BRETT FAVRE AND HIS FUTURE

[Bretsky]

FIRST OFF, I WILL ADMIT, I AM A FAVRE APOLOGIST. My downstairs is filled with well over 1G of Brett Favre memorabilla. When he sucked in early years I got into vehement arguments with my moron inlaws who thought he should be benched and had no potential. I had the vision to see the talent.

That being said, Brett Favre still has that physical talent. He's not quite as fast, but the arm is still there and he can still lead a team to the Super Bowl. He just can't carry a team anymore.

The one thing I truly believe is that Brett Favre still has the desire to play the game. Yes, he was beaten down mentally after last year.........but he still has the desire and has been hinting/pleading to TT to give him an excuse to come back. The Turtle is clearly going another route and is not going to spend money to get proven talent in Green Bay at a time when it's frankly a struggle to get proven talent to the Packers without giving fair market value or slightly more.

This is all incredibly frustrating to think. Going into Free Agency, I thought at bare minimum Ted Thompson would sign one legitimate starting LB to a long term deal...such as Will Witherspoon or David Thornton, I figured TT would either resign Flanagan or sign a starting Center. I figured TT would sign a legitimate starting OG and then let the other yahoos fight it out and hopefully one would of them would become solid. I figured TT would add a Safety, which he did, and also a CB.

The Turtle has come far short of my expectations, and it's clear he's come short of what Brett Favre was hoping to see based on his references.

Brett Favre wants to play IMO, but he wants to play for a team with a chance to win it all. If he does that he will continue to enjoy the game.

SLAP me up if you want, but it's in Brett Favre's best interests to go and play for another football team.

I want to see Favre go out a winner, and to do so he now needs to be surrounded with talent. If he has one to two years left, I have lost confidence that Ted Thompson will feel the urgency to do this.

There are great QB's who have ended their careers elsewhere. Joe Montana comes to mind. :sad: I want Brett Favre to go out a winner; if not with Green Bay than with another team.

[Bretsky]

Favre wants a Super Bowl contender
QB makes it clear that he doesn't want to go 4-12 again but isn't sure Packers have improved much
By TOM SILVERSTEIN
tsilverstein@journalsentinel.com

Posted: April 8, 2006
Tunica, Miss. - Standing alongside a caravan of golf carts parked around the 10th hole at the Cottonwoods Golf Course Saturday, Green Bay Packers quarterback Brett Favre was alone with his thoughts and his pitching wedge.

While the rest of the group - all donors to Favre’s charity foundation who had presumably paid a pretty price to accompany him in a round of golf - teed off into the brisk, chilly wind, Favre paused for a moment in between short warm-up chips to address an approaching reporter.

"I don’t know what people came expecting to hear," Favre said.

Two hours earlier, Favre held a news conference in front of a dozen or so reporters, many from the state of Wisconsin, who thought he might make an announcement about his future.

Contrary to a published report that he was going to make his plans known, Favre disappointed the public - not to mention the television stations who carried the news conference live - informing them that there was "no change" in his uncertain playing status. Favre holds the news conference every year in association with his Fourward Foundation charity golf tournament and jokingly questioned why there were so many reporters around.

"I don't know why you guys wasted a trip down here," he told the media at the 8:30 a.m. news conference.

Later, as he waited for his turn to tee off at the 10th hole, he started asking the questions that are obviously affecting his decision.

"So what’s going on up there?" Favre asked. "What are they doing? Have they signed anybody?"

Though it will go down as one of the great false alarms in retirement history, Favre’s insecurity about being the starting quarterback for a losing football team became clearer than ever after the events of this weekend. Often one to reason out loud, Favre continued to express concern about the Packers’ ability to bounce back from their first losing season since he became their starting quarterback and his own ability to handle another one.

The last time Favre had endured a losing season was 1989, his junior year at the University of Southern Mississippi, and apparently at age 36 he isn’t prepared to handle another one. So as he has of late, Favre continued to question whether the Packers have done enough to pull themselves off the mat.

"I guess ultimately it comes down to just whether or not you want to play and run the risk of being 4-12," Favre said at the news conference. "There’s always that risk, just as there is a chance of us being 12-4. I would be more surprised if we were 12-4. Anything could happen.

"I never thought we would ever go 4-12 in my tenure here in Green Bay and we did. Nothing surprises me anymore. That’s something I have to live with, if I’m willing to go through that again. (Those are) the options I’m weighing."

