Ryan Grant

[Tony Oday]

I personally didn't know this but dang he actually had a really good year...I am down on him like a lot of people here saying he is a servicable back that we could upgrade, but actually looking at the stats from last year wow.

I mean he had 1253 yards averaged 4.4 yards per carry, 11 TDs, 10 explosive runs and....WAIT FOR IT....ZERO FUMBLES!!! WTF

I mean I would imagine most of us here think Chris Johnson and AP are the class of the NFL for last year right? Well compare the stats...AP had 1383 yards and a 4.4 average, 18 TDs, 15 explosive runs and 6 fumbles...CJ had 2009 yards (Damn) 5.6 avg (WOW) 14 TDs, 29 explosive runs and only 3 fumbles.

Comparing the three well CJ had a freaking CAREER year and AP had a "down" year.

Now look at the offenses they played on. The Pack and Vikes had similar stats in the Passing game and the Titans...well...they were the 23 ranked passing offense.

Now I am not saying that Grant is the class of the NFL but if you look at the stats for him to really be considered elite would he have to have 5 more explosive carries a year? I would take his running and not killing 6 drives a year with fumbles.

What do you folks think? I mean a decent number 2 back and an O line that is in tuned with eachother we could have such an amazing compliment to our already amazingly talented passing game.

*edit*

Oh and this also must mean our much maligned O line and coaching staff...I am one of the most outspoken on how much they rub...actually did a good job here...damn crow tastes funny...

[Bretsky]

been a widely debated topic. If you really break down every #1 RB you'd have to consider Grant a top 12 RB. People should list their top 12. Hard to keep Grant out of it.

He's not an elite RB IMO but we can win a Super Bowl with Ryan Grant. He's a solid, but unspectacular #1 RB.

[Tony Oday]

been a widely debated topic. If you really break down every #1 RB you'd have to consider Grant a top 12 RB. People should list their top 12. Hard to keep Grant out of it.

He's not an elite RB IMO but we can win a Super Bowl with Ryan Grant. He's a solid, but unspectacular #1 RB.

Now the question then Bretsky is what would make him a spectacular back? Is it 6-10 more 20+ yard carries?

[pbmax]

I think the explosive runs number basically covers his shortcomings. The rest of the numbers are quite good. And the team did well in short yardage and power rushing opportunities (also need to love the fullback dive). Can we agree he isn't overpaid now? :lol:

[Tony Oday]

I guess that is it, I was just making sure I wasnt missing something...I mean if the line corrects its mistakes from last year...DAMN he could be MORE than servicable...

[Joemailman]

My only issue with Grant is that he isn't a very good pass receiver. I suspect that is part of the reason we don't see more screen passes. I'm okay with Ryan now, but I suspect he'll have a relatively short career. He probably has about three years of productivity left.

[Bretsky]

been a widely debated topic. If you really break down every #1 RB you'd have to consider Grant a top 12 RB. People should list their top 12. Hard to keep Grant out of it.

He's not an elite RB IMO but we can win a Super Bowl with Ryan Grant. He's a solid, but unspectacular #1 RB.

Now the question then Bretsky is what would make him a spectacular back? Is it 6-10 more 20+ yard carries?


A better receiver
A better ability to make people miss


If you look at all of the NFL #1 backs you'll find out there are a lot of weak ones. We are fortunate to have Grant. A lot of teams really are in need of a #1 RB to develop

[wist43]

Grant has grown on me...

Yes, he's straight lineish, and doesn't make much on his own beyond running thru arm tackles, but he's steady, fast, and the type of back that gets stronger as the game goes on.

I'd like to see a better compliment to him... but that isn't a knock on Grant himself - a lot of teams are built around two backs.

[pbmax]

My only issue with Grant is that he isn't a very good pass receiver. I suspect that is part of the reason we don't see more screen passes. I'm okay with Ryan now, but I suspect he'll have a relatively short career. He probably has about three years of productivity left.
Dammit. Just when I was feeling all warm and glowing, you had to remind me of pass catching backs...

[Tony Oday]

My only issue with Grant is that he isn't a very good pass receiver. I suspect that is part of the reason we don't see more screen passes. I'm okay with Ryan now, but I suspect he'll have a relatively short career. He probably has about three years of productivity left.
Dammit. Just when I was feeling all warm and glowing, you had to remind me of pass catching backs...

we'll work on that?

[packerbacker1234]

Grant is reliable. Wasn't there a stat thrown up at some point that showed since Adrian Peterson has gotten in the league, Ryan Grant is #2 in the NFL in rushing yards behind him?


