Mason Crosby

[pbmax]

So the Packers have a kicker with all the talent in the world and who seems to be level headed and mentally strong. He is inconsistent, however and has definite problems from the right hash mark.

The Packers answer to the problem appears to be to give him two new holders to work with. Because that will make everything better. Of the many questionable things this team does, many of which we may not get the whole story on, this seems to be inexcusable since Flynn has done this well before. Now if the Australian is going to be the punter, I can see needing to get him some work. But not two new guys round the clock. How is he supposed to improve when he spends his time correcting the holders?

I mean its not like dysfunction in this unit has ever cost the team a game.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Crosby is just not accurate IMO. Can keep blaming holders, but could it be that he is just not that good?

[pbmax]

Crosby is just not accurate IMO. Can keep blaming holders, but could it be that he is just not that good?
Perhaps, but since they brought in no competition and are counting on him, the Packers seem to think its correctable. What is amazing is that they seem content to keep interfering with that correction.

According to many Twitterers and bloggers, McCarthy has been coming down harder in camp on penalties. Maybe he has finally learned that lesson. But he doesn't seem to have learned how to overcome the obstacles in his kicking game.

[packerbacker1234]

IT is a serious problem, especially from the right hash mark. Sure, some of that is on the holder at times because it has to be just right, but at some point the packers need to realize that crosby may have to alter the way he strikes the ball to gain more accuracy. IF that means he loses a tad of distance to do that, fine. He still has his old stroke for those 50+'s, but he should learn a new way to hit the ball for accuracy so those 45 and in become almost atomatic.

Thing is, the packers seem convinced Crosby isn't the problem. It's been interesting.

[Tony Oday]

They need to bring in competition and have the new kid beat Crosby out. He is a liability.

[imscott72]

I'm very worried about Mason. I was hoping he would come to camp and have shaken off last year's problems, but they're there again. I think we need to bring somebody in.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

They need to bring in competition and have the new kid beat Crosby out. He is a liability.

I agree with this. A kicker is paid to make kicks. If he doesn't he is not good enough. I didn't care that Longwell left years back, but I actually have missed him kicking field goals for us. If it is under 45 yards you could count on the guy.

Crosby makes me nervous from 35 yards. I just don't think he is good enough.

[Fritz]

I'm willing to give him this training camp and a few games. He keeps missing right, I'd start cutting a finger of his right hand off with each miss.

[Tony Oday]

I cant believe this guy gets a freaking pass! I mean if this was another position we would be ALL up in arms to replace Mason.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I'm willing to give him this training camp and a few games. He keeps missing right, I'd start cutting a finger of his right hand off with each miss.

Fans should be coaches I swear :)

[Patler]

Crosby has kicked in 48 regular season games, 12 preseason games and 1 playoff game. In those 61 games he has had 3 long snappers and 6 different holders. Now he is working with two more new ones. In previous TCs he has worked with at least two others that I can think of on a regular basis. At least 10 different holders in 3 years. Not one of his holders had significant NFL experience as a holder, and I think only Flynn and Frost had significant experience in college. After Davis, his long snappers were rookies when they came on board. That borders on the ridiculous when you factor in that Crosby himself is just learning the NFL game.

Crosby has as many 50+ yard attempts in 3 seasons as Longwell had in his first 8 seasons. That has impacted his overall percentage, going 8/17 (including the 66 yarder, or whatever it was, a couple years ago). Longwell was 9/17, but rarely tried anything even as long as 55.

Even with his struggles last year, and the "short" misses, Crosby is over 80% on kicks under 50 yards. His statistical problem is that every sixth kick he tries is one that he has no better than about a 50/50 chance of making. Crosby has 109 attempts, with 17 from 50+. Longwell had 250 attempts in the 8 seasons it took him to have 17 attempts at 50+. If Crosby was 4/8 on 50-59 yarders instead of 8/16 and 0/1 on 60+ yarders, his career percentage would be above the magic number of 80% and no one would be talking about it.

