Vote for packerrats 2010 mock draft second round selection

[packrulz]

The second round is getting tougher to predict who TT will like, since we selected an OT in the first round, I'm going to include other "need" picks, hopefully of the top remaining players. I will include "other" if you don't want any of them.

[pbmax]

I voted for Sapp. Pass rush, I believe, is more important than any DB help. But I could be convinced there is a better choice than Sapp. But if the Pack go OT in Round 1, I will be rooting for OLB in the second.

[retailguy]

I think we should trade down. :P

[Joemailman]

To me, this is an easy one. Sapp is definitely the best player available as well as playing a position of need.

[mission]

I really like Morgan Burnett in this spot. Think he'd shine in our scheme.

Koa is intriguing as well (lots of guys really) but I'm hoping he's available later. Reminds me of a crazier Brad Jones from a value standpoint... not sure a 2nd fits but maybe his stock has been rising. Really haven't heard much about him outside of the Senior Bowl.

[Lurker64]

This is tricky, actually. For me, it comes down to Sapp vs. Burnett. While Sapp definitely fills a position of need better, and has the chops to be an impact OLB (whereas Misi's ceiling is more of a "tough, hardworking, dependable guy with some natural ability"), but on the other hand Burnett is an absolute steal at this point in the draft. I have Burnett as my #2 safety (after Berry).

So, hmm...

[RashanGary]

I voted Burnett. The reason, based on the things I've read, I think he's the best player and a very underrated player in this draft.

[RashanGary]

I don't think anyone will be upset if we end up with a LT and SS in the first two picks. That fills two needs with apparent best players available.

[packrulz]

I voted for Ben Tate, he played in a tough conference, he doesn't like being tackled or going out of bounds, and he catches the ball well, I think he could be better than Ronnie Brown. Him and Grant taking turns would be killer.

[Fred's Slacks]

Haven't voted yet as I'm on the fence. Seems like the group likes Burnett over Jones for a safety. Just curious as to the reason? Jones did not test great at the combine but I think the kid is an natural athlete.

Also why does nobody like Daryl Washington here? Is he a complete non-fit. Seems like he might be a bit slight but the guy looks like a corner when he moves in and out of his backpedal. Extremely smooth. Would he be terrible at the point? I would think he could be a decent pass rusher with great coverage ability.

Just looking for more opinios.

[Joemailman]

Haven't voted yet as I'm on the fence. Seems like the group likes Burnett over Jones for a safety. Just curious as to the reason? Jones did not test great at the combine but I think the kid is an natural athlete.

Also why does nobody like Daryl Washington here? Is he a complete non-fit. Seems like he might be a bit slight but the guy looks like a corner when he moves in and out of his backpedal. Extremely smooth. Would he be terrible at the point? I would think he could be a decent pass rusher with great coverage ability.

Just looking for more opinios.

Jones not only didn't test great at the combine, but it was probably a disaster for him. His 40 time was about 20th among safeties, and his 9 reps in the 225 were dead last among those who lifted. . That's not to say he doesn't have some potential, but he'll probably be available in the 3rd round.

[Fred's Slacks]

Haven't voted yet as I'm on the fence. Seems like the group likes Burnett over Jones for a safety. Just curious as to the reason? Jones did not test great at the combine but I think the kid is an natural athlete.

Also why does nobody like Daryl Washington here? Is he a complete non-fit. Seems like he might be a bit slight but the guy looks like a corner when he moves in and out of his backpedal. Extremely smooth. Would he be terrible at the point? I would think he could be a decent pass rusher with great coverage ability.

Just looking for more opinios.

Jones not only didn't test great at the combine, but it was probably a disaster for him. His 40 time was about 20th among safeties, and his 9 reps in the 225 were dead last among those who lifted. . That's not to say he doesn't have some potential, but he'll probably be available in the 3rd round.

I didn't realize it was that bad. It doesn't seem to show on film. It looks to me like the guy could benifit from a discipline weight training program. I read that he played baseball too. Is it possible that the kid didn't develop the strength some of these other guy got because he couldn't participate in the offseson strength programs due to Baseball? Seems like he might room to grow there. His shuttle and cone times look really good, I think he's a natural athlete with room to grow.

[packrulz]

I would like to resume the draft so if you haven't voted yet, please do, I will announce the pick in the morning. Anyone wanting to participate in round 3 let me know in the 2010 Mock Draft thread.

[Freak Out]

From what I've read on Jones if he commits to football he has the potential to be a game changer. He could be available later.

