CJ Wilson

[wist43]

Can this guy stand up??? Use him as a "hybrid", ala Woodley...

I know he's listed at 288 lbs... but he seems to have some natural pass rush, that looks like it might translate well to being a rush LB on passing downs.

I know it's a bit of a stretch, but from what I've seen of the guy... it might be possible.

I definitely see him as a big upgrade over Montegomery.

[Joemailman]

Well, they're maybe doing some of that with Jenkins this year, so it might be a possibility in the future. I doubt you'll see it from Wilson this year though. If he does weell, he could be a replacement for Cullen Jenkins who is entering the last year of his contract.

[wist43]

Don't see it as even being a possibility with Jenkins - just as I didn't see it with Montgomery and Kampman.

Wilson on the other hand, is a bit shorter than those guys; is very quick twitch for his size; redirects pretty well... He might be too big to do it, but from what I've seen of him on film, I'd at least give him a look there.

If we are to have a chance to advance this year, we have to find a way to generate more pass rush.

[Gunakor]

The problem with our pass rush last year was a lack of pressure from up the middle. Now that Raji has been named starter at the nose I'm very hopeful that the inside pass rush will be much improved. With no way for the QB to step up in the pocket, I'm sure Matthews and Jones will be more than adequate providing pressure from the outside. I don't think we need to convert any more DE's into OLB's.

[bobblehead]

Don't see it as even being a possibility with Jenkins - just as I didn't see it with Montgomery and Kampman.

Wilson on the other hand, is a bit shorter than those guys; is very quick twitch for his size; redirects pretty well... He might be too big to do it, but from what I've seen of him on film, I'd at least give him a look there.

If we are to have a chance to advance this year, we have to find a way to generate more pass rush.

I would almost garauntee Jenkins is a much better "quick twitch" athlete than CJ Wilson. Jenkins is a freak athletically. And that goes even if you mean the Rangers pitcher.

[RashanGary]

I've watched a little bit of Wilson. I don't know if I saw him redirecting much, but the highlights I saw, I saw a type of game speed that is unusual for a guy his size.

I don't know if he'll be able to play the run like a 3-4 DE. I don't know if he'll be able to drop or play very well in open space like a 3-4 LB. I don't know if he'll be able to beat OT's from the 5-tech because he won't be able to use his speed.

Watching him on tape, the one thing he had that I don't think was a mirage was his ability to rush the passer from the edge. The way he played in college, I don't know if it means much, but it looks to me like his best spot is as a 4-3 DE, particularly a pass rushing one.

[packers11]

oppps wrong thread

[mission]

Don't see it as even being a possibility with Jenkins - just as I didn't see it with Montgomery and Kampman.

Wilson on the other hand, is a bit shorter than those guys; is very quick twitch for his size; redirects pretty well... He might be too big to do it, but from what I've seen of him on film, I'd at least give him a look there.

If we are to have a chance to advance this year, we have to find a way to generate more pass rush.

I would almost garauntee Jenkins is a much better "quick twitch" athlete than CJ Wilson. Jenkins is a freak athletically. And that goes even if you mean the Rangers pitcher.

I disagree with this completely... Jenkins is quick for his size but still a DL type of guy. I think that was obvious during the Pittsburgh game.

I know the level of competition is completely different but watch some CJ Wilson youtube highlights. He plays the game differently than you would expect. Much more explosiveness. I've never seen Jenkins drive through guys on tackles like this kid does. Not to say he even makes the team, but Wilson has a very unique skillset.

[wist43]

Don't see it as even being a possibility with Jenkins - just as I didn't see it with Montgomery and Kampman.

Wilson on the other hand, is a bit shorter than those guys; is very quick twitch for his size; redirects pretty well... He might be too big to do it, but from what I've seen of him on film, I'd at least give him a look there.

If we are to have a chance to advance this year, we have to find a way to generate more pass rush.

I would almost garauntee Jenkins is a much better "quick twitch" athlete than CJ Wilson. Jenkins is a freak athletically. And that goes even if you mean the Rangers pitcher.

I disagree with this completely... Jenkins is quick for his size but still a DL type of guy. I think that was obvious during the Pittsburgh game.

I know the level of competition is completely different but watch some CJ Wilson youtube highlights. He plays the game differently than you would expect. Much more explosiveness. I've never seen Jenkins drive through guys on tackles like this kid does. Not to say he even makes the team, but Wilson has a very unique skillset.

I agree... I see Jenkins as strictly a DL, and a damn good one at that.

Wilson on the other hand looks like he could have the speed and movement skills necessary to stand up, and come off the ball as a rover... I really liked what I saw of him on stunts.

