Moll & Meredith - valuable backups

[Patler]

Did the Packers give up too soon?
Should they have kept Moll and Meredith, and dumped Barbre & Giacomini last year?

Article from Baltimore about Moll:
http://blogs.baltimoreravens.com/2010/08/24/moll-is-the-next-man-up-with-cousins-out/

Article from Buffalo about Meredith:
http://www.buffalobills.com/news/article-3/Five-players-to-watch/f5f8dd29-5bbd-4a1f-9a0c-def98360cdec

[get louder at lambeau]

And if they dump Barbre and Giacomini, will we be hearing how well they are doing in Oakland and Detroit next year?

[mission]

And if they dump Barbre and Giacomini, will we be hearing how well they are doing in Oakland and Detroit next year?

Probably. The James Campen Experience.

[Patler]

And if they dump Barbre and Giacomini, will we be hearing how well they are doing in Oakland and Detroit next year?

Probably. The James Campen Experience.

That's what I wonder, but I have always been a staunch critic of Campen's promotion.

On the other hand, Coston is out of the NFL as far as I know.

[rbaloha1]

Derrick Martin is a good player. IMO Newhouse is a better prospect than Meredith.

[Patler]

Derrick Martin is a good player. IMO Newhouse is a better prospect than Meredith.

But Martin may not even make the roster past Bigby's availability. Collins, Burnett, Bigby and Blackmon probably all make the roster ahead of him. Then they have Peprah, too.

I hope you are right about Newhouse. I have no opinion about the comparison, but I know last year there were some pre-draft polls that suggested Meredith could go quite high in the draft, based on his potential. Can't say I even heard much about Newhouse before the draft.

[Fritz]

I was bummed when the team did not keep Meredith on the 53 last year. he seemed a more worthy project than Giacomini. He was, after all, a rookie.

But the article suggests that he's starting because the usual starter is out, right? And that he's the backup right tackle, too. Important job, backup, but it didn't sound like he was necessarily the LT of the future.

And Moll, I think he had plenty of time to deveop here. The article seems to suggest he's just stepped in once and done a good job as a backup. But I don't know that it says he's the next big thing - just a guy.

Still, I do think Campen may not be the best developer of young talent. I wonder if Colledge may have been a better player had he had a different line coach.

[gbpackfan]

Moll is the third string RT and now HAS to play because of injuries. Fluff piece. Dont be fooled.

Meredith would have been a better player to keep than Giacomini. But that's alot easier to tell now. Oh well.

[rbaloha1]

Derrick Martin is a good player. IMO Newhouse is a better prospect than Meredith.

But Martin may not even make the roster past Bigby's availability. Collins, Burnett, Bigby and Blackmon probably all make the roster ahead of him. Then they have Peprah, too.

I hope you are right about Newhouse. I have no opinion about the comparison, but I know last year there were some pre-draft polls that suggested Meredith could go quite high in the draft, based on his potential. Can't say I even heard much about Newhouse before the draft.

Based on preseason play Newhouse is playing well -- never gets beat and assignment sure.

[mraynrand]

Derrick Martin is a good player. IMO Newhouse is a better prospect than Meredith.

But Martin may not even make the roster past Bigby's availability. Collins, Burnett, Bigby and Blackmon probably all make the roster ahead of him. Then they have Peprah, too.

I hope you are right about Newhouse. I have no opinion about the comparison, but I know last year there were some pre-draft polls that suggested Meredith could go quite high in the draft, based on his potential. Can't say I even heard much about Newhouse before the draft.

Based on preseason play Newhouse is playing well -- never gets beat and assignment sure.

another take:

http://www.totalpackers.com/2010/05/09/newhouse-could-spell-the-end-for-colledge-or-spitz/

[bobblehead]

Derrick Martin is a good player. IMO Newhouse is a better prospect than Meredith.

But Martin may not even make the roster past Bigby's availability. Collins, Burnett, Bigby and Blackmon probably all make the roster ahead of him. Then they have Peprah, too.

I hope you are right about Newhouse. I have no opinion about the comparison, but I know last year there were some pre-draft polls that suggested Meredith could go quite high in the draft, based on his potential. Can't say I even heard much about Newhouse before the draft.

Based on preseason play Newhouse is playing well -- never gets beat and assignment sure.

another take:

http://www.totalpackers.com/2010/05/09/newhouse-could-spell-the-end-for-colledge-or-spitz/

The date on the comments suggests that article was written in early may.

I am with Patler and have no opinion on Newhouse having read nothing and not noticed him playing.

