Early 53 Estimate

[OS PA]

QB - Aaron Rodgers, Matt Flynn
FB - Quinn Johnson, John Kuhn
RB - Ryan Grant, Brandon Jackson, James Starks
WR - Donald Driver, Greg Jennings, Jordy Nelson, James Jones
TE - Jermichael Finley, Donald Lee, Andrew Quarless, Spencer Havner
OT - Chad Clifton, Bryan Bulaga, Allen Barbre
OG - Daryn Colledge, Jason Spitz
OC - Jason Spitz, Scott Wells, Evan Dietrich-Smith
OG - Josh Sitton, Jason Spitz, Evan Dietrich-Smith
OT - Mark Tauscher, TJ Lang

DL - Cullen Jenkins, Ryan Pickett, Johnny Jolly, BJ Raji, Jarius Wynn, Mike Neal, CJ Wilson
OLB - Clay Matthews, Brad Jones, Brady Poppinga
ILB - AJ Hawk, Brandon Chillar, Nick Barnett, Desmond Bishop, Cyril Obiozor

CB - Charles Woodson, Al Harris, Tramon Williams, Pat Lee, Brandon Underwood, Will Blackmon
SS - Morgan Burnett, Atari Bigby
FS - Nick Collins, Derrick Martin
K - Mason Crosby
P - Chris Bryan
LS - Brett Goode


This is my best guess at what the roster would look like if we started the season tomorrow.

I am not sure if we'll keep Evan Dietrich Smith over Newhouse, this also leaves out Breno Giocomini. I could see us cutting Barbre instead if he doesn't player better at LT.

This is leaving out Trevor Ford and Jarrett Bush at DB and it's taking into account the chance that Jeremy Thompson has to either retire or be put on IR for the season.

Also, given our TE's play like WR's I felt that in order to keep both Havner and our new TE, we may just go with 4 wide receivers instead of the annual 5.

Anybody have a better guess at the 53 man roster?

[RashanGary]

I really can't stand the corners. Not real satisfied with the OLB depth either.

[Lurker64]

Offense(24)
QB(2): Aaron Rodgers, Matt Flynn.
RB(3): Ryan Grant, Brandon Jackson, James Starks
FB(2): Quinn Johnson, Korey Hall.
TE(3): Jermichael Finley, Spencer Havner, Andrew Quarless
WR(5): Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Brett Swain.
T(4): Chad Clifton, T.J Lang, Bryan Bulaga, Mark Tauscher.
G(3): Josh Sitton, Jason Spitz, Daryn Colledge.
C(2): Scott Wells, Evan Dietrich-Smith

(Possibly Newhouse beats out EDS for the last interior OL spot, and Spitz/Wells are the Center duo.)

Defense(26)
NT(2): Ryan Pickett, B.J. Raji
DT(4): Cullen Jenkins, Johnny Jolly, Mike Neal, Jarius Wynn
(could be Harrell instead of Wynn if healthy, or Ronald Talley/CJ Wilson if he plays great, but four guys are going for one roster spot here).
ILB(4): A.J. Hawk, Nick Barnett, Brandon Chillar, Desmond Bishop.
OLB(5): Clay Matthews, Brad Jones, Cyril Obiozor, Brady Poppinga, Jeremy Thompson.
FS(2): Nick Collins, Derrick Martin
SS(2): Morgan Burnett, Atari Bigby.
CB(7): Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams, Pat Lee, Brandon Underwood, Al Harris, Josh Bell, Will Blackmon.


Specialists(3)
K(1): Mason Crosby
P(1): Damned if I know, but somebody.
LS(1): Brett Goode.

Pretty confident in the numbers, if not the names. 6 DL, 9 OL, 10-11 DBs, 9-10 LBs.

[Brohm]

Just some thoughts:

I think Barbre = Moll last year. Get him some LT reps and trade him for whatever at the end of camp.

J. Thompson is probably done with his neck, leaving Popps as a swing OLB and opening up a spot for Harrell if he can come back. Or another OL.

Newhouse will make it somewhere (need a real back-up OG to develop). The Spitz/Wells Spitz/Colledge competitions are coming to a head, someone will have to go if not this year next. Giacomini has to play out of his mind and grab a starting position or he is gone as a RT only.

