Bedard article on Finley (yikes)

[RashanGary]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/93864379.html

[RashanGary]

I'm a little surprised to see Jermichael had such a bizarre offseason.

Just reading this article, putting the timeline together in my head. . . I get the impression Finley got a little distracted this offseason, fired his agent and went with an enabler, then the Packers talked to him and got him back on track.


I'm a little worried about Finley right now. He sounds like a bit of a liar and a shady character.

So F-in talented though. I really hope he finds a way to keep it together.

[Tony Oday]

I'm a little surprised to see Jermichael had such a bizarre offseason.

Just reading this article, putting the timeline together in my head. . . I get the impression Finley got a little distracted this offseason, fired his agent and went with an enabler, then the Packers talked to him and got him back on track.


I'm a little worried about Finley right now. He sounds like a bit of a liar and a shady character.

So F-in talented though. I really hope he finds a way to keep it together.

I read it is he was being an idiot, got the wake up call, got his head on straight and now is ready to be a Packer Person

[Lurker64]

He was a 23 year old kid, being an idiot. The thing to notice is not that he was an idiot at 23 (who among us wasn't? I was in graduate school... and still an idiot), but that he's realized that he was an idiot (faster than I probably did) and took steps to correct this matter.

The fact that he was candid and conciliatory at all about this with the media is really rather remarkable for a player his age.

[Joemailman]

What makes me a little nervous is that he seems to be a guy who goes through periods where he won't listen to people who tell him what he needs to hear, only what he wants to here. Hopefully, he's growing out of it. The offseason can be a dangerous time for these young guys. Just ask Johnny Jolly. Too much free time, and too many shady characters who want to attach themselves to someone with the potential to make tons of money.

[RashanGary]

It's weird, the lying, followed by contrite. . . . It just doesn't make sense. Usually liars are too dishonest, to themselves even, to come out of it.

The fact that the Packers got their Head Coach, VP of Football operations and chief contract negotiator and General Manager in one room with Finley to talk about his future says a lot.


I don't know if they came right out and said it, but Finley is the type of unique talent I think the Packers would love to pay fairly and pay early. And Finley, with the young family, is the type of guy who could really benefit his young family if he got paid early and fairly.

If they're sketched out about his character, again, I'm not sure if they said this directly, but they will have tags they can use for several years. He'll get the Albert Hayensworth treatment of the uber talented but sketchy character.



I'm so excited about Finley. We've all seen the circus catches he makes and makes them look easy. He's nearly impossible to defend with one guy. Jennings obviously gives more of a vertical threat, but Finley's size, his down right amazing hands, his ability to track the ball and use his body to get in position. . . He's a unique talent, maybe the most unique Packer talent I've seen since Reggie White or a young Brett Favre. Like the article said, there is a chance he's the #1 TE in the whole NFL and he's 23 years old. He has NFL HOF potential. You can see that already.

That pow wow they had with the top people in the Packer organization. . .You know they think they have something special. It sounds like he might have gotten some humility. He is great, but if he realizes the true greats do it the right way, he's going have an amazing career and be a legendary Packer.

[Tarlam!]

Good points, Joe.

JH, what I am encouraged about is that Finley sat the Packers brass down and talked to them. Owned up to stuff they may not have even known about. Apologized and promised to be professional going forward. It wasn't the Packers that sat Finley down. It was the other way around, and over a period of weeks, if one may believe the article.

[RashanGary]

Good points, Joe.

JH, what I am encouraged about is that Finley sat the Packers brass down and talked to them. Owned up to stuff they may not have even known about. Apologized and promised to be professional going forward. It wasn't the Packers that sat Finley down. It was the other way around, and over a period of weeks, if one may believe the article.


I'm hopeful. This has a chance to work out really well.

Just the instablity though, there is a part of me that worries that this will pop back up and be a nightmare.

[Tarlam!]

Just the instablity though, there is a part of me that worries that this will pop back up and be a nightmare.

OK, but go back to Charles' first season in Green Bay. We're talking about a multi Pro Bowl participant coming off a couple of injury riddled/ruined years that has only one team bidding for his services.

Chuck HATED the idea of playing in GB. He avoided ALL voluntary stuff and was only gonna punch his timecard and get out.

By his own admission, the organisation blew him away with its class and professionalism. It occured to us all that M3 & TT had won over Chuck's passion by the following off season, because he was amongst the first into camp for things voluntary thereafter and is himself a huge fan of the city, the team and their followers. It's all on the Wiki page to read.

With role models like Charles Woodson, Al Harris and by recognizing the rewards given to the diligent players he named in his quoate, Finley has turned the maturity corner IMO.

Further, when we mention the Packer players that have had a run in with the law or are guilty of misconduct, the list is pretty short. Barnett in a bar room squabble, Jolly with a strong brew and the 3rd TE breaking his shoulder prolly doin' doughnuts in front of his house.

The ambient environment of Green Bay seems to travel into off season domociles pretty well for most Packer players.

I think Finley will be fine with his work ethic. And the new guy Quarter Horse has similar measurables and is reportedly an excellent blocker coming out. That'll keep Finley looking over his shoulder.

[RashanGary]

It could work out. I'm not arguing that. He could be a great Packer.


If Finley shows up this year, then has a good, stable offseason next year, I could see the Packers giving him a 3 or 4 year extension sometime around the start of training camp next year.

[pbmax]

The only good thing in that story, if true, is that he realized he was doing himself no good in Austin and needed to change his agent. If those two things are true, then he stands a good chance of realizing his potential.

