Justin Harrell Preseason Play?

[Fritz]

How did Harrell look on the field against Cleveland? I haven't seen much on that at all. I heard no injury report on him, which is good. He apparently held up.

He's been getting criticized for his movement in practice between reps, so I'm wondering how his actual play has been, particularly against Cleveland.

[get louder at lambeau]

Harrell looked pretty good against Cleveland, but he just sat out the Tues. morning practice because his back "tightened up". :(

[Fritz]

Ouch. That might be the kiss of death.

[rbaloha1]

Against the backups, JH displayed the ability to move the pocket and split double teams.

Expect JH to be part of the rotation.

[mraynrand]

Let's get that Ryan Pickett flexibility back:

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[retailguy]

Harrell looked pretty good against Cleveland, but he just sat out the Tues. morning practice because his back "tightened up". :(

:evil: :(

[Fritz]

Mike Vandermeuse wrote a column saying it was time for the Packers to dump Harrell. His reasoning was that Harrell has proven he can't stay on the field, and pulling the plug would give other young guys a chance to prove themselves.

I disagree on both counts. In the first instance, it's true Harrell has not played much. No doubt. And yes, his back tightened up on Monday. And that's not good. However, unless the Packers are absolutely lying, Harrells' absence tonight is due to the fact that he's with his wife, who recently gave birth.

Now I don't doubt the Packers also see this as a chance for Harrell to rest that back a bit more. But MM did say Harrell had been medically cleared to play.

So why cut him now? Why not get him back next week, go through practices, play the preseason game, and see where his health is?

The other point - that cutting Harrell now would give young bucks a chance to step up - is also one I'd disagree with. This is Jarius Wynn's second year, and he's been very up and down. Aparently he had lots of trouble holding his ground against Cleveland. And the 7th round pick, Wilson, has not flashed much. Giving him more time might only mean you lessen your chances of keeping him on the practice squad. If you cut Harrell for Wilson, you're still going to end up with a guy who's inactive on Sundays.

So I say keep Harrell for now. See how the next week or week and a half plays out. Harrell is down to that, yes, but at give him that, anyway.

[VermontPackFan]

Has anyone heard whether he is going to play or not tonight? MM says he is medically cleared but I dont know if he is even back with the team or how his wife is doing?

[Tarlam!]

I read that piece, Fritz. Pretty harsh, I thought. But he was fair enough to note Harrell's work ethic is beyond question.

[Fritz]

I think the writer has a case, but I think he's jumping the gun. If Harrell's still missing practices in two weeks, then it's time. But why not give another two weeks to see?

And I think he's listed as out for this game due to personal matters.

[mraynrand]

it was time for the Packers to dump Harrell.

What comes around, goes around.

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/harreldump.jpg

[rbaloha1]

MV's article is much too premature given the amount of money invested.

If JH was a seventh round pick he would have been cut. Fans and writers need to remain patient.

[bobblehead]

Mike Vandermeuse wrote a column saying it was time for the Packers to dump Harrell. His reasoning was that Harrell has proven he can't stay on the field, and pulling the plug would give other young guys a chance to prove themselves.

I disagree on both counts. In the first instance, it's true Harrell has not played much. No doubt. And yes, his back tightened up on Monday. And that's not good. However, unless the Packers are absolutely lying, Harrells' absence tonight is due to the fact that he's with his wife, who recently gave birth.

Now I don't doubt the Packers also see this as a chance for Harrell to rest that back a bit more. But MM did say Harrell had been medically cleared to play.

So why cut him now? Why not get him back next week, go through practices, play the preseason game, and see where his health is?

The other point - that cutting Harrell now would give young bucks a chance to step up - is also one I'd disagree with. This is Jarius Wynn's second year, and he's been very up and down. Aparently he had lots of trouble holding his ground against Cleveland. And the 7th round pick, Wilson, has not flashed much. Giving him more time might only mean you lessen your chances of keeping him on the practice squad. If you cut Harrell for Wilson, you're still going to end up with a guy who's inactive on Sundays.

So I say keep Harrell for now. See how the next week or week and a half plays out. Harrell is down to that, yes, but at give him that, anyway.

Not much else to say. I am extremely pessimistic at this point, but cut him now?? That would just be stupid.

[get louder at lambeau]

it was time for the Packers to dump Harrell.

What comes around, goes around.