[Fred's Slacks]

If Jones might be there in the 3rd then I'm voting for Sapp. I'd love it if we could bolster the pass rush here and still get Jones in the 3rd.

[The Shadow]

I would be tempted to be proactive & draft the Hillside offensive tackle in the bottom of the 2nd - if I really liked him and had already found a great OLB, CB, or safety in the first.

[Brandon494]

Burnett has been extremely productive for the Yellow Jackets over the past two seasons. He is very active in both run support as well as defending the pass but also misses too many opportunities due to lack of effort, angles and proper tackling techniques. Burnett has good size and athleticism for the safety position which makes him effective in combination man and zone coverage’s. He is an instinctive player but takes too many chances which make him vulnerable to big plays at times. Burnett can bend to shed and ward off blockers but again is inconsistent in this area. His ball skills are good and show the ability to make plays in traffic. Burnett is a solid safety prospect that has some inconsistencies in his play that may concern some clubs in this year’s draft

Strengths

Burnett is a prospect with a really nice combination of size, strength and athleticism. Was a very productive player in the secondary for Georgia Tech. Does not have any durability questions. He plays with good intelligence. Exhibits the instincts to come up quickly against the run and jump routes in coverage. Has very good ball skills and is comfortable playing in deep coverage.

Weaknesses

Burnett is plagued by inconsistencies with a few areas of his game. Needs to play with the same high level of aggressiveness more often. Takes inconsistent angles, can over-run plays and is susceptible to double-moves and giving up big plays in coverage. Is also inconsistent run support

[jmbarnes101]

I would be tempted to be proactive & draft the Hillside offensive tackle in the bottom of the 2nd - if I really liked him and had already found a great OLB, CB, or safety in the first.

Heck, even if we already have a Tackle Veldheer might be a good choice. Between the drafted OT, Lang, and Veldheer we'd potentially have three new/future starters on our O-line to go with Sitton and either Wells or Spitz. You gotta figure 1-2 of them would be good.

I voted for Ricky Sapp. He's potentially the best player available and plays a position we could use him at. I also like Misi and while he's not a need Gronkowski at this spot would be a nice pick as well.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Why the hell am I the only one who voted for Chris Cook? He's clearly the BPA. We all know what TT does.

[Brandon494]

Why the hell am I the only one who voted for Chris Cook? He's clearly the BPA. We all know what TT does.

Sapp is the BPA IMO. Cook's best position in the NFL will be FS I believe, he is not that good at man coverage.

[Fred's Slacks]

Why the hell am I the only one who voted for Chris Cook? He's clearly the BPA. We all know what TT does.

Cook is tempting and if you're just going off of combine numbers then he might be the BPA. But I seem to remember reading that he doesn't always play to his measurables and he has some character red flags.

[Lurker64]

Morgan Burnett: No. 1, FS, 6-1, 210

Burnett is well-built instinctive safety who does a good job locating the ball in the secondary and then closing on it from a center field position. He exhibits good balance and footwork in his drop and consistently keeps his feet under him when asked to transition and get out of his breaks. Burnett gets up to speed quickly and showcases impressive range when asked to make plays sideline to sideline. He exhibits good click-and-close ability on passes in front of him and can consistently get his hands on the ball. He's an impressive ball hawk in the secondary. Against the run, Burnett does a nice job reading the action in front of him and then taking good angles toward the ball. He isn't a physical tackler and has a tendency to lower his head into contact, but he wraps up well and can fill running lanes on the inside.


Ricky Sapp: No. 7, OLB, 6-4, 248

A tall, long-armed athlete who plays a lot from a two-point stance, Sapp can play with his hand on the ground as well. He does a nice job extending his long arms into contact vs. the run and can close quickly on the football. He's a coordinated athlete who's at his best when asked to slide-step blocks in space and close on the ball in pursuit. But he isn't physical on contact and can be turned/sealed away from the ball inside vs. the run game. Sapp is a disciplined player who has a good feel for the game and consistently stays at home and finds the ball. He possesses a good first step off the snap and can coil up into his stance and fire off the ball. He gets into opposing linemen quickly and exhibits the balance to extend his arms and then slip blocks on the outside. He possesses an average initial jolt as a bull-rusher but has the instincts to feel where the double team is coming from and can spin away from pressure and get after the ball. But Sapp isn't quite as effective when his hand is on the ground. He allows his pad level to get too high when trying to turn the corner and doesn't look as sudden when changing directions out of his stance. He still looks like a guy who could rush the passer as a 4-3 DE, but ideally he could end up being an impact 3-4 OLB at the next level.