From what little I've seen of him, he seems to have more upside than I thought he did.

[bobblehead]

Don't see it as even being a possibility with Jenkins - just as I didn't see it with Montgomery and Kampman.

Wilson on the other hand, is a bit shorter than those guys; is very quick twitch for his size; redirects pretty well... He might be too big to do it, but from what I've seen of him on film, I'd at least give him a look there.

If we are to have a chance to advance this year, we have to find a way to generate more pass rush.

I would almost garauntee Jenkins is a much better "quick twitch" athlete than CJ Wilson. Jenkins is a freak athletically. And that goes even if you mean the Rangers pitcher.

I disagree with this completely... Jenkins is quick for his size but still a DL type of guy. I think that was obvious during the Pittsburgh game.

I know the level of competition is completely different but watch some CJ Wilson youtube highlights. He plays the game differently than you would expect. Much more explosiveness. I've never seen Jenkins drive through guys on tackles like this kid does. Not to say he even makes the team, but Wilson has a very unique skillset.

I agree... I see Jenkins as strictly a DL, and a damn good one at that.

Wilson on the other hand looks like he could have the speed and movement skills necessary to stand up, and come off the ball as a rover... I really liked what I saw of him on stunts.

From what little I've seen of him, he seems to have more upside than I thought he did.

I have to admit I haven't seen a lot of Wilson, but before I put him in Jenkins class, I would like to see them both at a similar weight. Jenkins is over 300 lbs. and moves like a guy much smaller. I would actually LOVE to see him slim down to 275 and try to be an OLB....but that isn't going to happen at this point in his career. Thats something you do to a guy who has failed at his position, not someone like Jenkins because you think he might dominate.

[retailguy]

After reading this thread, I have concluded that it is springtime.

Odds are against this guy even making the roster.

[Joemailman]

Wake Up RG! It's summer!

I disagree with you about Wilson. I think his chances of making the team are pretty good because of his pass rush ability. I know he's a 7th round pick, but why he lasted that long is kind of a mystery. He was expected to be a 3-4 round pick. I think he probably has more natural ability than Jarius Wynn, and that will probably be one of the big battles in camp.

[3irty1]

If Wilson sticks it will be in a Jarius Wynn type roll. Sliding Jenkins around and getting all these big 4-3 type DEs tells me one of two things:

1. Brad Jones isn't very good. We could be making the shift to a 3-3 as our base pass defense like we had last year with Kampman in order to take Jones off the field.

2. Wynn is very good. He impressed last year and has natural pass rush ability from the edge. If he took big steps a 3-3 pass defense could still make sense.

[Gunakor]

I'm sure we'll be lining up in plenty of 3-3 nickel formations on defense. Many 3-4 teams do, and Dom has a tendency to show a myriad of different looks throughout the season.

If and when we do go to a 3-3 nickel look for pass defense I'm betting it's Chillar that mans that other OLB spot, as he's one of the better cover LB's we have atm and has some (albiet limited) pass rush ability. He's started at OLB in 3 LB sets before so there will be familiarity for him there. I doubt very highly we'll be rushing 5 very often from a 3-3, so I don't think we'll have converted DE's standing up from that look. It would be a dead giveaway where the rush is coming from.

Honestly, though, I'd rather not think about Kampman as an OLB last season and pretend that's what we should do again this year. Jones outperformed Kampman last year given about the same amount of starting time at OLB. He's a natural 3-4 OLB which gives him an advantage over any converted 4-3 DE. He'll outperform any other converts again this year. I'm happy with Jones as our starter, and he's only going to get better.

[retailguy]

Wake Up RG! It's summer!

I disagree with you about Wilson. I think his chances of making the team are pretty good because of his pass rush ability. I know he's a 7th round pick, but why he lasted that long is kind of a mystery. He was expected to be a 3-4 round pick. I think he probably has more natural ability than Jarius Wynn, and that will probably be one of the big battles in camp.

I know what the calendar says, but based on the kool-aid flow in here it's still springtime. :P

Wilson could stick, I don't deny that, but he's got longer odds than you think.

If we start getting rid of guys that really don't fit the system IE - Poppinga & Bishop, then he'll be around most likely, but there is no indication of that happening at this point.

[retailguy]

If Wilson sticks it will be in a Jarius Wynn type roll. Sliding Jenkins around and getting all these big 4-3 type DEs tells me one of two things:

1. Brad Jones isn't very good. We could be making the shift to a 3-3 as our base pass defense like we had last year with Kampman in order to take Jones off the field.

