"WOODSON PRAISES BURNETT

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/96920924.html

From what I've seen early out of him, he's not making mistakes, or if he is making mistakes, it's no more than anybody else is making. He's got a lot of experience back there with him, with Nick, myself and Tramon. So if he is to play in there, we'll carry him as long as we can until he's up to speed but, (shoot), he's good. He looks good to me, you know. Now it's just a matter of experience getting into a game and getting a feel of it and playing at this level



Woody also in shape taking Boxing Classes

If you ask me three reasons the Packers D might improve, the idea of Burnett being an upgrade from Bigby would be up there

[RashanGary]

I know you, skin and others hate Bigby, but I think he's pretty good. I don't think a rookie will beat him out.

Now, if Bigby misses more than a week or two of TC, he'll be replaced. Hopefully he's smart enough not to do that. He'll hurt himself just as bad as he hurts the Packers if not worse.

[Bretsky]

I think Bigby is the weakest starter on defense

[RashanGary]

Woodson looked about how he looks normally to me. Hard to tell.


A couple guys I thought stood out as having positive changes to their physique; B Jones (last year he looked thin and boyish. This year, he looks like a man) Tramon (looks a little more ripped, but very lean still), Jenkins (looks very ripped), Raji (I love how this guy carries his weight, squatty as hell, huge, you can see more muscle on him than last year) and Sitton (Bigger, more ripped, more mature). I believe Woodson when he says he's in good shape though.

Here's a list of guys I like to make us better this year

Tauscher (a year removed from the knee injury)
B. Jones (Obviously stronger and it's good common sense to expect a 2nd year player to know what he's doing more than he did as a rookie.)
Sitton (looks like a monster and Rodgers said he had a great offseason)
Nelson (I'm buying the OTA/mini camp hype. Guy is making plays)
J. Jones (I still think he's a hell of a player, hasn't had enough opportunities)
Finley (everyones favorite pick to break out and for good reason, guy is unique)
Rodgers (I know he had a good year last year, but he really didn't become great until the last 7 or 8 games. Look for a full season of even greater greatness and a lot of wins)
Tramon Williams (hell of a player, just keeps getting better)
Jason Spitz, TJ Lang and Bryan Bulaga (more ready to play talent backing up our OL)
Defenses 2nd year (Collins, Tramon, Bigby, Matthews, Jones, Barnett, Hawk, Chillar all are more familiar with the defense and should play more assignment sure than a year ago)
Flynn (I see what seems to be a strong upward trend from this guy. Can't wait to see him in the preseason. We might need him to win a game or two)


Here are guys I'm hoping step up, but am not as excited for as the list I just made:

Brandon Underwood, Al Harris (horrible injury), Patrick Lee and Josh Bell (hopefully one or two of these guys is a player this year).

Burnett (rookie, but odds are he'll be playing at one point or another and hopefully he's solid)

Neal, Wilson, Jolly, Harrell (I'm hoping at least 2 of these guys are legit, impact depth this year)

Brandon Jackson, James Starks (who knows about Starks. Jackson jsut hasn't done much yet, but we don't have a good backup to Ryan Grant unless one of these guys steps up)



The bottom line, there is a ton of youth on this team. Some of it is showing signs of getting ready to explode on the scene, others haven't yet, but you never know who the next Aaron Kampman, Donald Driver, Marco Rivera or Mike Wahle might be, really turning it on in their 3rd, 4th or 5th seasons. It happens.

I see a lot of reason to expect big things from this team. They were good last year, not many players are dropping off, a bunch of them are at points in their careers where they keep getting better and Rodgers has become a stable rock that I think this team will be able to rely on to lead the offense to great things next year. There's coaching stability, there's a great feel of commitment to the off season. This has early signs of something special.

[Bretsky]

I might have mis spoken with Bigby; maybe Jones might be our weakest starter. But if Jones gets stronger he did show some pass rushing skills and i think his upside to be an above average starter is better. I think one could argue either way.

[Bretsky]

I read up on Neal on Twitter and am digging him more as a player with a good attitude then I did right after the draft

[get louder at lambeau]

So if he is to play in there, we'll carry him as long as we can until he's up to speed but, (shoot), he's good.