[pbmax]

I do think, unless Barbre has a terrible tendency problem with the right side of the O Line, that he is being fed to the wolves on the Left side. If he can't pass block on the right, is it going to go better for him on the left?

[wist43]

I really can't stand the corners. Not real satisfied with the OLB depth either.

JH, weren't you just setting setting me straight in another thread b/c I made the exact same argument??? lol...

We got better with Burnett I think... but TT did nothing else to help a vastly undermanned and overrated defense.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Offense(24)
QB(2): Aaron Rodgers, Matt Flynn.
RB(3): Ryan Grant, Brandon Jackson, James Starks
FB(2): Quinn Johnson, Korey Hall
TE(3): Jermichael Finley, Donald Lee, Andrew Quarless
WR(5): Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Brett Swain.
T(4): Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Bryan Bulaga, T.J Lang
G(3): Josh Sitton, Jason Spitz, Daryn Colledge
C(2): Scott Wells, Evan Dietrich-Smith

NT(2): Ryan Pickett, B.J. Raji
DT(4): Cullen Jenkins, Johnny Jolly, Mike Neal, Jarius Wynn
ILB(4): A.J. Hawk, Nick Barnett, Brandon Chillar, Desmond Bishop
OLB(5): Clay Matthews, Brad Jones, Cyril Obiozor, Brady Poppinga, Jeremy Thompson.
FS(2): Nick Collins, Derrick Martin
SS(2): Morgan Burnett, Atari Bigby
CB(7): Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams, Pat Lee, Brandon Underwood, Al Harris, Josh Bell, Will Blackmon

Specialists(3)
K(1): Mason Crosby
P(1): Damned if I know, but somebody
LS(1): Brett Goode

Pretty close to mine. But I'd say Donald Lee will be on this team. Also, we don't know if Jeremy Thompson will be back yet. Josh Bell is probably on the bubble. It seems like management feels Brad Jones and/or Obiozor will be good players.

[Lurker64]

Offense(24)
QB(2): Aaron Rodgers, Matt Flynn.
RB(3): Ryan Grant, Brandon Jackson, James Starks
FB(2): Quinn Johnson, Korey Hall
TE(3): Jermichael Finley, Donald Lee, Andrew Quarless
WR(5): Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Brett Swain.
T(4): Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Bryan Bulaga, T.J Lang
G(3): Josh Sitton, Jason Spitz, Daryn Colledge
C(2): Scott Wells, Evan Dietrich-Smith

NT(2): Ryan Pickett, B.J. Raji
DT(4): Cullen Jenkins, Johnny Jolly, Mike Neal, Jarius Wynn
ILB(4): A.J. Hawk, Nick Barnett, Brandon Chillar, Desmond Bishop
OLB(5): Clay Matthews, Brad Jones, Cyril Obiozor, Brady Poppinga, Jeremy Thompson.
FS(2): Nick Collins, Derrick Martin
SS(2): Morgan Burnett, Atari Bigby
CB(7): Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams, Pat Lee, Brandon Underwood, Al Harris, Josh Bell, Will Blackmon

Specialists(3)
K(1): Mason Crosby
P(1): Damned if I know, but somebody
LS(1): Brett Goode

Pretty close to mine. But I'd say Donald Lee will be on this team. Also, we don't know if Jeremy Thompson will be back yet. Josh Bell is probably on the bubble. It seems like management feels Brad Jones and/or Obiozor will be good players.

There were a few toss ups on there. I went with Havner over Lee because I think Lee is on the decline and Havner is on the rise. I think of the CBs, both Bell and Blackmon are on the bubble and somebody who shows up in camp and does well in coverage and returns respectively can steal either of those jobs. There's a four man competition for one roster spot at DE. The second fullback is a toss-up between Kuhn and Hall. I'm guessing Hall sticks, because Kuhn's primary advantage over Hall was as a hammer and a rusher, but who knows. Jeremy Thompson could be off this roster, but I have an inkling Ted is going to grab Bryan Thomas from the Jets and he'd take an OLB spot (presumably away from Jeremy Thompson).

It would take a miracle for either Barbre or Giacomini to make the roster, but miracles sometimes happen. I think the bubble OL is EDS, as Newhouse could eke him out (as Spitz and Wells can both play C as well). Keeping only 4 WR is possible as well, but unlikely.

[3irty1]

Offense(24)
QB(2): Aaron Rodgers, Matt Flynn.
RB(3): Ryan Grant, Brandon Jackson, James Starks
FB(2): Quinn Johnson, Korey Hall
TE(3): Jermichael Finley, Donald Lee, Andrew Quarless
WR(5): Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Brett Swain.
T(4): Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Bryan Bulaga, T.J Lang
G(3): Josh Sitton, Jason Spitz, Daryn Colledge
C(2): Scott Wells, Evan Dietrich-Smith

NT(2): Ryan Pickett, B.J. Raji
DT(4): Cullen Jenkins, Johnny Jolly, Mike Neal, Jarius Wynn
ILB(4): A.J. Hawk, Nick Barnett, Brandon Chillar, Desmond Bishop
OLB(5): Clay Matthews, Brad Jones, Cyril Obiozor, Brady Poppinga, Jeremy Thompson.
FS(2): Nick Collins, Derrick Martin
SS(2): Morgan Burnett, Atari Bigby
CB(7): Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams, Pat Lee, Brandon Underwood, Al Harris, Josh Bell, Will Blackmon

Specialists(3)
K(1): Mason Crosby
P(1): Damned if I know, but somebody
LS(1): Brett Goode

Pretty close to mine. But I'd say Donald Lee will be on this team. Also, we don't know if Jeremy Thompson will be back yet. Josh Bell is probably on the bubble. It seems like management feels Brad Jones and/or Obiozor will be good players.

There were a few toss ups on there. I went with Havner over Lee because I think Lee is on the decline and Havner is on the rise. I think of the CBs, both Bell and Blackmon are on the bubble and somebody who shows up in camp and does well in coverage and returns respectively can steal either of those jobs. There's a four man competition for one roster spot at DE. The second fullback is a toss-up between Kuhn and Hall. I'm guessing Hall sticks, because Kuhn's primary advantage over Hall was as a hammer and a rusher, but who knows. Jeremy Thompson could be off this roster, but I have an inkling Ted is going to grab Bryan Thomas from the Jets and he'd take an OLB spot (presumably away from Jeremy Thompson).

It would take a miracle for either Barbre or Giacomini to make the roster, but miracles sometimes happen. I think the bubble OL is EDS, as Newhouse could eke him out (as Spitz and Wells can both play C as well). Keeping only 4 WR is possible as well, but unlikely.

I think Barbre and Giacomini have a better shot of making the team than EDS. Whatever kept Giacomini off the PS must still exist. EDS has already survived one trip to the PS so it might make sense to send him back. That's my thinking anyways. Newhouse should definitely make the team.

[3irty1]

There are a couple chronic teases and just-a-guys who can't stick around forever. Some names that come to mind:

Korey Hall, maybe the odd man out with all the FBs and TEs on the roster
John Kuhn, "
Colledge, Bad attitude and is looking more and more replaceable all the time
Donald Lee, not contributing as much as his check would indicate.
Havner, some off season trouble and a crowded roster for FBs and TEs
Harrell, supposedly looking and feeling great again
Poppinga, relic from the bob sanders era
Jeremy Thompson, injured and tarzan/jane poster child
Jarrett Bush, would get cut if he didn't have naked pictures of TT
Blackmon, nearly worthless on defense and injury prone hasn't progressed since being drafted

Some of these guys you hate to just cut and get nothing for like College, Poppinga, Lee, and the FB's who could likely be productive starters for another team.

[RashanGary]

I really can't stand the corners. Not real satisfied with the OLB depth either.

JH, weren't you just setting setting me straight in another thread b/c I made the exact same argument??? lol...

We got better with Burnett I think... but TT did nothing else to help a vastly undermanned and overrated defense.


I agree with you that CB and OLB (especially depth) are the weakest spots on our team after this draft. I don't agree that a GM should pass up on the opportunities to add real quality to the team because of a desperate attempt to fill that perceived hole.

Here's a blast from the past:

QB Brett Favre 36
RB Samkon Gado 23
RB Ahman Green 28
FB William Henderson 34
FB Vonta Leach 24
WR Donald Driver 30
WR Robert Ferguson 26
TE David Martin 26
TE Bubba Franks 27
TE Donald Lee 25
LT Chad Clifton 29
LG Scott Wells 28
LG Adrian Klemm 28
C Mike Flanagan 32
RG Will Whitticker 23
RT Mark Tauscher 28
LDE Aaron Kampman 26
LDT Grady Jackson 32
RDT Cullen Jenkins 24
RDE Kabeer Gbaja-Biamila 28
LLB Paris Lenon 28
LLB Na'il Diggs 27
MLB Nick Barnett 24
RLB Robert W. Thomas 25
RLB Paris Lenon 28
LCB Ahmad Carroll 22
RCB Al Harris 31
SS Mark Roman 28
FS Nick Collins 22
K Ryan Longwell 31
P B.J. Sander 25
PR Antonio Chatman 26

[pbmax]

Colledge, Bad attitude and ...
Nick Collins (stayed away from voluntary stuff in 2009), Al Harris (talking to Wilde summer of 2006 or 7), Aaron Kampman (last year wouldn't talk to media until camp), Ryan Grant (an ACTUAL holdout), Greg Jennings (testy interview as he was not as productive as he had been in previous seasons and everyone was speculating why) and possibly Donald Lee (don't remember) have all made perfectly clear (or outright public) that they were unhappy about their contract or playing status on the team.

Colledge has one radio interview reported by Bedard (not sourced to anyone we can identify) in which he expressed his unhappiness with be a RFA instead of a UFA. Each Rat would be mortally offended if the terms of your work conditions changed right before you were about to cash in.

Tempest in a Teapot. And no different that what has gone before.

Of course, he could still suck all season long, but at least we will have video evidence of that.

[RashanGary]

Here's where and why I disagree with some of the things conclusions you draw.


You look at our roster now and see CB depth and OLB depth as a very large concern, one that is evidence that Ted will never build a champion because that is sure to haunt us this year, sure to be the reason we don't win it.


Here's why I disagree. Look at the rosters of the past. Our starters in 2005, for a large part, are worse than our backups. Just about every good player on that team is between the ages of 29 and 36. Just about every good player on our current team is between the ages of 22 and 28. Ted is continuing to resign these guys into their 2nd deals. The whole team appears to be going UP. The new team is incredibly young and strong on the DL and finally looks to be rounding the corner on the OL. WE have a young franchise QB. We have weapons all over the place. We have depth at just about every position, although not all of them and no team in the lague does. Our holes today (Woodson/Tramon Williams at CB and Matthews/Jones at OLB) would have been considered strengths on teams of the past and on other teams in the league today.


This is a pretty great team. It has it's many strong points and what looks like two spots that we'd like to improve, but overall, it's a better team than even last year and if 2007 and 2009, we were competitors, we look to be front runners in 2010.

You're taking the absolute most negative possible view point in every situiaton. I think the reality of this team is that it's pretty great.

And your assumption that teams have to be perfectly balanced, I just don't agree with. PB made this point in another thread, but if we win the SB, we won't be the first team to win with the strength of our defense being the DL and the weakest point being the CB's.

[falco]

Tempest in a Teapot. And no different that what has gone before.

You can bang this drum all day long PB, and people just won't listen.

Its like last year when everyone was mortally offended by the claims that Nick Collins was unhappy and holding out... everyone got upset when it came out that his dad had passed away... yet no one acknowledged the fact that even his agent claimed he was holding out due to contract issues!

[Bretsky]

I'm enjoying Wist and JH's debate.
Extreme negativity vs. Extreme Optomism.
And both are making good points.
I find myself in between.

[RashanGary]

Wist's main point, that I undersand, is that this year the problem is CB and OLB. Next year it will be something else. Because Ted never focuses on need, we'll never fill those final holes and always be a good, but not great team.

That's why I showed the 2005 roster. We're finding players much faster than we're losing them.

The whole situation (financial, age, quality, depth) has done a 180 from what Ted inherited. Both teams 10-6 then and 11-5 last year were borderline playoff teams. That team was hitting a cap wall, had almost no good young talent and the best players had already seen their best days. This team has a ton of room to spend, most of our good players, their best days are ahead of them and has very little aging talent.

[Bretsky]

I take Wist's point one step further

We are close to a Super Bowl team and I think he feels TT won't deviate away from the long term focus of building a solid team into a short term focus of finding the guys to fill out weakness and win a championship.

I went back and looked at that second round pick. A few things stick out.

Two LB's we might have been interested in went in the five picks before us, and I think a couple others went earlier that round as well.

So while I would have liked to see a pass rushing OLB, they were really picked through at that level and it was a while before the next OLB was drafted.

On the other hand, there were CB's selected shortly after the Packers pick that might have really added quality. So if you of the view that one of our big needs was CB then there was quality/value there IMO.

[mission]

Tempest in a Teapot. And no different that what has gone before.

You can bang this drum all day long PB, and people just won't listen.

Its like last year when everyone was mortally offended by the claims that Nick Collins was unhappy and holding out... everyone got upset when it came out that his dad had passed away... yet no one acknowledged the fact that even his agent claimed he was holding out due to contract issues!

this is exactly it.. colledge was/is/has been the only one so vocal with the media about it.

let your agent do his thing, this is a business afterall... but dont get caught up quoted in the paper and on radio about how you deserve better and all of that.

be a professional.

[pbmax]

this is exactly it.. colledge was/is/has been the only one so vocal with the media about it.
mish, his one public statement was to deny Bedard's report on the radio interview. We have one report (source unknown) without a verifiable record of what he said in the interview.

So that is ONE possible statement of unhappiness.

Less than Harris giving quotes to Wilde and less than Grant's talkativeness during his holdout.

[vince]

Offense(25)
QB(2): Aaron Rodgers, Matt Flynn
RB(3): Ryan Grant, Brandon Jackson, James Starks
FB(2): Quinn Johnson, Korey Hall
TE(3): Jermichael Finley, Spencer Havner, Andrew Quarless
WR(5): Greg Jennings, Donald Driver, Jordy Nelson, James Jones, Brett Swain
T(4): Chad Clifton, T.J Lang, Bryan Bulaga, Mark Tauscher
G(3): Josh Sitton, Daryn Colledge, Marshall Newhouse
C(3): Scott Wells, Jason Spitz, EDS

Defense(25)
NT(2): Ryan Pickett, B.J. Raji
DT(5): Cullen Jenkins, Johnny Jolly, Mike Neal, Justin Harrell, CJ Wilson
ILB(4): A.J. Hawk, Nick Barnett, Brandon Chillar, Desmond Bishop
OLB(4): Clay Matthews, Brad Jones, Cyril Obiozor, Brady Poppinga
FS(2): Nick Collins, Derrick Martin
SS(2): Morgan Burnett, Atari Bigby
CB(6): Charles Woodson, Tramon Williams, Pat Lee, Brandon Underwood, Al Harris, Will Blackmon

Specialists(3)
K(1): Mason Crosby
P(1): Chris Bryan
LS(1): Brett Goode

Maybe Bell sticks if Harris is PUP'd.

[3irty1]

Colledge, Bad attitude and ...
Nick Collins (stayed away from voluntary stuff in 2009), Al Harris (talking to Wilde summer of 2006 or 7), Aaron Kampman (last year wouldn't talk to media until camp), Ryan Grant (an ACTUAL holdout), Greg Jennings (testy interview as he was not as productive as he had been in previous seasons and everyone was speculating why) and possibly Donald Lee (don't remember) have all made perfectly clear (or outright public) that they were unhappy about their contract or playing status on the team.

Colledge has one radio interview reported by Bedard (not sourced to anyone we can identify) in which he expressed his unhappiness with be a RFA instead of a UFA. Each Rat would be mortally offended if the terms of your work conditions changed right before you were about to cash in.

Tempest in a Teapot. And no different that what has gone before.

Of course, he could still suck all season long, but at least we will have video evidence of that.

All those guys you mentioned are not replaceable. Colledge has a false sense of entitlement. The Packers don't need him.

[Gunakor]

Colledge, Bad attitude and ...
Nick Collins (stayed away from voluntary stuff in 2009), Al Harris (talking to Wilde summer of 2006 or 7), Aaron Kampman (last year wouldn't talk to media until camp), Ryan Grant (an ACTUAL holdout), Greg Jennings (testy interview as he was not as productive as he had been in previous seasons and everyone was speculating why) and possibly Donald Lee (don't remember) have all made perfectly clear (or outright public) that they were unhappy about their contract or playing status on the team.

Colledge has one radio interview reported by Bedard (not sourced to anyone we can identify) in which he expressed his unhappiness with be a RFA instead of a UFA. Each Rat would be mortally offended if the terms of your work conditions changed right before you were about to cash in.

Tempest in a Teapot. And no different that what has gone before.

Of course, he could still suck all season long, but at least we will have video evidence of that.

All those guys you mentioned are not replaceable. Colledge has a false sense of entitlement. The Packers don't need him.

Like I was saying yesterday, the only reason the Packers don't need Colledge is if they have 4 better OG's on their roster come September. Otherwise they have to keep him even if only in a backup role. You keep your best 53 players. Colledge's sense of entitlement means nothing to me if he's the best reserve interior lineman I have on my roster. Big guys get hurt, so if Colledge is the best insurance policy I have, that's who I go with.

[Bretsky]

If they don't trade Colledge I still think he will have a chance to be one of the starters at OG. Glad there is plenty of competition now.

[Gunakor]

If they don't trade Colledge I still think he will have a chance to be one of the starters at OG. Glad there is plenty of competition now.

I hope Colledge does win that starting job, because the alternative is Jason Spitz. While I think Spitz might be marginally better as a starter than Colledge at LG, he's substantially better as a backup at all 3 interior OL positions. Big guys get hurt, I just think having Spitz in that reserve role would provide better insurance for us without having to play musical chairs on the OL when someone gets hurt again.

[pbmax]

All those guys you mentioned are not replaceable. Colledge has a false sense of entitlement. The Packers don't need him.
Kampman proved replaceable and Lee might as well.

But we will see about Colledge shortly. I still think he is the best LG on the roster. Only Sitton at guard has performed better. And he isn't moving.

[Patler]

I went back and looked at that second round pick. A few things stick out.

Two LB's we might have been interested in went in the five picks before us, and I think a couple others went earlier that round as well.

So while I would have liked to see a pass rushing OLB, they were really picked through at that level and it was a while before the next OLB was drafted.

On the other hand, there were CB's selected shortly after the Packers pick that might have really added quality. So if you of the view that one of our big needs was CB then there was quality/value there IMO.

From listening to TT and reading his comments, I get the feeling he was not overly impressed with the corners available to him. Time will tell if he was right or not.

[wist43]

You guys are seeing my point... and I do, in fact, see yours. I like this team... I wouldn't be saying I think we're not too far off if I didn't.

I think we're close enough to start being more aggressive in acquiring high end talent at positions of need. That doesn't mean I say trade up to reach for a position; or standing pat and jumping your board to reach for position - absolutely not.

What I am saber rattling for is to move up or down to fit your board so as to be in position to draft potential difference makers at positions of need.

As I said, I didn't have time to study this years draft... that's TT's job; and, I have a reasonable amount of faith that TT is a decent talent evaluator, and the Packers have a quality player personnel structure.

So, if TT does his homework, I don't mind dumping a 3rd and/or 4th to move up to address a need. Where you get into trouble is when you move up to address need, and then reach for a guy - again, that is TT's job to get that right. He went up and got Burnett... nice move IMO.

However, for the drafting of a TE and two DE's at the expense of moving up or down to target CB and LB is nonsensical to me. As I've made my case for this in other threads I won't belabor the point.

In total, all these guys may be good players down the line, but other than Burnett and maybe Bulaga, TT didn't do much to advance us this year, or maybe even next year, assuming player loses or dropoff (Harris).

I'm much more concerned about CB and LB than most of you... as Ron Wolf said, "you can never have enough corners"; and in a 3-4 you need your LB's to be playmakers - we have one, Matthews; and 3 JAG's. I like Jones, but the overall mediocrity that is the 3 of them... I think will sufficiently hold this team back - we needed front seven help, but it is much more glaring at LB - and what's missing isn't depth, what's missing is front line talent - the depth is on the field.

[Lurker64]

I think you might be underestimating how much we helped out the offensive line this year. If we could protect Rodgers better last year, we probably win against Tampa Bay, at least one against Minnesota, and that playoff game against the Cardinals.

Defense last year cleaned up against mid-level QBs, but struggled against elite ones. But the offense definitely demonstrated that they can keep up with elite QBs in a shoot-out. Who knows, maybe another year in the system and a refinement of the scheme will make the defense incrementally more effective against elite QBs.

[wist43]

I think you might be underestimating how much we helped out the offensive line this year. If we could protect Rodgers better last year, we probably win against Tampa Bay, at least one against Minnesota, and that playoff game against the Cardinals.

Defense last year cleaned up against mid-level QBs, but struggled against elite ones. But the offense definitely demonstrated that they can keep up with elite QBs in a shoot-out. Who knows, maybe another year in the system and a refinement of the scheme will make the defense incrementally more effective against elite QBs.

To me, the offense was never the problem... the defense was always my main concern, I figured we'd score pts.

TT drafted defense to be sure, but other than Burnett, he didn't address his weakest position at all, and likewise didn't address a glaring lack of depth and development at CB. Instead, he restocked an already solid position and ignored CB, essentually saying Lee is a player.

Maybe he really thinks Lee is a player, but man he looked completely out of his league and overmatched every time we saw him. I wrote him off a while ago... hasn't even entered into my thinking at the position. Lee is the gamble here I guess.

[Patler]

However, for the drafting of a TE and two DE's at the expense of moving up or down to target CB and LB is nonsensical to me. As I've made my case for this in other threads I won't belabor the point.

In total, all these guys may be good players down the line, but other than Burnett and maybe Bulaga, TT didn't do much to advance us this year, or maybe even next year, assuming player loses or dropoff (Harris).

I'm much more concerned about CB and LB than most of you... as Ron Wolf said, "you can never have enough corners"; and in a 3-4 you need your LB's to be playmakers - we have one, Matthews; and 3 JAG's. I like Jones, but the overall mediocrity that is the 3 of them... I think will sufficiently hold this team back - we needed front seven help, but it is much more glaring at LB - and what's missing isn't depth, what's missing is front line talent - the depth is on the field.

Reading between the lines of some of his comments, I think TT would have liked to get a corner and/or an OLB, too; but when the options were presented, he didn't like them any better than what he had on the roster already, nor anywhere near as well as players available at other positions.

TT wasn't about to take a corner or OLB just to take one.

[Joemailman]

I agree with Wist about the OLB's. This is one area that needed to be addressed, but wasn't. The Packera are 1 injury away from being unacceptably weak there. Unfortunately there was a run on OLB's in the 2nd round with 4 taken between the 11th and 21st picks. I wonder if TT thought he was going to be able to get one of those guys. Hopefully, Kevin Greene can get Cyril Obiozor ready to have an impact. He's the best bet of any of the reserves right now.

[RashanGary]

Brad Jones had 4 sacks in 8 games. If he gets 8 sacks in 16 games, he's an above average pass rushing OLB. Matthews is a star.

Last year everyone, including Wist, was pissed off that Ted ignored the DL and once again wasn't concerned with winning. They turned out really good. Now everyone is doubting Brad Jones and complaining that we got exactly what they wanted last year. We'll see how it pans out. Ted has a funny way of looking smart when we look back. And I have a feeling that DL depth is going to look really smart some day soon too. I also have a feeling Brad Jones is better than some people believe.

[RashanGary]

Bulaga, Burnett, DL pass rush talent, OL depth, a really talented 2nd TE option, a really talented RB that slipped with a season ending shoulder injury. . . .

I think we'll look back very fondly on this draft.

[vince]

I'm feelin' ya JH. The Neal pick is growing on me and the athleticism of some of these guys is off the charts. Ted & Co. have proven (to me anyway) that they deserve the benefit of our doubt.

I'm with Joe too on the OLB spot though. I hope Obi really develops this offseason, because we may need him. McCarthy's comments about guys making their biggest leap from year 1 to year 2 will be put to test here. Yeah Jones had 4 sacks and that's not terrible, he wasn't good enough to keep the Cards from taking Matthews out of the game by sliding protection his way. I do think there is a legitimate chance both Jones and Obi develop into quality OLB's and will be able to give the team what it needs. I would have liked to see another pass rusher in the mix there though to at least hedge our bets and protect against injury.

I'm pulling for Jones and Obi for sure, and also for Neal to bring that demension too from inside.

[Gunakor]

I think you might be underestimating how much we helped out the offensive line this year. If we could protect Rodgers better last year, we probably win against Tampa Bay, at least one against Minnesota, and that playoff game against the Cardinals.

Defense last year cleaned up against mid-level QBs, but struggled against elite ones. But the offense definitely demonstrated that they can keep up with elite QBs in a shoot-out. Who knows, maybe another year in the system and a refinement of the scheme will make the defense incrementally more effective against elite QBs.

To me, the offense was never the problem... the defense was always my main concern, I figured we'd score pts.

TT drafted defense to be sure, but other than Burnett, he didn't address his weakest position at all, and likewise didn't address a glaring lack of depth and development at CB. Instead, he restocked an already solid position and ignored CB, essentually saying Lee is a player.

Maybe he really thinks Lee is a player, but man he looked completely out of his league and overmatched every time we saw him. I wrote him off a while ago... hasn't even entered into my thinking at the position. Lee is the gamble here I guess.

My guess is it's Brandon Underwood that emerges as the legit corner. Pat Lee looks a bit lost in zone. Underwood could excel in Dom's defense.

[Gunakor]

I'm feelin' ya JH. The Neal pick is growing on me and the athleticism of some of these guys is off the charts. Ted & Co. have proven (to me anyway) that they deserve the benefit of our doubt.

I'm with Joe too on the OLB spot though. I hope Obi really develops this offseason, because we may need him. McCarthy's comments about guys making their biggest leap from year 1 to year 2 will be put to test here. Yeah Jones had 4 sacks and that's not terrible, he wasn't good enough to keep the Cards from taking Matthews out of the game by sliding protection his way. I do think there is a legitimate chance both Jones and Obi develop into quality OLB's and will be able to give the team what it needs. I would have liked to see another pass rusher in the mix there though to at least hedge our bets and protect against injury.

I'm pulling for Jones and Obi for sure, and also for Neal to bring that demension too from inside.

You guys are forgetting that we have Brandon Chillar and Desmond Bishop as reserve LB's too. Obi isn't the only one we have stashed there. Pop isn't the worst option as a reserve either, having a few years starting experience. You wouldn't want these guys starting all 16 games for you, but you could do far worse for backups.

[swede]

I went back and looked at that second round pick. A few things stick out.

Two LB's we might have been interested in went in the five picks before us, and I think a couple others went earlier that round as well.

So while I would have liked to see a pass rushing OLB, they were really picked through at that level and it was a while before the next OLB was drafted.

On the other hand, there were CB's selected shortly after the Packers pick that might have really added quality. So if you of the view that one of our big needs was CB then there was quality/value there IMO.

From listening to TT and reading his comments, I get the feeling he was not overly impressed with the corners available to him. Time will tell if he was right or not.

I taped the combines and I watched them again today. Kyle Wilson and Patrick Robinson looked very smooth. Haden looked okay. Very few of the other corners stood out, and many were 5' 10"ish. TT mentioned in the post-draft that the Packers simply will not select a short corner. If Patrick Robinson had made it to our 2nd pick we might have gone that way, but that didn't even come close.

(BTW Bulaga is a beast, but Okung and Trent Williams were studly as well...Newhouse was all right with a big motor but not real nifty. He's already strong but he needs to develop his lower body. There was nothing wrong with Mike Neal either. CJ Wilson did not really impress but he looked like he belonged anyway. I couldn't find combine video on Burnett, but he benched 16 reps so he was there. )