2. Wynn is very good. He impressed last year and has natural pass rush ability from the edge. If he took big steps a 3-3 pass defense could still make sense.

I don't agree on Jones. I think he's fine. Not every player has to go to the pro bowl to be a quality player.

Jones needs to make a jump in the second year as part of his normal progression. If he does, he'll be far more than adequate. If he doesn't, he'll be a stopgap until they find someone else.

I can't comment on Wynn, haven't seen him play much and don't know a damn thing about him.

[wist43]

I like Jones well enough... don't know what his ceiling is though. He leveled off as the season wore on - so, was that who he is as a player???

... or, did he hit the rookie wall, his legs went dead, and with an offseason of being in an NFL program, we can expect him to progress and improve to where we can view him as a starter and a playmaker??? I don't know the answer to that.

As for Wilson... I'd at least take a look at him in sub packages coming off the edge from OLB; don't need to play him there full time - you can vary your pass rush packages - just give him some opportunities from LB, and see how he does. He's listed at 288 lbs, but is he really that big?? Kirkland and played LB at 270, and Woodley is listed at 265. Kind of reminds me of a bigger Keith McKenzie.

[RashanGary]

I'd like to see him get a couple chances to rush the edge too, Wist. I don't like him as a full time OLB. Ideally he's a 4-3 DE, but since we play the 3-4 and the OLBs rush the edge, I think it would be nice to at least get a peak of him coming off the edge, especially on the right side of the offense, where I think in certain matchups he'll actually be fast enough to pressure the edge and then he can set up several power moves too.

He seems to have a unique skillset. Some guys will be able to block him, but I think with his strength/speed ratio, he could give some tackles fits.

[bobblehead]

Are any of you guys commenting on Brad Jones even aware that the dude got 4 sacks in the last 5 games?

[retailguy]

Are any of you guys commenting on Brad Jones even aware that the dude got 4 sacks in the last 5 games?

Yup, that's true. But there were a lot of mental breakdowns on those plays where he didn't get a sack, and further, was exploited big time, in the playoff game.

Whisenhunt's defense made him look like the rookie he was.

I think he played very well in the time he was given. I think he played very well and adequately replaced Kampman when he went down. But, he needs to play more consistently too.

I'm not down on him at all. Quite the opposite. I really like him. But if he plateaus where he left off last season, that won't be a good thing, notwithstanding the 4 sacks he managed to achieve in the process.

[RashanGary]

Are any of you guys commenting on Brad Jones even aware that the dude got 4 sacks in the last 5 games?


Jones was another guy, I don't know if anyone remembers, but he had some impressive pass rush tape of him at Colorado. He played solid football last year. He's a prospect that I'm glad to have on our team. No guarantees, but he has a chance to be the next GB 7th round gem.

[3irty1]

I'm sure we'll be lining up in plenty of 3-3 nickel formations on defense. Many 3-4 teams do, and Dom has a tendency to show a myriad of different looks throughout the season.

If and when we do go to a 3-3 nickel look for pass defense I'm betting it's Chillar that mans that other OLB spot, as he's one of the better cover LB's we have atm and has some (albiet limited) pass rush ability. He's started at OLB in 3 LB sets before so there will be familiarity for him there. I doubt very highly we'll be rushing 5 very often from a 3-3, so I don't think we'll have converted DE's standing up from that look. It would be a dead giveaway where the rush is coming from.

Honestly, though, I'd rather not think about Kampman as an OLB last season and pretend that's what we should do again this year. Jones outperformed Kampman last year given about the same amount of starting time at OLB. He's a natural 3-4 OLB which gives him an advantage over any converted 4-3 DE. He'll outperform any other converts again this year. I'm happy with Jones as our starter, and he's only going to get better.

When we were in a 3-3 last year Kampman was lined up at DE. The formation looked something like this:

Kampman........Pickett.......Jenkins
.................................................. ......Mathews
...........Barnett...........Hawk


If the coaching staff didn't have confidence in Jones or just had more confidence in Wynn they could justify taking Jones off the field in the 2-4 and going back to a 3-3 as a base pass D. There was talk about Jenkins taking reps on the left. This is significant because it would make him an edge rusher opposite of Mathews in a 3-3 set. Wynn and Wilson will probably try to fill a similar roll.

[Gunakor]

Our 3-3 this year will probably look like this:

Jenkins...........Raji............Pickett
.................................................. ..Matthews
..........Chillar.........Barnett

I just don't see us using this as our base pass D. Jones doesn't look like the fish out of water that Kampman looked like last year at OLB.