Possible translation- "The kid is gonna be a hell of a player, but he's not quite ready for prime time yet."

[Joemailman]

Another possible translation: "Bigby better get his ass to training camp on time."

[RashanGary]

So if he is to play in there, we'll carry him as long as we can until he's up to speed but, (shoot), he's good.

Possible translation- "The kid is gonna be a hell of a player, but he's not quite ready for prime time yet."

That's kind of what I expect. Bigby is a solid player with flashes of greatness but extreme injury issues.

Burnett is a very young player that will probably flash greatness just because of his athletic ability, but we don't know if he'll ever be a player, let alone if he'll be good out of the gate.

My bet is on the solid but unreliable vet. If Bigby can get through the season, he buys us time until Burnett is theoretically ready to take over (next year would be ideal)

[get louder at lambeau]

So if he is to play in there, we'll carry him as long as we can until he's up to speed but, (shoot), he's good.

Possible translation- "The kid is gonna be a hell of a player, but he's not quite ready for prime time yet."

That's kind of what I expect. Bigby is a solid player with flashes of greatness but extreme injury issues.

Burnett is a very young player that will probably flash greatness just because of his athletic ability, but we don't know if he'll ever be a player, let alone if he'll be good out of the gate.

My bet is on the solid but unreliable vet. If Bigby can get through the season, he buys us time until Burnett is theoretically ready to take over (next year would be ideal)

I'm with you on that. I wouldn't be surprised to see Burnett subbed in frequently, but my bet is on Bigby to start.

[mraynrand]

JH bringin it with the Koolaid post. I'll take a sip.

[Lurker64]

When watching Burnett at GT, the thing that stuck out to me wasn't his athleticism (though his range is very good), it was his ability to read run/pass cues and anticipate routes. He played in a conference that was a pretty even mix of run and pass (excepting the offense of the team he played for) and his ability to diagnose the play quickly was top notch. The GT defense as a whole was a mess, but he always seemed to be moving towards the ball. His tackling technique was adequate, he was a powerful hitter, he redirects well, and he can stay on a WR's hip if asked to cover man.

The thing that worries me, though, is that he doesn't seem to instinctively attack the line of scrimmage when he sees a crease. He doesn't seem to ever plant and charge (something you'd like out of your SS), and seems to be more comfortable as a last-line defender. This is hopefully something that Darren Perry can cure him of, and if he can develop attacking instincts (instead of just coverage instincts) he could be a truly great one.

Not a finished product right now, but I really wouldn't worry much if we had to start him week 1. He's not going to get burned in the passing game, but he's also not much of a hunter killer at this point.

[packrulz]

I'm with JH, I think Bigby can make some plays if he could stay healthy. One guy I've been hoping to hear some positive feedback about is Pat Lee, so far...nothing. He needs to get his ass in gear.

[3irty1]

Woodson also liked that safety we got in FA from the Steelers last year. Woodson's opinion doesn't mean a lot to me.

[Fritz]

I'm on the Pat Lee koolaid train.

[swede]

I'm on the Pat Lee koolaid train.

Were there many of you in that ticket line?

[rbaloha1]

The next Darren Sharper. Big upgrade over Bigby in terms of interceptions and breaking up passes.

AB is actually best at the line of scrimmage blitzing or playing the run. Drew Rosenhaus is really messing up his client.

[vince]

Here's a review from Burnett's pro-day that I don't remember seeing before. It certainly backs up his performance in shorts thus far.

http://rob-rang.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/13682485/21002498

S Burnett -- the "wow" workout no one knows
Posted on: April 16, 2010 12:21 pm

It happens every year. There is a workout or two that slip through the cracks when the Pro Days are going strong that somehow doesn't get the attention it deserves.

This year that workout was the Georgia Tech Pro Day.

While all of the attention on that day was placed upon defensive end Derrick Morgan and running back Jonathan Dwyer, in reality, free safety Morgan Burnett was the star of the show.

His numbers, while all impressive, were led by a 3.92 second short shuttle -- the fastest verified time from any player tested at the Combine or any Pro Day this year. His 11'08 broad jump is also a spectacular number.