[green_bowl_packer]

This kind of shows what an "air tight" organization the Packers are information wise, if GB press knows about this stuff they would have buried the kid. Did the Pack learn how to do this from Ari Fleischer or the Vatican?

Refreshing to see Finley showing the accountability and responsibility that McCarthy always talks about, whatever his motives he's put him self out there to publicly to walk his talk. Seems though he still had a lost off season, which would explain his boxing training regimen, he had nothing better to do - maybe it will help; who knows.

I wonder if his awakening wasn't closer to the end of April when Quarles was drafted. Competition is a beautiful thing. He's pretty much telling Packer fans that he's the typical “a tell you what you want to hear kind of guy”, we should be used to that by now. What he does on the field is really all that matters, especially if he can replicate his last nine games of 09 over 16+ games in 2010.

This seems to be kind of a "OK starting now . . ." sort of reset on his immature stuff to date and if putting it out there publicly is his personal check - go for it, more power to him.

[Scott Campbell]

None of this should be much of a surprise. Whenever you hear comments about "immaturity", there are usually these kinds of things going on behind the scenes. And we've been hearing comments about Finley's immaturity since he got drafted. At least he appears to have an appreciation for the people around him who are not enablers. Some guys grow up, and some just grow worse. Time will tell.

Nice job Bedard.

[RashanGary]

Agreed, SC. Nice job by Bedard here. He gave us a bunch of information about Finley that we didn't already know. None of it felt contrived, fabricated or stretched to make a story. It was just straight forward information.

[RashanGary]

And this is a part of McCarthy I like. He's developing a little history here being able to handle difficult but talented players. He seems to have a good, healthy rapport with these players where he can get through to them without alienating them.

[Deputy Nutz]

The question is, how many wake up calls does this kid need? He said he had one after his rookie year, when he was calling out his QB in front of reporters, and been a total jackass. Got a wake up call that lasted all of two months, then he has a tremendous season, and goes punk in the off-season, another wake up call, and everything is good again.

I think this kid is stuck in a really crappy cycle, and hopefully for the Packers they can get this kid straightened out, but I have a hard time thinking that he is ever really going to turn the corner. Talks a good game, but it is hard to break a kid that carries around such a large sense of intitlement.

[Cleft Crusty]

The article is just an interview with Finley, written to give the perspective of the contrite recovering malcontent. Since there are no recent quotes from any of the other principle players in the story - save the returning agent - the story is completely based on the words of Finley. A good reporter would have tried to follow up with coaches, GMs, administration, players, etc. to determine whether Finley's story represents a true change he is experiencing, whether it is player-driven propaganda, or just wishful thinking. Not a high point for Mr. Bedard. Impossible to tell from this article where exactly Finley's head is at, except perhaps that his body seems to be back where it's supposed to be.

[gbgary]

well...it all sounds good. he says he "all about the truth", we'll see. i think he was the most improved Packer last year. here's to having an even better season this year... :glug:

[pbmax]

The article is just an interview with Finley, written to give the perspective of the contrite recovering malcontent. Since there are no recent quotes from any of the other principle players in the story - save the returning agent - the story is completely based on the words of Finley. A good reporter would have tried to follow up with coaches, GMs, administration, players, etc. to determine whether Finley's story represents a true change he is experiencing, whether it is player-driven propaganda, or just wishful thinking. Not a high point for Mr. Bedard. Impossible to tell from this article where exactly Finley's head is at, except perhaps that his body seems to be back where it's supposed to be.
I agree. There is no corroboration. But the one thing I wish he would have delved into was the condition of Finley's knee. Why isn't it fully rehabbed yet and why is he leaving OTAs instead of getting treatment in GB?

[Lurker64]

According to Bedard, this is what didn't make it into the article: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/93893409.html

[pbmax]

According to Bedard, this is what didn't make it into the article: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/93893409.html
Thanks for the link Lurker. I am not sure how difficult it would have been to work "lingering weakness though no structural damage" into his article when saying its up in the air how much training vs. rehab he does in the article. But I am not a professional rabble rouser. Sounds like Greg was getting a lot of email like this:

"WHAT THE F*&! IS WRONG WITH HIS KNEE!!!!! WHY HAVEN'T YOU BEEN WRITING ABOUT THAT INSTEAD OF BULAGA'S HOME RUNS!

[Lurker64]

According to Bedard, this is what didn't make it into the article: http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/93893409.html
Thanks for the link Lurker. I am not sure how difficult it would have been to work "lingering weakness though no structural damage" into his article when saying its up in the air how much training vs. rehab he does in the article. But I am not a professional rabble rouser. Sounds like Greg was getting a lot of email like this:

"WHAT THE F*&! IS WRONG WITH HIS KNEE!!!!! WHY HAVEN'T YOU BEEN WRITING ABOUT THAT INSTEAD OF BULAGA'S HOME RUNS!

Well, I think when you read these articles mostly online (as many do), you start to lose sight of the fact that articles like this are intended to end up in actual physical newspapers where things like space are at a premium. Bedard probably had all of those things initially in the article, but cut them for space since he's not allowed as many column inches as he damn well pleases. You can always put the excess in the blog, after all.

[RashanGary]

I think they have that piece of medical equipment that can measure weak spots on a players body. Finley just got in, probably got his physical, including the strength measurement on that machine. Because Finley probably babied that knee for a while, he probably has a little lingering weakness in those areas. It sounds like the knee is fine, but he's still getting strength back to the surrounding areas. Just working out and going through camp not babying it, I'm sure it will be fine.

I'm hoping he ends up in Fitz' camp. That would be a great place for a guy like Finley.

