Ranking the best secondaries heading into the 2010 season

[pack4to84]

1. Packers -- They have three excellent corners in Woodson, Williams and Harris. They had outstanding production from their safeties last year and added one in the draft. They got 24 interceptions from their starters last year, despite ranking only 11th in sacks.

2. Jets -- They might have been No. 1 if they had kept Rhodes. They are great at corner with Revis and Cromartie, and in the nickel with Lowery or rookie Wilson. They will be a top dime defense. They had the fewest sacks of the five teams that made this list with 31, but they were tops in completion percentage defense and yards per pass attempt allowed.

3. Saints -- Depth makes their secondary very attractive. They score fast on offense and most teams are playing catch-up against them, so nickel and dime defenses are critical. Tracey Porter, Jabari Greer, rookie Patrick Robinson, and Jenkins make their corner depth excellent. Sharper is joined by Roman Harper and Usama Young at safety. The Saints saw 73 more passes than the Jets did in 2009 and 34 more than the Packers, which affected the stats.

4. Bengals -- A terrific pair of starting corners (Hall and Joseph), a solid corner pickup in the draft (Ghee), and underrated safeties Chris Crocker and Chinedum Ndukwe make up a solid secondary. Roy Williams has a place in the secondary, but they may be better off without him. The Bengals generated only 34 sacks last year and that number should improve this season, thus helping the secondary.

5. Bills -- I can't believe they let defensive coordinator Perry Fewell go this offseason. They had the second-ranked pass defense, nabbed 28 interceptions, which was second to Green Bay's 30, and only allowed 14 touchdown passes.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d818c4908&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true
By Pat Kirwan NFL.com ranks the Packers number 1.

[bobblehead]

This is awesome to get us turnovers, but its all about knocking down the QB. If we can't figure out how to put some hurt on guys like Favre, Rothlesburger, and Warner we can't be the elite D we all crave.

[KYPack]

Great ranking. But it ignores the elephant in the room. Where are we at with Al Harris probably out for a good chunk of time?

The Packers have young talent and wise vets. Our safeties are far superior to Cincy, for instance. We have a solid group in the back line. if Jones and CMIII coninue their development, we can have a great D vs the pass.

[retailguy]

Where are we at with Al Harris probably out for a good chunk of time?


The real test. Regardless of where we are at, I think it takes us out of the #1 ranking.

If someone steps us, we should be far better than adequate. Good enough to not derail the expectations, that's for sure.

[wist43]

Good Lord guys...

Put in a tape of the Arizona game, and then tell me with a straight face that we have the best secondary in the league :shock:

Harris is a huge question mark, and will likely lose the step he can't afford to lose; Williams is okay, but it's not even proven he can be a starter, let alone a reliable one; there is next to no depth at CB - unless Underwood turns out (which I'm hoping); and, we have a huge hole at Safety.

I'm hopeful for Underwood and Burnett... hold out next to no hope for Lee and Bush, but where we are now is nowhere near the best secondary in the league.

Granted most of the blame for the Arizona debacle can be laid at the feet of Capers, but a decent secondary would have offered at least some resistance.

[sharpe1027]

Good Lord guys...

Put in a tape of the Arizona game, and then tell me with a straight face that we have the best secondary in the league :shock:

Harris is a huge question mark, and will likely lose the step he can't afford to lose; Williams is okay, but it's not even proven he can be a starter, let alone a reliable one; there is next to no depth at CB - unless Underwood turns out (which I'm hoping); and, we have a huge hole at Safety.

I'm hopeful for Underwood and Burnett... hold out next to no hope for Lee and Bush, but where we are now is nowhere near the best secondary in the league.

Granted most of the blame for the Arizona debacle can be laid at the feet of Capers, but a decent secondary would have offered at least some resistance.

Valid points, however, no team is without their flaws. I bet that if you turned your attention to other teams, in an equally critical manner, you would find plenty of potential problems. It is a relative determination after all.