As a point of comparison, Fresno State cornerback A.J. Jefferson led all Combine participants with a 4.00 second time in the short shuttle and Virginia cornerback Chris Cook led all in Indianapolis with an 11 foot broad jump.

Burnett was unable to workout at the Combine due to a strained hamstring.

Measuring in at 6-1 (3/8) and 209 pounds, Burnett was clocked at 4.51 seconds in the 40-yard dash, among the fastest times of any safety tested this year. He also posted a 39.5" vertical jump, an 11'08" broad jump and a 6.87 second 3-cone drill.

Folks, those are staggering numbers that deserve attention.

I've spoken with teams who feel that Burnett is a lock for the middle of the second round. Based on these numbers, Burnett should have been included in my previous post -- which identified five players who could be surprise first round picks.

In reality, the people who matter -- NFL scouts -- fully know Burnett's impressive workout results. An estimated 20 teams were represented at the workout, including three head coaches. While Gil Brandt and the staff at NFL.com typically do a fabulous job of posting the "official" results from each workout, this one inexplicably was not reported.

[mission]

Nice one, Vince... I guess that hamstring injury during the combine was a blessing for us. I'm really surprised where he went, even with the trade up...

[red]

good news

it would still be nice to see one of the other cb's also take a step forward

[KYPack]

Nice one, Vince... I guess that hamstring injury during the combine was a blessing for us. I'm really surprised where he went, even with the trade up...

What is your "Burnette report", Mish?

I know you see a lot of GT games down there.

[Patler]

The next Darren Sharper. Big upgrade over Bigby in terms of interceptions and breaking up passes.


You think so? In the last 3 years, Bigby has played 36 games, starting 33. Basically, two seasons worth. He has 10 interceptions and 19 passes defensed. In a number of those games he left after only a quarter or two when they tried to get him back from injury two years ago.
On a per game basis, for the games he has played, Bigby's numbers aren't far off of Collins'.

[RashanGary]

The next Darren Sharper. Big upgrade over Bigby in terms of interceptions and breaking up passes.


You think so? In the last 3 years, Bigby has played 36 games, starting 33. Basically, two seasons worth. He has 10 interceptions and 19 passes defensed. In a number of those games he left after only a quarter or two when they tried to get him back from injury two years ago.
On a per game basis, for the games he has played, Bigby's numbers aren't far off of Collins'.

Sometimes I think people forget, around the league, there aren't many safeties who make as many big plays as Atari Bigby.

[KYPack]

Brace yourself, you two.

[mission]

Nice one, Vince... I guess that hamstring injury during the combine was a blessing for us. I'm really surprised where he went, even with the trade up...

What is your "Burnette report", Mish?

I know you see a lot of GT games down there.

Well, I'll try to spare you guys what you already know.

Watching him the last three years, I always thought of him as kind of an Ed Reed type of guy. Instinctive beyond belief, able to almost Woodson-bait QBs into throwing to spots they shouldn't be throwing to. At one point I just kind of assumed he was a first round guy; how could he not be, he's all over the place. Looks like he's playing on step ahead of everyone.

Then this year something happened. Not necessarily with Burnette but with the GT defense. They would run up 500-600 yards on offense and still just getting their back broke on defense... guys completely lost, huge gaping holes up the middle (10 yards untouched). Picture the GB/AZ playoff game but that same feeling for most of the season. Teams didn't really even think about passing on Tech... they didn't have to. They made no adjustments from team to team and many feel were lucky to have the W/L they had.

Then Morgan started having some multi-sack games and everyone was talking about him and Dwyer and how they had two sure-fire 1st rounders... Morgan (burnette) was kind of the forgotten man, he didn't have a lot of opportunities and often found himself picking up for poor coverages around him and having to cover too much ground. The view that he is out of position sometimes I don't necessarily agree with. Just the whole defense in general, and how frustrating it was for everyone, it's easy for a top talent on a team (largely) of bozos to freelance a little bit and have a little more freedom to do it.

They were so poorly coached on D that the entire staff got let go ... it was a topic of sports talk radio for much of the year from techie callers. They couldn't believe how bad the front 7 was playing considering having guys like Morgan and Burnette.

To summarize: I think he's the kind of guy that will shine with veteran leadership and coaching around him. He's bright from a football standpoint and just GETS the game, loves to play football and is hungry to be a successful. He's a south side Atlanta guy and that's kind of hood but I feel he looks at it more as an opportunity to change his legacy and isn't going to take it lightly. I think GB is a good place for him to be focused on football.. I don't even really partake in the Bigby vs Burnette arguments because I really don't think it's even close. Maybe from game 1, or early in the season, Bigby would be the better guy. But give both guys equal understanding of the playbook and Burnette is a potential Pro Bowler. It's not even close... he could have Clay Matthews impact early... Woodson/Collins later in his career.

I'm not really even down on Bigby, I like the guy... but he's not that TALENTED... his ceiling isn't as high as Burnette's, and I think that's why Ted took him. You'll see, I love watching him play. He's gonna be a big little secret. :wink:

[rbaloha1]

The next Darren Sharper. Big upgrade over Bigby in terms of interceptions and breaking up passes.


You think so? In the last 3 years, Bigby has played 36 games, starting 33. Basically, two seasons worth. He has 10 interceptions and 19 passes defensed. In a number of those games he left after only a quarter or two when they tried to get him back from injury two years ago.
On a per game basis, for the games he has played, Bigby's numbers aren't far off of Collins'.

Decent stats. MB puts up better stats. Bye Bye AB. Thank you Drew.

[Joemailman]

The next Darren Sharper. Big upgrade over Bigby in terms of interceptions and breaking up passes.


You think so? In the last 3 years, Bigby has played 36 games, starting 33. Basically, two seasons worth. He has 10 interceptions and 19 passes defensed. In a number of those games he left after only a quarter or two when they tried to get him back from injury two years ago.
On a per game basis, for the games he has played, Bigby's numbers aren't far off of Collins'.

Decent stats. MB puts up better stats. Bye Bye AB. Thank you Drew.

That might be a convincing argument if the ACC were as tough as the NFL.

[rbaloha1]

The next Darren Sharper. Big upgrade over Bigby in terms of interceptions and breaking up passes.


You think so? In the last 3 years, Bigby has played 36 games, starting 33. Basically, two seasons worth. He has 10 interceptions and 19 passes defensed. In a number of those games he left after only a quarter or two when they tried to get him back from injury two years ago.
On a per game basis, for the games he has played, Bigby's numbers aren't far off of Collins'.

Decent stats. MB puts up better stats. Bye Bye AB. Thank you Drew.

That might be a convincing argument if the ACC were as tough as the NFL.

Just wait until the season starts. MB is the starter since AB is being screwed by DR.

[Joemailman]

I'm on the Pat Lee koolaid train.

Just stay away from any Kool-aid that Johnny Jolly tries to give you.

[Joemailman]

I think Bigby is figuring that the Packers have drafted his replacement, and have no interest in giving him an extension since they only need him for one year. He may be right. I think he's going to try to get that extension from the Packers, and if he can't, try to force a trade to a team who will.

[Patler]

I think Bigby is figuring that the Packers have drafted his replacement, and have no interest in giving him an extension since they only need him for one year. He may be right. I think he's going to try to get that extension from the Packers, and if he can't, try to force a trade to a team who will.

I think you are correct. Bigby has played four years and has been a starter for three of those years. He was basically a minimum wage player the first three years, before getting 1.5 million last year. He has been injured a lot, and probably realizes that he is not likely to get a huge contract ever. If he can coax the Packers into a better deal with a bit of a signing bonus, it is in his interest to do so. Probably wants to play the "I have been way underpaid for a starter" guilt-trip card to get whatever upfront money he can. He isn't likely to have too many opportunities, just too brittle.

He probably didn't expect Burnett to fit in as well as he apparently has so far, and may be banking on him struggling a little when hitting starts.

[rbaloha1]

I think Bigby is figuring that the Packers have drafted his replacement, and have no interest in giving him an extension since they only need him for one year. He may be right. I think he's going to try to get that extension from the Packers, and if he can't, try to force a trade to a team who will.

Noted. Typical DR tactic.

[KYPack]

Mish (& RB),

You guys got me fired up.

Hand me down that pitcher of Kool-Aid with the big smiley face, I'm gonna chug 'bout half that bitch.

That robber S that Dom likes to play seems custom made for this kid. There a lot to know and a lotta quick reads, but he sounds like the man for the job.

[bobblehead]

The next Darren Sharper. Big upgrade over Bigby in terms of interceptions and breaking up passes.


You think so? In the last 3 years, Bigby has played 36 games, starting 33. Basically, two seasons worth. He has 10 interceptions and 19 passes defensed. In a number of those games he left after only a quarter or two when they tried to get him back from injury two years ago.
On a per game basis, for the games he has played, Bigby's numbers aren't far off of Collins'.

Thanx patler, I was too lazy to look it up, but I knew Bigby's numbers were damn good for his number of starts. Its no secret I think Bigby is underrated by packer fans, but seeing Burnett's numbers and reading this am I the only one who thinks he could potentially be the nickel or dime back depending on how our CB's play out?

Wouldn't it be nice if we could get Bigby to sign a "nice" contract for both sides and he actually get beat out by burnett.

[rbaloha1]

While "admiring" AB's stats lets also include the number of missed tackles.

[pbmax]

I'm on the Pat Lee koolaid train.
I'd suggest some Advil and have someone review your health insurance coverage.

[pbmax]

Woodson also liked that safety we got in FA from the Steelers last year. Woodson's opinion doesn't mean a lot to me.
That kid played OK even if he did get out of position too often. He was tossed aside for a safety who was better at special teams, not by someone who played safety better.

[Joemailman]

While "admiring" AB's stats lets also include the number of missed tackles.

How many?

[Fritz]

I want to start by saying I am glad to get Mish's opinion. I respect what he's saying and I am excited, too, by the prospects. So thanks for filling us in, Mish. Noboby from the papers is going to be able to give us that in-depth view.

So I believe or at least hope Burnett will be all that. But I think safety is a tough spot to pick up right away as a rookie. I've cited Darren Sharper as example 1A of a guy who took a few years to figure it out.

So my preference would be for Bigby to come in and start this year. Let Burnett play special teams and watch and learn.

But will Bigby come in and play for one year or will he try to force a trade or release or something? It appears the Pack sees Burnett as the starter of the future, so Bigby's odds of getting a nice fat long term contract are probably pretty slim.

[get louder at lambeau]

The next Darren Sharper. Big upgrade over Bigby in terms of interceptions and breaking up passes.


You think so? In the last 3 years, Bigby has played 36 games, starting 33. Basically, two seasons worth. He has 10 interceptions and 19 passes defensed. In a number of those games he left after only a quarter or two when they tried to get him back from injury two years ago.
On a per game basis, for the games he has played, Bigby's numbers aren't far off of Collins'.

I got sucked into an argument at one of my sites (packersnews.net) with a perennial Negative Nancy who said that Bigby "seems to lack natural playmaking instincts". I thought he was on crack, so I did some stat checking.

Bigby has averaged .36 turnovers caused per game started (INTs and FFs) in his career so far. That number means nothing without context, so I compared it to the three best Packer safeties in recent history, Nick Collins, LeRoy Butler, and Darren Sharper.

Collins has averaged .27/start, and is a two time Pro Bowler who is considered one of our best defensive playmakers.

Butler is the gold standard among recent Packer safeties, a Packer Hall of Famer, 5 time All-Pro, and 4 time Pro Bowler. He averaged .21/start in the regular season.

Sharper (in his Packer career) was a two time All-Pro, two time Pro Bowler, and was famous for going for the big play, sometimes blowing coverage because of it. He averaged .36/start, tied with Bigby for the most turnovers per game started as a Packer among recent safeties.

Here's the whole conversation, for anyone interested-
http://packersnews.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=8736&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

[vince]

What a situation... An up-and-coming playmaker, a solid (but injury prone) vet in his prime, and a young pro-bowler - but only 2 spots in the starting lineup.

Thompson is creating problems all over this roster.

[packerbacker1234]

What a situation... An up-and-coming playmaker, a solid (but injury prone) vet in his prime, and a young pro-bowler - but only 2 spots in the starting lineup.

Thompson is creating problems all over this roster.

Well, no one is even questioning Collins starting spot. We paid him to be the guy back there, he has a good track record, and is often considered one of the top FS's in the league. He's in. The question is what to do about Bigby and Burnett.

We know what the secondary is like with Bigby - he's been hurt many times and every time he is out the secondary takes a big decline in play. While Bigby may not be a big play maker, he feels like he is the glue that keeps everyone in place.

MEANWHILE, Burnett looks like a star in the making - we could potentionally be running two stud FS's in the back versus the traditional set up and have it be great combination - but Burnett is the rookie so he most likely is going to have to wait a season before getting a real shot. If he is healthy, I do trust Bigby as being our best option to "win now". He is a solid player, in his prime.

Still, Burnett is exciting. Just imagining him and Collins roaming back there for even 1 season with Woodson still being effective just sounds to me like a nightmare for any passing offense.

[get louder at lambeau]

While Bigby may not be a big play maker, he feels like he is the glue that keeps everyone in place.

Please refer to my post two before yours if you think Bigby is not a big play maker, then explain to me why you think that. If you'd be so kind, that is.

[Smidgeon]

What a situation... An up-and-coming playmaker, a solid (but injury prone) vet in his prime, and a young pro-bowler - but only 2 spots in the starting lineup.

Thompson is creating problems all over this roster.

...yeah. I hate that. :mrgreen:

[get louder at lambeau]

Oops. Fucked up.

[Iron Mike]

Oops. Fucked up.

Don't worry......it's happened to all of us.

http://xbradtc.files.wordpress.com/2008/06/fubar3ql.jpg

[packerbacker1234]

Oh bigby hits hard, forces a lot of fumbles, and gets a pick here and there - but he isn't ever on the field long enough every season for us to notice.

That is the problem. I am not saying he "isn't" able to make plays, it's just he can't stay healthy long enough for us to notice it. He has always been pretty good at laying the wood and causing some turmoil, while collins has strictly been a run support/int guy.

[Lurker64]

I want Bigby on the roster this year, I don't care whether he starts or not. If he does start week 1, he's going to miss time sooner or later due to injury, and as much as a lot of Packer fans dislike Bigby, he's better than Anthony Levine, Will Blackmon, Charlie or Peprah. Losing a safety for any length of time for this team has been disastrous.

[get louder at lambeau]

Oh bigby hits hard, forces a lot of fumbles, and gets a pick here and there - but he isn't ever on the field long enough every season for us to notice.

That is the problem. I am not saying he "isn't" able to make plays, it's just he can't stay healthy long enough for us to notice it. He has always been pretty good at laying the wood and causing some turmoil, while collins has strictly been a run support/int guy.

He has been injured quite a bit, but he still started 75% of the regular season games since he took over and started three of three playoff games. Considering that he was gimpy during many of those games, his turnover stats are amazing.

[SkinBasket]

Oh bigby hits hard, forces a lot of fumbles, and gets a pick here and there - but he isn't ever on the field long enough every season for us to notice.

That is the problem. I am not saying he "isn't" able to make plays, it's just he can't stay healthy long enough for us to notice it. He has always been pretty good at laying the wood and causing some turmoil, while collins has strictly been a run support/int guy.

He has been injured quite a bit, but he still started 75% of the regular season games since he took over and started three of three playoff games. Considering that he was gimpy during many of those games, his turnover stats are amazing.

When Ryan Leaf played against teams from cities that start with "D" in the month of November in years ending in 0, he was quite the play maker as well. As long as we're going to cherry pick selective, highly specific stats and declare a player pro bowl quality based on that, I think it would be remiss to exclude such greatness as Mr. Leaf.

[Joemailman]

Oh bigby hits hard, forces a lot of fumbles, and gets a pick here and there - but he isn't ever on the field long enough every season for us to notice.

