Grade the Last Decade of Packer Drafts

[swede]

Here is a decade's worth of draft history.

Rank them, grade them, comment on them, or ignore them and see what's going on in the Javon Walker thread.

Green Bay Packers Draft History


2009
Rnd Name College Note
1 B.J. Raji Boston College
1 Clay Matthews Southern Cal
4 T.J. Lang Eastern Michigan
5 Quinn Johnson LSU
5 Jamon Meredith South Carolina
6 Jarius Wynn Georgia
6 Brandon Underwood Cincinnati
7 Brad Jones Colorado

2008
Rnd Name College Note
2 Jordy Nelson Kansas State
2 Brian Brohm Louisville
2 Patrick Lee Auburn
3 Jermichael Finley Texas
4 Jeremy Thompson Wake Forest
4 Josh Sitton Central Florida
5 Breno Giacomini Louisville
7 Matt Flynn Louisiana State
7 Brett Swain

2007
Rnd Name College Note
1 Justin Harrell Tennessee
2 Brandon Jackson Nebraska
3 James Jones San Jose State
3 Aaron Rouse Virginia Tech
4 Allen Barbre Missouri Southern State
5 David Clowney Virginia Tech
6 Korey Hall Boise State
6 Desmond Bishop California
6 Mason Crosby Colorado
7 DeShawn Wynn Florida
7 Clark Harris Rutgers

2006
Rnd Name College Note
1 A.J. Hawk Ohio State
2 Daryn Colledge Boise State
2 Greg Jennings Western Michigan
3 Abdul Hodge Iowa
3 Jason Spitz Louisville
4 Cory Rodgers Texas Christian
4 Will Blackmon Boston College
5 Ingle Martin Furman
5 Tony Moll Nevada
6 Johnny Jolly Texas A&M
6 Tyrone Culver Fresno State
7 Dave Tollefson Northwest Missouri State

2005
Rnd Name College Note
1 Aaron Rodgers California
2 Nick Collins Bethune-Cookman
2 Terrence Murphy Texas A&M
4 Marviel Underwood San Diego State
4 Brady Poppinga Brigham Young
5 Junius Coston North Carolina A&T
5 Michael Hawkins Oklahoma
6 Mike Montgomery Texas A&M
6 Craig Bragg UCLA
7 Kurt Campbell Albany (NY)
7 William Whitticker Michigan State

2004
Rnd Name College Note
1 Ahmad Carroll Arkansas
3 Joey Thomas Montana State
3 Donnell Washington Clemson
3 B.J. Sander Ohio State
6 Corey Williams Arkansas State
7 Scott Wells Tennessee

2003
Rnd Name College Note
1 Nick Barnett Oregon State
3 Kenny Peterson Ohio State
5 James Lee Oregon State
5 Hunter Hillenmeyer Vanderbilt
6 Brennan Curtin Notre Dame
7 Chris Johnson Louisville
7 DeAndrew Rubin South Florida
7 Carl Ford Toledo
7 Steve Josue Carson-Newman

2002
Rnd Name College Note
1 Javon Walker Florida State
3 Marques Anderson UCLA
4 Najeh Davenport Miami (FL)
5 Aaron Kampmann Iowa
5 Craig Nall Northwestern State
6 Mike Houghton San Diego State

2001
Rnd Name College Note
1 Jamal Reynolds Florida State
2 Robert Ferguson Texas A&M
3 Bhawoh Jue Penn State
3 Torrance Marshall Oklahoma
4 Bill Ferrerio Wisconsin
6 David Martin Tennessee

2000
Rnd Name College Note
1 Bubba Franks Miami (FL)
2 Chad Clifton Tennessee
3 Steve Warren Nebraska
4 Na'il Diggs Ohio State
4 Anthony Lucas Arkansas
4 Gary Berry Ohio State
5 Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila San Diego State
5 Joey Jamison Texas Southern
7 Mark Tauscher Wisconsin
7 Ron Moore NW Oklahoma State
7 Charles Lee Central Florida
7 Eugene McCaslin Florida
7 Rondell Mealey Louisiana State

[swede]

Here is my ranking of the drafts, best to worst:

2005 ARod, Nick Collins, Brady Pop (Most of us HATED the first two picks)
2000 Bubba, Chad Clifton, Na’il Diggs, KGB, Tauscher (Foundation of the OL for a decade)
2009 Raji, Matthews, TJ Lang, Quinn Johnson, Brandon Underwood, Brad Jones
2006 Hawk, Colledge, Jennings, Spitz (Jennings!)
2008 Nelson, Sitton, Finley, Flynn (Finley!)
2002 Javon Walker, Pooper, AK 74
2007 Harrel, BJack, Rouse, Barbre, Crosby, James Jones (Back ups, a kicker, yawn)
2003 Nick Barnett and Nothing (Bad)
2004 Waste two picks, Trade up for a punter, and Scott Wells (Worse)
2001 Jamaal Too Small Reynolds and The Fraud (Disaster)

Man, looking at this it really is a challenge to build a team through the draft.
The trend is up, but even TT had a tough outing in '07. We need another '09!

[wist43]

2009 - Grade B

1 B.J. Raji Boston College
1 Clay Matthews Southern Cal
4 T.J. Lang Eastern Michigan
5 Quinn Johnson LSU
5 Jamon Meredith South Carolina
6 Jarius Wynn Georgia
6 Brandon Underwood Cincinnati
7 Brad Jones Colorado

It's early, but I like this draft a lot - Raji, Matthews, and Lang are all keepers; and Jones and Underwood both have upside.

2008 - Grade C-

2 Jordy Nelson Kansas State
2 Brian Brohm Louisville
2 Patrick Lee Auburn
3 Jermichael Finley Texas
4 Jeremy Thompson Wake Forest
4 Josh Sitton Central Florida
5 Breno Giacomini Louisville
7 Matt Flynn Louisiana State
7 Brett Swain

Finley saves this draft; Sitton has upside; Nelson is okay. Lee looks like a bust. 3 2nd round picks and you come away with a #3/4 WR... not good.

2007 - Grade F

1 Justin Harrell Tennessee
2 Brandon Jackson Nebraska
3 James Jones San Jose State
3 Aaron Rouse Virginia Tech
4 Allen Barbre Missouri Southern State
5 David Clowney Virginia Tech
6 Korey Hall Boise State
6 Desmond Bishop California
6 Mason Crosby Colorado
7 DeShawn Wynn Florida
7 Clark Harris Rutgers

Not a single starter. 11 picks and all TT garnered was a 3rd down back.

