Pack given C grade for past 3 drafts

[Brandon494]

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d817615c8&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

By Bucky Brooks | NFL.com
Analyst


Editor's note: Anyone in the NFL will tell you it takes three years to judge a draft. With that in mind, we asked analyst Bucky Brooks to take a look at how every NFL team fared over the last three years. In the third of a four-day series, he examines the AFC and NFC North divisions:

Minnesota: A
Total picks made: 18
Picks on current roster: 12
Touchdowns: RB Adrian Peterson, WR Sidney Rice, WR Percy Harvin
Fumbles: CB Marcus McCauley
Jury still out: S Tyrell Johnson

Analysis: The Vikings have quietly assembled a roster that is as talented as any in the league. The Vikings have put together their Pro Bowl-laden lineup by repeatedly plucking impact players in the draft's early rounds. Adrian Peterson, Sidney Rice and Percy Harvin have emerged as some of the best players at their respective positions, and the Vikings wisely selected them by adhering to the "take the best player available" premise that is frequently uttered by scouts. Though the team had more pressing needs at those selections, the team's brass opted to take the top talent on the board regardless of position. In doing so, the Vikings fortified positions of strength and upgraded their overall talent base. Given the team's ability to routinely come up with impact players in the draft's early stages while avoiding big mistakes, the Vikings deserve high praise for their outstanding success on draft day.
Brooks' draft grades
NFL.com analyst Bucky Brooks takes a look this week at how every NFL has drafted over the last three years:

Green Bay: C
Total picks made: 28
Picks on current roster: 22
Touchdowns: LB Clay Matthews, TE Jermichael Finley
Fumbles: DT Justin Harrell, S Aaron Rouse, QB Brian Brohm
Jury still out: CB Pat Lee

Analysis: The Packers' recent draft haul has been a mixed bag, as several of the team's top picks have failed to perform to expectations. Justin Harrell, Brian Brohm and Aaron Rouse are a few of the Packers' early-round disappointments, and their failures have resulted in the team lacking quality depth in key areas. Though the team hit it big with the additions of Clay Matthews and Jermichael Finley, the inconsistent contributions of their top picks (B.J. Raji, Brandon Jackson, James Jones and Jordy Nelson) weighs down their overall grade when evaluating the overall impact of their recent drafts. The Packers unquestionably have a very talented roster, but their most recent draftees have delivered more promise than production at this point.

Detroit: C-
Total picks made: 27
Picks on current roster: 19
Touchdowns: WR Calvin Johnson, QB Matthew Stafford, S Louis Delmas
Fumbles: DE Ikaika Alama-Francis, QB Drew Stanton
Jury still out: LB Jordon Dizon

Analysis: The Lions ushered out the Matt Millen era after seven dismal seasons, and much of their ineptitude can be tied directly to the team's poor drafts during that period. Although Millen correctly nailed Calvin Johnson as an elite talent, the majority of the team's picks have been unproductive in a Lions uniform. However, the tide may be changing under the direction of Martin Mayhew. The team identified its quarterback of the future with the selection of Matthew Stafford last season. In addition, the team picked up an impact safety (Louis Delmas) and tight end (Brandon Pettigrew) in the draft's early rounds. While those picks are enough to erase several years of incompetence, the Lions appear to be on the road to respectability behind a refocused approach to the draft.

Chicago: D
Total picks made: 30
Picks on current roster:19
Touchdowns: TE Greg Olsen, RB Matt Forte
Fumbles: LB Michael Okwo, DE Dan Bazuin
Jury still out: WR Juaquin Iglesias, DT Jarron Gilbert

Analysis: The Bears have been aggressive with their approach to the draft and free agency, but the dicey moves have not delivered positive results. Although the jettisoning of a first- and third-round pick landed the team a Pro Bowl quarterback (Jay Cutler), his first season in the Windy City left a lot to be desired, and without a bevy of early-round selections the team was unable to surround him with the requisite playmakers. While Greg Olsen and Matt Forte have justified their lofty draft status with solid production, the team's other top picks have repeatedly fallen short of expectation. Michael Okwo and Dan Bazuin are a few of the Bears' selections that can be considered busts. Additionally, the team is patiently waiting for contributions from its top picks (Jarron Gilbert and Juaquin Iglesias) from a season ago. The Bears have been bold and daring in attempting to upgrade their roster, but the result has been more sizzle than substance at this point.

[Lurker64]

Grading the last three drafts is ridiculous. It takes three years from the date of a draft to really judge it. We can be reasonably confident that the 2007 draft was a bit of a disaster, but we can also be pretty sure that the 2006 and 2005 drafts were awfully good.

The 2008 and 2009 drafts? Too early to grade. Sure 2008 doesn't look good right now, but if Finley and Sitton continue to get better and better, it will be a good draft regardless of what happened with the rest of those picks.

[Fritz]

A better analysis would have been the 04-07 drafts, for sure.

[CaliforniaCheez]

If he was only grading drafts why does he discuss free agency??

Why no mention of players past the 3rd round?
Sitton was a good pick as was Hall.

Beating out Donald Driver and Greg Jennings is a tall order for James Jones and Jordy Nelson.

The writer just did not stick to his assigned topic.

[Fritz]

It's an old argument but I'll bring it up again: I don't think Harrell was a "fumble" because he's an injury case. And the back injury did not come from college - this was no pre-existing condition TT knew about and took a chance on.

Sometimes it's just bad luck. Now, Rouse and Brohm - yeah, those picks were the big fumblerooskis. Brandon Jackson looks like a role player - so for a second round pick, meh.

[sharpe1027]

Green Bay: C
Total picks made: 28
Picks on current roster: 22
Touchdowns: LB Clay Matthews, TE Jermichael Finley
Fumbles: DT Justin Harrell, S Aaron Rouse, QB Brian Brohm
Jury still out: CB Pat Lee

Analysis: The Packers' recent draft haul has been a mixed bag, as several of the team's top picks have failed to perform to expectations. Justin Harrell, Brian Brohm and Aaron Rouse are a few of the Packers' early-round disappointments, and their failures have resulted in the team lacking quality depth in key areas. Though the team hit it big with the additions of Clay Matthews and Jermichael Finley, the inconsistent contributions of their top picks (B.J. Raji, Brandon Jackson, James Jones and Jordy Nelson) weighs down their overall grade when evaluating the overall impact of their recent drafts. The Packers unquestionably have a very talented roster, but their most recent draftees have delivered more promise than production at this point.


I won't argue whether the Vikings' past few drafts look better, because right now they do. That could still change over the next couple years.

I do think Bucky focuses too much on the success or failure of early draft picks. For example, where's the love for a Brad Jones, Sitton or Lang? I'm also not sure what was inconsistent about B.J. Raji, James Jones and Jordy Nelson. They provide good depth behind quality players. By comparison, Sidney Rice and Percy Harvin didn't have to beat out the equivalent of Jennings, Driver and Pickett. Plus, they may need to be re-evaluated after a year of having TJack throwing passes to them.

His analysis feels more like a justification for his grade rather than the the grade being based upon an objective analysis. If you give the Lions past three drafts a C-, I'd have to give the Packers a B.

[Tony Oday]

Green Bay: C
Total picks made: 28
Picks on current roster: 22
Touchdowns: LB Clay Matthews, TE Jermichael Finley
Fumbles: DT Justin Harrell, S Aaron Rouse, QB Brian Brohm
Jury still out: CB Pat Lee

Analysis: The Packers' recent draft haul has been a mixed bag, as several of the team's top picks have failed to perform to expectations. Justin Harrell, Brian Brohm and Aaron Rouse are a few of the Packers' early-round disappointments, and their failures have resulted in the team lacking quality depth in key areas. Though the team hit it big with the additions of Clay Matthews and Jermichael Finley, the inconsistent contributions of their top picks (B.J. Raji, Brandon Jackson, James Jones and Jordy Nelson) weighs down their overall grade when evaluating the overall impact of their recent drafts. The Packers unquestionably have a very talented roster, but their most recent draftees have delivered more promise than production at this point.


I won't argue whether the Vikings' past few drafts look better, because right now they do. That could still change over the next couple years.

I do think Bucky focuses too much on the success or failure of early draft picks. For example, where's the love for a Brad Jones, Sitton or Lang? I'm also not sure what was inconsistent about B.J. Raji, James Jones and Jordy Nelson. They provide good depth behind quality players. By comparison, Sidney Rice and Percy Harvin didn't have to beat out the equivalent of Jennings, Driver and Pickett. Plus, they may need to be re-evaluated after a year of having TJack throwing passes to them.

His analysis feels more like a justification for his grade rather than the the grade being based upon an objective analysis. If you give the Lions past three drafts a C-, I'd have to give the Packers a B.

Agreed, take away Favre, insert Jump Pass and Percy and Rice would be busts.

[mngolf19]

Green Bay: C
Total picks made: 28
Picks on current roster: 22
Touchdowns: LB Clay Matthews, TE Jermichael Finley
Fumbles: DT Justin Harrell, S Aaron Rouse, QB Brian Brohm
Jury still out: CB Pat Lee

Analysis: The Packers' recent draft haul has been a mixed bag, as several of the team's top picks have failed to perform to expectations. Justin Harrell, Brian Brohm and Aaron Rouse are a few of the Packers' early-round disappointments, and their failures have resulted in the team lacking quality depth in key areas. Though the team hit it big with the additions of Clay Matthews and Jermichael Finley, the inconsistent contributions of their top picks (B.J. Raji, Brandon Jackson, James Jones and Jordy Nelson) weighs down their overall grade when evaluating the overall impact of their recent drafts. The Packers unquestionably have a very talented roster, but their most recent draftees have delivered more promise than production at this point.


I won't argue whether the Vikings' past few drafts look better, because right now they do. That could still change over the next couple years.

I do think Bucky focuses too much on the success or failure of early draft picks. For example, where's the love for a Brad Jones, Sitton or Lang? I'm also not sure what was inconsistent about B.J. Raji, James Jones and Jordy Nelson. They provide good depth behind quality players. By comparison, Sidney Rice and Percy Harvin didn't have to beat out the equivalent of Jennings, Driver and Pickett. Plus, they may need to be re-evaluated after a year of having TJack throwing passes to them.

His analysis feels more like a justification for his grade rather than the the grade being based upon an objective analysis. If you give the Lions past three drafts a C-, I'd have to give the Packers a B.

Agreed, take away Favre, insert Jump Pass and Percy and Rice would be busts.

Yeah, right. :roll: Or they may never experiece that. Judging based on that is shortsighted. Would Jennings be a bust without Favre or Rodgers throwing to him? Based on this analysis, yes.

[sharpe1027]

Percy and Rice were good last year and are rightfully listed as very good draft picks.

It is just tough to judge them solely on last year's performance, and they should be reevaluated if their performances take a significant dip with a new QB at the helm and a year for teams to view film on them.

[ThunderDan]

Green Bay: C
Total picks made: 28
Picks on current roster: 22
Touchdowns: LB Clay Matthews, TE Jermichael Finley
Fumbles: DT Justin Harrell, S Aaron Rouse, QB Brian Brohm
Jury still out: CB Pat Lee

Analysis: The Packers' recent draft haul has been a mixed bag, as several of the team's top picks have failed to perform to expectations. Justin Harrell, Brian Brohm and Aaron Rouse are a few of the Packers' early-round disappointments, and their failures have resulted in the team lacking quality depth in key areas. Though the team hit it big with the additions of Clay Matthews and Jermichael Finley, the inconsistent contributions of their top picks (B.J. Raji, Brandon Jackson, James Jones and Jordy Nelson) weighs down their overall grade when evaluating the overall impact of their recent drafts. The Packers unquestionably have a very talented roster, but their most recent draftees have delivered more promise than production at this point.


I won't argue whether the Vikings' past few drafts look better, because right now they do. That could still change over the next couple years.

I do think Bucky focuses too much on the success or failure of early draft picks. For example, where's the love for a Brad Jones, Sitton or Lang? I'm also not sure what was inconsistent about B.J. Raji, James Jones and Jordy Nelson. They provide good depth behind quality players. By comparison, Sidney Rice and Percy Harvin didn't have to beat out the equivalent of Jennings, Driver and Pickett. Plus, they may need to be re-evaluated after a year of having TJack throwing passes to them.

His analysis feels more like a justification for his grade rather than the the grade being based upon an objective analysis. If you give the Lions past three drafts a C-, I'd have to give the Packers a B.

Agreed, take away Favre, insert Jump Pass and Percy and Rice would be busts.

Yeah, right. :roll: Or they may never experiece that. Judging based on that is shortsighted. Would Jennings be a bust without Favre or Rodgers throwing to him? Based on this analysis, yes.

Of course the Packers seemed to grow QBs. Favre, Rodgers, Hasselbeck, Brooks, Brunnell. All productive NFL Qbs. Over that same period I guess the Vikings can claim Culpepper as their own, maybe TJack. :oops:

[Fritz]

I think Rice is a heckuva receiver. I'm not sold on Harvin after one year, but he looks promising if he can stay on the field.

I agree with the earlier comment that later round picks that work out don't seem to get much credit. What was Sitton, a fourth rounder? The guy was way, way solid last year, but no love for him?

[Brandon494]

Harvin looks like the next Steve Smith to me.

[Fritz]

Steve Smith? The Michigan QB who was there back in the day when I was roaming the campus?

nah, I think Harvin's a lot better than that.

[Scott Campbell]

Harvin looked great - especially for a rook. They can't like all the migraines though. Rice has looked pretty good to me since late in his first year. And Berrian makes a hell of a #3.

[Bretsky]

I think Rice is a heckuva receiver. I'm not sold on Harvin after one year, but he looks promising if he can stay on the field.

I agree with the earlier comment that later round picks that work out don't seem to get much credit. What was Sitton, a fourth rounder? The guy was way, way solid last year, but no love for him?


Lots of hating on Sydney Rice in here a couple years ago and some sillies were noting how much better Jones will be. That dude is starting to realize some of his light out talent.

SITTON......that guy is going to give us what we wanted from a legit first round pick
Can't overlook a guy who was going to start right off the bat as a rookie and was probably our top OL last year.

[mngolf19]

Green Bay: C
Total picks made: 28
Picks on current roster: 22
Touchdowns: LB Clay Matthews, TE Jermichael Finley
Fumbles: DT Justin Harrell, S Aaron Rouse, QB Brian Brohm
Jury still out: CB Pat Lee

Analysis: The Packers' recent draft haul has been a mixed bag, as several of the team's top picks have failed to perform to expectations. Justin Harrell, Brian Brohm and Aaron Rouse are a few of the Packers' early-round disappointments, and their failures have resulted in the team lacking quality depth in key areas. Though the team hit it big with the additions of Clay Matthews and Jermichael Finley, the inconsistent contributions of their top picks (B.J. Raji, Brandon Jackson, James Jones and Jordy Nelson) weighs down their overall grade when evaluating the overall impact of their recent drafts. The Packers unquestionably have a very talented roster, but their most recent draftees have delivered more promise than production at this point.


I won't argue whether the Vikings' past few drafts look better, because right now they do. That could still change over the next couple years.

I do think Bucky focuses too much on the success or failure of early draft picks. For example, where's the love for a Brad Jones, Sitton or Lang? I'm also not sure what was inconsistent about B.J. Raji, James Jones and Jordy Nelson. They provide good depth behind quality players. By comparison, Sidney Rice and Percy Harvin didn't have to beat out the equivalent of Jennings, Driver and Pickett. Plus, they may need to be re-evaluated after a year of having TJack throwing passes to them.

His analysis feels more like a justification for his grade rather than the the grade being based upon an objective analysis. If you give the Lions past three drafts a C-, I'd have to give the Packers a B.

Agreed, take away Favre, insert Jump Pass and Percy and Rice would be busts.

Yeah, right. :roll: Or they may never experiece that. Judging based on that is shortsighted. Would Jennings be a bust without Favre or Rodgers throwing to him? Based on this analysis, yes.

Of course the Packers seemed to grow QBs. Favre, Rodgers, Hasselbeck, Brooks, Brunnell. All productive NFL Qbs. Over that same period I guess the Vikings can claim Culpepper as their own, maybe TJack. :oops:

It's weird about QB's with the Vikes and Pack. Pack have done so well with picking them and the Vikes either haven't or haven't tried depending on the current regime. They just keep plugging in whomever and when surrounded by talent it has gotten them many wins. Just not the big one.

[twoseven]

i wish we drafted o-lineman and punters like the vikings did.

[DonHutson]

If Jones and Nelson were putting up bigger numbers to qualify as "not kinda sucking" or whatever tag was applied, that would mean Driver hit the wall and Jennings flopped after signing a big contract. Would that be preferable?

I mean Rodgers only threw for 4,000+ two years in a row. How much more can you expect from the passing game? Bitching that the #3 and #4 WR's aren't more productive is basically bitching that Rodgers didn't throw for 5,000.

I'll grant you that Jones could be more consistent, but all in all both he and Nelson are pretty good players.

One could say that Ted should've drafted at other positions high if these two weren't going to start, but you need depth there.

I also think an offseason in Green Bay, a full training camp, and better luck with nagging injuries will do wonders for Raji. I expect a huge jump from him. When he was healthy you could see the amazing quickness the guy has. With a little technique work, the guy will be a beast.

[Brandon494]

Honestly I don't see much from Jones or Nelson. I would not want either to be the #2 WR when DD retires.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Are you kidding me? Nelson is a model of consistancy. I doubt he has had many drops these last two years(I tried finding the stat but can't). James Jones has flashed a lot of ability as well. These guys just arent getting the touches because they're behind Greg and DD, and now Jermichael.

[Brandon494]

Are you kidding me? Nelson is a model of consistancy. I doubt he has had many drops these last two years(I tried finding the stat but can't). James Jones has flashed a lot of ability as well. These guys just arent getting the touches because they're behind Greg and DD, and now Jermichael.

No I'm not kidding, they are not that good.

Steve Breaston had to play behind Fitzgerald and Bolden and he still put up big numbers. I'm not saying they are horrible but I just don't think they are future starters in the NFL.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Are you kidding me? Nelson is a model of consistancy. I doubt he has had many drops these last two years(I tried finding the stat but can't). James Jones has flashed a lot of ability as well. These guys just arent getting the touches because they're behind Greg and DD, and now Jermichael.

No I'm not kidding, they are not that good.

Steve Breaston had to play behind Fitzgerald and Bolden and he still put up big numbers. I'm not saying they are horrible but I just don't think they are future starters in the NFL.

They were also 28th in the league in rushing. I promise you Breaston had more passes thrown his way than Nelson/Jones combined. Not because of his talent, but because of the offensive system he was in.

[Brandon494]

Are you kidding me? Nelson is a model of consistancy. I doubt he has had many drops these last two years(I tried finding the stat but can't). James Jones has flashed a lot of ability as well. These guys just arent getting the touches because they're behind Greg and DD, and now Jermichael.

No I'm not kidding, they are not that good.

Steve Breaston had to play behind Fitzgerald and Bolden and he still put up big numbers. I'm not saying they are horrible but I just don't think they are future starters in the NFL.

They were also 28th in the league in rushing. I promise you Breaston had more passes thrown his way than Nelson/Jones combined. Not because of his talent, but because of the offensive system he was in.

So your saying we aren't a pass first team?

Nelson and Jones are not that good, has nothing to do with how many passes are thrown their way.

[Tony Oday]

Are you kidding me? Nelson is a model of consistancy. I doubt he has had many drops these last two years(I tried finding the stat but can't). James Jones has flashed a lot of ability as well. These guys just arent getting the touches because they're behind Greg and DD, and now Jermichael.

No I'm not kidding, they are not that good.

Steve Breaston had to play behind Fitzgerald and Bolden and he still put up big numbers. I'm not saying they are horrible but I just don't think they are future starters in the NFL.

They were also 28th in the league in rushing. I promise you Breaston had more passes thrown his way than Nelson/Jones combined. Not because of his talent, but because of the offensive system he was in.

So your saying we aren't a pass first team?

Nelson and Jones are not that good, has nothing to do with how many passes are thrown their way.

rec yards avg avg/g long TDs
Jordy Nelson GB WR 22 320 14.5 24.6 51 2
James Jones GB WR 32 440 13.8 27.5 74T 5
Jermichael Finley GB TE 55 676 12.3 52.0 62T 5
Steve Breaston ARI WR 55 712 12.9 47.5 45 3
Early Doucet ARI WR 17 214 12.6 23.8 29 1
Jerheme Urban ARI WR 18 186 10.3 18.6 40 0

Really not that big of a difference if you take the three and four WR since JJ and Nelson split time at 3. Also The Cards dont have a TE so i added Finley...looks like if JJ or Nelson could beat one of the other out they would have similar numbers to Breaston.

[The Leaper]

Honestly I don't see much from Jones or Nelson. I would not want either to be the #2 WR when DD retires.

Then you aren't looking too closely. Both are good enough to be #2 WRs...especially with Rodgers tossing the ball. They are every bit as talented as Robert Brooks or Antonio Freeman...who were made to look better than they were by Favre.

Nelson and Jones simply don't get much of a chance with Driver, Jennings and Finley being such huge threats on the field. We don't run too many 4 and 5 WR sets with an OL that is giving up 50 sacks a year.

[RashanGary]

If Rodgers throws for 4,400 yards next year. . .

1200 Jennings
1000 Finley
800 Driver
350 Various RB's

That leaves 1050 yard for everyone else.

Donald Lee and Havner or whoever else should get 300 plus

Now we're down to 750




Jones and Nelson just aren't going to get as many chances as some other players. Like Leaper said, I think either could be a #2 receiver, just not on this team. I think the Packers would be smart to get one more year out of Driver, then move on with the young guys. Driver will be 35 next year. He'll probably be good for at least another year, but do we really need to be starting a 36, 37, 38 yr old WR? At some point, I think I'd rather see Jones and Nelson in their prime than Driver at the end of his career.

[Scott Campbell]

Are you kidding me? Nelson is a model of consistancy. I doubt he has had many drops these last two years(I tried finding the stat but can't). James Jones has flashed a lot of ability as well. These guys just arent getting the touches because they're behind Greg and DD, and now Jermichael.

No I'm not kidding, they are not that good.

Steve Breaston had to play behind Fitzgerald and Bolden and he still put up big numbers. I'm not saying they are horrible but I just don't think they are future starters in the NFL.



First 3 years:

Driver 520 yards 3 TD's
Jones 1390 yards 8 TD's

First 2 years:

Driver 352 yards 2 TD's
Nelson 686 yards 4 TD's

[Scott Campbell]

First 3 years:

Miles Austin 354 yards 2 TD's
James Jones 1390 yards 8 TD's

First 2 years:

Miles Austin 76 yards 0 TD's
Jordy Nelson 686 yards 4 TD's

[Scott Campbell]

First 3 years:

Vincent Jackson 1135 yards 9 TD's
James Jones 1390 yards 8 TD's

First 2 years:

Vincent Jackson 512 yards 6 TD's
Jordy Nelson 686 yards 4 TD's

[Scott Campbell]

First 3 years:

Wes Welker 1121 yards 1 TD's
James Jones 1390 yards 8 TD's

First 2 years:

Wes Welker 434 yards 0 TD's
Jordy Nelson 686 yards 4 TD's

[Scott Campbell]

First 3 years:

Derick Mason 608 yards 3 TD's
James Jones 1390 yards 8 TD's

First 2 years:

Derick Mason 519 yards 3 TD's
Jordy Nelson 686 yards 4 TD's

[Scott Campbell]

So Jones and Nelson are off to faster career starts than 2 of the top 3 receivers from this year, and 5 of the top 22.

I'm not quite ready to write them off yet.

[Bretsky]

Honestly I don't see much from Jones or Nelson. I would not want either to be the #2 WR when DD retires.

Then you aren't looking too closely. Both are good enough to be #2 WRs...especially with Rodgers tossing the ball. They are every bit as talented as Robert Brooks or Antonio Freeman...who were made to look better than they were by Favre.

Nelson and Jones simply don't get much of a chance with Driver, Jennings and Finley being such huge threats on the field. We don't run too many 4 and 5 WR sets with an OL that is giving up 50 sacks a year.


Everybody underestimes how good Robert Brooks was becoming. He's beter than both of those guys; I wouldn't even compare them yet. Also think Freeman was better as well although he seemed to lose his fire fast after he got the big deal.
Maybe too much partying with Sam Cassell ?

They're both decent. They're decent. I don't think either would tear things up as a #2 but both might be alright there as long as there are plenty of weapons around them that are better to take the focus away.

It's a solid debate to figure out who is going to be better.

[Bretsky]

So Jones and Nelson are off to faster career starts than 2 of the top 3 receivers from this year, and 5 of the top 22.

I'm not quite ready to write them off yet.


Those are good stats SC; thanks for posting them.....I'd be curious to know how many passing yards the teams had with those other players.

A couple things strike me. Wes Welker...poor guy was on the Dolphins and I think they were pretty bad when he was there the first three years.

I think Mason was on the run first team as well. It's surprising he had even that many catches in early years

Driver, coming out of college, was a project and not nearly as NFL ready as either guy. He didn't have a ton of opportunity early on....but that dude has improved as much as any NFL player I've ever seen from his rookie year.

Vincent Jackson...plenty thought they saw star potential in him...but his early years were pretty LT dominated I think. But I think he had Rivers or Brees so on a legit passing team.

Miles Austin...gosh I can't even remember that guy in college. In his first two years was he even in the top 4 on the Cowboyz ? That guy has come a ways. I think he's a burner though.

JJ seems like he'd have the most upside but he's been a flasher so far. I'm not sure why he can't take the bull and run with his talent

Jordy is just steady Eddie. He's decent. I'd much rather have both of these guys as very good #3 options than starters at this point.

Plenty of time for either to emerge.

[RashanGary]

I've seen enough talent in both of them already to think they'd be solid #2's. The average #2 gets about 800 yards per season. Jones almost had that in his rookie year behind Driver and Jennings.

Both of these guys have talent. We just think around here that #2 receivers are 1000 yd per season players and that just isn't the case for the most part.


I'm glad we have them. I'd like to see this as Drivers last year. I don't know if either as as good as Driver was last year, but I think both will be as good as Driver two years from now and that's when the decision needs to get made. Not this year, the year after.

[Gunakor]

We are a pass first team, but not a pass only team. We have, after all, had a top 10 rusher in each of the past 2 seasons. Would have been 3 straight had Grant been inserted as our starter earlier than week 9 of the 2007 season.

It's a poor comparison between Jones/Nelson and Breaston as they are in different offenses and have different levels of responsibility within those offenses. Neither Jones nor Nelson have ever been the target of as many passes as Breaston has been the past 2 years, so it's silly to expect similar numbers.

Either would make a fine #2 on our team. Nelson would make a fine #2 on many teams around the league, especially one that already had a speed guy as a #1. He doesn't drop very many passes at all. Isn't going to be much of a deep threat, but could develop into one of the premier possession receivers in the game. Jones drops more balls, but he's strong as an ox and has a bit of speed. He's tough to bring down once he has the ball in his hands. Very much like Driver in that sense. Don't know how many other teams would play him as a #2, I'd have to imagine a few would, but he'd make a very serviceable #2 in Green Bay and a FANTASTIC #3.

[twoseven]

just watching them play, both receiving and in the return game, Breaston looks head and shoulders above Jordy. forget stats for a minute, Breaston shows the tools you want in a WR and can take a hit. Jordy is a blue collar big guy with great hands, but without the quickness you want as a return man. you can't teach that, and as Jordy matures he is more likely to get bigger, not smaller. he reminds me more of Freeman than Brooks.