[ThunderDan]

Good Lord guys...

Put in a tape of the Arizona game, and then tell me with a straight face that we have the best secondary in the league :shock:

Harris is a huge question mark, and will likely lose the step he can't afford to lose; Williams is okay, but it's not even proven he can be a starter, let alone a reliable one; there is next to no depth at CB - unless Underwood turns out (which I'm hoping); and, we have a huge hole at Safety.

I'm hopeful for Underwood and Burnett... hold out next to no hope for Lee and Bush, but where we are now is nowhere near the best secondary in the league.

Granted most of the blame for the Arizona debacle can be laid at the feet of Capers, but a decent secondary would have offered at least some resistance.

Valid points, however, no team is without their flaws. I bet that if you turned your attention to other teams, in an equally critical manner, you would find plenty of potential problems. It is a relative determination after all.

You beat me to it. Every team has flaws. Anytime a dime back steps on the field there is going to be trouble for the defensive team. There aren't enough quality CBs in the league for every team to have 2, yet alone 3 or 4.

The Packers had their 6th string CB in against ARI and they got torched. No team can match a 6th string CB against the spread and win the 1-on-1 battles. The Packers needed a different scheme for the D as Wist mentioned.

[sharpe1027]

You beat me to it. Every team has flaws. Anytime a dime back steps on the field there is going to be trouble for the defensive team. There aren't enough quality CBs in the league for every team to have 2, yet alone 3 or 4.

The Packers had their 6th string CB in against ARI and they got torched. No team can match a 6th string CB against the spread and win the 1-on-1 battles. The Packers needed a different scheme for the D as Wist mentioned.

Scheme and the opposing team can have a lot to do with any single game. Also, sometimes players make mistakes and just have bad games. In the Arizona game, for example, I fell Woodson had one of his worst games of the year. It doesn't mean that he is a bad DB anymore than the same game meant that Packers had a bad secondary last year. Focusing too much on one or two games (whether good or bad) doesn't strike me as a good way to assess the season.

[retailguy]

You beat me to it. Every team has flaws. Anytime a dime back steps on the field there is going to be trouble for the defensive team. There aren't enough quality CBs in the league for every team to have 2, yet alone 3 or 4.

The Packers had their 6th string CB in against ARI and they got torched. No team can match a 6th string CB against the spread and win the 1-on-1 battles. The Packers needed a different scheme for the D as Wist mentioned.

Scheme and the opposing team can have a lot to do with any single game. Also, sometimes players make mistakes and just have bad games. In the Arizona game, for example, I fell Woodson had one of his worst games of the year. It doesn't mean that he is a bad DB anymore than the same game meant that Packers had a bad secondary last year. Focusing too much on one or two games (whether good or bad) doesn't strike me as a good way to assess the season.

Understand your points and what you're saying, but in Wist's defense it was a rather important game.

We aren't a #1 secondary team, and I don't think we're close, however, this team should win, and their season should not be derailed by this secondary.

It is plenty good enough, even without Harris for a portion of the season.

[sharpe1027]

Understand your points and what you're saying, but in Wist's defense it was a rather important game.

We aren't a #1 secondary team, and I don't think we're close, however, this team should win, and their season should not be derailed by this secondary.

It is plenty good enough, even without Harris for a portion of the season.

I can definitely agree that the Zona game should carry more weight than say a game against Detroit. I can agree that we might not be the #1, but I can't say for sure who is better because it is a relative measure.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Statistically, the Jets had the best secondary last year. However, in the NFC the Pack's ranks:

Passer rating: 1st
Completion %: 1st
Yards per pass play: 1st
Interceptions: 1st

Kind of hard to argue the numbers--especially considering their pass rush was non-existent for much of the year.

[Joemailman]

It's the red zone, stupid! (Not referring to anyone in particular). :D

The Packers had the league's #5 pass defense based on passing yards given up. However, only 4 teams yielded more than the 29 TD passes the Packers gave up.