2006 - Grade B-

1 A.J. Hawk Ohio State
2 Daryn Colledge Boise State
2 Greg Jennings Western Michigan
3 Abdul Hodge Iowa
3 Jason Spitz Louisville
4 Cory Rodgers Texas Christian
4 Will Blackmon Boston College
5 Ingle Martin Furman
5 Tony Moll Nevada
6 Johnny Jolly Texas A&M
6 Tyrone Culver Fresno State
7 Dave Tollefson Northwest Missouri State

Loved Hodge coming out, but his knees were shot; Hawk is a JAG, we've all been fighting over that pick since it was made; Jennings and Jolly make this draft.

2005 - Grade A

1 Aaron Rodgers California
2 Nick Collins Bethune-Cookman
2 Terrence Murphy Texas A&M
4 Marviel Underwood San Diego State
4 Brady Poppinga Brigham Young
5 Junius Coston North Carolina A&T
5 Michael Hawkins Oklahoma
6 Mike Montgomery Texas A&M
6 Craig Bragg UCLA
7 Kurt Campbell Albany (NY)
7 William Whitticker Michigan State

Have to give it an A b/c Rodgers panned out... I hated the pick at the time, and given how pathetic he looked early on, it looked like a whiff by TT, but Rodgers has gotten it figured out. QB's are impossible to project, so I don't ever really try, but if you land a pro bowl calibur guy - the rest of the draft can be crap, and you're still ahead of the game.

2004 - Grade D

1 Ahmad Carroll Arkansas
3 Joey Thomas Montana State
3 Donnell Washington Clemson
3 B.J. Sander Ohio State
6 Corey Williams Arkansas State
7 Scott Wells Tennessee

Williams has been okay... Wells has pictures of Sherman, TT, and McCarthy in compromising positions - everyone else was crap.

2003 - Grade D-

1 Nick Barnett Oregon State
3 Kenny Peterson Ohio State
5 James Lee Oregon State
5 Hunter Hillenmeyer Vanderbilt
6 Brennan Curtin Notre Dame
7 Chris Johnson Louisville
7 DeAndrew Rubin South Florida
7 Carl Ford Toledo
7 Steve Josue Carson-Newman

Still hate Barnett... Hillenmeyer caught on with Chicago, everyone else was crap.

2002 - Grade B-

1 Javon Walker Florida State
3 Marques Anderson UCLA
4 Najeh Davenport Miami (FL)
5 Aaron Kampmann Iowa
5 Craig Nall Northwestern State
6 Mike Houghton San Diego State

Walker should be the poster child for wasting God given talent... what happened in his head??? It's a shame, that guy could have had one hell of career. Kampman exceeded everyones expectations.

2001 - Grade F

1 Jamal Reynolds Florida State
2 Robert Ferguson Texas A&M
3 Bhawoh Jue Penn State
3 Torrance Marshall Oklahoma
4 Bill Ferrerio Wisconsin
6 David Martin Tennessee

No analysis necessary :D

2000 - Grade B+

1 Bubba Franks Miami (FL)
2 Chad Clifton Tennessee
3 Steve Warren Nebraska
4 Na'il Diggs Ohio State
4 Anthony Lucas Arkansas
4 Gary Berry Ohio State
5 Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila San Diego State
5 Joey Jamison Texas Southern
7 Mark Tauscher Wisconsin
7 Ron Moore NW Oklahoma State
7 Charles Lee Central Florida
7 Eugene McCaslin Florida
7 Rondell Mealey Louisiana State

Clifton has had a very good career; KGB was very good off the edge for several years; Tauscher was always underrated IMO; Diggs and Franks were okay. Anytime you can solve both T positions for a decade in one draft... that's a good draft.

[Fritz]

Sherman mostly pooped the bed but a few gems here and there - Kampman, Barnett, Walker.

Ron Wolf's last draft - the Reynolds/Ferguson thing, was a fiasco.

[red]

man did sherman suck, and the end of wolf's run wasn't much better

really have to give credit to TT for rebuilding the roster from ground up, even if he did screw the pooch by drafting harrell and not drafting brandon flowers :wink:

[RashanGary]

That 2007 draft was a bad one for Thompson. There's still some development that could happen with Jones, Hall, Bishop and Crosby, but it's sure looking somewhere between an F and a low C at best.

[RashanGary]

Thompson has really turned this franchise around, and all of those good drafts don't really help immediately. They're just going to kick in now. If Thompson can stack a couple more good drafts, keep resigning his guys, make a move here and a move there. . . This team looks on track to a championship.

[wist43]

It is one thing to look back on drafts and judge them in hindsight... but, there can also be mitigating factors.

For me, it is all about winning SB's... some people like to be 9-7 to 10-6 every year, but with no real shot at winning it all; others don't care if we go from 12-4 to 4-12 as long as winning a SB is in that equation somewhere.

Back when Favre was nearing the end, I was all for selling out to take one last shot while we still had a franchise QB - hence my panning of Rodgers in the 1st round of 2005; now, 5 years later, we have a fairly solid roster again, Rodgers has a lot of tread left on the tires - so, standing pat and drafting straight away may make sense; but, in the interim we still have no titles.

That said, we may in fact be only a player or two away from a SB, and have perpetually been one of the youngest teams in the league for the past few years... does TT move up, for difference makers, or draft 17 guys again??

All in all TT has done a pretty good job... but still, we have no trophies to show for it. New Orleans was arguably futher behind us when TT interviewed Sean Payton... NO employed some different stategies - they have a trophy, we do not.

There is more than one way to skin a cat... where do we go from here??? It has been 13 years since we won the SB - the years have a way of ticking by.

[cheesner]

It is one thing to look back on drafts and judge them in hindsight... but, there can also be mitigating factors.

For me, it is all about winning SB's... some people like to be 9-7 to 10-6 every year, but with no real shot at winning it all; others don't care if we go from 12-4 to 4-12 as long as winning a SB is in that equation somewhere.

Back when Favre was nearing the end, I was all for selling out to take one last shot while we still had a franchise QB - hence my panning of Rodgers in the 1st round of 2005; now, 5 years later, we have a fairly solid roster again, Rodgers has a lot of tread left on the tires - so, standing pat and drafting straight away may make sense; but, in the interim we still have no titles.

That said, we may in fact be only a player or two away from a SB, and have perpetually been one of the youngest teams in the league for the past few years... does TT move up, for difference makers, or draft 17 guys again??

All in all TT has done a pretty good job... but still, we have no trophies to show for it. New Orleans was arguably futher behind us when TT interviewed Sean Payton... NO employed some different stategies - they have a trophy, we do not.

There is more than one way to skin a cat... where do we go from here??? It has been 13 years since we won the SB - the years have a way of ticking by.

28 teams have not won a superbowl since TT took over, the Packers being one of them.

I don't know of a single fan who is satisfied with 9 or 10 wins - the superbowl is the thing. If we were starting from scratch with a franchise like the Lions, 10 wins would be great. But we have higher expectations not because of our history, but because TT appears to be assembling a SB competitive team. And that is all you can really ask for. A team that can compete for the superbowl, too many variables in the equation to be confident of a SB. THe mightiest team of this generation, the Patriots nearly went undefeated, but in the end they came up short. Did that mean their GM was a failure that season?

Favre had a couple of seasons at the helm with a roster filled with stars and he only got it done 1 season. Another draft pick for a weapon here or there probably would not have helped. I can't help but think that if AR was our QB we probably would have won 2 or 3 SBs. We shall never know.

[RashanGary]

Just my opinion,

Ted has this team on track to be champions. It might not happen, but I think the Packers have as bright of a present and future of any team in the NFL. I like our chances.

[wist43]

It is one thing to look back on drafts and judge them in hindsight... but, there can also be mitigating factors.

For me, it is all about winning SB's... some people like to be 9-7 to 10-6 every year, but with no real shot at winning it all; others don't care if we go from 12-4 to 4-12 as long as winning a SB is in that equation somewhere.

Back when Favre was nearing the end, I was all for selling out to take one last shot while we still had a franchise QB - hence my panning of Rodgers in the 1st round of 2005; now, 5 years later, we have a fairly solid roster again, Rodgers has a lot of tread left on the tires - so, standing pat and drafting straight away may make sense; but, in the interim we still have no titles.

That said, we may in fact be only a player or two away from a SB, and have perpetually been one of the youngest teams in the league for the past few years... does TT move up, for difference makers, or draft 17 guys again??

All in all TT has done a pretty good job... but still, we have no trophies to show for it. New Orleans was arguably futher behind us when TT interviewed Sean Payton... NO employed some different stategies - they have a trophy, we do not.

There is more than one way to skin a cat... where do we go from here??? It has been 13 years since we won the SB - the years have a way of ticking by.

28 teams have not won a superbowl since TT took over, the Packers being one of them.

I don't know of a single fan who is satisfied with 9 or 10 wins - the superbowl is the thing. If we were starting from scratch with a franchise like the Lions, 10 wins would be great. But we have higher expectations not because of our history, but because TT appears to be assembling a SB competitive team. And that is all you can really ask for. A team that can compete for the superbowl, too many variables in the equation to be confident of a SB. THe mightiest team of this generation, the Patriots nearly went undefeated, but in the end they came up short. Did that mean their GM was a failure that season?

Favre had a couple of seasons at the helm with a roster filled with stars and he only got it done 1 season. Another draft pick for a weapon here or there probably would not have helped. I can't help but think that if AR was our QB we probably would have won 2 or 3 SBs. We shall never know.

Simply put, as I said, there is more than one way to skin a cat... as I've said, I've had my disagreements with TT, and at the end of the day we have no trophies to show for his tenure - but at the same time, he's done a pretty good job.

As for picking up a "weapon here and there"... perhaps that is what is needed at a given point. If signing Darren Shaper as a FA wins you a SB, would you say, "nah, we can wait til next years draft to fill the hole"??? and of course forego a shot at the SB??? I point to NO, b/c they were at a similar place that we were, and have since won a SB; whereas we're still sucking wind.

Nothing is ever guarenteed... it is just debatable - where are we now??? are we close enough??? do we move up??? do we trade a high pick for a player??? do we sign a big money FA???

I, in fact, do believe we are close enough... go out and fill holes, and try to make a run. You can only be the youngest team years on running for so long before you're old and gray as a fan, but still rooting for the youngest team in the league...

I'm not saying making a FA splash, especially this year... just saying we are close enough that some bold maneuvering might be in order to get us over the top.

[The Leaper]

It would be nice to see a repeat of the 2000 draft this year. We could use a couple OTs who will be anchors on the OL for the next decade.

[ND72]

2009
Rnd Name College Note
1 B.J. Raji Boston College
1 Clay Matthews Southern Cal
4 T.J. Lang Eastern Michigan
5 Quinn Johnson LSU
5 Jamon Meredith South Carolina
6 Jarius Wynn Georgia
6 Brandon Underwood Cincinnati
7 Brad Jones Colorado
Right now it appears this is the gem of Thompson's reign in GB. Raji looks legit. Matthews was a stud year 1. Lang appears to be a player. Quinn Johnson might not be kept off the fiel this year. I still like Brandon Underwood, and Brad Jones appears to be a steal. Since it's only been 1 year, I'm only giving this a B+, but will hopefully be an A+ in a few years.

2008
Rnd Name College Note
2 Jordy Nelson Kansas State
2 Brian Brohm Louisville
2 Patrick Lee Auburn
3 Jermichael Finley Texas
4 Jeremy Thompson Wake Forest
4 Josh Sitton Central Florida
5 Breno Giacomini Louisville
7 Matt Flynn Louisiana State
7 Brett Swain
Brohm could have been the key to this draft...but not for us. He could have been a guy we develop and trade like a Schaub or Hasselbeck. Sadly, he stunk. Jordy Nelson, I think, is close to breaking through and being a serious threat for us. Finley has star written all over him. Josh Sitton might be looked at in this draft as a Tauscher was looked at before. Patrick Lee can't stay healthy, and Jeremy Thompson is a huge question. Matt Flynn isn't great, but he has been decent as a backup. Luckily, we haven't had to find out (knock on wood). Grade here right now would be a B- with potential to be an A.

2007
Rnd Name College Note
1 Justin Harrell Tennessee
2 Brandon Jackson Nebraska
3 James Jones San Jose State
3 Aaron Rouse Virginia Tech
4 Allen Barbre Missouri Southern State
5 David Clowney Virginia Tech
6 Korey Hall Boise State
6 Desmond Bishop California
6 Mason Crosby Colorado
7 DeShawn Wynn Florida
7 Clark Harris Rutgers
Yeah, this hurt. This was almost a draft we had to have after 05 & 06...but all we got out of it was, well Mason Crosby. Harrell was a disaster, Jackson and Jones have been very serviceable, and it appears as though Bishop will be a good player. But the rest hurt. D+
This of the guys taken after Harrell, I would take any of these guys.
Leon Hall - Cincy
Michael Griffin - Titans
Aaron Ross - NY Giants
Reggie Nelson - Jags
Dwayne Bowe - Chiefs
Brandon Merriweather - Pats
Jon Beason - Panthers
Anthony Spencer - Cowboys
Joe Staley - 49ers
Ben Grubbs - Ravens


2006
Rnd Name College Note
1 A.J. Hawk Ohio State
2 Daryn Colledge Boise State
2 Greg Jennings Western Michigan
3 Abdul Hodge Iowa
3 Jason Spitz Louisville
4 Cory Rodgers Texas Christian
4 Will Blackmon Boston College
5 Ingle Martin Furman
5 Tony Moll Nevada
6 Johnny Jolly Texas A&M
6 Tyrone Culver Fresno State
7 Dave Tollefson Northwest Missouri State
No matter what anyone says, Hawk has been a solid player for us, and has signs of improvement in the 3-4. Colledge hasn't seemed to reach potential, Jennings is amazing, Hodge never reached potential, Spitz has done well, Blackmon has been solid in returns, Johnny Jolly seems to be on the brink of star level, and Tollefson has played well with other teams. Hawk, Jennings, and Spitz put this at an A-, Colledge drops it down, Hodge pulls it down. Grade would be a B/B+

2005
Rnd Name College Note
1 Aaron Rodgers California
2 Nick Collins Bethune-Cookman
2 Terrence Murphy Texas A&M
4 Marviel Underwood San Diego State
4 Brady Poppinga Brigham Young
5 Junius Coston North Carolina A&T
5 Michael Hawkins Oklahoma
6 Mike Montgomery Texas A&M
6 Craig Bragg UCLA
7 Kurt Campbell Albany (NY)
7 William Whitticker Michigan State
With Rodgers and Collins at the top, no matter what this draft has to be an A. If Murphy had not gotten injured, who knows where we'd be. Poopinga has over achieved, but Underwood and Coston never reached potential. A

2004
Rnd Name College Note
1 Ahmad Carroll Arkansas
3 Joey Thomas Montana State
3 Donnell Washington Clemson
3 B.J. Sander Ohio State
6 Corey Williams Arkansas State
7 Scott Wells Tennessee
Wow. All I remember was Donnell Washington was considered the steal of the draft....and he sucked. Scott Wells was all we got out of this draft? F

2003
Rnd Name College Note
1 Nick Barnett Oregon State
3 Kenny Peterson Ohio State
5 James Lee Oregon State
5 Hunter Hillenmeyer Vanderbilt
6 Brennan Curtin Notre Dame
7 Chris Johnson Louisville
7 DeAndrew Rubin South Florida
7 Carl Ford Toledo
7 Steve Josue Carson-Newman
YUCK. Chris Johnson finally came through, but for a different team, as did Hillenmeyer. Curtin and Peterson never reached potential. Barnett was a great pick. I remember when we took him all I wanted was Boss Bailey...i've learned the more I've wanted a guy and we drafted someone else, that's been good for us. D-

2002
Rnd Name College Note
1 Javon Walker Florida State
3 Marques Anderson UCLA
4 Najeh Davenport Miami (FL)
5 Aaron Kampmann Iowa
5 Craig Nall Northwestern State
6 Mike Houghton San Diego State
Kampman gives this an A. Walker, if he had stayed around gives it a high grade. Nall was a decent #3, Najeh gave a spark but never seemed to break free, and Anderson never reached potential. Grade of a B

2001
Rnd Name College Note
1 Jamal Reynolds Florida State
2 Robert Ferguson Texas A&M
3 Bhawoh Jue Penn State
3 Torrance Marshall Oklahoma
4 Bill Ferrerio Wisconsin
6 David Martin Tennessee
I mean seriously? F

2000
Rnd Name College Note
1 Bubba Franks Miami (FL)
2 Chad Clifton Tennessee
3 Steve Warren Nebraska
4 Na'il Diggs Ohio State
4 Anthony Lucas Arkansas
4 Gary Berry Ohio State
5 Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila San Diego State
5 Joey Jamison Texas Southern
7 Mark Tauscher Wisconsin
7 Ron Moore NW Oklahoma State
7 Charles Lee Central Florida
7 Eugene McCaslin Florida
7 Rondell Mealey Louisiana State
Tauscher and Clifton are the steals of this draft and made a foundation for years. KGB was a huge find also. Franks was ok, but never stellar. Na'il Diggs did what he could do, but was never outstanding. Steve Warren, Anthony Lucas, and Joey Jamison never became what they had really hoped for. Guys who made a difference makes this an A draft, couple guys drop it down, B+[/b]

[cheesner]

It is one thing to look back on drafts and judge them in hindsight... but, there can also be mitigating factors.

For me, it is all about winning SB's... some people like to be 9-7 to 10-6 every year, but with no real shot at winning it all; others don't care if we go from 12-4 to 4-12 as long as winning a SB is in that equation somewhere.

Back when Favre was nearing the end, I was all for selling out to take one last shot while we still had a franchise QB - hence my panning of Rodgers in the 1st round of 2005; now, 5 years later, we have a fairly solid roster again, Rodgers has a lot of tread left on the tires - so, standing pat and drafting straight away may make sense; but, in the interim we still have no titles.

That said, we may in fact be only a player or two away from a SB, and have perpetually been one of the youngest teams in the league for the past few years... does TT move up, for difference makers, or draft 17 guys again??

All in all TT has done a pretty good job... but still, we have no trophies to show for it. New Orleans was arguably futher behind us when TT interviewed Sean Payton... NO employed some different stategies - they have a trophy, we do not.

There is more than one way to skin a cat... where do we go from here??? It has been 13 years since we won the SB - the years have a way of ticking by.

28 teams have not won a superbowl since TT took over, the Packers being one of them.

I don't know of a single fan who is satisfied with 9 or 10 wins - the superbowl is the thing. If we were starting from scratch with a franchise like the Lions, 10 wins would be great. But we have higher expectations not because of our history, but because TT appears to be assembling a SB competitive team. And that is all you can really ask for. A team that can compete for the superbowl, too many variables in the equation to be confident of a SB. THe mightiest team of this generation, the Patriots nearly went undefeated, but in the end they came up short. Did that mean their GM was a failure that season?

Favre had a couple of seasons at the helm with a roster filled with stars and he only got it done 1 season. Another draft pick for a weapon here or there probably would not have helped. I can't help but think that if AR was our QB we probably would have won 2 or 3 SBs. We shall never know.

Simply put, as I said, there is more than one way to skin a cat... as I've said, I've had my disagreements with TT, and at the end of the day we have no trophies to show for his tenure - but at the same time, he's done a pretty good job.

As for picking up a "weapon here and there"... perhaps that is what is needed at a given point. If signing Darren Shaper as a FA wins you a SB, would you say, "nah, we can wait til next years draft to fill the hole"??? and of course forego a shot at the SB??? I point to NO, b/c they were at a similar place that we were, and have since won a SB; whereas we're still sucking wind.

Nothing is ever guarenteed... it is just debatable - where are we now??? are we close enough??? do we move up??? do we trade a high pick for a player??? do we sign a big money FA???

I, in fact, do believe we are close enough... go out and fill holes, and try to make a run. You can only be the youngest team years on running for so long before you're old and gray as a fan, but still rooting for the youngest team in the league...

I'm not saying making a FA splash, especially this year... just saying we are close enough that some bold maneuvering might be in order to get us over the top.
I wish winning the SB was as easy as a decision to spend money. To bad being a GM isn't that simplistic. There has to be consderation for team chemistry. There has to be a player available who wants to come to GB and he matches your system. Who knows? Maybe signing a bunch more FAs would 'get us over the top'. It just hasn't worked much in the real NFL. Yeah, Sharper and Brees worked out for NO. Picket and Woodson worked pretty good for GB also. There are 20 other teams who signed more FAs who did not do as well also.

[ND72]

It is one thing to look back on drafts and judge them in hindsight... but, there can also be mitigating factors.

For me, it is all about winning SB's... some people like to be 9-7 to 10-6 every year, but with no real shot at winning it all; others don't care if we go from 12-4 to 4-12 as long as winning a SB is in that equation somewhere.

Back when Favre was nearing the end, I was all for selling out to take one last shot while we still had a franchise QB - hence my panning of Rodgers in the 1st round of 2005; now, 5 years later, we have a fairly solid roster again, Rodgers has a lot of tread left on the tires - so, standing pat and drafting straight away may make sense; but, in the interim we still have no titles.

That said, we may in fact be only a player or two away from a SB, and have perpetually been one of the youngest teams in the league for the past few years... does TT move up, for difference makers, or draft 17 guys again??

All in all TT has done a pretty good job... but still, we have no trophies to show for it. New Orleans was arguably futher behind us when TT interviewed Sean Payton... NO employed some different stategies - they have a trophy, we do not.

There is more than one way to skin a cat... where do we go from here??? It has been 13 years since we won the SB - the years have a way of ticking by.

28 teams have not won a superbowl since TT took over, the Packers being one of them.

I don't know of a single fan who is satisfied with 9 or 10 wins - the superbowl is the thing. If we were starting from scratch with a franchise like the Lions, 10 wins would be great. But we have higher expectations not because of our history, but because TT appears to be assembling a SB competitive team. And that is all you can really ask for. A team that can compete for the superbowl, too many variables in the equation to be confident of a SB. THe mightiest team of this generation, the Patriots nearly went undefeated, but in the end they came up short. Did that mean their GM was a failure that season?

Favre had a couple of seasons at the helm with a roster filled with stars and he only got it done 1 season. Another draft pick for a weapon here or there probably would not have helped. I can't help but think that if AR was our QB we probably would have won 2 or 3 SBs. We shall never know.

Simply put, as I said, there is more than one way to skin a cat... as I've said, I've had my disagreements with TT, and at the end of the day we have no trophies to show for his tenure - but at the same time, he's done a pretty good job.

As for picking up a "weapon here and there"... perhaps that is what is needed at a given point. If signing Darren Shaper as a FA wins you a SB, would you say, "nah, we can wait til next years draft to fill the hole"??? and of course forego a shot at the SB??? I point to NO, b/c they were at a similar place that we were, and have since won a SB; whereas we're still sucking wind.

Nothing is ever guarenteed... it is just debatable - where are we now??? are we close enough??? do we move up??? do we trade a high pick for a player??? do we sign a big money FA???

I, in fact, do believe we are close enough... go out and fill holes, and try to make a run. You can only be the youngest team years on running for so long before you're old and gray as a fan, but still rooting for the youngest team in the league...

I'm not saying making a FA splash, especially this year... just saying we are close enough that some bold maneuvering might be in order to get us over the top.
I wish winning the SB was as easy as a decision to spend money. To bad being a GM isn't that simplistic. There has to be consderation for team chemistry. There has to be a player available who wants to come to GB and he matches your system. Who knows? Maybe signing a bunch more FAs would 'get us over the top'. It just hasn't worked much in the real NFL. Yeah, Sharper and Brees worked out for NO. Picket and Woodson worked pretty good for GB also. There are 20 other teams who signed more FAs who did not do as well also.


Redskins

[The Leaper]

Best of the last decade?

1. 2000 (A-) Any draft where you can produce two very high caliber OL players is tough to beat...even more so if both of those guys are OTs. Then you land a premier DE pass rusher in KGB too? Franks and Diggs were very solid players for 4-6 years in Green Bay as well. Was kind of a feast or famine draft...but those feast picks came at vital trench positions in the NFL.

2. 2005 (B+) Aaron Rodgers really fell into the Packers lap...and Thompson's first draft pick as a Packer GM will probably go down in history as his best. A true franchise QB, Rodgers alone makes the draft a winner...toss in Collins as well, and you have two Pro Bowl caliber performers. However, without much production after the top two picks, I can't say this draft was better than 2000.

3. 2006 (B) Hawk hasn't lived up to his draft position, but he is still a capable starting LB. Jennings is a very good WR, but probably not a superstar. Jolly provides excellent depth as one of the DL cogs. Spitz is a serviceable player on the OL. Probably the draft that provided the greatest amount in numbers to the roster...but the talent level wasn't quite as good as the others, even with more players to choose from.

[get louder at lambeau]

the Packers have as bright of a present and future of any team in the NFL.

This.

A GM's job is to get the pieces to be competitive for a Championship. Ours has done that. Now, with whatever additions come from the draft, it's up to the coaches and players to take the next step.

[ND72]

Just thought I'd remind us of this...

1989...

1 Troy Aikman QB UCLA Dallas Cowboys
2 Tony Mandarich OT Michigan State Green Bay Packers
3 Barry Sanders RB Oklahoma State Detroit Lions
4 Derrick Thomas LB Alabama Kansas City Chiefs
5 Deion Sanders CB Florida State Atlanta Falcons
6 Broderick Thomas LB Nebraska Tampa Bay Buccaneers
7 Tim Worley RB Georgia Pittsburgh Steelers
8 Burt Grossman DE Pittsburgh San Diego Chargers
9 Sammie Smith RB Florida State Miami Dolphins
10 Eric Hill LB Louisiana State Phoenix Cardinals
11 Donnell Woolford DB Clemson Chicago Bears
12 Trace Armstrong DE Florida Chicago Bears
13 Eric Metcalf WR Texas Cleveland Browns
14 Jeff Lageman DE Virginia New York Jets
15 Andy Heck T Notre Dame Seattle Seahawks
16 Hart Lee Dykes WR Oklahoma State New England Patriots
17 Joe Wolf G Boston College Phoenix Cardinals
18 Brian Williams C Minnesota New York Giants
19 Wayne Martin DE Arkansas New Orleans Saints
20 Steve Atwater DB Arkansas Denver Broncos
21 Bill Hawkins DT Miami (Fla.) Los Angeles Rams
22 Andre Rison WR Michigan State Indianapolis Colts
23 David Williams T Florida Houston Oilers
24 Tom Ricketts G Pittsburgh Pittsburgh Steelers
25 Louis Oliver DB Florida Miami Dolphins
26 Cleveland Gary RB Miami (Fla.) Los Angeles Rams
27 Shawn Collins WR Northern Arizona Atlanta Falcons
28 Keith DeLong LB Tennessee San Francisco 49ers


Who the hell did we even draft?
1. Tony Mandrich
3. Matt Brock
3. Anthony Dilweg
4. Jeff Graham
5. Jeff Query
5. Vince Workman
6. Chris Jacke
7. Mark Hall
8. Thomas King
8. Brian Shulman
9. Scott Kirby
10. Ben Jessie
11. Cedric Stallworth
12. Stan Shiver

I mean really? if not for rounds 5 & 6, I would poop all over this.

[The Leaper]

A GM's job is to get the pieces to be competitive for a Championship. Ours has done that.

I beg to differ.

Our sieve of an OL is not a championship caliber crew. The OL has been broke ever since Thompson showed up, and he has done little to fix it...and with Clifton and Tauscher breaking down, Thompson now has to find the right answer or risk getting his franchise QB killed.

Thompson has made more right moves than wrong...I'll give him that. He's a very good GM. Still, his approach to the OL over the last 3-5 years has puzzled and scared me. Thinking that he has to pull all the right strings now in this one offseason worries me...if he hasn't been able to get much of anything done in 5 years on the OL, why should I be convinced that he will suddenly get it right this year?

[ND72]

A GM's job is to get the pieces to be competitive for a Championship. Ours has done that.

I beg to differ.

Our sieve of an OL is not a championship caliber crew. The OL has been broke ever since Thompson showed up, and he has done little to fix it...and with Clifton and Tauscher breaking down, Thompson now has to find the right answer or risk getting his franchise QB killed.

Thompson has made more right moves than wrong...I'll give him that. He's a very good GM. Still, his approach to the OL over the last 3-5 years has puzzled and scared me. Thinking that he has to pull all the right strings now in this one offseason worries me...if he hasn't been able to get much of anything done in 5 years on the OL, why should I be convinced that he will suddenly get it right this year?

I don't put this squarely on Thompson. I've said since McCarthy came here he does not put a premium on his OL, and thinks he can get away with just throwing guys on the field. I am hoping McCarthy has learned.

[swede]

Just thought I'd remind us of this...

1989...

1 Troy Aikman QB UCLA Dallas Cowboys
2 Tony Mandarich OT Michigan State Green Bay Packers
3 Barry Sanders RB Oklahoma State Detroit Lions
4 Derrick Thomas LB Alabama Kansas City Chiefs
5 Deion Sanders CB Florida State Atlanta Falcons



Knowing everything I know I don't know who I would have picked.

I only know who i WOULDN'T have picked.

Believe it or not I think Derrick Thomas would have been the best fit in Green Bay.

[wist43]

Just thought I'd remind us of this...

1989...

1 Troy Aikman QB UCLA Dallas Cowboys
2 Tony Mandarich OT Michigan State Green Bay Packers
3 Barry Sanders RB Oklahoma State Detroit Lions
4 Derrick Thomas LB Alabama Kansas City Chiefs
5 Deion Sanders CB Florida State Atlanta Falcons



Knowing everything I know I don't know who I would have picked.

I only know who i WOULDN'T have picked.

Believe it or not I think Derrick Thomas would have been the best fit in Green Bay.

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

I was for 1) Thomas, 2) Barry Sanders

The reason I laugh, is b/c this is the one draft I missed on TV b/c I was in jail... got out of the can, went for a cheap breakfast, bought a newspaper, and read that the Packers had drafted Mandarich :lol:

GF ran off with a vacuum cleaner salesman, so I tied one on, and got busted for DUI :lol:

Hilarious in life's history... only after you age a bit can you laugh about such things...

