Matt Flynn - "best backup in the league"

[Patler]

Not my comment, or even the Packers, but a scout from another team!

Interesting perspective on Flynn:

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/100407939.html

[Scott Campbell]

I was just reading that article. Amazing. Especially the part about what he'd fetch in trade compensation.

[Fred's Slacks]

I was very suprised when reading this. Didn't think other teams looked so fondly at Flynn. Hope he has a good showing this weekend. He should get lots of reps.

[RashanGary]

I'm not surprised the Packers are excited about Flynn. I've known that for a while. I've even made comments that if the Packers are right about Flynn, we'll be OK for a 4 or 6 game span without Rodgers. Flynn could win half or more of those games.

I listen to every press conference and although my mind isn't completely open (sometimes I miss things I should have picked up on due to not having an open enough mind), there are a lot of subtle things I pick up on that maybe the average fanatic even doesn't really have a feel for .

The stuff from other teams is shocking. Everyone let him go, almost undrafted, now he's barely played and he's supposed to be the, "best backup in the league". That's weird. Only thing I can think of is the area scout is out there talking to his friends saying, hey, Flynn's really turning into something special and other scouts that liked him happen to be the guys McGinn is talking too. . . Strange that they'd feel that good about him with little to no NFL information.

[get louder at lambeau]

The stuff from other teams is shocking. Everyone let him go, almost undrafted, now he's barely played and he's supposed to be the, "best backup in the league". That's weird. Only thing I can think of is the area scout is out there talking to his friends saying, hey, Flynn's really turning into something special and other scouts that liked him happen to be the guys McGinn is talking too. . . Strange that they'd feel that good about him with little to no NFL information.

From what the one scout said, it sounds like the main question with Flynn at draft time was arm strength. If he has improved significantly in that area, that may have erased the only major flaw in his game from a scouting perspective. That's all I can think.

That and he has shown a lot of leadership skills for a backup since he's been here. That goes a long way towards success.

[Smidgeon]

It also didn't sound as if the scouts weren't high on him before. One said he just couldn't convince the GM to draft the guy.

[ThunderDan]

I think I am going to bring up the anti-Partial here. Partial use to bring up links and articles saying that ARod was the 12th best QB in the league by unknown scouts.

I say the same thing here. Who are these people? Who do they work for? I'll let Flynn's play on the field speak for itself. That being said, I sure hope that these unknown experts are correct.

[mraynrand]

If your starter goes out and you desperately need to lose a game, Sage Rosenfels is the man for you.

[Lurker64]

I think I am going to bring up the anti-Partial here. Partial use to bring up links and articles saying that ARod was the 12th best QB in the league by unknown scouts.

I say the same thing here. Who are these people? Who do they work for? I'll let Flynn's play on the field speak for itself. That being said, I sure hope that these unknown experts are correct.

Probably just a regional scout or a former one. Every NFL team (except the Bengals) employs a gaggle of regional scouts whose job it is to keep tabs on all of the prospects in their region. When it comes time to prepare for the draft, each regional scout will have their own favorite players and the players they like much less than the consensus on them is. They'll work out these arguments over the course of a month or two around the time of the combine, and the regional scouts are at the very bottom of the totem poll when it comes to player evaluation. They're really just there to provide raw data to the real decision makers.

So it's really only a little more than "a guy has an opinion". These people are considered good enough judges of talent to have a job evaluating players, but they're not the best of the best or they'd have jobs higher up the ladder; some of these guys will work their way up the ladder but it's impossible to tell who's a future GM and who's doing to be replaced soon.

[SkinBasket]

Basically two unnamed sources claimed to have liked the guy in the last couple years. Not too much to get excited about.

[Patler]

I think I am going to bring up the anti-Partial here. Partial use to bring up links and articles saying that ARod was the 12th best QB in the league by unknown scouts.

I say the same thing here. Who are these people? Who do they work for? I'll let Flynn's play on the field speak for itself. That being said, I sure hope that these unknown experts are correct.

Probably just a regional scout or a former one. Every NFL team (except the Bengals) employs a gaggle of regional scouts whose job it is to keep tabs on all of the prospects in their region. When it comes time to prepare for the draft, each regional scout will have their own favorite players and the players they like much less than the consensus on them is. They'll work out these arguments over the course of a month or two around the time of the combine, and the regional scouts are at the very bottom of the totem poll when it comes to player evaluation. They're really just there to provide raw data to the real decision makers.

So it's really only a little more than "a guy has an opinion". These people are considered good enough judges of talent to have a job evaluating players, but they're not the best of the best or they'd have jobs higher up the ladder; some of these guys will work their way up the ladder but it's impossible to tell who's a future GM and who's doing to be replaced soon.

I'm not so sure that one of the lower level regional scouts would be identified by McGinn as "an executive in personnel for an NFL club". Seems more likely to be an individual a little higher up the food chain.

Not that it means much. Last year there were still guys on Brian Brohm's bandwagon!

[Patler]

Basically two unnamed sources claimed to have liked the guy in the last couple years. Not too much to get excited about.

I'm certainly not excited about it, but I did think it was both surprising and interesting that they would speak as highly about him as they did when he hasn't played enough even in preseason games to get much of a feel for what he can do.

[Lurker64]

I'm not so sure that one of the lower level regional scouts would be identified by McGinn as "an executive in personnel for an NFL club". Seems more likely to be an individual a little higher up the food chain.

Not that it means much. Last year there were still guys on Brian Brohm's bandwagon!

Well, regardless of who you're talking about in the player evaluation biz, it's important to observe that even the very best are wrong quite frequently. So even if you have Ozzie Newsome, Scott Pioli, and Bill Polian telling you that a guy is great, when you haven't seen that guy actually play much in the NFL you can't be sure.

[Brandon494]

I don't know who those two scouts were but they better start looking for a new line of work if they think Fylnn is the best backup QB in the league.

So let me get this straight, even though he is average to below average in practice and hasnt even throw a TD or for 100 yards for his career they think he is the best backup? :roll:

Is he a good athlete? yes

but just because he won a national championship behind a powerful running game and the #1 defense in the country at LSU doesn't make him a future starter in this league. Next Mark Brunell? Sorry I just don't see it.

[Scott Campbell]

Next Mark Brunell? Sorry I just don't see it.


You're right - you just don't see it. Just like we didn't see much of Rodgers before he became the starter.

[Brandon494]

Next Mark Brunell? Sorry I just don't see it.


You're right - you just don't see it. Just like we didn't see much of Rodgers before he became the starter.

Maybe you didn't but I did. I'm a huge VT fan and I had to watch that SOB(before we was drafted by the Packers of course :wink: ) go on a aerial assault and lead Cal from a 14 point deficit to beat Tech in a bowl game.

Not to mention when he came in for Favre in the Dallas game he did a pretty damn good job.

Exactly what has Fylnn showed?

[SkinBasket]

Exactly what has Fylnn showed?

More than Dez Bryant at this level, yet you have him as the next sure fire HOFer.

[RashanGary]

Next Mark Brunell? Sorry I just don't see it.


You're right - you just don't see it. Just like we didn't see much of Rodgers before he became the starter.

Maybe you didn't but I did. I'm a huge VT fan and I had to watch that SOB(before we was drafted by the Packers of course :wink: ) go on a aerial assault and lead Cal from a 14 point deficit to beat Tech in a bowl game.

Not to mention when he came in for Favre in the Dallas game he did a pretty damn good job.

Exactly what has Fylnn showed?

Ted Thompson has a way of drafting players for what they're good at and seemingly overlooking flaws that turn others away.


Nick Collins came from a tiny black school. I think sometimes people misunderstand him to be not very smart because he doesn't exactly blend beautifully into the mainstream fabric as others might. What makes him different, I think is one of his greatest strengths. I think he has a certain pride and connection with where he comes from, he doesn't try to be someone else. He's proud of who he is and while the ignorant still judge him wrongly, he's carried himself as a man and look where he is, look what he's accomplishing. He's more of a man than 99% of people who judge him. Point being, I think Ted has a way of seeing people that's a little more pure than judgemental. Like great GM's of the past, I think there is a virtuous quality of seeing the good in all types of people. I wouldn't say Ted overlooked a negative quality, but that he saw greatness where someone else might not have understood difference.

Greg Jennings came from a small school in Michigan. He's not tall enough, wasn't a super burner in the 4.3's, but he was a gamer. Ted sort of shrugged, I think he looks pretty fast. He said, "I know he's in a small school and the talent level is different, but he's doing the things we're going to ask him to do and he's great at it".

Clay Matthews only played a year of college defense. Ted thought he looked spectacular on the tape. It was one year, oh well. Take him.

Rodgers came from a Tedford system. He was supposed to fail like those before him. Ted thought he was pretty good, took him anyway.

Sitton came from a small school. He doesn't have a perfect body. I still remember what Ted said when he drafted him, he said, "this guy has a way of always blocking his guy". It stood out to me at the time as a Tedism. Some guys he'll mention ability or in a round about way hint to potential, but with Sitton the only things he had to say was, this guy plays really fuckin good.


There's always been a, "I'm smarter than you" mantra that some people have gotten from Ted, like he's trying to outsmart people. But I think he's an old school football guy who's just focused on how they play the game. Will he take a guy even if he has a judged wart? Sure. Does he let common perception dominate his thinking or the thinking of his room? No, not really. But he has experience and an open mind in what he does that I think pays off, even if those who believe, "common perception is right because it's common and if it weren't right, it wouldnt' be so common" disagree. I guess Ted does conduct himself in a way that shows he believes he's smarter than the common traditional viewpoint and really, I think we're pretty lucky that he IS.

So when it comes to Flynn, I've gotten a feel from the Packers, similar to what McGinn writes here that he's a gamer. Who cares if he has a judged wart? When he gets on the field, he's good. It's not about fitting into a box, it's about finding away. Flynn, like the great picks before him, finds a way. He's a Ted guy, a gamer.

[The Leaper]

I'm not so sure that one of the lower level regional scouts would be identified by McGinn as "an executive in personnel for an NFL club".

Al Davis, perhaps?

Matt Millen would also qualify if still employed.

There are dumbasses a plenty in the NFL.

However, Flynn is a pretty good player IMO. I think he will surprise people this preseason with how good he is. Best backup in the league? Nah. But he's probably top 10 without question, and with a good preseason could be top 5.

[Packgator]

[/quote]Sitton came from a small school.[/quote]

Being in C-USA does put UCF in the "small school" category as it relates to football. But here is a fun (and probably little known) fact......

2009-10 list of largest "on campus" universities by enrollment

1. Arizona State.........55,552
2. Ohio State.............55,014
3. UCF.......................53,537

Full list can be seen here......
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_United_States_university_campuses_ by_enrollment

UCF will soon be in one of the major conferences.

[Patler]

I'm not so sure that one of the lower level regional scouts would be identified by McGinn as "an executive in personnel for an NFL club".

Al Davis, perhaps?

Matt Millen would also qualify if still employed.

There are dumbasses a plenty in the NFL.

However, Flynn is a pretty good player IMO. I think he will surprise people this preseason with how good he is. Best backup in the league? Nah. But he's probably top 10 without question, and with a good preseason could be top 5.

I agree, the fact that two like him so much is meaningless, because they all make plenty of mistakes.

As I said before, I provided the link not to argue the accuracy of the evaluations, just to point out that they exist. To be honest, I would not have guessed that anyone thought so highly of Flynn, as to say what these guys did. The kid hasn't even played, and someone suggests he is the best backup in the league, may turn out to be better than Romo, etc.????

[Tarlam!]

Ted Thompson has a way of drafting players for what they're good at and seemingly overlooking flaws that turn others away.


Nick Collins came from a tiny black school. I think sometimes people misunderstand him to be not very smart because he doesn't exactly blend beautifully into the mainstream fabric as others might. What makes him different, I think is one of his greatest strengths. I think he has a certain pride and connection with where he comes from, he doesn't try to be someone else. He's proud of who he is and while the ignorant still judge him wrongly, he's carried himself as a man and look where he is, look what he's accomplishing. He's more of a man than 99% of people who judge him. Point being, I think Ted has a way of seeing people that's a little more pure than judgemental. Like great GM's of the past, I think there is a virtuous quality of seeing the good in all types of people. I wouldn't say Ted overlooked a negative quality, but that he saw greatness where someone else might not have understood difference.

Greg Jennings came from a small school in Michigan. He's not tall enough, wasn't a super burner in the 4.3's, but he was a gamer. Ted sort of shrugged, I think he looks pretty fast. He said, "I know he's in a small school and the talent level is different, but he's doing the things we're going to ask him to do and he's great at it".

Clay Matthews only played a year of college defense. Ted thought he looked spectacular on the tape. It was one year, oh well. Take him.

Rodgers came from a Tedford system. He was supposed to fail like those before him. Ted thought he was pretty good, took him anyway.