In both losses to the Vikings, Rodgers had more passing yards than Favre. The Packers just couldn't stop Favre in the red zone, thus Favre ended up with 7 TD passes and 0 INT's in the two games. Not coincidentally, the Packers had 0 sacks in the 2 games.

[sharpe1027]

It's the red zone, stupid! (Not referring to anyone in particular). :D

The Packers had the league's #5 pass defense based on passing yards given up. However, only 4 teams yielded more than the 29 TD passes the Packers gave up.

In both losses to the Vikings, Rodgers had more passing yards than Favre. The Packers just couldn't stop Favre in the red zone, thus Favre ended up with 7 TD passes and 0 INT's in the two games. Not coincidentally, the Packers had 0 sacks in the 2 games.

Great point. At least Capers seems aware of the issue.

Red-Zone Defense Targeted For 2010
http://www.packers.com/news/stories/2010/05/21/1/

[packerbacker1234]

Good Lord guys...

Put in a tape of the Arizona game, and then tell me with a straight face that we have the best secondary in the league :shock:

Harris is a huge question mark, and will likely lose the step he can't afford to lose; Williams is okay, but it's not even proven he can be a starter, let alone a reliable one; there is next to no depth at CB - unless Underwood turns out (which I'm hoping); and, we have a huge hole at Safety.

I'm hopeful for Underwood and Burnett... hold out next to no hope for Lee and Bush, but where we are now is nowhere near the best secondary in the league.

Granted most of the blame for the Arizona debacle can be laid at the feet of Capers, but a decent secondary would have offered at least some resistance.

Look at our secondary, and you tell me they are the "real" problem. Outside of Matthews, we had ZERO consistent pass rush last season. Yes, the front 7 was GREAT against the run, but in general it was extremely underwhelming against the pass. Some of it is capers fault, some of it is just on the players. Kampman couldn't get pressure when he did play, and Brad Jones was still feeling things out. Add on that Hawk had an underwhelming year and Barnett was coming off a major injury... the LB crew just really didn't get it together.

The secondary, in that of itself, is pretty sick in GB. People look at "well these great QB's are tearing us apart" and go "we must suck". In reality, is the secondary supposed to cover for 7, 10, 15 seconds? I mean, thats just insane to expect that.

Few things I disagree with in the post I quoted:

First off, what huge hole at saftey? We have one of the best FS's in the league, and as the numbers play out, Bigby is actually one of the better SS's in the league when healthy. He has the highest turnover per play I believe in packers history right now. Guy may not be as flashy as Collins... and he may not stay healthy for a full season, but when healthy... guys is incredible. He seems to have the Bob Sanders effect - without him were constantly getting torched, but with him our defense seems to be at a whole new level.

Add on the fact Burnett could pan out into something special if your sick of bigby being hurt, and really were actually very strong at SS.

Lets say harris comes back but has indeed lost a step (as is expected) - he would still be a servicable corner. maybe no longer an elite corner, or a really good corner... but he could still be decent, and a clear upgrade over ANYTHING we have to offer as a nickle corner. Fact remains, with harris back, we are an even better secondary than before.

Woodson - Collins - Bigby - Williams, Harris, and a potential stud in Burnett

ANd the numbers don't lie. One looks at arizona game and is like "omg" or the vikings games and is like "man we suck" - but statistically, the secondary itself was stellar. Woodson was a stud out there, as was collins. Bigby played extremely well, and when he was healthy harris was actually doing good. Williams, outside of one game where he was mugging everyone, was solid the whole season. Our secondary, on the whole, was 2nd really only to the jets.

The jets may have gained some decent corners, but they also lost someone who is considered a STUD safety. Adding more corners doesn't fix that hole. That is usually why GB is put ahead of them for 2010 - we bring EVERYONE back from a secondary last year that was pretty stellar, while the jets added some parts but didn't fix the hole they created at safety.