Really, I can't think about the drafting of Mandarich w/o laughing :lol:

[pbmax]

Here is my ranking of the drafts, best to worst:

2005 ARod, Nick Collins, Brady Pop (Most of us HATED the first two picks)
2000 Bubba, Chad Clifton, Na’il Diggs, KGB, Tauscher (Foundation of the OL for a decade)
2009 Raji, Matthews, TJ Lang, Quinn Johnson, Brandon Underwood, Brad Jones
2006 Hawk, Colledge, Jennings, Spitz (Jennings!)
2008 Nelson, Sitton, Finley, Flynn (Finley!)
2002 Javon Walker, Pooper, AK 74
2007 Harrel, BJack, Rouse, Barbre, Crosby, James Jones (Back ups, a kicker, yawn)
2003 Nick Barnett and Nothing (Bad)
2004 Waste two picks, Trade up for a punter, and Scott Wells (Worse)
2001 Jamaal Too Small Reynolds and The Fraud (Disaster)

Man, looking at this it really is a challenge to build a team through the draft.
The trend is up, but even TT had a tough outing in '07. We need another '09!
I think everyone but KGB is still playing in the highlighted players from 2000. I know Diggs just signed and I think Bubba is still with the Jets.

[Little Whiskey]

I've been having a similar conversation with my uncle (who hates TT). He, for some crazy reason, thinks Sherman was more of a master at the draft than Thompson. his basic argument is that he doesn't want the facts to get in the way of a good debate.

[wist43]

I've been having a similar conversation with my uncle (who hates TT). He, for some crazy reason, thinks Sherman was more of a master at the draft than Thompson. his basic argument is that he doesn't want the facts to get in the way of a good debate.

I had been a fence sitter wrt TT for a few years, but am more in his camp than not... and, I agree that building thru the draft is the way to go.

At some point, you have to fill specific holes with front-line talent, to augment the good work you've done in upgrading your roster thru the draft.

What are we lacking now??? How far away are we??? Would signing, or trading for a shut-down corner put us in the SB??? Using CB as an example - Patrick Lee should be stepping into that spot based on his draft position, but he is a bust... so does TT draft 2 more CB's this year and wait 3 years for them to develop, the whole time other holes are popping up on the roster thru FA losses, injury, and retirement???

At some point you have to say, "we're close... let's fill these couple of holes with vets and try to make a run".

[get louder at lambeau]

A GM's job is to get the pieces to be competitive for a Championship. Ours has done that.

I beg to differ.

Our sieve of an OL is not a championship caliber crew. The OL has been broke ever since Thompson showed up, and he has done little to fix it...and with Clifton and Tauscher breaking down, Thompson now has to find the right answer or risk getting his franchise QB killed.

Thompson has made more right moves than wrong...I'll give him that. He's a very good GM. Still, his approach to the OL over the last 3-5 years has puzzled and scared me. Thinking that he has to pull all the right strings now in this one offseason worries me...if he hasn't been able to get much of anything done in 5 years on the OL, why should I be convinced that he will suddenly get it right this year?

He has done little to fix it? He drafted Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Moll, Barbre, Giacomini, Merideth and Lang, off the top of my head. I think there were a few more, so he has averaged about 2 OL draft picks per year- some good, some not. The OL has not been neglected as you claim. It still needs to be upgraded, obviously, but every team in the NFL has an area that needs to be upgraded. The Packers have as much talent on the roster as anybody, and they are mostly young and improving. We're in great shape.

[RashanGary]

Two years ago Pittsburgh had a sieve of an OL too. They won a SB with it.

I remember saying there was no way Pitt wins a SB with that OL after watching 2 of their games near the end of the season. They went on and won it.


We certainly need to upgrade our OL, but it's not the sky is falling drama some make it out to be.

[The Leaper]

He has done little to fix it? He drafted Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Moll, Barbre, Giacomini, Merideth and Lang, off the top of my head.

Exactly...and it still isn't fixed. Some of these guys have flashed some potential, some are complete flops. None of them is a difference maker. None of them have come in, taken a position by the throat and made it theirs.

8 draft picks...and our OL is no more settled today than it was 5 years ago. Granted, I'll lay some of the blame on McCarthy and Campen too...they are mediocre when it comes to teaching these kids IMO.

That is why I have little confidence that TT can suddenly pull a rabbit from the hat and mastermind a strong OL this offseason. He made lots of ATTEMPTS to fix it, but it still ain't fixed when you give up 51 sacks.

Continually hoping that your last 2-3 picks will finally turn the corner after 2-3 years in the league doesn't work. Plenty of kids come into the NFL from college and do just fine as rookies on the OL.

[swede]

Here is my ranking of the drafts, best to worst:

2005 ARod, Nick Collins, Brady Pop (Most of us HATED the first two picks)
2000 Bubba, Chad Clifton, Na’il Diggs, KGB, Tauscher (Foundation of the OL for a decade)
2009 Raji, Matthews, TJ Lang, Quinn Johnson, Brandon Underwood, Brad Jones
2006 Hawk, Colledge, Jennings, Spitz (Jennings!)
2008 Nelson, Sitton, Finley, Flynn (Finley!)
2002 Javon Walker, Pooper, AK 74
2007 Harrel, BJack, Rouse, Barbre, Crosby, James Jones (Back ups, a kicker, yawn)
2003 Nick Barnett and Nothing (Bad)
2004 Waste two picks, Trade up for a punter, and Scott Wells (Worse)
2001 Jamaal Too Small Reynolds and The Fraud (Disaster)

Man, looking at this it really is a challenge to build a team through the draft.
The trend is up, but even TT had a tough outing in '07. We need another '09!
I think everyone but KGB is still playing in the highlighted players from 2000. I know Diggs just signed and I think Bubba is still with the Jets.

That is a good argument for ranking the 2000 draft first, but many of those players are no longer here. It really is an impressive draft, though.

How many crappy teams have drafted one quarterback after another without finding an NFL starter? Just for the fact that TT-- by certain design, uncertain luck, or a combination of the two--found a quality NFL starting quarterback with the twenty-somethingth pick of his first draft I gave his 2005 pick the nod. If you don't take the critical need for a quality quarterback into consideration then I think the 2005 draft is third behind 2000 (1st) and 2009.

[wist43]

He has done little to fix it? He drafted Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Moll, Barbre, Giacomini, Merideth and Lang, off the top of my head.

Exactly...and it still isn't fixed. Some of these guys have flashed some potential, some are complete flops. None of them is a difference maker. None of them have come in, taken a position by the throat and made it theirs.

8 draft picks...and our OL is no more settled today than it was 5 years ago. Granted, I'll lay some of the blame on McCarthy and Campen too...they are mediocre when it comes to teaching these kids IMO.

That is why I have little confidence that TT can suddenly pull a rabbit from the hat and mastermind a strong OL this offseason. He made lots of ATTEMPTS to fix it, but it still ain't fixed when you give up 51 sacks.

Continually hoping that your last 2-3 picks will finally turn the corner after 2-3 years in the league doesn't work. Plenty of kids come into the NFL from college and do just fine as rookies on the OL.

I've been a pretty consistent complainer about the OL and TT's "spit ball" approach... no way can you defend 51 sacks given up, but he certainly has thrown plenty of spit balls at it :)

At least he switched to a 3-4 last year... and amazingly Rodgers turned out; so, I do have hope :D

[Fritz]

Man, as good as Wolf's 2000 draft was, that's how bad his 2001 draft was.

It does look like Thompson's pooper draft so far is the 07 draft.

Jackson, Jones....okay. But so far just okay. Harrell - we probably will never know. Crosby may be - may be - the saving grace.

[packerbacker1234]

I think the 2000 draft was vastly superior to the 2005 draft. We got collins and rodgers, all the rest of the players from that draft? Irrelevant.

In 2000 we got our tackles that are still solidifying our a line a decade later, we got a sack machine in KGB (people tend to forget just how good he use to be, simply because of how fast he fell off), Na'il Diggs was decent for us, and still playing as impact player in the NFL. Bubba Franks was a consistent Probowl tight end for us, even if he was really just an average Tight End that caught a lot of TD's.

Hard to argue with that draft line up.

[get louder at lambeau]

He has done little to fix it? He drafted Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Moll, Barbre, Giacomini, Merideth and Lang, off the top of my head.

Exactly...and it still isn't fixed. Some of these guys have flashed some potential, some are complete flops. None of them is a difference maker. None of them have come in, taken a position by the throat and made it theirs.

8 draft picks...and our OL is no more settled today than it was 5 years ago. Granted, I'll lay some of the blame on McCarthy and Campen too...they are mediocre when it comes to teaching these kids IMO.

That is why I have little confidence that TT can suddenly pull a rabbit from the hat and mastermind a strong OL this offseason. He made lots of ATTEMPTS to fix it, but it still ain't fixed when you give up 51 sacks.

Continually hoping that your last 2-3 picks will finally turn the corner after 2-3 years in the league doesn't work. Plenty of kids come into the NFL from college and do just fine as rookies on the OL.

Did I say he has fixed it, or did I take issue with your statement that "He has done little"? Come on now. And then this- "None of them have come in, taken a position by the throat and made it theirs." Um... Josh Sitton is in that list. He started every game this year (only his second year) at RG and played very, very well. He has EXACTLY "come in, taken a position by the throat and made it (his)." He even won the starting RG position as a rookie before spraining his knee. Spitz isn't exactly chopped liver either. Same with Colledge at G. He sucked backing up LT this year, but mainly played well at G over the last few years.

The interior 3 positions of our line are in great shape, with more players than positions to go around. Tackle is a problem behind the old timers. For some reason, many Packer fans choose to just generalize and act like the whole OL sucks. It doesn't, unless one of the starting tackles goes down. That means we lack depth at tackle, not that the OL sucks. Let's not overstate things.

[cheesner]

He has done little to fix it? He drafted Colledge, Spitz, Sitton, Moll, Barbre, Giacomini, Merideth and Lang, off the top of my head.

Exactly...and it still isn't fixed. Some of these guys have flashed some potential, some are complete flops. None of them is a difference maker. None of them have come in, taken a position by the throat and made it theirs.

8 draft picks...and our OL is no more settled today than it was 5 years ago. Granted, I'll lay some of the blame on McCarthy and Campen too...they are mediocre when it comes to teaching these kids IMO.

That is why I have little confidence that TT can suddenly pull a rabbit from the hat and mastermind a strong OL this offseason. He made lots of ATTEMPTS to fix it, but it still ain't fixed when you give up 51 sacks.

Continually hoping that your last 2-3 picks will finally turn the corner after 2-3 years in the league doesn't work. Plenty of kids come into the NFL from college and do just fine as rookies on the OL.

Did I say he has fixed it, or did I take issue with your statement that "He has done little"? Come on now. And then this- "None of them have come in, taken a position by the throat and made it theirs." Um... Josh Sitton is in that list. He started every game this year (only his second year) at RG and played very, very well. He has EXACTLY "come in, taken a position by the throat and made it (his)." He even won the starting RG position as a rookie before spraining his knee. Spitz isn't exactly chopped liver either. Same with Colledge at G. He sucked backing up LT this year, but mainly played well at G over the last few years.

The interior 3 positions of our line are in great shape, with more players than positions to go around. Tackle is a problem behind the old timers. For some reason, many Packer fans choose to just generalize and act like the whole OL sucks. It doesn't, unless one of the starting tackles goes down. That means we lack depth at tackle, not that the OL sucks. Let's not overstate things.And you forgot to mention TJ Lang, who played very well for a rookie who was forced to play several positions. The fact that they had him fill in at multiple positions tells me the staff thinks highly of him and he should be a fixture on the line sooner rather than later.

College has played outstanding football at times. Not sure why he stunk last season, but to ignore his highlights is not fair.

Remember what TT inherited. 2 very good Tackles, No guards (that he could afford) and an oft injured Center. Couple that with little to no depth and I don't know how you can say that the situation now is any worse. We now have solid interior players and some depth there. We have the same OTs and also a couple of OT prospects who we are not too sure about - yet. But considering 2 of our cast-offs started for other NFL teams last season, there must be some talent.

[Little Whiskey]

I think the 2000 draft was vastly superior to the 2005 draft. We got collins and rodgers, all the rest of the players from that draft? Irrelevant.

In 2000 we got our tackles that are still solidifying our a line a decade later, we got a sack machine in KGB (people tend to forget just how good he use to be, simply because of how fast he fell off), Na'il Diggs was decent for us, and still playing as impact player in the NFL. Bubba Franks was a consistent Probowl tight end for us, even if he was really just an average Tight End that caught a lot of TD's.

Hard to argue with that draft line up.

I think anytime you find a qb that has played to Rodgers lvl that makes it a great class. every other player could have busted and it would have been a A draft. the qb position is that important to a football team.