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq254/mraynrand/harreldump.jpg

That reminds me of a nice little photoshop thing I did a couple years back-

http://packersplanet.com/images/davenpoop.jpg

[bobblehead]

You people have too much time on your hands.

Is Harrell playing tonight?

[get louder at lambeau]

Is Harrell playing tonight?

That's a good question. McCarthy usually sits players that don't practice all week. Not sure if preseason is any different, or if having a baby enters into the equation.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I just rewatched the Seattle game, and I now think the article making Harrell sound like he had the worst game ever is ludicrous.

I watched Seattle's last drive in the 3rd quarter and first drive in the 4th quarter. Harrell played about 12 snaps. On one play he was on the ground assisting in a tackle. He wasn't knocked down. On one play he hit the ground while being blocked. It's hard to tell, but it might have even been a cut block. On the other 10 plays, Harrell was not on the ground. He assisted in one tackle, pressured the QB on one play, and mostly held the point on the others. I don't think there was a play where he was driven back--like I've seen from Raji. (Of course, he's going up against backups). On several plays, Harrell was double teamed. I think the article was mostly a hack job. Did he dominate? No. But not the awful game that the article made it out to be.

I preface it by saying I watched 12 plays. Apparently, Harrell played in 17 plays during the game. Maybe he was completelly awful in the other 5 plays.

[pbmax]

I just rewatched the Seattle game, and I now think the article making Harrell sound like he had the worst game ever is ludicrous.

I watched Seattle's last drive in the 3rd quarter and first drive in the 4th quarter. Harrell played about 12 snaps. On one play he was on the ground assisting in a tackle. He wasn't knocked down. On one play he hit the ground while being blocked. It's hard to tell, but it might have even been a cut block. On the other 10 plays, Harrell was not on the ground. He assisted in one tackle, pressured the QB on one play, and mostly held the point on the others. I don't think there was a play where he was driven back--like I've seen from Raji. (Of course, he's going up against backups). On several plays, Harrell was double teamed. I think the article was mostly a hack job. Did he dominate? No. But not the awful game that the article made it out to be.

I preface it by saying I watched 12 plays. Apparently, Harrell played in 17 plays during the game. Maybe he was completelly awful in the other 5 plays.
Odd that he agreed with the reporter's assessment then. However, the assessment the reporter used may not have sounded as uniformly terrible as it was phrased in the article.

I saw the same thing you did Harv, that he did not get moved. But I only remember a handful of plays (incl. the pressure, the tackle assist and two pursuits). I can only account for 4 or 5 of the seventeen.

[Joemailman]

The quality of the local press covering the Packers is really poor. Perhaps we have a different perspective because we follow the Packers on a day to day basis. Therefore, we're more likely to see through the B.S. than the average fan. If they write that Harrell sucked, the average fan will believe it. They're not likely to do what Harvey did and go back and look at the replays themselves.

[pbmax]

Well, if we are going to blame the reporter, it looks like we will be doing battle with McGinn. He has the article on the D line online right now (Wed night). In this article he mentions that Harrell had an awful game (its a reported piece, not a column). Trgovac, like Harrell before him, seems to concede the premise.

Trgovac explains that Harrell's wife had an emergency C-section last week and when Harrell went to Seattle, his child was still in intensive care. Claims he slept on the plane as he had not slept for the prior day and 1/2.

We'll see versus the Colts I guess.

[mraynrand]

The quality of the local press covering the Packers is really poor.... They're not likely to do what Harvey did and go back and look at the replays themselves.

McGinn usually does this. And he talks to those sometimes anonymous, sometimes not GMs. I agree that the other JS reporters are marginal at best on Xs and Os I trust the judgment of Harv, Fritz, Patler, KYC, and PB more than Bedard for sure.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Well, if we are going to blame the reporter, it looks like we will be doing battle with McGinn. He has the article on the D line online right now (Wed night). In this article he mentions that Harrell had an awful game (its a reported piece, not a column). Trgovac, like Harrell before him, seems to concede the premise.

Trgovac explains that Harrell's wife had an emergency C-section last week and when Harrell went to Seattle, his child was still in intensive care. Claims he slept on the plane as he had not slept for the prior day and 1/2.

We'll see versus the Colts I guess.