Are only weak spots, in the secondary for this season....

1. Harris can't make a recovery to at least being a solid nickle back. He is on pace, doing all the drills right, and in great physical shape as always. Not sure anyone in the league can compete with his work ethic, but he is aging, had one of the worst possible football injuries you could have, and you would think he will lose a step due purely to the injury. I think he is will still be servicable, but if he's not, we do NOT have a true answer at the nickle position.

2. If Burnett is all camp and practice, but no play - Bibgy is most likely going to miss a few games here and there due to his injury history - is Burnett capable to step in this season and perform? He is getting rave reviews during practice, but practice is not game performance. It's a whole new level when you play in a real game.


Thats about it. Otherwise, everyone is back, and we have no real "holes" in the starting roster.

[wist43]

Nobody on this board is as nutty about pass rush as I am... my game plans would always start from sending 11 guys on the pass rush every play, and make concessions of dropping guys into coverage from there :)

I fully understand that no pass rush = 51 pts; and, I put the vast majority of the blame for the Arizona debacle on Capers for his pussified game plan in that playoff game; but then again, that is his nature - against bad offenses w/bad QB's, he's aggressive; against good offenses w/good QB's he's timid, and simply hopes to hold them under 83 pts.

Another acknowledgement of this discussion is - yes, every team has holes; but, you can't say we have the #1 secondary, and then try to justify that claim by saying we're the best b/c everybody else sucks. By that reckoning, you're saying we're the least worst - I don't buy that.

I'm not saying we're the worst, but I am saying we so lacking in depth and top line talent, that the secondary has to be the biggest positional concern on the roster... the secondary from last year was nowhere near good enough to win us a SB.

If Capers is doing his job, he can hide a lot of our shortcomings... but what are the odds that he ramps up the aggression up front come playoff time, when we are likely to face good teams with good QB's??? It is highly likely that Capers will crawl back inside the safety of his "keep everything in front of you, and rush 3 or 4" cave, and the secondary will once again be left to try to defend receivers running free with no jamb off the line, combined with a good QB who is sitting comfortably in the pocket.

In other words, come playoff time... unless Capers wakes up one morning channeling Rex Ryan, we can expect a repeat of the Arizona game... the question then becomes - can Rodgers and co. score 52???

[mraynrand]

I'm with ya Wist. You have to beat the crap out of QBs - even if they burn you for a score here and there. You have to make them look for pass rush first, then passing second. Especially the old farts like Warner and Favre, who have taken so many hits that it will get to them psychologically eventually and they will throw back across the middle late instead of running for the safe yards, just to avoid getting clobbered. If nothing else, Capers has to bring the house against the Vikings this year. He was a total wuss last year.

[Joemailman]

I'm with ya Wist. You have to beat the crap out of QBs - even if they burn you for a score here and there. You have to make them look for pass rush first, then passing second. Especially the old farts like Warner and Favre, who have taken so many hits that it will get to them psychologically eventually and they will throw back across the middle late instead of running for the safe yards, just to avoid getting clobbered. If nothing else, Capers has to bring the house against the Vikings this year. He was a total wuss last year.

The NFC Title game, as you allude to last year was a perfect example. The Vikings scored on the first 2 drives of the game, and Favre was 10-14 for 89 yards and 1 TD. The Saints though didn't stop bringing pressure. If anything, they seemed to increase it. As the game wore on, Favre became less effective. After those first 2 drives, he was 18-32 for 221 yards with 0 TD's and 2 INT's.

[esoxx]

I'm with ya Wist. You have to beat the crap out of QBs - even if they burn you for a score here and there. You have to make them look for pass rush first, then passing second. Especially the old farts like Warner and Favre, who have taken so many hits that it will get to them psychologically eventually and they will throw back across the middle late instead of running for the safe yards, just to avoid getting clobbered. If nothing else, Capers has to bring the house against the Vikings this year. He was a total wuss last year.