During the 15-minute news conference Favre recalled how former general manager Ron Wolf brought the Packers instant credibility with the free agent signing of defensive end Reggie White. Success was not instant - it wound up taking two years before the Packers improved their record with White on board - but it’s clear Favre would have liked to see current general manager Ted Thompson take that kind of risk this off-season.

Thompson has stuck to his guns in building the team in a more traditional way - through the college draft - and hasn’t brought in anyone of significance on offense through free agency and trades. Given that the free agent market has pretty much gone dry, there isn’t much Favre can hope for in regard to outside help.

Reminded of that fact, Favre said, "It may be over then, huh? I’m sort of thinking that right now. I don’t know."

Favre would not put a timetable on when he would make a decision on his future other than saying he might make it in the coming week. But three times the club has had to delay a roster bonus deadline in order to give him more time to think, and there are no guarantees he’ll announce something before the new April 15 deadline.

Of the current and former Packers players who attended Favre’s charity outing, former backup Doug Pederson has been the quarterback’s most recent confidant, and his opinion after spending much of Friday with him is that Favre is headed for retirement. Pederson said Favre hasn’t told him directly that he was going to quit, but he said their discussions have led him to believe he’s leaning that way.

"I think he’s weighing the fact with free agency who are the Packers going to bring in to help him, to get them back to the playoffs," Pederson said. "I don’t see that happening right now. Everyone out there is agreeing. They don’t see that, they don’t see that movement in the free agent market to help.

"I don’t think he’s going to come back and go 4-12 again. Right now, I’d say he’s not. I would lean toward him not (playing) just in the fact that the team personally has not made any effort to get any better. I could be wrong."

Former center Frank Winters, who was one of Favre’s closest friends throughout their time together in Green Bay, said he understood the quarterback’s hesitation about playing on a losing team. But he also said his belief is that you should play as long as you’re physically and mentally capable and that Favre still appeared to have good years ahead of him.

Favre acknowledged that physically he can still play. He said his weight is down to 219 pounds and it was evident he had not let himself go after the season. He said mentally he was feeling more excitement about playing football again and thinking less about the drudgery of last season.

"It's in my blood," he said about football. "I love to play the game."

But he made it clear that he doesn’t want to come back to a hopeless situation.

"Maybe we don’t get back to the Super Bowl, but I’d like to think we can compete for it," Favre said. "I want to feel like we can compete for the Super Bowl and not just say that to say that because people want to hear that. I don’t want the coaches to say that, I don’t want to say that unless we really can get to the Super Bowl or compete for it. That’s really my stance right now."

Thompson was not available for comment Saturday, but last week he said that he was not through building the team for next season and that people needed to be patient. His last chance at landing a name free agent might be four-time Pro Bowl cornerback Charles Woodson, who recently visited the team.

But if he wasn’t already expecting a huge payday, Woodson probably is now after Favre said this about his desire to land another Reggie White: "I think that’s what we have to do, make a statement again. You have to stay up with the NFL and teams are making statements. Sometimes you hit on them and sometimes you don’t. I think we have to do that."

Asked what he would tell Green Bay Packers fans, Favre said, "I know they get anxious for the season to start. ... I know they can't wait for a decision, but there's time. There is life aside from my decision and the off-season."

Though he wasn’t able to give a definitive answer about his future, Favre did raise a lot of money for his Fourward Foundation, which has turned some of its focus toward providing relief to Hurricane Katrina victims. Favre grew up in Kiln, Miss., which was one of the areas that suffered severe damage, and was forced to move his charity golf tournament to this remote location because much of the Gulf Coast had not recovered.

A silent auction held Friday night raised $180,000, foundation organizers said, and proceeds from the golf outing and a concert Saturday night featuring Tim McGraw were expected to go to the foundation also.

[HarveyWallbangers]

When he sucked in early years I got into vehement arguments with my moron inlaws who thought he should be benched and had no potential.

Funny! I was that guy in my family also. Actually, he only really sucked in that one year ('93) and then the first part of '94, but a lot of people wanted him bench. I couldn't believe other people didn't see the potential I saw.

I agree with much of what you wrote.

[Bretsky]

When he sucked in early years I got into vehement arguments with my moron inlaws who thought he should be benched and had no potential.

Funny! I was that guy in my family also. Actually, he only really sucked in that one year ('93) and then the first part of '94, but a lot of people wanted him bench. I couldn't believe other people didn't see the potential I saw.

I agree with much of what you wrote.


It saddens me to have the view that Favre should go play for another organization

[GrnBay007]

I can't believe how any Packer fan can question why he has a bad taste in his mouth from last year or why he QUESTIONS the intentions from the OFFICE. Brett was hung out to dry last season. Unfortunately he was probably caught up in the middle of making sure they had cause to dump Sherman. Injury after injury and what did Thompson do? Nada!! He had his agenda and Brett suffered through it. Now what?

[Bretsky]

I can't believe how any Packer fan can question why he has a bad taste in his mouth from last year or why he QUESTIONS the intentions from the OFFICE. Brett was hung out to dry last season. Unfortunately he was probably caught up in the middle of making sure they had cause to dump Sherman. Injury after injury and what did Thompson do? Nada!! He had his agenda and Brett suffered through it. Now what?

I'd agree, and based on this offseason his goal to win immediately is being hung out to dry again.

[Anti-Polar Bear]

Good post Bretsky. Before reading this, i posted a short but similar post on the other thread. One thing i disagree, though, is Favre would likely retire than play for another team. Nonetheless, i like everyone, wants Favre to go out on a high note, preferable like Eway.

[RashanGary]

Thompson’s perspective:

T.T. badly wants Favre to return. First off, Favre is a legend in GB and he accidentally threw T.T. under the bus causing fans everywhere to tote the new, misunderstood Favre Company Line. Now, Thompson seems to be sure enough of himself not to let this effect his decision making but I'll bet he's wishing this pressure would be relieved and he could just go back to being the top scout on two of the most Successful teams over the last decade.

Favre is also a very good player and would make the team better without a question. Thompson knows this roster has holes and they will be that much more glaring without the HOF QB. Thompson needs one more year to get things straightened out without forcing the issue and signing bad contracts so he can have the best of both worlds. Unfortunately it would be bridged on Brett's HOF back. Rodgers could then walk in to a young, rebuilt team with experience in the offense. Sure it comes at the expense of Brett Favre but that decision was made over the last few years when Wolf bombed his finial draft after Thompson departed to Seattle. Sherman then proceeded to completely blotch the next 3 drafts in Greenbay without Wolf's top scout. Thompson is trying to fix that colossal error without forcing the issue but it's going to take at least one more year of pain. If he forces it; it will be too little too late and the rebuilding will be even harder. Unfortunately the fans don’t know it yet.

Brett's perspective

Brett see's the roster for what it is. He's smart enough to know that Sherman errored in his draft and then sold the farm to compete for those last 3 years. Favre knows no players have replaced the all pros that were drafted half a decade ago. He also realizes that Thompson has a strategy that isn’t going to involve giving Brett a finial glorious run. Thompson would have loved to walk into a deep team with good contracts everywhere and just have to put on the finishing touches. Fact is; he walked into a team with expiring contracts on 3 of its all pro offensive lineman with nobody in the wings to replace them and no money to keep them. Follow that up with the fact that the best players on defense where all grossly overpaid in the finial years of their bad contracts. Favre realizes the team is stripped. He probably talks with Wolf and other old knowledgeable friends who inform him that the roster is a complete mess that will not be fixed overnight without spending big money on outside FA. Favre is pleading for Thompson to give him one more good year.

Favre really is in a tough spot. He wants to play but he doesn't want to play with a roster that without him is the worst in the league. Some want to blame Thompson and I can see the logic in that although I completely disagree at this point. Favre has no ill-will directed at Thompson but he does know what he'd be getting into. It's not as bad as last year but without Brett it will be. Why should Brett cover the GB Packers for one more year so they can hand the new, young, up and coming roster down to Thompson’s 1st draft pick? I sure wouldn't want to be the guy who does Ted’s dirty work and Brett is thinking *I'd rather not play than go out like this*. Honestly, he deserves better but the Packers can't offer it at this point. His only option is to go out two years early.

My perspective

I want to see what’s best for the Packers because I'm a Packer fan first. Believe it or not fella's I'm younger than many who witnessed the 70's but I was the biggest fan of the kids on my block and I faintly remember guys like Ed West, Anthony Dilwig, Randy Wright, Brent Fullwood etc.. I loved my Packers then and I'll love them now with Ferguson, Gado and Rodgers. I know the team isn't as good as it was but I realize that it didn't happen over night and can't be fixed over night. I believe in what Ted is doing and I know some patients are going to be required. I have my doubts; but I know it's the only way to truly build a contender. If I thought the Packers could add one or two more pieces like Sherman tried to do with Nickerson and Johnson; I would be all in favor of taking one more stab at it to see Favre’s career end in a glorious superbowl run. The realist in me knows those chances where shot when Wolf blew the 10th overall pick and the entire remaining portion of that draft while Sherman proceeded to completely bomb the following 3 drafts.

Would I enjoy one more season of the greatest competitor I'll probably ever witness? Hell yes. A fellow fan showed me an interesting past stat; 6 games into last season Brett's QB rating was almost at 100. It was too much for him to play well yet lose week in and week out. He gave up. As tough as I and many others are on his off-season decisions I think most of us "bashers" respect and love the hell out of Brett Favre. I know Favre did not give his best at the end and that was tough to watch. In hindsight though it is barely a blemish on his HOF career.

I'm hoping for a true NFL difference maker in this draft and if things go like they project to without Favre we should have another one next year. We have to hope to hit gold a time or two and have solid drafts but if Thompson is as good as his track record suggests we're in for a great 5-10 years of football. I've always embraced change in my life so it comes as no surprise to me that this is not a hard adjustment. I've also seen so many resist change that I understand why many are not ready to let go. IMHO it is time to let go because Brett knows it's over. He burned some bridges with his comments and at this point it will be a lot harder to come back than it would be to lay it down. He's going through the process of accepting and realizing that the Packers roster is depleted. Unlike most athletes who spew company lines Brett is honest enough and naive enough to reveal his entire thought process to the media to be cut, skewed and spit back at him as fire and insults. As much as I judge him for not knowing better, I appreciate him for being the rare star who never got broken. That is half of Favre's legacy.

We will miss you Brett Favre.

[Patler]

....

[Bretsky]

"Would I enjoy one more season of the greatest competitor I'll probably ever witness? Hell yes. A fellow fan showed me an interesting past stat; 6 games into last season Brett's QB rating was almost at 100. It was too much for him to play well yet lose week in and week out. He gave up. As tough as I and many others are on his off-season decisions I think most of us "bashers" respect and love the hell out of Brett Favre. I know Favre did not give his best at the end and that was tough to watch. In hindsight though it is barely a blemish on his HOF career. "


NICK,

First off all, that was a great and pretty even keeled post. Where we disagree on is I feel TT should have brought several youthful and talented starters into the mix like Pickett to give this team a remote chance at the playoffs. But he did not. We can just agree to disagree on that one.

I recall how solid Favre was at the beginning of last year. And the injury of Walker hurt a lot but he kept rolling til game six. But mid year we became truly traumatized with injuries on the offensive side of the ball, and teams figured out how to stop GB's half dimensional offense. That, and the lost confidence by Favre, resulted in a terrible second half of the season IMO.

[Patler]

[.....

[Bretsky]

Shamrock,

I don't take the analysis quite as far as you do and say Favre threw in the towel, but for the first time in his career he realized he was playing in a lost season. And his confidence was tarnished. He doesn't want that to happen again. But he still want to play. Without a healthy Walker, Green Bay has about the worst talent in the NFL, and Favre sees minimal upgrades with a lot of unspent money on the book. We can sit back here as know it all fans and analyze that, but we have no idea how a player who has accomplishes so much would take that. He's best served on a team with more talent at this point.

[Bretsky]

I recall how solid Favre was at the beginning of last year. And the injury of Walker hurt a lot but he kept rolling til game six. But mid year we became truly traumatized with injuries on the offensive side of the ball, and teams figured out how to stop GB's half dimensional offense. That, and the lost confidence by Favre, resulted in a terrible second half of the season IMO.

And that in a nutshell is why it is over. Favre has weatherd injuries to his #1 receiver time and again over his career. He has played with worse pass protection than he had last year. Yet he never lost confidence until last year. He now wonders, "if he wants the ball." The confidence is gone. As a result, the Favre we knew all these years is gone, and is not likely to return.

We had the ability to restack the talent on this team; right or wrong TT has chosen not to.

Would you agree a change of scenery might be best for Favre ?

[Patler]

.....

[Harlan Huckleby]

I really don't see how Favre can come back.

Does anbody think this team can compete for the NFC North title?
With or without Favre.

The team is so clearly rebuilding.

[Bretsky]

I really don't see how Favre can come back.

Does anbody think this team can compete for the NFC North title?
With or without Favre.

The team is so clearly rebuilding.

Yes it is; Ted Thompson crucified my company called the Shore Patrol and told me he's going to take his sweet f@ckin time to build the ship; he's still out decidiing what nails he wants to use.

[Fritz]

Excellent, thoughtful posts, Nick and Shamrock, and kudos to Bretsky, who disagrees with some of it, for acknowledging the same.

This is one tough spot. Having hindsight, it's clear that if there'd been some way to keep Wahle, that would have made much of this easier. The Pack still would have sucked last year, but it might have convinced Favre that two positions - center and right guard - were more fixable via developing current players. Still, my sense at the time was that no one thought the Packers could afford to keep Wahle. It seemed pretty inevitable, even to us posters.

You cannot - cannot - make draft day choices based on what you think Favre needs in order to be convinced to come back. You love Vince Young and think he's the next superstar QB, you take him. You think you can trade down and get extra picks that will turn into above average starters? You do it. Bottom line. If Favre really wants to play, he will. If it's truly dependent on his opinion as to the team's talent level, then maybe he really doesn't want to play that badly. And maybe Bretsky's right - maybe, if Favre would like to play but only for a contender - a trade would be in order. I bet a team like Tampa would be mightily interested.

[Partial]

This is a moot point, he wouldn't be criticizing management if he wasn't coming back. Then he is no better than the guys he has spoke out against.

[Fritz]

I disagree Partial. Perhaps he is criticizing management in an attempt to justify his retirement. Maybe he's concerned on some level about his reputation and by focusing on the team's shortcomings as his reason for retiring he can make it seem like it's all TT's fault.

[Bretsky]

This is a moot point, he wouldn't be criticizing management if he wasn't coming back. Then he is no better than the guys he has spoke out against.


He speaks pretty nicely of the way Ted Thompson used the 35 Million compared to me.

[MJZiggy]

This is not a criticism of Favre, it is my attempt at a dispassionate analysis of what has gone on with him.

For the last three months Favre has told the 21 other starters that essentially many of them are not "good enough" to play with him. In a somewhat round about way he has blamed 4-12 on others, and has never once since the end of the season (that I have seen) even hinted that his poor play last year may have contributed to 4-12. Those comments sound like the comments of a self-important egotist, not the team player that Brett Favre has always been.



But he did say that flat-out in this last press conference. He said that there were several games that he should have been able to pull us out of and he "failed to do it." and that's a big part of why his confidence is shaken.

I sincerely don't know what he's going to do. TT says the offseason's not over and he's not done, but I don't see what more he can do besides the draft and picking up some June 1 rejects.

Would't that suck if Favre retires and TT manages to put together an incredible o-line. I wonder if that's going through his mind as well. Perhaps TT told him he could do it?

[Patler]

.....

[GBRulz]

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned in of the of 50 favre threads out there, but last night they had Scott Favre on TV and he thinks Brett will retire. Unless of course the Packers get some FA's in there that can make an immediate contribution.

I don't really pay much attention when any of the media gives their 2 cents on what they think, but coming from Scott, it's a little different.

[woodbuck27]

OK . Let's PLEASE try to keep the facts as straight as we can.

I worked out and posted this statistic after week seven last Season:

Brett Favre had thrown for 14 TD's and 8 Picks through 6 Games and the Packer Record was 1W - 5L .

Favre Passing - 148 / 222 or 66.67% for 1577 Yard's and a QB Rating of 93.24 .

I feel so busted over all the Favre will or won't he play in 2006, that I had to summon up all my strength to post after reading this thread. There have been so many Articles on what stance he's in or not ; what Favre said or didn't say, that it's even becoming confusing to me. The propaganda is front and center. Even what he's shown us after all these year's is being misconstrued to - he's selfish and an egoist.

Give it a darn break, please.

Most of you if not all, have followed this man's entire career, and suddenly he's becoming the bad guy. Darn it , we all have to straighten up. There is one thing any dedicated Packer Fan should agree with. That is that Brett Favre is a fierce competitor and took the wins as they came, and the loss's terribly hard.

He never - never blamed his teammates and there is a distinction between the reality of who he is, and condemnation of him for things reported in the media. When he says that players like William Whitticker and Wells and Coston will be starting all over again, with the zone blocking system, he is merely stating a fact. Some misconstrue that as criticism of players? Favre never got to be who he is just because he has an amazing arm. He isn't stupid !

