SOME GRADES/COMMENTS ON PACK DRAFT

[Bretsky]

http://www.620wtmj.com/sports/billmichaels/92090409.html

[Lurker64]

People who think Neal isn't a good fit to play the 5-technique spot are crazy. What else would you want playing the 5-technique other than an athletic 300 pound man with long arms who is rangy and powerful? I mean if Kal-El son of Krypton were available, that would be preferable but I don't think he was eligible for the draft this year.

Also, the first comment saying we should take Cody over Neal is frankly laughable. Cody has bust written all over him, and it's not as though we don't already have two highly paid nose tackles.

[Tony Oday]

People who think Neal isn't a good fit to play the 5-technique spot are crazy. What else would you want playing the 5-technique other than an athletic 300 pound man with long arms who is rangy and powerful? I mean if Kal-El son of Krypton were available, that would be preferable but I don't think he was eligible for the draft this year.

Also, the first comment saying we should take Cody over Neal is frankly laughable. Cody has bust written all over him, and it's not as though we don't already have two highly paid nose tackles.

Come son of Jor-El, kneel before Zod! Snootchie-bootchies. Ehehehehe!

[swede]

People who think Neal isn't a good fit to play the 5-technique spot are crazy. What else would you want playing the 5-technique other than an athletic 300 pound man with long arms who is rangy and powerful? I mean if Kal-El son of Krypton were available, that would be preferable but I don't think he was eligible for the draft this year.

Also, the first comment saying we should take Cody over Neal is frankly laughable. Cody has bust written all over him, and it's not as though we don't already have two highly paid nose tackles.

Come son of Jor-El, kneel before Zod! Snootchie-bootchies. Ehehehehe!

The high quality football post with a zing of humor from Lurker might be found on some other board.

It's the follow-up from Tony O'Day that kills me me. Like Paul following a David Letterman absurdity with a musical quote on the keyboard.

It's football jazz.

[pbmax]

I love reading message board comments. Today it has reinforced the idea that because I have heard of Cody, he must be better than Neal.

[retailguy]

People who think Neal isn't a good fit to play the 5-technique spot are crazy. What else would you want playing the 5-technique other than an athletic 300 pound man with long arms who is rangy and powerful? I mean if Kal-El son of Krypton were available, that would be preferable but I don't think he was eligible for the draft this year.

Also, the first comment saying we should take Cody over Neal is frankly laughable. Cody has bust written all over him, and it's not as though we don't already have two highly paid nose tackles.

Couldn't, at this point, you substitute the name "James Lee" for everything you said about Neal?

Now, that being said, I have faith in Ted's ability to evaluate talent, so hopefully the guy is motivated enough to get off the bench. Nonetheless, I think we all have to be "careful" when talking about talent. They all have "talent" or they wouldn't be in the position to be drafted.

Let's see Neal "bust his ass", and then I'm on board. Right now, I'm hopeful, but skeptical. These shots in the dark that Ted takes sometimes pay off, and sometimes they don't.

Another good DL guy is always a blessing. But, we do not need another Justin Harrell either...

[Patler]

People who think Neal isn't a good fit to play the 5-technique spot are crazy. What else would you want playing the 5-technique other than an athletic 300 pound man with long arms who is rangy and powerful? I mean if Kal-El son of Krypton were available, that would be preferable but I don't think he was eligible for the draft this year.

Also, the first comment saying we should take Cody over Neal is frankly laughable. Cody has bust written all over him, and it's not as though we don't already have two highly paid nose tackles.

Couldn't, at this point, you substitute the name "James Lee" for everything you said about Neal?

Now, that being said, I have faith in Ted's ability to evaluate talent, so hopefully the guy is motivated enough to get off the bench. Nonetheless, I think we all have to be "careful" when talking about talent. They all have "talent" or they wouldn't be in the position to be drafted.

Let's see Neal "bust his ass", and then I'm on board. Right now, I'm hopeful, but skeptical. These shots in the dark that Ted takes sometimes pay off, and sometimes they don't.

Another good DL guy is always a blessing. But, we do not need another Justin Harrell either...

Comparing Neal to James Lee? Are you kidding?

Neal rarely came off the field. Lee wasn't even a starter in college.
Neal was a captain. Lee's effort and commitment were questioned.
Neal was on everyone's draft boards. Lee was considered a potential FA at best.
Neal has a record of college performance and achievement. Lee did not.

