NFL Policy on Anabolic Steroids and Related Substances 2007

[RashanGary]

The NFL Policy on Anabolic Steroids and Related Substances
http://www.scribd.com/doc/14066744/NFL-Banned-Substances





Section 3-E states:

“Players are responsible for what is in their bodies, and a positive test result will not be excused because a player was unaware that he was taking a Prohibited Substance. If you have questions or concerns about a particular dietary supplement or other product you should contact Dr. John Lombardo at (614) 442-0106. As the NFL Advisor on Anabolic Steroids and Related Substances, Dr. Lombardo is authorized to respond to players’ questions regarding specific supplements. Having your Club’s medical or training staff approve a supplement will not excuse a positive test result.


Section 8 states:

“The use of so-called “blocking” or “masking” agents is prohibited by this policy. These included diuretics or water pills, which have been used in the past by some playrs to reach and assigned weight. In addition, a positive test will not be excused because it results from the use of a dietary supplement, rather than from the direct use of steroids. Players are responsible for what is in their bodies. For more information, see appendix F.


Appendix F states:

Over the past several years, we have made a special effort to educate and warn players about the risks involved in the use of “nutritional supplements.” Despite these efforts, several players have been suspended even though their positive test result may have been due to the use of supplements. Subject to your right of appeal, if you test positive or otherwise violate the policy, you will be suspended. You and you alone are responsible for what goes into your body. Claiming that you used only legally available nutritional supplements will not help you in an appeal.

As the Policy clearly warns, supplements are not regulated or monitored by the government. This means that, even if they are bought over-the-counter from a known establishment, there is currently no way to be sure that they: a) contain the ingredients listed on the packaging; b) have not been tainted with prohibited substances; or c) have the properties or effects claimed by the manufacturer or salesperson.

Therefor, if you take these products, you do so AT YOUR OWN RISK! For your own health and success in the league, we strongly encourage you to avoid the use of supplements altogether, or at the very least be extremely careful about what you chose to take. Take care and good luck this season.

[RashanGary]

I've been saying this for a while, but it seems pretty clear.

[pbmax]

I've been saying this for a while, but it seems pretty clear.
What is clear is that you are fuzzy on jurisdiction.

[MadScientist]

I've been saying this for a while, but it seems pretty clear.
What is clear is that you are fuzzy on jurisdiction.
There was a lot of press about how StarCaps did not list the banned substance, which generated sympathy for the guilty players. This shows they deserve no sympathy. I highly doubt they threw caution to the wind because they looked up the MN laws and thought the NFL rules would not apply to them.

[RashanGary]

I've been saying this for a while, but it seems pretty clear.
What is clear is that you are fuzzy on jurisdiction.

I understand that State Law allows for the explanation of innocent use, but they agreed that they would be found in violation of their agreement if they took a supplement containing any banned substance, even if the company they were buying from did not disclose all of hte contents.

In normal circumstances, I could see how that might be viewed as, "innocent use", but in this case, because they agreed that it was not innocent use, it's cut and dry.

This agreement did not violate state law in a way that allowed these two to slip out of the agreement they signed and really, the NFL's policy was written tight enough to hold up. I'm very satisfied with the results. The NFL had some minor violations, but nothing that frees these two from the responsiblity they agreed to.

[RashanGary]

When the state law got drug into it, I wondered if maybe something interfered with the NFL policy. I wasn't quite as sure then.

But as far as those two breaking the rule they agreed to. That was never in doubt like many Viking fans seem to think it was.

[pbmax]

I've been saying this for a while, but it seems pretty clear.
What is clear is that you are fuzzy on jurisdiction.
There was a lot of press about how StarCaps did not list the banned substance, which generated sympathy for the guilty players. This shows they deserve no sympathy. I highly doubt they threw caution to the wind because they looked up the MN laws and thought the NFL rules would not apply to them.
I doubt they did either. But not knowing the law isn't an excuse when you commit a crime and its no excuse for a poorly written legal section of the CBA. Its a known factor in labor negotiations across state lines and the NFL blew their chance to get the correct language in there. Tough.

Just because both parties are ignorant of the law does not mean their contract can avoid it.

[pbmax]

Eh, I am just repeating myself

:repost:

But let me say that "innocent use" (if I understand what you mean by that) hasn't been contested in this case since the first ruling came out:

(7) the league did not violate the Minnesota Consumable Products Act, which protects the use of publicly-available products on an employee's personal time.

The NFL lost on its exposure to State Law (it is applicable) and the fact that for the purposes of the CBA and the Drug Policy, they are the employer. The NFL lost on a late notification of the positive test. And they won on breach of confidentiality (the judge said the Williams' did not reach the preponderance of the evidence threshold).

But most importantly, the league won that monetary damage was not done by the late test, so the suspensions (pending appeals) can take place without further adjudication (to determine damages-edit). But what really chaps my hide is that the league knew about the Bumetanide and did not tell the players or the Feds. And despite having this fact established by the court, the NFL skates on it.