I do have an opinion on Babre. After I thought he would be suited to play LG better than tackle since the edge speed wouldn't be a factor AB has proven me a fool. I'll keep the jury out on Giacominni, but I think we can say for fact that keeping either of those 2 guys above over Babre would have been the better play....hindsight is 20/20 though.

[Patler]

No need to point out they are just backups, I acknowledged that in the thread title. The question is, are they better backups than Giocomini and Barbre. I think the answer is yes.

Moll is what he is, not great, but not a constantly spinning revolving door to the QB as Barbre was last year and continues to be this year, and as Giocomini has been in his two games so far.

Meredith has some potential. The Bills seem satisfied with him so far. He played well for them last year when rushed into the starting lineup after just a week or so.

By all accounts, Giocomini is a right tackle only, not a guard, not a left tackle. Barbre has shown he can line up and play equally poorly at a lot of positions.

Moll plays guard and tackle, and Meredith plays both tackle positions.

I think both Barbre and Giocomini are busts and will not make the final 53. I suspect Meredith would have this year, and Moll may have as a last man standing sort of backup. I think both have more value right now than either Barbre and Giocomini.

[vince]

Moll could have helped last year probably, but it's hard to be overly critical of the decision to trade him. Moll is what he is and always will be - below average. He wouldn't be a Packer this year regardless.

Our backups this year are looking like Bulaga/Colledge, Lang, Spitz, and EDS/Newhouse. I'll take any/all of them over the four in question - and I'll especially take Lang and Bulaga as heir apparents to the tackle spots over them.

Giaco just hasn't developed and Barbre just can't figure it out apparently. Sure they whiffed on these two, but both are physically more gifted than Meredith and Moll. Sometimes it makes sense to take a chance on the physically superior guys at the bottom of the roster. And it's not like Meredit or Moll are going to end up in Canton.

Meredith was not good in camp last year - at all. He was regularly beaten in the preseason. Ted gambled on him sticking on the practice squad, and he lost that bet because of the Bills' desperate situation on the line, but it's not like the guy's destined for Canton here.

Moving/cutting guys that aren't ready to make this team but have potential and might be claimed and stick elsewhere (Muir is another) where anothe team is thinner is going to happen annually as this team continues to mature.

I bet Quinn Johnson, if cut this year, goes on to have a decent career in the league too. One of the TE's cut probably will too. Both punters will probably be punting in the league for someone. Watch Wynn or Wilson (if cut) get claimed.

Next year will probably be even tougher yet to crack the 53. Some that don't will probably stick elsewhere on inferior rosters and end up looking OK in the rear-view mirror.

[HarveyWallbangers]

No need to point out they are just backups, I acknowledged that in the thread title. The question is, are they better backups than Giocomini and Barbre. I think the answer is yes.

I think the question should be: would they make the roster this year? If so, then it might have been a mistake. I can't get too worked up about trading Moll for Martin. Would Meredith make this year's team? If he's better than Lang, Newhouse, or whomever we keep as backup OT, then perhaps it was a mistake. Then again, Giacomini could get cut and become a serviceable backup for some other team by this time next year. Would it be a mistake to cut him then--knowing that he sucks now?

[Patler]

No need to point out they are just backups, I acknowledged that in the thread title. The question is, are they better backups than Giocomini and Barbre. I think the answer is yes.

I think the question should be: would they make the roster this year? If so, then it might have been a mistake. I can't get too worked up about trading Moll for Martin. Would Meredith make this year's team? If he's better than Lang, Newhouse, or whomever we keep as backup OT, then perhaps it was a mistake. Then again, Giacomini could get cut and become a serviceable backup for some other team by this time next year. Would it be a mistake to cut him then--knowing that he sucks now?


If the question was directed at me, I said what I thought their chances would have been this year:



I think both Barbre and Giocomini are busts and will not make the final 53. I suspect Meredith would have this year, and Moll may have as a last man standing sort of backup. I think both have more value right now than either Barbre and Giocomini.

I don't mind having traded Moll, toying with the bottom of the depth chart never really bothers me. The one that sort of confused me was exposing Meredith while protecting Giocomini. I know Meredith had a poor camp, but no worse the Giocomini as a rookie, and maybe no worse than Giocomini last year.

Somehow, the staff apparently didn't get through to Meredith. After going to Buffalo, he talked about being confused in GB, but quickly having a better understanding about schemes in Buffalo. That article raised a lot of questions in my mind.

[bobblehead]

Somehow, the staff apparently didn't get through to Meredith. After going to Buffalo, he talked about being confused in GB, but quickly having a better understanding about schemes in Buffalo. That article raised a lot of questions in my mind.

this wouldn't be aimed straight at mr. campen would it?

[red]

Somehow, the staff apparently didn't get through to Meredith. After going to Buffalo, he talked about being confused in GB, but quickly having a better understanding about schemes in Buffalo. That article raised a lot of questions in my mind.

didn't we give up on him really quickly? i don't even remember him making it to preseason

cutting him shocked me, i thought he was a great pick and a guy that could develop nicely

[Patler]

Somehow, the staff apparently didn't get through to Meredith. After going to Buffalo, he talked about being confused in GB, but quickly having a better understanding about schemes in Buffalo. That article raised a lot of questions in my mind.

this wouldn't be aimed straight at mr. campen would it?

ME? Complain about Campen?? :o :twisted: :lol:

[Fritz]

This thread is getting confusing. I think if we moved it to Buffalo I would understand it better. :D

[retailguy]

Personally, I believe that there has been too much talent on the OL that has run through GB for there not to be some issues with coaching.

If you believe, and I do, that every single draft pick has the TALENT to succeed in the NFL, then, the two most important criteria are work ethic and coaching. One is controllable by the player and one is not.

Some of the failure, even just if it's statistically, has to be attributed to the coaching staff.

If the OL problems are not solved, maybe Campen and Favre should go deer hunting this year in brown leather jackets... :twisted: :wink:

Seriously, we've waited long enough for a good OL. There are no more excuses.

[ThunderDan]

Somehow, the staff apparently didn't get through to Meredith. After going to Buffalo, he talked about being confused in GB, but quickly having a better understanding about schemes in Buffalo. That article raised a lot of questions in my mind.

didn't we give up on him really quickly? i don't even remember him making it to preseason

cutting him shocked me, i thought he was a great pick and a guy that could develop nicely

Meredith was on the PS and the Bills claimed him.

[retailguy]

Somehow, the staff apparently didn't get through to Meredith. After going to Buffalo, he talked about being confused in GB, but quickly having a better understanding about schemes in Buffalo. That article raised a lot of questions in my mind.

didn't we give up on him really quickly? i don't even remember him making it to preseason

cutting him shocked me, i thought he was a great pick and a guy that could develop nicely

Meredith was on the PS and the Bills claimed him.

That's true, Dan. But to get on the PS, you have to pass through waivers, which means you have to be cut.

Usually, rookies get a year to develop, but he didn't. I think that's the point.

[Patler]

Somehow, the staff apparently didn't get through to Meredith. After going to Buffalo, he talked about being confused in GB, but quickly having a better understanding about schemes in Buffalo. That article raised a lot of questions in my mind.

didn't we give up on him really quickly? i don't even remember him making it to preseason

cutting him shocked me, i thought he was a great pick and a guy that could develop nicely

Meredith was on the PS and the Bills claimed him.

You don't claim someone off a practice squad, you offer them a contract. There have been instances in which, for one reason or another, the player declines, or, more commonly, the first team offers an equal or better contract. That happened for the Packers a few years ago, but I can't remember which player it was.

When Meredith left, the Packers admitted they made no counteroffer,even though at the time they were hurting for tackles. They got Meredith in by drafting him, then completely lost interest in him.

[Smidgeon]

Somehow, the staff apparently didn't get through to Meredith. After going to Buffalo, he talked about being confused in GB, but quickly having a better understanding about schemes in Buffalo. That article raised a lot of questions in my mind.

didn't we give up on him really quickly? i don't even remember him making it to preseason

cutting him shocked me, i thought he was a great pick and a guy that could develop nicely

Meredith was on the PS and the Bills claimed him.

You don't claim someone off a practice squad, you offer them a contract. There have been instances in which, for one reason or another, the player declines, or, more commonly, the first team offers an equal or better contract. That happened for the Packers a few years ago, but I can't remember which player it was.

When Meredith left, the Packers admitted they made no counteroffer,even though at the time they were hurting for tackles. They got Meredith in by drafting him, then completely lost interest in him.

Lasanah

[Patler]

Somehow, the staff apparently didn't get through to Meredith. After going to Buffalo, he talked about being confused in GB, but quickly having a better understanding about schemes in Buffalo. That article raised a lot of questions in my mind.

didn't we give up on him really quickly? i don't even remember him making it to preseason

cutting him shocked me, i thought he was a great pick and a guy that could develop nicely

Meredith was on the PS and the Bills claimed him.

You don't claim someone off a practice squad, you offer them a contract. There have been instances in which, for one reason or another, the player declines, or, more commonly, the first team offers an equal or better contract. That happened for the Packers a few years ago, but I can't remember which player it was.

When Meredith left, the Packers admitted they made no counteroffer,even though at the time they were hurting for tackles. They got Meredith in by drafting him, then completely lost interest in him.

Lasanah

Yup, that's the guy! Thanks!

[ThunderDan]

Somehow, the staff apparently didn't get through to Meredith. After going to Buffalo, he talked about being confused in GB, but quickly having a better understanding about schemes in Buffalo. That article raised a lot of questions in my mind.

didn't we give up on him really quickly? i don't even remember him making it to preseason

cutting him shocked me, i thought he was a great pick and a guy that could develop nicely

Meredith was on the PS and the Bills claimed him.

You don't claim someone off a practice squad, you offer them a contract. There have been instances in which, for one reason or another, the player declines, or, more commonly, the first team offers an equal or better contract. That happened for the Packers a few years ago, but I can't remember which player it was.

When Meredith left, the Packers admitted they made no counteroffer,even though at the time they were hurting for tackles. They got Meredith in by drafting him, then completely lost interest in him.

Claim in my sentence meant "taken/offered a contract" not claimed in the waiver wire sense.

Meredith was horrible in the preseason. He was draft as a project and was so bad that the Packers thought they could easily stash him on the PS and no one would grab him. I think this points more to the value of the LT in the NFL than to any potential Meredith had. Buffalo was hurting and I am sure they looked at any and all LT possibilities before signing Meredith because his preseason tape was god awful.

[sharpe1027]

You don't claim someone off a practice squad, you offer them a contract. There have been instances in which, for one reason or another, the player declines, or, more commonly, the first team offers an equal or better contract. That happened for the Packers a few years ago, but I can't remember which player it was.


I think the that happened with Brohm, but he didn't take the Packer's counter offer.

[Deputy Nutz]

The growth of the Packers home grown offensive linemen have been below average at best under Thompson and McCarthy.

One of those reasons is that Thompson looks for the gems towards the end of the draft. Guys Like Colledge, and Spitz have so far made it this far because they are simply more talented than guys like Moll, Meredith, Gio, and Babre. Even with that they have not performed like the fans of the Packers have hoped. Spitz is basically auditioning for another team, and Colledge is being replaced by Bulga who was supposed to be the primary backup at left tackle.

Whether it Campen or the fact that Thompson has just missed on his offensive linemen I don't know but none of them breed confidence that when Tauscher and Clifton play their last snaps for the Packers that they will be replaced with capable offensive linemen.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I like our OL this year. I think they'll surprise a lot of people. I like our 8 deep with room for a project or two.

[retailguy]

I like our OL this year. I think they'll surprise a lot of people. I like our 8 deep with room for a project or two.

Well, I like Sitton a lot. Wells just plays, he's one of those guys that Wolf always said he'd replace as soon as he could, but the guy just keeps playing. Ciffy & Tausch are getting old but still have been reliable. I think Lang has a bright future, and I'm hoping that this pre-season is just the effects of his injury. Bulaga seems to be as advertised. Too soon to have an opinion on Newhouse. Staff seems to like EDS but I am not sure I've ever watched the guy play. Again, no opinon.

I think the above is the core of the OL.

That leaves Spitz, Colledge, Gio, and barbre. The last two aren't fit for an NFL roster. That's disappointing from the early TC praise we had for Gio. They're gone and should be. I was semi ok with Colledge (certainly not a fan) until last seasons debacle. I kept thinking the guy would eventually get it together. After watching that, I was done. I'd trade the guy for a ham sandwich. Spitz is an enigma. He has this tough guy reputation with the GB media. I don't see it, and am not sure I ever have. He's been hurt repeatedly. I still think the guy would be OK, if he stayed healthy. Good to great? Probably not, but an OK backup if healthy.

Yeah, they "should" be good. But we've been saying that for 3 years now. It's time. They had better play well. No more excuses not to do that.

[Pugger]

I remember hearing good things about the tackle Chris Campbell earlier this summer. Does anyone know anything about him? I'll have to watch for him tomorrow night. I agree Colledge and Barbre should be shown the door on the first cut down days. As far as Moll and Meredith and Buffalo liking them, is there anybody else on their roster that is appreciably better?

[vince]

Campbell is a big guy (6'5", 325) and not fat, but a project who needs to get stronger and is hoping to make the practice squad. In following practice tweets, he has gotten blown-up more than he's won battles. A work in progress who may not flash enough to keep on the PS over McDonald and/or Newhouse if he doesn't make the team.

Could develop some day. Could be Breno Part Deux. Although Breno was closer to 300 than 325 when he came out.