I've read the same things, but I just watched with my own two eyes. I watched 12 plays. On those 12 plays he did as much against backups as Raji has done against starters. I'm questioning whether he even got blocked to the ground on 6 plays--like the article suggests. That means, he would have had gotten knocked to the ground on all 5 plays that I didn't watch. Him diving to make a tackle is not getting knocked to the ground.

[Joemailman]

The quality of the local press covering the Packers is really poor.... They're not likely to do what Harvey did and go back and look at the replays themselves.

McGinn usually does this. And he talks to those sometimes anonymous, sometimes not GMs. I agree that the other JS reporters are marginal at best on Xs and Os I trust the judgment of Harv, Fritz, Patler, KYC, and PB more than Bedard for sure.

I used the word "they" too many times. What I meant was the average fan won't go look at replays. The average fan will just assume that what the reporter said was right.

[rbaloha1]

Harrell and many other linemen were on the ground due to the cut blocks which are atypical in the running game.

JH shall contribute during games. Agree that Raji is a slight concern and Pickett was better at ng.

[HarveyWallbangers]

JH shall contribute during games. Agree that Raji is a slight concern and Pickett was better at ng.

I think Pickett has been good at DE, but it won't matter if Raji isn't good at NT. I'd rather have a good NT than a good LDE. Fallback plan, I guess, would be to switch them back, but I don't think that's going to happen soon.

[Fritz]

Vandermause gave Harrell a thumbs up today for two plays in practice - one-on-ones.

[mraynrand]

The quality of the local press covering the Packers is really poor.... They're not likely to do what Harvey did and go back and look at the replays themselves.

McGinn usually does this. And he talks to those sometimes anonymous, sometimes not GMs. I agree that the other JS reporters are marginal at best on Xs and Os I trust the judgment of Harv, Fritz, Patler, KYC, and PB more than Bedard for sure.

I used the word "they" too many times. What I meant was the average fan won't go look at replays. The average fan will just assume that what the reporter said was right.

Well, you expect that the average fan won't go back and forth over the footage, but from what I can tell, most of the JS reporters do not go over game film - only McGinn routinely does this.

[Bossman641]

Thought this was an interesting article. It's strange to feel sorry for someone who has made more doing nothing in 3 years then I will in a lifetime but I feel bad for the guy.


One more chance

By JASON WILDE

jwilde@espnwisconsin.com



GREEN BAY – Justin Harrell wasn’t looking for anyone to feel sorry for him. Lord knows after three years of disappointment, sympathy for the Green Bay Packers’ 2007 first-round draft pick is in short supply.



But as he enters what might be his last chance to make something of his career in Green Bay – if not the NFL – in Thursday night’s exhibition finale at Kansas City, the oft-injured defensive end wants people to understand something.



He’s sorry.



“You come into this league, with it being a lifelong dream to get to this point, and you don’t want to just get here and say, ‘I was on the team.’ You want to do something, you want to show people that you really belong here,” Harrell said earlier this week. “And to this point, I really don’t feel like I have.”



You can certainly criticize general manager Ted Thompson for taking him with the 16th overall pick in the 2007 NFL Draft. You have every right to wonder whether Harrell did his part to be in tip-top shape before suffering the March 2008 back injury during the offseason program that plagues him to this day. And it’s perfectly reasonable to say that to this point, Harrell has been a complete bust.



But if you think the kid has simply collected a paycheck, hasn’t felt bad about the way his career has gone and hasn’t worked very hard to give it one last shot, well, then you’ve got him all wrong.



“He cares. There’s no doubt in my mind that he cares,” defensive line coach Mike Trgovac said Tuesday. “And I do have hope for him.”



Problem is, that’s all anyone’s ever had for Harrell – hope. He’s played in just 13 games over his three NFL seasons, spending all of last year on injured reserve because of two back surgeries that still didn’t completely resolve the disk problems he’s had.



But if Harrell wasn’t serious about making up for the disappointment he’s been, then he wouldn’t have traveled to Seattle two weeks ago to play in the Packers’ second preseason game against the Seahawks.



By now you know that Harrell played poorly in that game – the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel did an extensive breakdown of just how bad Harrell looked – and if you re-watch the tape of the game, Harrell’s body language looks like he doesn’t want to be there. And in truth, he probably didn’t. Because what you didn’t know is that his newborn son, who arrived when Harrell’s wife, Barbie, had an emergency caesarian section in the early morning hours of Aug 19, was in the neo-natal intensive care unit at a local hospital.



“If I put the pads on and play a game, I’m expected to have a good game,” Harrell said. “There was a lot of stuff going on in my head, but I can’t use that as an excuse. It was just a bad game.”



And while Trgovac, who isn’t the most touchy-feely coach you’ll run across, has been hard on Harrell throughout camp, even he had to admit that the Seattle performance wasn’t a fair representation of Harrell’s camp.



“Yes, he was (bad). But put yourself in that guy’s shoes,” Trgovac said. “It’s not like he had a baby and the baby was at home with his mom. His baby was in intensive care, and that’s his first child.



“I don’t know if you have any kids, but picture that baby being in ICU. It was not a planned C-section. It was an emergency C-section. My first baby was an emergency C-section, but it was in May. I don’t know that I could’ve gone out and played a game.”



Harrell said this week that mother and child are doing fine now, and his play against Indianapolis last Thursday night was significantly better than it was against the Seahawks, Trgovac said.



“Yes, he was (bad against Seattle), but I think he had really one play (against Indianapolis) that I really ripped his (expletive) for,” Trgovac said, pointing out that Harrell was the one who got a hand on quarterback Peyton Manning on the play that ended in linebacker Frank Zombo’s sack-fumble on the four-time NFL MVP.



“He played 18 reps. He played the run well, he had two rushes – on the sack-fumble, he had a great rush on that one; the other one, he wasn’t very good. (But) he did his job and it wasn’t that difficult for him.”



Now, Harrell may be facing his last game with the Packers, even though the No. 5 and No. 6 defensive line roster spots are wide open. While the three starters (Ryan Pickett, B.J. Raji, Cullen Jenkins) and top backup (rookie Mike Neal) are set, Harrell is battling Jarius Wynn, rookie C.J. Wilson, Anthony Toribio and Ronald Talley for one of the final two spots. The Packers generally have five defensive linemen active on game days.



“I think in our minds right now, this game is huge for these guys. We want to see out of 5 and 6 who steps up,” Trgovac said. “They’ve all got ability, they’ve all shown flashes. We need that next guy to step up.



“This game will determine a lot for those guys. This game is very important to those last two spots.”



With the exception of missing the Aug. 17 practice when it flared up on him, Harrell hasn’t had any problems with his back, and Trgovac said he has intentionally kept Harrell’s snap count as high as possible in practice to “see if (the back) will go” out on him. It hasn’t, although Thursday night Harrell figures to play more snaps than he has to this point.



Whether or not he does enough with those snaps will become clear on Saturday, when the final roster reduction from 75 players to 53 players is due.



“I think I can help this team. I still feel like I can play in this league and I can be a good player in this league. As long as I got the opportunity, I’m just going to keep working,” Harrell said. “It’s the last preseason games before the cuts, so it’s pretty much an audition for all of us. I have no clue, no direction on which way they want to go or how they’re feeling. I’m going to go out there and play as hard as I can and see what happens over the weekend.



“Just (in terms of) being available, it’s without a doubt the best training camp I’ve had from that aspect. I’ve had some inconsistent play, but I’m trying to work hard and at the end of the day, not have any regrets. And I think for the most part, that’s what I can say about this training camp. I’m just trying to control what I can control, hopefully put a good game together on Thursday and just sit and wait.”

[Fritz]

I hope he makes it. I think he ought to. He has ability. It's been about his health. And if his health continues to hold up, I think he'll get better and better as he feels more comfortable about his back.

I mean seriously, does CJ Wilson or Jarius Wynn or Ronald Talley have more talent than Harrell? Why cut Harrell when he's finally getting healthy?

[retailguy]

I hope he makes it. I think he ought to. He has ability. It's been about his health. And if his health continues to hold up, I think he'll get better and better as he feels more comfortable about his back.

I mean seriously, does CJ Wilson or Jarius Wynn or Ronald Talley have more talent than Harrell? Why cut Harrell when he's finally getting healthy?

I think he makes the team, and unfortunately I think he gets hurt during the year.

But you're right, makes NO sense to cut him right now.

[Smidgeon]

“I think I can help this team. I still feel like I can play in this league and I can be a good player in this league. As long as I got the opportunity, I’m just going to keep working,” Harrell said. “It’s the last preseason games before the cuts, so it’s pretty much an audition for all of us. I have no clue, no direction on which way they want to go or how they’re feeling. I’m going to go out there and play as hard as I can and see what happens over the weekend.



