Coaching Tree

[Smidgeon]

So in what coaching tree is M3? Despite what the included blog post says, I heard once that all coaches fit in an already established coaching tree. So in what tree is M3? Developmentally or systematically?

A Tree Grows in Green Bay (http://www.jerseyal.com/GBP/2010/08/25/packers-coach-mike-mccarthy-a-tree-grows-in-green-bay/)

[vince]

Nice article. Thanks for posting it Smidge.

McCarthy considers himself a disciple of Paul Hackett, who coached mostly in college. McCarthy started with him at Pitt if I'm not mistaken. Hackett also was offenswive coordinator with the Chiefs and gave McCarthy his first NFL job there. I'll look him up to get some more info.

[vince]

Paul Hackett

Hackett began his coaching career at his alma mater, UC Davis, in 1969, assisting the freshmen in the first year and then directing them to a 13-0 mark over the next two seasons under College Football Hall of Fame coach Jim Sochor. He then was an assistant at California for four years (1972-75), the first season as a graduate assistant, the next as the receivers coach and the final two as the quarterbacks coach. Then, at age 29, he moved to USC for five years (1976-80) as an assistant coach under John Robinson; Hackett would succeed Robinson at USC after the latter's second tenure as head coach.[1]

From 1989 to 1992 he led the University of Pittsburgh Panthers. He replaced Mike Gottfried whom he had served as offensive coordinator, just prior to the 1989 Sun Bowl which resulted in a Pitt victory over Texas A&M.

Between his two head coaching stints, Hackett served as the offensive coordinator for the Kansas City Chiefs from 1993 to 1997. The Chiefs made the playoffs four of five seasons, ranking fifth in offense in his last year.

Hackett was head coach at USC from 1998 until 2000, prior to Pete Carroll taking over. During the first season he guided the Trojans to the Sun Bowl; losing in a major upset to TCU. Hackett's final two years at the school were difficult, as the fans and alumni base turned against him.[2] His 1999 and 2000 Trojans football teams were the first USC teams to have consecutive non-winning seasons since 1960-61.[3] The 2000 team was tied for last place in the Pacific-10 Conference.[1] His winning percentage as USC coach was .514, compared to the school's then all-time win percentage of .691.[4] USC fired Hackett on November 27, 2000; to do so, it spent $800,000 to buy out the remaining two years of his five-year, $3.5-million contract.[5][6] Hackett felt he was clearly not given enough time to rebuild and develop his recruits, such as Carson Palmer. "In two years, I expect to see this team explode," he said.[7]

After leaving USC - as their head coach, Hackett served as the offensive coordinator for the New York Jets from 2001 to 2004. He resigned from the team after the 2004 season and was the Tampa Bay quarterbacks coach from 2005 to 2007. Currently, Hackett works as the quarterback coach for the Oakland Raiders.

Here's a blurb from McCarthy's bio on Packers.com

After his playing career as a tight end at Baker University (Kan.) ended, his 23-year coaching career began as a linebackers coach at Fort Hays State (Kan.) in 1987. He cracked the Division I ranks two years later as a volunteer assistant at the University of Pittsburgh.

It was there he displayed the will and determination to make it in the coaching profession, working for free on the football field by day and collecting tolls along the Pennsylvania turnpike during the graveyard shift to make ends meet.

He soon moved into a paid position at Pitt assisting with the quarterbacks, and then coaching the wide receivers, before Panthers head coach Paul Hackett recommended him to the Kansas City Chiefs when they hired Hackett as offensive coordinator in 1993. McCarthy joined Hackett on the Chiefs’ staff as a quality-control assistant.

McCarthy considers Hackett the biggest influence in his coaching career, having learned the West Coast offense from him and then installing it himself as offensive coordinator in New Orleans.

It was under Hackett’s wing that McCarthy developed the attention to detail, scouting and game-planning skills that would help him move up the NFL ranks.

[vince]

Funny thing is, I don't think there is more than one guy who might say that he's a disciple of Mike McCarthy some day. Tom Clements is the only guy on the offensive coaching staff who seems to have head coaching potential.

There are a few on the guys on the defensive side, but I'm not sure they'd ever look back and credit McCarthy for being their primary mentor. I'll be surprised if Winston Moss gets a Defensive Coordinator gig anytime soon, much less becomes a successful head coach some day...

This tree has no branches.

[Patler]

Funny thing is, I don't think there is more than one guy who might say that he's a disciple of Mike McCarthy some day. Tom Clements is the only guy on the offensive coaching staff who seems to have head coaching potential.

