Aaron Rodgers hoisting the Vince Lombardi Trophy this year?

[RashanGary]

We've beefed up our OL and DL. We have depth at safety, ILB, DL, WR, TE, OL, RB, QB and FB. We're going to need a few key players to stay healthy (Woodson, Tramon, Matthews, Rodgers). . . .

But all in all we were one of the top 12 teams in the league last year, didn't lose any players of note, very few are declining, several look to be improved in their 2nd and 3rd years. . . I consider it to be good common sense that this team is ascending from an already high level.

The question is, what do we think their chances are?

[HarveyWallbangers]

Talent-wise, we are good enough. Whether you are a champion or not often boils down to chemistry and dumb luck though.

I look at the 96 team, and there were holes, but they had a lot of stars on the team too. Also, we caught lightning in the bottle with Desmond Howard. He had a magical year. Basically, the only one in his pro career. I think we are good enough on offense and defense. Special teams scare me though. Coverage is okay, but we'll need better play on punt returns, a better punter, and a better year from Crosby.

[Tony Oday]

:D

TT STOP WRECKING COLLEDGES CAREER!!!!!


Being serious though. This team has to beat the Vikings. Until that game we really dont know.

[Tarlam!]

This thread is about 8 months premature.

I'm looking forward to a team that does better than start at 4-4. I'm looking forward to a team that beats Rastaks Vikings. Twice. And the Bears. Twice. And the Lions. Twice. They'll have achieved a lot if they sweep the division.

They have a damned tough schedule, maybe the toughest in years. They play NFC East/AFC East. I don't think there's a tougher double out there. Maybe Buffalo is a gift - or a trap game.

I don't underestimate Detroit, either. The damned Bears hate the Packers and always turn up for that duel.

Sorry, this poll/thread is way premature AFAIC. I think the team will be good and have a lot of fight. I don't know if they finish 7-1 with this schedule. They won't have to if they start and finish 6-2.

[Lurker64]

No reason they couldn't, but no reason to expect that they will. They're one of the most talented young teams in the league, with fewer severe holes than a lot of clubs, but a lot of it comes down to luck and momentum two things about which we have no clue at this point.

[swede]

I'd say we are about a 1 in 8 shot of getting to the Super Bowl this year.


And I'd say we're trending up for another 4-5 years, or as long as the healthy AR era lasts. Aaron is the grizzled veteran now. The core is even younger than he is. We will be extremely happy fans if Bulaga, Neal, Burnett, and Starks turn out to be really good players.

If luck holds than it's even odds for us to get to another SB in the next five years.

[Scott Campbell]

I'd say we are about a 1 in 8 shot of getting to the Super Bowl this year.


And I'd say we're trending up for another 4-5 years, or as long as the healthy AR era lasts. Aaron is the grizzled veteran now. The core is even younger than he is. We will be extremely happy fans if Bulaga, Neal, Burnett, and Starks turn out to be really good players.

If luck holds than it's even odds for us to get to another SB in the next five years.


If they hit gold in the draft with more guys that contribute like Mathews, we'll be awesome. Every team has holes. But I don't think we have too many.

[RashanGary]

Obviously I don't know as much about other teams in the NFC, let alone NFL, but here's my thread of logic into why I believe the Packers are a front runner.


The Vikings and Saints were about equal last year in terms of overall quality of team as it relates to winning a championship.

The Packers were not as good as the Vikings last year, but were not all that far off. If the Vikings were a 9 out of 10, the Packers at the end of the season were a 7 out of 10 by my view.


Using the Vikings team as the level we need to achieve to be SB competitors, and using my view of how we compared to them, I think we need to make up a little ground, but nothing extreme.

I think the defense being in it's 2nd year, Matthews and Jones growing in their 2nd years, the addition of the new DL to strengthen and deepen our DL rotation is enough reason to think our defense will be stronger, especially against the pass.

I think Rodgers going into his third year starting, having learned some valuable lessons, Tauscher being 2 years removed from his knee injury and starting the first game, Finley growing in his 2nd year starting and the added depth on our OL is reason to believe our offense will be better and handle injuries better.

Our ST's sucked last year. Can't get much worse is reason for me to believe they almost have to get at least marginally better.

Again, using the logic of how we compared to last years SB competitors, that this years SB winner will be similar in quality to last years and the trend of where our team is heading along with the depth that will help us sustain it. . . .

I'm a healthy offseason and a couple positive signs away from calling this team a front runner. Obviously even the best teams are still relative long shots to win a title, but I love the look of this team. I've been optimistic in the past and felt pretty good, but I think this team is loaded with talent, anchored with stability and a front runner to win it all!!

