Big Ben out 4-6

[Tony Oday]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Roethlisberger-suspended-by-NFL-042110

I think this is absolute BS...get ready to do this to EVERY player that now goes to a bar and hooks up with ladies. If I am Big Ben I would challenge this.

(again I think he is a D bag)

[RashanGary]

Not enough.

[Tarlam!]

I think this is absolute BS...

Yeah, total BS. It's BS that after 6 weeks without pay, Ben can go back to earning millions.

not only has Ben ruined the life of his victim, the cop also lost his job over the incident, not to mention his bodyguard, who is a trooper, is under investigation for his part in the incident.

It's also BS for the Rooney family and every Steelers fan with a Roethlisberger jersey.

Sorry Tony, you're a great poster and I really enjoy your posts, but we see this differently. Ben deserves to be thrown out of the league and sued to pay back the Rooney's their bonus money.

[Tarlam!]

I'm thinking, if this thread doesn't turn football sprecific shortly, it will get moved to Romper Room. There's already a Big Ben thread raging in there.

So, what will the Steelers do without their Franchise QB for 25% to 40% of their season?

[Fritz]

Now warming up...Charlie Batch?

[Tarlam!]

Now warming up...Charlie Batch?

Ya, also read they "reaquired" Leftwich. http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d817a4532&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

[packers11]

www.rotoworld.com


The Steelers have begun contacting teams to trade Ben Roethlisberger for a top-10 pick, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.

This confirms yesterday's report from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and takes it a step further. Schefter says the Steelers are the ones being proactive, and there is at least one team considering a deal. It's starting to look like a real possibility that Roethlisberger will be serving his 4-6 game suspension somewhere other than Pittsburgh.

Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter

[Chubbyhubby]

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/13258478/steelers-reacquire-qb-leftwich-from-buccaneers?tag=headlines;nfl


Byron Leftwich was reacquired from Tampa Bay Bucks for a 7th round draft pick.

[RashanGary]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Roethlisberger-suspended-by-NFL-042110

I think this is absolute BS...get ready to do this to EVERY player that now goes to a bar and hooks up with ladies. If I am Big Ben I would challenge this.

(again I think he is a D bag)

Look how many people have slept around and NEVER been accused of this. Ben's already been accused of sexual assault twice. He's either sexually assaulting these girls or treating them like absolute crap and bordering right on the edge of assault. I tend to think the latter. There's an outisde chance he found two gold digging liars, but that seems so remote and slim that I won't even consider it.

The NFL, the Steelers organization. It's a privilege to be a part of them, NOT a right. This isn't the law. If he was convicted of a crime for his sleezy actions, I'd be sort of outraged too. If the NFL suspends him, they have the right to whatever conduct policy they choose and if they think being a sleeze ball, is enough to suspend a guy, then Ben can go find a different job where being a sleeze ball is OK. I would have liked to seen a year. That way he's out of football for a year, and hopefully his career and financial well being is ruined. As far as I'm concerned, he did it to himself.

[Tony Oday]

We do see different on this one...and I usually never go to Romper Room so if this post needs to be deleted rock on.

I think he is a D bag for sure, if I am related to the girl in question I want blood.

What I dont like about this is that a girl made an accusation that she cannot back up and this guy almost loses his job. I have no problem with what he did in the abstract...DH thing to do YES, Creepy as all H YES...slimy H YES...HOWEVER how did his conduct at the bar violate the NFLs oh so stringent code of conduct? Making it rain at a club, the countless things we have heard about the love boat and the arctic blast, just two examples of the Vikes (sorry Rastak), and how many weeks were guys suspended? NONE all that happened was a one game check fine to Smoot and Mckinnie!

Sorry I think this guy should be beat no doubt but the facts do not support the punishment all it turned out to be is an accusation.

[Tarlam!]

What annoys me about the Schefter tweet is that some owners are prepared to give this scumbag a chance.

Obviously, Green Bay would never be considered a trade partner in this, but if they were, I'd feel it was a slap in my face as a fan. One of the things that really attract me to the Packers is the value they put on character.

This isn't like Koren Robinson (remember how irrate the Vikings fans were about him?). This isn't a codeine cocktail (Jolly). This isn't about carrying a concealed weapon or a bar room brawl.

This is dispicable and ruined at least 2 people's lives mid term.

So, keeping a football spin on this post, I can turn the other cheek and try and excuse a lot of things as immaturity, stupidity and give someone a second chance. I was all for giving Koren a second chance and last I heard he was doing a lot better in life because of it.

I wouldn't want to be a fan of a club that employs sexual offenders.

[Tony Oday]

What annoys me about the Schefter tweet is that some owners are prepared to give this scumbag a chance.

Obviously, Green Bay would never be considered a trade partner in this, but if they were, I'd feel it was a slap in my face as a fan. One of the things that really attract me to the Packers is the value they put on character.

This isn't like Koren Robinson (remember how irrate the Vikings fans were about him?). This isn't a codeine cocktail (Jolly). This isn't about carrying a concealed weapon or a bar room brawl.

This is dispicable and ruined at least 2 people's lives mid term.

So, keeping a football spin on this post, I can turn the other cheek and try and excuse a lot of things as immaturity, stupidity and give someone a second chance. I was all for giving Koren a second chance and last I heard he was doing a lot better in life because of it.

I wouldn't want to be a fan of a club that employs sexual offenders.

I wouldnt want him here because I really don't think he is a game changing QB. I like "Packer" people you know? Guys that my son can watch and I dont have to explain why they are on Fox Sports and Fox News you know?

This all being said the Vikings should take him and ditch Favre. I mean for what theasking price is for a "franchise" QB and the history of the Queens this would solve a long standing problem for the purple...I hope they DONT do it but I would if I was Chili

[RashanGary]

Only problem with your post, Tarlam, is that you don't know that he ruined their lives or if they put themselves there and then were mad at him for being such a jerk.

[Tony Oday]

So what does this do to the Steelers? If they are shopping Big Ben then they have conceded that this year is a losing season? How pissed are you if you are a Steeler?

[Tarlam!]

Only problem with your post, Tarlam, is that you don't know that he ruined their lives or if they put themselves there and then were mad at him for being such a jerk.

True, and the cop was supposedly a jerk, so he brought it upon himself. As to the girl - actions speak louder than words and her actions after the event speak volumes to me. BR is a sexual predater and I wouldn't want him in the NFL let alone in Green Bay.

If Chilli takes Tony Oday's advice and does indeed trade for him, I will have a reason to want them to fail miserably.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I've always thought he was overrated. Sure, he breaks out of some sacks, but I've never been impressed. He was the beneficiary of being on some solid all-around teams. But he's averaged 3200 yards and 21 td's per season. His first year, he threw for 4328 yds and 26 tds. One season since he threw 32 td's. Other 4 seasons he averaged 17 td's and has averaged less than 3000 yards since his rookie year.

[Guiness]

This situation, and the precedent it is setting is screwed up beyond belief. Grey Doyel wrote a piece on it

http://www.cbssports.com/columns/story/13243927/goodells-conduct-policy-veering-from-mostly-right-to-all-wrong

He essentially says that he was ok with the NFL handing down suspensions based on arrests or charges, but to base them on allegations is wrong. If you step back from this case a bit, and look at what that sort of a policy could mean in general, it's pretty scary.



Goodell's conduct policy veering from mostly right to all wrong
April 18, 2010
By Gregg Doyel
CBSSports.com National Columnist

I don't want to live in a world where an accusation is tantamount to a conviction. That's what happened in Salem, Mass., a few centuries ago. People were accused of witchcraft. Proof? There was no proof, just accusations. But accusations were enough. And so innocent people died.

I don't want to live there.

Roger Goodell lives there.

Roger Goodell scares the hell out of me.

And it wasn't always this way. When Goodell as NFL commissioner unveiled his personal conduct policy in 2007, it was new, needed, even noble. The policy read, and I quote, "It will be considered conduct detrimental [for league personnel] to engage in ... violent and/or criminal activity." The policy went on to describe the line in the sand that could not be crossed, and that line was this: an arrest or a legal charge. A player didn't have to be convicted of a crime to be suspended; he had to be "arrested or charged," a phrase that appeared three times in the conduct policy.

And I loved it. The court system can take forever, and legal finagling often reduces charges to unrecognizable, even negligible levels. For example, domestic battery is often reduced to disturbing the peace, and a DUI arrest can be pleaded down to reckless driving. Goodell can't suspend a guy for disturbing the peace or for reckless friggin' driving, so he goes after the original charge. And we should understand. Tank Johnson and Pacman Jones were charged with all sorts of heinous crimes, and Goodell hammered them. Before all the lawyer wrangling, there was plenty of legal smoke, so Goodell brought the fire. Good for him, and good for his cynical but smart line in the sand.

But in recent weeks, Goodell has moved that line. Where did he move it? He moved it toward Salem, Mass. He moved it somewhere scary:

It's no longer necessary that there be enough evidence of "violent and/or criminal activity" for police to make an arrest or file charges. Nope. Now, an accusation is enough.

Goodell's new line in the sand was outlined in a memo leaked last week, a memo that reads, and I quote: "Every investigation, arrest, or other allegation of improper conduct ... threatens the continued success of our brand."

See that? An arrest is no longer needed. Forget about a conviction. Now, an "allegation" will do.

It makes me wonder ...

I live in Cincinnati. I see the occasional Cincinnati Bengal out at a bar. If I accused any of them of punching me in the face, could I get them suspended?

Hey, Commissioner. Carson Palmer and Chad Ochocinco decked me -- get 'em!

The news peg for my column, obviously, is Pittsburgh quarterback Ben Roethlisberger. He has been accused of sexual assault by two different women, most recently last month in Georgia. In both instances, police looked into the woman's accusations. In both instances, the district attorney reviewed the evidence and declined to take the case to trial. Roethlisberger wasn't convicted. He wasn't even charged.

But Goodell wants him suspended anyway. In hindsight, it seems obvious to me that Roethlisberger was the reason for that memo last week, and for the new line in the sand. In that memo, Goodell went all revisionist history when he wrote, and I quote, "Unfortunately, in recent weeks there have been several negative incidents ... that we have previously identified as particularly troublesome [such as] allegations of violence against women."

See what Goodell did there? We have previously identified ... allegations of violence against women.

Liar.

"Allegations" were never previously identified. That was never the line in the sand. Arrests and charges were identified. That was the line in sand: Arrests. Charges.

But now, "allegations" are enough. And let's be honest: They are rather horrific allegations. Sexual assault on a woman by anyone, much less by a 240-pound professional football player, is evil if true. Allegations like that must be taken seriously -- deathly seriously. And they were. Cops in Nevada investigated one accusation and found that the alleged victim had told friends she was hoping for "a little Roethlisberger" after the encounter, which sounds nothing like sexual assault to me. Cops in Georgia investigated the other charge, which sounded much more serious. In any event, neither state found enough evidence to go forward.

No matter to Goodell. He has been talking with the Steelers about how to deal with Roethlisberger, with Steelers president Art Rooney II saying it's a matter of time before Roethlisberger is disciplined. Said Rooney on Thursday: "When we get to the point where we have agreed with the commissioner on what that action will be, that's when it will be imposed."

In other words, this won't be an NFL suspension -- yet it'll be a Roger Goodell production anyway. If the Steelers, on their own, want to suspend Roethlisberger for a pattern of immaturity that makes the team look bad, that would be their right. He's their employee. If the Steelers want to suspend Roethlisberger, do it.

But Goodell is involved, redrawing his line in the sand to a location that should curdle the blood of every player in the league. Because if Roethlisberger goes down for this, anybody could be next. No charges? No problem. All the NFL needs is an allegation.

To understand how strongly I feel about this position, you have to understand how strongly I dislike Ben Roethlisberger. He's a serial idiot -- a stupid, cocky caricature of the modern-day athlete. Teammates don't like him. I can't stand him. I tolerate his existence by ignoring him whenever possible, but I can't ignore what Goodell is about to do -- not merely to Roethlisberger, but to my idea of justice. Suspending a player for one or two incidents that didn't merit a single criminal charge is an injustice. Once upon a time, Goodell had the right idea when it came to policing his league. But that time has gone. The NFL has become a police state. Enough is enough.

Never thought I would say this, but I'm saying it:

Roger Goodell must be stopped.

[swede]

www.rotoworld.com


The Steelers have begun contacting teams to trade Ben Roethlisberger for a top-10 pick, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.

This confirms yesterday's report from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and takes it a step further. Schefter says the Steelers are the ones being proactive, and there is at least one team considering a deal. It's starting to look like a real possibility that Roethlisberger will be serving his 4-6 game suspension somewhere other than Pittsburgh.

Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter

What are the Vegas odds on Bengals, Raiders, or Vikings to be Big Ben's new boss?

[Patler]

I think he is a D bag for sure, if I am related to the girl in question I want blood.

What I dont like about this is that a girl made an accusation that she cannot back up and this guy almost loses his job. I have no problem with what he did in the abstract...DH thing to do YES, Creepy as all H YES...slimy H YES...HOWEVER how did his conduct at the bar violate the NFLs oh so stringent code of conduct? Making it rain at a club, the countless things we have heard about the love boat and the arctic blast, just two examples of the Vikes (sorry Rastak), and how many weeks were guys suspended? NONE all that happened was a one game check fine to Smoot and Mckinnie!

Sorry I think this guy should be beat no doubt but the facts do not support the punishment all it turned out to be is an accusation.

Having sex in a bar with a consenting partner could easily be considered by the NFL to violate their code of conduct. I don't think the code of conduct is determined by legal/illegal.

The girl's version of the story seems to be pretty well supported, just not sufficient for prosecution of a CRIME. In a "more likely than not" analysis, it seems clear she wins, but a prosecutor won't prosecute on that.

Roethlisberger isn't being punished for this one incident alone. You can bet it is based on the series of incidents that show a pattern of behavior detrimental to the NFL.

This wasn't a guy picking up a girl and going home with her. From the report it seems to have been a guy with a team singling out a target for him to "conquer" on the spot. If he had taken her back to his apartment alone, it might have been looked at very differently.

The "love boat" incident was a little less public and involved professionals hired for the evening, did it not? A little less impact than coercing a young, drunken girl, wouldn't you agree?

[Tarlam!]

Great article and I agree with it wholeheartedly. I think Goodell is a despot. However, the Rooneys were always going to punish BR.

From the beginning I've stated the allegations should go to court. Ben should have been aressted. From what I can gather, the first cop on the scene really didn't do the legal system any favours.

[Patler]

The only problem with the article is that it ignores what the individual players may have admitted to Goodell when they met.

There is a difference between a player being accused, and the player denying that anything at all happened; and a player acknowledging an occurrence but disputing the criminal significance of it. The league could very easily determine that, crime or no crime, the activity itself was detrimental to the league.

In the business world, employees at will can get suspended for lots of things that are not criminal. In an image conscious business like the NFL I would expect an even higher standard to be applied.

Should the league really be OK with any conduct what so ever as long as the DA doesn't file charges? That's a pretty low standard of conduct.

[Guiness]

Very good point wrt what the player may have admitted to the commissioner.

[Bossman641]

I think Goodell is starting down a slippery slope. If Big Ben's case is an isolated interest based on his pattern of behavior and other information Goodll may have learned from meeting with him, then I am all for the suspension. I would hate to see this become the norm though where players are suspended purely based on allegations.

[swede]

I think Goodell is starting down a slippery slope. If Big Ben's case is an isolated interest based on his pattern of behavior and other information Goodll may have learned from meeting with him, then I am all for the suspension. I would hate to see this become the norm though where players are suspended purely based on allegations.

Well, it's not such a slippery slope if he adheres to your latter point.

He has consistently indicated he'd make his own decisions regarding player discipline with his own information to protect the reputation of the league. He has granted himself a lot of power and the only check and balance is public perception and the support of the owners.

The suspension was minimal considering the allegation.

[Guiness]

That was exactly my point Bossman.

If the allegations are enough, when I'm in Houston next week, I'm going to drive up to Dallas, punch myself in the face a few times, and head on down to the police station and claim, um, Miles Austin did it.

Guess I better check and make sure he's in town first.

[Tony Oday]

This suspension and the facts are in a smokey back room...this is how Hockey does it and NOBODY likes their suspension system

[Guiness]

I'm never sure Oday, if things are better or worse now than when Brian Burke was in charge of discipline. Getting inside that guy's mind to try and determine why he made some of those decisions would pretty much drive you nuts!

[mngolf19]

Only problem with your post, Tarlam, is that you don't know that he ruined their lives or if they put themselves there and then were mad at him for being such a jerk.

True, and the cop was supposedly a jerk, so he brought it upon himself. As to the girl - actions speak louder than words and her actions after the event speak volumes to me. BR is a sexual predater and I wouldn't want him in the NFL let alone in Green Bay.

If Chilli takes Tony Oday's advice and does indeed trade for him, I will have a reason to want them to fail miserably.

Will never happen now. They go for character people now as well. If they could reasonably get rid of McKinnie right now they would.

[red]

www.rotoworld.com


The Steelers have begun contacting teams to trade Ben Roethlisberger for a top-10 pick, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.

This confirms yesterday's report from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and takes it a step further. Schefter says the Steelers are the ones being proactive, and there is at least one team considering a deal. It's starting to look like a real possibility that Roethlisberger will be serving his 4-6 game suspension somewhere other than Pittsburgh.

Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter

this just screams cleveland browns

they have #7 and are desperate to get rid of it, plus they don't have a qb

maybe a swap of 1st round picks and the rappist

[Brandon494]

How is this BS? This is the second time, not the first he has been accused. I stand behind Goodell decision 100%. The NFL is a billion dollar business and they have a image to protect.

[mngolf19]

www.rotoworld.com


The Steelers have begun contacting teams to trade Ben Roethlisberger for a top-10 pick, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.

This confirms yesterday's report from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and takes it a step further. Schefter says the Steelers are the ones being proactive, and there is at least one team considering a deal. It's starting to look like a real possibility that Roethlisberger will be serving his 4-6 game suspension somewhere other than Pittsburgh.

Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter

this just screams cleveland browns

they have #7 and are desperate to get rid of it, plus they don't have a qb

maybe a swap of 1st round picks and the rappist

Rooney's won't trade within division.

[Patler]

I think Goodell is starting down a slippery slope. If Big Ben's case is an isolated interest based on his pattern of behavior and other information Goodll may have learned from meeting with him, then I am all for the suspension. I would hate to see this become the norm though where players are suspended purely based on allegations.

This was a lot more than just an allegation. The report released following the investigation was quite clear about some things that, even if not criminally punishable, were certainly not the type of conduct a business would want high profile employees to engage in.

[red]

www.rotoworld.com


The Steelers have begun contacting teams to trade Ben Roethlisberger for a top-10 pick, according to ESPN's Adam Schefter.

This confirms yesterday's report from the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette and takes it a step further. Schefter says the Steelers are the ones being proactive, and there is at least one team considering a deal. It's starting to look like a real possibility that Roethlisberger will be serving his 4-6 game suspension somewhere other than Pittsburgh.

Source: Adam Schefter on Twitter

this just screams cleveland browns

they have #7 and are desperate to get rid of it, plus they don't have a qb

maybe a swap of 1st round picks and the rappist

Rooney's won't trade within division.

hey, if you could give cancer to one of your enemies, would you?

[Patler]

That was exactly my point Bossman.

If the allegations are enough, when I'm in Houston next week, I'm going to drive up to Dallas, punch myself in the face a few times, and head on down to the police station and claim, um, Miles Austin did it.

Guess I better check and make sure he's in town first.

Let's use your example:

On the one hand Miles Austin says, "I never met Mr. Guiness, I have no idea who he is, and I certainly didn't hit him."

contrasted with

"Yes, I met Mr. Guiness that night, he was drunk, I suggested we have a boxing match. He said he didn't think it was a good idea, but didn't protest too much. I insisted, and proceeded to kicked the crap out of him while my bodyguards prevented his friends from intervening."


I doubt an early suspension would occur in the first situation. It very well might in the second.

[Patler]

"The Personal Conduct Policy makes clear that I may impose discipline 'even where the conduct does not result in conviction of a crime' as, for example, where the conduct 'imposes inherent danger to the safety and well being of another person'," Goodell stated in his letter to Roethlisberger. "As the District Attorney concluded, the extensive investigatory record shows that you contributed to the irresponsible consumption of alcohol by purchasing (or facilitating the purchase of) alcoholic beverages for underage college students, at least some of whom were likely already intoxicated. There is no question that the excessive consumption of alcohol that evening put the students and yourself at risk. The Personal Conduct Policy also states that discipline is appropriate for conduct that 'undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players.' By any measure, your conduct satisfies that standard."

[Tony Oday]

"The Personal Conduct Policy makes clear that I may impose discipline 'even where the conduct does not result in conviction of a crime' as, for example, where the conduct 'imposes inherent danger to the safety and well being of another person'," Goodell stated in his letter to Roethlisberger. "As the District Attorney concluded, the extensive investigatory record shows that you contributed to the irresponsible consumption of alcohol by purchasing (or facilitating the purchase of) alcoholic beverages for underage college students, at least some of whom were likely already intoxicated. There is no question that the excessive consumption of alcohol that evening put the students and yourself at risk. The Personal Conduct Policy also states that discipline is appropriate for conduct that 'undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players.' By any measure, your conduct satisfies that standard."

Now an NFL player can be suspended for being drunk at a bar...

[Tarlam!]

Not sure about the rest of the content of the letter, but if it doesn't mention the sexual misconduct, it's lame.

[Tarlam!]

Now an NFL player can be suspended for being drunk at a bar...

I don't get you, Tony. In one post you say you want your boy to watch and support NFL Teams/Players that have morals and are role models and then you post this. I don't really know where you stand on this.

[Guiness]

That was exactly my point Bossman.

If the allegations are enough, when I'm in Houston next week, I'm going to drive up to Dallas, punch myself in the face a few times, and head on down to the police station and claim, um, Miles Austin did it.

Guess I better check and make sure he's in town first.

Let's use your example:

On the one hand Miles Austin says, "I never met Mr. Guiness, I have no idea who he is, and I certainly didn't hit him."

contrasted with

"Yes, I met Mr. Guiness that night, he was drunk, I suggested we have a boxing match. He said he didn't think it was a good idea, but didn't protest too much. I insisted, and proceeded to kicked the crap out of him while my bodyguards prevented his friends from intervening."


I doubt an early suspension would occur in the first situation. It very well might in the second.

Of course that's how you want it to work. I know I was being argumentative, but I think I was ridding the train of thought through to its (what I think is obvious) conclusion. This is a lot of power to give Goodell, and one of the mantras I live by is 'Absolute power corrupts absolutely'. IMO the league being able to suspend based on allegations is damn close to absolute power.

Much as TO was able to sue Dallas for taking away his game checks (did he win that?) BR would have a case if he decided to file a grievance against the league for denying him his income.

[Tony Oday]

Now an NFL player can be suspended for being drunk at a bar...

I don't get you, Tony. In one post you say you want your boy to watch and support NFL Teams/Players that have morals and are role models and then you post this. I don't really know where you stand on this.

Where I stand is this. On one hand I am a parent and want my little 4 year old to be able to look up to the guys on the Packers. I want Packer People on our team. I do not want guys like Randy Moss, McKinnie, Tank Williams, Irvin, list goes on and on.

On the other hand I do not want this to turn into a field day against these young players. So he got drunk and lucky at a bar and the girl wanted to prosecute. I do believe that he is entitled to go out and have a good time, get drunk, hit on girls and hell get lucky. There were no grounds to prosecute him and be sucessful but he still gets punished? That means Jared Allen is open to it because lets face it he sounds like an ass in that video even though I support what he did. I do NOT think an accusation should bring about punishment. This is a he said she said thing and now he loses money and face because of it. I personally think he is an ass and I have been around pro/college athletes when I bartended back in school and they think the world is theirs. I think he actually did do something innapropriate however there is no proof but a 20 year old drunk girl.

What it boils down to is she said she didn't want it and he says she did. He has been accused two times of this I know but neither one led to criminal charges.

[Bossman641]

I think Goodell is starting down a slippery slope. If Big Ben's case is an isolated interest based on his pattern of behavior and other information Goodll may have learned from meeting with him, then I am all for the suspension. I would hate to see this become the norm though where players are suspended purely based on allegations.

This was a lot more than just an allegation. The report released following the investigation was quite clear about some things that, even if not criminally punishable, were certainly not the type of conduct a business would want high profile employees to engage in.

I'm no expert on the player conduct policy, but is it vague enough to allow Goodell full decision-making authority?

Based on the Goodell letter you posted it appears that it does.


....or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players...

I would be curious to see what happens if the players' union appealed this and what the NFL's response would be. Would it be anything more specific than misconduct?

[Freak Out]

Really it should never have made it to Goodell.......Pittsburgh should have suspended him.

[Tarlam!]

Where I stand is this. On one hand I am a parent and want my little 4 year old to be able to look up to the guys on the Packers. I want Packer People on our team.
()
What it boils down to is she said she didn't want it and he says she did. He has been accused two times of this I know but neither one led to criminal charges.

You might recall that I supported your point of view intitially, but I take the point of view after reading the DA's report that this is far more than a he said she said. I think that's the main difference.

Maybe I'm too European/Australian on this.

[Patler]

Of course that's how you want it to work. I know I was being argumentative, but I think I was ridding the train of thought through to its (what I think is obvious) conclusion. This is a lot of power to give Goodell, and one of the mantras I live by is 'Absolute power corrupts absolutely'. IMO the league being able to suspend based on allegations is damn close to absolute power.

Much as TO was able to sue Dallas for taking away his game checks (did he win that?) BR would have a case if he decided to file a grievance against the league for denying him his income.

BR could file the grievance if he wished. I doubt he would win. The investigator's report was too damning.

For years and years I had to sign a Personal Conduct Policy as an employee at will. While the policies generally explicitly mentioned criminal activity, they also included activity detrimental to the good will of the employer. Didn't have to be illegal at all to violate the policy.

I don't think Goodell has any greater power than any employer of an employee at will, which is basically what a pro athlete is, CBA or no CBA.

[Tony Oday]

Where I stand is this. On one hand I am a parent and want my little 4 year old to be able to look up to the guys on the Packers. I want Packer People on our team.
()
What it boils down to is she said she didn't want it and he says she did. He has been accused two times of this I know but neither one led to criminal charges.

You might recall that I supported your point of view intitially, but I take the point of view after reading the DA's report that this is far more than a he said she said. I think that's the main difference.

Maybe I'm too European/Australian on this.

See no I actually think this guy should get his ass kicked. If I was there he would have atleast had a bodyguard with a sore hand from hitting me repeatedly :)

that being said he wasnt even prosecuted...not that he was found innocent, he wasnt even TRIED!!! so thats what I do not agree with.

[MadScientist]

Really it should never have made it to Goodell.......Pittsburgh should have suspended him.
Since Pittsburgh is trying to get rid of him, the suspension had to come down from the league.

[Tarlam!]

Really it should never have made it to Goodell.......Pittsburgh should have suspended him.
Since Pittsburgh is trying to get rid of him, the suspension had to come down from the league.

Rooney said he was prepared to doll out the punishment but felt obliged to dance with Goodell....

[RashanGary]

"Yes, I met Mr. Guiness that night, he was drunk, I suggested we have a boxing match. He said he didn't think it was a good idea, but didn't protest too much. I insisted, and proceeded to kicked the crap out of him while my bodyguards prevented his friends from intervening."


Not a great analogy. Now, if the person who was fighting was a UFC fighter with his, "down to fight" pin on and Ben came up with that argument, it would be tougher to charge him.

Outside of great fighters, how many people do you think want to have Big Ben swinging at their faces? I'll bet there is a higher percentage of 20 year old females who were seen flirting with Ben in his VIP section, wearing DTF pins that want to have sex with Ben compared to the percentage of feeble, regular people willing to have Big Ben swinging at their face with the attempt to break it.

[RashanGary]

Oh, and on top of that, Ben never said she said no. She said that in her second statement, after being in contact with a lawyer.

[Tony Oday]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/why-big-ben-really-deserved-the-suspension

my thoughts summed up...Big Ben you are a moron.

[Patler]

Oh, and on top of that, Ben never said she said no. She said that in her second statement, after being in contact with a lawyer.

I wasn't suggesting that Roethlisberger he did say that publicly about his situation.

We were talking about hypothetical situations. Guiness proposed that a false accusation by him could get a player (Miles Austin) in trouble based on the precedent of Roethlisberger's suspension. I suggested that it might or might not, and gave two different extremes. Neither extreme was intended to be Roethlisberger's exactly.

BUT...we have no idea what he may or may not have said to Goodell. Maybe he admitted that she said no, but that he didn't think she meant it because she wasn't forceful enough (as some in here have suggested). Maybe he said nothing at all. We don't know.

The suspension is likely based on information that is not public, including the conversation between Goodell and BR.

[LP]

I think Goodell has just had enough of Rothlisberger's idiocy and sleazebag behavior causing bad publicity for the NFL. There are penalties in life for being stupid, even if it isn't "criminal". He's also sending the message to the rest of the young, rich, stupid and or sleazebag players in the league, that while mistakes may be made, patterns of bad conduct will not be tolerated. Period. End of dicussion.

[MJZiggy]

Oh, and on top of that, Ben never said she said no. She said that in her second statement, after being in contact with a lawyer.

You really, really, REALLY need to review the facts of this case. She not only said no, she tried to LEAVE THE ROOM.

I think Goodell made the right call here. Rooney had input with Goodell on the matter and clearly said that if the League had not been severe enough, Rooney would have added to it.

The part of the punishment that you guys are missing is that BR has to undergo behavioral counseling and that the length of the suspension is in direct relation to how he performs in this counseling. It could be 4 or it could be indefinite. He will not be reinstated until Goodell is satisfied.

BR has said he will not appeal this decision, his owner is livid, he's lost his team, and he's lucky to still be on the team. Whether they had evidence to convict is not the issue. He is supposed to be someone for little kids to look up to. People have cited various players and their crimes, but this is the QB--the face of your team is a sexual predator. That simply can't and won't be tolerated.

If you missed it, the Steelers will have to pay a fine as well for having two players simultaneously on suspension for conduct unbecoming.

[Bretsky]

well deserved

Steelers should trade his ass to Oakland so he can suffer there for many years to come. If they can, they will IMO

[swede]

well deserved

Steelers should trade his ass to Oakland so he can suffer there for many years to come. If they can, they will IMO

+1

[pbmax]

What it boils down to is she said she didn't want it and he says she did. He has been accused two times of this I know but neither one led to criminal charges.
How about this? He was suspended in part for providing alcohol to underage patrons? The fact that he then tried to have sex with one in the bar just makes him look like a perv. Its hard to imagine I have more game than a Starting NFL QB.

As Florio has pointed out, basing a conduct policy only on arrests and convictions is problematic. In the case of an arrest, the local police have authority and power to detain or release someone who may (or may not) have been engaged in illegality. The police in the GA town let Ben leave after cursory questioning. They also failed to secure evidence from the crime scene and the bathroom was cleaned with bleach and Spic and Span. Such a policy gives the police the chance to help the local team/hero out.

Basing it on a conviction, to my way of thinking is confusing not guilty with innocent. OJ isn't innocent. But he was found not guilty.

An employer is not under any requirement to act under the rules of a criminal court. If Ben doesn't want drunk girls to be able to get him in trouble, then he can stop buying them drinks and stop trying to have his way with them. No one can get him in trouble like this unless he proactively involves himself.

[Tony Oday]

What it boils down to is she said she didn't want it and he says she did. He has been accused two times of this I know but neither one led to criminal charges.
How about this? He was suspended in part for providing alcohol to underage patrons? The fact that he then tried to have sex with one in the bar just makes him look like a perv. Its hard to imagine I have more game than a Starting NFL QB.

As Florio has pointed out, basing a conduct policy only on arrests and convictions is problematic. In the case of an arrest, the local police have authority and power to detain or release someone who may (or may not) have been engaged in illegality. The police in the GA town let Ben leave after cursory questioning. They also failed to secure evidence from the crime scene and the bathroom was cleaned with bleach and Spic and Span. Such a policy gives the police the chance to help the local team/hero out.

Basing it on a conviction, to my way of thinking is confusing not guilty with innocent. OJ isn't innocent. But he was found not guilty.

An employer is not under any requirement to act under the rules of a criminal court. If Ben doesn't want drunk girls to be able to get him in trouble, then he can stop buying them drinks and stop trying to have his way with them. No one can get him in trouble like this unless he proactively involves himself.

well he wasnt convicted of that either, buying underagers drinks, or he would be subject to a gross misdemenor regardless if they had a "fake"

I still think he is a D-bag but I do not think he should have been suspended.

[MJZiggy]

well deserved

Steelers should trade his ass to Oakland so he can suffer there for many years to come. If they can, they will IMO

+1

Stellar idea!

[MJZiggy]

What it boils down to is she said she didn't want it and he says she did. He has been accused two times of this I know but neither one led to criminal charges.
How about this? He was suspended in part for providing alcohol to underage patrons? The fact that he then tried to have sex with one in the bar just makes him look like a perv. Its hard to imagine I have more game than a Starting NFL QB.

As Florio has pointed out, basing a conduct policy only on arrests and convictions is problematic. In the case of an arrest, the local police have authority and power to detain or release someone who may (or may not) have been engaged in illegality. The police in the GA town let Ben leave after cursory questioning. They also failed to secure evidence from the crime scene and the bathroom was cleaned with bleach and Spic and Span. Such a policy gives the police the chance to help the local team/hero out.

Basing it on a conviction, to my way of thinking is confusing not guilty with innocent. OJ isn't innocent. But he was found not guilty.

An employer is not under any requirement to act under the rules of a criminal court. If Ben doesn't want drunk girls to be able to get him in trouble, then he can stop buying them drinks and stop trying to have his way with them. No one can get him in trouble like this unless he proactively involves himself.

well he wasnt convicted of that either, buying underagers drinks, or he would be subject to a gross misdemenor regardless if they had a "fake"

I still think he is a D-bag but I do not think he should have been suspended.

You don't accept a suspension that includes behavioral counseling without a peep of protest unless you know there's a good reason you're suspended. Just because they didn't gather the evidence they needed to prosecute the case, doesn't mean those involved don't know what went down. BR's not fighting it and Rooney would have stepped in had the league not done enough. They know what happened.

[Kiwon]

Well, at least Big Ben has lit up the football forums during the off-season and given bored fans something to do.

How many wake up calls does the guy need? He nearly killed himself a few years ago riding without a helmet and obviously the press through this incident is bringing past instances to light.

He may keep out of jail but he's tarnishing his rep and probably losing millions for himself when his contract is up.

[Gunakor]

"The Personal Conduct Policy makes clear that I may impose discipline 'even where the conduct does not result in conviction of a crime' as, for example, where the conduct 'imposes inherent danger to the safety and well being of another person'," Goodell stated in his letter to Roethlisberger. "As the District Attorney concluded, the extensive investigatory record shows that you contributed to the irresponsible consumption of alcohol by purchasing (or facilitating the purchase of) alcoholic beverages for underage college students, at least some of whom were likely already intoxicated. There is no question that the excessive consumption of alcohol that evening put the students and yourself at risk. The Personal Conduct Policy also states that discipline is appropriate for conduct that 'undermines or puts at risk the integrity and reputation of the NFL, NFL clubs, or NFL players.' By any measure, your conduct satisfies that standard."

Now an NFL player can be suspended for being drunk at a bar...

That's not what it says.


"...for example, where the conduct 'imposes inherent danger to the safety and well being of another person"


"the extensive investigatory record shows that you contributed to the irresponsible consumption of alcohol by purchasing (or facilitating the purchase of) alcoholic beverages for underage college students, at least some of whom were likely already intoxicated."

Don't drink irresponsibly. Don't buy drinks for underage girls. Don't put the safety and well being of another person in inherent danger. You can avoid all of these things while still enjoying yourself at the bar.

[channtheman]

^ Exactly. Roethlisberger could also have just taken the girl back to his hotel room or house or wherever. Anywhere but in a public bathroom in a bar.

[Tony Oday]

SO what happenes to the Steelers this year?

[Gunakor]

that being said he wasnt even prosecuted...not that he was found innocent, he wasnt even TRIED!!! so thats what I do not agree with.

Being charged, tried, found guilty or not guilty... These are things for courts and judges and lawyers and juries. Goodell is none of the above. The rules set forth by Goodell for his league are not written by US legislators. Cmon now Tony, surely you've gotten yourself into a heap of trouble at least once in your life for something that isn't illegal, that you weren't charged, tried, and convicted in a US court for doing.

You have to separate US law from NFL policy, as they are not the same.

Laws are in place to protect society, but companies have their own set of rules. All companies, not just the NFL. You can be fired for something that isn't illegal in the first place, how can you argue against a player being merely suspended for repeated allegations of actual crimial activity? Especially when evidence of wrongdoing, illegal or not, is clearly apparent in at least one of those cases, I think Goodell is acting very responsibly in suspending Rothlisberger.

[Tony Oday]

that being said he wasnt even prosecuted...not that he was found innocent, he wasnt even TRIED!!! so thats what I do not agree with.

Being charged, tried, found guilty or not guilty... These are things for courts and judges and lawyers and juries. Goodell is none of the above. The rules set forth by Goodell for his league are not written by US legislators. Cmon now Tony, surely you've gotten yourself into a heap of trouble at least once in your life for something that isn't illegal, that you weren't charged, tried, and convicted in a US court for doing.

You have to separate US law from NFL policy, as they are not the same.

Laws are in place to protect society, but companies have their own set of rules. All companies, not just the NFL. You can be fired for something that isn't illegal in the first place, how can you argue against a player being merely suspended for repeated allegations of actual crimial activity? Especially when evidence of wrongdoing, illegal or not, is clearly apparent in at least one of those cases, I think Goodell is acting very responsibly in suspending Rothlisberger.

Well I have never been caught ;) The closest thing would be smoking in High School.

But now that he is suspended regardless of what we think about the validity in the suspension...what will happen to the Steelers this year?

[Gunakor]

I don't think any other team is gonna give up a top 10 overall pick and agree to pay a $10+mm salary for a guy that's gonna be sitting on the bench for the first month and a half of the season. So assume Rothlisberger is going to be the starter for the final two thirds of 2010. Over the first 6 weeks they play 5 games, having an early bye. They'll win 2 of those, one against Tampa Bay and the other against Cleveland. Pittsburgh gets Rothlisberger back under center with a 2-3 record and more than a fighting chance at making the playoffs.

I think the Steelers are playoff bound even with the suspension.

[Tony Oday]

That could be. Their D and running game needs to step up for sure. He could erase this by keeping his nose clean and winning games.

[Tarlam!]

Al Davis should propose a clean swap of 1st round picks and embattled QBs.

If Russel gets into the right environment, he may fulfill his potential. R'berger in Oakland would be the optimal landing ground.

Moneywise, I don't know, but they both have huge paychecks.

The deals makes more sense than just cutting both players outright, because the teams might salvage something....

Personally, I wouldn't miss either if they went to the CFL or Arena football.

[Gunakor]

The Saints and Jets will give them fits with or without Rothlisberger. At Baltimore will likewise be a tough challenge for them even after getting their QB back. Beyond that I don't see tremendous difficulty with their schedule once Rothlisberger returns to the field. I'll predict they finish 10-6, earning a wild card, losing the division to the Ravens who will sweep the season series.

[Packerarcher]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Roethlisberger-suspended-by-NFL-042110

I think this is absolute BS...get ready to do this to EVERY player that now goes to a bar and hooks up with ladies. If I am Big Ben I would challenge this.

(again I think he is a D bag)

Look how many people have slept around and NEVER been accused of this. Ben's already been accused of sexual assault twice. He's either sexually assaulting these girls or treating them like absolute crap and bordering right on the edge of assault. I tend to think the latter. There's an outisde chance he found two gold digging liars, but that seems so remote and slim that I won't even consider it.

The NFL, the Steelers organization. It's a privilege to be a part of them, NOT a right. This isn't the law. If he was convicted of a crime for his sleezy actions, I'd be sort of outraged too. If the NFL suspends him, they have the right to whatever conduct policy they choose and if they think being a sleeze ball, is enough to suspend a guy, then Ben can go find a different job where being a sleeze ball is OK. I would have liked to seen a year. That way he's out of football for a year, and hopefully his career and financial well being is ruined. As far as I'm concerned, he did it to himself.

Yeah there would never be a chance of two gold digging BITCHES out there,wake up. Woman or man there will always be people willing to wreck another persons life to get money without working for it.

[Pugger]

This suspension isn't just for one single incident. It is because of a pattern of behavior, using Goodells words. I find it disturbing that this Neanderthal is socializing with underage co-eds at his age. Nothing good was gonna come out of this situation. Mixing a famous athlete, underage women and alcohol will always come out bad.

[Joemailman]

If the suspension is enough to cause Roethlisberger to change his disgusting social behavior, the NFL and The Steelers will have done him a big favor. The worst thing for Ben would have been for the league and the team to defend and cover for him because of who he is. That's what people did for Mike Tyson until he ended up in jail for sexual assault. Ben was headed down that road.

[Bossman641]

Maybe somebody else will know the answer to this. Roethlisberger is being criticized for buying drinks for underage girls.... THEY WERE IN A BAR THOUGH.

At Champaign and other college towns I've been to you can get into the bars if 18 or 19. Does anyone know if that was the case at this bar or was it strictly 21 and over?

[pbmax]

What it boils down to is she said she didn't want it and he says she did. He has been accused two times of this I know but neither one led to criminal charges.
How about this? He was suspended in part for providing alcohol to underage patrons? The fact that he then tried to have sex with one in the bar just makes him look like a perv. Its hard to imagine I have more game than a Starting NFL QB.

As Florio has pointed out, basing a conduct policy only on arrests and convictions is problematic. In the case of an arrest, the local police have authority and power to detain or release someone who may (or may not) have been engaged in illegality. The police in the GA town let Ben leave after cursory questioning. They also failed to secure evidence from the crime scene and the bathroom was cleaned with bleach and Spic and Span. Such a policy gives the police the chance to help the local team/hero out.

Basing it on a conviction, to my way of thinking is confusing not guilty with innocent. OJ isn't innocent. But he was found not guilty.

An employer is not under any requirement to act under the rules of a criminal court. If Ben doesn't want drunk girls to be able to get him in trouble, then he can stop buying them drinks and stop trying to have his way with them. No one can get him in trouble like this unless he proactively involves himself.

well he wasnt convicted of that either, buying underagers drinks, or he would be subject to a gross misdemenor regardless if they had a "fake"

I still think he is a D-bag but I do not think he should have been suspended.
As the prosecutor explained, they declined to proceed with that charge because they logically would have had to site the girl for underage drinking, and they did not want to add that to ordeal. But there was ample evidence from several sources, that he was buying the drinks.