That is the problem. I am not saying he "isn't" able to make plays, it's just he can't stay healthy long enough for us to notice it. He has always been pretty good at laying the wood and causing some turmoil, while collins has strictly been a run support/int guy.

He has been injured quite a bit, but he still started 75% of the regular season games since he took over and started three of three playoff games. Considering that he was gimpy during many of those games, his turnover stats are amazing.

When Ryan Leaf played against teams from cities that start with "D" in the month of November in years ending in 0, he was quite the play maker as well. As long as we're going to cherry pick selective, highly specific stats and declare a player pro bowl quality based on that, I think it would be remiss to exclude such greatness as Mr. Leaf.

Well then, at least we know that Bigby should have a great game when the Packers play Dallas on November 7 2010.

[rbaloha1]

Atari Bigby: Workmanlike strong safety whom the Packers will always be trying to replace. Allowed 4½ of his five TD passes from Weeks 7-10 but played much better down the stretch. Tries to be physical but lacks the range to reach a lot of plays. Better near the line of scrimmage; however, 16 players registered a tackle for loss and he didn't have any. Grade: C

MB is the starter.

[get louder at lambeau]

Oh bigby hits hard, forces a lot of fumbles, and gets a pick here and there - but he isn't ever on the field long enough every season for us to notice.

That is the problem. I am not saying he "isn't" able to make plays, it's just he can't stay healthy long enough for us to notice it. He has always been pretty good at laying the wood and causing some turmoil, while collins has strictly been a run support/int guy.

He has been injured quite a bit, but he still started 75% of the regular season games since he took over and started three of three playoff games. Considering that he was gimpy during many of those games, his turnover stats are amazing.

When Ryan Leaf played against teams from cities that start with "D" in the month of November in years ending in 0, he was quite the play maker as well. As long as we're going to cherry pick selective, highly specific stats and declare a player pro bowl quality based on that, I think it would be remiss to exclude such greatness as Mr. Leaf.

The only criteria were turnovers caused in games started. Ryan Leaf may have caused his share of tunrovers per game he started too, but that is hardly cherry picking stats.

[SkinBasket]

Oh bigby hits hard, forces a lot of fumbles, and gets a pick here and there - but he isn't ever on the field long enough every season for us to notice.

That is the problem. I am not saying he "isn't" able to make plays, it's just he can't stay healthy long enough for us to notice it. He has always been pretty good at laying the wood and causing some turmoil, while collins has strictly been a run support/int guy.

He has been injured quite a bit, but he still started 75% of the regular season games since he took over and started three of three playoff games. Considering that he was gimpy during many of those games, his turnover stats are amazing.

When Ryan Leaf played against teams from cities that start with "D" in the month of November in years ending in 0, he was quite the play maker as well. As long as we're going to cherry pick selective, highly specific stats and declare a player pro bowl quality based on that, I think it would be remiss to exclude such greatness as Mr. Leaf.

Well then, at least we know that Bigby should have a great game when the Packers play Dallas on November 7 2010.

Nice catch. Is Leaf still available/alive?

[Lurker64]

Oh bigby hits hard, forces a lot of fumbles, and gets a pick here and there - but he isn't ever on the field long enough every season for us to notice.

That is the problem. I am not saying he "isn't" able to make plays, it's just he can't stay healthy long enough for us to notice it. He has always been pretty good at laying the wood and causing some turmoil, while collins has strictly been a run support/int guy.

He has been injured quite a bit, but he still started 75% of the regular season games since he took over and started three of three playoff games. Considering that he was gimpy during many of those games, his turnover stats are amazing.

When Ryan Leaf played against teams from cities that start with "D" in the month of November in years ending in 0, he was quite the play maker as well. As long as we're going to cherry pick selective, highly specific stats and declare a player pro bowl quality based on that, I think it would be remiss to exclude such greatness as Mr. Leaf.

Well then, at least we know that Bigby should have a great game when the Packers play Dallas on November 7 2010.

Nice catch. Is Leaf still available/alive?

He's alive, but he's got some Legal Issues (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/football/nfl/05/21/leaf.indicted.ap/index.html) hanging over his head.

[SkinBasket]

How do you end up in legal trouble when your lawyer has a faux hawk?

http://nbcsportsmedia2.msnbc.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/090617-ryanLeaf-hmed-514p.hmedium.jpg

[get louder at lambeau]

How do you end up in legal trouble when your lawyer has a faux hawk?

http://nbcsportsmedia2.msnbc.com/j/MSNBC/Components/Photo/_new/090617-ryanLeaf-hmed-514p.hmedium.jpg

Judging by his haircut and the fact that he is staring at Ryan's haircut in that photo, I think that might be his stylist, not his lawyer.

[Guiness]

Love the last line of the article -


He threw for 3,666 yards and 14 touchdowns in his career.

Only mention the TDs!

So, does Russel supplant RL as the biggest bust?

[Joemailman]

Love the last line of the article -


He threw for 3,666 yards and 14 touchdowns in his career.

Only mention the TDs!

So, does Russel supplant RL as the biggest bust?

Considering he reportedly weighed about 300 this year, I'd say so.

[get louder at lambeau]

Love the last line of the article -


He threw for 3,666 yards and 14 touchdowns in his career.

Only mention the TDs!

So, does Russel supplant RL as the biggest bust?

Considering he reportedly weighed about 300 this year, I'd say so.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ji-cT58rgNc

[woodbuck27]

Woodson looked about how he looks normally to me. Hard to tell.


A couple guys I thought stood out as having positive changes to their physique; B Jones (last year he looked thin and boyish. This year, he looks like a man) Tramon (looks a little more ripped, but very lean still), Jenkins (looks very ripped), Raji (I love how this guy carries his weight, squatty as hell, huge, you can see more muscle on him than last year) and Sitton (Bigger, more ripped, more mature). I believe Woodson when he says he's in good shape though.

Here's a list of guys I like to make us better this year

Tauscher (a year removed from the knee injury)
B. Jones (Obviously stronger and it's good common sense to expect a 2nd year player to know what he's doing more than he did as a rookie.)
Sitton (looks like a monster and Rodgers said he had a great offseason)
Nelson (I'm buying the OTA/mini camp hype. Guy is making plays)
J. Jones (I still think he's a hell of a player, hasn't had enough opportunities)
Finley (everyones favorite pick to break out and for good reason, guy is unique)
Rodgers (I know he had a good year last year, but he really didn't become great until the last 7 or 8 games. Look for a full season of even greater greatness and a lot of wins)
Tramon Williams (hell of a player, just keeps getting better)
Jason Spitz, TJ Lang and Bryan Bulaga (more ready to play talent backing up our OL)
Defenses 2nd year (Collins, Tramon, Bigby, Matthews, Jones, Barnett, Hawk, Chillar all are more familiar with the defense and should play more assignment sure than a year ago)
Flynn (I see what seems to be a strong upward trend from this guy. Can't wait to see him in the preseason. We might need him to win a game or two)


Here are guys I'm hoping step up, but am not as excited for as the list I just made:

Brandon Underwood, Al Harris (horrible injury), Patrick Lee and Josh Bell (hopefully one or two of these guys is a player this year).

Burnett (rookie, but odds are he'll be playing at one point or another and hopefully he's solid)

Neal, Wilson, Jolly, Harrell (I'm hoping at least 2 of these guys are legit, impact depth this year)

Brandon Jackson, James Starks (who knows about Starks. Jackson jsut hasn't done much yet, but we don't have a good backup to Ryan Grant unless one of these guys steps up)



The bottom line, there is a ton of youth on this team. Some of it is showing signs of getting ready to explode on the scene, others haven't yet, but you never know who the next Aaron Kampman, Donald Driver, Marco Rivera or Mike Wahle might be, really turning it on in their 3rd, 4th or 5th seasons. It happens.

I see a lot of reason to expect big things from this team. They were good last year, not many players are dropping off, a bunch of them are at points in their careers where they keep getting better and Rodgers has become a stable rock that I think this team will be able to rely on to lead the offense to great things next year. There's coaching stability, there's a great feel of commitment to the off season. This has early signs of something special.

Nice informative post JH.