The NFC Title game, as you allude to last year was a perfect example. The Vikings scored on the first 2 drives of the game, and Favre was 10-14 for 89 yards and 1 TD. The Saints though didn't stop bringing pressure. If anything, they seemed to increase it. As the game wore on, Favre became less effective. After those first 2 drives, he was 18-32 for 221 yards with 0 TD's and 2 INT's.

True dat. Take SB XXXII against Denver. They sent the house all game long, even after Favre took the Packers down the field for an opening score hitting Freeman while getting whacked by the blitz.

It would have been really easy for the Broncos to call off the dogs after getting burned like that, but to their credit, they stuck to their game plan and kept it coming.

And I hate the cheatin' fucking Broncos from that era, but I'll give them credit for sticking to their guns.

They had the "Ivan Drago, I will break you" approach, and it paid off handsomely.

Even if you you're not getting sacks, have to get the QB playing musical chairs with happy feet, knock him off his game, or he'll eat you alive.

That doesn't mean you have to blitz, but if the guys up front aren't getting it done, you have to find a way to create pressure and get the QB out of his groove. No doubt about it.

[The Leaper]

Yep...I can't believe people who actually think that dropping back into coverage and not blitzing against a pocket passer like Warner is a good idea. He'll pick you apart all day even if you drop 11 into coverage if he doesn't have to worry about pressure. Even Jay Cutler can beat you if you don't get any pressure on him.

[Scott Campbell]

If we end up with the number 1 defense in the league this season, then the Lombardi is ours.

[retailguy]

If we end up with the number 1 defense in the league this season, then the Lombardi is ours.

If we end up with a top 10 defense the Lombardi ought to be ours. There really aren't any legitimate excuses left for this team not to win it all.

[sharpe1027]

Yep...I can't believe people who actually think that dropping back into coverage and not blitzing against a pocket passer like Warner is a good idea. He'll pick you apart all day even if you drop 11 into coverage if he doesn't have to worry about pressure. Even Jay Cutler can beat you if you don't get any pressure on him.

Jay can beat you alright, but only if he is on your team. :twisted:

[woodbuck27]

If we end up with the number 1 defense in the league this season, then the Lombardi is ours.

If we end up with a top 10 defense the Lombardi ought to be ours. There really aren't any legitimate excuses left for this team not to win it all.

No. We have special weaknesses.

The Packer brass and coaching staff have to get a better balance on D. We need a better pass rush and some decent STs esp. in terms of punting.

Can we expect Charles Woodson to continue with a similiar performance as he had last season and the status of ** Al Harris and his general consistency are factors that could hurt the pack on defense. We have to get ahead of the Vikings and that is a key to Packer success this season.

** http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/03/packers-cb-harris-injury-was-very-rare/

If Favre comes back....

[sharpe1027]

It's the red zone, stupid! (Not referring to anyone in particular). :D

The Packers had the league's #5 pass defense based on passing yards given up. However, only 4 teams yielded more than the 29 TD passes the Packers gave up.

In both losses to the Vikings, Rodgers had more passing yards than Favre. The Packers just couldn't stop Favre in the red zone, thus Favre ended up with 7 TD passes and 0 INT's in the two games. Not coincidentally, the Packers had 0 sacks in the 2 games.

For how bad our STs were, the defensive stats might be a bit misleading since they wouldn't be giving up as many yards simply because the other teams kept starting with such good field position.

Even so, all of the interceptions can't be overlooked.

[retailguy]

If we end up with the number 1 defense in the league this season, then the Lombardi is ours.

If we end up with a top 10 defense the Lombardi ought to be ours. There really aren't any legitimate excuses left for this team not to win it all.

No. We have special weaknesses.

The Packer brass and coaching staff have to get a better balance on D. We need a better pass rush and some decent STs esp. in terms of punting.

Can we expect Charles Woodson to continue with a similiar performance as he had last season and the status of ** Al Harris and his general consistency are factors that could hurt the pack on defense. We have to get ahead of the Vikings and that is a key to Packer success this season.