There are a few on the guys on the defensive side, but I'm not sure they'd ever look back and credit McCarthy for being their primary mentor. I'll be surprised if Winston Moss gets a Defensive Coordinator gig anytime soon, much less becomes a successful head coach some day...

This tree has no branches.

And apparently no roots, either.

[swede]

Gentlemen, what we have here is a log.

[Smidgeon]

Funny thing is, I don't think there is more than one guy who might say that he's a disciple of Mike McCarthy some day. Tom Clements is the only guy on the offensive coaching staff who seems to have head coaching potential.

There are a few on the guys on the defensive side, but I'm not sure they'd ever look back and credit McCarthy for being their primary mentor. I'll be surprised if Winston Moss gets a Defensive Coordinator gig anytime soon, much less becomes a successful head coach some day...

This tree has no branches.

Someone asked Bedard that in a chat recently. He listed McAdoo along with Clements on offense, then a few on defense. But I don't know who would be a McCarthy disciple either. But it really depends on his success as a coach overall. Take the team to a couple superbowls, win one or two, and you'll have people branching off him like crazy. Success after branching not always guaranteed.

[Patler]

Funny thing is, I don't think there is more than one guy who might say that he's a disciple of Mike McCarthy some day. Tom Clements is the only guy on the offensive coaching staff who seems to have head coaching potential.

There are a few on the guys on the defensive side, but I'm not sure they'd ever look back and credit McCarthy for being their primary mentor. I'll be surprised if Winston Moss gets a Defensive Coordinator gig anytime soon, much less becomes a successful head coach some day...

This tree has no branches.

Someone asked Bedard that in a chat recently. He listed McAdoo along with Clements on offense, then a few on defense. But I don't know who would be a McCarthy disciple either. But it really depends on his success as a coach overall. Take the team to a couple superbowls, win one or two, and you'll have people branching off him like crazy. Success after branching not always guaranteed.

I doubt Clements would consider himself a disciple of McCarthy.
Clements got his start in coaching under Lou Holtz at Notre Dame. He came to the NFL under Ditka. He also coached for the Steelers under Cowher. He had a pretty good coaching resume before coming to GB. He hesitated coming to GB Because he wanted to be available for positions better than QB coach, having already been an O.C. in Buffalo.

Clements was one of the few assistant coaches hired by MM that I liked at the time.

[swede]

Funny thing is, I don't think there is more than one guy who might say that he's a disciple of Mike McCarthy some day. Tom Clements is the only guy on the offensive coaching staff who seems to have head coaching potential.

There are a few on the guys on the defensive side, but I'm not sure they'd ever look back and credit McCarthy for being their primary mentor. I'll be surprised if Winston Moss gets a Defensive Coordinator gig anytime soon, much less becomes a successful head coach some day...

This tree has no branches.

Someone asked Bedard that in a chat recently. He listed McAdoo along with Clements on offense, then a few on defense. But I don't know who would be a McCarthy disciple either. But it really depends on his success as a coach overall. Take the team to a couple superbowls, win one or two, and you'll have people branching off him like crazy. Success after branching not always guaranteed.

Thanks for adding your two cents, Smidge. Your two cents beat Bedard's errant scribblings any day.

To me, McCarthy's positives are offensive creativity, organization, and fair, firm leadership.

His negatives are questionable decisions during the heat of the battle come game day and a tendency to hire and stick with unimpressive coaches. I honestly don't know if Philbin brings much to the table besides carrying out MM's ideas, but Philbin at least seems to be pretty good at doing that.

I almost think that TT must have directed MM to bring on Dom Capers, since the hiring of a strong, experienced, and successful coach is so out of character for MM.

The elevation of Slocum was a more typical MM move, as would be the retention of Slocum despite any future statistical evidence that we suck at special teams.

This tree can't grow with the feeble stock MM tends to hire, and Dom was grafted on in full fruit.

[Smidgeon]

In my amateur eyes, if I was to look for a future head coach, I'd look to see what position coaches are excelling at improving their positional players. If a coach can't get a small number of players to improve or stay on task, how are they going to manage a team?

In that respect, I can start with McAdoo (TEs), Bennett (RBs), Robinson (WRs), and Clements (QBs) as prospectives on offense as their "keeper" players are always improving across the board.

On defense, the jury remains out on most of them for me since I didn't follow them before GB as coaches and I've only seen one season of results.

But to be honest, it could just be they're on this list because a) they are really good teachers and b) they're teaching a position they knew inside and out. But it's promising to me that I can trust McAdoo to get the most out of his TEs, that I can trust Bennett to teach his backs to pass block effectively, and that the WRs will always be exciting. It's hard to find out where Clements ends and McCarthy begins when it comes to the QBs, but I can't believe that the QBs are solely McCarthy's doing either.

[Smidgeon]

To complete the thought:

McAdoo, Bennett, Robinson, and Clements wouldn't be where I end on "head coach potential." Rather, I don't think anyone else on the offensive staff does (unsure about Philbin, but leaning not). There are a lot of steps between coaching a unit and coaching a team, but they've so far shown themselves to be competent leaders, and that's a necessary part to coaching.

[mraynrand]

Speaking of coaching trees, did anyone notice that Chuck Cecil has become a rather large branch in TN? He's defensive coordinator after a decade of moving up in the organization. So far, only Gregg William (Buffalo) and Jim Schwartz (Lions) have head coached off that tree, but Williams' stock is obviously a lot higher than is was after Buffalo. But you never know - some guys are destined to be OC or DC lifers...

[vince]

There is a lot different between head coaching and position coaching as you said Smidge.

Robinson, for example, is a great technician with strong attention to detail, but it takes a big leap (in my eyes anyway) to go from a whip-cracking receivers coach already in his late 50's, working with a small group, never been anything but a receivers coach before, to a head coach responsible for a large group, overseeing/leading multiple coaches and players across the board. If he hasn't even been a coordinator by now, it'll never happen IMO.

And until Bennett and McAdoo at least show some coaching range and upward mobilitiy, I can't see it for them yet either (not that it won't happen).

[Patler]

There is a lot different between head coaching and position coaching as you said Smidge.

Robinson, for example, is a great technician with strong attention to detail, but it takes a big leap (in my eyes anyway) to go from a whip-cracking receivers coach already in his late 50's, working with a small group, never been anything but a receivers coach before, to a head coach responsible for a large group, overseeing/leading multiple coaches and players across the board. If he hasn't even been a coordinator by now, it'll never happen IMO.

And until Bennett and McAdoo at least show some coaching range and upward mobilitiy, I can't see it for them yet either (not that it won't happen).

McAdoo has, to some extent. Went from the entry "quality control" gopher positions to various assistant positions (assistant O-line, assistant TEs & tackles, etc) to now being the position coach. He's still young and could have a nice future. If Finley becomes a star, McAdoo will gain reputation as a coach.

Bennett I think is a fantastic coach for the backs, but he hasn't done much else, or been anywhere but GB. He needs to branch out if he wants to move up. From a fans view, I hope he likes it in GB and stays there.

[bobblehead]

Gentlemen, what we have here is a log.

Technically a post I would think. I also think if we win a superbowl we suddenly grow limbs. Just as I said to old cliff christl back in the day when he said we had no game changers. I thought we had too many holes and if we started winning we would suddenly start calling guys like Kampman and Jennings game changers. (of course we didn't have finley back then, and he will be the ultimate game changer this season).

[pbmax]

I almost think that TT must have directed MM to bring on Dom Capers, since the hiring of a strong, experienced, and successful coach is so out of character for MM.
That may be a bit unfair, Swede. While its entirely possible that TT was in favor of throwing Bob Sanders off a bridge into the Fox River, McCarthy's first choice for DC was Jim Bates. He also interviewed all the name coaches the year he hired Capers.

Packer Update, for what its worth, mentioned last year that one byproduct of McCarthy's relative unknown stature in Head Coaching circles was a hampered asst. coaches search in his first go around. They attributed his success in luring Capers (and Trgovac, Greene and Perry) to his job during the 13-3 year, surviving Favre-a-palooza and having a five year contract. He also clearly has a better reputation now for his skill as an offensive coach and game planner.

For what its worth, Paul Hackett learned the West Coast Offense from Bill Walsh. McCarthy is off that tree. But many of his other philosophies derive from Marty Schottenheimer. He is a root stem hybrid.

[pbmax]

Speaking of coaching trees, did anyone notice that Chuck Cecil has become a rather large branch in TN? He's defensive coordinator after a decade of moving up in the organization. So far, only Gregg William (Buffalo) and Jim Schwartz (Lions) have head coached off that tree, but Williams' stock is obviously a lot higher than is was after Buffalo. But you never know - some guys are destined to be OC or DC lifers...
Chuck better hope to have a better year, this year. Their D struggled in 09.