[Pugger]

I think we have a shot like several other clubs. Every year one or two teams that everyone has penciled in the playoffs has a bad year and one team that stunk out the joint the year before surprises everyone. These factors alone make it difficult to say. We need everyone to either play like they did last year or better and we have to be lucky when it comes to injuries. Often times the healthiest team in December is the one that gels and goes deep in the playoffs.

[Deputy Nutz]

They have a slim shot, and it is not because of the Packers offense. Their defense is going to be the weak link. The Packers simply don't have an answer for teams with a strong passing attack.

I am sorry but I am not betting on rookies to improve the team from one year to the next. The weakness is in the pass rush and in the scheme that Capers runs. The Packers have to get pressure on the QB otherwise the zone will not work, a decent QB is going to shred it because the recievers will have time to get to the pockets in the zone coverage. I can't expect the secondary to play any better than last year, Harris is coming off his first major leg injury, and Woodson was out of his mind last year, and I expect him to come back down to reality, which is still really good. Collins will hopefully improve from last year being in the same defense that relies on it safeties. The Packers unfortunately only have one legit safety on there roster.

I am not as high on Mathews as everyone else. I think he is a good ball player with good instincts, but he doesn't blow me away with his skill on the football field, that can always improve, but when you already have ten sacks by just flying up field at the QB, why change what works. I also expect any OLB in his position on this defense to come close to double digit sack numbers. Well any player that is half way decent. Brad Jones will improve.

The defensive line will probably take a hit at some point when Jolly, who is the most athletic defensive linemen will be suspended for 4 games, unless he gets a fantastic attorney. I don't like the fact that Raji is going to play end, he is a nose tackle a penatrator from the middle. Jenkins has been a disappointment for the most part of his career, and should be replaced.

I predict a season very similar to last year. Maybe they will win a playoff game.

In the division it is really going to depend on whether or not Favre comes back. At this point it is pretty much a given that he is going to suit up again for the Vikings, unless age finally catches up to him I think the Vikings win the North going away. If that happens then the Packers are going to be on the road for the playoffs.

I predict a wild card playoff berth, and a record well over .500 with double digit wins for the Packers.

Packers are going to be more competitve this season in fact I think they win at lambeau against the Favre led Vikings, but they still won't win the division. I expect loses against teams you would expect the Packers to beat. I wouldn't be suprised if they lose to Detroit this year. That is as bold as I will go with my prediction.

North Divison
Vikings 12-4
Packers 11-5
Lions 7-9
Bears 7-9

[retailguy]

I'm looking forward to a team that does better than start at 4-4.

I think that this is the key to the 2010 packers season.

[RashanGary]

Nice post, Nutz.

12-4 for Vikes, 11-5 for Pack. . .

I agree it will be a dog fight and I think a split too, but I flip your results. Favre is declining. Rodgers is ascending. The Vikings have as many aging players they rely on as they do promising young players that look to improve. Because they're declining as fast as they're improving, with Favre they should be about equal.

The Packers finished one behind the Vikes last year. Had they split, the Packers take the division by a game. That's what I think happens this year.

[RashanGary]

I think the biggest reason people become shocked when something happens is that many people look at one data dot and assume future results to be exactly like the singular past dot.


In Nutz' case, the single data-dot he looked at was the Packers getting beat in the air badly by top passing teams. He assumes everything will stay the same.

The problem with that, the two edge rushers were 22 year old rookies. Smart money says they will be better. The back 7 were all in teh first year of a new scheme. Smart money says they'll be better. Raji is coming into his 2nd year. Smart money says he'll be better. They've added a high draft pick to the DL. Smart money say's he'll be better than who he replaced (montgomery).

We'll see how it goes. Are they a team that is plateued or a team that is getting better? Beauty in the eye of the beholder for now. The most angry, belligerent, insulting person will usually win that battle before the results are in. The proof will be in the pudding in a few months. We'll see how it goes.

[Kiwon]

The Packers were so close last year, especially as they had momentum going into the Playoffs.

I think it depends on injuries and the schedule.

It's a crazy game with too many variables to predict. Who could have predicted the way that the Arizona playoff game would have finished last April?

[Brandon494]

I'll wait til after training camp and preseason til we actually know the 53 man roster to make my prediction.

[wist43]

Talent wise, I don't think we're too far off. As mentioned in the poll... CB and LB - and to that I would add S.

Burnett may, or may not, solve the Safety problem; but, I think Harris about done; Williams is a career long nickel (a good nickel, but nonetheless still a nickel); and, Lee looks like a bust. Underwood has upside...