** http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/03/packers-cb-harris-injury-was-very-rare/

If Favre comes back....

We have no holes. All that stuff is a myth.

This team is pumped and ready. The old me would have been concerned that the OL will (for the 4th year in a row), start off slow and play horribly for unexplained reasons, but I have been assured by the true football minds here that this is no longer the case, and I believe them. They are never wrong.

My prediction for 2010 is 14-2, with a 1st round bye and a Super Bowl berth. Anything less will be a major disappointment.

I've sent you some kool-aid by PM, Woody, DRINK UP! We're bowl bound baby!

[MJZiggy]

If we end up with the number 1 defense in the league this season, then the Lombardi is ours.

If we end up with a top 10 defense the Lombardi ought to be ours. There really aren't any legitimate excuses left for this team not to win it all.

No. We have special weaknesses.

The Packer brass and coaching staff have to get a better balance on D. We need a better pass rush and some decent STs esp. in terms of punting.

Can we expect Charles Woodson to continue with a similiar performance as he had last season and the status of ** Al Harris and his general consistency are factors that could hurt the pack on defense. We have to get ahead of the Vikings and that is a key to Packer success this season.

** http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/03/packers-cb-harris-injury-was-very-rare/

If Favre comes back....

We have no holes. All that stuff is a myth.

This team is pumped and ready. The old me would have been concerned that the OL will (for the 4th year in a row), start off slow and play horribly for unexplained reasons, but I have been assured by the true football minds here that this is no longer the case, and I believe them. They are never wrong.

My prediction for 2010 is 14-2, with a 1st round bye and a Super Bowl berth. Anything less will be a major disappointment.

I've sent you some kool-aid by PM, Woody, DRINK UP! We're bowl bound baby!

Who are you and what have you done with RG? (and do you know anything about rhetorical criticism and its role among research methodologies? I'm writing a paper and I'm stuck.)

[retailguy]

This is THE year Ziggy. I can just feel it.

This looks boring, but....

http://books.google.com/books?id=lVG_dCNbYo4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=rhetorical+criticism&source=bl&ots=_c8nx97HRB&sig=zaJnEdXJ-G7sD_xenvKaupIEync&hl=en&ei=2DgyTNWKC9WEnQexoYjcAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false

[MJZiggy]

This is THE year Ziggy. I can just feel it.

This looks boring, but....

http://books.google.com/books?id=lVG_dCNbYo4C&printsec=frontcover&dq=rhetorical+criticism&source=bl&ots=_c8nx97HRB&sig=zaJnEdXJ-G7sD_xenvKaupIEync&hl=en&ei=2DgyTNWKC9WEnQexoYjcAw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAg#v=onepage&q&f=false

Zombie book! Was supposed to die but never quite did. I'm working with *Foss (3ed.) and a feminist criticism of the Jessica Lynch story. I just don't happen to like the application of the method on the story (even if I do think the author is correct) but can't put my finger on exactly why. I guess I just want something a little more quantitative. The author starts in that direction, and then drops the thread and when she states that that Lynch's rank was omitted repeatedly, something in me still wants to know how many times. Blech.

[woodbuck27]

If we end up with the number 1 defense in the league this season, then the Lombardi is ours.

If we end up with a top 10 defense the Lombardi ought to be ours. There really aren't any legitimate excuses left for this team not to win it all.

No. We have special weaknesses.

The Packer brass and coaching staff have to get a better balance on D. We need a better pass rush and some decent STs esp. in terms of punting.

Can we expect Charles Woodson to continue with a similiar performance as he had last season and the status of ** Al Harris and his general consistency are factors that could hurt the pack on defense. We have to get ahead of the Vikings and that is a key to Packer success this season.

** http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/03/packers-cb-harris-injury-was-very-rare/

If Favre comes back....

We have no holes. All that stuff is a myth.