They could have avoided the whole thing by anonymously reporting to the Feds, waiting for the government to release a statement or call for a hearing, and then publicly advising players to avoid it specifically for the reason of Bumetanide. Instead, they sat on their hands.

[Iron Mike]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xKG07305CBs

[RashanGary]

I like that the NFL didn't tell the players about it. Maybe once and for all, even the most stubborn of players will realize that the supplement field is sketchy and to avoid it entirely, unless it's on the list. It was just a matter of time before some other ignorant player did it with another drug. Now, I think teams will do a better job educating.

It's like a parent who chases their two year old around until he's 6 or 7, making sure he never bumps his knee, stubs his toe or falls down. You spend all of that energy chasing that kid around, but one day he's on his bike and rides into tree because he's not used to looking out for himself. Protect against the deadly, dangerous things. Minor falls and dings help not only in avoiding future minor falls and dings, but also in avoiding the real dangers. This was a great wake up call for everyone in the NFL. Teams will educate much better. Maybe now players know, what goes into their body is on them and trusting the supplement field is not an excuse. They signed it, agreed to it, but clearly didn't pay attention. Now their attention is had.

[sharpe1027]

I like that the NFL didn't tell the players about it.

Would you feel the same way if someone had a serious health problem (allergy, adverse reaction, ect) resulting from the use of Star Caps?

[pbmax]

I like that the NFL didn't tell the players about it.

Would you feel the same way if someone had a serious health problem (allergy, adverse reaction, ect) resulting from the use of Star Caps?
Shouldn't everyone in your family subscribe to the NFL Drug Policy agreement?

:lol:

[MadScientist]

I like that the NFL didn't tell the players about it.

Would you feel the same way if someone had a serious health problem (allergy, adverse reaction, ect) resulting from the use of Star Caps?
Shouldn't everyone in your family subscribe to the NFL Drug Policy agreement?

:lol:
Actually not trusting things sold as a dietary supplement is a good idea in general. Unregulated, uncontrolled crap with false claims of magic health benefits.

[pbmax]

I like that the NFL didn't tell the players about it.

Would you feel the same way if someone had a serious health problem (allergy, adverse reaction, ect) resulting from the use of Star Caps?
Shouldn't everyone in your family subscribe to the NFL Drug Policy agreement?

:lol:
Actually not trusting things sold as a dietary supplement is a good idea in general. Unregulated, uncontrolled crap with false claims of magic health benefits.
Agreed. But if you found dog food in the kids Flintstone Chewables, I bet you might call somebody beside your lawyer.

[RashanGary]

Actually, it wasn't the NFL drug policy that did this to the Williams duo. The NFL drug policy specifically outlined that the supplement industry is not regulated by the government and cannot be trusted even to contain what it says is in the bottle. They did warn them about all companies jsut like star caps.

What did the Williams' go do? Exactly what the NFL warned them against.


Now that it's over, star caps is busted, but i guarantee there is another one on the shelf somewhere that is doing the same thing.

NFL players can either avoid them or use them at their own risk. There is a good chance the bottle or brand they buy is not tainted, but if it is, they signed an agreement saying they understand they cannot be trusted and will be suspended if it happens.

[sharpe1027]

Actually, it wasn't the NFL drug policy that did this to the Williams duo. The NFL drug policy specifically outlined that the supplement industry is not regulated by the government and cannot be trusted even to contain what it says is in the bottle. They did warn them about all companies jsut like star caps.

What did the Williams' go do? Exactly what the NFL warned them against.


Now that it's over, star caps is busted, but i guarantee there is another one on the shelf somewhere that is doing the same thing.

NFL players can either avoid them or use them at their own risk. There is a good chance the bottle or brand they buy is not tainted, but if it is, they signed an agreement saying they understand they cannot be trusted and will be suspended if it happens.

No, it doesn't excuse what the players did.

I think the point you aren't acknowledging is that the NFL showed very poor judgment in not immediately warning people about the potential dangers they discovered.

[Patler]

Actually, it wasn't the NFL drug policy that did this to the Williams duo. The NFL drug policy specifically outlined that the supplement industry is not regulated by the government and cannot be trusted even to contain what it says is in the bottle. They did warn them about all companies jsut like star caps.

What did the Williams' go do? Exactly what the NFL warned them against.


Now that it's over, star caps is busted, but i guarantee there is another one on the shelf somewhere that is doing the same thing.

NFL players can either avoid them or use them at their own risk. There is a good chance the bottle or brand they buy is not tainted, but if it is, they signed an agreement saying they understand they cannot be trusted and will be suspended if it happens.

No, it doesn't excuse what the players did.

I think the point you aren't acknowledging is that the NFL showed very poor judgment in not immediately warning people about the potential dangers they discovered.

How many other employers with drug policies are expected to do their employees due diligence for them on every over the counter drug or food supplement they might take? Time to place responsibility for what they take solely on the person taking it. These are adults after all.

[sharpe1027]

No, it doesn't excuse what the players did.

I think the point you aren't acknowledging is that the NFL showed very poor judgment in not immediately warning people about the potential dangers they discovered.