[Deputy Nutz]

I think they have that piece of medical equipment that can measure weak spots on a players body. Finley just got in, probably got his physical, including the strength measurement on that machine. Because Finley probably babied that knee for a while, he probably has a little lingering weakness in those areas. It sounds like the knee is fine, but he's still getting strength back to the surrounding areas. Just working out and going through camp not babying it, I'm sure it will be fine.

I'm hoping he ends up in Fitz' camp. That would be a great place for a guy like Finley.

Lots of positve hard working players there. Some really good mature football players that hopefully can influence this fella in the right direction

[Guiness]

Don't know what to make of this article, ya, it scares me a bit. I hope he listens to a good agent and behaves himself, contract-wise. I'd hate for him to have another decent season, and decide, 'a la JWalk' that he needs his money early.

The VY thing in the blog is weird. When his agent has no clue, he takes off to Austin, practices with the guy, then bad-mouths him? Odd.

[bobblehead]

Don't know what to make of this article, ya, it scares me a bit. I hope he listens to a good agent and behaves himself, contract-wise. I'd hate for him to have another decent season, and decide, 'a la JWalk' that he needs his money early.

The VY thing in the blog is weird. When his agent has no clue, he takes off to Austin, practices with the guy, then bad-mouths him? Odd.

My guess is that he and VY were boys in college, but now VY has all the money and is batshit crazy. Finley probably went down to see him thinking they were boys still, but VY was luke warm towards him. I see this shit all the time when guys get famous. I knew a guy who was pretty tight with Jeter years ago and now he complains that its work to get Jeter to return a text much less a call. If finley is smart he will move on and make his own mark and stick with those that are real friends.

[Guiness]

My guess is that he and VY were boys in college, but now VY has all the money and is batshit crazy. Finley probably went down to see him thinking they were boys still, but VY was luke warm towards him. I see this shit all the time when guys get famous. I knew a guy who was pretty tight with Jeter years ago and now he complains that its work to get Jeter to return a text much less a call. If finley is smart he will move on and make his own mark and stick with those that are real friends.

That would be something if a college teamate who went on play in the show, and is thought to be becoming one of the top TE's in the league doesn't cut it to hang with! Pretty rarefied air - who does he hang with, only guys that won ROY?

[DonHutson]

So we should get a few great years out of him. After that, if he grows up we can resign him. If he doesn't, we'll let someone else make the mistake.

Either way, not bad for a 3rd round investment. That's where you can and should start taking risks on headcases like this.

[boiga]

There is something else going on here regarding Major Adams. Vince Young dropped him a little after Finley for no obvious reason to move to a more recognized firm:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/11/caa-replaces-shawne-merriman-with-vince-young/

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/14/young-says-agent-change-wasnt-about-immediate-contract/

I'm really curious which of the two dropped Adams first and what the hell this guy could have done to piss off both of his only nfl clients. Something very bad happened while the three of them were hanging out in Austin.


The other hero in the J-mike story is his wife. I've got to respect a woman who would drop a man with a giant contract coming in a year or two because he's making a giant self-destructive ass out of himself.

[bobblehead]

My guess is that he and VY were boys in college, but now VY has all the money and is batshit crazy. Finley probably went down to see him thinking they were boys still, but VY was luke warm towards him. I see this shit all the time when guys get famous. I knew a guy who was pretty tight with Jeter years ago and now he complains that its work to get Jeter to return a text much less a call. If finley is smart he will move on and make his own mark and stick with those that are real friends.

That would be something if a college teamate who went on play in the show, and is thought to be becoming one of the top TE's in the league doesn't cut it to hang with! Pretty rarefied air - who does he hang with, only guys that won ROY?

He hangs with whoever is closest to him at the moment....that is my point, Vince is a dolt who forgets his friends when they are not in sight. Babies develope the ability to realize that the things behind them are still there even when they can't see them....VY never did apparently.

[Packers4Ever]

I'm a little surprised to see Jermichael had such a bizarre offseason.

Just reading this article, putting the timeline together in my head. . . I get the impression Finley got a little distracted this offseason, fired his agent and went with an enabler, then the Packers talked to him and got him back on track.


I'm a little worried about Finley right now. He sounds like a bit of a liar and a shady character.

So F-in talented though. I really hope he finds a way to keep it together.



I don't come away with that feeling at all, JH, true when he was new here but I honestly believe the kid is on the level. He's had time to observe the coaches, the rest of his team and do a lot of thinking. I think he wants to be a superstar and being that loaded with talent, he may very well be. I hope we're not disappointed.

[SkinBasket]

I'm a little worried about Finley right now. He sounds like a bit of a liar and a shady character.

Me too. It's well known that liars and shady characters cannot catch footballs.

[RashanGary]

I'm a little worried about Finley right now. He sounds like a bit of a liar and a shady character.

Me too. It's well known that liars and shady characters cannot catch footballs.

Are you suggesting talent is the only meaningful attribute in a professional football player as it relates to the ultimate product on the field?

[Bretsky]

Not much of a surprise; coming out of college it was widely reported he had maturity issues. .............just another way to say character concerns.

I'm still glad TT rolled the dice on this guy; it's picks like this that make stars if they straighten their head out

[RashanGary]

Rodgers
Collins
Matthews
Jennings
Finley


Let's face it, Thompson has found us playmakers! These guys are going to be here for many years and with Thompson's track record, he's just going to keep adding more. . . . These guys can all have Packer HOF if not NFL HOF careers.

I wouldn't be surprised if this turns into a dynasty.

[pbmax]

There is something else going on here regarding Major Adams. Vince Young dropped him a little after Finley for no obvious reason to move to a more recognized firm:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/11/caa-replaces-shawne-merriman-with-vince-young/

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/05/14/young-says-agent-change-wasnt-about-immediate-contract/

I'm really curious which of the two dropped Adams first and what the hell this guy could have done to piss off both of his only nfl clients. Something very bad happened while the three of them were hanging out in Austin.


The other hero in the J-mike story is his wife. I've got to respect a woman who would drop a man with a giant contract coming in a year or two because he's making a giant self-destructive ass out of himself.
Finley dropped him first if the Bedard article has it right. Major Adams conned his way into Vince Young's agent team when Young was drafted. They originally tired to pick Bus Cook, if memory serves, but I don't think he wanted to share - or the relationship did not last long.

[Guiness]

Finley dropped him first if the Bedard article has it right. Major Adams conned his way into Vince Young's agent team when Young was drafted. They originally tired to pick Bus Cook, if memory serves, but I don't think he wanted to share - or the relationship did not last long.

Who's 'they'? VY?

My understanding is that Major Adams was a friend of the Young family - dating back, not just from his college days.

Certainly he was not a great choice for an agent, but he worked an ok rookie deal for Young - not tough given the slotting system, but he didn't get snowed like say, Ricki Williams did. Seems he fell down in guiding his client, however, I would think that's more on VY himself, and the Titans.

[DonHutson]

I'm a little worried about Finley right now. He sounds like a bit of a liar and a shady character.

Me too. It's well known that liars and shady characters cannot catch footballs.

Some headcases can catch footballs. Typically for team after team after team...

[mission]

I'm a little worried about Finley right now. He sounds like a bit of a liar and a shady character.

Me too. It's well known that liars and shady characters cannot catch footballs.

Some headcases can catch footballs. Typically for team after team after team...

Guys like Holmes, Burress, Irvin, etc helped win Super Bowls. I'd take losing Finley later for a Super Bowl win with Rodgers. (but id rather keep him AND the trophy) :D

[Tarlam!]

Rodgers tweeted Finley after the Quarless pick. From that tweet, I gather Rodgers and Finley are pretty tight; I wouldn't be surprized if Rodgers has a lot of influence in the locker room. He certainly does at the LOS. Like, to whom the ball is thrown.

[Smidgeon]

Interesting tidbit from Jason Wilde:

"Tight ends coach Ben McAdoo said Finley’s statement that he missed curfew the night before the playoff game was not accurate, but he refused to elaborate." (http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/includes/news_items/40/news_items_more.php?id=3544&section_id=40)

Throws other light onto the Finley story. So, how much of the story is believable now, considering it was a one-sided story?

[MichiganPackerFan]

Nice to see you back Smidgeon! enjoy our offseason doldrums.

[RashanGary]

I get the impression that Finley is going to be a headache some day. Right now, this year, he hasn't proven to be elite "yet". He's still working toward his goal. I think this year will be a great one for him. After this year, I can see the headaches begin. I think he has a little TO in him. He's a great player, but he has potential to blow up your lockerroom with drama if things don't go his way. He's the guy who blamed AR for his mistakes in his rookie year. Once he becomes a star, I can see that type of thing getting even worse.

[hoosier]

I get the impression that Finley is going to be a headache some day. Right now, this year, he hasn't proven to be elite "yet". He's still working toward his goal. I think this year will be a great one for him. After this year, I can see the headaches begin. I think he has a little TO in him. He's a great player, but he has potential to blow up your lockerroom with drama if things don't go his way. He's the guy who blamed AR for his mistakes in his rookie year. Once he becomes a star, I can see that type of thing getting even worse.

The parallel with TO seems kind of weak to me. I don't think Owens ever showed the kind of contrition that we saw in the interview with JF published in the JSO this week. Yes, talk is cheap and Finley will have to back it up with action. And even if he does that this year many people will still be waiting for the next screw up. It would not surprise me at all if Finley turns out to be a player who talks a good game but cannot overcome his own immaturity. But based on what he said to Bedard he clearly wants to be liked and he knows what is expected of him. I don't at all foresee him transforming into the egotistical monster that is TO.

[bobblehead]

I get the impression that Finley is going to be a headache some day. Right now, this year, he hasn't proven to be elite "yet". He's still working toward his goal. I think this year will be a great one for him. After this year, I can see the headaches begin. I think he has a little TO in him. He's a great player, but he has potential to blow up your lockerroom with drama if things don't go his way. He's the guy who blamed AR for his mistakes in his rookie year. Once he becomes a star, I can see that type of thing getting even worse.

The parallel with TO seems kind of weak to me. I don't think Owens ever showed the kind of contrition that we saw in the interview with JF published in the JSO this week. Yes, talk is cheap and Finley will have to back it up with action. And even if he does that this year many people will still be waiting for the next screw up. It would not surprise me at all if Finley turns out to be a player who talks a good game but cannot overcome his own immaturity. But based on what he said to Bedard he clearly wants to be liked and he knows what is expected of him. I don't at all foresee him transforming into the egotistical monster that is TO.

Plus, say whatever about TO, but he is known as the hardest worker on the field.

Right now JF is kinda the ANTI TO. He says all the right things, but does the wrong things. TO does all the right things, but says the dumbest shit you ever want to hear. I worry that Finley has simply figured out what people want to hear and is saying it while harboring feelings that he is smarter/better than everyone and can do what he wants.

[Tarlam!]

Us Packer fans have got a pretty good thing going if the only character concerns we have concern one tattooed rookie TE and whether or not the starting TE is genuinely remorseful or not.

BTW, What is McAdoo supposed to tell the press? He didn't deny that Finley broke curfew. He said it wasn't accurate, which could mean there was more or less to the incident.

I'm sure Finley's agent saw what TT did with Walker and what happened to Walker post-Green Bay. I'm equally certain the chemistry is where it needs to be to keep even an All World TE humble.

I don't see the looming dark clouds on the horizon others might be seeing... :huh:

[sharpe1027]

Plus, say whatever about TO, but he is known as the hardest worker on the field.

Right now JF is kinda the ANTI TO. He says all the right things, but does the wrong things. TO does all the right things, but says the dumbest shit you ever want to hear. I worry that Finley has simply figured out what people want to hear and is saying it while harboring feelings that he is smarter/better than everyone and can do what he wants.

I'm not so sure you can make such a clear distinction between what TO "says" and what he "does." What you say is part of what you do. TO's antics disrupted his teams so much that he was deemed expendable (multiple times) even when he was putting up big numbers and not dropping passes. I can't say that I will ever consider TO to have done the "right things."

[RashanGary]

Plus, say whatever about TO, but he is known as the hardest worker on the field.

Right now JF is kinda the ANTI TO. He says all the right things, but does the wrong things. TO does all the right things, but says the dumbest shit you ever want to hear. I worry that Finley has simply figured out what people want to hear and is saying it while harboring feelings that he is smarter/better than everyone and can do what he wants.

Yep, that's exactly what I think. He's saying some of the right things, but I listened to his lockerroom interview. I get a strong sense that he thinks he's above it all. He strikes me as very, very cocky, almost arrogant.

Quarless mgiht never be the player Finley is, but I get the impression he's sincere. That's jsut me though.

[Tarlam!]

He's saying some of the right things, but I listened to his lockerroom interview. I get a strong sense that he thinks he's above it all. He strikes me as very, very cocky, almost arrogant.

That's jsut me though.

Wow, I can't believe what a different vibe I get than you, watching that interview. Maybe I was expecting the worst, because I read your take before I watched it.

It's clear to me that his diction hasn't been developed as a result of his college education nor has his grammar.

But his interview reminds more of a Nick Collins interview. We all know Nick aint the brightest bulb in the chandelier, but he's real football smart and is humble enough.

I'll be interested to see what other posters take from that interview...

[retailguy]

I think he has a little TO in him.




Right now JF is kinda the ANTI TO.



Yep, that's exactly what I think.

I am so confused. Please help. :P

[bobblehead]

Plus, say whatever about TO, but he is known as the hardest worker on the field.

Right now JF is kinda the ANTI TO. He says all the right things, but does the wrong things. TO does all the right things, but says the dumbest shit you ever want to hear. I worry that Finley has simply figured out what people want to hear and is saying it while harboring feelings that he is smarter/better than everyone and can do what he wants.

I'm not so sure you can make such a clear distinction between what TO "says" and what he "does." What you say is part of what you do. TO's antics disrupted his teams so much that he was deemed expendable (multiple times) even when he was putting up big numbers and not dropping passes. I can't say that I will ever consider TO to have done the "right things."

TO is a cancer, what he says is bad enough. I guess I was drawing a distinction that JF is saying all the right things, but has yet to match the TO work ethic that isn't denied even by his harshest critics (which I am one of).

[RashanGary]

I agree that Finley's whole act might be complete deception. He said he "used to" just tell people what they wanted to hear. Just hearing that, the type of person who goes around just lying. . . I've been around a few liars and in my experience, you don't fix a liar. They cannot help themselves.

Finley, even in acknowledging his lies, may be just being himself, a liar and one day he'll say, "in 2010, I was just telling eople what they want to hear" and right after that admission, he might tell yet another lie to get people to buy into him at that moment.


Just my opinion, I've been around liars are shady characters and I've never seen one change his stripes. Collins might be equally ghetto to Finley, but he doesn't strike me as equally arrogant or equally dishonest.

Just my impression. I hope I'm wrong.

But for now, go Finley. In this offense, with this QB, with these weapons around him, he's going to be unstoppable!!

[Joemailman]

Interesting tidbit from Jason Wilde:

"Tight ends coach Ben McAdoo said Finley’s statement that he missed curfew the night before the playoff game was not accurate, but he refused to elaborate." (http://www.espnmilwaukee.com/includes/news_items/40/news_items_more.php?id=3544&section_id=40)

Throws other light onto the Finley story. So, how much of the story is believable now, considering it was a one-sided story?

Player claims he misses curfew the night before a playoff game, and the coach says he didn't? I miss Max and Vince.

[Guiness]

I agree that Finley's whole act might be complete deception. He said he "used to" just tell people what they wanted to hear. Just hearing that, the type of person who goes around just lying. . . I've been around a few liars and in my experience, you don't fix a liar. They cannot help themselves.

Finley, even in acknowledging his lies, may be just being himself, a liar and one day he'll say, "in 2010, I was just telling eople what they want to hear" and right after that admission, he might tell yet another lie to get people to buy into him at that moment.


Just my opinion, I've been around liars are shady characters and I've never seen one change his stripes. Collins might be equally ghetto to Finley, but he doesn't strike me as equally arrogant or equally dishonest.

Just my impression. I hope I'm wrong.

But for now, go Finley. In this offense, with this QB, with these weapons around him, he's going to be unstoppable!!

You're right JH, and I've known some people who lied just by rote - not even to get themselves out of trouble, or to get something they want, they just lie because they can. Either they get a rise out of deceiving ppl, or it makes them look cool, etc.

So, did Finley say he was out past curfew because he wanted to look like a rebel?

[sharpe1027]

TO is a cancer, what he says is bad enough. I guess I was drawing a distinction that JF is saying all the right things, but has yet to match the TO work ethic that isn't denied even by his harshest critics (which I am one of).

I don't know anything about J. Finley's workouts, but he's not yet anywhere near TO's level for causing problems. That being said, TO wasn't a problem right away either... :shock:

[Upnorth]

TO is a cancer, what he says is bad enough. I guess I was drawing a distinction that JF is saying all the right things, but has yet to match the TO work ethic that isn't denied even by his harshest critics (which I am one of).

I don't know anything about J. Finley's workouts, but he's not yet anywhere near TO's level for causing problems. That being said, TO wasn't a problem right away either... :shock:

If Finley does turn out to be like TO, cutting him won't hurt as much since he is not our lead receiving threat. Don't get me wrong, he is a great bonus to the passing game, but with Driver and Jennings around a good TE can look great.
Also being stupid at 22 is different that at 27.

[sharpe1027]

If Finley does turn out to be like TO, cutting him won't hurt as much since he is not our lead receiving threat. Don't get me wrong, he is a great bonus to the passing game, but with Driver and Jennings around a good TE can look great.
Also being stupid at 22 is different that at 27.

He may not be the lead threat yet, but he may be soon.

Also, as a TE you can't compare the number of catches directly to that of a WR. Packages, routes, blocking assignments, ect. generally mean that a TE and a WR are not statistically equivalent.

Hopefully, your right about his age and him being able to grow up and change. I disagree with blanket statements that people can't change. They can and do, often in response to a significant event or strong outside influences.

[Upnorth]

If Finley does turn out to be like TO, cutting him won't hurt as much since he is not our lead receiving threat. Don't get me wrong, he is a great bonus to the passing game, but with Driver and Jennings around a good TE can look great.
Also being stupid at 22 is different that at 27.

He may not be the lead threat yet, but he may be soon.

Also, as a TE you can't compare the number of catches directly to that of a WR. Packages, routes, blocking assignments, ect. generally mean that a TE and a WR are not statistically equivalent.

Hopefully, your right about his age and him being able to grow up and change. I disagree with blanket statements that people can't change. They can and do, often in response to a significant event or strong outside influences.

I agree that TE and WR's are apples and oranges, but they do have an impact on each other. Take away Driver and Jennings and Finley probably does not shine the way he is. Take away Finley and the change won't be as dramatic to Driver and Jennings.

How is Finley at blocking? From what I have seen he is a bit below average, but I have not spent much time looking at his blocking. Anyone have anything on it?

[Fritz]

I think they have that piece of medical equipment that can measure weak spots on a players body. Finley just got in, probably got his physical, including the strength measurement on that machine. Because Finley probably babied that knee for a while, he probably has a little lingering weakness in those areas. It sounds like the knee is fine, but he's still getting strength back to the surrounding areas. Just working out and going through camp not babying it, I'm sure it will be fine.

I'm hoping he ends up in Fitz' camp. That would be a great place for a guy like Finley.

Packer Doctor: "I'm sorry, Mr. Finley, but the machine has found that your penis is weak. Very weak. You have the penis of a six year old girl."

[sharpe1027]

Looks like Jolly's the one we should all be concerned with:

Questionable behavior gets Jolly more bond restrictions

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/94590334.html

[RashanGary]

Well, there we go. Jolly will not be a Packer after this year unless it's for less than 2 mil per year.

A guy like Jolly has value but not a lot. He's a good player but a bad guy that can hurt yoru lockerroom and cannot be counted on because you will always be waiting for the next suspension.

If he's going to be with the Packers, it's going to be for a small, incentive based deal. More than likely, he'll get angry that he's not getting what he's worth and go somewhere else for less than hes worth, then blow up there.

Cletidus Hunt, literally. The question is, do we pay him the way Sherman paid Cedidus? My money is on, "no".

On a side note, I could see the Packers starting to look at a long term deal with Jenkins. I think Tramon will get a deal this offseason. I don't think Jenkins has as much of a chance as Tramon, but after this, his chances went way up.

[falco]

Wow. You really have to start questioning Jolly's future with the packers.

[falco]

In fact, this is the sort of BS that leads to suspensions from the commish. Once you have a track record like this, he's shown a willingness to suspend without a conviction.

[Tarlam!]

Breaks my heart to read this about the guy. He was more than just decent last season. He really stepped ut.

Now this.

I'm gaining a bit of personal experience these days as to why people behave irrationally. Why would a 6th rounder with a great future just screw up like this and risk millions of dollars and life long financial security?

The answer according to my shrink is a deep, hidden filial love. He described it as Taliban-like. Hidden, difficult to detect, impossible to assault with Stealth Bombers, like Freudian phsychiatry) etc, capable of sabotaging the most sensitive areas of your defense.

The more I learn about the way we humans tick, what drives us to do the things we do, the more I think the NFL should build a big clinic in the hills to treat people like Jolly, Pacman et al.

In fact, they should put the rookie class through 2-3 weeks of soul searching so these outbreaks become less frequent.

[vince]

Well, there we go. Jolly will not be a Packer after this year unless it's for less than 2 mil per year.

A guy like Jolly has value but not a lot. He's a good player but a bad guy that can hurt yoru lockerroom and cannot be counted on because you will always be waiting for the next suspension.

If he's going to be with the Packers, it's going to be for a small, incentive based deal. More than likely, he'll get angry that he's not getting what he's worth and go somewhere else for less than hes worth, then blow up there.

Cletidus Hunt, literally. The question is, do we pay him the way Sherman paid Cedidus? My money is on, "no".

On a side note, I could see the Packers starting to look at a long term deal with Jenkins. I think Tramon will get a deal this offseason. I don't think Jenkins has as much of a chance as Tramon, but after this, his chances went way up.
Jenkins will be 30 at the end of this year and someone please correct me if this is wrong, but he seems to wear down as the year progresses even in his 20's. If Wilson and Neal show the potential they seem to possess, there's a decent chance that neither of these guys will be re-upped.

I don't like the idea of sinking millions into a guy who has no discipline back at home or a 30 year-old who wears down and is likely to decline further.

[vince]

They're going to take a hair follicle for drug testing from Jolly. I'll be pleasantly surprised if he's clean, but that would be a good sign for him if he is. Then if he gets out of the charges in the end and comes back to produce, he could be right back in the good graces of Packer fans. But that looks like a big if at the moment.

[falco]

the more I think the NFL should build a big clinic in the hills to treat people like Jolly, Pacman et al.

What a contradiction to your views on drug addicts!

[Tarlam!]

the more I think the NFL should build a big clinic in the hills to treat people like Jolly, Pacman et al.

What a contradiction to your views on drug addicts!

Help me remember what my views are, Falco :oops:

[falco]

let's not rehab druggies. Let's give them their stuff till they die of natural causes. Let's not involve really really expensive therapies. Let's accet they are today's lepers, put them into the most comfortable environment they can be in on taxpayers' money and wait for them to expire.

[pbmax]

In fact, this is the sort of BS that leads to suspensions from the commish. Once you have a track record like this, he's shown a willingness to suspend without a conviction.
I don't think so in this case. The drug offense will fall under the Drug and Alcohol Policy and that does not give the commissioner the same authority as the Personal Conduct Policy does. His hands may be tied because of the nature of the offense. If he should commit a crime of a different nature while screwing this up, then Goodell might be able to act.

[falco]

In fact, this is the sort of BS that leads to suspensions from the commish. Once you have a track record like this, he's shown a willingness to suspend without a conviction.
I don't think so in this case. The drug offense will fall under the Drug and Alcohol Policy and that does not give the commissioner the same authority as the Personal Conduct Policy does. His hands may be tied because of the nature of the offense. If he should commit a crime of a different nature while screwing this up, then Goodell might be able to act.

I'm ignorant on this point. Does a conviction on drug charges fall under the same umbrella as a positive drug test? I would have assumed it fell under the PCP (no pun intended), especially if it is considered an "intent to deliver."

[pbmax]

In fact, this is the sort of BS that leads to suspensions from the commish. Once you have a track record like this, he's shown a willingness to suspend without a conviction.
I don't think so in this case. The drug offense will fall under the Drug and Alcohol Policy and that does not give the commissioner the same authority as the Personal Conduct Policy does. His hands may be tied because of the nature of the offense. If he should commit a crime of a different nature while screwing this up, then Goodell might be able to act.

I'm ignorant on this point. Does a conviction on drug charges fall under the same umbrella as a positive drug test? I would have assumed it fell under the PCP (no pun intended), especially if it is considered an "intent to deliver."
I am not iron-clad certain, but I am confident it falls under the Drug and Alcohol Policy. Now if he HAD sold it, or hit another car while on it or knocked off a convenience store to buy more, then you get to the Personal Conduct Policy.

[falco]

Thanks PB. I'll bow to your infinite wisdom on this one.

Jolly is lucky he had such a stellar year last year. Its probably the only thing saving his neck to this point.

[sharpe1027]

I don't think so in this case. The drug offense will fall under the Drug and Alcohol Policy and that does not give the commissioner the same authority as the Personal Conduct Policy does. His hands may be tied because of the nature of the offense. If he should commit a crime of a different nature while screwing this up, then Goodell might be able to act.

Wouldn't violating the terms of your bail fall under Personal Conduct?

[Tarlam!]

let's not rehab druggies. Let's give them their stuff till they die of natural causes. Let's not involve really really expensive therapies. Let's accet they are today's lepers, put them into the most comfortable environment they can be in on taxpayers' money and wait for them to expire.


Just goes to show you what a dickhead I can be. When did I write that? I'd like to look at that thread.

My point in this thread isn't about "druggies" per sé, but I can see how you'd make a logical connection. The difference to me is that druggies generally slide due to their socio-ecomic environment. I'm labelling the drug addicts that kill and mame, steal and rob "druggies".

Millionaire athletes often come from that environment, but they've been given the opportunity to relocate into the upper class.

[falco]

Just goes to show you what a dickhead I can be. When did I write that? I'd like to look at that thread.

For what it is worth, I apologize for bringing it up in this thread. It really was irrelevant and just a gut reaction move on my part. Certainly not taken in context.

[Smidgeon]

They're going to take a hair follicle for drug testing from Jolly. I'll be pleasantly surprised if he's clean, but that would be a good sign for him if he is. Then if he gets out of the charges in the end and comes back to produce, he could be right back in the good graces of Packer fans. But that looks like a big if at the moment.

Maybe this is an ignorant question, but aren't hair follicle tests kind of like a history of what's been in a body? They can test different parts of the hair to see what chemicals were in the body at the time of that hair growth. I don't know how precise it is, but it would be a better was of telling if Jolly really did violate the terms of his bail more than once.

[vince]

I think I read somewhere that a hair follicle test will hold evidence of drug usage for up to 90 days or so, but that's just from my memory.

[MJZiggy]

Depends on when his last haircut was.

[vince]

and how short he gets it cut.

[hoosier]

Breaks my heart to read this about the guy. He was more than just decent last season. He really stepped ut.

Now this.

I'm gaining a bit of personal experience these days as to why people behave irrationally. Why would a 6th rounder with a great future just screw up like this and risk millions of dollars and life long financial security?

The answer according to my shrink is a deep, hidden filial love. He described it as Taliban-like. Hidden, difficult to detect, impossible to assault with Stealth Bombers, like Freudian phsychiatry) etc, capable of sabotaging the most sensitive areas of your defense.

The more I learn about the way we humans tick, what drives us to do the things we do, the more I think the NFL should build a big clinic in the hills to treat people like Jolly, Pacman et al.

In fact, they should put the rookie class through 2-3 weeks of soul searching so these outbreaks become less frequent.

Johnny Jolly is screwing up because he is unable to come to terms with his love for his brother?

[Tarlam!]

Johnny Jolly is screwing up because he is unable to come to terms with his love for his brother?

That would be fraternal love, no?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/filial+love


filial love

noun

the love of a child for a parent

[pbmax]

I don't think so in this case. The drug offense will fall under the Drug and Alcohol Policy and that does not give the commissioner the same authority as the Personal Conduct Policy does. His hands may be tied because of the nature of the offense. If he should commit a crime of a different nature while screwing this up, then Goodell might be able to act.

Wouldn't violating the terms of your bail fall under Personal Conduct?
I don't think, strictly speaking, that this hearing found that. Behavior that is suggestive, the promise of more troubling photos, perhaps. But I did not read that the judge found him in violation of his bail/bond. I could be wrong, what I read did not address this specific point.

But we are in a very fuzzy area. Its possible that the troubling behavior over parole is not enough for a formal charge or revoking of bail, but might be enough for Goodell. I think, as long as the worst of it is the party flier (no evidence presented he attended) and assuming a clean follicle test, he may be OK. But he's very close to a lot more trouble.

[hoosier]

Johnny Jolly is screwing up because he is unable to come to terms with his love for his brother?

That would be fraternal love, no?

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/filial+love


filial love

noun

the love of a child for a parent


Yes, it would. Must have been brain fart. But I still find it puzzling to think of Jolly's legal problems in the context of his relation to his mommy. Hell, I have no desire to imagine his mother at all. I guess Freud has not yet made his way into the world of sports journalism.

[vince]

From the New York Times Fifth Down blog (http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/05/18/jermichael-finley-will-be-the-best-and-he-knows-it/#more-44271)


Jermichael Finley Will Be the Best, and He Knows It
By ANDY BENOIT

Jermichael Finley is going to be the best tight end in football.

Not eventually — now. This season. It seems so obvious that, while making this prediction, you almost feel as if you’re missing something. Why isn’t everyone predicting this?

The evidence was building last season, and the revelation came in the wild-card playoff shootout between the Packers and the Cardinals in January. Finley had six catches for a franchise-playoff-record 159 yards. Cardinals safety Adrian Wilson said of Finley, who was then 22 years old: “He’s very comparable to Antonio Gates. Hell of a player. He can do it all.”

It may sound ludicrous, but Finley is actually better than Gates – at least athletically. Finley, a third-round pick from Texas, is taller (at 6-5), longer, faster and more agile than the Chargers’ Gates, a six-time Pro Bowler. Like Gates, he has uncanny body control and ball-adjustment skills. In his last eight games last season, counting the playoff loss, he had 44 catches for 575 yards and 4 touchdowns.

Still, to say that a third-year pro with a reputation for immaturity and only 12 starts will be the best player at his position seems overzealous. When you get Finley on the phone, as I did recently, you immediately share your opinion, then say, “Am I smart or am I crazy?”

You’re half-hoping he says crazy. If he does, he’ll have to explain why. That will mean plenty of quotable phrases about working hard, aspiring to improve and overcoming challenges. More important, it will allow you to ride the fence. It will be the green light to write an article that projects Finley not as the best tight end in 2010, but rather as “potentially the best tight end.” It’s safer.

Problem is, Finley doesn’t bail you out.

“I think you’re a genius, to tell you the truth,” he said.

Well, what about the effect of that kind of hype? Does the expectation of being the best tight end in football add undue pressure?

“I don’t think it adds pressure whatsoever,” he said. Finley casually mentions that his speed creates mismatches against linebackers. He discusses the importance of his off-season regimen, which now includes boxing (a trend in the N.F.L.). He cites blocking as the element of his game needing the most improvement. He talks about a big strength, his hands. His tone isn’t boastful, brash – just confident.

Finley’s back story is not unlike those of other tight ends. He was a standout basketball player growing up. He entered Texas as a wide receiver. When he was moved to tight end, he had a few reservations about blocking. But coaches quickly asserted that, given his athleticism, the tight end position presented a special opportunity.

“With Jermichael, we did a lot of different things,” said Bruce Chambers, the Longhorns’ tight ends coach, in a recent phone interview. “We flexed him out – a lot like they’re doing with him now in Green Bay. He spent a lot of time in the wide receiver two-point stance. The only difference was, instead of running his routes on corners, he ran his routes on linebackers and safeties. He became very special when he moved inside. Best thing that ever happened to him, in my opinion.”

The only potholes on Finley’s path have been off the field. His immaturity has been well documented – most recently in an article by The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel’s Greg Bedard, in which Finley spoke about drama with agents, tardiness for meetings, broken curfews (including one the night before the playoff loss in Arizona) and youthful cockiness.

To the Packers’ relief, those problems seem to be easing. Living in Green Bay with a wife and 2-year-old son has a way of shepherding a man out of the fast lane. As Finley said, “If you get in trouble, it’s because you’re looking for it.”

As long as he doesn’t look, Jermichael Finley will be the N.F.L.’s best tight end in 2010.