Yes, Crosby missed a couple last year that he should have made, and we all remember those vividly. Every kicker misses some he shouldn't from time to time. Crosby has also made a few big ones in his short career already. Longwell didn't make a game winning kick for a quite a few years early in his career. Not a single one. It was a constant knock on him. But he became automatic after a while.

Crosby needs experience and consistency to develop a comfort zone. He has had no opportunity for that so far. Kinda makes you wish they had kept Jon Ryan, who seemed to be getting pretty good at holding, pulling in some bad snaps his last season in GB. Crosby, Ryan and Goode could have developed a close working relationship by now.

[Tony Oday]

Crosby has kicked in 48 regular season games, 12 preseason games and 1 playoff game. In those 61 games he has had 3 long snappers and 6 different holders. Now he is working with two more new ones. In previous TCs he has worked with at least two others that I can think of on a regular basis. At least 10 different holders in 3 years. Not one of his holders had significant NFL experience as a holder, and I think only Flynn and Frost had significant experience in college. After Davis, his long snappers were rookies when they came on board. That borders on the ridiculous when you factor in that Crosby himself is just learning the NFL game.

Crosby has as many 50+ yard attempts in 3 seasons as Longwell had in his first 8 seasons. That has impacted his overall percentage, going 8/17 (including the 66 yarder, or whatever it was, a couple years ago). Longwell was 9/17, but rarely tried anything even as long as 55.

Even with his struggles last year, and the "short" misses, Crosby is over 80% on kicks under 50 yards. His statistical problem is that every sixth kick he tries is one that he has no better than about a 50/50 chance of making. Crosby has 109 attempts, with 17 from 50+. Longwell had 250 attempts in the 8 seasons it took him to have 17 attempts at 50+. If Crosby was 4/8 on 51-60 yarders instead of 8/16 and 0/1 on 60-70 yarders, his career percentage would be above the magic number of 80% and no one would be talking about it.

Yes, Crosby missed a couple last year that he should have made, and we all remember those vividly. Every kicker misses some he shouldn't from time to time. Crosby has also made a few big ones in his short career already. Longwell didn't make a game winning kick for a quite a few years early in his career. Not a single one. It was a constant knock on him. But he became automatic after a while.

Crosby needs experience and consistency to develop a comfort zone. He has had no opportunity for that so far. Kinda makes you wish they had kept Jon Ryan, who seemed to be getting pretty good at holding, pulling in some bad snaps his last season in GB. Crosby, Ryan and Goode could have developed a close working relationship by now.

AT the risk of being Patlerized how many other kickers have this same thing happen to them but don't fold?

[Fritz]

But if you start cutting off fingers on his right hand you'll lighten him up over on that side and his leg will swing better and truer and he won't miss right.

[Tony Oday]

But if you start cutting off fingers on his right hand you'll lighten him up over on that side and his leg will swing better and truer and he won't miss right.

I never said that was a bad idea ;)

[Patler]

AT the risk of being Patlerized how many other kickers have this same thing happen to them but don't fold?

I doubt very many worked with 10 different holders (5 in games that count) and 3 different snappers in 3 years and 1 week, especially in their first three years of their careers as they try to learn the game as well.

I don't think Crosby has folded at all. As I mentioned, even with all the change, he is above 80% on kicks less than 50 yards (77/92 - 83.70%). With so few career attempts, a couple bobbled snaps or poor placements make a huge difference even in that percentage.

All in all, if they would quit running him out there for so many attempts beyond 50 yards, no one wold be talking about his low percentage.

Can you imagine what Longwell would have had to say if he was given 10 different holders to work with in basically 3 seasons?

[Tony Oday]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStats?div=NFL&table=kicking&stat=kickFg&dir=descending

He is 25th in accuracy and was 2/6 in 50+...though he did try a 66 yarder right so call that 2/5. He is not a top 10 kicker therefore we should look for a replacement. Hell that is the reason people want to get rid of Ryan Grant.

[retailguy]

Crosby has kicked in 48 regular season games, 12 preseason games and 1 playoff game. In those 61 games he has had 3 long snappers and 6 different holders. Now he is working with two more new ones. In previous TCs he has worked with at least two others that I can think of on a regular basis. At least 10 different holders in 3 years. Not one of his holders had significant NFL experience as a holder, and I think only Flynn and Frost had significant experience in college. After Davis, his long snappers were rookies when they came on board. That borders on the ridiculous when you factor in that Crosby himself is just learning the NFL game.

Crosby has as many 50+ yard attempts in 3 seasons as Longwell had in his first 8 seasons. That has impacted his overall percentage, going 8/17 (including the 66 yarder, or whatever it was, a couple years ago). Longwell was 9/17, but rarely tried anything even as long as 55.

Even with his struggles last year, and the "short" misses, Crosby is over 80% on kicks under 50 yards. His statistical problem is that every sixth kick he tries is one that he has no better than about a 50/50 chance of making. Crosby has 109 attempts, with 17 from 50+. Longwell had 250 attempts in the 8 seasons it took him to have 17 attempts at 50+. If Crosby was 4/8 on 50-59 yarders instead of 8/16 and 0/1 on 60+ yarders, his career percentage would be above the magic number of 80% and no one would be talking about it.

Yes, Crosby missed a couple last year that he should have made, and we all remember those vividly. Every kicker misses some he shouldn't from time to time. Crosby has also made a few big ones in his short career already. Longwell didn't make a game winning kick for a quite a few years early in his career. Not a single one. It was a constant knock on him. But he became automatic after a while.

Crosby needs experience and consistency to develop a comfort zone. He has had no opportunity for that so far. Kinda makes you wish they had kept Jon Ryan, who seemed to be getting pretty good at holding, pulling in some bad snaps his last season in GB. Crosby, Ryan and Goode could have developed a close working relationship by now.

Now don't go bringing FACTS into this discussion! They need a good villian! And besides it takes the focus off the PUNTER. :evil: :wink:

[red]

fuck me if i'm wrong, but didn't the packers coaches slam the door on him when he wanted to get outside help to fix his problem?

i think i recall crosby wanting to go work with a kicking specialist on the right hash problem, but slocum or slowick, or whoever the the slap ass special teams coach is, said that he would have none of it and he would fix the problem

this happened right, and it wasn't just some dream?

IMO, we have a very good young kicker who developed a case of the shanks last year and is being forced to deal with it without professional help, so he's become a complete mess.

you don't cut a kicker that is as good as him, even with the shanks he is one of the better kickers in the nfl. let him get his head back on straight and things should get better

[red]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStats?div=NFL&table=kicking&stat=kickFg&dir=descending

He is 25th in accuracy and was 2/6 in 50+...though he did try a 66 yarder right so call that 2/5. He is not a top 10 kicker therefore we should look for a replacement. Hell that is the reason people want to get rid of Ryan Grant.

look at that guy that is #2 on that list. didn't we cut him or let him walk because he also wasn't accurate enough?

i remember at the time thinking good riddance when he signed with the queens

[Brandon494]

Im getting tired of Crosby, yea he has a hell of a leg but would you trust him to make a game winning field goal? Because I sure as hell don't.

[Tony Oday]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStats?div=NFL&table=kicking&stat=kickFg&dir=descending

He is 25th in accuracy and was 2/6 in 50+...though he did try a 66 yarder right so call that 2/5. He is not a top 10 kicker therefore we should look for a replacement. Hell that is the reason people want to get rid of Ryan Grant.

look at that guy that is #2 on that list. didn't we cut him or let him walk because he also wasn't accurate enough?

i remember at the time thinking good riddance when he signed with the queens

Then you were wrong as you are now defending a mediocre kicker

[Freak Out]

I say we bring Favre in to hold for him.....that way he gets his chance to win another ring. :)

[pbmax]

But if you start cutting off fingers on his right hand you'll lighten him up over on that side and his leg will swing better and truer and he won't miss right.
Don't start explaining, it made sense the first time.

[pbmax]

Crosby has kicked in 48 regular season games, 12 preseason games and 1 playoff game. In those 61 games he has had 3 long snappers and 6 different holders. Now he is working with two more new ones. In previous TCs he has worked with at least two others that I can think of on a regular basis. At least 10 different holders in 3 years. Not one of his holders had significant NFL experience as a holder, and I think only Flynn and Frost had significant experience in college. After Davis, his long snappers were rookies when they came on board. That borders on the ridiculous when you factor in that Crosby himself is just learning the NFL game.

Crosby has as many 50+ yard attempts in 3 seasons as Longwell had in his first 8 seasons. That has impacted his overall percentage, going 8/17 (including the 66 yarder, or whatever it was, a couple years ago). Longwell was 9/17, but rarely tried anything even as long as 55.

Even with his struggles last year, and the "short" misses, Crosby is over 80% on kicks under 50 yards. His statistical problem is that every sixth kick he tries is one that he has no better than about a 50/50 chance of making. Crosby has 109 attempts, with 17 from 50+. Longwell had 250 attempts in the 8 seasons it took him to have 17 attempts at 50+. If Crosby was 4/8 on 50-59 yarders instead of 8/16 and 0/1 on 60+ yarders, his career percentage would be above the magic number of 80% and no one would be talking about it.

Yes, Crosby missed a couple last year that he should have made, and we all remember those vividly. Every kicker misses some he shouldn't from time to time. Crosby has also made a few big ones in his short career already. Longwell didn't make a game winning kick for a quite a few years early in his career. Not a single one. It was a constant knock on him. But he became automatic after a while.

Crosby needs experience and consistency to develop a comfort zone. He has had no opportunity for that so far. Kinda makes you wish they had kept Jon Ryan, who seemed to be getting pretty good at holding, pulling in some bad snaps his last season in GB. Crosby, Ryan and Goode could have developed a close working relationship by now.
Just a lovely post. Did you get a cease and desist letter from United Features Syndicate over the avatar?

[falco]

I think Crosby is still the man, but I'm surprised they didn't bring in competition to push him.

[Tony Oday]

he's a sub 80% kicker. The good kickers in the NFL are +80% EVEN WITH the 50+ yard attempts. I hope he is the man but I dont think he is and he SHOULD have competition.

[The Leaper]

Good kickers in the NFL often play in domes and in warm weather climates.

Crosby's accuracy issues are a concern, but not enough to toss the guy away yet. Kickers often take 4-5 years to gain a true comfort level for the league...the K balls, the different stadiums, long snappers/holders, etc. We've already seen what can happen when you let a guy go who is young...they wind up blossoming elsewhere.

Our special teams overall have been a major concern for the last 2-3 years, and I lay the blame for that on the coaching staff. I think Crosby's issues are more a result of ineptitude with the coaches than anything else.

[red]

he's a sub 80% kicker. The good kickers in the NFL are +80% EVEN WITH the 50+ yard attempts. I hope he is the man but I dont think he is and he SHOULD have competition.

i believe up until last season when he developed the case of the wide rights from the right hash, he was one of if not the most accurate kickers in the league. and based on the fact that leaper just stated that he plays in horrible conditions, it makes what he did in the previous seasons that more amazing

that is why some of us still believe in him. he just didn't miss from inside 50 until the shanks came

[Tony Oday]

Under 80% EVERY year he kicked. Longwell, you remember him, was sub 80% 3 times...I think...one he was HORENDOUS at 60somthing %.

I hope Crosby is the man and is a stud this year and gains his traction.

I dont think he will

I will eat crow if he does

I still cannot believe there is no competition for his job. He is not that good as of yet.

[Patler]

he's a sub 80% kicker. The good kickers in the NFL are +80% EVEN WITH the 50+ yard attempts. I hope he is the man but I dont think he is and he SHOULD have competition.

And how many of those good kickers try 17% of their kicks from 50+ yards? Very few kickers make more than about 50% of those long kicks, and when you try as many as Crosby does, it hurts your overall percentage.

Take my example, if Crosby tried 50+ attempts at a rate anything close to what Longwell did early in his career, and if he made just 50% of them (as he has), he would be over the magical 80% that everyone is making such a big deal of.

[Patler]

Did you get a cease and desist letter from United Features Syndicate over the avatar?

Na, just taking a lower profile. :lol:
Actually, it was a little experiment.

[MJZiggy]

Did you get a cease and desist letter from United Features Syndicate over the avatar?

Na, just taking a lower profile. :lol:
Actually, it was a little experiment.

We noticed. Immediately. Ok?

[Patler]

Did you get a cease and desist letter from United Features Syndicate over the avatar?

Na, just taking a lower profile. :lol:
Actually, it was a little experiment.

We noticed. Immediately. Ok?

I was curious if people respond to names or avatars.

[Tony Oday]

longwell went 50% first three years over 50% career


AND I AGREE ON THE OVER 50+ KICKS

that being said he is NOT that good of a kicker to not have another kicker in camp. He is 75% career kicker between 30-49 yards.

[Patler]

longwell went 50% first three years over 50% career


AND I AGREE ON THE OVER 50+ KICKS

that being said he is NOT that good of a kicker to not have another kicker in camp. He is 75% career kicker between 30-49 yards.

In his first three seasons Longwell was 71/84 under 50 yards.
In his first three seasons Crosby is 74/89 under 50 yards.

Longwell was 2/4 at 50+.
Crosby is 8/17.

I don't see much difference except for the long range kick attempts.

[Tony Oday]

longwell went 50% first three years over 50% career


AND I AGREE ON THE OVER 50+ KICKS

that being said he is NOT that good of a kicker to not have another kicker in camp. He is 75% career kicker between 30-49 yards.

In his first three seasons Longwell was 71/84 under 50 yards.
In his first three seasons Crosby is 74/89 under 50 yards.

Longwell was 2/4 at 50+.
Crosby is 8/17.

I don't see much difference except for the long range kick attempts.

And Lognwell had camp kickers EVERY year. That is what I am saying. I think I just argued it terribly. I think Mason CAN be awesome. I HOPE he is awesome. I don't think he WILL be awesome. I just want the Pack to be the best they can be!

[Patler]

And Lognwell had camp kickers EVERY year. That is what I am saying. I think I just argued it terribly. I think Mason CAN be awesome. I HOPE he is awesome. I don't think he WILL be awesome. I just want the Pack to be the best they can be!

I don't know, did he?
Part of the reason may have been #s. Camp rosters were larger, with NFL-E exemptions. Lots of teams have complained that camp wears out their kickers and punters, but they can't afford roster spots for extras with the lower numbers.

[Tony Oday]

And Lognwell had camp kickers EVERY year. That is what I am saying. I think I just argued it terribly. I think Mason CAN be awesome. I HOPE he is awesome. I don't think he WILL be awesome. I just want the Pack to be the best they can be!

I don't know, did he?
Part of the reason may have been #s. Camp rosters were larger, with NFL-E exemptions. Lots of teams have complained that camp wears out their kickers and punters, but they can't afford roster spots for extras with the lower numbers.

That could be, I just wish at 40 yards this guy would be almost automatic. I mean don't you get that feeling of dread when he goes out when the kick is around a 40 that he is going to miss? I do and I HATE that :) hehe

Alright ENOUGH worrying...90% kick make rate this year!!! WRITE THAT DOWN!!! Hell I can get behind Hawk, Spitz, Wells, Grant and Tramon so F it I can get behind Crosby! :)

[mmmdk]

I'm pretty sure this is the last chance for Crosby in Green Bay; that rookie season is getting further & further away.

[Patler]

I'm pretty sure this is the last chance for Crosby in Green Bay; that rookie season is getting further & further away.

The funny thing is, Crosby's rookie season was the only time he had any stability at all with his holder. He worked mostly with Jon Ryan, spending time with others only to have an emergency backup available. Ryan held for the whole season. In the two seasons and 33 games since then, Crosby has changed snappers twice (not anyone's fault) and has had to work with at least 8 different holders that I can think of.

There was an interesting article from an interview with Capers, during which he discussed how important it was not to waste too many practice reps in camp on players who wouldn't be there. They mentioned the huge number of "wasted reps" in training camp last year on Anthony Smith and Aaron Rouse who were gone a few weeks later. Capers said he wouldn't make that mistake this year.

How many of Crosby's practice reps the last two years have been and are being wasted on inexperienced holders who will not make it as holders and who might not even be on the roster in the first place? The simple fact that he has worked with so many different ones has to indicate a lot of his reps are wasted ones.

[Spaulding]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStats?div=NFL&table=kicking&stat=kickFg&dir=descending

He is 25th in accuracy and was 2/6 in 50+...though he did try a 66 yarder right so call that 2/5. He is not a top 10 kicker therefore we should look for a replacement. Hell that is the reason people want to get rid of Ryan Grant.

That list is subject for debate. Many of the kickers above Crosby have zero, one or two kicks from 50+ and fewer from 40-49. You could easily Argue that Crosby moves up 5-10 spots if the playing field was even. Add to that many of the kickers higher ranked kick in far better playing conditions come November/December.

I've followed Crosby since his days at CU and I sleep better at night knowing that he's our kicker. Sure he misses a few he shouldn't but he also gives you the chance to nail that 55+ yarder that most kickers don't. I think as Patler has been stating that once the holder position is figured out and consistent that he'll improve his numbers to some extent.

[packerbacker1234]

83% on kicks under 50 simply isn't good enough. That means 17% of the time we throw him out there, he is going to miss 1 out of every 5 kicks under 50. That's not good enough in my book.

I don't just want an "average" NFL kicker 45 and in. I want automatic 45 and in. Automatic is like 85 to 90% range.

I am not saying he is as bad as we make him out to be, but he has missed some kicks that are completely inexcusable, and all his misses (well, most opf them) seem to occur from the same area on tyhe field.

At some point, you can't blame the snapper and holder anymore. From his first season to now, he has SUCKED from the right hash mark. How much longer can we blame the holder?

[retailguy]

I don't think there is anything wrong with Mason Crosby. He's in a bit of a slump, but really, he's still better than the bulk of kickers in the NFL. McCarthy needs to put him in a position where he's more successful. Knock off this 60 yard crap.

They focused on getting him some sort of NFL distance record, and it blew up on them. Get back to the basics... no more problems.

[Little Whiskey]

I don't just want an "average" NFL kicker 45 and in. I want automatic 45 and in. Automatic is like 85 to 90% range.



pb1234, you're asking for an additional 2% from Crosby. he has attempted total 109 fg. 2% is 2 more fgs made. he has played 3 years. thats less than 1 more made fg per year. by your numbers, he's the guy you want.

[Little Whiskey]

reading his bio on packers.com, another important stat that hasn't been disussed much. 43 touchbacks in 3 years, ranks 9th in the league. his 17 tb's in 2008 is the most since '72.

[Joemailman]

There are 2 rites of summer in the NFL. Favre contemplates retirement, and the Packers try to figure out who Mason Crosby's holder will be. August is when you work on your technique as a kicker. Crosby's preparation for the season would be better if he at least had the same holder through training camp. I give Crosby credit for not publicly complaining about the situation. Imagine if Rodgers worked with 2 different groups of receivers through training camp and the preseason, not knowing which group he would be throwing to once the season started. It's a ridiculous situation.

[swede]

There are 2 rites of summer in the NFL. Favre contemplates retirement, and the Packers try to figure out who Mason Crosby's holder will be. August is when you work on your technique as a kicker. Crosby's preparation for the season would be better if he at least had the same holder through training camp. I give Crosby credit for not publicly complaining about the situation. Imagine if Rodgers worked with 2 different groups of receivers through training camp and the preseason, not knowing which group he would be throwing to once the season started. It's a ridiculous situation.

You are spot on, Joe.

AND, Mason has no problem with eating at Applebee's.