Between these two guys, IMO.

[The Leaper]

Burnett...I like the kid and think he could develop into a real threat fast with the talent around him in our secondary.

The potential to find a mid-to-late round gem as a situational OLB pass rusher is higher than finding a capable starting safety.

[Brandon494]

Where are you guys getting your info Morgan Burnett?

NFL.com gave him a grade of 2.8 on their site.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2010/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-position/dt-by-position-input:s

[Lurker64]

Where are you guys getting your info Morgan Burnett?

NFL.com gave him a grade of 2.8 on their site.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2010/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-position/dt-by-position-input:s

National Football Post (probably my favorite NFL news site) gave him a 6.9, ahead of both Taylor Mays an Earl Thomas.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/front-office-total-access-projections.html&position=fs

[Brandon494]

Where are you guys getting your info Morgan Burnett?

NFL.com gave him a grade of 2.8 on their site.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2010/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-position/dt-by-position-input:s

National Football Post (probably my favorite NFL news site) gave him a 6.9, ahead of both Taylor Mays an Earl Thomas.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/front-office-total-access-projections.html&position=fs

Sorry but that site's rankings are horrible.

Jarvid Best the #1 RB and Ryan Matthews the #8?

Charles Brown #3 OT and Trent Williams #9?

Daryl Washington #3 OLB and Sergio Kindle #8?

[Lurker64]

When you read a lot of mock drafts you get that impression, but when you actually read the scouting reports, Wes Bunting makes a ton of good points.

I mean, Trent Williams is projected by a lot of people as a high first rounder, but having watched him can you really disagree with:


A flexible lineman, Williams displays a decent initial kick-step off the ball and does a nice job initially remaining balanced toward the corner. But he isn't fluid enough to hold his own on the left side at the next level. At times, he looks top-heavy, lacking the type of range and athleticism to consistently reach the edge against speed rushers. Does a good job dropping his pad-level on contact and extending his arms into blocks. Lacking ideal power on his punch, he consistently takes the brunt of the bull-rush. Struggles to stay on blocks at the point of attack. Has a tendency to overextend in space and will stop moving his feet, allowing opposing lineman to quickly sidestep his block and get after the quarterback. Showcases the ability to cleanly redirect in pass protection and has good lateral mobility when asked to quickly slide inside on the counter move. Looks much more comfortable dropping his pad level on contact and anchoring when asked to mirror in space. Exhibiting good body control in the run game, Williams does a great job of turning and sealing opposing linemen away from the ball on bootlegs outside the pocket. He displays an above-average pop on contact, but he struggles to consistently stay on blocks through the play. He really seemed to struggle making the transition to the left side at Oklahoma this season. Looks like a right-side player only. .

[pbmax]

nfldraftscout.com Free Safety Rankings.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/FSrankings.png

[pbmax]

nfldraftscout.com OLB Rankings.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/olbRankings.png

[pbmax]

I don't think anyone will be upset if we end up with a LT and SS in the first two picks. That fills two needs with apparent best players available.
I will be disappointed. Disappointed that Skin and the other doubters of Bigby and Bush (the Dynamic Duo - Injured and Invidious) will have another arrow in their quiver of scorn. But I won't be upset, since I have NO IDEA if any of these OLBs can actually play and rush the passer at this level. Same with the safeties.

[Bretsky]

I don't think anyone will be upset if we end up with a LT and SS in the first two picks. That fills two needs with apparent best players available.
I will be disappointed. Disappointed that Skin and the other doubters of Bigby and Bush (the Dynamic Duo - Injured and Invidious) will have another arrow in their quiver of scorn. But I won't be upset, since I have NO IDEA if any of these OLBs can actually play and rush the passer at this level. Same with the safeties.


I'm with da Skin :!: on this one

[OS PA]

Enough is enough. I can't watch Ricky Sapp run away with this vote. The video on the guy is poor. He plays with decent enough leverage, but he does not get any push. He is stout at the point of attack, but is lacking in his ability to get to the quarterback. He is also a DE who has played some in a two-point, but that doesn't necessarily translate to a good LOLB. Brad Jones may not be the future, but he wasn't bad. What he lacked in run support and pressure he made up for in pass D. I worry that if we put a collegiate DE back there we'll just have another Kampmanesque liability.

Yes, I too would like another all-pro to be a bookend linebacker with Matthews, but we have to look at other fixes. Capers did not do a great job disguising Matthews blitzes, nor did we get much impact from our DL. The linebacker blitzes are the heart and soul of the 3-4 D, but if your DL is not getting any push then your linebackers behind them won't be doing much. Cullen Jenkins had 4.5 sacks last season and consistently beat his man, which caused them to focus more attention to him. This then allowed Matthews to get by and cause more pressure. The middle and the left side of the DL simply did not hold up their end of the bargain. We did have the best run defense in the league, and up until Al Harris went out we were giving our front 7 enough time to get to the QB, but our nickle and dime defenses simply sucked once we lost a starting corner.

With all this said. We drafted a solid OL in the first. I am not disagreeing that we need an LOLB, but there are more important matters to address.

Atari Bigby is decent when he plays, but we just can't trust him. So we need a competent SS.

It used to be the case that it was important to have competent cornerbacks. Then it was the case that you needed three competent cornerbacks. It's getting to the point where you need four. Last year we had three, and then we had two. The fall off behind Tramon Williams was absolutely horrid. When we had three starting quality corners on the field we were able to put Chuck on the slot and let him wreak havoc. It also let us protect our safeties and gave our front 7 more time to get to the QB. After Al went down we suffered because of it. So we need another competent CB.

Our DL depth is decent, but if one of the big boys goes down, that means one less body to keep everyone else fresh. So we need another competent DE.

We only have two running backs on the roster and neither of them have much in the game-breaking department. So we need a third RB.

We have depth at center, guard, we're developing depth at tackle, we finally have fullbacks that will allow us to keep two instead of three, we have a star tight end and depth behind him, we have star quarterback, but no depth behind him. So what are we left with in the need department?

Lets Recap.

One Corner
One Strong Safety
One Left Outside Linebacker
One Defensive end
One Running back
One Quarterback
One Tackle

I simply don't like Ricky Sapp with this pick. We just missed out on Dexter McCluster, sadly. If we're lucky, we can get a player like Roddrick Muckelroy in the third, but a player that won't last until the third, and a player that will help us in more than one area is flying under the radar right now for some reason.

So I suggest -

Javier Arenas - CB - Alabama




Arenas is a short, well-built player with good athleticism for the position. He is an aggressive player that is a willing run support defender as well as an effective blitzer off the edge. Not a physical tackler due to lack of size but will get ball carriers down. Javier uses his hands well to ward off blockers but again can be inconsistent in this area. He shows great instincts in coverage but lacks good balls skills to make the interception consistently. Arenas understands route progressions well and anticipates break points to make plays on the ball. Arenas will likely be best suited as a nickel back and special team’s contributor as a returner.

[packrulz]

With 27 votes in Ricky Sapp, OLB, Clemson is the winner, time to continue the draft, mission is on the clock...

Overview
After 22 career starts, Clemson had Ricky Sapp play more of a linebacker role in 2009 despite the fact that he was coming off a partially torn ACL in his right knee.

The position switch paid off. Sapp posted career highs in tackles (60) and tackles for loss (15), registering five sacks (tying his career high) and a forced fumble.

The rangy and explosive Sapp has flashed playmaking ability since backing up former the late Gaines Adams. He appeared poised for a breakout season in 2008, tying his career high with 10 tackles for loss at defensive end, before partially tearing the ACL in his right knee. Sapp's 10 tackles for loss in 2008 came in just 347 snaps, as opposed to the 620 at the same position in 2007.

Though he had 16 career sacks, Sapp's explosive first step makes him one of the more intriguing pass rushers of the 2010 draft. He'll struggle to add the weight necessary to remain at defensive end in the 4-3 scheme and isn't experienced enough for most teams running this alignment to project him to linebacker. He's best suited to be a rush linebacker in the 3-4 scheme. Only his injury history may keep him out of the top 50 selections.

Analysis
Read & React: Appears to have the instincts to handle the transition to linebacker. Has been asked to primarily rush the passer as a defensive end, but quickly locates the ball and has the agility and acceleration to change direction. Hustles downfield in pursuit.

Run defense: Lacks the bulk necessary to stack and shed as a defensive end. Can get bulled over in the running game and relies on his lateral agility and swim move to get past blocks, but too often takes himself out of the play. To his credit, Sapp hustles downfield and makes many of his plays in pursuit, showing the straight-line speed and agility necessary to move to linebacker.

Pass defense: Intriguing potential, despite his limited experience in coverage. Has a rare combination of straight-line speed and agility for his size. Drops into coverage as a zone defender from his defensive end position and shows good balance and the agility to re-direct in space. Good straight-line speed.