James Lee was a true "shot in the dark". Neal has unquestioned NFL potential, just as most mid round draft picks have. Whether his potential will be maximized remains to be seen.

[Cleft Crusty]

Let's see Neal "bust his ass", and then I'm on board. .

Watch some college tape and step on deck, Ensign. Clefty wonders just where all these know-nothings come from with their rock solid strong opinions based on personal conjectures.

[RashanGary]

James Lee compares pretty well to DeShawn Wynn. High upside guys that had problems with dedication in college. Wynn was more productive than Lee, so I think Wynn probably had more of a chance than Lee, but similar in that they weren't committed to football.

Ted stays away from those types. Not Packer people for the most part.

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Let's see Neal "bust his ass", and then I'm on board. .

Watch some college tape and step on deck, Ensign. Clefty wonders just where all these know-nothings come from with their rock solid strong opinions based on personal conjectures.

Some fans just want to be negative all the time. Look at it this way, he can be negative and be right, and then scream from the rooftops "I told you so". Or he can be wrong, but the team is still doing well so what's it matter if Chicken Little said the sky was falling?

These people think of themselves as realists, when in reality they still see only what they want to. Maybe I should base a whole theory off of this(if someone hasn't already beat me to the punch). I see it on every sports message board I go to. Maybe I'll call it TPB's Theory on Fanatical Negativity.

The James Lee to Neal comparison really blows my mind as well. Why compare Lee to Neal? Because Lee was a bust and you feel as if Neal will be too? Also, Patler I'm disappointed. I figure you'd prove RG wrong with a statistical data comparison of Neal to Lee not just facts :lol:

[CaliforniaCheez]

People who think Neal isn't a good fit to play the 5-technique spot are crazy. What else would you want playing the 5-technique other than an athletic 300 pound man with long arms who is rangy and powerful?

His long arms are shorter than Bulga's short arms.

I remember reading shortly after the draft of Sitton that the Packers picked him way too early and he was not worth a 4th round pick.

Few of these draft "experts" ever review what they were right and wrong about.

Obviously the Packers found things about Neal that they liked.

Also these draft sites had 5th round grades on the Packers 6th and 7th round picks and a 2nd round grade on Burnett.

Ted drafted the highest ranked player on is board. One of the DE's replaces Montgomery. The other will replace Toribio, Talley, or Harrell.

It wasn't a good draft for CB's so Ted let it go rather than drafting some 5' 8" low quality one.

O-line competition is a good thing. Just cut Bulaga some slack as he will not be 22 before the season is over.

[Tony Oday]

People who think Neal isn't a good fit to play the 5-technique spot are crazy. What else would you want playing the 5-technique other than an athletic 300 pound man with long arms who is rangy and powerful? I mean if Kal-El son of Krypton were available, that would be preferable but I don't think he was eligible for the draft this year.

Also, the first comment saying we should take Cody over Neal is frankly laughable. Cody has bust written all over him, and it's not as though we don't already have two highly paid nose tackles.

Come son of Jor-El, kneel before Zod! Snootchie-bootchies. Ehehehehe!

The high quality football post with a zing of humor from Lurker might be found on some other board.

It's the follow-up from Tony O'Day that kills me me. Like Paul following a David Letterman absurdity with a musical quote on the keyboard.

It's football jazz.

Gotta have fun or you're dead :)

[rbaloha1]

James Lee compares pretty well to DeShawn Wynn. High upside guys that had problems with dedication in college. Wynn was more productive than Lee, so I think Wynn probably had more of a chance than Lee, but similar in that they weren't committed to football.

Ted stays away from those types. Not Packer people for the most part.

James Lee was accidently discovered when scouting Barnett. Sherman fell in love with the physical measurables. JL shared the starting position at OSU.

Wynn was a highly acclaimed high school player and talented SEC player. Wynn flashed ability (one time packer starter and believe had a 100 yard game). Injuries eventually was Wynn's undoing. Its a shame since Wynn had the talent and ability to possibly be the backup rb.

Wynn was a highly

[swede]

People who think Neal isn't a good fit to play the 5-technique spot are crazy. What else would you want playing the 5-technique other than an athletic 300 pound man with long arms who is rangy and powerful? I mean if Kal-El son of Krypton were available, that would be preferable but I don't think he was eligible for the draft this year.

Also, the first comment saying we should take Cody over Neal is frankly laughable. Cody has bust written all over him, and it's not as though we don't already have two highly paid nose tackles.

Come son of Jor-El, kneel before Zod! Snootchie-bootchies. Ehehehehe!

The high quality football post with a zing of humor from Lurker might be found on some other board.

It's the follow-up from Tony O'Day that kills me me. Like Paul following a David Letterman absurdity with a musical quote on the keyboard.

It's football jazz.

Gotta have fun or you're dead :)

I signed up for another Packer board and I lost interest when it took a week to activate my account. I wonder if I could get banned in less than a week if I posted a variation of your kneel before Zod smootchie bootchies remark in every post.




"What worries me about Bulaga is the two bad games against quality DE's. And I don't want to hear about the thyroid thing. You have to show up for every game in the NFL."

Hey, Bulaga lager! Kneel before the FerentZod! ootchie smootchie! eheheheh

[rbaloha1]

People who think Neal isn't a good fit to play the 5-technique spot are crazy. What else would you want playing the 5-technique other than an athletic 300 pound man with long arms who is rangy and powerful?

His long arms are shorter than Bulga's short arms.

I remember reading shortly after the draft of Sitton that the Packers picked him way too early and he was not worth a 4th round pick.

Few of these draft "experts" ever review what they were right and wrong about.

Obviously the Packers found things about Neal that they liked.

Also these draft sites had 5th round grades on the Packers 6th and 7th round picks and a 2nd round grade on Burnett.

Ted drafted the highest ranked player on is board. One of the DE's replaces Montgomery. The other will replace Toribio, Talley, or Harrell.

It wasn't a good draft for CB's so Ted let it go rather than drafting some 5' 8" low quality one.

O-line competition is a good thing. Just cut Bulaga some slack as he will not be 22 before the season is over.

Good point with Sitton -- was not invited to the combine.

Why all the second guessing when generally TT is correct and has rebuilt a mistake filled Sherman roster? Is it because of Kiper?

Gil Brandt stated that TT is the only GM in the last 2-3 years that still has every drafted player on the roster. (Okay TT doubters Thompson retired -- thus TT's perfect record is tarnished). Gee Whiz guys -- lets wait until the preseason. (I know its against backups and players not going to be on an NFL roster.)

[vince]

just a quick clarification - TT is the only GM in the league who has every player he drafted still on an NFL roster - now with the exception of Thompson. That includes his less-than-stellar 2007 draft. Brandt noted that a number of teams have as many as 7 draftees from the last three years out of the league.

[Lurker64]

just a quick clarification - TT is the only GM in the league who has every player he drafted still on an NFL roster - now with the exception of Thompson. That includes his less-than-stellar 2007 draft. Brandt noted that a number of teams have as many as 7 draftees from the last three years out of the league.

Every player he drafted over the last 3 years or something? Since Terrence Murphy is retired and I don't think Will Whittacker is tearing it up elsewhere.

[vince]

Oops. I try to clarify and just make it more confusing. Sorry. Yes Brandt covered the last 3 years' drafts - '07, '08 '09.

[cheesner]

just a quick clarification - TT is the only GM in the league who has every player he drafted still on an NFL roster - now with the exception of Thompson. That includes his less-than-stellar 2007 draft. Brandt noted that a number of teams have as many as 7 draftees from the last three years out of the league.

Every player he drafted over the last 3 years or something? Since Terrence Murphy is retired and I don't think Will Whittacker is tearing it up elsewhere.

Whittacker was drafted in 2005. But we did get a full season of starts from a 7th round pick.

Murphy was drafted in 2005 in the 2nd. He was looking really good until an injury ended his career.


so what your point?

[Lurker64]

just a quick clarification - TT is the only GM in the league who has every player he drafted still on an NFL roster - now with the exception of Thompson. That includes his less-than-stellar 2007 draft. Brandt noted that a number of teams have as many as 7 draftees from the last three years out of the league.

Every player he drafted over the last 3 years or something? Since Terrence Murphy is retired and I don't think Will Whittacker is tearing it up elsewhere.

Whittacker was drafted in 2005. But we did get a full season of starts from a 7th round pick.

Murphy was drafted in 2005 in the 2nd. He was looking really good until an injury ended his career.


so what your point?

I wasn't saying that TT was bad or anything, I was just trying to clarify Vince's point since my initial reading of it (and presumably the most obvious reading of it) was refuted by those two counterexamples, among others.

[retailguy]

Comparing Neal to James Lee? Are you kidding?



That is not what I was doing. What I said is that you could substitute everything he said about what WAS said about James Lee when drafted. Everyone has high hopes the day after the draft. Over 50% of the time those high hopes fizzle.

I have no idea if he's going to be good or not, or if he's a reach or not.

I'm concerned that so many folks think he's a "bad fit" for the 3-4. (We had a Defensive End that wasn't so great of a fit for the 3-4 too, after being told that it "would not be a problem", so the concerns have some merit, as those same meaningless talking heads were saying that too)

I have watched almost universal criticizm of the pick as a "reach". That being said, I watched almost universal criticism of the Nick Collins pick also, and that one worked out ok. That's why I want to see what Neal does with his opportunity. I hope he gets on the field for meaningful snaps this year after being teased for multiple seasons with Justin Harrell and Mike Montgomery.

Neal has character going for him, so that's good. If he translates to the 3-4 we might have a winner, if not, then what do we have? Maybe we can "train him up" for Jacksonville.

Cleft - I've watched the tape. I watched tape on Ryan Leaf too when he came out. That looked surprisingly good too.

TPB - Your post was so ridiculous I'm not even responding, except to say you need to read more threads. I've said some very complimentary things both regarding the team and my good buddy Ted Thompson concerning this draft.

I really like the burnett pick, but I like Ted Thompsons candor related to it even better.

[vince]

TT is the only GM in the league who has every player he drafted [in the last 3 years] still on an NFL roster - now with the exception of Thompson. That includes his less-than-stellar 2007 draft. Brandt noted that a number of teams have as many as 7 draftees from the last three years out of the league.
Actually, Aaron Rouse and Deshawn Wynn are now out of work (althought there's a decent chance they could catch on somewhere yet), in addition to Thompson's injury-shortened career. I looked up the drafts because I thought Clark Harris, the 7th round pick in '07 from Rutgers who was cut in training camp by the Packers his rookie year, must be out of the league, but he's now with the Bengals as a long snapper/TE.

And Thompson has drafted 28 players in those three years too, which has to be right up there near the top just in quantity as well as quality throughout the drafts.

Going further back, an impressive 10 out of 12 from 2006 are still in the league. Cory Rodgers and Ingle Martin are out of the league from that year.

A more average 5 out of 11 from 2005 are in the league, but that year is highlighted with the two pro-bowlers at important positions (Rodgers and Collins) at the top of it. And there is an argument to be made that Murphy would still be playing if not for his career-ending neck injury.

I'm not sure there's another team in the league who comes close to that drafting productivity and efficiency. I'd say Ted Thompson has proven to be elite if not the best at projecting NFL talent.

[vince]

Here are all of TT's draft picks assessed based on what they've done so far. I'm giving weight to the round in which they were drafted (in parentheses) in my assessment. A high pick that doesn't pan out is a worse pick than a low-round pick that doesn't pan out and vice-versa.

Home Runs - 8
Aaron Rodgers (1)
Clay Matthews (1)
Nick Collins (2)
Greg Jennings (2)
Jermichael Finley (3)
Josh Sitton (4)
Johnny Jolly (6)
Brad Jones (7)

Solid Picks - 17
BJ Raji (1)
A.J. Hawk (1)
Daryn Colledge (2)
Brandon Jackson (2)
Jordy Nelson (2)
James Jones (3)
Jason Spitz (3)
TJ Lang (4)
Brady Poppinga (4)
Will Blackmon (4)
Quinn Johnson (5)
Mason Crosby (6)
Desmond Bishop (6)
Korey Hall (6)
Brandon Underwood (6)
Matt Flynn (7)
Brett Swain (7)

In the League - 15
Aaron Rouse (3)
Abdul Hodge (3)
Allen Barbre (4)
Jamon Meredith (5)
David Clowney (5)
Breno Giacomini (5)
Tony Moll (5)
Michael Hawkins (5)
Mike Montgomery (6)
Jarius Wynn (6)
Tyrone Culver (6)
DeShawn Wynn (7)
Clark Harris (7)
Dave Tollefson (7)
William Whitticker (7)

Injured - 2
Terrance Murphy (2)
Jeremy Thompson (4)

Out of the League - 6
Cory Rodgers (4)
Marviel Underwood (4)
Ingle Martin (5)
Junius Coston (5)
Craig Bragg (6)
Kurt Campbell (7)

Potential Busts - 3
Justin Harrell (1)
Brian Brohm (2)
Patrick Lee (2)

Busts - 0

TBD - 7
Bryan Bulaga (1)
Mike Neal (2)
Morgan Burnett (3)
Andrew Quarless (5)
Marshall Newhouse (5)
James Starks (6)
C.J. Wilson (7)

[MichiganPackerFan]

Really enjoyed your post, Vince. A couple points of discussion:

Home Runs - 8
Brad Jones (7) WAY to early. One season is not enough to label as a home run here

Solid Picks - 17
Daryn Colledge (2) Got some work to do
Brandon Jackson (2) serviceable at best
Quinn Johnson (5) We'll see more this season
Mason Crosby (6) Depends on which version we get
Desmond Bishop (6) Needs to bring pre-season game to the regular season
Brandon Underwood (6) Haven't seen enough
Brett Swain (7) Haven't seen enough

In the League - 15
Michael Hawkins (5) Just a training camp tease.
William Whitticker (7) Out of the league since 2006.


Potential Busts - 3
Patrick Lee (2) One season to prove he's got something. The injury was tough

[retailguy]

Really enjoyed your post, Vince. A couple points of discussion:

Home Runs - 8
Brad Jones (7) WAY to early. One season is not enough to label as a home run here



I wonder how many folks labled Whittacker as a "home run" after the first year? :huh:

[Scott Campbell]

Here are all of TT's draft picks assessed based on what they've done so far.


That looks a like a lot of work Vince. Thanks.

[Patler]

Really enjoyed your post, Vince. A couple points of discussion:

Home Runs - 8
Brad Jones (7) WAY to early. One season is not enough to label as a home run here



I wonder how many folks labled Whittacker as a "home run" after the first year? :huh:

I agree that Jones certainly is not a homerun yet. At best, a "to-be-determined".

As for Whitticker, I doubt anyone listed him as a homerun after his rookie year. He struggled mightily, and lost playing time toward the end of the season. He played because the cupboard was bare.

[vince]

I don't disagree that it's too early to call Jones a home run. My thinking is that the criteria for a homerun for a 7th round pick is different than a 1st rounder. If Jones can be a good starter in the league, and it appears that he can be, that's a homerun for a 7th rounder. A little early yet though.

Similarly, if a 7th round pick makes the team (Swain) and contributes anything, that's a "solid pick" at that spot in the draft IMO.

[Fritz]

So Donald Driver must be a grand slam!

[vince]

Thanks for the correction on Whitticker MPF. For some reason, I googled him and I had him with the Redskins, but whatever page I went to appeared to me to be current but it was out of date. I wondered why I had an extra guy in that category from my original count.

[vince]

So Donald Driver must be a grand slam!
I'd say so. Tom Brady (6th round) and Bart Starr (17th round), who were both the 199th pick in their respective drafts, were walk-off 7th game of the World Series grand slams in my book.

[The Leaper]

Mason Crosby is most certainly a solid pick...the guy LED THE LEAGUE in points his rookie year. Even last year's version is probably better than half of the kickers in the league.

[Pugger]

I'd put Pat Lee in the TBD list too.

[bobblehead]

Pat Lee is TBD, and Brohm is probably a full fledged bust....he couldn't stay on our roster and even if he catches on somewhere and does something, it was a bust of a 2nd round pick for the packers.

[Bretsky]

Pat Lee is TBD, and Brohm is probably a full fledged bust....he couldn't stay on our roster and even if he catches on somewhere and does something, it was a bust of a 2nd round pick for the packers.


hey Bobble

Nice to see you in here more......I think you were away for a bit

[Tarlam!]

Brohm is probably a full fledged bust....he couldn't stay on our roster and even if he catches on somewhere and does something, it was a bust of a 2nd round pick for the packers.

OK, I've got my conspiracy theory thinking cap on. Get this:

Green Bay was maybe the worst possible destination for Brohm. He knew he'd be forced to ride pine forever, so, he took his signing bonus and played like a frog finally getting demoted to the PS.

From there, he could choose to sign onto the active roster of a team that really needs a QB, or continue to wait until such a team came along. Guess what? Buffalo came a'knockin'.

Did Buffalo take a QB early in the draft? Most pundits had them in the running for Clausen. They Passed, twice. They passed on McCoy three times! Finally, with their first of two 7th round picks they select a QB.

Things that make ya go "Hmmmmm".