tackle might be the best of this year's crop, but not good enough to start in the NFL, let alone become an all-pro.

Most of us can evaluate skill-position players pretty good because there's a lot of film available and most of us can recognize a speedy back or receiver who's elusive and has good hands.

Unlike us, the NFL team scouts are pretty good evaluators of O-line talent though. If a lot of tackles go in the first round, you can bet the talent available is on a parr with current NFL talent. If only one or two tackles are selected in the first round, the talent available isn't too good.

[sheepshead]

"one of the most distinguished resumes..."


Guess I've never thought of any football player's resume as "distinguished." Mebbe that safety from Florida who was a Rhodes Scholar.

I know right. The nfl draft takes on a life of its own for the next few months. Everyone's an expert to the puke stage.

[Pugger]

What if that Charles Brown slips to the second round? Or is there someone else to consider further down the line at OT? :?:

[Fritz]

Does he have a distinguished resume?

[Maxie the Taxi]

What if that Charles Brown slips to the second round? Or is there someone else to consider further down the line at OT? :?:

To tell you the truth if TT is set on drafting an O-lineman with the 23rd pick or later, I won't have anything to say about it one way or the other. The only one I've seen play is Pouncey.

[KYPack]

What if that Charles Brown slips to the second round? Or is there someone else to consider further down the line at OT? :?:

To tell you the truth if TT is set on drafting an O-lineman with the 23rd pick or later, I won't have anything to say about it one way or the other. The only one I've seen play is Pouncey.

That Ciron Black will probably be gone before we get a shot. I don't get why they say he can't play LT, that's been his position. I saw him a bit last season. One game, he dominated. The next, he disappeared.

I agreee with your posts above. I can't say I can evaluated college boy OT's either. The pro scouts didn't do that good, either. Jason Smith was supposed to be sure fire, he had a very spotty rookie year. The only OT rookie that really shined last season was Oher.

OT and safety would have to be our focus, so therefore I KNOW TT will draft a WR.

[Smidgeon]

What if that Charles Brown slips to the second round? Or is there someone else to consider further down the line at OT? :?:

To tell you the truth if TT is set on drafting an O-lineman with the 23rd pick or later, I won't have anything to say about it one way or the other. The only one I've seen play is Pouncey.

That Ciron Black will probably be gone before we get a shot. I don't get why they say he can't play LT, that's been his position. I saw him a bit last season. One game, he dominated. The next, he disappeared.

I agreee with your posts above. I can't say I can evaluated college boy OT's either. The pro scouts didn't do that good, either. Jason Smith was supposed to be sure fire, he had a very spotty rookie year. The only OT rookie that really shined last season was Oher.

OT and safety would have to be our focus, so therefore I KNOW TT will draft a WR.

Honestly, if the value is that much better than anyone else available, I personally think a stud WR to play (in the future) opposite GJ is a need. DD isn't getting any younger and three excellent skill position players receiving the ball (GJ, JF, and the yet unselected WR to replace DD) would make the offense even more unstoppable. That is, if the offense can be any more unstoppable...

But I agree, value being the same, I would prefer to see an LT or S I can get excited about. Heck. I don't even care about what position the guy plays. I just want a player I can get excited about.

[Maxie the Taxi]

What if that Charles Brown slips to the second round? Or is there someone else to consider further down the line at OT? :?:

To tell you the truth if TT is set on drafting an O-lineman with the 23rd pick or later, I won't have anything to say about it one way or the other. The only one I've seen play is Pouncey.

That Ciron Black will probably be gone before we get a shot. I don't get why they say he can't play LT, that's been his position. I saw him a bit last season. One game, he dominated. The next, he disappeared.

I agreee with your posts above. I can't say I can evaluated college boy OT's either. The pro scouts didn't do that good, either. Jason Smith was supposed to be sure fire, he had a very spotty rookie year. The only OT rookie that really shined last season was Oher.

OT and safety would have to be our focus, so therefore I KNOW TT will draft a WR.

Honestly, if the value is that much better than anyone else available, I personally think a stud WR to play (in the future) opposite GJ is a need. DD isn't getting any younger and three excellent skill position players receiving the ball (GJ, JF, and the yet unselected WR to replace DD) would make the offense even more unstoppable. That is, if the offense can be any more unstoppable...

But I agree, value being the same, I would prefer to see an LT or S I can get excited about. Heck. I don't even care about what position the guy plays. I just want a player I can get excited about.

It seems the "sure bet" OT's go in the first round. They're usually big school, big name guys. Then, in the 2nd/3rd rounds the small school, high potential guys go. (I think that's where we got Sitton.) In the 4th and beyond are the real pot luck guys like Barbre. But O-lineman are a crapshoot.

As far as safeties go, the only one that worries me is Taylor Mays. He could be over-hyped and turn out a bust. Bad news, esp. if a #1 pick. I'd sooner go with a real ball player, like Javier Arenas and turn him into a safety ala Leroy Butler (Arenas reminds me a lot of Butler).

There are a number of good WR's. Damian Williams really fits the Packers' needs. He's fast, good run after catch and, best of all, he's been called the best route runner in the college game. But we could probably pickup a WR with potential in later rounds too.

All this makes me think TT will draft a RB! :) :)

[packrulz]

I agree with you, packrulz, it's a bit early to get excited. However, even after the combine, who knows about offensive linemen? There are plenty of problems evaluating OL prospects:

1) There's not a lot of film available to the public (youtube, etc.) on O-linemen;

2) Even if there were film, most of us (me included) are not technically smart enough to evaluate it properly;

3) The biggest problem with following scouting reports online is that they seem pretty good at comparing and ranking prospects within their class year, but few if any rank them with current NFL players. So a particular tackle might be the best of this year's crop, but not good enough to start in the NFL, let alone become an all-pro.

Most of us can evaluate skill-position players pretty good because there's a lot of film available and most of us can recognize a speedy back or receiver who's elusive and has good hands.

Unlike us, the NFL team scouts are pretty good evaluators of O-line talent though. If a lot of tackles go in the first round, you can bet the talent available is on a parr with current NFL talent. If only one or two tackles are selected in the first round, the talent available isn't too good.

Good point Max, and even the scouts are wrong sometimes. Two ex Wisconsin Badgers come to mind that were undrafted, Jim Leonhard (safety, Jets) and Jonathan Casillas, (WLB, Super Bowl bound Saints), and ended up not only making the team but playing a lot. Plus, TT has been drafting O-lineman, sometimes it takes time for them to develop, like with Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera.

[Fritz]

That's the thing about offensive linemen; if you draft one in the first round you can't get too excited about the first year because unless the name is Joe Thomas it takes time. It's not like the impact a Clay Mathews can visibly have, either - if an o-lineman is doing his job you don't hear anything.

[Bretsky]

That's the thing about offensive linemen; if you draft one in the first round you can't get too excited about the first year because unless the name is Joe Thomas it takes time. It's not like the impact a Clay Mathews can visibly have, either - if an o-lineman is doing his job you don't hear anything.


Michael Oher had a pretty dang good first year; my view is that the guys who play at big time programs are more apt to be ready for the big show

The projects that come from smaller schools and have upside often take some time. There are examples to support and refute that but generally on the OL I think that will ring true quite often.

[Lurker64]

Michael Oher had a pretty dang good first year; my view is that the guys who play at big time programs are more apt to be ready for the big show

Baylor (Jason Smith) isn't really that much less of the "big time" than Ole Miss (Oher) is. They're both bottom-feeder schools in top conferences.

[packrulz]

Michael Oher had a pretty dang good first year; my view is that the guys who play at big time programs are more apt to be ready for the big show

Baylor (Jason Smith) isn't really that much less of the "big time" than Ole Miss (Oher) is. They're both bottom-feeder schools in top conferences.
Ditto for Joe Thomas & Mark Taucher (Wisconsin)

[Maxie the Taxi]

That's the thing about offensive linemen; if you draft one in the first round you can't get too excited about the first year because unless the name is Joe Thomas it takes time. It's not like the impact a Clay Mathews can visibly have, either - if an o-lineman is doing his job you don't hear anything.


Michael Oher had a pretty dang good first year; my view is that the guys who play at big time programs are more apt to be ready for the big show

The projects that come from smaller schools and have upside often take some time. There are examples to support and refute that but generally on the OL I think that will ring true quite often.

I think you're right. That's why you rarely see a small school O-lineman taken in the first round.

[KYPack]

You know, I hope we have our eye on some good OLineman that run slow 40's and can't lift well. That way, we'll gettem with lower picks. I mean, who cares how fast Lang ran a 40 or how many reps he did? The kid turned out to be a pretty good player. That shit has very little to do with actual performance.

Last year, Cincy got Rey Malaluega with a second round pick. He played poorly in the Senior Bowl and screwed up the 40 at the combine. nobody cares about that now, but they got a first round guy with a second round pick.

I hope we have our eye on some top talent and they do the same. Then turn out to be rookie terrors. We had a great draft last year. One more like it could put us over the top.

[Maxie the Taxi]

You know, I hope we have our eye on some good OLineman that run slow 40's and can't lift well. That way, we'll gettem with lower picks. I mean, who cares how fast Lang ran a 40 or how many reps he did? The kid turned out to be a pretty good player. That shit has very little to do with actual performance.

Last year, Cincy got Rey Malaluega with a second round pick. He played poorly in the Senior Bowl and screwed up the 40 at the combine. nobody cares about that now, but they got a first round guy with a second round pick.

I hope we have our eye on some top talent and they do the same. Then turn out to be rookie terrors. We had a great draft last year. One more like it could put us over the top.

I agree with that sentiment, KY. I was thinking about starting a thread on that subject: How much stock do we put in "measurables" vs "gamesmanship? I think Javier Arenas is a perfect example of a guy who will have (probably) poor measurables but is a flat out player of the game who has been underestimated by scouts his entire career -- starting at high school. Yet, you pull up film of him on Youtube -- even high school film -- and it's obvious the kid knows and loves football...a natural. He outplayed all the high-measurable guys at the Senior Bowl. Some guys are just football fast and football smart.

I think I read in a scouting report that one player (I think it was Carlos Dunlap, a DE out of Florida) was inconsistent because there was some question whether he really enjoyed playing football!!! Damn, if I was a scout I'd really be wary of a guy like that. Football is an emotional game and "heart" counts almost as much as physique in my book.

There are countless guys in the NFL who shouldn't be there on paper, but the game isn't played on paper. It's played on a field. So I'd watch film of the guy in action and put more stock in what I see on film than what I see on a stopwatch.

[Fritz]

Waldo is fond of pointing out that TT is perhaps more interested in numbers than we think.

Who was that third round middle linebacker from Iowa a few years back - a terror on the field for the Hawkeyes, but with some so-so measureables. But he was a football player and we - myself included - loved that.

I dunno. I frankly know just enough about drafting to complain bitterly post hoc while forgetting, years later, all the mistakes I would've made.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Waldo is fond of pointing out that TT is perhaps more interested in numbers than we think.

Who was that third round middle linebacker from Iowa a few years back - a terror on the field for the Hawkeyes, but with some so-so measureables. But he was a football player and we - myself included - loved that.

I dunno. I frankly know just enough about drafting to complain bitterly post hoc while forgetting, years later, all the mistakes I would've made.

Abdul Hodge. I loved the guy and was shocked he wasn't better. Maybe injuries got him.

[KYPack]

Waldo is fond of pointing out that TT is perhaps more interested in numbers than we think.

Who was that third round middle linebacker from Iowa a few years back - a terror on the field for the Hawkeyes, but with some so-so measureables. But he was a football player and we - myself included - loved that.

I dunno. I frankly know just enough about drafting to complain bitterly post hoc while forgetting, years later, all the mistakes I would've made.

Abdul Hodge. I loved the guy and was shocked he wasn't better. Maybe injuries got him.

Couldn't cover, then tore up his knee.

He plays for Cincy now.

Back-up LB at a couple spots and ST.

He is just now learning to cover. Greenway was defintely the guy from that team. I like Hodge, but he didn't have the cover skills.

[MadtownPacker]

Waldo is fond of pointing out ...And you are fond of pointing out what he is fond of points out like some kind of groupie. Get a grip.

As long as he drafts a Fresno St player I dont give a fuck. But OL and CB are priority.

[KYPack]

Waldo is fond of pointing out ...And you are fond of pointing out what he is fond of points out like some kind of groupie. Get a grip.

As long as he drafts a Fresno St player I dont give a fuck. But OL and CB are priority.

Hell yeah! Send us a Bulldog, Maddog.

That FS defense could really swarm. They got anybody that would help the Pack?

[ND72]

For the first time I think we're in a very good spot draft wise. We have a ton of ways we can look at our draft. As far as I'm concerned, we should have 22 starters coming back next year. You either take the best player at your spot, or, if there is a guy you want, you go get him. We continue to backload this team, and have our depth continue to grow and grow.

I would love for us to find a stud LT, a new starter at SS, another OLB, and a stud athlete to put anywhere and everywhere on offense, and another guy we could put anywhere on the DL.

#1 - LT
#2 - SS
#3 - OLB
#4 - Athlete
#5 - DL

That's my dream list.

[Maxie the Taxi]

For the first time I think we're in a very good spot draft wise. We have a ton of ways we can look at our draft. As far as I'm concerned, we should have 22 starters coming back next year. You either take the best player at your spot, or, if there is a guy you want, you go get him. We continue to backload this team, and have our depth continue to grow and grow.

I would love for us to find a stud LT, a new starter at SS, another OLB, and a stud athlete to put anywhere and everywhere on offense, and another guy we could put anywhere on the DL.

#1 - LT
#2 - SS
#3 - OLB
#4 - Athlete
#5 - DL

That's my dream list.

As long as we're dreaming...

LT - Maurkice Pouncey, Florida
SS - Javier Arenas, Alabama
OLB - Jerry Hughes, TCU
Athlete - Jordan Shipley, Texas
DL - Clifton Geathers, South Carolina

[Joemailman]

Waldo is fond of pointing out ...And you are fond of pointing out what he is fond of points out like some kind of groupie. Get a grip.

As long as he drafts a Fresno St player I dont give a fuck. But OL and CB are priority.

Hopefully if TT does take someone from Fresno State, he'll be better than Tyrone Culver.

[Scott Campbell]

For the first time I think we're in a very good spot draft wise. We have a ton of ways we can look at our draft. As far as I'm concerned, we should have 22 starters coming back next year. You either take the best player at your spot, or, if there is a guy you want, you go get him. We continue to backload this team, and have our depth continue to grow and grow.

I would love for us to find a stud LT, a new starter at SS, another OLB, and a stud athlete to put anywhere and everywhere on offense, and another guy we could put anywhere on the DL.

#1 - LT
#2 - SS
#3 - OLB
#4 - Athlete
#5 - DL

That's my dream list.


All important. But I'd add a CB and a kick returner in there, or via free agency.

[Scott Campbell]

Waldo is fond of pointing out ...And you are fond of pointing out what he is fond of points out like some kind of groupie. Get a grip.

As long as he drafts a Fresno St player I dont give a fuck. But OL and CB are priority.



Why are you so jealous of smart people?

[Maxie the Taxi]

For the first time I think we're in a very good spot draft wise. We have a ton of ways we can look at our draft. As far as I'm concerned, we should have 22 starters coming back next year. You either take the best player at your spot, or, if there is a guy you want, you go get him. We continue to backload this team, and have our depth continue to grow and grow.

I would love for us to find a stud LT, a new starter at SS, another OLB, and a stud athlete to put anywhere and everywhere on offense, and another guy we could put anywhere on the DL.

#1 - LT
#2 - SS
#3 - OLB
#4 - Athlete
#5 - DL

That's my dream list.


All important. But I'd add a CB and a kick returner in there, or via free agency.

Scott, that's the beauty of drafting Arenas. He's both a CB and returner.

[mission]

For the first time I think we're in a very good spot draft wise. We have a ton of ways we can look at our draft. As far as I'm concerned, we should have 22 starters coming back next year. You either take the best player at your spot, or, if there is a guy you want, you go get him. We continue to backload this team, and have our depth continue to grow and grow.

I would love for us to find a stud LT, a new starter at SS, another OLB, and a stud athlete to put anywhere and everywhere on offense, and another guy we could put anywhere on the DL.

#1 - LT
#2 - SS
#3 - OLB
#4 - Athlete
#5 - DL

That's my dream list.


All important. But I'd add a CB and a kick returner in there, or via free agency.

Scott, that's the beauty of drafting Arenas. He's both a CB and returner.

Maxie,I like the Arenas pick (at CB) a lot for a mid round gem.

Drafting Shipley as the "athlete" guy is like grabbing Jordy Nelson for the same thing. Not the explosiveness we're currently lacking on offense.

We're talkin Spiller, McCluster, Ford, Best, 4.3-4.4 guys... we have enough "try hard" guys. I want straight, raw TALENT.

[Smidgeon]

For the first time I think we're in a very good spot draft wise. We have a ton of ways we can look at our draft. As far as I'm concerned, we should have 22 starters coming back next year. You either take the best player at your spot, or, if there is a guy you want, you go get him. We continue to backload this team, and have our depth continue to grow and grow.

I would love for us to find a stud LT, a new starter at SS, another OLB, and a stud athlete to put anywhere and everywhere on offense, and another guy we could put anywhere on the DL.

#1 - LT
#2 - SS
#3 - OLB
#4 - Athlete
#5 - DL

That's my dream list.


All important. But I'd add a CB and a kick returner in there, or via free agency.

Scott, that's the beauty of drafting Arenas. He's both a CB and returner.

Maxie,I like the Arenas pick (at CB) a lot for a mid round gem.

Drafting Shipley as the "athlete" guy is like grabbing Jordy Nelson for the same thing. Not the explosiveness we're currently lacking on offense.

We're talkin Spiller, McCluster, Ford, Best, 4.3-4.4 guys... we have enough "try hard" guys. I want straight, raw TALENT.

I want both. A raw talent who is also a "try hard" guy. Talent without work ethic won't last long.

[Joemailman]

WR Taylor Price of Ohio is a speed guy who has moved up since the Senior Bowl. Didn't do much kick returning at Ohio though. Not sure if that was due to lack of ability returning kicks, or if there were injury concerns. Was victimized a bit by inconsistent QB play at Ohio. A guy to watch at the combine

[Fritz]

Waldo is fond of pointing out ...And you are fond of pointing out what he is fond of points out like some kind of groupie. Get a grip.

As long as he drafts a Fresno St player I dont give a fuck. But OL and CB are priority.

He's pretty smart, Waldo. Does his homework. Why point out what lame-brain idiots on this board think when I am more inclined to take seriously the work of the posters who actually put some time and thought and research into their opinions?

[mission]

For the first time I think we're in a very good spot draft wise. We have a ton of ways we can look at our draft. As far as I'm concerned, we should have 22 starters coming back next year. You either take the best player at your spot, or, if there is a guy you want, you go get him. We continue to backload this team, and have our depth continue to grow and grow.

I would love for us to find a stud LT, a new starter at SS, another OLB, and a stud athlete to put anywhere and everywhere on offense, and another guy we could put anywhere on the DL.

#1 - LT
#2 - SS
#3 - OLB
#4 - Athlete
#5 - DL

That's my dream list.


All important. But I'd add a CB and a kick returner in there, or via free agency.

Scott, that's the beauty of drafting Arenas. He's both a CB and returner.

Maxie,I like the Arenas pick (at CB) a lot for a mid round gem.

Drafting Shipley as the "athlete" guy is like grabbing Jordy Nelson for the same thing. Not the explosiveness we're currently lacking on offense.

We're talkin Spiller, McCluster, Ford, Best, 4.3-4.4 guys... we have enough "try hard" guys. I want straight, raw TALENT.

I want both. A raw talent who is also a "try hard" guy. Talent without work ethic won't last long.

I agree, but we have a slight history of taking guys we KNOW have the try hard and could use a little bit of raw talent. That's a safer choice, you need these types of players, yes...

Your core gets solidified and it takes the burst to put it over the top. So you do your research, try to get a guy that puts the work in, that really loves football, but also has crazy potential. Enough to let you overlook some red flags like McClusters size or Blount's stupid outburst. You take a couple more chances because the risk is so great, and because you have a great core of players in the lockerroom. We need to take a couple "shots" this draft... we're almost there! :gulp:

[The Shadow]

Secondary help.

[Maxie the Taxi]

For the first time I think we're in a very good spot draft wise. We have a ton of ways we can look at our draft. As far as I'm concerned, we should have 22 starters coming back next year. You either take the best player at your spot, or, if there is a guy you want, you go get him. We continue to backload this team, and have our depth continue to grow and grow.

I would love for us to find a stud LT, a new starter at SS, another OLB, and a stud athlete to put anywhere and everywhere on offense, and another guy we could put anywhere on the DL.

#1 - LT
#2 - SS
#3 - OLB
#4 - Athlete
#5 - DL

That's my dream list.


All important. But I'd add a CB and a kick returner in there, or via free agency.

Scott, that's the beauty of drafting Arenas. He's both a CB and returner.

Maxie,I like the Arenas pick (at CB) a lot for a mid round gem.

Drafting Shipley as the "athlete" guy is like grabbing Jordy Nelson for the same thing. Not the explosiveness we're currently lacking on offense.

We're talkin Spiller, McCluster, Ford, Best, 4.3-4.4 guys... we have enough "try hard" guys. I want straight, raw TALENT.

I hear you. You're thinking Percy Harvin. I thought of Best as within our reach...maybe. McCluster yes. Spiller will be gone early. Who's Ford?

[Joemailman]

I hear you. You're thinking Percy Harvin. I thought of Best as within our reach...maybe. McCluster yes. Spiller will be gone early. Who's Ford?

Jacoby Ford? http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1114251

[Lurker64]

LT - Maurkice Pouncey, Florida

He's without a doubt the best center in the draft, but what on earth makes you think he can play left tackle? Frequently you can take an OT from college and make him successful on the interior line, but there are few enough guards let alone centers who can play outside at the next level.

[Maxie the Taxi]

LT - Maurkice Pouncey, Florida

He's without a doubt the best center in the draft, but what on earth makes you think he can play left tackle?

I'm just guessing. He's got the size and athletic ability. He's played guard and tackle before settling in at center. His TWIN brother is one of the best guards in the country.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I hear you. You're thinking Percy Harvin. I thought of Best as within our reach...maybe. McCluster yes. Spiller will be gone early. Who's Ford?

Jacoby Ford? http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1114251

Oh. I don't know much about him. I'd have to see some film on YouTube or something.

[pbmax]

Mike Flanagan did it (Center to Tackle) for part of a season, in the most amazing position switch I have ever seen. No one covering the team thought that inured kid was going to be able to run right much less start after he started his comeback. Two years later he replaced Winters and then filled in for Cliffy after the Sapp hit. That season alone should put him in the Packer HOF.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Mike Flanagan did it (Center to Tackle) for part of a season, in the most amazing position switch I have ever seen. No one covering the team thought that inured kid was going to be able to run right much less start after he started his comeback. Two years later he replaced Winters and then filled in for Cliffy after the Sapp hit. That season alone should put him in the Packer HOF.

Pouncey has bounced around on the line a little bit at Florida, filling in for injured guys now and then. Urban Meyer liked that about him and McStubby seems to like that versatility too. Pouncey's a smart guy who works hard and has a great attitude. The Pouncey brothers played huge at Florida.

[mission]

I hear you. You're thinking Percy Harvin. I thought of Best as within our reach...maybe. McCluster yes. Spiller will be gone early. Who's Ford?

Jacoby Ford? http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1114251

Oh. I don't know much about him. I'd have to see some film on YouTube or something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0opXYZioCE&feature=fvw

He's supposedly faster than Spiller. Small at 5'9", has a good football frame and tremendous return ability. Not quite as shifty as Spiller. Fearless in the slot but needs to work on his hands.

I saw a different youtube video where he actually catches spiller from behind on a long touchdown run. Could really see the top end. 4th-5th round unless he runs a 4.3 on the combine ... then you could see him in the 3-4 maybe.

[Bretsky]

I hear you. You're thinking Percy Harvin. I thought of Best as within our reach...maybe. McCluster yes. Spiller will be gone early. Who's Ford?

Jacoby Ford? http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1114251

Oh. I don't know much about him. I'd have to see some film on YouTube or something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0opXYZioCE&feature=fvw

He's supposedly faster than Spiller. Small at 5'9", has a good football frame and tremendous return ability. Not quite as shifty as Spiller. Fearless in the slot but needs to work on his hands.

I saw a different youtube video where he actually catches spiller from behind on a long touchdown run. Could really see the top end. 4th-5th round unless he runs a 4.3 on the combine ... then you could see him in the 3-4 maybe.


I was pimping McCluster; I think you were as well

How do you compare Ford with McCluster ????

[mission]

I hear you. You're thinking Percy Harvin. I thought of Best as within our reach...maybe. McCluster yes. Spiller will be gone early. Who's Ford?

Jacoby Ford? http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/players/1114251

Oh. I don't know much about him. I'd have to see some film on YouTube or something.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0opXYZioCE&feature=fvw

He's supposedly faster than Spiller. Small at 5'9", has a good football frame and tremendous return ability. Not quite as shifty as Spiller. Fearless in the slot but needs to work on his hands.

I saw a different youtube video where he actually catches spiller from behind on a long touchdown run. Could really see the top end. 4th-5th round unless he runs a 4.3 on the combine ... then you could see him in the 3-4 maybe.


I was pimping McCluster; I think you were as well

How do you compare Ford with McCluster ????

Yeah, I really like McCluster. Stature wise, it's not even close... Ford looks like a short football player out there. He's surprisingly thick. Maybe better top end speed and 100 yard play potential.

McCluster on the other hand really has to be an exception to the rule. There isn't a ton of precedent out there for 5'6" guy but he plays really tough, can take SEC hits, stays in the game, makes lots of guys miss *like that* ... he extends plays and manages to get big first downs at big times when it doesn't look likely. His hands are top notch and he can make a big catch in traffic... often splits out.

I think overall McCluster has had more production on the field and just seems more into the game, more of a bigtime guy. If we missed out on Dex because someone grabs him 2-3 then I'd like to see Ford.

This is one of the most exciting, open-ended drafts for us that I can remember. You'd think with a low-ish pick of 23, it'd be a little more of a downer.

[Fritz]

I have to go with McCluster for one simple reason:

while he's breaking one, the announcers can say "Oh my God! It's a McCluster F*ck out there!"

[Bretsky]

I have to go with McCluster for one simple reason:

while he's breaking one, the announcers can say "Oh my God! It's a McCluster F*ck out there!"


ahoh

our history of liking the same players is not so good :lol:

[swede]

This is one of the most exciting, open-ended drafts for us that I can remember. You'd think with a low-ish pick of 23, it'd be a little more of a downer.



Trading up for CMIII was really exciting last year. Maybe TT is getting his groove on draftwise. It would be great to have another draft class that pushes veterans.

[Joemailman]

I'm not sure that trading up for CMIII was about pushing veterans. I think it was more about adding an element of the 3-4 defense that was completely missing. Not sure you'll see that this year unless TT trades up to take one of the top OT's.

[Lurker64]

I'm not sure that trading up for CMIII was about pushing veterans. I think it was more about adding an element of the 3-4 defense that was completely missing. Not sure you'll see that this year unless TT trades up to take one of the top OT's.

Well, I think part of his trading up is probably that he realized that the roster is at the point where continuing to add "slightly above average depth guys and hope one of them exceeds expectations" isn't going to improve the roster much. It's the sort of thing you do when one of your WRs is named "Taco", but once you have a young roster that's fairly talented, quality starts to be more important than quantity.

[swede]

I'm not sure that trading up for CMIII was about pushing veterans. I think it was more about adding an element of the 3-4 defense that was completely missing. Not sure you'll see that this year unless TT trades up to take one of the top OT's.

You didn't think Poppy felt pushed? I'm just saying, as Lurker interpreted, that we probably no longer need to wheel and deal our 7 picks into 10 draft picks. As you say, our needs are so specific that it would come as no surprise if TT moves up once or twice in this draft to get an OT or a defensive back that has dropped low enough to merit the swap. That's why I think this might be another exciting draft. Without so much pressure to add eight or nine players TT can play the draft differently.

And who doesn't love, on draft day, the little tone sound that goes off to inform you that the Bengals have traded their pick to Green Bay...and then you KNOW that whoever TT picks is a guy he really, really likes.

[Joemailman]

I never saw Poppy as a serious candidate. I believe CMIII would have been the starter from day one if he hadn't hurt his hamstring twice.

I agree we probably won't see TT making 10-11 picks again. However, I think Matthews was something of a special case, and I don't think you'll see TT trading 3 picks for 1 this year either. TT may actually be kind of quiet on draft day this year and not make any deals.

[Freak Out]

Did someone mention a RB that was 5 foot 6? That's really SHORT....almost midget stature.

[Joemailman]

I think they were talking about Dexter McCluster, who is actually listed at 5-8, 165.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Ford looks to me like a track guy playing football. Is he much of an upgrade over Swain?

Speaking of McCluster, here's another shifty little guy: Antonio Brown, 5'10, 182 pounds, Central Michigan. His 40 time is 4.45. Very impressive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT28lok7AGM

[mission]

Ford looks to me like a track guy playing football. Is he much of an upgrade over Swain?

Speaking of McCluster, here's another shifty little guy: Antonio Brown, 5'10, 182 pounds, Central Michigan. His 40 time is 4.45. Very impressive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT28lok7AGM

Swain is Nelson fast. But slower. :lol:

From what I've read and seen, Ford is built closest to a "football player" out of a lot of the track guys we see who come out.

And yeah, I was wrong about Dex's height. Either way, he has a knack of shifting at the last minute and not absorbing blows like you'd think.

If we could get him in the 4th, I'd be ecstatic... that's a good value spot where, even if he did end up having a short career, we could get a few highlights out of him for a season or three.

[Fritz]

I have to go with McCluster for one simple reason:

while he's breaking one, the announcers can say "Oh my God! It's a McCluster F*ck out there!"


ahoh

our history of liking the same players is not so good :lol:

But this year it's gonna be different, Bretsky!