Tackling: Effective drag-down tackler from behind. Wraps up securely when taking on ballcarriers laterally or head-on. Flashes explosiveness as a hitter, but too often is a catch tackler. Needs to add strength, especially in his upper body.

Pass Rush/Blitz: Natural pass rusher. Experienced standing up and with his hand on the ground. Explosive burst and good flexibility to get under the tackle's reach and around the edge. Active hands and a good swim move to get past the initial blocker. Lacks strength to bull rush NFL offensive tackles. Relies on his agility to get past the blocker. Struggles to disengage once tied up.

Intangibles: Better athlete than football player. Will require an extensive Combine medical check after multiple injuries while at Clemson, including a partially torn ACL in his right knee in 2008. Top prep prospect who signed with Clemson over Oklahoma, Florida State and Georgia. Three-year South Carolina regional champion in the 100 meter (10.76), 200 meter (21.0), and 4x100 meter relay in high school.

Positives: Lanky build with plenty of room for additional muscle mass, especially in his upper body.

Negatives: Often generates pressure off the edge, but only has 12.5 sacks in 33 games. Lacks strength at the point of attack. Lacks the bulk to stack and shed blocks when properly engaged.

NFL Comparison: DeMarcus Ware, Cowboys

[Brandon494]

Lets Recap.

One Corner
One Strong Safety
One Left Outside Linebacker
One Defensive end
One Running back
One Quarterback
One Tackle

I simply don't like Ricky Sapp with this pick. We just missed out on Dexter McCluster, sadly. If we're lucky, we can get a player like Roddrick Muckelroy in the third, but a player that won't last until the third, and a player that will help us in more than one area is flying under the radar right now for some reason.

So I suggest -

Javier Arenas - CB - Alabama

Check out this draft, it covered every position you mentioned.

http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=20331

[bigcoz75]

Yippee an arm tackling OLB who shys away from contact. I'd love to see how the Barnett haters would react after seeing this guy if he was really the pick.

[mission]

Where are you guys getting your info Morgan Burnett?

NFL.com gave him a grade of 2.8 on their site.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2010/tracker#dt-tabs:dt-by-position/dt-by-position-input:s

From living about 3 minutes from the Georgia Tech campus, going to three games and watching a few more on television. The guy is everywhere around the ball on one of the shittiest defenses I've seen on a "major" team. Him and Morgan were by far the only players they had.

[RashanGary]

Good thing Ted is our GM, not us.

[Brandon494]

Good thing Ted is our GM, not us.

No kidding, drafting a FS in the second round when we already have a pro bowl FS we just resigned to a mutli year deal.

[Fritz]

If we were the GM we'd lose our picks because we couldn't agree.

[packrulz]

If we were the GM we'd lose our picks because we couldn't agree.
Just think what the real "war rooms" are like.

[Fritz]

Good point. And can you imagine you crappy you'd feel if you were a scout and you pounded the table for player X, and after a big blowup and fight you got your way - and then in his first year it becomes embarrassingly apparent the guy sucks? And what if the guy the other scout wanted bad played really great his first year?

Man, if you were a young scout and that was your first big "influence" your career would almost be over before it began.

Speaking of young scouts, I wonder how Evan Wolf is doing? I bet the kid was watching and breaking down game film when he was three.

[swede]

If we were the GM we'd lose our picks because we couldn't agree.
Just think what the real "war rooms" are like.

My impression has been that the TT war room plans out any acrimony.

There may be acrimony and table-pounding as the draft board is set and adjusted. I'm guessing TT listens to his scouts and explains why he wants to put one player over another. Their input is critically important and their views need to be trusted and respected, but in the end--and before the draft--players have to be stacked in a vertical order that makes sense according to some agreed-upon logic. When there are clusters of players the team has decided hold a similar value then TT will consider trades that allow more picks but ensure that he will get at least one player from the cluster of potential picks.

Make a plan. Stick to it. No table-pounding.

I don't know what happened in 2007. But I'm guessing that either TT listens to his scouts a lot more or a lot less since then.

[Fritz]

You're pretty smart for a primate, Swede. Heck, you're pretty smart for a person.

[swede]

I eat right, exercise, and get monolithic now and again.
http://scrapetv.com/News/News%20Pages/usa/images-2/2001-a-space-odyssey-ape-monolith.jpg

[Fritz]

I thought you got paleolithic sometimes, too.