Jones is not even in this conversation. To me he does not have great hands, and is minus the quickness and the breakaway speed. i won't deny he has bobbed and weaved into the endzone on occasion, but he is never going to be what Driver is in the open field.

personally, i wouldn't mind seeing Jordy continue to bulk up and possibly make a switch to TE. at 6-3 and 220 (lee is 6-4 and 245), he is not hoplessly out of range to be the right weight. not sure if this could work out, but thinking of Finley and and about a 240+ lb nelson as bookends ala Chmura and Jackson 96' is a nice image.

feel free to tell me how dumb this sounds now.

[Fritz]

Honestly I don't see much from Jones or Nelson. I would not want either to be the #2 WR when DD retires.

Then you aren't looking too closely. Both are good enough to be #2 WRs...especially with Rodgers tossing the ball. They are every bit as talented as Robert Brooks or Antonio Freeman...who were made to look better than they were by Favre.

Nelson and Jones simply don't get much of a chance with Driver, Jennings and Finley being such huge threats on the field. We don't run too many 4 and 5 WR sets with an OL that is giving up 50 sacks a year.


Everybody underestimes how good Robert Brooks was becoming. He's beter than both of those guys; I wouldn't even compare them yet. Also think Freeman was better as well although he seemed to lose his fire fast after he got the big deal.
Maybe too much partying with Sam Cassell ?

They're both decent. They're decent. I don't think either would tear things up as a #2 but both might be alright there as long as there are plenty of weapons around them that are better to take the focus away.

It's a solid debate to figure out who is going to be better.

Thank you Bretsky. It was a crying shame he got hurt, because I felt and feel that he was on his way to being a top flight receiver in the league. He was fearless over the middle, he ran good routes, he was fast (remember the 97 yarder or whatever it was against Da Bears?), he had good hands, and he worked hard. I loved the guy. He would have been, in my opinion, much better than Freeman.

As for the Jones/Nelson thing, my impression of Jones is that he has a hard time getting open in man coverage, especially on longer routes, and he doesn't make the over the shoulder catch as well as he might. I like the guy and have been slightly disappointed in his lack of ability to create separation. But I hope he's great this year and proves me wrong.

[twoseven]

Robert Brooks was by far our best receiver at the time his arm was broken in 96', showing hands, quickness, speed, and the ability to cross the middle and get up from a crushing hit.

the only time a ever remember freeman running away from the pack was on his 60+ yard TD catch in our SB win over the Pats. he pulled away from Ty Law and Lawyer Milloy who had the angle on him and to this day i still don't know how he did it, he channeled Desmond Howard's speed for that one play.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Quit using logic! Jones and Nelson are scrubs because I just don't see anything in them.

[packrulz]

WR James Jones #89
Pro Summary
Talented and physical third-year wideout will look to bounce back in 2009 after a frustrating second season that saw him battle a knee injury throughout the year
Originally sprained his right knee in preseason game at Denver and struggled to stay healthy for any extended period for the remainder of the season
Did show flashes of his abilities down the stretch, catching half of his 20 receptions during the final four games of 2008, including a career high 132-yard receiving game at Jacksonville (Dec. 14), the third-highest yardage output total by a Green Bay receiver on the season
As a rookie in 2007, quickly earned No. 3 receiver job and held it the entire season
Posted one of the top pass-catching seasons in Green Bay annals for a rookie, with his 47 catches and 676 yards both ranking fourth in club history
Reception total trailed only Sterling Sharpe (55, 1988), Billy Howton (53, 1952) and RB Gerry Ellis (48, 1980) in team’s rookie record book, while yardage total trailed only Howton (1,231), James Lofton (818, 1978) and Sharpe (791)
His totals also ranked third, respectively, among all 2007 NFL rookies behind Kansas City’s Dwayne Bowe (70-995) and Detroit’s Calvin Johnson (48-756)
Also caught two TD passes, including a 79-yarder on Monday Night Football in Denver (Oct. 29), the longest TD catch by a Green Bay rookie in 53 years (Max McGee, 82 yards, 1954)

WR JORDY NELSON #87
Pro Summary
Steady performer will look to continue role as No. 3 wideout in a talented wide receiver group
Played in every game during his debut season in Green Bay, the only rookie on the roster to accomplish that feat
Finished fourth on the team with 33 receptions for 366 yards (11.1 avg.) and two touchdowns
Will also compete for time as a kick returner after posting 11 returns for 208 yards (18.9 avg.) in ’08
Became only rookie in franchise history to post 30-plus catches and a 45-plus yard kick return
After starting his college career as a walk-on safety at Kansas State, went on to become one of the most prolific receivers in school history
Finished career second in school history with 206 receptions for 2,822 yards, trailing only Kevin Lockett (1993-96), who caught 217 passes for 3,032 yards and went on to be selected in the second round by the Kansas City Chiefs in 1997
Became only the fifth player in school history to surpass the 2,000-yard career receiving mark
As a senior, posted school records for receptions (122) and receiving yards (1,606) on his way to earning consensus All-America honors
Was one of three finalists for the Biletnikoff Award, given annually to the top receiver in the country
His 122 receptions broke the Big 12 conference record for catches in a season by a senior
Ranked second in the country and in the Big 12 in receptions and yardage, trailing only Texas Tech’s Michael Crabtree (134-1,962)
Set school single-game yardage mark at Iowa State in ’07 with 214 yards and also single-game reception record vs. Missouri State and Fresno State with 15 receptions in each contest
Showed his versatility by returning two of his six career punt returns for touchdowns, an 89-yarder and a 92-yarder, and threw two passes as a senior, both for touchdowns

[Brandon494]

Honestly I don't see much from Jones or Nelson. I would not want either to be the #2 WR when DD retires.

Then you aren't looking too closely. Both are good enough to be #2 WRs...especially with Rodgers tossing the ball. They are every bit as talented as Robert Brooks or Antonio Freeman...who were made to look better than they were by Favre.

Nelson and Jones simply don't get much of a chance with Driver, Jennings and Finley being such huge threats on the field. We don't run too many 4 and 5 WR sets with an OL that is giving up 50 sacks a year.

Oh Im looking closely enough, Im just not looking thru green and gold glasses. Every bit as talented as Brooks or Freeman huh? :roll:

[Scott Campbell]

First 3 years:

Robert Brooks 954 yards 5 TD's
James Jones 1390 yards 8 TD's

First 2 years:

Robert Brooks 306 yards 1 TD's
Jordy Nelson 686 yards 4 TD's

[Brandon494]

So Jones and Nelson are off to faster career starts than 2 of the top 3 receivers from this year, and 5 of the top 22.

I'm not quite ready to write them off yet.

All those recievers you listed mean nothing.

I could list just as many recievers who put up similair numbers who have never started. I hope I'm wrong and they can prove me wrong but I just don't see it.

[Scott Campbell]

So Jones and Nelson are off to faster career starts than 2 of the top 3 receivers from this year, and 5 of the top 22.

I'm not quite ready to write them off yet.

All those recievers you listed mean nothing.


Obviously not - given the way you base your analysis. You've backed you claim up with what exactly?

[Brandon494]

First 3 years:

Robert Brooks 954 yards 5 TD's
James Jones 1390 yards 8 TD's

First 2 years:

Robert Brooks 306 yards 1 TD's
Jordy Nelson 686 yards 4 TD's

haha dude that means nothing, Peter Warrick put up better numbers than both players his first three years and what happened to him?

I'm going by what I see on the field, not comparing stats to other recievers.

[Scott Campbell]

First 3 years:

Robert Brooks 954 yards 5 TD's
James Jones 1390 yards 8 TD's

First 2 years:

Robert Brooks 306 yards 1 TD's
Jordy Nelson 686 yards 4 TD's

haha dude that means nothing, Peter Warrick put up better numbers than both players his first three years and what happened to him?

I'm going by what I see on the field, not comparing stats to other recievers.


Oh yeah. I forgot how you called Miles Austin's breakout this year.

I'm not sure our guys are stars, but the stats say it's premature to write them off.

[Brandon494]

First 3 years:

Robert Brooks 954 yards 5 TD's
James Jones 1390 yards 8 TD's

First 2 years:

Robert Brooks 306 yards 1 TD's
Jordy Nelson 686 yards 4 TD's

haha dude that means nothing, Peter Warrick put up better numbers than both players his first three years and what happened to him?

I'm going by what I see on the field, not comparing stats to other recievers.


Oh yeah. I forgot how you called Miles Austin's breakout this year.

What are you talking about? Your not even making sense now.

Anyway Im tired of discussing this, the future will show who will be right about these players and I hope I'm wrong to be honest.

[Brandon494]

First 3 years:

Robert Brooks 954 yards 5 TD's
James Jones 1390 yards 8 TD's

First 2 years:

Robert Brooks 306 yards 1 TD's
Jordy Nelson 686 yards 4 TD's

First 2 years

Robert Ferguson 813 yards 7 TDs

First 3 years

Robert Ferguson 1180 yards 8 TDs

First 2 years

Antonio Chatman 795 yards 5 TDs

Not saying Jones and Nelson are the next Ferguson and Chatman just making a point you can't go by stats to project a players future.