..............Raji.............Pickett
Jones......................................Matthew s
..........Chillar................Barnett

That's what I think our base pass D will look like. Certainly we will show different looks, but this should be our base. It creates deception - are we rushing 3, or 4? Which side is it coming from? Could we be sending Chillar or Barnett on a rush up the middle while dropping Jones into coverage? Maybe we send 5? So many things to consider, and the play clock is ticking.

It's different from using Kampy from that formation, because a) Kampy was awful in coverage, and b) Kampy wasn't the same pass rusher standing up. Jones was and is simply better than Kampman at OLB, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the field at OLB more often than Kampy was. The 2-4 should work with the personnel we have.

As far as Wynn and Wilson are concerned, don't forget they're fighting with Mike Neal for PT too. And if Johnny Jolly somehow makes it onto our gameday roster this year, Wynn and Wilson probably won't see much PT at all.

[mission]

You think Brad Jones *isn't* very good, but Jarius Wynn *is* "very good"?

Hard to read much beyond that... :o

[3irty1]

You think Brad Jones *isn't* very good, but Jarius Wynn *is* "very good"?

Hard to read much beyond that... :o

Well you should because that's not what I said. The moves the coaching staff is making lead me to believe they are either high on Wynn or low on Jones.

[mission]

The moves the coaching staff is making lead me to believe they are either high on Wynn or low on Jones.

I guess that hasn't been my impression from reading anything this offseason... any links or quotes or anything that has you thinking that? It's possible I've missed something. I've always thought of Wynn as more of a Montgomery type -- not much ceiling.

[3irty1]

Our 3-3 this year will probably look like this:

Jenkins...........Raji............Pickett
.................................................. ..Matthews
..........Chillar.........Barnett

I just don't see us using this as our base pass D. Jones doesn't look like the fish out of water that Kampman looked like last year at OLB.

..............Raji.............Pickett
Jones......................................Matthew s
..........Chillar................Barnett

That's what I think our base pass D will look like. Certainly we will show different looks, but this should be our base. It creates deception - are we rushing 3, or 4? Which side is it coming from? Could we be sending Chillar or Barnett on a rush up the middle while dropping Jones into coverage? Maybe we send 5? So many things to consider, and the play clock is ticking.

It's different from using Kampy from that formation, because a) Kampy was awful in coverage, and b) Kampy wasn't the same pass rusher standing up. Jones was and is simply better than Kampman at OLB, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him on the field at OLB more often than Kampy was. The 2-4 should work with the personnel we have.

As far as Wynn and Wilson are concerned, don't forget they're fighting with Mike Neal for PT too. And if Johnny Jolly somehow makes it onto our gameday roster this year, Wynn and Wilson probably won't see much PT at all.

Our base pass D was the 3-3 when Kampman was the starter. In this formation Kampman played DE not OLB. He'd rush almost exclusively and never standing up. Jenkins/Wynn/Wilson will likely be replacing him should we begin using the 3-3 as our base pass D again. Capers did the same thing when he was in Miami.

Ultimately the scheme will be chosen by matchups and what gets the best players on the field but with the moves the coaching staff is making it seems like they have more confidence in a 3-3 without Jones than a 2-4 with Jones. If they are preferring a 3-3 it must be because of all the edge rushing talent they think they have in Jenkins, Wynn, and Wilson or because they don't feel comfortable giving Jones all those reps in every subpackage.

If either Jones or Wynn/Wilson turn out to be too good to take off the field then the Packers are a better team for it. Personally I'm rooting for Jones. I hope all this 3-3 preparation is just because they know they have no OLB backups and should CMIII or Jones go down, we'll need a backup plan. No matter what base pass D we play I'd bet that Hawk will find a way into it. For the second half of last season Hawk was the better of the two.

[Joemailman]

If Wilson sticks it will be in a Jarius Wynn type roll. Sliding Jenkins around and getting all these big 4-3 type DEs tells me one of two things:

1. Brad Jones isn't very good. We could be making the shift to a 3-3 as our base pass defense like we had last year with Kampman in order to take Jones off the field.

2. Wynn is very good. He impressed last year and has natural pass rush ability from the edge. If he took big steps a 3-3 pass defense could still make sense.

I have a slightly different take. If Harrell is healthy, (I know, a huge if), and if Jolly stays out of jail, the Packers talent on the DL is better than at LB. If they can find someone on the DL who can fill in some at LB, they may keep an extra D-Lineman on the roster, and 1 fewer player at LB. They'd rather cut a guy like Poppinga than cut a guy like Wilson.