Peterson - 915 - 4484 - 22
Jones - 931 - 3904 - 14
Jackson - 814 - 3460 - 23
Grant - 782 - 3412 - 23
Tomlinson- 830 - 3314 - 38
Gore - 729 - 3258 - 21
Johnson - 609 - 3234 - 23

After adding the stats over the last 3 years, these are the ONLY RB's over 3,000 yards. Of them, the special notes are that gore and up were indeed starters for all 3 years. Grant checks in at #4, despite only starting half a season where you could assume, if he was healthy, another 80 or so carries and 400 to 500 yards, which would easily bump him a spot. Also of note that Chris Johnson did this in only two years, so he is obviously at teh top of the list of best.

So if I had to list best RB's RIGHT NOW?

Adrian Peterson
Christ Johnson
Michael Turner
Thomas Jones
Ryan Grant
Frank Gore

Say what you want but the statistics do not lie. He has been one of the most consistent RB's in the league since he began starting, putting up numbers that are comparable with the best this league has to offer. If you were givena choice of Frank Gore or Ryan Grant, who would you pick? The numbers say... Ryan Grant.

So... why are we in fret to look for a Grant replacement? Like it or not, the guy is a top 10, maybe a fringe top 5 RB in this league.

[3irty1]

Chris Johnson is head and shoulders above everyone at the moment.

[packerbacker1234]

Chris Johnson is head and shoulders above everyone at the moment.

Thats what they said after LT's 2k season, and AP's 1700 season. Yes, it was ONE really damn good year, but one year does not magically make you the best, which is why most still consider AP be the best as he has proven himself for 3 years now. Chris Johnson needs to put up numbers for more then one year to really be considered the best. The season before he was mediocre, finish with barely over 1k and in line with many of the average RB's in the league.

[Zool]

Chris Johnson is head and shoulders above everyone at the moment.

Thats what they said after LT's 2k season, and AP's 1700 season. Yes, it was ONE really damn good year, but one year does not magically make you the best, which is why most still consider AP be the best as he has proven himself for 3 years now. Chris Johnson needs to put up numbers for more then one year to really be considered the best. The season before he was mediocre, finish with barely over 1k and in line with many of the average RB's in the league.

Johnson also only had 250 carries in '08 with a 4.9ypc. 9 carries over 20 yards. He was sharing time more with White in '08 than in '09. White had 200 carries in '08 and 64 in '09.

Johnson also had 43 catches in '08 and 50 in '09. If he doesn't get injured he looks like the real deal. I've never needed to put anyone as "the best in the league". Thats an impossible point to make, but Johnson is one hellova RB.

[Lurker64]

So if I had to list best RB's RIGHT NOW?

Adrian Peterson
Chris Johnson
Michael Turner
Thomas Jones
Ryan Grant
Frank Gore


No Maurice Jones-Drew? He's probably my favorite RB in the league right now, in terms of his style, production, and attitude (Though I can't say that Chris Johnson wasn't more impressive last year.) I'd take MJD over Grant, though he'd be considerably more expensive.

[rbaloha1]

RG reminds of Dorsey Levens -- single's hitters. Unflashy with occasional homeruns.

As someone mentioned the Packers can win a super bowl with RG.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I didn’t feel like doing any real, actual work this morning, so I looked at the stats of the top 20 rushers from 2009

If I had any idea how to format these into a chart, I would!

Rk - Player - Team - Yds - TD - FUM - Year/Rnd/Pick
1 - Chris Johnson - TEN - 2006 - 14 - 3 - 2008/1/24
2 - Steven Jackson - STL - 1416 - 4 - 2 - 2004/1/24
3 - Thomas Jones - NYJ - 1402 - 14 - 2 - 2000/1/7
4 - Maurice Jones-Drew - JAC - 1391 - 15 - 2 - 2002/2/60
5 - Adrian Peterson - MIN - 1383 - 18 - 6 - 2007/1/7
6 - Ray Rice - BAL - 1339 - 7 - 2 - 2008/2/55
7 - Ryan Grant - GB - 1253 - 11 - 0 - 2005/Undrafted/
8 - Cedric Benson - CIN - 1251 - 6 - 1 - 2005/1/4
9 - Jonathan Stewart - CAR - 1133 - 10 - 3 - 2008/1/13
10 - Ricky Williams - MIA - 1121 - 11 - 4 - 1999/1/5
11 - Frank Gore - SF - 1120 - 10 - 4 - 2005/3/65
11 - Jamaal Charles - KC - 1120 - 7 - 2 - 2008/3/73
13 - DeAngelo Williams - CAR - 1117 - 7 - 3 - 2006/1/27
14 - Rashard Mendenhall - PIT - 1108 - 7 - 3 - 2008/1/23
15 - Fred Jackson - BUF - 1062 - 2 - 2 - 2003/Undrafted/
16 - Knowshon Moreno - DEN - 947 - 7 - 2 - 2009/1/12
17 - Marion Barber - DAL - 932 - 7 - 1 - 2005/4/109
18 - Matt Forte - CHI - 929 - 4 - 5 - 2008/2/44
19 - Michael Turner - ATL - 871 - 10 - 4 - 2005/5/154
20 - Jerome Harrison - CLE - 862 - 5 - 2 - 2006/5/145


- 10 were drafted in the first round, 15 in the first three
- Grant was the only top ten rusher NOT picked in the first two rounds
- of the top 6 picks, two were drafted at #7 overall, two at #24overall (top two rushers last year) and the other two at #55 & #56
- There were only two undrafted, Grant the only in the top 14
- 15 were in their first 5 seasons in the league (indicating a short life span of RB’s in the league)
- None had played more than 10 seasons (Ricky Williams was drafted in 1999 however.)
- AP & Michael Turner averaged a TD every17. attempts, Chris Johnson & Grant every 26 attempts, Forte every 65 attempts
- Turner fumbled ever 45 carries, Forte & Peterson every 52, Chris Johson & Fred Jackson every 119, Benson only put it down once, and of course Grant did not fumble

[mission]

I think the variable that our offensive passing attack is quite potent and obviously at the forefront of opponent's attention has something to do with his statistics. Can't imagine a single defense coming to town after a week of game planning to shut down Ryan Grant.

Not saying cut the guy but there's two sides to every story. He's good, pretty dang good, but not Top 5 good IMO.

[Mazzin]

Like I said my only real problem is his lack of receiving skills. With our deadly passing game could you imagen if we could actually aquire a screen game? It would be scary good. That being said I doubt we will be a great screen team with mark and chad playing tackle.

[BobDobbs]

I didn’t feel like doing any real, actual work this morning, so I looked at the stats of the top 20 rushers from 2009

If I had any idea how to format these into a chart, I would!

Rk - Player - Team - Yds - TD - FUM - Year/Rnd/Pick
1 - Chris Johnson - TEN - 2006 - 14 - 3 - 2008/1/24
2 - Steven Jackson - STL - 1416 - 4 - 2 - 2004/1/24
3 - Thomas Jones - NYJ - 1402 - 14 - 2 - 2000/1/7
4 - Maurice Jones-Drew - JAC - 1391 - 15 - 2 - 2002/2/60
5 - Adrian Peterson - MIN - 1383 - 18 - 6 - 2007/1/7
6 - Ray Rice - BAL - 1339 - 7 - 2 - 2008/2/55
7 - Ryan Grant - GB - 1253 - 11 - 0 - 2005/Undrafted/
8 - Cedric Benson - CIN - 1251 - 6 - 1 - 2005/1/4
9 - Jonathan Stewart - CAR - 1133 - 10 - 3 - 2008/1/13
10 - Ricky Williams - MIA - 1121 - 11 - 4 - 1999/1/5
11 - Frank Gore - SF - 1120 - 10 - 4 - 2005/3/65
11 - Jamaal Charles - KC - 1120 - 7 - 2 - 2008/3/73
13 - DeAngelo Williams - CAR - 1117 - 7 - 3 - 2006/1/27
14 - Rashard Mendenhall - PIT - 1108 - 7 - 3 - 2008/1/23
15 - Fred Jackson - BUF - 1062 - 2 - 2 - 2003/Undrafted/
16 - Knowshon Moreno - DEN - 947 - 7 - 2 - 2009/1/12
17 - Marion Barber - DAL - 932 - 7 - 1 - 2005/4/109
18 - Matt Forte - CHI - 929 - 4 - 5 - 2008/2/44
19 - Michael Turner - ATL - 871 - 10 - 4 - 2005/5/154
20 - Jerome Harrison - CLE - 862 - 5 - 2 - 2006/5/145


- 10 were drafted in the first round, 15 in the first three
- Grant was the only top ten rusher NOT picked in the first two rounds
- of the top 6 picks, two were drafted at #7 overall, two at #24overall (top two rushers last year) and the other two at #55 & #56
- There were only two undrafted, Grant the only in the top 14

That's interesting, I think I had bought into the line of thought that you don't need to draft a back very high, because there's a bunch of guys that can do it, so you might as well save the picks. I think we really got lucky to get Grant as cheaply as we did.

[Brandon494]

Grant is not as good as his numbers show. Teams are focusing on stopping Aaron Rodgers and the passing game, they arent focusing on Grant because he has limited moves and is a below average pass catcher. Now he is a top 15 back in the league for sure but top 8 he is pushing it.

Here are a few RBs I would prefer over Grant....

Chris Johnson
Steven Jackson
Maurice Jones-Drews
Adrian Peterson
Ray Rice
Frank Gore
DeAngelo Williams
Michael Turner
Pierre Thomas
Jamaal Charles- know he has only done it for one year but is only 23.
Jonathan Stewart
Ronnie Brown- might take him off my list only because of injuries.
Felix Jones- this guy was stuck behind McFadden in college and now Barber in the NFL. If he had the chance to be a #1 back I think he could be a star, kinda like when Turner left SD.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

I think you are letting your disdain for RG cloud your vision Brandon. You've been playing too much madden.

Pierre Thomas? really? a platoon back that had a great offensive line in front of him.

The same could be said of Jonathan Stewart or DeAngelo Williams. Neither one see 20+ carries. Grant does the heavy lifting on his own.

Ronnie Brown? Mr. Torn ACL....now you are just reaching

Jamaal Charles and Felix Jones jr. as feature backs? Yea...if only we still played in college(like that would matter to fragile Felix).

Frank Gore has injury concerns. Ray Rice runs behind one of the most massive and best run blocking lines out there.

Now I think you just reached for most of these, but come on man! Show RG some love. He deserves it.

[Brandon494]

I think you are letting your disdain for RG cloud your vision Brandon. You've been playing too much madden.

Pierre Thomas? really? a platoon back that had a great offensive line in front of him.

The same could be said of Jonathan Stewart or DeAngelo Williams. Neither one see 20+ carries. Grant does the heavy lifting on his own.

Ronnie Brown? Mr. Torn ACL....now you are just reaching

Jamaal Charles and Felix Jones jr. as feature backs? Yea...if only we still played in college(like that would matter to fragile Felix).

Frank Gore has injury concerns. Ray Rice runs behind one of the most massive and best run blocking lines out there.

Now I think you just reached for most of these, but come on man! Show RG some love. He deserves it.

What is all this talk about me disliking Grant? Also you might want to do some research on those guys before you make commenta about them.

Pierre Thomas might split carries with Bush but when he does get the rock runs with great balance and power and hes a good reciever out of the backfield unlike Grant.

If you don't think Stewart and Williams are more talented backs than Grant then you must not watch much football man. Stewart was only 120 yards behind Grant last season with 61 less carries, and thats with teams actually focusing on stoping the run against the Panthers with Delhomme at QB. Willams also had 1117 yards on 216 carries.

Like I said I might take Grant over Brown because of injuries but when he is heathly its not even close.

Might want to check out some Chief games because Charles is a stud. 1120 yards on 190 carries at the age of 23 on one of the worst teams in the league. Rushed for 259 yards last game of the season against the Broncos, yea he is a featured back.

I'm not going to bother defending why Gore or Rice are better.

Listen I like Grant and I'm happy with him as our starter but take off the G&G glasses for a second. This is the same back that ran under 4 years per carry in 08 and only had 3 games last season where he ran over 100 yards. He is not a top 10 back like some are making him out to be.

[packerbacker1234]

[quote=TennesseePackerBacker]I think you are He is not a top 10 back like some are making him out to be.

Every statistical category disagree's with you. Add on the fact I think he was the only full time feature back (not a split carry back) without a fumble and it only increases his value that much more.

[Tony Oday]

[quote=TennesseePackerBacker]I think you are He is not a top 10 back like some are making him out to be.

Every statistical category disagree's with you. Add on the fact I think he was the only full time feature back (not a split carry back) without a fumble and it only increases his value that much more.

Hes got you there...no fumbles and the guy that carries the load on his own. Thomas, though I like him, also splits carries and can you really say teams key on him?

[Brandon494]

[quote=TennesseePackerBacker]I think you are He is not a top 10 back like some are making him out to be.

Every statistical category disagree's with you. Add on the fact I think he was the only full time feature back (not a split carry back) without a fumble and it only increases his value that much more.

Hes got you there...no fumbles and the guy that carries the load on his own. Thomas, though I like him, also splits carries and can you really say teams key on him?

Only reason Grant didn't split any time was because we have no other RBs on the roster. Brandon Jackson is a joke at RB and he is injuried most of the time. I agree with you that Grant is great at holding on to the ball but that doesn't make him better than those RBs I listed. If thats the case I guess you would rather have Grant than Ahman Green in his prime.

[RashanGary]

I'd say Grant is a solid top 20 RB with the way he runs. Add his durability and ball security and he's a top 15 RB.


I'm not in any hurry to replace him, but if an opportunity comes up to get a great RB, I'd take it. There is room for another back here, even with Grant. He just won't get as many carries is all.

[Gunakor]

[quote=TennesseePackerBacker]I think you are He is not a top 10 back like some are making him out to be.

Every statistical category disagree's with you. Add on the fact I think he was the only full time feature back (not a split carry back) without a fumble and it only increases his value that much more.

Hes got you there...no fumbles and the guy that carries the load on his own. Thomas, though I like him, also splits carries and can you really say teams key on him?

Only reason Grant didn't split any time was because we have no other RBs on the roster. Brandon Jackson is a joke at RB and he is injuried most of the time. I agree with you that Grant is great at holding on to the ball but that doesn't make him better than those RBs I listed. If thats the case I guess you would rather have Grant than Ahman Green in his prime.

If Green's "prime" is his 1800 yard season alone then you're right. But I'd rather have 1200 yard 0 fumble Grant than Green's 1300 yard 6+ fumble seasons that Green put up regularly during his time here.

[Gunakor]

I'm not in any hurry to replace him, but if an opportunity comes up to get a great RB, I'd take it. There is room for another back here, even with Grant. He just won't get as many carries is all.

Grant is more effective the more carries he gets. The team wins more games the more carries he gets. I do not understand people's obsession with a 2 RB system when we have a starting RB who is most effective in a workhorse role. He needs his 25+ carries per game.

[Brandon494]

I'm not in any hurry to replace him, but if an opportunity comes up to get a great RB, I'd take it. There is room for another back here, even with Grant. He just won't get as many carries is all.

Grant is more effective the more carries he gets. The team wins more games the more carries he gets. I do not understand people's obsession with a 2 RB system when we have a starting RB who is most effective in a workhorse role. He needs his 25+ carries per game.

Because if he gets injuried then we are screwed, I dont understand your obsession with not having another RB to take some of the load off of Grant. No one is saying he needs to be replaced but damn we need some depth at the position.

[Freak Out]

I'm not in any hurry to replace him, but if an opportunity comes up to get a great RB, I'd take it. There is room for another back here, even with Grant. He just won't get as many carries is all.

Grant is more effective the more carries he gets. The team wins more games the more carries he gets. I do not understand people's obsession with a 2 RB system when we have a starting RB who is most effective in a workhorse role. He needs his 25+ carries per game.

Because if he gets injuried then we are screwed, I dont understand your obsession with not having another RB to take some of the load off of Grant. No one is saying he needs to be replaced but damn we need some depth at the position.

Agree with you there Brandon....we have nothing behind Grant if he gets hurt.....Jackson has shown he is a third down back.

[RashanGary]

Exactly and we've all seen Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson, M-Jones-Drew and others run in a manner that has us drooling.

Nothing wrong with Grant. I don't think it's a stretch or insult to call him a good starting running back. In fact, that's exactly what I think he is.

If I could get another good one to compliment him for a small price, I'd do it. If I could get a great one to take more of the load, I'd take that too. Sheesh, this is Ryan Grant, not Adrian Peterson.

[Bretsky]

I think you are letting your disdain for RG cloud your vision Brandon. You've been playing too much madden.

Pierre Thomas? really? a platoon back that had a great offensive line in front of him.

The same could be said of Jonathan Stewart or DeAngelo Williams. Neither one see 20+ carries. Grant does the heavy lifting on his own.

Ronnie Brown? Mr. Torn ACL....now you are just reaching

Jamaal Charles and Felix Jones jr. as feature backs? Yea...if only we still played in college(like that would matter to fragile Felix).

Frank Gore has injury concerns. Ray Rice runs behind one of the most massive and best run blocking lines out there.

Now I think you just reached for most of these, but come on man! Show RG some love. He deserves it.


Healthy, I'd undoubtedly take DeAngelo Williams over Ryan Grant and probably Stewart as well. Ditto for Ray Rice; he's the real deal.

Gore is probably talented but seems to always be hurt so I'd choose Grant there.

Before the ACL I'd definitely take Ronnie Brown. Coming off an ACL I'd take Grant next year. Agree with you about Pierre Thomas.

Unsure about Jamal Charles. He may have been a flash in the pan but for those who want to dwell on statistics.......take a look at his stats from last year.

Too early for me to tell on Felix Jones

[Bretsky]

Exactly and we've all seen Chris Johnson, Adrian Peterson, M-Jones-Drew and others run in a manner that has us drooling.

Nothing wrong with Grant. I don't think it's a stretch or insult to call him a good starting running back. In fact, that's exactly what I think he is.

If I could get another good one to compliment him for a small price, I'd do it. If I could get a great one to take more of the load, I'd take that too. Sheesh, this is Ryan Grant, not Adrian Peterson.


If there is a SuperStar type RB I'm alright with nabbing him. I think TT would be too.

Botom line is with a draft this deep there will be future start there between picks 20-30 and I'll just be happy if we choose one of them who loves the game of football.

[packerbacker1234]

[quote=TennesseePackerBacker]I think you are He is not a top 10 back like some are making him out to be.

Every statistical category disagree's with you. Add on the fact I think he was the only full time feature back (not a split carry back) without a fumble and it only increases his value that much more.

Hes got you there...no fumbles and the guy that carries the load on his own. Thomas, though I like him, also splits carries and can you really say teams key on him?

Only reason Grant didn't split any time was because we have no other RBs on the roster. Brandon Jackson is a joke at RB and he is injuried most of the time. I agree with you that Grant is great at holding on to the ball but that doesn't make him better than those RBs I listed. If thats the case I guess you would rather have Grant than Ahman Green in his prime.

The vikings would of rather had Grant than Adrian Peterson in the championship game. What was that, 3 fumbles involving Peterson, plus another from Berrian and another from Harvin? Take back just ONE of thsoe turnovers and the vikings win.

As impact of a player as Peterson is, he can look in the mirror as much as favre can for blowing that game. Grant would of been a better choice that time.

And Green was GREAT for us, obviously, but he cost us games too. It's sort of like Favre I guess. Both great players, both have the ability to win you games that you have no business winning, but in the same breath they both have the ability to cost you games as well.

[Pugger]

In today's pass oriented game you don't need a top flight RB to be successful. It would be nice to have Grant pass catches (and who knows, maybe he'll improve in this area too). I find it remarkable that he had as much success as he did considering how horrid our line was the first part of the year last season (and Cliffy isn't known for being a great run blocker).

[TennesseePackerBacker]

I think you are letting your disdain for RG cloud your vision Brandon. You've been playing too much madden.

Pierre Thomas? really? a platoon back that had a great offensive line in front of him.

The same could be said of Jonathan Stewart or DeAngelo Williams. Neither one see 20+ carries. Grant does the heavy lifting on his own.

Ronnie Brown? Mr. Torn ACL....now you are just reaching

Jamaal Charles and Felix Jones jr. as feature backs? Yea...if only we still played in college(like that would matter to fragile Felix).

Frank Gore has injury concerns. Ray Rice runs behind one of the most massive and best run blocking lines out there.

Now I think you just reached for most of these, but come on man! Show RG some love. He deserves it.


Healthy, I'd undoubtedly take DeAngelo Williams over Ryan Grant and probably Stewart as well. Ditto for Ray Rice; he's the real deal.

Gore is probably talented but seems to always be hurt so I'd choose Grant there.

Before the ACL I'd definitely take Ronnie Brown. Coming off an ACL I'd take Grant next year. Agree with you about Pierre Thomas.

Unsure about Jamal Charles. He may have been a flash in the pan but for those who want to dwell on statistics.......take a look at his stats from last year.

Too early for me to tell on Felix Jones


DeAngelo is probably the only one I listed that I would probably pick over Grant. However, he still hasn't had the full load placed on him for an entire season. Much less consecutive seasons.

Gore, Brown, and F. Jones all have way too many injury problems for my liking. Durability and dependability are much more important to me in a running back than highlight runs and huge yardage games.

Stewart, Charles, and P. Thomas just need to show more. They could be good, but in this what have you done for me lately league I feel as if fans just focus on the here and now, instead of the entire spectrum. A good running back depends on much more than just talent to be successful.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I won't overrate Grant. I think he's better than some gave him credit for. He's not dynamic, but he's solid. You can win with him. I personally think RBs (unless VERY elite) are more tied to the people around them than any other position, so I don't think you need a stud. He probably ranks in the top half of RBs, but probably not the top 10. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say he had a better year than Peterson. Yards/carry were the same and Peterson's fumbles really hurt his real life value. I just don't expect him to be better year in and year out over Peterson.

[Patler]

As impact of a player as Peterson is, he can look in the mirror as much as favre can for blowing that game. Grant would of been a better choice that time.

And Green was GREAT for us, obviously, but he cost us games too. It's sort of like Favre I guess. Both great players, both have the ability to win you games that you have no business winning, but in the same breath they both have the ability to cost you games as well.

Green has 37 fumbles (24 lost) in 2,406 "touches".
Peterson - 20 fumbles (13 lost) in 1,015 "touches"

[sharpe1027]

Is being "dynamic" really that important if, at the end of the day, the less dynamic player has almost the same results?

If running back A makes 20 carries a year that are just so outstanding that running back B could never make the same carries, but running back B makes up for the yards on those 20 carries over the course of the season by being better on the bulk of his carries, which is better? I know which one makes more headlines and is talked about more, but which really helps the team the most?

The threat of those 20 carries might have a bigger effect on an opposing team's game plan. Other than that, I'm not sure it makes that much difference.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Is being "dynamic" really that important if, at the end of the day, the less dynamic player has almost the same results?

Agreed, but if you are talking about Peterson vs. Grant, then my point is that you could argue that Grant was as good or better last year because of the fumbles, but Peterson was more productive the first two years and I'm guessing he will be most years.

2007 - 5.6 yards/carry vs. 5.1
2008 - 4.8 yards/carry vs. 3.9
2009 - 4.4 yards/carry vs. 4.4

Peterson does fumble more, but he also has almost twice as many receiving yards in his career.

[Bretsky]

I won't overrate Grant. I think he's better than some gave him credit for. He's not dynamic, but he's solid. You can win with him. I personally think RBs (unless VERY elite) are more tied to the people around them than any other position, so I don't think you need a stud. He probably ranks in the top half of RBs, but probably not the top 10. I don't think it's a stretch at all to say he had a better year than Peterson. Yards/carry were the same and Peterson's fumbles really hurt his real life value. I just don't expect him to be better year in and year out over Peterson.


I felt the same way; I pretty much figured he was in the 13-16 range as a RB

Then I looked at all the team's via last years standings and realized a lot of teams have poor options as the #1 RB. I'd probably put Grant in the 8-13 range now...probably closer to 12.......my guess is most would have him around 8 in here

[pbmax]

Actual 2009 results for Ryan Grant and other RBs from Pro-Football-Reference. Factors include rushes, receiving and scoring. Methodology and ranking described here (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=6027#more-6027). There is no attempt made to eliminate other factors such as offensive line performance. But since nearly everyone on this board agrees that the 2009 line could not do much at all, I am sure everyone will make the mental adjustment of moving Grant higher. :D

Chart is from that post as well.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/posting/grant2009.png

[pbmax]

Someone mentioned earlier that Grant was never the focus of the opposing defense given the Packer's passing attack. And while this is true, I think it affects comparisons with only the best runners on teams with fearsome rushing attacks.

Purple Jesus and Stephen Jackson were schemed against. Teams might have adjusted to Chris Johnson later in the season but I saw very little of the Titans late so I do not know.

The same kind of critique was used to dismiss Derek Loville's stats when the 49ers were Super Bowl quality with Young, Rice, Owens and Jones. There is no doubt Loville was the least of the concerns. But there are limits on what teams will do to ignore the RB and focus on the passing game. Teams are much more focused on down and distance and offensive tendencies.

The Packers rarely ran (or even screened) in obvious passing situations and for McCarthy an obvious passing situation on 3rd down is 3 yards and over. And while there are draws in the Packers shortgun, they are infrequent. That means the Packers ran on typical down and distance. The Packers feature some single-back stuff on 1st and 2nd down, but they pass out of it as often as run. And the most popular run formation is two TEs on first down. Which means Grant was not running against nickle defenses and six in the box like Dorsey Levens in 1996.

Grant is probably not in the top ten physically. But his production is top ten. I would not be surprised if they draft another back but as much for Grant's age and contract as for anything else. I would be surprised if it was before the third round. Which means, of course, that it will happen in rounds 1 or 2.

[The Leaper]

Teams might have adjusted to Chris Johnson later in the season but I saw very little of the Titans late so I do not know.

The Titans passing game was relatively bad all year...Vince Young did a little bit in the second half, but it was all Chris Johnson last year. Sorry Max...it didn't take NFL defenses 8+ games to recognize Chris Johnson was their #1 priority.


Grant is probably not in the top ten physically. But his production is top ten.

I'll agree with that. I don't think there are 10 RBs in the league that put up better numbers than Grant. I don't think that means a whole lot...our offense is one of the more elite units in the league, and there are quite a few RBs on bad offenses that don't get near the opportunity Grant does to contribute statistically.

I do think I could find 10+ RBs that would put up equivalent or better numbers as a RB in the Packer system if they were swapped onto our roster in place of Grant.

Grant isn't hurting us...but I don't think he's greatly helping us either. He's a capable runner with some power, good ball security and average elusiveness. However, on this team with a mediocre OL and a superior pass attack...having a RB who can attack the flats in the passing game on 1st and 2nd down would be extremely nice to give the defensive front seven a little more to think about. Grant isn't that guy.

[pbmax]

Teams might have adjusted to Chris Johnson later in the season but I saw very little of the Titans late so I do not know.

The Titans passing game was relatively bad all year...Vince Young did a little bit in the second half, but it was all Chris Johnson last year. Sorry Max...it didn't take NFL defenses 8+ games to recognize Chris Johnson was their #1 priority.
Not sure why you are sorry, :D

My point is that Johnson may very well have made defenses adjust, but the games I saw were with Collins at QB and the adjustment hadn't happened yet.



I do think I could find 10+ RBs that would put up equivalent or better numbers as a RB in the Packer system if they were swapped onto our roster in place of Grant.
And that leads exactly to my point. He executes, but is not a threat. There are places on the team (and some coincide with strong areas of the draft) that have questions about execution by Packer starters. So I don't anticipate his replacement being drafted, at least someone good enough to take his spot this year.

That is not to say the position isn't ripe to be upgraded. But top 10 physically talented runners, while devalued compared to QBs, tackles and CBs, still don't come free unless they are older. And while its possible a top 10 talent (NFL talent, not top 10 draft pick) might drop to the Packers, it seems unlikely.

Thompson seemed to go against BPA last year with the trade up to get Matthews. But he has said he considered him with the number 9 pick. That is probably exaggeration, but its not outside the realm of possibility that the Packers had a first round grade on Matthews AND he fit a need. I don't see that happening at running back.

[vince]

I think Grant is undervalued (in terms of his value to the Packers) by many fans because he doesn't have the same skills that the flashier backs have. It's obvious to see that he's not as quick or shifty as many other backs. And because he’s more of a loping runner, he doesn’t look quite as fast as he really is.

The skills Grant does have are a very good fit for the Packers' offensive approach, running scheme, techniques, and accompanying personnel though. That makes him valuable to the Packers – probably on par with the value that almost any of the other backs with different skill sets would deliver the Packers.

The most effective back for the Packers is a reliable one-cut north-south runner with size and burst through the hole, then straightline speed on the second level. The argument about who’s “better” or more talented than him without the context of the Packers approach is irrelevant.

Some backs would be effective in any scheme. Grant’s probably not one of them, but he doesn’t play in any scheme. That doesn’t mean that most of the other backs would be more valuable than him if they played for the Packers today. Most of them wouldn’t.

GM’s get paid to inexpensively acquire the right players for their schemes, sign them for good value (under a salary cap environment where there is only so many dollars to go around anyway), and hire the right coaches to coach them up and deliver the approaches, schemes and techniques that allow them all to be effective as a unit. Then they have to get a little bit lucky with injuries, catching opponents at good times in the season, etc.

In that context, Ryan Grant is practically the definition of success.

[Fritz]

In all this discussion, the thing that bugs me most is that McCarthy sees third and three as a passing down. That's depressing to me somehow.

[Bretsky]

In all this discussion, the thing that bugs me most is that McCarthy sees third and three as a passing down. That's depressing to me somehow.


not me; on 3rd and three we don't have the type of pounders to get that yardage more than our passing game would. I'd pass too

[Joemailman]

I don't think there's that many teams that run on third and three frequently anymore. I would venture that most teams see that as a passing down.

[LP]

In all this discussion, the thing that bugs me most is that McCarthy sees third and three as a passing down. That's depressing to me somehow.


not me; on 3rd and three we don't have the type of pounders to get that yardage more than our passing game would. I'd pass too

Thats the depressing part. Get that type and turn third and three from a passing down into a whatever we damn well please down.

[Fritz]

I don't think there's that many teams that run on third and three frequently anymore. I would venture that most teams see that as a passing down.

Dagnabbit, back when I was a kid we used to walk uphill to school - both ways. And we liked it.

[pbmax]

I don't think there's that many teams that run on third and three frequently anymore. I would venture that most teams see that as a passing down.

Dagnabbit, back when I was a kid we used to walk uphill to school - both ways. And we liked it.
I blame that foof Bill Walsh and his fancy flooding of the zone. Fullbacks don't catch the ball, they run people over!

[Fritz]

Dern right, PB.

Three yards and a cloud of dust!

[ThunderDan]

Dern right, PB.

Three yards and a cloud of dust!

Better hope that cloud of dust doesn't get you 2 and a half. :lol:

[RashanGary]

I'm about where Bretsky is on Grant. Good player, doesn't deserve probowl talk. Just not special at anything other than not fumbling and toughness (two very underrated aspects, mind you).


I think Vince had some good points about Grant's strengths really fitting well with what we do. For him, the Packers are the perfect fit. He's a legit starting RB with us, probably wouldn't be with most team.

I wish he had a little more elusiveness in the open field. Doesn't have to be Jones-Drew, Ray Rice or Chris Johnson, but just a touch more shiftiness. If he had that, we'd have a star.


I'm happy with Grant, but I'd be happy finding a star RB too. I surely wouldn't pass on a superstar because we have Ryan Grant. If I were the Titans, and I had the 8th pick, I'd have a hard time taking a perceived star RB. If I were the Packers, I'd nab him in a heartbeat. That's what I think of GRant. Not disappointed, but not content.

[vince]

I'm about where Bretsky is on Grant. Good player, doesn't deserve probowl talk. Just not special at anything other than not fumbling and toughness (two very underrated aspects, mind you).


I think Vince had some good points about Grant's strengths really fitting well with what we do. For him, the Packers are the perfect fit. He's a legit starting RB with us, probably wouldn't be with most team.

I wish he had a little more elusiveness in the open field. Doesn't have to be Jones-Drew, Ray Rice or Chris Johnson, but just a touch more shiftiness. If he had that, we'd have a star.


I'm happy with Grant, but I'd be happy finding a star RB too. I surely wouldn't pass on a superstar because we have Ryan Grant. If I were the Titans, and I had the 8th pick, I'd have a hard time taking a perceived star RB. If I were the Packers, I'd nab him in a heartbeat. That's what I think of GRant.
I can agree with that. If an absolute stud RB falls to us, no reason to pass him up, but I don't think you target the position as a need, except for adding a scatback/returner who can complement Grant and Jackson.