Sitton came from a small school. He doesn't have a perfect body. I still remember what Ted said when he drafted him, he said, "this guy has a way of always blocking his guy". It stood out to me at the time as a Tedism. Some guys he'll mention ability or in a round about way hint to potential, but with Sitton the only things he had to say was, this guy plays really fuckin good.


There's always been a, "I'm smarter than you" mantra that some people have gotten from Ted, like he's trying to outsmart people. But I think he's an old school football guy who's just focused on how they play the game. Will he take a guy even if he has a judged wart? Sure. Does he let common perception dominate his thinking or the thinking of his room? No, not really. But he has experience and an open mind in what he does that I think pays off, even if those who believe, "common perception is right because it's common and if it weren't right, it wouldnt' be so common" disagree. I guess Ted does conduct himself in a way that shows he believes he's smarter than the common traditional viewpoint and really, I think we're pretty lucky that he IS.

So when it comes to Flynn, I've gotten a feel from the Packers, similar to what McGinn writes here that he's a gamer. Who cares if he has a judged wart? When he gets on the field, he's good. It's not about fitting into a box, it's about finding away. Flynn, like the great picks before him, finds a way. He's a Ted guy, a gamer.

I think this is one of the best posts you've ever made. I might argue with you on the Collins intelligence part. I might have a few additional or contrary thoughts. But this was, for me, a very mature, insightful post that I really enjoyed reading. Thank you.

[Lurker64]

One thing to consider is that "best backup QB in the NFL" may not be the highest praise.

Let's look at all the QBs on the rosters of the other 31 teams right now (according to NFL.com):

Chicago: Jay Cutler, Brett Basanez, Caleb Hannie, Dan LeFevour, Mike Teel
Detroit: Matthew Stafford, Shaun Hill, Drew Stanton
Minnesota: Brett Favre, Tarvaris Jackson, Sage Rosenfels, Joe Webb
Arizona: Matt Leinart, Derek Anderson, John Skelton, Max Hall.
San Francisco: Alex Smith, Jarrett Brown, David Carr, Nate Davis
Seattle: Matt Hasselbeck, J.P. Losman, Charlie Whitehurst
St. Louis: A.J. Feeley, Sam Bradford, Keith Null, Thaddeus Lewis
Atlanta: Matt Ryan, Chris Redman, John Parker Wilson
Carolina: Matt Moore, Jimmy Clausen, Hunter Cantwell, Tony Pike
New Orleans: Drew Brees, Patrick Ramsey, Chase Daniel, Sean Canfield
Tampa Bay: Josh Freeman, Josh Johnson, Rudy Carpenter
Dallas: Tony Romo, Jon Kitna, Stephen McGee, Matt Nichols.
New York Giants: Eli Manning, Rhett Bomar, Jim Sorgi
Philadelphia: Kevin Kolb, Michael Vick, Mike Kafka.
Washington: Donovan McNabb, Rex Grossman, John Beck, Richard Bartel
Baltimore: Joe Flacco, Marc Bulger, Troy Smith
Cincinnati: Carson Palmer, J.T. O'Sullivan, Jordan Palmer.
Cleveland: Jake Delhomme, Colt McCoy, Seneca Wallace, Brett Ratliff
Pittsburgh: Ben Roethlisberger, Charlie Batch, Dennis Dixon, Byron Leftwich
Denver: Kyle Orton, Brady Quinn, Tim Tebow
Kansas City: Matt Cassel, Brodie Croyle, Tyler Palko
Oakland: Jason Campbell, Kyle Boller, Bruce Gradkowski, Colt Brennan, Charlie Frye
San Diego: Philip Rivers, Billy Volek, Johnathan Crompton
Houston: Matt Schaub, Dan Orlovsky, John David Booty.
Indianapolis: Peyton Manning, Curtis Painter, Tom Brandstater, Tim Hiller.
Jacksonville: David Garrard, Luke McCown, Trevor Harris.
Tennessee: Vince Young, Kerry Collins, Chris Simms, Rusty Smith
Buffalo: Trent Edwards, Brian Brohm, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Levi Brown
Miami: Chad Henne, Chad Pennington, Tyler Thigpen, Pat White
New England: Tom Brady, Brian Hoyer, Zac Robinson
New York Jets: Mark Sanchez, Mark Brunell, Kellen Clemens, Kevin O'Connel

So how many of those teams are you seriously convinced have two quarterbacks better than Matt Flynn?

There's a lot of guys with a lot of potential in there who haven't shown it yet (Bradford, Clausen, Tebow) but a lot of the backups in there are guys who came in with a lot of hype and proved to be somewhat less (Quinn, Brohm). There's a lot of guys who used to be good (Brunell, Bulger), and a bunch of guys who used to start but weren't all that good (Leftwich, Losman), and then there's a bunch of guys who we really have little idea about and Flynn is in that last camp. Could he be better than all the guys we've never heard of, and a bunch of the guys we have? Sure, a lot of things are possible. Could he be worse than a bunch of other guys? I can see that too. But one thing is clear to me after compiling that list, we could certainly do worse than Matt Flynn.

[Brandon494]

Exactly what has Fylnn showed?

More than Dez Bryant at this level, yet you have him as the next sure fire HOFer.

If throwing for 58 passing yards with 0 TDs makes you the best backup QB in your eyes then so be it.

I said believe Dez Bryant will be a solid WR in the NFL, thats far from me saying he is a sure HOFer but nice to see your still on my nuts.

[falco]

This is one of those things you hope you never have to prove.

Flynn sure seems to have developed good composure over the last 2 years.

[Brandon494]

We have the best backup QB in the league!!! GO PACK GO!

[Pugger]

I don't know who those two scouts were but they better start looking for a new line of work if they think Fylnn is the best backup QB in the league.

So let me get this straight, even though he is average to below average in practice and hasnt even throw a TD or for 100 yards for his career they think he is the best backup? :roll:

Is he a good athlete? yes

but just because he won a national championship behind a powerful running game and the #1 defense in the country at LSU doesn't make him a future starter in this league. Next Mark Brunell? Sorry I just don't see it.

If he was the best backup in the NFL he wouldn't have lost the back up jobs in Seattle, Oakland or Buffalo. Its nice he's back in GB but I don't know if he's really any better than Tolzien.

[Zool]

If he was the best backup in the NFL he wouldn't have lost the back up jobs in Seattle, Oakland or Buffalo. Its nice he's back in GB but I don't know if he's really any better than Tolzien.

If you could somehow mix Tolziens arm with Flynn's brain you might really have something.

[woodbuck27]

If he was the best backup in the NFL he wouldn't have lost the back up jobs in Seattle, Oakland or Buffalo. Its nice he's back in GB but I don't know if he's really any better than Tolzien.

Evidently then he's 'justa' backup QB and not a NO.1.

Evidently he's a great backup QB. TT must think so.

PACKERS !

[Harlan Huckleby]

If he was the best backup in the NFL he wouldn't have lost the back up jobs in Seattle, Oakland or Buffalo. Its nice he's back in GB but I don't know if he's really any better than Tolzien.


TT preferred Seneca Wallace to Flynn.

The Packers need a guy who knows the offense and can backup Sunday. That proves that they like Flynn better than Graham Harrell.

It's possible that Flynn will beat-out Tolzien next summer, but I expect MM is all-in with Tolzien for this fall.

[Harlan Huckleby]

If you could somehow mix Tolziens arm with Flynn's brain you might really have something.

I'll take Tolzien's brain and arm.

But we'll see next summer, I don't really know how good either of them are.

[Pugger]

When Flynn had to go in against Detroit in his first real action back in 2010 he wasn't as good as Tolzien was last Sunday. If Wallace didn't get hurt Matt is still unemployed.

[red]

When Flynn had to go in against Detroit in his first real action back in 2010 he wasn't as good as Tolzien was last Sunday. If Wallace didn't get hurt Matt is still unemployed.

15-26 (57.7%) for 177 yards, 0 td's, 1 int rating- 62.5

tolzien on sunday

24-39 (61.5) for 280 yards, 1 td, 2 ints (should have been 4), rating of 70.5

neither one is anything to write home about . who's to say Tolzien doesn't throw a half dozen INT's his next game when he plays a defense that isn't ranked second worse in the nfl

[Harlan Huckleby]

15-26 (57.7%) who's to say Tolzien doesn't throw a half dozen INT's his next game when he plays a defense that isn't ranked second worse in the nfl

I say. He played his first game since the 2011 Rose Bowl. He was a practice squad guy the week before. Yet he comes in cold and looks like a full grown NFL QB.

What's he gonna do with a (short) week of preparation? Play better.