How many other employers with drug policies are expected to do their employees due diligence for them on every over the counter drug or food supplement they might take? Time to place responsibility for what they take solely on the person taking it. These are adults after all.

Anyone that has knowledge of a controlled substance being found where it should not be shows poor judgment if they chose not act on that knowledge. It really has nothing to do with the players, it is a health issue. Common sense says you warn the public about the potential dangers.

[Patler]

Anyone that has knowledge of a controlled substance being found where it should not be shows poor judgment if they chose not act on that knowledge. It really has nothing to do with the players, it is a health issue. Common sense says you warn the public about the potential dangers.

That's not the NFL's job, nor any other employers. That's what the FDA, etc. are for. There is probably a liability issue there too that employers want to avoid.

[pbmax]

Actually, it wasn't the NFL drug policy that did this to the Williams duo. The NFL drug policy specifically outlined that the supplement industry is not regulated by the government and cannot be trusted even to contain what it says is in the bottle. They did warn them about all companies jsut like star caps.

What did the Williams' go do? Exactly what the NFL warned them against.


Now that it's over, star caps is busted, but i guarantee there is another one on the shelf somewhere that is doing the same thing.

NFL players can either avoid them or use them at their own risk. There is a good chance the bottle or brand they buy is not tainted, but if it is, they signed an agreement saying they understand they cannot be trusted and will be suspended if it happens.

No, it doesn't excuse what the players did.

I think the point you aren't acknowledging is that the NFL showed very poor judgment in not immediately warning people about the potential dangers they discovered.

How many other employers with drug policies are expected to do their employees due diligence for them on every over the counter drug or food supplement they might take? Time to place responsibility for what they take solely on the person taking it. These are adults after all.
Certainly true in the abstract, typical case. But once the NFL came into possession of of such information, why did they sit on it?

No one expects them to test everything. But they opened the can of worms by testing Star Caps on their own initiative. And judging by Pat Williams testimony, they may have done so because team staff (in Williams' case, the Buffalo trainers) had told players that the stuff was safe for weight loss. And they clearly suspected something was amiss since they did not suspend the previous group of positives that could be attributed to Star Caps.

Why didn't the NFL report their findings to the Feds at least? They can at least construct a plausible legal and precedent avoiding rationale for not telling the players, but why not warn the public anonymously?

This situation stinks and there is something missing. Whether that something would exonerate the Williams is doubtful. But something else seems to be at play. Both federal and state judges have been surprised at the level of mistrust and secrecy on both sides.

And I think the broader issue is what DO colleges and NFL teams provide for supplements that are considered safe and legal? Because its not advances in dumbbells that have produced 300 lbs athletes in abundance over the last 20-30 years.

[Patler]

Why didn't the NFL report their findings to the Feds at least? They can at least construct a plausible legal and precedent avoiding rationale for not telling the players, but why not warn the public anonymously?


Do we know that they didn't?

[twoseven]

if these guys were getting nabbed for something they got at the Piggly Wiggly i might feel sorry for them. they got in trouble for taking something to try and (at worst) slim their fat asses down a bit after their own laziness got them in need of some weight loss to begin with. whether or not they were masking something else is irrelevant to me. the minute you take something that is meant to illicit a faster repsonse to help you (fill in the blank) you should be 100% liable for doing your own homework as to what is in it and what may get you in to trouble. since they couldn't slim down the old fashioned way, they chose to 'cheat' a bit and pop some pills. fine, do your damn research then like most of the rest of us that use supplements that don't get paid millions to play football and hopefully stay ellgibile to play each week. better yet, conatct a team or league official and figure it out together. get a busy signal? call them back a few dozen times until you get it right, or is a potential 4 game suspension not enough motivation?

in my opinion, them staying in the best possible shape is a job skill. the get paid a shitload of money to do this job. so not taking the necessary steps to clear yourself of any trouble before hand is completely inexcusable when you start popping pills that can have a direct effect on your job. are they children?

it doesn't matter what i take, i have no banned lists to worry about, but i still manage to read the friggin labels and do my own homework before i put anything into my body that is outside of your everyday grocery items. i do it for simple safety rules and because i want to know what i am swallowing and what it can do to me. they have many millions of additonal reasons to figure this same stuff out. they deserve 4 games for plain old laziness or stupidity or arrogance or all of the above or whatever reason they have for not caring enough to be smarter about the decision they made. just my opinion.

[sharpe1027]

That's not the NFL's job, nor any other employers. That's what the FDA, etc. are for. There is probably a liability issue there too that employers want to avoid.

Then it should have been reported to the FDA, ect., immediately. I find it disturbing that people would think it is OK to sit on this type of information simply because it is not their job. Basic decency and concern for other people's well being should kick in at some point.

[sharpe1027]

Why didn't the NFL report their findings to the Feds at least? They can at least construct a plausible legal and precedent avoiding rationale for not telling the players, but why not warn the public anonymously?


Do we know that they didn't?

Yep, it came out in court.

[Patler]

Why didn't the NFL report their findings to the Feds at least? They can at least construct a plausible legal and precedent avoiding rationale for not telling the players, but why not warn the public anonymously?


Do we know that they didn't?

Yep, it came out in court.

I hadn't seen that, but I will certainly take your word for it.

[RashanGary]

My understanding is that the NFL found this in players systems in 2005 and 2006. The players who tested positive claimed they took star caps and it does not show up on the label. The NFL tested to see if that was true. They found out it was.

In 2007, they added appendix F to their Steroid and related substance policy, which specifically warned about diuretics not being regulated by the federal government and not being able to trust what is in the bottle. They sent out letters to all of the players and all of the teams about the inherent dangers about taking supplements because you can never be sure what is in the bottle, even if it says one thing. .

These guys got that letter. Their teams got letters. They signed the policy. Outside of calling out starcaps directy, they went above and beyond their responsiblity to warn these guys.

[RashanGary]

And I don't think the NFL wants their players to stop taking starcaps specifically. They want them to stop taking supplements because the whole industry is unregulated and dangerous.

I think it's true that they sort of let these guys be an example or play "gotchya" like the judge said. Did it have possible dangers? Maybe. Was it ethical? Maybe not.

But, in the end nobody got hurt and without this happening, there was no way to get it through the players skulls that they should not be taking supplements. They were warned and kept doing it. Now the NFL got it's point across and as far as I'm concerned, that's what it takes with these guys. They just don't listen.

I compare it to letting your kid learn a lesson. Sometimes the best way to teach a lesson is to warn them, and then let them find out for themselves if they don't listen. That's what we have here, a couple cocky kids who don't head warnings and a league that is sick of babying it's employees. It's time they take some responsibility for their own actions. Good for the NFL

[hoosier]

And I don't think the NFL wants their players to stop taking starcaps specifically. They want them to stop taking supplements because the whole industry is unregulated and dangerous.

I think it's true that they sort of let these guys be an example or play "gotchya" like the judge said. Did it have possible dangers? Maybe. Was it ethical? Maybe not.

But, in the end nobody got hurt and without this happening, there was no way to get it through the players skulls that they should not be taking supplements. They were warned and kept doing it. Now the NFL got it's point across and as far as I'm concerned, that's what it takes with these guys. They just don't listen.

I compare it to letting your kid learn a lesson. Sometimes the best way to teach a lesson is to warn them, and then let them find out for themselves if they don't listen. That's what we have here, a couple cocky kids who don't head warnings and a league that is sick of babying it's employees. It's time they take some responsibility for their own actions. Good for the NFL

I don't agree. Bad analogy. The players are not children and the NFL is not a parent. In this case the NFL becomes aware of a problem related to a specific product that certain players are known to be likely to take. Individual players do not have the time or resources to test legal but non FDA approved supplements. If the league becomes aware of a specific problem it should be sharing whatever knowledge it has with players. By withholding this knowledge, or by publicizing it in an intentionally vague way ("diuretics"), the league creates the impression that it was waiting for somebody to take it so they could make an example of them. Why not just issue a memo stating that diuretics in general should be treated with great suspicion because Starcaps in particular has been found to contain X?

[Guiness]

it doesn't matter what i take, i have no banned lists to worry about, but i still manage to read the friggin labels

I agree with what you're saying in pricipal - but a big part of the problem here was that Starcaps had stuff in it that wasn't on the label.

However, I still find them at fault. I remember my grade 12 (Canadian) law, where they explained different types of laws, and that you don't always have to have intent to break a law. With some laws, it's up to you to make sure you aren't breaking it. The example given was duck hunting - in some cases, you're not allowed to use decoys. If you get caught hunting with them, you're at fault, and saying 'I didn't put them out, they were here when I got here, I guess' is not a defense. It's up to you to search the area and make sure there are no decoys BEFORE you start hunting.

I would say this is the same sort of thing. It was up to them to make sure the supplements were clean, and they certainly make enough money to have them sent away and independently tested.

There are a couple of things that are interesting from the other side though. Something else that is at issue is how long it took the NFL to advise them that the had failed the test. Minn law says the employer has three days to notify them? That certainly didn't happen, they sat on the info a lot longer than that.

[Patler]

If the league becomes aware of a specific problem it should be sharing whatever knowledge it has with players. By withholding this knowledge, or by publicizing it in an intentionally vague way ("diuretics"), the league creates the impression that it was waiting for somebody to take it so they could make an example of them. Why not just issue a memo stating that diuretics in general should be treated with great suspicion because Starcaps in particular has been found to contain X?

I disagree. If you specifically identify some, then players will argue they assumed others were OK. If you simply say "diuretics" they are on notice for the risk in taking any diuretic.

If you are on notice for all diuretics, why is it necessary to specifically identify one? Apparently the league preferred them to avoid all of them.

[MadScientist]

And I don't think the NFL wants their players to stop taking starcaps specifically. They want them to stop taking supplements because the whole industry is unregulated and dangerous.

I think it's true that they sort of let these guys be an example or play "gotchya" like the judge said. Did it have possible dangers? Maybe. Was it ethical? Maybe not.

But, in the end nobody got hurt and without this happening, there was no way to get it through the players skulls that they should not be taking supplements. They were warned and kept doing it. Now the NFL got it's point across and as far as I'm concerned, that's what it takes with these guys. They just don't listen.

I compare it to letting your kid learn a lesson. Sometimes the best way to teach a lesson is to warn them, and then let them find out for themselves if they don't listen. That's what we have here, a couple cocky kids who don't head warnings and a league that is sick of babying it's employees. It's time they take some responsibility for their own actions. Good for the NFL
In this case the NFL becomes aware of a problem related to a specific product that certain players are known to be likely to take. Individual players do not have the time or resources to test legal but non FDA approved supplements. If the league becomes aware of a specific problem it should be sharing whatever knowledge it has with players. By withholding this knowledge, or by publicizing it in an intentionally vague way ("diuretics"), the league creates the impression that it was waiting for somebody to take it so they could make an example of them. Why not just issue a memo stating that diuretics in general should be treated with great suspicion because Starcaps in particular has been found to contain X?

The league likely did not test all products, so the blanket warning about the diuretics makes sense. A specific warning may give the impression that the league is checking on things and warning when it finds problems. Furthermore, if they somehow made a mistake and warned players specifically against a safe product, it could open up new levels of trouble, since they are in effect accusing a manufacturer of an illegal activity.

[hoosier]

I think it is fine to say that, as far as the NFL is concerned, the Williams boys are responsible for whatever they put in their body. And the suspension seems to me a reasonable price to pay if they screw up. But that does not mean that the NFL cannot also have a responsibility to keep players informed about potential problems like this to the best of its ability, and I think in that respect the NFL as employer has repeatedly failed in its responsibility (with lack of adequate pension plans, with lack of attention to long-term health risks associated with concussions, and so on). It is very one-sided to say that Pat Williams is a victim of his own laziness. He may well be too lazy to meet his weight ceiling without supplements, but the industry has created a demand for human beings who are essentially immovable objects, and in that sense I see the lack of full disclosure about Star Caps as part of the NFL's long history of short sightedness about the health of its players.

[twoseven]

it doesn't matter what i take, i have no banned lists to worry about, but i still manage to read the friggin labels

I agree with what you're saying in pricipal - but a big part of the problem here was that Starcaps had stuff in it that wasn't on the label.

However, I still find them at fault. I remember my grade 12 (Canadian) law, where they explained different types of laws, and that you don't always have to have intent to break a law. With some laws, it's up to you to make sure you aren't breaking it. The example given was duck hunting - in some cases, you're not allowed to use decoys. If you get caught hunting with them, you're at fault, and saying 'I didn't put them out, they were here when I got here, I guess' is not a defense. It's up to you to search the area and make sure there are no decoys BEFORE you start hunting.

I would say this is the same sort of thing. It was up to them to make sure the supplements were clean, and they certainly make enough money to have them sent away and independently tested.

There are a couple of things that are interesting from the other side though. Something else that is at issue is how long it took the NFL to advise them that the had failed the test. Minn law says the employer has three days to notify them? That certainly didn't happen, they sat on the info a lot longer than that.i agree. and it would suck if you took something and got screwed by a mistake ingredient. for me it comes down to 'why did they choose to swallow what they chose to swallow'.

apparently they chose to swallow something rather than get on a treadmill or say no to that extra helping of food. it's easy to pull out all the legalities and fine print once they are already in trouble, something that has happened adnaseum. my issue is with their intentions from the onset and how they chose to go about cutting weight, and ultimately what they chose to swallow.

http://www.dietpillcritic.com/diet-pills/starcaps/
http://www.criticalorie.com/2008/starcaps-review/
http://hubpages.com/hub/Starcap-Diet-Pills-Exposed

whenever i am researching any supplement i do a simple internet search of a as many sites as i need to to determine how effective they may be, what they may contain, etc. i look for as many non-baised reviews as i can find so as to make hopefully an educated decision. from my searches Starcaps seems a crock of shit, like it has no chance of working at all. one site after another explains in simple detail how the ingredients in the product do not contribute to wieghtloss. so once again, just from these claims alone i wouldn't bother with this product. so why did a couple professional players take something that seems more fiction than fact when there are other alternatives out there that do actually work? that it turns out that things they took are also masking steroids in some cases just adds more stink to the smell for me.

i guess if they took somethnig that is noted for actually contributing to weightloss it would be easier for me to understand. sounds like they took a bottle of crap that didn't help them with weightloss, but it did get them into trouble. very strange. makes you wonder who these guys get their input from.

i can still remember kevin williams needing to sit and take oxygen for quite a few minutes after he took a turnover against DAL back for a TD some years back (turkey day game, maybe?). all i could think as he went on and on not catching his breath was how horrible his conidtioning program must be. this guy was on the bench for a long time not recovering. i know, he's a heavy guy, but i have seen plenty of big dudes recover after 5-10 minutes or so, williams did not, it was kind of a scary sight. he needs more than just a good lawyer and some pills, dude needs a new training routine.

[pbmax]

Why didn't the NFL report their findings to the Feds at least? They can at least construct a plausible legal and precedent avoiding rationale for not telling the players, but why not warn the public anonymously?


Do we know that they didn't?
I will need to dig, but I think someone questioned the FDA (or the USDA, whichever administration was looking into it after the news was leaked) and they did not have a complaint on file.

[pbmax]

In 2007, they added appendix F to their Steroid and related substance policy, which specifically warned about diuretics not being regulated by the federal government and not being able to trust what is in the bottle.
Not quite. Diuretics (like Bumetanide) ARE regulated by the Federal Government like all other controlled substances. Supplement is the word you are looking for as they are not tested by the Feds.

[pbmax]

PFT has the date that Star Caps production was shut down here:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2008/10/30/starcaps-pulls-the-plug/

in Twin Cities paper. Basically at the end of October 2008.

Interestingly, there is an research paper http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18093421 mentioned in the article in which a study at the University of Utah found bumetanide in Star Caps. In 2007. How this did not launch action by the FDA (considering they have jurisdiction over prescription drugs, is curious).

Not necessarily coincidentally, one of the testing labs used by the NFL is in Utah I think. If anyone comes up with the facility, it would be interesting if it was the same center. For the testing in the article, the lab used was the Center for Human Toxicology at the University of Utah in Salt Lake City.

Still looking for the FDA investigation info.

[pbmax]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/03/10/league-admits-inconsistent-treatment-of-starcaps-users/

OK, one conspiracy down, one still kicking. The testing lab used by the NFL for Star Caps was Aegis Sciences Corporation, not the Toxicology Lab at the University of Utah.

But as for the FDA:


"Mr. Crouch, a toxicologist at Aegis, found Bumetanide in StarCaps and informed [Adolpho] Birch and Dr. Lombardo of the results," Judge Larson wrote. "In November 2006, Mr. Crouch volunteered to notify the FDA that StarCaps contained Bumetanide. Dr. Lombardo agreed that the FDA should be notified. Birch, however, claimed responsibility for warning the FDA. Birch never did so."

[RashanGary]

The league likely did not test all products, so the blanket warning about the diuretics makes sense. A specific warning may give the impression that the league is checking on things and warning when it finds problems. Furthermore, if they somehow made a mistake and warned players specifically against a safe product, it could open up new levels of trouble, since they are in effect accusing a manufacturer of an illegal activity.

This is a great post. Now these guys know it's on them. Let's see if they go out using other supplements or if they learn their lesson and avoid that whole sketchy industry.

Time will tell. We'll see how dumb these guys are.

[RashanGary]

The NFL trains these children about going to clubs, guns, dangerous situations, sex, drugs, supplements. . . .

The NFL probably knows a particular night club in New York is riddled with problems, but is it their responsibility to tell every player about club superskank's reputation? They're already going above and beyond with how much they educate these guys. They went above and beyond to warn these guys about taking supplements like starcaps.

These guys still go out and do these things over and over and over. At some point, the responsiblity is on the person. It's pathetic how many people want to blame someone else for their own decisions and actions.

Don't want rape charges, stop pressuring women to have sex with you. Don't want do have drug and alcohol suspensions, don't use drugs and alcohol. Don't want to get caught with illegal diuretics in you system? Don't take supplements that your employer warns you are untrustable.

Maybe now these irresponsible, blame everyone else for their own bad decision making children can wake up and realize they're responsible for their decisions and actions.

Bravo to the NFL for holding it's employees accountable for their own decisions and actions. They should be commended for setting a good, high standard of personal responsibility in a society where blaming others for our own decisions is standard. I can't believe some of the things people are saying on this. How were you raised? Big brother gonna look out for your every move?

[Patler]

But as for the FDA:


"Mr. Crouch, a toxicologist at Aegis, found Bumetanide in StarCaps and informed [Adolpho] Birch and Dr. Lombardo of the results," Judge Larson wrote. "In November 2006, Mr. Crouch volunteered to notify the FDA that StarCaps contained Bumetanide. Dr. Lombardo agreed that the FDA should be notified. Birch, however, claimed responsibility for warning the FDA. Birch never did so."

Not arguing, just commenting, it seems to me like the lab would be the proper party to notify the FDA, not some guy in the league office. The lab could answer questions on their procedures and results. All Birch would have is the lab's report.

Does the lab have any less repsonsibility to the public than the league?
Does the lab, as the technical expert, have more responsibility to the public?

[RashanGary]

It's so funny. The NFL warns these guys not to take supplements because they are not regulated and cannot be trusted. The players go and take supplements that turn out to be untrustable.

And now there's an argument that the players are victims because the NFL didn't do more to protect them.

Please. Protect yourself like 99% of the other NFL players did.

[RashanGary]

This isn't a situation where the NFL wronged it's employees. 5 or 6 players thought they were above the warning. The other 1700 players showed personal responsibility by paying attention to their employer and using smart, safe training options that the NFL recommends.

This is a situation where you say good for almost all NFL players for being responsible. Good for the NFL for giving it's employees education for how to be responsible (whether people here realize it or not, warning against supplements is more helpful than warning against starcaps). It's a few players who screwed up. That's what this is about.

[pbmax]

How about the NFL's responsibility to be a responsible corporate citizen? Have they no ethical obligation to report the findings? Korey Stringer died after taking unregulated ephedra. How many people were put at risk taking an unregulated diuretic?

And try this on for size. The NFL tested Star Caps and did not suspend the first waves of players that tested positive for Bumetanide because teams were giving the players the go ahead to take them. Pat Williams covered this in his testimony and it has yet to be contradicted.

The next question I have is why the FDA didn't poke its head into this in 2007 when the University of Utah Toxicology Lab found Bumetanide in Star Caps?

[twoseven]

Korey Stringer died after taking unregulated ephedra. How many people were put at risk taking an unregulated diuretic?PB, i am going to have to politely disagree with this one in part. Ephedrine was regulated at and before the time Stringer abused ephedra and died as a result of complications aided by taking a drug that eleveates your heart rate. I know because i was taking stacks of it too for quite a few years before Stringer, many times more potent than what Stringer and a few others were on before they perished. i was taking about 300% times more in dosage than Korey 6 days a week, 3 times per day (with 600mg of caffiene and an aspirin in each single serving to boot) for years. It was at the time required that you would produce ID to even buy it, stating your age and where you lived. Not every state sold it, those that did has strict guidelines saying what ratio of it you could even get with other asthma related drugs that were mixed with it. Ephedra was the much weaker version, that may be up for debate as to how easy you could get it through many different OTCs like a Ripped Fuel at a GNC. But i do believe you had to show proof of age at least at a GNC to get it. i could be wrong.

Meth labs were already running and using the same ephedrine drug as their key component, the Feds were already cracking down hard on anything and everything containing the ingredients, making it harder and harder as the years went by to get this drug which for years was sold just about everywhere. Nobody could get it without stealing it or buying it illegally.

Korey Stringer died because he was severely overweight, overworking himself on a desert hot day, dehydrating himself, already a heart condition risk...and then added ephedrine to his system which kicked his heart rate up another 20 beats per minute on top of the already high risk conditions he put on himself due to his way of life. That pitcher for the Baltimore Orioles did the same stupid things while taking a heart elevating drug and died as well. That dumbass was told to cut weight while training in FLA. He starved himself for days on end, ran miles and miles, dehydrated himself..and then took plenty of ECA (ephedrine, caffiene, and aspirin stacks) on top of this suicidal behavior which just added to the stupid things he was already doing and eventually cashed out because of it.

But lo and behold, after they died the nation focused on ephederine as the big cuplrit in the equation, pretty much ignoring the idiotic behavior they wre doing long before they pushed it too far.

Many, many people had been using epehdrine for years before these incidents took place, and knew full well what the drug posed for you by way of risk and reward. If you didn't know it took just 5 minutes on the interent to figure it all out becuase 100% of the info i am talking about was there for everyone to read. Regulations were already in place nationwide, yet death still occured because these people abused and missused a drug that is intended for asthma sufferers. They did it to lose weight faster, they did it to themselves. It is no one else's fault.

The Williams' are in the same grey area of fooling around with something to try and get results faster (because they weren't exercising properly to begin with), taking a substance that you can find out plenty about before putting it in your mouth. In the end it is still their adult responsibility if they are going to try and take short cuts to figure out the risks involved. Starcaps with a little research done online are proven to help reduce NO weight based on their clearly listed and fairly common ingredients. Whatever was in there that was NOT listed is to me a moot point because what was listed was proven to do absolutely nothing to help them with what they were looking for. Why they chose to take them then is a mystery.

[twoseven]

When Mark McGwire got busted with a bottle of Androstenedione in his locker, the first thing I thought was, 'that shit does little to nothing to begin with to aid in the things Mark was supposedly looking for'. it was a cheap and futile attempt to try and sneak the results that actual illegal Anabolics were going to give you. Andro did not do much of anything for you, anyone who was using it could attest to this, and there were plenty of us out there trying out this OTC 'supplement'. was he just using Andro to mask his actual use of (what we now know were) real Anabolics? back then i don't think anyone was putting forth this theory becuase too many people (that knew little about Andro's actual effectiveness) made the mistake of thinking Andro actually did work like an illegal anabolic, and many wanted to believe Mark was only doing Andro and not something else. but today now that we know the real Big Mac story it sure does make a lot more sense. the dirty little reality in the health and fitness world is that legal supplements and illegal and highly effective anabolic drugs are not that far apart in actual price. so, if you think you can get away with it you are better off injecting the real thing. you just need to beat the system somehow and not get caught.

[pbmax]

Korey Stringer died during training camp in 2001. Ephedra was re-regulated in 2004, with the court challenge ending in 2006.


Ephedra-containing dietary supplements have been linked to a high rate of serious side effects and a number of deaths, leading to concern from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, and the medical community.[5][6][7][8][9] However, initial efforts to test and regulate ephedra were defeated by lobbying and political pressure from the dietary supplement industry.[10][11] Ultimately, in response to accumulating evidence of adverse effects and deaths related to ephedra, the FDA banned the sale of ephedra-containing supplements on April 12, 2004.[12][13]

Following a legal challenge by an ephedra manufacturer, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit upheld the FDA's ban of ephedra in 2006.[14] The sale of ephedra-containing dietary supplements remains illegal in the United States due to evidence of adverse ephedra-related effects. Following the FDA's ban, the supplement industry has marketed "ephedrine-free" or "legal" ephedra products, in which the ephedra is replaced with other herbal stimulants such as bitter orange.[15]

Stringer was taking Ripped Fuel, which was available in its ephedra containing form in 2001 over the counter from GNC. Whether or not he needed to produce a license and sign for the purchase is unclear, but it was available and in unregulated form as every other supplement at the time.

Congress deregulated the industry through the Dietary Health Supplements and Education Act in 1994, which mandated that the FDA treat supplements such as ephedra as a food rather than a drug and not require approval before going to market.

Retail requirements to track purchases (collecting name and address with Proof of ID) of ephedra containing products (due to concerns about crystal meth) in 2005.

Stringer no doubt had underlying health issues (at a minimum, his weight), plus the occupational hazard of working out in football gear during a summer month when the heat on the field was over 90 degrees. But both his wife and his camp roommate knew he was taking Ripped Fuel in an attempt to lose weight. Ephedra was eventually re-regulated because of reports and studies linking the ingestion of ephedra during workouts and later heatstroke. Even Orrin Hatch, one of the sponsors of the DHSEA law, and lead opposition to the previous effort to regulate ephedra (along with Tom Harkin), thought the FDA should regulate the substance by 2004.

[twoseven]

Korey Stringer died during training camp in 2001. Ephedra was re-regulated in 2004, with the court challenge ending in 2006.


Ephedra-containing dietary supplements have been linked to a high rate of serious side effects and a number of deaths, leading to concern from the U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA), the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, and the medical community.[5][6][7][8][9] However, initial efforts to test and regulate ephedra were defeated by lobbying and political pressure from the dietary supplement industry.[10][11] Ultimately, in response to accumulating evidence of adverse effects and deaths related to ephedra, the FDA banned the sale of ephedra-containing supplements on April 12, 2004.[12][13]

Following a legal challenge by an ephedra manufacturer, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Tenth Circuit upheld the FDA's ban of ephedra in 2006.[14] The sale of ephedra-containing dietary supplements remains illegal in the United States due to evidence of adverse ephedra-related effects. Following the FDA's ban, the supplement industry has marketed "ephedrine-free" or "legal" ephedra products, in which the ephedra is replaced with other herbal stimulants such as bitter orange.[15]

Stringer was taking Ripped Fuel, which was available in its ephedra containing form in 2001 over the counter from GNC. Whether or not he needed to produce a license and sign for the purchase is unclear, but it was available and in unregulated form as every other supplement at the time.

Congress deregulated the industry through the Dietary Health Supplements and Education Act in 1994, which mandated that the FDA treat supplements such as ephedra as a food rather than a drug and not require approval before going to market.

Retail requirements to track purchases (collecting name and address with Proof of ID) of ephedra containing products (due to concerns about crystal meth) in 2005. Ephedr'A', yes. Ephedr'INE'?

i was having to put forth proof of ID from 1994-2003 (when i started and when i finally stopped taking it) for Ephedrine.

Bottom line is neither one's uses or effects and side effects was any kind of a mystery to anyone not living in a cave, full information as to what they did to you was out there the entire time. if you chose not to find this info out or ignore what was there for anyone to see it's your own fault. Taking either one without knowledge of what they were doing to you, regardless of what the FDA or the Govt may have decried, was Russian Roulette. anyone using it blindly will not get much sympathy from me, about as much as someone handling a loaded gun with no more care than if it was a cap gun. if we are going to point fingers at who is actually at fault in these cases, a line must be drawn somewhere when a grown adult is not held responsible for their own actions when using a for many years a 'known to be risky and or dangerous' drug or supplement (for people that had or were prone to heart conditions). does the government have to tell me it's dangerous first before i listen, even though hudreds or thousands out there who have been using it for years have already confirmed this for me by passing along this info before the govt takes a stand?

in 1990 i never even heard of Ephedrine or Ephedra. in 92' i read about it in many different books and journals, in 93' and 94' i exchanged tons of info with lifters and bodybuilders about it in person an online, read massive amounts about it online at the same time. it was then and only then that i decided to start taking it in 94'. i knew about what it was, how it worked, why it worked, what the side effects were, what the risks were, what it meant to be taking it everyday. i took very large amounts of it as the year swent on and was safe then entire time because of the research i did on my own before i took even one pill. i was informed and the government had nothing to do with it. why can we not expect the same care and due dilligence from these pro athletes? i guess i just wish more common sense was applied before all the legalities start popping up.