This team is pumped and ready. The old me would have been concerned that the OL will (for the 4th year in a row), start off slow and play horribly for unexplained reasons, but I have been assured by the true football minds here that this is no longer the case, and I believe them. They are never wrong.

My prediction for 2010 is 14-2, with a 1st round bye and a Super Bowl berth. Anything less will be a major disappointment.

I've sent you some kool-aid by PM, Woody, DRINK UP! We're bowl bound baby!

Yeah retailguy!

A lot of the fellas and I expect gals as well are pretty reved up at PackerRats Re: the teams real chances this season. I havn*t spent alot of time here the past year especially in the off season. I*ll likely play Pro Pickem again this season as I love that activity and it keeps my head in the game as more than the casual NFL fan.

I was here for a visit yesterday. Havn*t checked PMs and will do Packer buddy.

GO PACK GO! :D

[woodbuck27]

If we end up with the number 1 defense in the league this season, then the Lombardi is ours.

If we end up with a top 10 defense the Lombardi ought to be ours. There really aren't any legitimate excuses left for this team not to win it all.

No. We have special weaknesses.

The Packer brass and coaching staff have to get a better balance on D. We need a better pass rush and some decent STs esp. in terms of punting.

Can we expect Charles Woodson to continue with a similiar performance as he had last season and the status of ** Al Harris and his general consistency are factors that could hurt the pack on defense. We have to get ahead of the Vikings and that is a key to Packer success this season.

** http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/03/packers-cb-harris-injury-was-very-rare/

If Favre comes back....

We have no holes. All that stuff is a myth.

This team is pumped and ready. The old me would have been concerned that the OL will (for the 4th year in a row), start off slow and play horribly for unexplained reasons, but I have been assured by the true football minds here that this is no longer the case, and I believe them. They are never wrong.

My prediction for 2010 is 14-2, with a 1st round bye and a Super Bowl berth. Anything less will be a major disappointment.

I've sent you some kool-aid by PM, Woody, DRINK UP! We're bowl bound baby!

SOMEHOW... this is a double post...sorry about that.... woodbuck27

Yeah retailguy!

A lot of the fellas and I expect gals as well are pretty reved up at PackerRats Re: the teams real chances this season. I havn*t spent alot of time here the past year especially in the off season. I*ll likely play Pro Pickem again this season as I love that activity and it keeps my head in the game as more than the casual NFL fan.

I was here for a visit yesterday. Havn*t checked PMs and will do Packer buddy.

GO PACK GO! :D

[woodbuck27]

If we end up with the number 1 defense in the league this season, then the Lombardi is ours.

If we end up with a top 10 defense the Lombardi ought to be ours. There really aren't any legitimate excuses left for this team not to win it all.

No. We have special weaknesses.

The Packer brass and coaching staff have to get a better balance on D. We need a better pass rush and some decent STs esp. in terms of punting.

Can we expect Charles Woodson to continue with a similiar performance as he had last season and the status of ** Al Harris and his general consistency are factors that could hurt the pack on defense. We have to get ahead of the Vikings and that is a key to Packer success this season.

** http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/03/packers-cb-harris-injury-was-very-rare/

If Favre comes back....

We have no holes. All that stuff is a myth.

This team is pumped and ready. The old me would have been concerned that the OL will (for the 4th year in a row), start off slow and play horribly for unexplained reasons, but I have been assured by the true football minds here that this is no longer the case, and I believe them. They are never wrong.

My prediction for 2010 is 14-2, with a 1st round bye and a Super Bowl berth. Anything less will be a major disappointment.

I've sent you some kool-aid by PM, Woody, DRINK UP! We're bowl bound baby!

Who are you and what have you done with RG? (and do you know anything about rhetorical criticism and its role among research methodologies? I'm writing a paper and I'm stuck.)

And MJZiggy your acting like a ....

Well what does that post mean MJ....maybe I just read you too wrong ... mmmmm. :?: