2010 NFL draft combine thread

[packrulz]

Post your combine comments here. The best source for combine news I've found online is : http://www.nfl.com/combine
Right now everyone is wondering what round Florida QB Tebow will go and what position he will play. I predict some team that runs wildcat formations will draft him in the 3rd round.

[swede]

I thought he wasn't participating because he was changing his delivery style.

I predict the Raiders will take him in the second round.

[Joemailman]

I believe Tebow will be e there, but will not be throwing.

I'll be interested to see the weights of Charles Brown. Brown has been listed at 295. If he is still at that weight, he will need to convince people he has the frame to carry more weight if he wants to be drafted 1st round.

[3irty1]

My guess is that Brown is taken by the Seahawks at the top of the 2nd. Former Trojan and all.

[Maxie the Taxi]

The Combine isn't going to change much for the athletes in the draft, except, of course, if they stumble badly. It's just going to reinforce the rep of guys like Taylor Mays.

The Combine will make or break the "football instinct" guys that aren't considered now to have elite measureables. Guys like Javier Arenas, Toby Gerhart, Jonathan Dwyer, Jordan Shipley, Damian Williams, George Selvie, Jerry Hughes and Roddrick Muckelroy stand to gain or lose the most.

[Joemailman]

I think the combine can be important to all the guys looking to make the switch from DE to OLB. The linebacker drill they run to gauge a guys ability to move and change direction in space could make or break a guy like Brandon Graham.

[Maxie the Taxi]

I think the combine can be important to all the guys looking to make the switch from DE to OLB. The linebacker drill they run to gauge a guys ability to move and change direction in space could make or break a guy like Brandon Graham.

Good point (but then I could attach that comment to virtually all your posts).

I thought about the Combine's effect on Graham. Yeah, the LB drill could change some opinions about him, but sometimes I think NFL scouts and GM's put more stock in film and performance in big games, Senior Bowls, etc. I think the theory might be: The kid could have had a bad day, but how could he have had a bad run of four years performance in film?

[packrulz]

Fringe first-rounders have shot to assert themselves at combine
Pat Kirwan By Pat Kirwan | NFL.com
Senior Analyst It is time to shift gears from the playing field and head to the NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis to evaluate the draft prospects for 2010. I will be broadcasting my radio show from the combine Friday, Saturday and Sunday and posting my observations from the big event all week.

We all know about the apparent top prospects this year, but really nothing has been decided yet. When Nebraska's Ndamukong Suh lines up to run the 40-yard dash, all eyes will be watching. The same holds true for the other projected top five picks -- if they decide to work out. We already know that quarterbacks Sam Bradford and Jimmy Clausen will not throw at Lucas Oil Stadium, but there are many other athletes to evaluate. Remember, when certain prospects don't work out, it opens the door for others.
Combine on NFL.com, NFL Network
NFL.com and NFL Network will provide exclusive day-by-day scouting combine coverage starting on Thursday, Feb. 25 and running through Tuesday, March 2.

Regardless of position, speed is the first way to get noticed at the combine. Then come the other measurable tests, followed by the interviews and the position work.

Here are 10 players I have some real interest in watching perform. They are not household names yet, but they have a chance to be hot prospects and move into first-round contention or at least high in the second round.

Tony Pike, QB, Cincinnati
Pike will measure at 6-foot-5, making him the tallest QB prospect. That will interest many coaches who value the importance of height in the NFL. I have watched this guy on tape in a number of games, and he will impress with his mobility -- a solid short shuttle time would not surprise me, and a sub-5.0 40 is not out of the question. Without Bradford and Clausen throwing, Pike will take center stage, and his arm strength and accuracy should shine. The guy threw 48 touchdown passes and just 17 interceptions in the last two years. At least seven teams are looking for a quarterback in this draft, and Pike could establish himself as a Joe Flacco-type by the end of the combine.

Kyle Wilson, CB, Boise State
Wilson jumped out at me during the Senior Bowl practices. Watching him on tape has only made me more intrigued. If Wilson comes into Indianapolis and runs a 4.39 40 and hits his short shuttle close to 4.0, then he will move up the draft board. Right now he sits somewhere around the No. 4 or No. 5 corner, but that could change dramatically. He has great punt return skills that demonstrate game speed, which really is more important than straight-line speed. I expect Wilson to be a topic of conversation all combine long.

Brian Price, DT, UCLA
There are two big-time defensive tackles at the top of draft boards right now (Suh and Oklahoma's Gerald McCoy), and they deserve to be there. Price is closer to the fourth- or fifth-best DT in the draft. He could run close to 5.0 at 300-plus pounds this weekend; his 10-yard time as well as the short shuttle may be even more important. Why do I think he's capable of posting impressive numbers in those tests? Because when I watch him play on tape, he is explosive and relentless. In the last two years, on a bad defense, he has 38 tackles for a loss and 11 sacks. The 4-3 scheme is still the predominant defense in the NFL, and he is a fine "three-technique" candidate.

Ryan Mathews, RB, Fresno State
We all know C.J. Spiller from Clemson is the top prospect in the running back class, viewed as the next Chris Johnson. But there are never enough backs in a draft, and Mathews has a chance to make a statement at the combine. He missed seven games in his career but still managed to rush for 3,280 yards and 39 touchdowns. His physical exams will be critical, but watch him shine in his interviews and come away as a very coachable player. There's a chance he runs a sub-4.5 40 at close to 220 pounds.

Damian Williams, WR, USC
Williams reminds me of Donald Driver. He plays faster than his speed times, though he is capable of running a sub-4.5. He will do an exceptional job in his interviews, giving coaches a sense of his maturity. His 14.2-yard punt return average points toward a very respectable short shuttle, and he should do well in the receiver gauntlet drill. Williams comes into Indianapolis as the fourth or fifth receiver candidate but could leave as the No. 3 receiver if he completes all the work.

Matt Tennant, C, Boston College
Tennant made an impression on me at Senior Bowl practice, and I was even more impressed after interviewing him. He is really smart and competitive, which will shine through in his team interviews. He has been starting at BC since Matt Ryan was the quarterback and looks like he will be the 12th Boston College offensive lineman to play in the NFL next year. Tennant will measure at 6-foot-4 and just under 300 pounds. I have watched him pull from the center position, and he should run close to 5.0 in the 40 with an impressive short shuttle as well. He's not the first center on the board right now, but he could be by the end of his Indy visit.

Jason Pierre-Paul, DE, South Florida
Here's a guy who went to two different junior colleges and spent only one year at South Florida. Pierre-Paul will get some very tough interview questions, as coaches will want to know more about the one-year wonder. What they will see is a 6-foot-5, 265-pound raw athlete with long arms who can jump and really run. If you are in the market for potential, he could be the answer. His testing numbers should continue to push him up draft boards, but we shall see if measurables are enough for a guy that had 6.5 sacks last year.

Jermaine Gresham, TE, Oklahoma
I talked with Gresham last week, and he assured me that he was 100 percent healthy and ready to do all the testing after missing his senior year with a knee injury. Had he elected to come out early, he was thought to be a possible first-round pick in 2009. Gresham caught 25 touchdowns in the two previous seasons, and this combine could reignite the first-round conversations. He told me he would measure at 6-foot-4, 260 and should run around 4.7. You may want your tight end slightly faster, but he did average more than 14 yards a catch in college. Gresham will have to answer a few questions about an off-the-field issue, but after discussing the matter with him, I don't think it will affect him much.

Dexter McCluster, WR/RB, Mississippi
Interested in one of the most dangerous players in the draft and not worried about size? McCluster is your man. Some draft grading systems will prevent him from being a top 50 player simply because he checks in at 5-foot-8 and 165 pounds. But the college production, Senior Bowl practices and his combine testing should eliminate all fears. He is speed training with Olympian Michael Johnson and should really run and jump in Indianapolis. McCluster has to get his shoulder checked out from an old injury, which shouldn't be a problem. Some GM looking for the next Percy Harvin, Jeremy Maclin or DeSean Jackson is going to ignore the size and take this kid.

Tyson Alualu, DL, California
Some would say I am reaching for this guy when I only list 10 players. And sure, there are a number of other guys I can't wait to watch. But I just got done watching Alualu play three games on tape, and I just couldn't exclude him from this list. The guy can play anywhere on the defensive line because he's an athlete with a great motor. Alualu will excel in the running events at the combine and while he sits somewhere near the No. 7 defensive tackle on most boards, he should move up after this weekend. I saw the effort at Senior Bowl practices, and we will all see it again in the drills at the combine.

[3irty1]

The combine is probably the most important event for any of these guys (save QBs, Kickers, Punters and such). The NFL draft is about potential and the combine tells us more about potential than anything else.

[Smidgeon]

The combine is probably the most important event for any of these guys (save QBs, Kickers, Punters and such). The NFL draft is about potential and the combine tells us more about potential than anything else.

Disagree. Mostly because of what the source said to Peter King. If you're going into the combine without a clear idea (already) of who's better than whom, then I don't want you to be my team's GM.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/02/21/observations/index.html

[3irty1]

The combine is probably the most important event for any of these guys (save QBs, Kickers, Punters and such). The NFL draft is about potential and the combine tells us more about potential than anything else.

Disagree. Mostly because of what the source said to Peter King. If you're going into the combine without a clear idea (already) of who's better than whom, then I don't want you to be my team's GM.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/02/21/observations/index.html

Knowing whos better than whom is not the same as who's got more potential than whom. All of the mock drafts/big boards out there now take into account how people are expected to do at the combine. Meeting or exceeding expectations is the most important thing these individuals have to do once the season ends.

[Smidgeon]

The combine is probably the most important event for any of these guys (save QBs, Kickers, Punters and such). The NFL draft is about potential and the combine tells us more about potential than anything else.

Disagree. Mostly because of what the source said to Peter King. If you're going into the combine without a clear idea (already) of who's better than whom, then I don't want you to be my team's GM.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/02/21/observations/index.html

Knowing whos better than whom is not the same as who's got more potential than whom. All of the mock drafts/big boards out there now take into account how people are expected to do at the combine. Meeting or exceeding expectations is the most important thing these individuals have to do once the season ends.

I agree that the combine is big for those players who will be drafted late. But I also believe the most important parts of the combine are the interviews and medical exams.

[ND72]

I hate the combine. Too many people (Mel Kiper) put so much emphasis on the combine & pro days, around draft time you stop hearing and seeing how a player actually played during the season, and instead just a bunch of numbers that they did in shorts and a t-shirt. Give me guys that can play the game, not run really fast on one day that they trained for for 8 weeks.

[3irty1]

The combine is probably the most important event for any of these guys (save QBs, Kickers, Punters and such). The NFL draft is about potential and the combine tells us more about potential than anything else.

Disagree. Mostly because of what the source said to Peter King. If you're going into the combine without a clear idea (already) of who's better than whom, then I don't want you to be my team's GM.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/02/21/observations/index.html

Knowing whos better than whom is not the same as who's got more potential than whom. All of the mock drafts/big boards out there now take into account how people are expected to do at the combine. Meeting or exceeding expectations is the most important thing these individuals have to do once the season ends.

I agree that the combine is big for those players who will be drafted late. But I also believe the most important parts of the combine are the interviews and medical exams.

What? You think the combine is bigger for the second day guys than it is the first day guys? 6th and 7th rounders don't stand to lose millions. Yeah it might be more important from a GM or Mel Kiper standpoint where up until now you've only been able to do a 2 round mock draft at best. The combine is where the measurables are measured and that's pretty important when talking about prospects.

[Smidgeon]

The combine is probably the most important event for any of these guys (save QBs, Kickers, Punters and such). The NFL draft is about potential and the combine tells us more about potential than anything else.

Disagree. Mostly because of what the source said to Peter King. If you're going into the combine without a clear idea (already) of who's better than whom, then I don't want you to be my team's GM.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/02/21/observations/index.html

Knowing whos better than whom is not the same as who's got more potential than whom. All of the mock drafts/big boards out there now take into account how people are expected to do at the combine. Meeting or exceeding expectations is the most important thing these individuals have to do once the season ends.

I agree that the combine is big for those players who will be drafted late. But I also believe the most important parts of the combine are the interviews and medical exams.

What? You think the combine is bigger for the second day guys than it is the first day guys? 6th and 7th rounders don't stand to lose millions. Yeah it might be more important from a GM or Mel Kiper standpoint where up until now you've only been able to do a 2 round mock draft at best. The combine is where the measurables are measured and that's pretty important when talking about prospects.

I'll quote the Florio line: "The only time a guy is going to use his 40 speed in a straight line is when something really good happens or really bad happens." A good GM has his board mostly set.

The reason I think the combine is more important for lower round picks is either because they came from a less competetive program and need the measurables to boost their stock or because they have to show they have the potential to do more than they did in school. The top prospects have already established their potential by performing in college.

[pbmax]

There are very few ways to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges for a significant number of draft picks. Watching game tape cannot give you more than just a sense of how much the events on tape are because of the player and how much was a result of the matchup or level of competition.

If a group of players are from the same big time conference, then you probably get a better feel, because of common opponents and high level of competition. But if a player has only started a year, or missed a common opponent game or plays in a non-BCS conference, then you may have very little tape of that player going up against top college competition.

The combine gives you data on how much raw athleticism was a part of that player's overall package. It cannot tell you how they will perform on the field like numerous, good and relevant tape will. But it provides a baseline of comparison that is independent of competition, scheme or matchup and give you a list of players with similar playing backgrounds and physical attributes for comparison. That may give you an idea of the potential.

In short, relying too much on the Combine might get you Mike Mamula. But ignoring the Combine numbers might get you Abdul Hodge in the 3rd.

[Smidgeon]

There are very few ways to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges for a significant number of draft picks. Watching game tape cannot give you more than just a sense of how much the events on tape are because of the player and how much was a result of the matchup or level of competition.

If a group of players are from the same big time conference, then you probably get a better feel, because of common opponents and high level of competition. But if a player has only started a year, or missed a common opponent game or plays in a non-BCS conference, then you may have very little tape of that player going up against top college competition.

The combine gives you data on how much raw athleticism was a part of that player's overall package. It cannot tell you how they will perform on the field if there is numerous good and relevant tape on the guy. But it provides a baseline of comparison that is independent of competition, scheme or matchup and give you a list of players with similar playing backgrounds and physical attributes for comparison. That may give you an idea of the potential.

In short, relying too much on the Combine might get you Mike Mamula. But ignoring the Combine numbers might get you Abdul Hodge in the 3rd.

And putting too much weight on the combine lets players like Jerry Rice drop in the 1st or Greg Jennings to the 2nd and pushes players like Gholston to the top where they don't belong.

[3irty1]

There are very few ways to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges for a significant number of draft picks. Watching game tape cannot give you more than just a sense of how much the events on tape are because of the player and how much was a result of the matchup or level of competition.

If a group of players are from the same big time conference, then you probably get a better feel, because of common opponents and high level of competition. But if a player has only started a year, or missed a common opponent game or plays in a non-BCS conference, then you may have very little tape of that player going up against top college competition.

The combine gives you data on how much raw athleticism was a part of that player's overall package. It cannot tell you how they will perform on the field if there is numerous good and relevant tape on the guy. But it provides a baseline of comparison that is independent of competition, scheme or matchup and give you a list of players with similar playing backgrounds and physical attributes for comparison. That may give you an idea of the potential.

In short, relying too much on the Combine might get you Mike Mamula. But ignoring the Combine numbers might get you Abdul Hodge in the 3rd.

And putting too much weight on the combine lets players like Jerry Rice drop in the 1st or Greg Jennings to the 2nd and pushes players like Gholston to the top where they don't belong.

It also pushes up guys like Chris Johnson or even Clay Mathews and drops slews of others out of the first round where they don't belong.

[Smidgeon]

There are very few ways to compare apples to apples and oranges to oranges for a significant number of draft picks. Watching game tape cannot give you more than just a sense of how much the events on tape are because of the player and how much was a result of the matchup or level of competition.

If a group of players are from the same big time conference, then you probably get a better feel, because of common opponents and high level of competition. But if a player has only started a year, or missed a common opponent game or plays in a non-BCS conference, then you may have very little tape of that player going up against top college competition.

The combine gives you data on how much raw athleticism was a part of that player's overall package. It cannot tell you how they will perform on the field if there is numerous good and relevant tape on the guy. But it provides a baseline of comparison that is independent of competition, scheme or matchup and give you a list of players with similar playing backgrounds and physical attributes for comparison. That may give you an idea of the potential.

In short, relying too much on the Combine might get you Mike Mamula. But ignoring the Combine numbers might get you Abdul Hodge in the 3rd.

And putting too much weight on the combine lets players like Jerry Rice drop in the 1st or Greg Jennings to the 2nd and pushes players like Gholston to the top where they don't belong.

It also pushes up guys like Chris Johnson or even Clay Mathews and drops slews of others out of the first round where they don't belong.

We'll never know for certain, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if TT had Clay Matthews high on his list pre-Combine based on--oh, I don't know--scouting. I would think for the higher round picks that the Combine is mostly about reinforcing what scouts were already saying or trying to weed out red flags. The combine should be the garnish, not the main course.

[3irty1]

The combine is probably the most important event for any of these guys (save QBs, Kickers, Punters and such). The NFL draft is about potential and the combine tells us more about potential than anything else.

Disagree. Mostly because of what the source said to Peter King. If you're going into the combine without a clear idea (already) of who's better than whom, then I don't want you to be my team's GM.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/02/21/observations/index.html

Knowing whos better than whom is not the same as who's got more potential than whom. All of the mock drafts/big boards out there now take into account how people are expected to do at the combine. Meeting or exceeding expectations is the most important thing these individuals have to do once the season ends.

I agree that the combine is big for those players who will be drafted late. But I also believe the most important parts of the combine are the interviews and medical exams.

What? You think the combine is bigger for the second day guys than it is the first day guys? 6th and 7th rounders don't stand to lose millions. Yeah it might be more important from a GM or Mel Kiper standpoint where up until now you've only been able to do a 2 round mock draft at best. The combine is where the measurables are measured and that's pretty important when talking about prospects.

I'll quote the Florio line: "The only time a guy is going to use his 40 speed in a straight line is when something really good happens or really bad happens." A good GM has his board mostly set.

The reason I think the combine is more important for lower round picks is either because they came from a less competetive program and need the measurables to boost their stock or because they have to show they have the potential to do more than they did in school. The top prospects have already established their potential by performing in college.

The Combine is much more than a 40 time. Your 10 yard, bench press, jumps, cone tell just as much if not more depending on the position.

Top prospects also can have fall out of the first round based on a poor performance at the combine. Everett Brown, Dan Connor, and Dwayne Jarrett all come to mind.

[Smidgeon]

The combine is probably the most important event for any of these guys (save QBs, Kickers, Punters and such). The NFL draft is about potential and the combine tells us more about potential than anything else.

Disagree. Mostly because of what the source said to Peter King. If you're going into the combine without a clear idea (already) of who's better than whom, then I don't want you to be my team's GM.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/02/21/observations/index.html

Knowing whos better than whom is not the same as who's got more potential than whom. All of the mock drafts/big boards out there now take into account how people are expected to do at the combine. Meeting or exceeding expectations is the most important thing these individuals have to do once the season ends.

I agree that the combine is big for those players who will be drafted late. But I also believe the most important parts of the combine are the interviews and medical exams.

What? You think the combine is bigger for the second day guys than it is the first day guys? 6th and 7th rounders don't stand to lose millions. Yeah it might be more important from a GM or Mel Kiper standpoint where up until now you've only been able to do a 2 round mock draft at best. The combine is where the measurables are measured and that's pretty important when talking about prospects.

I'll quote the Florio line: "The only time a guy is going to use his 40 speed in a straight line is when something really good happens or really bad happens." A good GM has his board mostly set.

The reason I think the combine is more important for lower round picks is either because they came from a less competetive program and need the measurables to boost their stock or because they have to show they have the potential to do more than they did in school. The top prospects have already established their potential by performing in college.

The Combine is much more than a 40 time. Your 10 yard, bench press, jumps, cone tell just as much if not more depending on the position.

Top prospects also can have fall out of the first round based on a poor performance at the combine. Everett Brown, Dan Connor, and Dwayne Jarrett all come to mind.

And you think that scouts and GMs weren't aware of the limitations prior to the combine that dropped those pundits' "top picks" out of round 1? I think that as the offseason progresses and the combine and pro day and interviews progress, draft boards are being tweaked (and red flags can remove someone from a board entirely) but not overhauled. I think it'd be more accurate to say that it dropped those players from the pundits' round 1 mock drafts. My theory is that it's the armchair scouts' opinions and mock drafts that change the most and become closer to the professional scouts' opinions that already had the examples you mentioned downgraded from where Kiper was projecting.

Since none of us are professional scouts and it's all speculation anyway, both my theory and your theory fit the facts. But both viewpoints are unsubstantiated until you can study what personnel decision-makers are really thinking about prospects. The spreading of disinformation (see: Bush, Reggie vs Williams, Mario) means that we'll never know.

[Lurker64]

Well, I think the difference between professional scouts and draftniks is that at this point in the process, scouts don't have definite fixed opinions on guys and draftniks do. There's no point for a team to have a draft board filled out at this point, so they don't. However, there is a point for draftniks to have a draft board filled out, say, in October. So teams keep a very flexible outlook on players at this point and only note things that are more or less objectively true but vague from watching game tape (e.g. runs good routes, has good hands, good top speed, questionable acceleration) and the combine and pro day workouts simply serve to quantify these things. The most valuable parts of the combine by far are the interviews and the physical, but it certainly helpful to assign numbers to things you've already noticed from tape.

[Smidgeon]

Well, I think the difference between professional scouts and draftniks is that at this point in the process, scouts don't have definite fixed opinions on guys and draftniks do. There's no point for a team to have a draft board filled out at this point, so they don't. However, there is a point for draftniks to have a draft board filled out, say, in October. So teams keep a very flexible outlook on players at this point and only note things that are more or less objectively true but vague from watching game tape (e.g. runs good routes, has good hands, good top speed, questionable acceleration) and the combine and pro day workouts simply serve to quantify these things. The most valuable parts of the combine by far are the interviews and the physical, but it certainly helpful to assign numbers to things you've already noticed from tape.

This I agree with.

[3irty1]

I think everyone including NFL GMs and scouts have plenty of questions about these players (and so do you if you think the combine is powerful enough to get Gholston drafted 6th overall). The combine isn't held for draftniks. All the combine info is useful in judging the translation of players from college schemes and systems to NFL schemes and systems. Many of the things you want to know if these players can do they have never done before. Even just the environment created by the combine where every player is expected to show up in the best shape of their lives tells the story of their work ethics.

[swede]

The cone drill is big for identifying on the field quickness, and the vertical jumps and broad jumps are useful for determining leg strength. That stuff is obvious, I guess. When you're trying to set a draft board and looking at two similar players these numbers can help someone make a decision.

(Obviously, Raji's inability to turn a sub 5 40 didn't turn off TT. That's a long way to haul 300+ pounds.)

That said, ND has forgotten more about football then I'll ever know. If he thinks the combine is over-rated I'm guessing he has a pretty good reason why he thinks so.

If nothing else, I DVR the combines and go through them to learn the names and faces of the new guys to help make draft day more fun for me. Max Unger and Eric Wood were like my buddies by the time I had finished watching them go through their drills.

[packrulz]

The combine is probably the most important event for any of these guys (save QBs, Kickers, Punters and such). The NFL draft is about potential and the combine tells us more about potential than anything else.

Disagree. Mostly because of what the source said to Peter King. If you're going into the combine without a clear idea (already) of who's better than whom, then I don't want you to be my team's GM.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/02/21/observations/index.html

Knowing whos better than whom is not the same as who's got more potential than whom. All of the mock drafts/big boards out there now take into account how people are expected to do at the combine. Meeting or exceeding expectations is the most important thing these individuals have to do once the season ends.

I agree that the combine is big for those players who will be drafted late. But I also believe the most important parts of the combine are the interviews and medical exams.

What? You think the combine is bigger for the second day guys than it is the first day guys? 6th and 7th rounders don't stand to lose millions. Yeah it might be more important from a GM or Mel Kiper standpoint where up until now you've only been able to do a 2 round mock draft at best. The combine is where the measurables are measured and that's pretty important when talking about prospects.

I'll quote the Florio line: "The only time a guy is going to use his 40 speed in a straight line is when something really good happens or really bad happens." A good GM has his board mostly set.

The reason I think the combine is more important for lower round picks is either because they came from a less competetive program and need the measurables to boost their stock or because they have to show they have the potential to do more than they did in school. The top prospects have already established their potential by performing in college.

The Combine is much more than a 40 time. Your 10 yard, bench press, jumps, cone tell just as much if not more depending on the position.

Top prospects also can have fall out of the first round based on a poor performance at the combine. Everett Brown, Dan Connor, and Dwayne Jarrett all come to mind.

And you think that scouts and GMs weren't aware of the limitations prior to the combine that dropped those pundits' "top picks" out of round 1? I think that as the offseason progresses and the combine and pro day and interviews progress, draft boards are being tweaked (and red flags can remove someone from a board entirely) but not overhauled. I think it'd be more accurate to say that it dropped those players from the pundits' round 1 mock drafts. My theory is that it's the armchair scouts' opinions and mock drafts that change the most and become closer to the professional scouts' opinions that already had the examples you mentioned downgraded from where Kiper was projecting.

Since none of us are professional scouts and it's all speculation anyway, both my theory and your theory fit the facts. But both viewpoints are unsubstantiated until you can study what personnel decision-makers are really thinking about prospects. The spreading of disinformation (see: Bush, Reggie vs Williams, Mario) means that we'll never know.

A lot of college players hire personal trainers to help them test well at the combine, there's a lot of money at stake. If the combine is so overrated, how come all 32 teams spend all that time and millions of dollars to have it?

[Smidgeon]

The combine is probably the most important event for any of these guys (save QBs, Kickers, Punters and such). The NFL draft is about potential and the combine tells us more about potential than anything else.

Disagree. Mostly because of what the source said to Peter King. If you're going into the combine without a clear idea (already) of who's better than whom, then I don't want you to be my team's GM.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/02/21/observations/index.html

Knowing whos better than whom is not the same as who's got more potential than whom. All of the mock drafts/big boards out there now take into account how people are expected to do at the combine. Meeting or exceeding expectations is the most important thing these individuals have to do once the season ends.

I agree that the combine is big for those players who will be drafted late. But I also believe the most important parts of the combine are the interviews and medical exams.

What? You think the combine is bigger for the second day guys than it is the first day guys? 6th and 7th rounders don't stand to lose millions. Yeah it might be more important from a GM or Mel Kiper standpoint where up until now you've only been able to do a 2 round mock draft at best. The combine is where the measurables are measured and that's pretty important when talking about prospects.

I'll quote the Florio line: "The only time a guy is going to use his 40 speed in a straight line is when something really good happens or really bad happens." A good GM has his board mostly set.

The reason I think the combine is more important for lower round picks is either because they came from a less competetive program and need the measurables to boost their stock or because they have to show they have the potential to do more than they did in school. The top prospects have already established their potential by performing in college.

The Combine is much more than a 40 time. Your 10 yard, bench press, jumps, cone tell just as much if not more depending on the position.

Top prospects also can have fall out of the first round based on a poor performance at the combine. Everett Brown, Dan Connor, and Dwayne Jarrett all come to mind.

And you think that scouts and GMs weren't aware of the limitations prior to the combine that dropped those pundits' "top picks" out of round 1? I think that as the offseason progresses and the combine and pro day and interviews progress, draft boards are being tweaked (and red flags can remove someone from a board entirely) but not overhauled. I think it'd be more accurate to say that it dropped those players from the pundits' round 1 mock drafts. My theory is that it's the armchair scouts' opinions and mock drafts that change the most and become closer to the professional scouts' opinions that already had the examples you mentioned downgraded from where Kiper was projecting.

Since none of us are professional scouts and it's all speculation anyway, both my theory and your theory fit the facts. But both viewpoints are unsubstantiated until you can study what personnel decision-makers are really thinking about prospects. The spreading of disinformation (see: Bush, Reggie vs Williams, Mario) means that we'll never know.

A lot of college players hire personal trainers to help them test well at the combine, there's a lot of money at stake. If the combine is so overrated, how come all 32 teams spend all that time and millions of dollars to have it?

Because it sells, and the NFL is a business.

[pbmax]

Never saw this guy before, but I thought his twitter stuff looked interesting.

http://www.movethesticks.com/

http://twitter.com/movethesticks

He was recommended by Chris Mortensen, which would make him initially questionable. But he was an actual scout for the Ravens and Browns, meaning he might be right half the time.

[packrulz]

The combine is probably the most important event for any of these guys (save QBs, Kickers, Punters and such). The NFL draft is about potential and the combine tells us more about potential than anything else.

Disagree. Mostly because of what the source said to Peter King. If you're going into the combine without a clear idea (already) of who's better than whom, then I don't want you to be my team's GM.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/02/21/observations/index.html

Knowing whos better than whom is not the same as who's got more potential than whom. All of the mock drafts/big boards out there now take into account how people are expected to do at the combine. Meeting or exceeding expectations is the most important thing these individuals have to do once the season ends.

I agree that the combine is big for those players who will be drafted late. But I also believe the most important parts of the combine are the interviews and medical exams.

What? You think the combine is bigger for the second day guys than it is the first day guys? 6th and 7th rounders don't stand to lose millions. Yeah it might be more important from a GM or Mel Kiper standpoint where up until now you've only been able to do a 2 round mock draft at best. The combine is where the measurables are measured and that's pretty important when talking about prospects.

I'll quote the Florio line: "The only time a guy is going to use his 40 speed in a straight line is when something really good happens or really bad happens." A good GM has his board mostly set.

The reason I think the combine is more important for lower round picks is either because they came from a less competetive program and need the measurables to boost their stock or because they have to show they have the potential to do more than they did in school. The top prospects have already established their potential by performing in college.

The Combine is much more than a 40 time. Your 10 yard, bench press, jumps, cone tell just as much if not more depending on the position.

Top prospects also can have fall out of the first round based on a poor performance at the combine. Everett Brown, Dan Connor, and Dwayne Jarrett all come to mind.

And you think that scouts and GMs weren't aware of the limitations prior to the combine that dropped those pundits' "top picks" out of round 1? I think that as the offseason progresses and the combine and pro day and interviews progress, draft boards are being tweaked (and red flags can remove someone from a board entirely) but not overhauled. I think it'd be more accurate to say that it dropped those players from the pundits' round 1 mock drafts. My theory is that it's the armchair scouts' opinions and mock drafts that change the most and become closer to the professional scouts' opinions that already had the examples you mentioned downgraded from where Kiper was projecting.

Since none of us are professional scouts and it's all speculation anyway, both my theory and your theory fit the facts. But both viewpoints are unsubstantiated until you can study what personnel decision-makers are really thinking about prospects. The spreading of disinformation (see: Bush, Reggie vs Williams, Mario) means that we'll never know.

A lot of college players hire personal trainers to help them test well at the combine, there's a lot of money at stake. If the combine is so overrated, how come all 32 teams spend all that time and millions of dollars to have it?

Because it sells, and the NFL is a business.
How? TV ratings? No. T-shirts? No. Magazines? A few maybe.

[swede]

Mike Sherman was totally into the combines, always alert to the possibility of an elite left-footed punter, and he never missed a moment of action.

[Smidgeon]

[quote:eb0e880e14="3irty1"]The combine is probably the most important event for any of these guys (save QBs, Kickers, Punters and such). The NFL draft is about potential and the combine tells us more about potential than anything else.

Disagree. Mostly because of what the source said to Peter King. If you're going into the combine without a clear idea (already) of who's better than whom, then I don't want you to be my team's GM.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/peter_king/02/21/observations/index.html

Knowing whos better than whom is not the same as who's got more potential than whom. All of the mock drafts/big boards out there now take into account how people are expected to do at the combine. Meeting or exceeding expectations is the most important thing these individuals have to do once the season ends.

I agree that the combine is big for those players who will be drafted late. But I also believe the most important parts of the combine are the interviews and medical exams.

What? You think the combine is bigger for the second day guys than it is the first day guys? 6th and 7th rounders don't stand to lose millions. Yeah it might be more important from a GM or Mel Kiper standpoint where up until now you've only been able to do a 2 round mock draft at best. The combine is where the measurables are measured and that's pretty important when talking about prospects.

I'll quote the Florio line: "The only time a guy is going to use his 40 speed in a straight line is when something really good happens or really bad happens." A good GM has his board mostly set.

The reason I think the combine is more important for lower round picks is either because they came from a less competetive program and need the measurables to boost their stock or because they have to show they have the potential to do more than they did in school. The top prospects have already established their potential by performing in college.

The Combine is much more than a 40 time. Your 10 yard, bench press, jumps, cone tell just as much if not more depending on the position.

Top prospects also can have fall out of the first round based on a poor performance at the combine. Everett Brown, Dan Connor, and Dwayne Jarrett all come to mind.

And you think that scouts and GMs weren't aware of the limitations prior to the combine that dropped those pundits' "top picks" out of round 1? I think that as the offseason progresses and the combine and pro day and interviews progress, draft boards are being tweaked (and red flags can remove someone from a board entirely) but not overhauled. I think it'd be more accurate to say that it dropped those players from the pundits' round 1 mock drafts. My theory is that it's the armchair scouts' opinions and mock drafts that change the most and become closer to the professional scouts' opinions that already had the examples you mentioned downgraded from where Kiper was projecting.

Since none of us are professional scouts and it's all speculation anyway, both my theory and your theory fit the facts. But both viewpoints are unsubstantiated until you can study what personnel decision-makers are really thinking about prospects. The spreading of disinformation (see: Bush, Reggie vs Williams, Mario) means that we'll never know.

A lot of college players hire personal trainers to help them test well at the combine, there's a lot of money at stake. If the combine is so overrated, how come all 32 teams spend all that time and millions of dollars to have it?

Because it sells, and the NFL is a business.
How? TV ratings? No. T-shirts? No. Magazines? A few maybe.[/quote:eb0e880e14]

Brand awareness. Publicity. Fans care more about the combine each successive year. Kind of like the NFL Draft which has now become a prime time juggernaut. The more successfully you market a brand, the more fans feel invested. The more closely they follow events that don't sell tickets (like the draft and combine) the more connected they feel with their team. The more invested and connected they are, the more they identify as being a part of the team. The more they feel a part of a team, the more likely they're willing to spend money on tickets, jerseys, memorabilia, etc. It's an investment that is growing the sport into more than just a sport. Being an NFL fan is now a year-round hobby. How many other sports (in the US) have as rabid a fan base even in the offseason? That's what the NFL is selling.

[ThunderDan]

Brand awareness. Publicity. Fans care more about the combine each successive year. Kind of like the NFL Draft which has now become a prime time juggernaut. The more successfully you market a brand, the more fans feel invested. The more closely they follow events that don't sell tickets (like the draft and combine) the more connected they feel with their team. The more invested and connected they are, the more they identify as being a part of the team. The more they feel a part of a team, the more likely they're willing to spend money on tickets, jerseys, memorabilia, etc. It's an investment that is growing the sport into more than just a sport. Being an NFL fan is now a year-round hobby. How many other sports (in the US) have as rabid a fan base even in the offseason? That's what the NFL is selling.

I take a football nap until the week before the draft. Then I'll start to get interested again for about 2 week. Then a nap until training camp. OTAs and all are fun but you really don't get much information.

FA may attract my attention for about 3 days. After the big guys are signed, usually by 2 am, I don't really care.

Seeing is believing, and I get to see if I drive up for training camp practice or see the preseason games.

[Lurker64]

A lot of long-armed tackles this year.

Russel Okung 36"
Anthony Davis 36"
Bruce Campbell 36 1/4 "
Trent Williams 34 1/4"
Charles Brown 35 1/4"
Bryan Bulaga 33 1/4"

Compare some of last year's top guys:

Eben Britton - 32 3/4"
Eugene Monroe - 33 7/8"
Michael Oher - 33 1/2"
Jason Smith - 33 3/4"

Also, Charles Brown apparently put on 15 lbs to rocket up to 303. It'll be interesting to see if he maintains his athleticism.

[Iron Mike]

A lot of long-armed tackles this year.


Hillsdale College OT Jared Veldheer?

[Lurker64]

A lot of long-armed tackles this year.


Hillsdale College OT Jared Veldheer?

I think he measured 6081, 312, 33.

So, 6'8 1/4", 312 lbs, 33" arms.

[mission]

They're saying Campbell is going to be this year's Vernon Davis / Gholston as far as freak of nature, mega-workout monsters. The guy looks like a beast and probably won't drop to us if he runs well. Does that mean Bulaga will, or will him being a bit longer than Gallery was keep him right around his current projection? I know some scouts were thinking he had 32" or smaller arms...

Dang, I still don't know... so many guys I would be happy with and so many guys I will probably wish we had. Either way.

Intriguing draft fellas and fellerettes!

[packrulz]

By Pete Dougherty and Tom Pelissero • pdougher@greenbaypressgazette.com, tpelisse@greenbaypressgazette.com • February 25, 2010

A Hillsdale man

Could Jared Veldheer become the second player from Hillsdale College in Michigan to play for the Packers? Maybe.

The first was kicker Chester Marcol, who was the Packers’ kicker from 1972 to 1980.

Veldheer is an interesting left tackle prospect out of Division II Hillsdale. He measured in Thursday at 6-feet-8 ¼ inches and 312 pounds, and over his college career he developed into a surprisingly athletic player considering his size and the level of football he played. The Packers are likely to draft a left-tackle prospect this year as a possible successor to Chad Clifton, whom they want to re-sign for at least one more season, and Veldheer is a player they’re surely looking at closely. He could be drafted as high as late in the second round.

At the combine Thursday, Veldheer said the first thing teams ask him in interviews is why he went to Hillsdale. He tells them that in the summer between his junior and senior years in high school in Grand Rapids, Mich., he attended some college-prospect camps but didn’t perform well because his high school ran the Wing T offense.

“All we did was down block, no pass sliding or anything,” he said, “so going to those camps with all that passing footwork and concepts foreign, I just tried to rely on basketball footwork, and I guess it didn’t go the way those bigger schools wanted it to. Kind of fell down their radar.”

He went to Hillsdale because he had a brother, Aaron, who played basketball there and enjoyed it.

Veldheer also said that coming out of high school he weighed only 255 pounds, could max bench press only his weight and ran the 40-yard dash in 5.5 seconds. Now he’s 312 pounds, has a max bench of 425 pounds, and in his workout this weekend expects to break 5.0 seconds in the 40, which is a superb time for a left tackle.

“I was familiar with the school, it was a great fit,” he said. “Liked the school’s values and the coaching staff there. It was a great decision.”

[packrulz]

Tackles to dominate early first round; Bryant a top-5 pick
By Mike Mayock | NFL Network
Green Bay: Protecting Rodgers

The logical guy for Green Bay who would probably be there at No. 23 is Bruce Campbell from Maryland. He's a junior that I thought should have stayed in school. I thought he really would have helped himself and been a potential high-level pick. The thing about him is he's very good in pass protection. And obviously with the age in the Packers' offensive line and a tremendous young quarterback in Aaron Rodgers, you've got to protect him.

Campbell is a guy who makes an awful lot of sense right there. But he's not a great run blocker. He's not a drive blocker. He's not an aggressive kid. He's much better kick sliding and protecting the quarterback, and actually that's what Green Bay needs.

If they don't go tackle with their top pick, I really think Michigan defensive end Brandon Graham might be there. He'll fit some teams and not others. He's got a great motor and an ability to rush the quarterback, and he's very stout against the run. Teams are going to ding him a little bit for his size and his arm length, but he passes all the smell tests on tape. He played really well against Bulaga from Iowa. And he had a tremendous Senior Bowl week

[Maxie the Taxi]

Jared Veldheer is projected to be picked around the 5th round. Guys like him are actually the reason I don't see TT picking a big-name OT with #23. There are guys like him down the board.

The thing you have to base your judgement on is not overall value, but MARGINAL value. Are guys like Bulaga or Trent Williams really so much better than guys like Veldheer that it justifies their choice.

From TT's point of view, if there isn't much marginal difference between a 1st rnd and 5th rnd pick, why go with the 1st. It's much much safer to go with the 5th.

Additionally, the marginal difference between what's available in a pass rusher at OLB or DE is huge between guys like Kindle and Graham in the 1st rnd compared to their 5th round counterparts. It's kind of a no brainer.

By the way, when Veldheer says that he "liked the school’s values" he's talking about the schools Christian/Libertarian bent. It's the only college in the country (I think) that refuses federal money of any kind just out of pinciple. The guy has solid character and attitude. IMO, he's Packer material.

[packrulz]

Mike McCarthy Press Conference Transcript - Feb. 26
posted 02/26/2010

(How have you divided your time down here so far?)
Well, I got in yesterday. I had an opportunity to go to the interviews last night, and I actually spent some time this morning on special teams, with our special teams play. Had a couple meetings this afternoon, and my favorite part of the day has arrived.

(Do you at this point have a sense of what you're going to do on the offensive line next season?)
You mean how we're going to line them up? I think it's too early to obviously set a starting lineup because, as much as I've talked about it the last four years, I'd like to have one set and like to see them practice together every day and play together all year. Obviously with Chad Clifton and Mark Tauscher, with their situations, we're not ready to have a starting lineup yet.

(Have you expressed to Ted you want both of those guys back?)
Definitely. We'd definitely like to have Chad and Mark back. You can never have enough good football players. We've definitely reached the point with our football team that now we're going to have to make tough decisions, and the competition is where you'd like to see it especially from the coaching staff standpoint. That's part of building through the draft, and it's taken us a few years to get to this point. But we'd definitely like to see all of our free agents come back.

(When you first worked with Aaron Rodgers, did you look at his tape and see anything you felt you needed to adjust with his mechanics and release point, things like that?)
When I look at Aaron Rodgers' tape today, you still look for things to improve. I think quarterbacks, the techniques for quarterbacks is no different than any other position. You're always trying to improve, you're always trying to get better. The way we do it in our quarterback school, we address areas of fundamentals that we feel are a must, that we feel we need to address and try to fix immediately. Then there's things we're cautious of that you see the particular quarterback may have a tendency to do once in a while. In Aaron Rodgers' particular situation, he had a very high ball carriage, which I felt there was a stiffness to the way he carried the ball. It wasn't as natural, because he is a very good athlete, and it's something you didn't see in my opinion in his earlier days, how good of an athlete he was. I think it's something that we've adjusted and he's very natural with it. Every quarterback that I've ever coached, you're always looking to improve their mechanics.

(Are these spread quarterbacks that come out of college at a disadvantage as they enter the NFL because of their mechanics and they way they're taught out of the shotgun and the way their offensive line is protecting them?)
I think the spread quarterbacks in college are definitely maybe at an advantage, just because in my time in the NFL you're seeing more offenses being more wide open. They're throwing the ball more. The transition from college to pro is all those reps of building a time clock, the ability to get the football out of your hand, checking protections. I actually think the spread offense helps quarterback get ready for the NFL. Now, things you're asking them to do from a technique standpoint is obviously changed. It's almost the norm now because you see so much spread offense, not only in college but in high school, you're going back and teaching quarterbacks how to take a snap, where 15 years ago that was assumed. I think the spread offense helps quarterbacks get ready from a competition standpoint, getting ready to play. But you're always trying to improve your quarterbacks and any other position fundamentally.

(Can you break that down more as far as adjusting to taking the snap, having a drop, marrying that up with the routes, the technical part of it?)
To me it's all about the time clock. Every offense is a little different. I'm sure every quarterback coach and every coordinator may have a little different opinion of how long a three-step is and what the route combination on the other side of that drop is. They're such valuable reps that take time to develop. It's nice when you see a young quarterback that has a history in certain concepts that you're putting in your offense, because frankly those are the concepts that he's probably going to perform at a higher level of efficiency early in his career. Because at the end of the day, whether he's taking the ball from center or he's taking it from the shotgun, you have to build that time clock, and it takes reps. Every quarterback throws it a little differently, every quarterback gets the ball to his point of release a little quicker. There's just an adjustment from one individual to the other. Some receivers run routes different. There's just no replacement for the reps that it takes to get your time clock in order.

(What are you looking for from these guys at the Combine?)
I've always felt, outside of going to work a quarterback out loud, that the NFL Combine film was the best evaluation of their fundamentals, because the way they have the camera real close. You can see the size of their hand, not only the width, but the height of the hand, the tightness of the video of the flexibility in the elbow, the point of release, the draw. So I've always put a lot of stock in the fundamental breakdown of the Combine film, because a number of times you'll see the quarterback that's prepared for the Combine where his mechanics don't match what you see on film. All film is different. Some film is better than others. It's sometimes hard to get a real good fundamental evaluation on a quarterback on game film. But the opportunities that you do, you want to compare that to the NFL Combine film. I thought the workouts they have here are excellent for quarterbacks.

(As a quarterback guy, can you make a Tebow, and would that be the kind of project that as a coach you wouldn't mind getting him in your quarterback school?)
I don't know enough about Tim Tebow, but what I do know about him, I would definitely love to coach him. I think the guy's a winner, just the way he plays the game. I know a lot's being said about his mechanics. Just the way he approaches the game of football, I think he'll do everything he needs to do to improve. You look for football players, and his record in college I think speaks for itself. I'd love the opportunity to work with a Tim Tebow.

(What's a realistic timeline for him, given what they're trying to change in his mechanics, to get him comfortable?)
I couldn't give you a timeline. I'd be up here trying to act like I really know what I'm talking about, to give you a timeline. That's something I think will be answered once people have an opportunity to work with him.

(You lost Brohm off the practice squad. Would you like to get another young guy?)
In season, there's definitely benefits in having two. We're fortunate, we really like our two guys. I'd have five if I could. I just think the quarterback position is so important and you cannot ever have enough of those guys. We're just getting started with Pizzotti, and we'll definitely look at all these guys here. I'm excited to get started on the process like I do at this time of year. This is always really a good evaluation, how they throw and see them live, and go back and break down the fundamentals of the film afterwards. The draft board really will dictate that.

(Does it help to have Shawn Slocum and Joe Whitt Jr. down there helping with some of the workouts on the field?)
I think it helps a whole lot. You'll see a number of our personnel people also involved. Obviously Ted Thompson is very involved in the coordination of the drills of the combine, and has been for years. We have Alonzo Highsmith, Sammy Seale, they have groups that they are responsible for. We always encourage our coaches to be on the field for that. It's all part of that evaluation process. We definitely feel that it gives you an advantage.

(Last year you had some new coaches. Did you do anything during the combine process to adjust to those guys as far as who you picked and how they fit the scheme?)
Everybody knows our draft philosophy is to take the best player available, and when you do that you like to stand up here and say, 'He can play in any defense or offense or any type of special teams.' That hasn't changed. I don't ever look at the prospects on the field as in I am looking for this exact guy to fit into our system because I think if you do that, you need to take a step back and look at your system. I feel that our systems on offense and defense give us the opportunity to take advantage of football players' ability, and if they have a special ability, something that they are unique at, we should have that within our system to take advantage of that. So that's the way I have always viewed it from an offensive standpoint, and I feel very confident that we also have that in place in our defensive system.


(What are the areas you have to get better at to be a Super Bowl team?)
I have had a chance to get through all of the offensive cut-ups and actually I am going to finish up the special teams this week with Shawn Slocum and Chad Morton, and then I'll start with Dom when I get back. But just going through the special teams some today, penalties and the punting production, clearly those are two big emphases that we'll have as soon as our players get back. We led the league in penalties on special teams for the second year in a row. I think it was 42 percent of our penalties on special teams were a first-year player, so we've got to do a better job from a coaching staff standpoint of getting our younger players ready to play with better technique in special teams. That's something that the players are going to hear Day 1 when they get in there, and our performance in the punting game was not nearly good enough. Offensively, it's well-documented, we had an opportunity to go back through the sack reel again and that's the one glaring (area) on offense that we need to do a better job at. Then you look at defensively, and I'll go through that page by page with Dom, but the veteran quarterback. When we played the Brett Favres and the Kurt Warners and the Roethlisbergers in the spread-out type situation in those type of games, we didn't do very well, so that's something that we're taking a close look at. Sudden change is another area on defense that we need to do a better job of. On top of that, the positives clearly outweigh the negatives. Those are the negatives, those are highlighted things that we'll talk about and we'll have a clear-cut evaluation and point of emphasis for our players when they get back, but we have a lot to build off. We have a lot to build off on defense, especially with it being our first year. I was very pleased with the way the players bought into it throughout the offseason, the commitment they made. We struggled there a little bit in the beginning, but I thought we got going where we needed to be. Offensively, we can be better. We broke a number of records offensively in the history of the Packers, but we've got an opportunity to get better. Our quarterback gives us that chance, and special teams is the area where you are going to see the most improvement on our football team.

(How do you think the dynamics of the division would change if Favre does actually retire this year?)
I don't know how it will change the dynamics of the division. Minnesota won the division and they'll carry that target with them as we go into the season regardless of who their quarterback is. Really, our focus will be on self-improvement like it is every year in March, April, May, whether that is with our players coming back and spending the extra time with the coaches in the offseason program, whether it's through signing our free agents back and the draft process. We really stay focused on us, but as far as the division, we'll watch what goes on and we'll do our offseason study of our division opponents and we'll be ready to go.

(You haven't run the Wildcat at all. Is that a philosophical reticence or do you not have a guy or guys to run that?)
Right now I really don't feel that we have that type of player. I've had a number of our perimeter players outside of the quarterback throw the ball and I was not impressed, so we could put another running back back there just to run it. We look at all of those types of things. We'll take it if we think it's going to help us win. We have no problem looking at other people in the offseason and in-season when you see someone that is doing something that is giving them an advantage to win games. We obviously take a look at that. It just doesn't fit our offense right now.

(Do you think Favre will be back?)
I have no idea.

(You are entering Year 5 as head coach. Is this team taking shape as to what you and Ted sought out to do with it?)
Yeah, I definitely feel that the vision of the football team is coming into focus. Just A, look at what we are going through right now. Now we're trying to sign our own free agents back. There is a lot of depth on our boards. I can remember coming to the combine my first year and the depth charts in my office were probably half-full compared to what they are now. There are players now that we have been together two, three, four years, so that part of it is definitely. I think the way we are playing, our defensive versatility matches our offensive versatility, so I feel like that is definitely where it needs to be. Definitely the vision is what you are seeing, particularly this year.

(Are you confident that you can get enough big plays out of your running game?)
Yeah, I think our running game was good this year. We can get better. We can get better at stretching the defensive ends. That's something that came out of our offseason study. We can do a better job of breaking more second-level tackles. So those are the types of things that we'll continue to work on. I'm confident with the people we have. We're always trying to improve, whether it's through the draft or a perimeter or in-line standpoint. I think our run game has really evolved, and there will be some changes, whether you notice them or not, that we'll do this year schematically. Our quarterback gives us a lot of flexibility in our run game because of his ability to handle so much information at the line of scrimmage, but I like where we are running the football.

[packrulz]

Ted Thompson Press Conference Transcript - Feb. 26
posted 02/26/2010

(If there is no salary cap, there could be more than 200 players becoming restricted free agents rather than unrestricted. Is there potential for discontent, that a large number of those guys will be unhappy, increasing the possibility of missing mini-camps, OTAs and other things?)
I think that would be better addressed to those particular players in those circumstances. I think, you use the word discontent, I think there would be a certain amount of discontent on everybody's part with any sort of labor unrest or difficulties that we may or may not be going through.

(Do you know exactly what you want to do with contracts in 2011, 2012, or are you still figuring that out?)
We've been in ongoing conversations about what strategies the organization might take. We haven't really firmed all that up yet though.

(Are you surprised so many of the top quarterback prospects aren't working out?)
Quite frankly I've been running around watching heights, weights and measurements. I don't know the score, the tally of who is and who isn't working out. Some of the guys might have had some injuries coming into this thing. I don't know really what you've been referring to. I haven't been keeping score.

(Aaron Rodgers tweaked his release a little bit. In terms of Tebow, how difficult is it for a quarterback to do that? How much time does that take?)
I'm no quarterback expert, and certainly in the mechanisms of the thing. I will say this about young Tebow. There's been a lot of discussion and commenting about him and his release or his ability to play in the National Football League. Based on his history, I think that would be a little bit premature to start criticizing him and doubting his ability to play. He's been playing at a pretty high level for quite some time. Has to go down as one of the great college football players of all-time, so let's don't sell him short just yet.

(In terms of offseason priorities, where do you rank the secondary?)
I never rank priorities. I love them all. I think we're always going to try to get better. We're always going to try to keep pushing the throttle down so that we can go faster and do better. At the same time, I've always felt like this and I know some our local guys probably get tired of me saying it. I think the best and most dramatic improvements you can have is from within, and that's what our offseason program has always been focused on. Now, we also place a high value on the draft, because we feel that's the future of your core players, and free agency, our own as well as maybe guys from other teams. We'll do whatever we can to try to help our team, and that's what we try to do.

(You franchised Pickett, and among the franchise players, there's a lot of 3-4 nose tackles. Does that say something about that position, and did you anticipate kind of a large market for that position this offseason?)
I can't speak for other teams. In our case, it was simply a matter of, we feel like Ryan's a good player. We feel like he's a good teammate, a good leader of that group. I personally like him quite a bit. This gives us an opportunity to keep having some conversations and try to get something done. We'd like to do a multi-year deal with him, but there are differences where we are in the negotiations, and this was an avenue that we had to at least retain some right to be able to do that in the future.

(How high a priority is Aaron Kampman?)
With all of our free agents, we've been having conversations. There's nothing to report on any of those things, so as opposed to speaking to Aaron directly, I'll just speak in general, and this may answer a few other questions you might have. We don't have anything to report. Historically speaking and it certainly applies this year, our policy has always been to try to retain as many of our own players as we could.

(Guys train so specifically for the Combine now. Does that make it harder to evaluate what you see here?)
Players oftentimes they go away, like say they're going to school in Columbus, Ohio, they go to Arizona to train and do all that and do specific training for the Combine. I think that's OK. It shows a certain amount of competitiveness and wanting to get ready for it and do the tests, because we like to put the guys through the tests because it's a comparative thing. There's certain minimums that you look for that you feel like you have to be able to do it at least that well or maybe you can't play. At the end of the day, we tell these guys when they get here, 90 percent of their work in terms of where they're going to get drafted and what they're going to be as an NFL player has already been done. This last part, the testing and making sure you're the right kind of person for the locker room, make sure that you can run as fast as maybe we think you need to be able to run to play that position, that's that last little bit that they have to finish. This is the finishing part. In terms of, is it better for them to stay at their school and train or go somewhere else? That's for them, their families and their agents to decide.

(Going back to Tebow and some of the other quarterbacks who ran the spread offense, is that a detriment to their NFL chances?)
I think probably a little bit too much to be made of it. I think if you're a good player you can play. There are instances where guys will not have taken a direct snap in their college career, so you have to make sure that you can do that. You've got to be able to do that before you can play at all. I think if you're a good quarterback and you have the ability to see the field and anticipate things and have almost that sixth sense of when pressure is there and when it's not there, I think if you can play, you can play. But it also leaves you as you are making those decisions, there is unknown of by the way, he's never taken a snap from center.

(Do you think Favre will be back next season?)
That's an interesting question.

(Since you have been in that position, how tough is that for a team to wait his decision out?)
Really, I mean I'm sure there are people that would give you an opinion on that. I'm not the one to ask on that.

(In general terms, what do you think of the offensive tackles?)
All of the positions will be good classes.

(You have extended Aaron Rodgers and Greg Jennings, but not Nick Collins. What does he need to do to get an extension?)
We're working on it, and have been (for) some time.

(Are you optimistic?)
I'm always optimistic, but the cake is not done until it's done.

(How would you assess Collins' play?)
He's a good player. A good guy, good teammate.

(How did he translate into the new defense?)
You guys can see. He is a marvelous athlete. He's got range, he's got hands, he's got anticipation, he's a good tackler. He's a good player. He's one of the core guys that we want to have.


(Last year we asked if you would draft for the new scheme. Do you feel like you did or did you draft based on them being good players who could play in any system?)
The latter. No, I think those guys both fit our system pretty good. If you're asking me if Clay Matthews or B.J. Raji can play in another defense, absolutely they could and I think they would be good at it.

(What do you look for in a 3-4 outside linebacker?)
I know I sound repetitive, but I look for good players. There are probably ideal heights and lengths and stuff like that in terms of a body makeup that you look for, but it doesn't necessarily translate into the best 3-4 outside linebacker. James Harrison of Pittsburgh does not fit those height/length requirements, but he's a marvelous player. He was the Defensive Player of the Year two years ago. So you probably trend toward that. In a 3-4 in the scouting business, there is more projecting of pass rushers to those 3-4 outside linebacker positions. It's a very difficult thing to do because if a guy has never stood up and played before, just because he can run fast or do drills, it doesn't necessarily mean he can stand on his feet and play the game, but it does work out sometimes. As much as we can, we try to stick with guys that have proven that they can play the game. Clay Matthews last year is a perfect example. There were times where he put his hand down on the ground and rushed the passer, but a large majority of the time he was standing up and playing linebacker.

(What did you think of Aaron Kampman's transition to the 3-4?)
Oh, I think Aaron was doing very good. It's a shame he got hurt, but he was doing fine. He's physical, he's got the ability to get thick on people. Somebody told me that term the other day and I wanted to use it, so there it is. He can play the game. He sacks the quarterback, and that's unbelievably valuable in our league.

(Going back to the offensive tackles, if you want a 10-year starter, do you have to get them early in the draft?)
Chad Clifton is a perfect example. He was a second-round pick I think, and not an early second-round pick I don't believe and has started for 10 years. You don't have to obviously, the tackle position is a critical position, but I have found most critical positions are critical because you need some. So I don't know. Probably most of the great left tackles in the league were taken early, but probably most of the great running backs in the league were taken early too, or quarterbacks, but not necessarily, especially that quarterback.

[red]

mayock thinks that 4 tackles could go in the top 9, then he sees a run on the second tier guys. just like last year when 8 or 9 were taken in the first

thats not good at all for us

FYI: bruce campbell is impressive

[Fritz]

It's good if some snappy player at another position drops into the Packers' laps.

[swede]

I'll translate a little Ted talk for ya'll:



(Are you surprised so many of the top quarterback prospects aren't working out?)
Quite frankly I've been running around watching heights, weights and measurements. I don't know the score, the tally of who is and who isn't working out. Some of the guys might have had some injuries coming into this thing. I don't know really what you've been referring to. I haven't been keeping score.

Tedtranslation: Like I'd tell you.


(Aaron Rodgers tweaked his release a little bit. In terms of Tebow, how difficult is it for a quarterback to do that? How much time does that take?)
I'm no quarterback expert, and certainly in the mechanisms of the thing. I will say this about young Tebow. There's been a lot of discussion and commenting about him and his release or his ability to play in the National Football League. Based on his history, I think that would be a little bit premature to start criticizing him and doubting his ability to play. He's been playing at a pretty high level for quite some time. Has to go down as one of the great college football players of all-time, so let's don't sell him short just yet.

Tedtranslation: Thank you for the opportunity to let other teams think we might be interested in a linebacker trying to get drafted as a quarterback.


(In terms of offseason priorities, where do you rank the secondary?)
I never rank priorities. I love them all. I think we're always going to try to get better. We're always going to try to keep pushing the throttle down so that we can go faster and do better. At the same time, I've always felt like this and I know some our local guys probably get tired of me saying it. I think the best and most dramatic improvements you can have is from within, and that's what our offseason program has always been focused on. Now, we also place a high value on the draft, because we feel that's the future of your core players, and free agency, our own as well as maybe guys from other teams. We'll do whatever we can to try to help our team, and that's what we try to do.

Tedtranslation: Like I'd tell you.


(You franchised Pickett, and among the franchise players, there's a lot of 3-4 nose tackles. Does that say something about that position, and did you anticipate kind of a large market for that position this offseason?)
I can't speak for other teams. In our case, it was simply a matter of, we feel like Ryan's a good player. We feel like he's a good teammate, a good leader of that group. I personally like him quite a bit. This gives us an opportunity to keep having some conversations and try to get something done. We'd like to do a multi-year deal with him, but there are differences where we are in the negotiations, and this was an avenue that we had to at least retain some right to be able to do that in the future.

Tedtranslation: This guy is a huge anchor on our line and I really don't want him getting away, AND I don't mind kissing up a bit in public to help keep negotiations smooth. (note: Ted actually showed a rare burst of enthusiasm for the guy.)


(How high a priority is Aaron Kampman?)
With all of our free agents, we've been having conversations. There's nothing to report on any of those things, so as opposed to speaking to Aaron directly, I'll just speak in general, and this may answer a few other questions you might have. We don't have anything to report. Historically speaking and it certainly applies this year, our policy has always been to try to retain as many of our own players as we could.

Tedtranslation: Like I'd tell you. (note: Ted was not nearly as effusive in his praise as he was for Pickett. The tells were subtle, but they were there.)


(Guys train so specifically for the Combine now. Does that make it harder to evaluate what you see here?)
Players oftentimes they go away, like say they're going to school in Columbus, Ohio, they go to Arizona to train and do all that and do specific training for the Combine. I think that's OK. It shows a certain amount of competitiveness and wanting to get ready for it and do the tests, because we like to put the guys through the tests because it's a comparative thing. There's certain minimums that you look for that you feel like you have to be able to do it at least that well or maybe you can't play. At the end of the day, we tell these guys when they get here, 90 percent of their work in terms of where they're going to get drafted and what they're going to be as an NFL player has already been done. This last part, the testing and making sure you're the right kind of person for the locker room, make sure that you can run as fast as maybe we think you need to be able to run to play that position, that's that last little bit that they have to finish. This is the finishing part. In terms of, is it better for them to stay at their school and train or go somewhere else? That's for them, their families and their agents to decide.

Tedtranslation: Thanks for the question. I'd been meaning to get this off my chest and it doesn't hurt my team if you know how I feel.


(Do you think Favre will be back next season?)
That's an interesting question.

(Since you have been in that position, how tough is that for a team to wait his decision out?)
Really, I mean I'm sure there are people that would give you an opinion on that. I'm not the one to ask on that.

Tedtranslation: Now I'm pissed off. Move on. And you can expect some short answers from now on as punishment.


(In general terms, what do you think of the offensive tackles?)
All of the positions will be good classes.

(You have extended Aaron Rodgers and Greg Jennings, but not Nick Collins. What does he need to do to get an extension?)
We're working on it, and have been (for) some time.

(Are you optimistic?)
I'm always optimistic, but the cake is not done until it's done.

Tedtranslation: These are the short answers you get when you bring up Favre.


(How would you assess Collins' play?)
He's a good player. A good guy, good teammate.

(How did he translate into the new defense?)
You guys can see. He is a marvelous athlete. He's got range, he's got hands, he's got anticipation, he's a good tackler. He's a good player. He's one of the core guys that we want to have.

Tedtranslation: I like Nick Collins almost as much as I like Pickett. But I'm still giving short answers. What do I think about Favre? Sheesh!


(Last year we asked if you would draft for the new scheme. Do you feel like you did or did you draft based on them being good players who could play in any system?)
The latter. No, I think those guys both fit our system pretty good. If you're asking me if Clay Matthews or B.J. Raji can play in another defense, absolutely they could and I think they would be good at it.

(What do you look for in a 3-4 outside linebacker?)
I know I sound repetitive, but I look for good players. There are probably ideal heights and lengths and stuff like that in terms of a body makeup that you look for, but it doesn't necessarily translate into the best 3-4 outside linebacker. James Harrison of Pittsburgh does not fit those height/length requirements, but he's a marvelous player. He was the Defensive Player of the Year two years ago. So you probably trend toward that. In a 3-4 in the scouting business, there is more projecting of pass rushers to those 3-4 outside linebacker positions. It's a very difficult thing to do because if a guy has never stood up and played before, just because he can run fast or do drills, it doesn't necessarily mean he can stand on his feet and play the game, but it does work out sometimes. As much as we can, we try to stick with guys that have proven that they can play the game. Clay Matthews last year is a perfect example. There were times where he put his hand down on the ground and rushed the passer, but a large majority of the time he was standing up and playing linebacker.

Tedtranslation: Listen to me. I like these kids so much I'm getting giddy. I'd better reign it in now.


(What did you think of Aaron Kampman's transition to the 3-4?)
Oh, I think Aaron was doing very good. It's a shame he got hurt, but he was doing fine. He's physical, he's got the ability to get thick on people. Somebody told me that term the other day and I wanted to use it, so there it is. He can play the game. He sacks the quarterback, and that's unbelievably valuable in our league.

Tedtranslation: There. I think I sold everybody on my continued support for Aaron who is a really good guy but no longer essential to the success of our team. (note: no you didn't, Ted. You said he was valuable to the LEAGUE, not our TEAM.)


(Going back to the offensive tackles, if you want a 10-year starter, do you have to get them early in the draft?)
Chad Clifton is a perfect example. He was a second-round pick I think, and not an early second-round pick I don't believe and has started for 10 years. You don't have to obviously, the tackle position is a critical position, but I have found most critical positions are critical because you need some. So I don't know. Probably most of the great left tackles in the league were taken early, but probably most of the great running backs in the league were taken early too, or quarterbacks, but not necessarily, especially that quarterback.

Tedtranslation: Look for best defensive player available again with our first pick.

[Fritz]

When I look at the lengths of answers as you've given them, Swede, it seems clear that Thompson has a real passion for the evaluating talent part of the job.

And I'm glad for that.

[pbmax]

Bedard and the JSO Blog:


Hillsdale College offensive tackle Jared Veldheer (6-7.6, 315) said earlier in the week "there has been a lot of interest from the Packers."

[Zool]

Bedard and the JSO Blog:


Hillsdale College offensive tackle Jared Veldheer (6-7.6, 315) said earlier in the week "there has been a lot of interest from the Packers."

Well is that legit or a smoke screen?

[mission]

Bedard and the JSO Blog:


Hillsdale College offensive tackle Jared Veldheer (6-7.6, 315) said earlier in the week "there has been a lot of interest from the Packers."

Well is that legit or a smoke screen?

I don't know but I wouldn't want him in the 2nd... 3rd+ if possible ... or Indiana's Staffold. His tape has been graded very well.

Campbell is a beast but I hear his game tape leaves a lot to be desired. Just disappears at times.

[pbmax]

Bedard and the JSO Blog:


Hillsdale College offensive tackle Jared Veldheer (6-7.6, 315) said earlier in the week "there has been a lot of interest from the Packers."

Well is that legit or a smoke screen?
You're guess is as good as mine. Bedard has made the point (maybe it was McGinn?) that they have both interviewed guys they intended to take and ignored guys they eventually took.

My suspicion is that they had something specific they wanted to know more about. Some prospects simply might elude them given the time constraints and number of teams.

I think they did interview Rodgers (and Dorsey asked him what made him different from other mediocre Tedford QBs) even though he was not on the short list early.

[packrulz]

I think we fans get too fixated on certain players or positions before the draft, TT is much more flexible and will go after the best player available, at least in the first round. Like he said, Clifton wasn't drafted in the first round, so Veldheer might be on his radar. I guess we should watch what we wish for, remember John Michaels? Tony Mandarich?

[Lurker64]

There's something that I keep hearing experts saying about Veldheer that confuses me. He's got adequate length arms for an LT (33") and he's a towering 6'8 1/8", but "experts" keep saying that his arms might be too short for his height.

I understand that arm length is important because it determines how quickly you can get your hands on the guy you're trying to block, and how hard it is for who you're blocking to separate from you and get away, but why on earth would the ratio of height to arm length matter?

I mean, if you could have a 5'2 guy with 36" arms who weighs 310 and runs a 5.0 versus a 6'11" guy with 46" arms who weighs 340 lbs and runs a 5.0, would the first guy be a better prospect by virtue of his greater arm length/height ratio?

[red]

i'm with you lurker

i don't get it either

[Joemailman]

I'm guessing they feel a tall Tackle with relatively short arms will have a tougher time getting the proper hand position with pass rushers who try to go low to try to get around the Tackle. I have read however that Veldheer is able to bend his body unusually well for such a tall player.

[digitaldean]

I agree with those that believe most of your board should be set before the combines.

Those who put too much stock in the combine forget 2 names of combine greats who were NFL busts, Vernon Gholston and Mike Mamula.

[3irty1]

There are two sides to this when evaluating an OT prospect. You want your OT to have an use good natural length however you also don't want them to play too high. Being tall is an advantage as long as it means you are long. If you are 6'8" but your arms are 33" long then you'll play like a top heavy 6'3".

[3irty1]

I agree with those that believe most of your board should be set before the combines.

Those who put too much stock in the combine forget 2 names of combine greats who were NFL busts, Vernon Gholston and Mike Mamula.

Gholston may be a bust but this stuff can't be blamed on the combine. He was crazy productive in school and was the only pass rusher all year to get the best of Jake Long. If anything the workout numbers just verified that this guy was a great prospect. Who knows why he busted but it wasn't because he was chosen drafted solely on his workouts.

[packrulz]

Notebook: Green Bay Packers see good showing from LT Jared Veldheer of Hillsdale College

BY PETE DOUGHERTY • pdougher@greenbaypressgazette.com • February 27, 2010

INDIANAPOLIS – Though Maryland’s Bruce Campbell received most of the initial publicity among left tackles for his 4.85-second 40-yard dash, a less heralded prospect might have performed best on physical testing at that position at the NFL scouting combine on Saturday.

The Green Bay Packers are looking for a left tackle in the draft and surely took note of the performance by Jared Veldheer, a Division II player from Hillsdale College who finished among the top 10 offensive linemen in all five tests for which the NFL posted results Saturday.

Veldheer, who measured in at the combine at 6-feet-8 1/8 and 312 pounds, came into the weekend as probably a late second-round to third-round prospect but could get teams to take an even harder look at him after his performance Saturday.

He ran the 40 in 5.09 seconds, which was fourth among the linemen. He also tied for first in the three-cone drill (7.40 seconds) and 20-yard shuttle (4.51 seconds); tied for third in the vertical jump (33 inches), was fifth in the broad jump (9-feet, 1-inch) and ninth in the bench press (32 reps of 225 pounds).

One of the biggest concerns coming into the combine was the length of Veldheer’s arms, which measured at 33 inches, which is short for a left tackle but at least passed the 32-inch barrier, which many scouts consider too short for the position.

Campbell, in the meantime, fulfilled the predictions he’d do well on the physical testing. He’s a raw player and scouts are split on whether he is or ever will be a good left tackle, but his workout displayed impressive athletic talent and could help solidify for at least some teams that he’s worth a pick in the top 20 overall.

Campbell ran the fastest 40-yard dash of the offensive linemen at 4.85 seconds, which is faster than some tight ends and is excellent for his position. He also did 34 reps on the bench press, which tied for fifth-best, and had the fifth-best vertical jump at 32 inches.
Another linebacker from USC?

Could the Packers select an outside linebacker from USC in the first round in back-to-back drafts? It’s not out of the question.

Last year, they picked USC’s Clay Matthews at No. 26 pick overall, and he finished third in the voting for NFC defensive rookie of the year as the Packers’ starting right outside linebacker the final 12 games.

USC has another good prospect at outside linebacker this year in Everson Griffen, who is entering the draft after his junior season and in fact as a sophomore was replaced by Matthews in USC’s starting lineup in the fourth game of the 2008 season.

Griffen figures to be drafted anywhere from the late first round through the second round as an outside linebacker in a 3-4 defense or defensive end in a 4-3 scheme. The Packers pick at No. 23 in the first round.

Griffen said he was terribly disappointed when he lost his starting job to Matthews early in 2008 but said the decision by the USC coaching staff was fair.

“Of course, oh yeah,” he said, “the guy (Matthews) is a good football player. If it happens, it happens – you just can’t let that happen.”

Griffen said he’s had interviews here with Buffalo and Cleveland -- which both project him as an outside linebacker in their 3-4 defenses – but not the Packers.

He measured out at 6-foot-3 and 273 pounds and says he expects to run the 40 in the 4.5s on Monday.

“One-hundred percent realistic,” he said of hitting that time. “You’ll see when the time comes.”
Saturday, February 27, 2010
Wisconsin's Schofield aiming for speedy recovery
INDIANAPOLIS -- It's a long shot O'Brien Schofield will be recovered enough to make an impact in the NFL in 2010, but the injured Wisconsin product spoke today as though he expects to play as a rookie.

Schofield tore his left ACL and meniscus during practice at the Senior Bowl on Jan. 25, had surgery four days later with Dr. James Andrews and said he was given a six-month recovery timeline -- the absolute minimum, and well below the nine- to 11-month timeline espoused by many teams, including the Packers.

"I feel in four months I’ll be able to start doing some things," said Schofield, who played end for the Badgers but could be a 3-4 oustide linebacker in the NFL.

"I met with Dr. Andrews (Friday), and I’m pretty far ahead of schedule — I’m only a month out and I’m doing a lot, compared to only being a month out. So, my goal is just to be able to, if I’m in a minicamp, to be able to do some walkthroughs and if I can jog through some things, be able to do that. But when (training) camp comes along, my mind-set is to be able to be full-go, but I’m also going to be cautious and do whatever my knee allows me to do."

Though he acknowledged the injury will impact his draft stock and won't work out here, Schofield is interviewing with teams, hoping it will help him to meet people and be seen walking around.

"Honestly, I see myself being drafted," he said. "I think I did a tremendous job this year. I put stats up. I have great film. I showed what I can do by playing linebacker in just a week. Great character, never been in trouble. I feel like I have a lot of things in my favor."

Asked if he could see himself staying in Wisconsin with the Green Bay Packers, Schofield said, "I could see myself with whoever wants to play me, whoever gives me a shot. But a 3-4 scheme, I think that would maximize what I can do, both pass rush and dropping into coverage. That’d be a pretty good scheme for me as a player."

-- Tom Pelissero, tpelisse@greenbaypressgazette.com
http://twitter.com/tompelissero

[Fritz]

I've often thought that players are physically just getting bigger and bigger and faster and faster. Schofield - a 270 lb guy? - says he thinks he can run a 4.5 40? And Gil Brandt says the players are better physically than ever, ever before on the offensive line?

A mediocre NFL team from 2009 would likely crush the '66 Packers. How could the guys of that time - offensive linemen who probably went about 250 or so - stop guys like Johnny Jolly, who's not even seen as an elite player? How coud Carroll Dale get off the line against Al Harris? How would Herb Adderly outmuscle or keep up with Donald Driver?

The players today are freakazoids.

[Joemailman]

I remember one of the 1960's Packers (don't remember who) saying pretty much the same thing. The players these days are just so much faster and stronger. I'll bet a 300+ pound guy like Cullen Jenkins runs faster than Willie Davis did. Doesn't take anything away from the 1960's guys, but it's a different game, especially in the trenches. I suspect a guy like Adderley could play against today's players, but Fuzzy Thurston wouldn't have a chance.

[Brandon494]

Anyone watching the NFL combine right now? These WRs aren't looking good at all. Still waiting to see the RB group come up next.

[Lurker64]

Okay, here's something that confuses me. At the Senior Bowl, Michigan DE Brandon Graham measures an arm length of just over 30". At the combine, he measured 32 1/4"... I understand how a guy can work on his broad jump, his bench, or his 40 yard dash to get ready for the combine... but what do you do to make your arms longer?

[red]

Okay, here's something that confuses me. At the Senior Bowl, Michigan DE Brandon Graham measures an arm length of just over 30". At the combine, he measured 32 1/4"... I understand how a guy can work on his broad jump, his bench, or his 40 yard dash to get ready for the combine... but what do you do to make your arms longer?

didn't you learn anything from being a kid?

there's 2 things you can do to increase arm length. one way is to attach weights or large rocks to the ends of your arms and let your arms hang by your sides for a few days

or

you can grab on to the bar in a closet and hang there for a bit

more modern and radical methods are cutting the bone in you fore arm and adding a 1 inch plug, then gluing it all back together with gorilla glue, making sure to secure the parts with duct tape so nothing is able to move while the glue sets

as far as i know those are the only ways to gain 2+ inches in a couple weeks

or maybe someone screwed up a measurement somewhere, but that seems like a stretch

[pbmax]

Man, there is some stuff on the web that should just go straight to the garbage can. Like Bob McGinn's review of possible players of interest to Packers. I could have written that from Lurker's posts. :lol:

[red]

Man, there is some stuff on the web that should just go straight to the garbage can. Like Bob McGinn's review of possible players of interest to Packers. I could have written that from Lurker's posts. :lol:

pete dougherty's article is even worse

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100227/PKR01/100227072/1058/Who-s-who-where-Packers-need-the-help?GID=IjLlFXBhtk/pXySptW+f8T2RQoRXwwFP5qWjIBb9a1E%3D

[red]

wow

dexter mccluster, all 172 pounds of him put up 225 20 times

1 less then 323 pound ot anthony davis

[pbmax]

Man, there is some stuff on the web that should just go straight to the garbage can. Like Bob McGinn's review of possible players of interest to Packers. I could have written that from Lurker's posts. :lol:

pete dougherty's article is even worse

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100227/PKR01/100227072/1058/Who-s-who-where-Packers-need-the-help?GID=IjLlFXBhtk/pXySptW+f8T2RQoRXwwFP5qWjIBb9a1E%3D

Yeah, they all probably belong in The Garbage Can.

[Lurker64]

Man, there is some stuff on the web that should just go straight to the garbage can. Like Bob McGinn's review of possible players of interest to Packers. I could have written that from Lurker's posts. :lol:

pete dougherty's article is even worse

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100227/PKR01/100227072/1058/Who-s-who-where-Packers-need-the-help?GID=IjLlFXBhtk/pXySptW+f8T2RQoRXwwFP5qWjIBb9a1E%3D

Having Jason Pierre-Paul as a OLB is just weird. I mean, sure he could probably do it while he's still young and healthy since he's a hell of an athlete, but it would be a terrible mismanagement of resources. JPP is a thousand times more valuable to a team looking for a 4-3 DE, than a team looking for a 3-4 OLB. You have to pay a premium for your 270 lb very explosive, very strong guys as there just aren't enough of them. It's the same reason I thought the Robert Ayers pick by the Broncos last year was just weird. When you take a guy with prototypical RDE measurables who has never, ever played in space and ask him to play OLB, it just seems like a waste. If the Broncos really wanted a pass rusher at #18 last year... you probably could have traded back a bit if Ayers is really the top pick on your board last year. Since if he's the top pass rusher on your board at this point and you're a 3-4 team, something strange has happened with your personnel department and there's almost certainly a 4-3 team willing to give you something for him.

It's not a given that JPP will actually get past the Raiders this year, as Al Davis is spoiled for choice: he can have Bruce Campbell, Taylor Mays, or Jason Pierre-Paul!

[red]

Man, there is some stuff on the web that should just go straight to the garbage can. Like Bob McGinn's review of possible players of interest to Packers. I could have written that from Lurker's posts. :lol:

pete dougherty's article is even worse

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100227/PKR01/100227072/1058/Who-s-who-where-Packers-need-the-help?GID=IjLlFXBhtk/pXySptW+f8T2RQoRXwwFP5qWjIBb9a1E%3D

Having Jason Pierre-Paul as a OLB is just weird. I mean, sure he could probably do it while he's still young and healthy since he's a hell of an athlete, but it would be a terrible mismanagement of resources. JPP is a thousand times more valuable to a team looking for a 4-3 DE, than a team looking for a 3-4 OLB. You have to pay a premium for your 270 lb very explosive, very strong guys as there just aren't enough of them. It's the same reason I thought the Robert Ayers pick by the Broncos last year was just weird. When you take a guy with prototypical RDE measurables who has never, ever played in space and ask him to play OLB, it just seems like a waste. If the Broncos really wanted a pass rusher at #18 last year... you probably could have traded back a bit if Ayers is really the top pick on your board last year. Since if he's the top pass rusher on your board at this point and you're a 3-4 team, something strange has happened with your personnel department and there's almost certainly a 4-3 team willing to give you something for him.

It's not a given that JPP will actually get past the Raiders this year, as Al Davis is spoiled for choice: he can have Bruce Campbell, Taylor Mays, or Jason Pierre-Paul!

jpp is too good of a player for al to take

IMO he'll take campbell or mays. they both have what al looks for in a first round draft pick. great looking freakish athletes that suck at actually playing the game

[red]

CJ spiller getting ready for takeoff

[Brandon494]

CJ spiller getting ready for takeoff

He'll run a sub 4.3

[red]

gerhart just made himself a lot of money

4.53 alot better then anyone was expecting out of a white guy

[Brandon494]

gerhart just made himself a lot of money

4.53 alot better then anyone was expecting out of a white guy

Has nothing to do with race, a lot better anyone was expecting out of a 240 pound back. I wouldn't mind taking him in the 2nd round, he reminds me a lot of Mike Alstott.

[red]

good times by some of the running backs

jahvid best ran a 4.39

ryan mathews rans a 4.41

[red]

4.28 for spiller on his first try

[Brandon494]

Called it!

C.J. runs a 4.28 unofficial time.

[Bretsky]

Spiller runs 4.28 round one; dude is blazing

McCluster weighs 170 but put up 225lbs twenty times; he slipped on his first run and only put up a 4.55%. Love to see him in Green n Gold with our round three pick

[Brandon494]

Spiller runs 4.28 round one; dude is blazing

McCluster weighs 170 but put up 225lbs twenty times; he slipped on his first run and only put up a 4.55%. Love to see him in Green n Gold with our round three pick

I would love to get him with our 3rd round pick but I don't see him making it out of the 2nd round. That guy has Deshawn Jackson play-making ability.

[red]

4.27 for spiller's second run.

.03 behind chris johnson

[mission]

4.27 for spiller's second run.

.03 behind chris johnson

Him and Jacoby Ford doing exactly what I've been saying ... 8-) :P

[mission]

Spiller runs 4.28 round one; dude is blazing

McCluster weighs 170 but put up 225lbs twenty times; he slipped on his first run and only put up a 4.55%. Love to see him in Green n Gold with our round three pick

If TT is actually interested in Dex then we caught a huge break with the 40 slip ... we don't need him wowing anyone right now. :)

I knew he was a tough cat but 20 reps for that size is a ton... Im a clean 172 and could probably only do one or two reps max (if that lol).

[packrulz]

Combine provides proving ground for RB class filled with questions
Steve Wyche By Steve Wyche | NFL.com
Senior Writer
Danny Klimetz / Associated Press
The open-field ability of Mississippi's Dexter McCluster makes him an enticing prospect at the pro level.


INDIANAPOLIS -- Stanford’s Toby Gerhart was one of the most productive running backs in college football last season (1,871 yards, 27 touchdowns) and was the Heisman Trophy runner-up; but he’s rarely mentioned as an elite pro prospect. Could he be another second- to mid-round steal, like a Shonn Greene or Jamaal Charles?

That could depend on his 40-yard-dash time at the NFL Scouting Combine on Sunday. A sub-4.6 time and the powerful Gerhart, who bypassed his senior season, could pique the interest of the multitude of teams that need running backs and increase his draft stock. Anything slower and he could confirm suspicions and be viewed as a late-round, low-risk gamble.

Clemson’s C.J. Spiller, a breakaway threat in the mold of Tennessee’s Chris Johnson, is the best running back in the draft. Fresno State’s Ryan Matthews, a prototypical tailback with good size, speed and pass-protection skills, could be the next running back off the board.

With that in mind, let’s take a look at some prospects who enter the combine with question marks but also enough potential to make them worth the risk:
LeGarrette Blount (Oregon, 6-0, 241)

Blount is a gamble. No sugar coating it. What was worse than him sneaking a punch to the face of a helmetless Boise State player early last season was the escalation of his temper in the following moments. That Sprewellian moment will scare teams off, as will other off-field concerns. He also missed most of the season because of discipline handed down from the incident, so there isn’t much fresh tape of him. He is still an NFL talent with a huge body and quick feet. If he can redeem his character in any way, he could be a sleeper pickup for a team in need of an old-school power back.
Dexter McCluster (Mississippi, 5-9, 172)

The diminutive speedster is an open-field threat who can play tough when he needs to. McCluster can be used in a variety of ways, including as a returner, which makes him valuable. A blistering 40 at the combine will generate enough attention to possibly make him an early-round sleeper. The NFL game is played in space and McCluster in the open field is an advantage a lot of teams would love.
Youth movement at RB
With teams looking for younger, more affordable and more durable RBs, aging veterans are being released to make room for the next crop of fresh legs, writes Steve Wyche. More ...
Toby Gerhart (Stanford, 6-0, 231)

Gerhart can run, jump and compete with any of his counterparts. There are teams looking for between-the-tackles running backs and Gerhart, who’s constantly outworked people to get where he is, could be an answer.
Jonathan Dwyer (Georgia Tech, 5-11, 229)

Another big back who could help himself by running a good 40 time and showing solid change of direction in the variety of drills. Some teams don’t know what to make of the highly productive player because he gained a ton of yards in a Wing-T, option system. Dwyer has played in a pro set before from a two-point stance but his heaviest production was as an option fullback. His powerful style seems like a solid fit for San Diego or (surprise) the Vikings if they lose Chester Taylor in free agency. Backing up a physical Adrian Peterson with the physical Dwyer could be scary.
Jahvid Best (California, 5-10, 199)

You can’t coach speed and Best can flat out giddy-up. Injuries, especially a concussion that kept him out of action for a few games last season, are red flags that could scare some teams off. Best has Felix Jones-type qualities and if he’s used that way and stays healthy, he could be equally as explosive.

[Maxie the Taxi]

Combine provides proving ground for RB class filled with questions
Steve Wyche By Steve Wyche | NFL.com
Senior Writer
Danny Klimetz / Associated Press
The open-field ability of Mississippi's Dexter McCluster makes him an enticing prospect at the pro level.


INDIANAPOLIS -- Stanford’s Toby Gerhart was one of the most productive running backs in college football last season (1,871 yards, 27 touchdowns) and was the Heisman Trophy runner-up; but he’s rarely mentioned as an elite pro prospect. Could he be another second- to mid-round steal, like a Shonn Greene or Jamaal Charles?

That could depend on his 40-yard-dash time at the NFL Scouting Combine on Sunday. A sub-4.6 time and the powerful Gerhart, who bypassed his senior season, could pique the interest of the multitude of teams that need running backs and increase his draft stock. Anything slower and he could confirm suspicions and be viewed as a late-round, low-risk gamble.

Clemson’s C.J. Spiller, a breakaway threat in the mold of Tennessee’s Chris Johnson, is the best running back in the draft. Fresno State’s Ryan Matthews, a prototypical tailback with good size, speed and pass-protection skills, could be the next running back off the board.

With that in mind, let’s take a look at some prospects who enter the combine with question marks but also enough potential to make them worth the risk:
LeGarrette Blount (Oregon, 6-0, 241)

Blount is a gamble. No sugar coating it. What was worse than him sneaking a punch to the face of a helmetless Boise State player early last season was the escalation of his temper in the following moments. That Sprewellian moment will scare teams off, as will other off-field concerns. He also missed most of the season because of discipline handed down from the incident, so there isn’t much fresh tape of him. He is still an NFL talent with a huge body and quick feet. If he can redeem his character in any way, he could be a sleeper pickup for a team in need of an old-school power back.
Dexter McCluster (Mississippi, 5-9, 172)

The diminutive speedster is an open-field threat who can play tough when he needs to. McCluster can be used in a variety of ways, including as a returner, which makes him valuable. A blistering 40 at the combine will generate enough attention to possibly make him an early-round sleeper. The NFL game is played in space and McCluster in the open field is an advantage a lot of teams would love.
Youth movement at RB
With teams looking for younger, more affordable and more durable RBs, aging veterans are being released to make room for the next crop of fresh legs, writes Steve Wyche. More ...
Toby Gerhart (Stanford, 6-0, 231)

Gerhart can run, jump and compete with any of his counterparts. There are teams looking for between-the-tackles running backs and Gerhart, who’s constantly outworked people to get where he is, could be an answer.
Jonathan Dwyer (Georgia Tech, 5-11, 229)

Another big back who could help himself by running a good 40 time and showing solid change of direction in the variety of drills. Some teams don’t know what to make of the highly productive player because he gained a ton of yards in a Wing-T, option system. Dwyer has played in a pro set before from a two-point stance but his heaviest production was as an option fullback. His powerful style seems like a solid fit for San Diego or (surprise) the Vikings if they lose Chester Taylor in free agency. Backing up a physical Adrian Peterson with the physical Dwyer could be scary.
Jahvid Best (California, 5-10, 199)

You can’t coach speed and Best can flat out giddy-up. Injuries, especially a concussion that kept him out of action for a few games last season, are red flags that could scare some teams off. Best has Felix Jones-type qualities and if he’s used that way and stays healthy, he could be equally as explosive.

Toby Gerhart is a clone of Jim Taylor. Watch his film and see if I'm wrong.

In the old days, he'd be a first round pick because in the old days you had a nifty, shifty halfback and a bruising full back. The two complemented each other. Nowadays, if you're not the nifty, shifty back, and you're not a 250 lb. blocking machine you have no place.

I'd love to see the Packers take a chance on Gerhart regardless of his 40 time. The guy is a player and a throwback.

[pbmax]

Spiller runs 4.28 round one; dude is blazing

McCluster weighs 170 but put up 225lbs twenty times; he slipped on his first run and only put up a 4.55%. Love to see him in Green n Gold with our round three pick

I would love to get him with our 3rd round pick but I don't see him making it out of the 2nd round. That guy has Deshawn Jackson play-making ability.
The scout guy at move the sticks said no one he talked to with a watch had him below 4.57 on his second, "clean" run. Presumably the one without the slip.

The official numbers will be out tomorrow on nfl.com though, I think. I can't figure out which way is up at this point.

[Joemailman]

Toby Gerhart is a clone of Jim Taylor. Watch his film and see if I'm wrong.


Um... Max. You probably won't get much of an argument since most people on this site probably weren't alive when Jim Taylor played for the Packers. :D

[Patler]

Toby Gerhart is a clone of Jim Taylor. Watch his film and see if I'm wrong.


Um... Max. You probably won't get much of an argument since most people on this site probably weren't alive when Jim Taylor played for the Packers. :D

....and that is a shame. Taylor was very interesting to watch. He followed the path of shortest distance to where he wanted to go. "Least resistance" was an unknown term in his running style.

Good comparison, Maxie.

[pbmax]

Toby Gerhart is a clone of Jim Taylor. Watch his film and see if I'm wrong.


Um... Max. You probably won't get much of an argument since most people on this site probably weren't alive when Jim Taylor played for the Packers. :D
Please get off his lawn Joe. :lol:

[Joemailman]

Actually, I am old enough to remember Jim Taylor. Now if you'll excuse me, it's time to watch re-runs of the Lawrence Welk Show.

[3irty1]

Man, there is some stuff on the web that should just go straight to the garbage can. Like Bob McGinn's review of possible players of interest to Packers. I could have written that from Lurker's posts. :lol:

pete dougherty's article is even worse

http://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100227/PKR01/100227072/1058/Who-s-who-where-Packers-need-the-help?GID=IjLlFXBhtk/pXySptW+f8T2RQoRXwwFP5qWjIBb9a1E%3D

Having Jason Pierre-Paul as a OLB is just weird. I mean, sure he could probably do it while he's still young and healthy since he's a hell of an athlete, but it would be a terrible mismanagement of resources. JPP is a thousand times more valuable to a team looking for a 4-3 DE, than a team looking for a 3-4 OLB. You have to pay a premium for your 270 lb very explosive, very strong guys as there just aren't enough of them. It's the same reason I thought the Robert Ayers pick by the Broncos last year was just weird. When you take a guy with prototypical RDE measurables who has never, ever played in space and ask him to play OLB, it just seems like a waste. If the Broncos really wanted a pass rusher at #18 last year... you probably could have traded back a bit if Ayers is really the top pick on your board last year. Since if he's the top pass rusher on your board at this point and you're a 3-4 team, something strange has happened with your personnel department and there's almost certainly a 4-3 team willing to give you something for him.

It's not a given that JPP will actually get past the Raiders this year, as Al Davis is spoiled for choice: he can have Bruce Campbell, Taylor Mays, or Jason Pierre-Paul!

A thousand times more valuable how? The positions are different be they're not THAT different. Many players have made the transition.

[Lurker64]

A thousand times more valuable how? The positions are different be they're not THAT different. Many players have made the transition.

The pool of guys who can play 3-4 OLB at an elite level in the NFL is significantly larger than the pool of guys who can play 4-3 DE at an elite level in the NFL. The latter is as rare as hen's teeth, and those guys are incredibly valuable as a result (Gaines Adams was the fourth overall pick, for example).

If you draft a guy who could be elite at either position to play 3-4 OLB, you're basically wasting resources, since that player (and hence that pick) since presumably that pick could be marketed to a 4-3 team in need of a player like that (read: pretty much all of them).

Plus, certainly most 4-3 RDEs could play 3-4 OLB adequately, it's not necessarily clear that in a situation where you have many choices, the best choice to play 3-4 OLB is a guy who's also a clear cut 4-3 RDE. For example, would anybody disagree that Clay Matthews would have helped the Broncos more than Robert Ayers?

[3irty1]

A thousand times more valuable how? The positions are different be they're not THAT different. Many players have made the transition.

The pool of guys who can play 3-4 OLB at an elite level in the NFL is significantly larger than the pool of guys who can play 4-3 DE at an elite level in the NFL. The latter is as rare as hen's teeth, and those guys are incredibly valuable as a result (Gaines Adams was the fourth overall pick, for example).

If you draft a guy who could be elite at either position to play 3-4 OLB, you're basically wasting resources, since that player (and hence that pick) since presumably that pick could be marketed to a 4-3 team in need of a player like that (read: pretty much all of them).

Plus, certainly most 4-3 RDEs could play 3-4 OLB adequately, it's not necessarily clear that in a situation where you have many choices, the best choice to play 3-4 OLB is a guy who's also a clear cut 4-3 RDE. For example, would anybody disagree that Clay Matthews would have helped the Broncos more than Robert Ayers?

Yes I agree that more types of players can have success as 3-4 OLBs than 4-3 DEs. You can have your James Harrisons, your Shawne Merrimans, and everything in between. The reason that the Jets take a guy like Gholston or the Broncos take a guy like Ayers is the same reason that the Chargers took a guy like Shawne Merriman--to hopefully have a Shawne Merriman. Would Merriman be a better 4-3 DE than 3-4 OLB? Probably but in retrospect I think the Chargers are glad they didn't "market his pick to a 4-3 team."

Running a 3-4 means you never have to pass on any pass rushing talent due to body type. If you weigh between 230 and 530 pounds and can rush the passer there is a spot for you in the front 7 of a 3-4 team.

[packrulz]

I'm interested in the QB's, I don't want to go through every season with only 2, and this year there are a few good ones that will be mid-round picks, Tebow, McCoy, Pike, LeFevour, & etc. There is good depth in the mid-rounds at RB too, Gerhart, McCluster, Dwyer, Brown, & etc.

[swede]

I'm interested in the QB's, I don't want to go through every season with only 2, and this year there are a few good ones that will be mid-round picks, Tebow, McCoy, Pike, LeFevour, & etc. There is good depth in the mid-rounds at RB too, Gerhart, McCluster, Dwyer, Brown, & etc.

I wondered about that as well. Tebow especially is interesting because his notoriety might cause a distraction and an unnecessary controversy. On the other hand, if MM could teach him the position it would be a good way to flip a 3rd for a first.

One of the really cool aspects of having Wolf and Holmgren working together was the way they turned mid round quarterbacks into first and 2nd round picks after a few years of coaching up. Aaron Brooks, Matt Hasselbeck, and that left-handed warrior whose name I can NEVER remember all paid dividends and provided a decent back up at the position without creating controversy. I'd love to see that process start up behind ARod the way it did behind Favre.

[bigcoz75]

I'm interested in the QB's, I don't want to go through every season with only 2, and this year there are a few good ones that will be mid-round picks, Tebow, McCoy, Pike, LeFevour, & etc. There is good depth in the mid-rounds at RB too, Gerhart, McCluster, Dwyer, Brown, & etc.

I wondered about that as well. Tebow especially is interesting because his notoriety might cause a distraction and an unnecessary controversy. On the other hand, if MM could teach him the position it would be a good way to flip a 3rd for a first.

One of the really cool aspects of having Wolf and Holmgren working together was the way they turned mid round quarterbacks into first and 2nd round picks after a few years of coaching up. Aaron Brooks, Matt Hasselbeck, and that left-handed warrior whose name I can NEVER remember all paid dividends and provided a decent back up at the position without creating controversy. I'd love to see that process start up behind ARod the way it did behind Favre.
+1
I've been saying this same thing since the off season began and laughed at by my less Packers dedicated friends. Who better to turn a competitor like Tebow into a real NFL QB than M3 and Clements?

[Patler]

One of the really cool aspects of having Wolf and Holmgren working together was the way they turned mid round quarterbacks into first and 2nd round picks after a few years of coaching up. Aaron Brooks, Matt Hasselbeck, and that left-handed warrior whose name I can NEVER remember all paid dividends and provided a decent back up at the position without creating controversy. I'd love to see that process start up behind ARod the way it did behind Favre.

Brunnell (a #118 pick) was traded for a 3rd (#66) and a 5th (#170). I thought he was let goo too cheaply.
Brooks (#131) and Lamont Hall were traded for KD Williams and a 3rd (#82). A reasonable trade for both teams.
Hasslebeck (a #187) and the Packers 1st (#17) were traded for a 1st (#10) and a 3rd (#72). Looked good at the time, but wasted when picks were used on Jamal Reynolds and Torrence Marshall.

On the other hand, Wolf got nothing for his efforts with Ty Detmer (lost in free agency), Jay Barker, Kyle Wachholtz, and Ronnie McAda.

I don't have a problem with Wolf's concept, but I'm not sure his QB draft, develop and trade program netted all that much gain for the Packers.

[red]

who the hell is jim taylor?

[swede]

Hasslebeck (a #187) and the Packers 1st (#17) were traded for a 1st (#10) and a 3rd (#72). Looked good at the time, but wasted when picks were used on Jamal Reynolds and Torrence Marshall.



Patlerized!

So Patler, was this the product of a few clicks of research, do you have these numbers in your head, or have you been debunking the myth of the "Wolf/Holmgren back-up QB's traded for awesome draft picks" for years now?

And I had no idea that Hasselbeck's picks had been squandered so badly. Ouch!

[hoosier]

Hasslebeck (a #187) and the Packers 1st (#17) were traded for a 1st (#10) and a 3rd (#72). Looked good at the time, but wasted when picks were used on Jamal Reynolds and Torrence Marshall.

And the Seahawks turned that #17 into Steve Hutchinson! Hasselbeck and Hutchinson for Reynolds and Marshall...that may not be quite as lopsided as Favre for a #1 but it's pretty close. It definitely more than evened things up after the lopsided Vinson for Ahman Green trade.

[pbmax]

who the hell is jim taylor?
He had a show on ABC called Home Improvement.

[Brandon494]

Spiller runs 4.28 round one; dude is blazing

McCluster weighs 170 but put up 225lbs twenty times; he slipped on his first run and only put up a 4.55%. Love to see him in Green n Gold with our round three pick

I would love to get him with our 3rd round pick but I don't see him making it out of the 2nd round. That guy has Deshawn Jackson play-making ability.
The scout guy at move the sticks said no one he talked to with a watch had him below 4.57 on his second, "clean" run. Presumably the one without the slip.

The official numbers will be out tomorrow on nfl.com though, I think. I can't figure out which way is up at this point.

Yea after posting that 40 time I now think he can fall out of the 2nd round and maybe not even until the 4th.

[Fritz]

Spiller runs 4.28 round one; dude is blazing

McCluster weighs 170 but put up 225lbs twenty times; he slipped on his first run and only put up a 4.55%. Love to see him in Green n Gold with our round three pick

I would love to get him with our 3rd round pick but I don't see him making it out of the 2nd round. That guy has Deshawn Jackson play-making ability.
The scout guy at move the sticks said no one he talked to with a watch had him below 4.57 on his second, "clean" run. Presumably the one without the slip.

The official numbers will be out tomorrow on nfl.com though, I think. I can't figure out which way is up at this point.

Yea after posting that 40 time I now think he can fall out of the 2nd round and maybe not even until the 4th.

If the guy would fall down next time he'd run a 4.3!

[packrulz]

I'm interested in the QB's, I don't want to go through every season with only 2, and this year there are a few good ones that will be mid-round picks, Tebow, McCoy, Pike, LeFevour, & etc. There is good depth in the mid-rounds at RB too, Gerhart, McCluster, Dwyer, Brown, & etc.

I wondered about that as well. Tebow especially is interesting because his notoriety might cause a distraction and an unnecessary controversy. On the other hand, if MM could teach him the position it would be a good way to flip a 3rd for a first.

One of the really cool aspects of having Wolf and Holmgren working together was the way they turned mid round quarterbacks into first and 2nd round picks after a few years of coaching up. Aaron Brooks, Matt Hasselbeck, and that left-handed warrior whose name I can NEVER remember all paid dividends and provided a decent back up at the position without creating controversy. I'd love to see that process start up behind ARod the way it did behind Favre.
+1
I've been saying this same thing since the off season began and laughed at by my less Packers dedicated friends. Who better to turn a competitor like Tebow into a real NFL QB than M3 and Clements?
TT says he likes to draft football players, not workout wonders, Tebow is that. He could be the 3rd QB, help out on special teams, and run a Packers scheme of the wildcat. I like Pike and McCoy too, I could see drafting a QB in the 3rd round.

[packrulz]

Monday, March 1, 2010
Notable workout results for defensive ends, linebackers
Defensive ends and linebackers worked out today at the NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis, meaning many of the pass rushers the Packers might consider with the No. 23 overall pick were on the field.

Here are some notable results:

* As we noted earlier, Michigan's Brandon Graham tweaked a hamstring while running the 40-yard dash and dropped out. That injury happened on his second run; he finished his first in 4.72 seconds, which tied for eighth among the players listed as defensive ends. Graham posted 31 reps on the bench press, which would have been good enough to tie for third among linebackers.

* Southern Cal's Everson Griffin -- whom the Packers' Clay Matthews replaced as a starter early in the 2008 season -- ran the 40 in 4.66 seconds, only two-hundredths off Dexter Davis of Arizona State's pace (4.64) for defensive ends. Griffin put up 32 bench reps and had a 36 1/2-inch vertical.

* TCU's Jerry Hughes ran the 40 in 4.69 seconds. Clemson's Ricky Sapp finished in 4.70.

* Mississippi State's Jamar Chaney (4.54) and Florida State's Dekoda Watson (4.56) posted the top 40 times among players who are working out in the linebackers group.

* Alabama inside linebacker Rolando McClain withdrew with an injury.

Also, defensive backs did the bench press today. Boise State's Kyle Wilson led the small group of cornerbacks with 25 -- two more than one of the potential No. 1 draft picks, Oklahoma DT Gerald McCoy managed on Sunday -- while Oklahoma State's Lucien Antoine (28) led the safeties. Other notable safeties: USC's Taylor Mays (24), Florida State's Myron Rolle (21), Texas' Earl Thomas (21), Tennessee's Eric Berry (19).

The combine wraps on Tuesday, when defensive backs run the 40 and do drill work. NFL.com is tracking all the top performers here.

-- Tom Pelissero, tpelisse@greenbaypressgazette.com
http://twitter.com/tompelissero
Sunday, February 28, 2010
Workout results: Ford, Best, Spiller break 4.4 mark
INDIANAPOLIS -- For the second straight day, at least one fast stopwatch had a player breaking the unofficial combine record in the 40-yard dash.

For the second straight day, the official result wasn't quite that good.

Clemson's Jacoby Ford was timed at 4.28 seconds -- still by far the best among receivers, who otherwise failed to break the 4.4 mark altogether, but not the 4.18 speculated earlier.

Other top finishers were Ohio's Taylor Price (4.41), Southern Methodist's Emmanuel Sanders (4.41), Notre Dame's Golden Tate (4.42), Kansas State's Brandon Banks (4.43) and Arizona State's Kyle Williams (4.43).

For Tate, it was a solid showing. He said on Friday he hoped simply to break 4.5.

Top receiver Dez Bryant, among others, didn't run because of injuries.

As expected, West Virginia's Jarrett Brown (4.54) turned in the best time among quarterbacks. Other top finishers were Central Michigan's Dan LeFevour (4.66), Oklahoma State's Zac Robinson (4.71), Florida's Tim Tebow (4.72) and Texas' Colt McCoy (4.79).

This arguably is the biggest day for drills at the combine, with running backs also participating. Their 40s aren't done yet.

UPDATE, 3:12 p.m.: Some notable workout figures ...

* Louisville WR Scott Long tied for the lead on the bench press (20 reps), had the best vertical (41 1/2 inches) and ran the 40 in 4.46, which is highly respectable for a big receiver (6-foot-2, 214 pounds). Arrelious Benn and Donald Jones also did 20 bench reps.

* Score one for the little guy -- Ole Miss RB Dexter McCluster (5-9, 172) put up 20 bench reps of 225 pounds, good for seventh among RBs. Fresno State's Lonyae Miller and Auburn's Ben Tate did 26. Tate's 40 1/2-inch vertical ranked behind only Montario Hardesty's 41.

* Tebow's jumping ability also impressed -- his vertical was 38 1/2 inches (by far the best among QBs) and his broad jump was 9 feet, 7 inches.

UPDATE, 3:53 p.m.: And now the running back results in the 40 are in.

Cal's Jahvid Best (4.35) and Clemson's C.J. Spiller (4.37) topped the list, while McCluster -- yikes -- recorded a 4.58. Other top times were by: Tate (4.43), Ryan Matthews (4.45), Joe McKnight (4.47), Hardesty (4.49) and James Stark (4.50).

According to NFL.com, Oklahoma RB Chris Bown pulled up lame and didn't return because of a hamstring injury.

-- Tom Pelissero, tpelisse@greenbaypressgazette.com
http://twitter.com/tompelissero

I'm wondering if TT should draft DE Graham if he's still there and hope that LT Veldheer is still there in the 2nd round. I like the RB Tate from Auburn, he can catch passes and might still be there in the 3rd round.
"Now that Auburn is back in a more pro-style offense, Tate has taken off in 2009. Through 11 games of his senior campaign, Tate had 225 carries for 1209 yards and eight touchdowns. Remaining a solid pass-catcher, he also had 16 receptions for 88 yards. While the numbers make a case for themselves in terms of Tate being one of the best--or THE best--running back in the SEC, Tate felt compelled to go out and say that he was better than Alabama RB and Heisman hopeful Mark Ingram.

While Tate's status among SEC running backs is up for debate, there is no question about his talent and physical tools. He stands at just 5'11'', but he weighs in at 218 pounds. A downhill runner, Tate is a load to bring down (especially when he gets a full head of steam behind him). He has been clocked as low as 4.40 in the 40-yard dash, but his average time is right around 4.50. It's no real surprise that Tate floundered in the spread offense. He rarely beats defenses going outside; he much prefers going straight up the gut and running over people, rather than around people. While durability and experience are major pluses, consistency appears to be an issue. Tate racks up his stats in bunches, but too often is a non-factor throughout entire games. For now, it looks like Tate will go off the board during the fourth round of the 2010 NFL Draft."

NFL Combine Results
40-Yard Dash 4.43
Bench press 26
Vertical jump 40.5
Broad jump 10'04
Three-cone drill 6.91


Last Updated Nov-17-2009 by Ricky Dimon

[bigcoz75]

Ouch Joe Haden with a 4.60 unofficial 40. Shades of Malcom Jenkins last year. He was expected to run sub 4.4.

[Lurker64]

Ouch Joe Haden with a 4.60 unofficial 40. Shades of Malcom Jenkins last year. He was expected to run sub 4.4.

4.57 and 4.60 unofficial. Certainly not something for a guy who had a chance to be a top 5 or top 10 pick to be proud of.

[Patler]

Hasslebeck (a #187) and the Packers 1st (#17) were traded for a 1st (#10) and a 3rd (#72). Looked good at the time, but wasted when picks were used on Jamal Reynolds and Torrence Marshall.



So Patler, was this the product of a few clicks of research, do you have these numbers in your head, or have you been debunking the myth of the "Wolf/Holmgren back-up QB's traded for awesome draft picks" for years now?

And I had no idea that Hasselbeck's picks had been squandered so badly. Ouch!

I remembered "Hasselbeck and the #17 pick for the #10 pick and a 3rd round pick". I also remembered who the Packers took with those picks. This comes up every now and then. I did not remember and had to look up what pick #s Hasslebeck and Marshall were.

I didn't mind the trade. The fact that the Packers wasted the picks on non-performers doesn't really change my opinion on the trade.

There are a lot of myths about Wolf. The idea that he drafted a bunch of QBs and traded them for top picks is one of them. Hasslebeck is the only one who brought much increased value in the trade. But I still like the idea of drafting QBs with mid and late round picks if there is no one else available that you really like. If you can use them as a back up for a few years, then get a pick back in return, its better than the typical 3rd or 4th year player who is simply released with nothing back in return. QBs have some trade value at least.

[hoosier]

I read something yesterday, I think it was by Michael Lombardi, that compared Jerry Hughes and Brandon Graham and seemed to suggest they were about equal. Has anyone seen a projection of where Hughes goes? Anyone read other opinions of how he compares to other pass rushing LBs?

[mission]

Taylor Mays 4.24 (unofficial) ties Chris Johnson... who was saying the guy was too slow to play safety? LOL

He still might not have any ball skills but that could potentially be taught.

4.34 on the second one... veered off a bit to the right. Dude is BIG to be running that fast.

[mission]

Devin McCourtey in that 4.34 4.35 range... dude blocked 8 kicks in college!

Looks long too

Warren from Mich is SLOW (might work in the zone)

[Freak Out]

Taylor Mays 4.24 (unofficial) ties Chris Johnson... who was saying the guy was too slow to play safety? LOL

He still might not have any ball skills but that could potentially be taught.

4.34 on the second one... veered off a bit to the right. Dude is BIG to be running that fast.

Wow......dude has been taking his vitamins.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Taylor Mays 4.24 (unofficial) ties Chris Johnson... who was saying the guy was too slow to play safety? LOL

He still might not have any ball skills but that could potentially be taught.

4.34 on the second one... veered off a bit to the right. Dude is BIG to be running that fast.

I think that pretty much solidifies Oakland's pick.

On a side note, looks like Eric Berry ran a 4.4 unofficially. I'm curious to see his vertical. When a player with his college tape has this good of a combine it has to justify a top 5 selection IMO.

[mission]

Taylor Mays 4.24 (unofficial) ties Chris Johnson... who was saying the guy was too slow to play safety? LOL

He still might not have any ball skills but that could potentially be taught.

4.34 on the second one... veered off a bit to the right. Dude is BIG to be running that fast.

I think that pretty much solidifies Oakland's pick.

On a side note, looks like Eric Berry ran a 4.4 unofficially. I'm curious to see his vertical. When a player with his college tape has this good of a combine it has to justify a top 5 selection IMO.

They're talking about Berry right now and how his combine performance has basically solidified the spot everyone projected him at.

Joe Hayden might slide running a 4.6 ...

Osauwu or whatever.. that kid from Indiana (Pennsylvania)... looks like he has an NFL frame and definite speed. I'd love to get him in the 3rd.

They're talking about the Packers maybe taking Mays if a lot of the top OL are off the board at 23.

Still not sure how'd I'd feel about that but the upside is huge...

[mission]

OK somehow that's a 4.43 official 40 for Mays. Not sure how there's that much of a discrepancy in times.

Kid looks good. Jumping up to get the ball at the highest point, looks scary out there... I'm feeling guilty for slightly getting back on the Mays bandwagon after talking some shit about him. :lol:

[TennesseePackerBacker]

No Mays for me. I've seen too much of him to think he'll be anything but Roy Williams 2.0.

[Lurker64]

OK somehow that's a 4.43 official 40 for Mays. Not sure how there's that much of a discrepancy in times.

Kid looks good. Jumping up to get the ball at the highest point, looks scary out there... I'm feeling guilty for slightly getting back on the Mays bandwagon after talking some shit about him. :lol:

I really don't understand why they can't set it up to time 10, 20, and 40 yard splits electronically and have the results available immediately. Isn't electronic timing pretty standard in track and field?

[swede]

LOL


OK somehow that's a 4.43 official 40 for Mays. Not sure how there's that much of a discrepancy in times.

Kid looks good. Jumping up to get the ball at the highest point, looks scary out there... I'm feeling guilty for slightly getting back on the Mays bandwagon after talking some shit about him. :lol:

Mayock and Coach Billick had a great discussion about that.

A scout busts his hump looking at tapes, watching games all over their region and finding out who can play football, game in and game out, with solid fundamentals and then the coach comes to the combine and falls in love with the Tarzans that play like Jane. (Not that Mays is in that category, but many have warned us away from Mays and suggest that he has flaws that will keep him from being a good NFL safety.)

The discussion ended with the idea that a well-run football team would use unexpected combine numbers, good and bad, along with the tape to reach the right conclusions for the team.

It was funny to think of the scouts doing all that work and having the coaches waltz in and get influenced unduly by combine numbers.

[RashanGary]

Now that we don't play man, I'd love if if a slower, but dominate zone corner dropped to us in the 2nd or 3rd rounds.

[Patler]

From the GBPG, with an interesting quote from TT:


Much ado about nothing: After spending a week in Indianapolis, decision-makers across the NFL will return to their draft rooms Wednesday and begin factoring in the measurements, testing results and medical data they collected at the combine.

General manager Ted Thompson said he and John Dorsey, the Packers' director of college scouting, will move players up and players down based on the new information.

Over the next four weeks, scouts will fan out testing prospects on their college campuses.

In the two weeks leading up to the draft, Thompson, Dorsey and others will make their final adjustments, and guess what? Their stack of players won't look much different than it was before Indy.

"By the time you get to the draft, those names go back to the original place they were before we came to the combine," Thompson said. "I swear it happens.

"You go back and watch the tape and say, 'You know what? We're nuts.'

"So, as much as we can, we try to lean on the football stuff and say, 'Is he a good player? Does he like to play the game?'

"If he can do those things, he has a chance to be a Packer."

[cheesner]

From the GBPG, with an interesting quote from TT:


Much ado about nothing: After spending a week in Indianapolis, decision-makers across the NFL will return to their draft rooms Wednesday and begin factoring in the measurements, testing results and medical data they collected at the combine.

General manager Ted Thompson said he and John Dorsey, the Packers' director of college scouting, will move players up and players down based on the new information.

Over the next four weeks, scouts will fan out testing prospects on their college campuses.

In the two weeks leading up to the draft, Thompson, Dorsey and others will make their final adjustments, and guess what? Their stack of players won't look much different than it was before Indy.

"By the time you get to the draft, those names go back to the original place they were before we came to the combine," Thompson said. "I swear it happens.

"You go back and watch the tape and say, 'You know what? We're nuts.'

"So, as much as we can, we try to lean on the football stuff and say, 'Is he a good player? Does he like to play the game?'

"If he can do those things, he has a chance to be a Packer."
This is good to hear.

Those who are running down Mays' field production - he played much better the previous season. I am wondering if loosing 3 probowl caliber LBs in front of him, affected his game. I haven't watched much USC to know why the production dropped, I just remember it was a bit shocking the first I heard that some guy named Berry may be the first S off the board in 2010 after hearing so much positive talk about Mays.

[mission]

In combine interviews he said he the coaches really stressed for him to be a thumper back there and play a certain role. He said he will only listen to what his present (and future) coaches tell him to do and playing to outside criticism won't help him keep his (current) job.

Could be the whole AJ Hawk thing at WLB in the 4-3 (or so we thought) or just a clever response.

Didn't see him miss any balls or catch anything with his body. Everything in the drills was at the highest point (that's high for a guy that athletic and tall) or reached out in front of him. At least he seems well aware of the criticism and has been working on it.

And even though that 4.42 doesn't look as good as a 4.24, he was still the fastest out of all DBs (not just safeties).

[RashanGary]

Nice find, Patler. Interesting new Tedism.

[RashanGary]

And Waldo keeps insisting Ted drafts off the numbers.

Maybe Waldo is spotting patterns, but it's not Ted drafting off the numbers, it's the numbers (not the height, weight, 40 that many common fans notice) but the 20 yd split, cone drill, and whatever else Waldo uses for each particualr position. Maybe those are indicators of transferable physical talent and great players tend to have those qualities, so thats why we see the patterns.

Maybe the great players Ted drafts just happen to have certain numbers in common. (pass rushers with high 10 yard splits). RB's with high 10 yard splits. OL with high explosive numbers, etc. . .

[RashanGary]

I'm kind of hoping we end up with Mike Iupati. With so many OT's putting up monster numbers and Iupati sort of just blending in, he might drop. Then there's the matter of him playing guard and OT being the premium draft position. Then there are workout warriors at other positions moving up. Then there is the small school stigma.


The guy looks like an absolute mauler and a decade long star on the field. At the combine he didn't shine quite as bright. Hopefully some of the luster stays on some of these work out warriors and we end up with the real football warrior.

I don't dislike Colledge, but I love the idea of having a superstar LG for a decade. I think it would change our line to have a guy we can count on to open his gap just about every time, a guy who defenses have to shift attention to, or they won't be able to protect his gap.

[Brandon494]

We don't need a guard and I don't want to try and switch a guard to a tackle.

This is one of the deepest drafts in years so don't be surprised to see TT move down but if he doesnt our 1st round pick will be a future starter on the O-line.

GUARNTEE IT

[Lurker64]

Maybe those are indicators of transferable physical talent and great players tend to have those qualities, so thats why we see the patterns.

Well, the combine would be a tremendous waste of everybody's time if the tests they did had nothing to do with one's ability to perform physically on the football field. The job for talent evaluators and GMs is to figure out which numbers indicate what (and also what the numbers don't indicate).

But ultimately, if a guy looks strong and fast on the field during the season, that'll probably show up when you test his strength and his speed.

I think our GM is more interested in athleticism that is shown on tape than combine numbers, but is also more interested in combine numbers than college football stat lines.

[packrulz]

I've been intrigued by Mays from the start, size, strength, speed, he's got it. I don't listen to the bashing because when USC is winning, he's a stud, and when they lose he's a bum.

[Brandon494]

I've been intrigued by Mays from the start, size, strength, speed, he's got it. I don't listen to the bashing because when USC is winning, he's a stud, and when they lose he's a bum.

Guess you don't watch much college football because dude takes horrible angles and doesnt wrap up on tackles.

Ever think of the fact that maybe having Matthews, Cushing, and Rey Rey getting pressure on the QB made him look better during his junior season.

[RashanGary]

I think our GM is more interested in athleticism that is shown on tape than combine numbers, but is also more interested in combine numbers than college football stat lines.

It sounds like we're talking about causation here. If I'm reading you correctly, I'd read this:

The number one reasoning behind Ted's picks is game tape
Somewhere after game tape, Ted considers combine numbers
Somewhere after combine numbers, Ted considers college stats


I'd disagree somewhat. I think you might be seeing causation where I see correlation. I don't think Ted really looks at combine numbers at all, other than to weed out the worst athletes. I think his picks correlate to certain numbers, but I don't think those numbers cause his picks. If you're saying combine numbers have more correlation to Ted's picks than production, I'll agree. If you're saying combine numbers influence him more than production, I don't know that I agree. NOthing Ted has ever said leads me to agree with that. His only real concern is game tape. That's what I hear him saying, anyway.

I think Waldo and others have pointed out some strong correlations though. I won't deny them. Certain measured attributes tend to show up on the field. Ted finds it the old school way, by watching film, but there are other ways to try to spot it too and both can lead to the same answer. I just disagree that Ted really looks at the numbers. I don't think he evaluates that way, in spite of the strong correlation saying he does.

[RashanGary]

Here's an example of how I think Ted will grade a player:


Ted watches a WR in college. He sees him consistently catch balls thrown to him. He sees him catch high ones, low ones, thrown behind, thrown in front. He sees him create separation, catch balls in traffic, block, get along with his teammates and run well after the catch.

He gives said player a high grade.

Said player goes to the combine and measures in a 5'11". He runs a fast 40, but nothing spectacular. He comes from a smaller school, the crowd starts to question whether he really played as well as the tape appears or if it was the competition level. Ted doesn't budge, he remembers the tape.

Draft comes and everyone says, "how can this guy be a legit deep threat? he's not big, he can't really go over people. He's not a burner, he's not going to just run right by people.


Ted drafts him anyway. He believes the tape.


The Packers get Greg Jennings in the 2nd round.


Now, Waldo can probably point out that Greg showed elite short area burst, change of direction ability, explosiveness and other stats and I think you'll find that in a lot of hte WR's TEd picks, but not all of them. Jordy Nelson, for example, is nothing like Jennings physically. Ted finds guys that get open and catch the ball. Maybe they tend to have certain stats, but I don't think those stats go into it very much, if at all. It's correlation, not causation. It's not Ted looking at the numbers, it's Ted finding certain qualities and those qualites happening ot having measured trends that some people have found.

[pbmax]

I don't think Waldo was saying Thompson drafts off numbers or combine alone. But those numbers help rank the players, including what their top line potential might be.

Think about how many prospects they are looking at, including the significant number that will not even be drafted. How many players will end up with similar round grades? How do you differentiate them?

You can only get so far with qualitative grades like Good, Better, Best. You need to be able to sort players whose tape is very close together. So when you are looking at two very similar performing players, you take the better numbers for that position as well.

And tape cannot tell you everything. Speed is relative on tape. With no combine numbers, you might end up with a guy who was fast for the WAC. There is also this fun fact: Ted tells the press nothing he doesn't have to. So he could be dissembling or leaving important factors out.

[RashanGary]

True, pb.

But Ted is nothing if not tragically honest. He would rather look like a total A-hole or dumb-ass than throw out a little misleading white lie. For some reason, when Ted says the tape is all that matters at the end, I tend to believe him.

I definitely give credit to the numbers though. I think there are clear trends that some people have done a great job picking out.

[RashanGary]

After the Favre drama went down, an older man that knew both Brett and Ted was on his death bed. Bedard had this in one of his blogs.

The son of the late elderly scout wanted to share something about Thompson, so Bedards readers could get a glimps of who Ted was.

That elderly scout said he loved Brett Favre, but was extremely disappointed in his actions. He said Ted Thompson was one of most honest, good men he ever knew. Said Brett calling Ted dishonest hurt him.

AFter he died, his son wanted people to know how much respect his dad had for Thompson.



Like I said, Thompson is nothing if not tragically honest. The guy doesn't lie. If he says it's all tape, I believe him, even if there are correlations people can find, I don't believe they are causation because Ted say so. I don't think Ted is all that complicated and misleading. When he says something clearly jsut believe him.

[Brandon494]

True, pb.

But Ted is nothing if not tragically honest. He would rather look like a total A-hole or dumb-ass than throw out a little misleading white lie. For some reason, when Ted says the tape is all that matters at the end, I tend to believe him.

I definitely give credit to the numbers though. I think there are clear trends that some people have done a great job picking out.

Well he is right about that, at the end all that matters is the tape. I'm sure combine results also have a lot to do with his picks, hes just not one of those GMs that falls in love with 40 times which is a great thing. He knows hot to draft football players, not combine stars (cough cough Al Davis).

[packrulz]

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Latest News
03/02/2010 - One Dallas Cowboys scout took a look at Maryland offensive tackle Bruce Campbell at the NFL Scouting Combine and decided he'd seen the second coming of a mythological Greek god. "He has the best body of anyone I've ever seen," the scout said. Campbell met the media on Friday and the impression was that if Hercules looked like Campbell, then Hercules was in pretty good shape. At 6-foot-61/2 and 314 fat-free pounds, Campbell was an imposing figure in a tight-fitting Under Armour shirt with shoulder muscles so large that he looked as if he was wearing shoulder pads. But as impressive a physical specimen as he is, Campbell started only 17 games in college and is viewed as a project. "I feel like everybody in here, we're all starting freshmen again," Campbell said of the players at the combine. "We're all rookies so one person may not be able to tell how raw another person is." Several NFL mock drafts have the Cowboys drafting Campbell with the No. 27 pick in the first round, and there is little doubt they need to add offensive line depth. But if he is impressive at the combine, he might be off the board by the time Dallas drafts. "Wherever I go, I'm going to go there and compete for a position," Campbell said. "I'm going to play football wherever I go. I really don't mind wherever I go - Cowboys, to the Rams, Redskins, it doesn't bother me. I'm going to play football." If there is a negative Campbell has besides experience, it's a condition called Arnold-Chiari, which healthline.com describes as "a rare genetic disorder" where "some parts of the brain are formed abnormally." Campbell said he had surgery in high school to relieve the problem and that doctors at the combine cleared him to play, but it could be the type of condition that might affect his draft status. - Jan Hubbard, Fort Worth Star Telegram

[packrulz]

Experts think it could be the best draft for lineman in years: http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/13080262/cooney-cover?tag=coverlist_active;coverlist_footer