[3irty1]

If Wilson sticks it will be in a Jarius Wynn type roll. Sliding Jenkins around and getting all these big 4-3 type DEs tells me one of two things:

1. Brad Jones isn't very good. We could be making the shift to a 3-3 as our base pass defense like we had last year with Kampman in order to take Jones off the field.

2. Wynn is very good. He impressed last year and has natural pass rush ability from the edge. If he took big steps a 3-3 pass defense could still make sense.

I have a slightly different take. If Harrell is healthy, (I know, a huge if), and if Jolly stays out of jail, the Packers talent on the DL is better than at LB. If they can find someone on the DL who can fill in some at LB, they may keep an extra D-Lineman on the roster, and 1 fewer player at LB. They'd rather cut a guy like Poppinga than cut a guy like Wilson.

Really I forgot about option 3:

3. They know that the OLB depth sucks. If something would happen to either Brad Jones or CMIII the defense would need to switch the base pass D to a 3-3 because of lack of depth.

[Smidgeon]

..............Raji.............Pickett
Jones......................................Matthew s
..........Chillar................Barnett

That's what I think our base pass D will look like. Certainly we will show different looks, but this should be our base.

I don't think Chillar will replace Hawk in the base. They don't even play the same position. As far as I understand, the two ILBs are not interchangeable. One takes on the blockers and linemen that get past the D-Line (and as gravy is supposed to shed blocks and tackle) and the other is supposed to run free and clean up behind him. (If I have that wrong, someone correct me.)

Chiller plays the same position Barnett does. Hawk is the bouncer in front who takes on lead blocks and linemen that get free from the D-Line. And he's a reliable one. Do you want Chiller--whose strengths are allegedly pass rush and coverage (I'm no scout, thus the allegedly)--taking on lead blockers and linemen?

[RashanGary]

I agree with Gunakor about the linebackers, but I think Jenkins will be the other lineman, not Pickett.


That is our nickle defense, not our base. The main goal of nickle is to stop the pass. Chillar is not only a better coverage player, he's also a better blitzer. He would be a lot better than Hawk in that alignment as stopping the run is of much lesser concern in this defense. Chillar is taylor made for that position.

If Raji and Jones show improved pass rush this year, I actually think our pass defense can become a strength.

[Smidgeon]

I agree with Gunakor about the linebackers, but I think Jenkins will be the other lineman, not Pickett.


That is our nickle defense, not our base. The main goal of nickle is to stop the pass. Chillar is not only a better coverage player, he's also a better blitzer. He would be a lot better than Hawk in that alignment as stopping the run is of much lesser concern in this defense. Chillar is taylor made for that position.

If Raji and Jones show improved pass rush this year, I actually think our pass defense can become a strength.

In nickel, sure, use Chiller instead since it's likely a passing down instead of a running one. But he said that was his prediction for the base. Unless that's what you're agreeing with?

[RashanGary]

He said, "base pass defense", which is another way of saying our standard "nickle". There was other context that lead me to that conclusion, namely that he only had 2 DL and 4 LB's (meaning we had 5 DB's).

I'm pretty sure he was talking nickle, but Gun would have to answer to that.


That version of nickle would probably be our base pass defense, well except that Jenkins is almost surely going to be in it and Pickett almost surely out.

[mraynrand]

Just no more 'Big Oakie.' Offenses figured that out and Chillar got exposed big time.

[Gunakor]

I agree with Gunakor about the linebackers, but I think Jenkins will be the other lineman, not Pickett.


That is our nickle defense, not our base. The main goal of nickle is to stop the pass. Chillar is not only a better coverage player, he's also a better blitzer. He would be a lot better than Hawk in that alignment as stopping the run is of much lesser concern in this defense. Chillar is taylor made for that position.

If Raji and Jones show improved pass rush this year, I actually think our pass defense can become a strength.

In nickel, sure, use Chiller instead since it's likely a passing down instead of a running one. But he said that was his prediction for the base. Unless that's what you're agreeing with?

I said base PASS defense. Besides, look at the formation. There's only 6 in the box. 5 DB's. That, by definition, is nickel.

EDIT: JH answered earlier, didn't read it. My apologies for the redundant answer.

[Gunakor]

That version of nickle would probably be our base pass defense, well except that Jenkins is almost surely going to be in it and Pickett almost surely out.

Possibly. But if they're comfortable moving Pickett out on the end in a base 3-4, you never know. He'd be lining up on Matthews' side of the ball. Since all he has to do is get a little bit of push to keep the QB from stepping up I could see him in there and playing effectively in nickel.

[Smidgeon]

You're right. I didn't see the "pass" part in the "base pass defense". Comment formerly withdrawn.