Brett Favre asked the Packers for support to avoid another 4-12 Season. He is a QB not the GM or Head Coach. He can only do his part. To make a statement, that he hoped that the Packers would attain a difference maker with the available salary cap isn't strange nor improper. He's saying simply nothing ventured nothing gained.

So what is going on ? Favre came into TC last Season and he had no idea of what he was in for. Losing two starting guards, meant getting in maximum shape, as he knew that he would face more pressure but surely the Packers would fill the gap somewhat. He did his part but despite that, it never happened. It never happened, because of too many QB pressures due to a poor OL ,and the fact that Favre never got comfortable with an Offence that became riddled with injury. Not enough weapons.

Do you re-call that next game after we blew it against the vikings? The game in Cinnci and the Fan on the field debaucle near games end. We lost by a TD, but there was Favre, still trying to get it done. He had Five (5) picks in that game and he almost got us in for the win still. He busted his ass.

Those two loss's would tear the heart out of most QB's ,and yes nmaybe we can speculate that Brett Favre began to say what the heck. We're now 1W and 6L and it's gone (over). He and Donald Driver couldn't do it by themselves. The only distraction from the Favre adversity was the play of Samkon Gado. When Gado went out what was left for us?

One ugly - ugly Season and 1/3 of Packer fans are all over Brett Favre. The " Packer Fans " remain in touch with reality. Brett Favre is really simple. He wants to play again. He wants to win.

So we hear statements by people like Doug Pederson and Scott Favre that they feel he will call it a career. Do they know that or feel that? Feel it would be best for Brett to let go?

Last week that is where I was, and I was there two weeks before that and a long time before that. I believe that Brett was absolutely screwed. He wasn't supported in the end of his career, and that is the way the history books will write the story.

I am sick at what has happened regarding Brett Favre. He is the last person this should have happened to. Why? Because he has always given the best he could, win or loose.

Too bad that the Packers forgot that.

Should he be traded? Why allow that and cover up this travesty? " Oh! We should get something for him, maybe even a fourth." Good Gracious but that is so sick !

[Fosco33]

The thing I appreciate most about Brett is his honesty and integrity - above all else. Throughout his career, Brett put the team above himself and his family - whether playing through injuries, restructuring his contract or making difficult decisions on whether or not to return (brother-in-law/father/wife issues).

And right now, Brett is saying what a lot of us have been saying/feeling for the past year - that a team w/ Brett at the helm shouldn't be in a 'rebuilding' mode. For all those people who think we'd be better off with AR or a draft prospect - consider Woody's post above. I recall this post (fondly) back at JSO and really consider the last half of last season as a fluke. The best athletes at every level have faltered at times OR retired before their peak passed (less Lance Armstrong).

If Brett were inhuman, his confidence wouldn't have been weakened after last year - but he is human. Brett is doing exactly what he should be as a HOF QB and defacto player rep of the Pack - asking for some help so the team can be successful. If he retires, people won't remember the retirement questions or certain out of context comments - they'll remember a guy who always overcame adversity to become the most hallowed QB in Packer history. If he comes back, he should commit to two years - that way TT gets a little time with this draft to pan out and to see if next year's FA is more worth spending the cash to get over the mediocre hump and on to the SB.

[Bretsky]

Would't that suck if Favre retires and TT manages to put together an incredible o-line. I wonder if that's going through his mind as well. Perhaps TT told him he could do it?

I'm sure that is one of the issues that is making this so hard for Favre. He probably knows he would prefer to retire than relive last year. He probably also knows that if the injured all heal, an O-line comes together, and the Packers have a winning record he will regret if he retires and doesn't play.

Last year I figured they could only keep one of two between Wahle and Rivera. Then it became apparent that they would and probably should let both go.

I was wrong, and so was TT. The Packers could, and should have found a way to keep Mike Wahle, an excelling guard still entering the prime of his career. Cliff Cristl was about the only one I know that really pushed that point. Even if it meat letting go of a guy like Bubba, or restructuring others, GB could have and should have down that.

But it would have had to be finished before free agency because once Wahle hit the open market he was out the door.

[MJZiggy]

B, he was a cap cut. All he had to do was come up with 6 million dollars of cap space because Wahle was still under contract. Who was it that thought TT was thinking he could cut Wahle and then resign him and move the money, but Wahle wouldn't resign.

[Bretsky]

Woody and Fosco,

Great posts and my portrayal of a Hall of Fame QB who might be best off looking at other opportunities is not an indictment of Brett Favre, the player or the person. He is my favorite football player of all time, and I want to see him win. Just read another post where Favre reportedly asked MM if they can win this year....that's why I think his head is swinging back and forth. I wish TT would have shored our depth and talent up better so his decision to come back would have already been made.

[MJZiggy]

I wonder what Lombardi would have said to him?

[swede]

Woodbuck: Do you re-call that next game after we blew it against the vikings? The game in Cinnci and the Fan on the field debaucle near games end. We lost by a TD, but there was Favre, still trying to get it done. He had Five (5) picks in that game and he almost got us in for the win still. He busted his ass.


Five picks. Gee I wonder how we managed to lose that game?

Oh yeah...TT!

[swede]

Nick and Shamrock,

Excellent posts.

Bretsky. I'd be happy for Brett if he went to another team and helped them win. At this point, however, I don't know if he can pick up a new offense and play well. It's not physical with Brett. He's got an amazing amount left in the tank. But he hates to sit in a room and talk. He hates meetings and listening to coaches drone on and on. A new team would kill Brett. He already dreads coming back to this one with a bunch of new coaches.

I'd be happier if he stayed here and tried to play mistake-free football for us for another season or two. I am afraid, however, that he can no longer be coached and will be unwilling to change his five-pick a game habit.

As it is, he's inappropriately attempting to leverage the GM into throwing money at imaginary free agents that will somehow save the team.

I love Brett. Always will. But this off-season act is quickly growing old.

[Bretsky]

I don't buy the he's impossilbe to coach theory; I don't think anybody with the ability to help him has been a coach for a while now. I'd be happy if BF just comes out and succeeds.

[billy_oliver880]

I don't buy the he's impossilbe to coach theory; I don't think anybody with the ability to help him has been a coach for a while now. I'd be happy if BF just comes out and succeeds.

Maybe they just need a guy who is willing to shoot Brett straight. Tell him whats happening and how to fix it. I think the last qb coach we had was sort of a stop gap.

[Bretsky]

I don't buy the he's impossilbe to coach theory; I don't think anybody with the ability to help him has been a coach for a while now. I'd be happy if BF just comes out and succeeds.

Maybe they just need a guy who is willing to shoot Brett straight. Tell him whats happening and how to fix it. I think the last qb coach we had was sort of a stop gap.


I agree
Bevell could teach Favre little
Favre reportedly had several issues with Rossley
I was never convinced Sherman tried to coach him on gameday like Holmy did.

Maybe MM can help him ?

[woodbuck27]

"I am afraid, however, that he can no longer be coached and will be unwilling to change his five-pick a game habit. " Swede


OK allllriigghhtyy then. 16 games x 5 Picks/game =

ONLY 90 picks and Brett Favre = PRICELESS !

[swede]

Maybe not 90 picks a year, but enough that every defense that faces Brett is completely aware of his propensity for tossing it up and they game plan around picking him off.

Think back to the early years and how Brett had to walk back to a red-faced, wild-eyed, mustache-bristling Holmgren after forcing throws into coverage. He learned and he broke his bad habits.

I believe that Brett could come back and play at a Pro-Bowl level again. He had enough pride to work with a trainer and improve his body. If he could work with the coaching staff in a matter-of-fact way to improve his decision-making in games he'd be fine.

Look, TT and MM have some work to do also. They need to pick Vernon Davis and sell Brett on the return of a true West-Coast passing attack. The hallmark pass of favre's career was never really the long ball. He's okay at the long ball, but not great. With favre it was that laser-strike hitting a receiver on a slant: the West-Coast medium-distance stuff. Watch the wins pile up if that starts to happen again.

[Tarlam!]

Good last post Swede. Double TE sets is what we lacked under Sherman. Instead he relied on the U71 package one season too long. When Bubba went down last season, those to back-up TEs stepped up. I cannot fathom why they were never on the field at the same time with DD and Chat....

[Fosco33]

This is freaky... 8-)

[HarveyWallbangers]

How come all of Patler's posts are edited? Apparently, Patler was Shamrock, but I only remember him as Patler. This was back when JustinHarrell was NickCollins.

[th87]

Wow, Swede knows his stuff.

[falco]

what are you trying to hide patler????

all of his posts are edited in the middle of the night.......

also, I think patler has always been patler here...wasn't he only shamrock at JSO?

[Rastak]

what are you trying to hide patler????

all of his posts are edited in the middle of the night.......

also, I think patler has always been patler here...wasn't he only shamrock at JSO?


He was Shamrock here at first.

[Rastak]

Wow, what happened to the "screw Brett Favre" tone?


That's all I've been hearing for a few weeks, other than a select few.

[Guiness]

How come all of Patler's posts are edited? Apparently, Patler was Shamrock, but I only remember him as Patler. This was back when JustinHarrell was NickCollins.

Nah, Patler showed up here as Shamrockfan, and some started calling him Shamler shortly after...he has a pretty distinct writing style that was recognized. He came out of the closet shortly after, and it's been happily ever after.

IIRC it was related to the whole CE/JSO/PR split, and you were deciding where to hang your hat, wasn't it Patler?

I'm confused about your editing your posts as well though; your posts are always good, and I don't know why you'd want any of them removed.

[ZachMN]

so a few of you saw the potential in Bretts early years even while he was struggling? Thats easy to say now with hindsight however whose to say Arod wont have some bad games but in the long run the team will be better off with him improving under real conditions instead of being emotional about a qb whose best days are behind him.........

[texaspackerbacker]

I respect Bretsky and others' support for Brett Favre. I consider myself a Favre supporter too in the sense that if asked the question, "who's the greatest NFL player, not just QB ever?" I'd answer unequivocally, Brett Favre.

I also am saddened/disgusted/whatever by all the hateful references to Favre being posted these days.

However--and it's a gigantic HOWEVER, the real question for all REAL fans is what is best for the Packers prospects of winning? Clearly, Thompson and McCarthy--the GM and Coach who gave us 13-3/14-4 last season--are convinced that is Rodgers at QB rather than Favre. I ask all of you who disagree, what are your qualifications to dispute Thompson and McCarthy? Sure, everybody is free to have an opinion--you know the old line, opinions are like assholes, everybody has one. Somebody's is gonna turn out to be correct, though, and my money is on the GM and Coach who have been so successful in producing a winning Packer team.

So if we START with the concept that Favre is NOT gonna be the starting Packer QB this season, WHAT do we want to see? I ask that to those of you who are his most fervent supporters. Do you want to see him play AGAINST the Packers? Do you want to see him playing for some other team that likely won't play the Packers--never mind whether he would succeed or fail? Or would you rather see him fade back into retirement--preferably with one bridge not burned--the possiblity of him riding to the rescue if Rodgers is hurt? Could any of you possibly NOT choose the third answer?

And would any of you really have a problem with the $20 or 25 million thing? Call it bribery/whatever, I call it tribute/respect.

[Harlan Huckleby]

So if we START with the concept that Favre is NOT gonna be the starting Packer QB this season, WHAT do we want to see? I ask that to those of you who are his most fervent supporters. Do you want to see him play AGAINST the Packers? Do you want to see him playing for some other team that likely won't play the Packers--never mind whether he would succeed or fail? Or would you rather see him fade back into retirement--preferably with one bridge not burned--the possiblity of him riding to the rescue if Rodgers is hurt? Could any of you possibly NOT choose the third answer?

Well said. I think a lot of people are holding on to the idea that Favre may yet ride into town and win the starting QB job. Maybe minds will change if it becomes clear that can't happen - after the the packers to do something dramatic, and maybe not so pleasing.

[SnakeLH2006]

Who the hell is bringing these pointless threads back? Damn, go on Youtube and get some attention.

[Lurker64]

Who the hell is bringing these pointless threads back? Damn, go on Youtube and get some attention.

People read Youtube comments? Honestly I've come to the conclusion that it is impossible to make a comment on Youtube that is so stupid that people will assume you're joking. After all, however stupid I attempt to make my comment as a joke will be dwarfed by the stupidity of someone who is actually posting in earnest. It appears to be like a logical and mathematical impossibility, but therein lies the magic of Youtube.

[SnakeLH2006]

Who the hell is bringing these pointless threads back? Damn, go on Youtube and get some attention.

People read Youtube comments? Honestly I've come to the conclusion that it is impossible to make a comment on Youtube that is so stupid that people will assume you're joking. After all, however stupid I attempt to make my comment as a joke will be dwarfed by the stupidity of someone who is actually posting in earnest. It appeals like a logical and mathematical impossibility, but therein lies the magic of Youtube.

:lol: You shoulda posted that on Youtube.