Think about that... if Harris doesn't bounce back or goes down again, your starting CB's are Woodson, Williams, Underwood at nickel, and Peprah in dime.

At OLB, I like Jones... but can he be a different maker??? With no threat coming off the other edge, teams will slide their protection toward Matthews, and our weak secondary will be further exposed.

Add to the personnel shortcomings, Dom Capers stated philosophy of "don't blitz a good QB", and you're essentially saying that every playoff game will necessarily have to be a shootout for the Packers to have any chance.

We have a chance... and I'm expecting we'll be in the playoffs, but I also don't expect them to go too far b/c of our defensive deficiencies.

[Bretsky]

We're one of the two best teams in the NFC; Green Bay and Minnesota. Saints will again be a threat as well.

Helped ourselves some via the draft but not as much as I was hoping for.

But we have as good as shot as anyone.

Looking at the draft and offseason, to me it appears the AFC is stepping forward, on paper.....looking like the more dominant conference once again.

I like our chances to get there in the NFC; I'd feel nowhere as confident if I were in the AFC

[Bretsky]

Talent wise, I don't think we're too far off. As mentioned in the poll... CB and LB - and to that I would add S.

Burnett may, or may not, solve the Safety problem; but, I think Harris about done; Williams is a career long nickel (a good nickel, but nonetheless still a nickel); and, Lee looks like a bust. Underwood has upside...

Think about that... if Harris doesn't bounce back or goes down again, your starting CB's are Woodson, Williams, Underwood at nickel, and Peprah in dime.

At OLB, I like Jones... but can he be a different maker??? With no threat coming off the other edge, teams will slide their protection toward Matthews, and our weak secondary will be further exposed.

Add to the personnel shortcomings, Dom Capers stated philosophy of "don't blitz a good QB", and you're essentially saying that every playoff game will necessarily have to be a shootout for the Packers to have any chance.

We have a chance... and I'm expecting we'll be in the playoffs, but I also don't expect them to go too far b/c of our defensive deficiencies.


This is too negative IMO. Assuming Harris is just about done and then taking the analysis from there ? Harris never relied upon his speed. Technique guy...incredibly hard working...sound fundamental. He's a guy who can come back and be very effective even if he loses a half stop. Tramon Williams is a well above average Nickel Back if that's what you want to call him. With the exception of the Jets, I'm not sure there would be any or many teams that would not be elated with having Williams as the nickel back.

We added a starting calibur safety in the draft; I have no idea what more you can ask of TT there.

We're missing an effective pass rusher to add to the puzzle. Ideally another CB but if you take the glass is half full mentality and Harris returns if we stay healthy we're alright there.

[Joemailman]

Every year it seems the Packers struggle with the OL coming out of training camp and get their act together the second half of the year. If the OL plays well from the start of the season, the Packers should win enough games to get the division, and a first round bye. I think that's the key. The other is to beat the Vikings at Lambeau. If the Packers had just done that last year, they would have won the division and first round bye. It would have been the Vikings who would have had to go on the road to Arizona, where they would not have won.

[RashanGary]

I'm not pretending like I can predict a championship for the Packers or anything like that. Obviously there are a lot of variables. However. . . Just going off how I've felt about past teams. . .

2007, I really liked the team, but didn't think they were SB competitors just yet
2008, I worried about losing C Williams and KGB, and the change at QB
2009, I was very optimistic, but OLB was a complete unknown and the new defense was a bit of a concern. Playing the Vikes twice early was a worry. The OL ended up being far worse than I thought it would be too. .


This year, I feel much better than any year in the last 3. I've thought we were a good team every year the last three years, but I didn't think they were real SB competitors in any of the years. Playoff competitive, yeah. . Maybe everything could go right, but I didn't think they were top tier challengers.

This year, I think they're favorites. I'm sort of with Bretsky. N.O., GB, Minn. I'd throw the Giants in there too with all of the DL help they got. We're a true top tier team now IMO. Not a team that has everything bounce right, a legit SB competitor with depth to handle injuries at most positions.

[packerbacker1234]

In the end it is going to come down to defense, as many others have said. Defense wins championships. We proved last season in the playoffs that we can put up points. We showed once the line solidfied we could run the ball late in the season with Grant as well.

Overall, our offense is going to put points on the board. The concern is the pass defense (we were pretty good against the run and have all significant contributers coming back).

Against elite QB's is something we need to worry about. The Drew Brees's (someone we WILL have to most likely beat in the playoffs), the Brett Favre's (say what you want, but barring some significant drop off due to another injury he is still an elite QB), possibly have to get by a McNabb (who may not be an all star, but is pretty good) or a Eli Manning type (guy who has shown he can win in the playoffs). Then when you get to the big game, you have to face Peyton Manning, a Tom Brady, a Carson Palmer, Joe Flacco possibly (he's coming along nicely). All capable QB's that could potentially shred our defense.

Now, for starters key guys have to stay on the field. Woodson, for starters, I think is a person we can't afford to lose. Same with collins and as much as I like burnett... we can't lose bigby either. Those 3 guys are the anchors that hold it all together back there. I also think, should Harris come back to at least as good as he was last season before getting hurt, that he is yet another key guy we can't lose in a SB run. I know his two injuries in his career have been fluky, but we just can't lose him if he is playing well. He alone could changed the game against teh cards early.

Then it comes to the front 7. Generating pressure. You can only blitz woodson and Matthews so much. After Matthews season last year, he will obviously be targeted a bit more in blocking schemes, meaning Brad Jones (who will get a chance to start all season) and our MLB crew will need to find a way to put pressure on. Barnett isn't much of a blitzer himself, but he is "pretty good" in coverage and is great at the cleanup tackles. He doesn occasionally make plays in the middle, and is a nice little QB type guy for the LB crew.

That means, though, the other 3 need to be big pressure guys. I like what I saw out of chillar last year more so then I saw with Hawk, and I think the packers are thinking the same thing (hence the fact chillar just got a nice little contract).

So we need to pressure the ELITE QB's better, and our secondary has to keep it together. Even with the added depth, we just can't handle an injury to really any of our LB and DB core, including harris. Williams is good, but we need a good CB to handle the slot guy or were gonna get torched.

Overall, I think we can be a SB contendor. First thing first is trying to win the division. That question almost entirely lies in the Favre decision, which based on how the vikings drafted it's clear they have a strong feeling he is returning. They really drafted in a way that indicates win now. So assuming that Favre comes back, it's going to be a rough road.

I think we will have a legit chance to take teh devision and we wont play ourselves out of it early like last year, but I still don't see our record being much better. An 11-5 record is pretty good regardless, even if the vikes go 12-4 or better again. The question really is what do we do come playoffs.

Right now, I don't know. This year, the packers really didn't get significantly better anywhere in terms of winning this season. The biggest "up" for them is the potential return of Harris, which is something they missed last year.

After that? It's the same team. We can't realistically expect Woodson to have yet another career defining MVP year, but we can expect him to be really good. It's just a matter of what have we done to get better now, and defensively... not much. A little depth here and there, but no real impact guys (again, unless Burnett just turns into a super freak)

So... It will depend on matchups. We see anyone other than the vikings and saints in round one and two, I'll give us a good chance to get to the NFC Championship game (afterall, our QB is pretty elite as well). After that? WHo knows. We are going to have be able to shut down Brees or Favre in a playoff game, most likely on the road.

Good luck packers.

[vince]

The Packers have as good a shot as anyone in the league if the right guys can stay relatively healthy. So they need a little luck, as they all do.

It will be interesting to see how Harris progresses over the summer. I'm no doctor so I have no real idea, but the talk seems to be that he's progressing well. It sounds like he has a realistic shot at participating in camp and being ready to play by week 1. He's on the downhill slide, but if he can come back and be in form, that will be a huge lift for the CB position. I actually think Lee can play based on the little that we've seen of him, but missing the whole year last year is a big loss in terms of experience, so he's still wet behind the ears.

[Tony Oday]

I see our front 7 will be much improved this year. I see Raji really coming into his own. Jolly is a stud!!! Jenkins and Picket will be solid again. Neal will launch an OT into the second row. I love Hawk, Barnett and Chillar in the middle. CMIII jones and Pop are good on the outside with Obi wan zor playing more snaps.

Our secondary will be solid but not great. Woodson cannot have the same year...I mean really if he does he needs a new contract! Harris will be a good to solid Nickleback behind T Will. Collins will be great this year...for whatever reason I think he will be a STUD!!!

We showed that we can score with the best of the NFC and this year we will have Finley for the full year. Offense will be amazing! I dont think anything we drafted will be that great...a 6-2 RB...isnt that a little tall?

[RashanGary]

Top reasons for optimism for the pass rush:

1. BJ Raji. Healthy, better in his technique, stronger
2. Jones. Had 4 sacks in part time duty last year. Stronger, better technique
3. 2nd year defense. Will be able to mix coverages and send more variety of blitzes
4. Neal. Will help by keeping Jenkins and Raji rested. Could bring some rush himself

[Lurker64]

I dont think anything we drafted will be that great...a 6-2 RB...isnt that a little tall?

According to Ted Thompson he has strict height requirements for running backs


I guess 6-8 would be a little much, and 5-3 is probably a little too short.

[Deputy Nutz]

I think the biggest reason people become shocked when something happens is that many people look at one data dot and assume future results to be exactly like the singular past dot.


In Nutz' case, the single data-dot he looked at was the Packers getting beat in the air badly by top passing teams. He assumes everything will stay the same.

The problem with that, the two edge rushers were 22 year old rookies. Smart money says they will be better. The back 7 were all in teh first year of a new scheme. Smart money says they'll be better. Raji is coming into his 2nd year. Smart money says he'll be better. They've added a high draft pick to the DL. Smart money say's he'll be better than who he replaced (montgomery).

We'll see how it goes. Are they a team that is plateued or a team that is getting better? Beauty in the eye of the beholder for now. The most angry, belligerent, insulting person will usually win that battle before the results are in. The proof will be in the pudding in a few months. We'll see how it goes.

I gave you my opinions and they inlcuded the defensive line, the OLB, and the secondary. How much they improve from 2009 is going to be seen.

I simply don't think the Packers have the talent and scheme to beat the Vikings on defense.

Favre might be on the decline, but his 2009 numbers don't hold to that theory. Favre will be entering his second season in Minnesota, and if the offensive line returns to the first half of 2009, the Vikings will be tough to beat. There secondary was a weak point for their team, and they actually upgraded it in the draft with their first pick. They got another offensive weapon in Toby Gerhart. Cornerback and running back are traditionally positions that can come in and contribute right away.

[Cleft Crusty]

THe Vikings completely dominated the Packers last year, especially in the trenches. If the Packers can't improve in pass protection and pass rush, Favre will dismantle them all over again. Right now any improvement is entirely theoretical.

[Tony Oday]

I dont think anything we drafted will be that great...a 6-2 RB...isnt that a little tall?

According to Ted Thompson he has strict height requirements for running backs


I guess 6-8 would be a little much, and 5-3 is probably a little too short.

lol thats awesome! Need a little sign that says "must be this tall to ride?"

[Joemailman]

In the 2 games against the Vikings last year, the Packers OL was in disarray. Neither Clifton or Tauscher started either of those games. The pass protection will be better. It improved greatly in the 2nd half of the season. If the Packers and Vikings had met in the latter part of the season, there is a very good chance the Packers would have won in a shootout.

For the defense to be better, they must get pressure on Favre. No sacks in either game, and not many hits. Capers went into those games with stopping Peterson his #1 priority. I don't think that will be the case this year. New Orleans provided the blueprint on how to beat Favre.

[Pugger]

Talent wise, I don't think we're too far off. As mentioned in the poll... CB and LB - and to that I would add S.

Burnett may, or may not, solve the Safety problem; but, I think Harris about done; Williams is a career long nickel (a good nickel, but nonetheless still a nickel); and, Lee looks like a bust. Underwood has upside...

Think about that... if Harris doesn't bounce back or goes down again, your starting CB's are Woodson, Williams, Underwood at nickel, and Peprah in dime.

At OLB, I like Jones... but can he be a different maker??? With no threat coming off the other edge, teams will slide their protection toward Matthews, and our weak secondary will be further exposed.

Add to the personnel shortcomings, Dom Capers stated philosophy of "don't blitz a good QB", and you're essentially saying that every playoff game will necessarily have to be a shootout for the Packers to have any chance.

We have a chance... and I'm expecting we'll be in the playoffs, but I also don't expect them to go too far b/c of our defensive deficiencies.

What makes you believe Lee is a bust? :?:

[Tarlam!]

What makes you believe Lee is a bust? :?:

Oh, that's just Wisty being his glass half empty self. He called Nick Barnett a bust until M3's 2nd year of coaching.

[RashanGary]

In the 2 games against the Vikings last year, the Packers OL was in disarray. Neither Clifton or Tauscher started either of those games. The pass protection will be better. It improved greatly in the 2nd half of the season. If the Packers and Vikings had met in the latter part of the season, there is a very good chance the Packers would have won in a shootout.

For the defense to be better, they must get pressure on Favre. No sacks in either game, and not many hits. Capers went into those games with stopping Peterson his #1 priority. I don't think that will be the case this year. New Orleans provided the blueprint on how to beat Favre.


Good point. The Packers went in there, with stopping AP on their mind and they accomplished it. Both games, particularly the first, they were undiciplined in the secondary and somewhat predictable because I remember Capers saying he wasn't going to open up the book until they executed it well in practice. Reading between the lines, they weren't all getting it.

This year I see us being stronger on the OL, stronger on the DL, stronger in the secondary with guys knowing their jobs, stronger at OLB with the rookies taking big leaps and stronger at QB with Rodgers having learned some tough lessons early last year. I think Capers will have a plan to correct last years weaknesses and Capers is a proven good coach so I think he'll do it.

The Packers were not far off the Vikings last year, finishing only a game out of the division. I see us trending upward more-so than them. We have more guys at points in their careers that improvement is likely and less that decline is likely. As close as we were last year, I like our chances to overtake them this year.

[RashanGary]

Let's remember, two years ago we were 6-10. The Vikings were 10-6. Many of us felt last year that the Packers had made strides and it showed on the field. They changed their record by 5 games.


This year, I think we've improved yet again. I can understand how someone might say, "nah, they're about the same", but I disagree. I think this year the Packers will be markedly better than last year and it will be enough to close a small gap between us and our rivals to the NW.

[Tarlam!]

They improved 5 games against a fairly weak schedule. As I posted earlier, this season's schedule will tell us a lot about the state of the team.

I'd be happy if we sweep the division, which got much tougher after the off season and the draft.

[MichiganPackerFan]

They have a slim shot, and it is not because of the Packers offense. Their defense is going to be the weak link. The Packers simply don't have an answer for teams with a strong passing attack.

I agree with this, but more specifically I think they had no answer to the mid passing game to the middle of the field. They were exposed in AZ but the weakness was there all season. I don't know X's & O's well, but that sounds like the scheme to me.

In order for GB to be successful next season, here's what has to happen:
1) Health
2) Offensive line protecting AR
3) QB pressure. No more allowing 5+ seconds to allow the ball to come out.
4) Me getting a new HDTV. Therefore, if you want the packers to succeed, I think we all need to chip in to get me one.

Remember, there will be NO success unless ALL 4 items occur.

[Pugger]

I dont think anything we drafted will be that great...a 6-2 RB...isnt that a little tall?

According to Ted Thompson he has strict height requirements for running backs


I guess 6-8 would be a little much, and 5-3 is probably a little too short.

:lol: :lol:

[RashanGary]

They improved 5 games against a fairly weak schedule. As I posted earlier, this season's schedule will tell us a lot about the state of the team.

I'd be happy if we sweep the division, which got much tougher after the off season and the draft.

The Vikings have the same schedule. That doesn't really apply to this conversation.

[ThunderDan]

They improved 5 games against a fairly weak schedule. As I posted earlier, this season's schedule will tell us a lot about the state of the team.

I'd be happy if we sweep the division, which got much tougher after the off season and the draft.

That argument is getting old.

We went 4-4 against the "easy" half of our schedule. Everyone was saying if the Pack didn't start fast last year we were dead. And then we went 7-1 against the "hard" half of our schedule. Beating Balt, Dallas, SF, @Chi and one unbelievable pass from Rottenberger from going 8-0. Tons of threads on here on how the Packers would be lucky to have a winning record yet alone finishing 10-6. That thread on its own was crazy and a pile of crow was eaten there.

We have 2 different games for our schedule as any other team in the NFC North every year.

[wist43]

What makes you believe Lee is a bust? :?:

Oh, that's just Wisty being his glass half empty self. He called Nick Barnett a bust until M3's 2nd year of coaching.

Still hate Barnett Tar, lol...

Although he's matured into a vet... can't begrudge any more praise than that :D

[Tarlam!]

The Vikings have the same schedule. That doesn't really apply to this conversation.

Say what? Of course it applies to this conversation. You maintain we improved from a 6-10 to an 11-5 team. We did, but against a weak schedule.

The whole premise of this thread/poll is to predict the season's result. Taking the schedule into account as a parameter isn't applicable?

[wist43]

They have a slim shot, and it is not because of the Packers offense. Their defense is going to be the weak link. The Packers simply don't have an answer for teams with a strong passing attack.

I agree with this, but more specifically I think they had no answer to the mid passing game to the middle of the field. They were exposed in AZ but the weakness was there all season. I don't know X's & O's well, but that sounds like the scheme to me.

In order for GB to be successful next season, here's what has to happen:
1) Health
2) Offensive line protecting AR
3) QB pressure. No more allowing 5+ seconds to allow the ball to come out.
4) Me getting a new HDTV. Therefore, if you want the packers to succeed, I think we all need to chip in to get me one.

Remember, there will be NO success unless ALL 4 items occur.

Yes, they were exposed in Arizona, and I've been fairly vocal about that; but, I still place most of the blame for that debacle on Capers.

If Capers comes out in conservative mode, i.e., don't blitz good QB's, then any defense would be in trouble. Capers game plan against Arizona in the playoff game was mind numbingly ill conceived.

That said, the player deficiencies were fairly obvious too... we need more consistancy and production out of the secondary, and we need more play makers at LB. Increased pass rush can only help that of course, but there can be no denying that the players we're planning on trotting out there this year are the same players who got smoked with ease more than once last year. Forget about their number two yardage ranking... 7 games against 7 of the worst offenses in the league will pad your stats a bit.

[Tarlam!]

That argument is getting old......etc

We have 2 different games for our schedule as any other team in the NFC North every year.

Just because it's an old argument doesn't mean it isn't a truth.

I don't know if you actually read what I write, Dan, or if I've antagonized you so you flat out pick on my posts.

In this thread my message has been pretty consistant: It's too early for me to tell whether or not we'll win the SB, I hope we sweep the division and it will be a tougher schedule than the last few years.

I really don't know where the animosity in my opinions is justified.

[ThunderDan]

That argument is getting old......etc

We have 2 different games for our schedule as any other team in the NFC North every year.

Just because it's an old argument doesn't mean it isn't a truth.

I don't know if you actually read what I write, Dan, or if I've antagonized you so you flat out pick on my posts.

In this thread my message has been pretty consistant: It's too early for me to tell whether or not we'll win the SB, I hope we sweep the division and it will be a tougher schedule than the last few years.

I really don't know where the animosity in my opinions is justified.

I read everything you write.

The easy schedule/tough schedule is a bunch of BS. Who would have guessed that Cincinnatti or the Jetts would have been good in 2009? Or that the Titans would go 8-8 or the Giants would go 8-8?

The Packers lost 5 games during the regular season in 2009.
2 to Minnesota 12-4, who lost in the NFC Championship game to the SuperBowl Champs.
1 to Cincinnati 10-6, who made the playoffs
1 to Pittsburgh 9-7, who beat Minn also
1 to TB, how the hell do we lose that game?

We lost in the first round of the playoffs because of a defensive collapse that had been exposed a couple of times earlier in the season.

I am not denying that you need to wait and see how the Packers look to make a guess. I haven't answered the poll either and need to see training camp work before I would answer this question. I just can't stand the soft/hard schedule BS.

[Tarlam!]

The easy schedule/tough schedule is a bunch of BS. Who would have guessed that Cincinnatti or the Jetts would have been good in 2009? Or that the Titans would go 8-8 or the Giants would go 8-8?

We lost in the first round of the playoffs because of a defensive collapse that had been exposed a couple of times earlier in the season.

The Jets limped into the playoffs and Cinci got squashed because they were overconfident, just as The Pack lost in Tampa. The Cards demonstrated pretty clearly that at best, The Pack should have been 10-6. Dallas showed in the playoffs that they were shite playing away, so their loss at Lambeau was consistant etc.

We can do this all day.

In the absence of beating the Vikings twice this year and repeating the sweep of the Lions and Bears, I see this year's schedule as very difficult compared to last year's.

How the team does this year will tell me, at least, how good this team really is.

[ThunderDan]

The easy schedule/tough schedule is a bunch of BS. Who would have guessed that Cincinnatti or the Jetts would have been good in 2009? Or that the Titans would go 8-8 or the Giants would go 8-8?

We lost in the first round of the playoffs because of a defensive collapse that had been exposed a couple of times earlier in the season.

The Jets limped into the playoffs and Cinci got squashed because they were overconfident, just as The Pack lost in Tampa. The Cards demonstrated pretty clearly that at best, The Pack should have been 10-6. Dallas showed in the playoffs that they were shite playing away, so their loss at Lambeau was consistant etc.

We can do this all day.

In the absence of beating the Vikings twice this year and repeating the sweep of the Lions and Bears, I see this year's schedule as very difficult compared to last year's.

How the team does this year will tell me, at least, how good this team really is.

The Jets made to the AFC Championship game with a rookie QB after a HOF QB named Favre left. I would have been surprised if they won 7 games last year. Instead that got 2 quarters away from the Super Bowl.

And Dallas, fuck, they are the only team that beat NO at home all year when NO played their starters the whole game and you say they were shit on the road? Dallas was 5-3 on the road. Edit: NO lost to Tampa Bay at home also on that missed FG the next week during a complete let down week for the team. Wait, NO the Super Bowl Champs lost to TB, I guess GB Loss to TB doesn't look as bad. :oops:

I'm done with this.

[RashanGary]

Yes, they were exposed in Arizona, and I've been fairly vocal about that; but, I still place most of the blame for that debacle on Capers.

If Capers comes out in conservative mode, i.e., don't blitz good QB's, then any defense would be in trouble. Capers game plan against Arizona in the playoff game was mind numbingly ill conceived.

That said, the player deficiencies were fairly obvious too... we need more consistancy and production out of the secondary, and we need more play makers at LB. Increased pass rush can only help that of course, but there can be no denying that the players we're planning on trotting out there this year are the same players who got smoked with ease more than once last year. Forget about their number two yardage ranking... 7 games against 7 of the worst offenses in the league will pad your stats a bit.

The only problem with this post is that it completely ignores the age and development level of several of our core pass rushers.

Matthews 22 year old rookie, only getting better.
Jones 22 year old rookie, only getting better.
Raji 22 year old injured rookie, only getting better.

Same guys, sure. Anyone who thinks players don't usually get a lot better after their rookie years hasn't watched much football, hasn't paid attention or has closed their mind. Several key pieces to the Packers pass rush are at ages where common sense tells you they are trending up.

We'll see how it pans out.

[Lurker64]

It probably was worth mentioning that last year was the first year install of the defense (was a lot different than the previous defense). With a year for the players to acclimate to the scheme, and more importantly a year for Dom and his coaches to figure out who can (and can't) do what.

I'm sure that Dom's going to have some wrinkles. Wouldn't be surprised to see things like "Burnett, Bigby, and Collins on the field at the same time" or "Barnett or Chillar lined up at OLB" this year.

Remember, that Capers is one of the most brilliant defensive minds of our era. I don't really think he's going to try to stand pat on his performance last year.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Only 6 teams gave up fewer points than Green Bay. Only 1 team gave up fewer yards. No teams gave up fewer rushing yards. No teams had more interceptions. Only 1 team had more pass deflections. Only 1 team gave up a lower completion percentage. Only 1 team gave up fewer yards/rush. 10 teams had more sacks, but Green Bay increased their sacks in the second half of the season (acclimated to the scheme?).

If Green Bay's defense is so bad because of the four games (two against a QB that knows them very well early in the year when they were adjusting to the new scheme and two against the other two teams that mostly play the same defensive scheme as we do), then there are a lot of teams that don't have much of a chance.

Of the teams that gave up fewer points:

Cincinnati had games where they gave up 28 to Houston, 30 to Minnesota, 27 to San Diego.

San Fran had games where they gave up 27 to Minnesota, 45 to Atlanta, 34 to Tennessee, 30 to Green Bay, and 27 to Philadelphia.

New England had games where they gave up 33 to Baltimore, 35 to Indianapolis, 34 to Houston, and 38 to New Orleans.

Dallas had games where they gave up 34 to Minnesota, 33 to the Giants, 31 to the Giants.

Even the Jets (who led the league in scoring defense) gave up 30 to Indianapolis, 31 to Miami, and 31 to New England.

My point; the defense was pretty good last year. Yes, it needs to improve, but it's not like it can't happen.

[wist43]

Yes, they were exposed in Arizona, and I've been fairly vocal about that; but, I still place most of the blame for that debacle on Capers.

If Capers comes out in conservative mode, i.e., don't blitz good QB's, then any defense would be in trouble. Capers game plan against Arizona in the playoff game was mind numbingly ill conceived.

That said, the player deficiencies were fairly obvious too... we need more consistancy and production out of the secondary, and we need more play makers at LB. Increased pass rush can only help that of course, but there can be no denying that the players we're planning on trotting out there this year are the same players who got smoked with ease more than once last year. Forget about their number two yardage ranking... 7 games against 7 of the worst offenses in the league will pad your stats a bit.

The only problem with this post is that it completely ignores the age and development level of several of our core pass rushers.

Matthews 22 year old rookie, only getting better.
Jones 22 year old rookie, only getting better.
Raji 22 year old injured rookie, only getting better.

Same guys, sure. Anyone who thinks players don't usually get a lot better after their rookie years hasn't watched much football, hasn't paid attention or has closed their mind. Several key pieces to the Packers pass rush are at ages where common sense tells you they are trending up.

We'll see how it pans out.

I like all those players... I fully expect Raji to make an impact this year, and I'm expecting season long production from Matthews, and I expect him to be a different maker.

I like Jones, but have a "nice player" at OLB in a 3-4??? You can cover up weaknesses with game plans, but as we've seen, Dom is more likely to go soft than he is to try to shore up, or provide help for the obvious weaknesses he has in peronnel.

I'm hopeful of Jones though... Barnett and Hawk are JAG's.

Where my biggest concern lies on defense is at corner... I'm hoping Burnett is the answer at S, and I like the pick.

[falco]

Williams is a career long nickel

-1

[Tony Oday]

Williams is a career long nickel

you watch different football than I do I guess