“Just (in terms of) being available, it’s without a doubt the best training camp I’ve had from that aspect. I’ve had some inconsistent play, but I’m trying to work hard and at the end of the day, not have any regrets. And I think for the most part, that’s what I can say about this training camp. I’m just trying to control what I can control, hopefully put a good game together on Thursday and just sit and wait.”

I, for one, certainly enjoy how straightforward he is and how much he gets exactly where he's at.

[NewsBruin]

I think he makes the team, and unfortunately I think he gets hurt during the year.

But you're right, makes NO sense to cut him right now.

With 3 guys on PUP, there's going to be a roster-trimming point after the 6th game. I know the Pack would rather Harrell be a great 16-game player and get full value from his spot, but if he has to be IR'd, it would be nice to be before Game 7 rather than after.

[MichiganPackerFan]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eAif5J5G2f7z/439x.jpg

The look on Pickett's face is priceless. He's like "Yeah. I got this. This is how it's done young buck."

[Fritz]

I dunno. Looks to me more like Pickett caught Harrell checking out his package.

[red]

well, harrell survived preseason which is a major plus, but he's looked like a jag while going up against second and third string guys

the only reason he makes this team is because we are desperate for depth on the d-line

he should have looked like a guy playing for his football life this preseason

[MichiganPackerFan]

I dunno. Looks to me more like Pickett caught Harrell checking out his package.

Is he winking a confident invitation to him?

[bobblehead]

well, harrell survived preseason which is a major plus, but he's looked like a jag while going up against second and third string guys

the only reason he makes this team is because we are desperate for depth on the d-line

he should have looked like a guy playing for his football life this preseason

Yes and no. A guy coming off all that inactivity is going to look and be more tenative than a guy who has been healthy. I didn't expect him to be gangbusters.

Given his youth, if the back is truly ok he may get stronger as the season goes. I hope this is the case.

We will know by week 8 if this is behind him or not and if he can/will become a player, but he is on the team for this season cuz as you said....we really don't have anyone better with anywhere near his potential.

If he isn't looking MUCH better at the end of the season, and say Jolly comes back he may be on the street next season, but again, its wait and see....up to now he has been what he needed to be: available.

[Joemailman]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eAif5J5G2f7z/439x.jpg

The look on Pickett's face is priceless. He's like "Yeah. I got this. This is how it's done young buck."

Is it a trick of the camera, or is Pickett a lot heavier than Harrell?

[get louder at lambeau]

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/0eAif5J5G2f7z/439x.jpg

The look on Pickett's face is priceless. He's like "Yeah. I got this. This is how it's done young buck."

Is it a trick of the camera, or is Pickett a lot heavier than Harrell?

Pickett's got about 30 pounds on Harrell.

[Brandon494]

Besides the Seattle game Harrell has looked good this preseason, he'll make the team.

[Fritz]

I think after waiting on the guy for years to get healthy it'd be folish to cut him once he finally gets that way.

[Patler]

I think after waiting on the guy for years to get healthy it'd be folish to cut him once he finally gets that way.

Exactly. The rust has to be an inch thick. If they were to cut him for concerns that he won't stay healthy, they should have done it before camp. because no matter what he did, the concern would exist. His problems were minimal in camp. He didn't breakdown. Now see if he can play. It's not like by keeping him they have to release someone that has looked real good.

[Fritz]

I think after waiting on the guy for years to get healthy it'd be folish to cut him once he finally gets that way.

Exactly. The rust has to be an inch thick. If they were to cut him for concerns that he won't stay healthy, they should have done it before camp. because no matter what he did, the concern would exist. His problems were minimal in camp. He didn't breakdown. Now see if he can play. It's not like by keeping him they have to release someone that has looked real good.

But how can they keep five tight ends if the don't release Harrell?

[Patler]

I think after waiting on the guy for years to get healthy it'd be folish to cut him once he finally gets that way.

Exactly. The rust has to be an inch thick. If they were to cut him for concerns that he won't stay healthy, they should have done it before camp. because no matter what he did, the concern would exist. His problems were minimal in camp. He didn't breakdown. Now see if he can play. It's not like by keeping him they have to release someone that has looked real good.

But how can they keep five tight ends if the don't release Harrell?

By releasing Wynn, Toribio and Wilson! :lol: