The "25" on defense.

[Patler]

With a few question marks of relative insignificance, it seems fairly easy to come up with 25 for the final roster on offense. However, I find the 25 for defense a little more of a head-scratcher. Start out with the "safe bets" absent a trade (Bishop, perhaps).

D line - Picket, Raji, Jenkins, Neal, Harrell
LBs - Mathews, Hawk, Barnett, Jones, Chillar, Bishop
CBs - Woodson, Williams, Shields, Lee
Safeties - Collins, Burnett

That's 17, with room for 8 more.

I purposely left Underwood off. I think there is more of an issue there than they have let on. The shoulder injury might be an excuse to move him to IR, sort of like they did with Lee last year. Tuck him safely away for a year, to get his potential legal issue behind him or at least clarified, and to develop as a player, hopefully.

Need 1 or 2 more D-line. Is it Wilson? Wynn? Both?

Need 2 or 3 more LBs. Poppinga? Zombo? Obiozor? Francois/Josephs? (don't forget Havner here as well, making 8 more likely)

Need at least 1 more corner, maybe 2. Bush is the next man up.

Need at least 1 more safety to get you through the first six weeks until Bigby is available, but you might keep as many as three, Peprah, Martin and Blackmon. Blackmon can at least line up at corner in a pinch.

Is Wilson more valuable now and in the future than Zombo, or Obiozor, or Balckmon (with his NFL injury history)? Is Wynn? How about Peprah vs. Martin? Either or both relative to a 9th or 10th LB? etc. etc.

There are a lot of possible variations, with 6 or 7 D-line, 8-10 LBs, 9-11 DBs divided somehow between corners and safeties.

[vince]

I'm not so sure Lee's a safe bet. He was playing behind Bush and Shields on 3rd team with D.J. Clark in practice yesterday.

DL - One more. Wilson or Wynn. Impossible to know which one has distinguished himself over the other. Toribio has had his moments, but would appear to be a longshot.

LB - Pops, Zombo and Obi

DB - I'd give it to Peprah, Martin, and Blackmon - assuming he's healthy enough. Unfortunately, there's room for Bush.

[Patler]

I'm not so sure Lee's a safe bet. He was playing behind Bush and Shields on 3rd team with D.J. Clark in practice yesterday.

Not sure if this was a demotion of Lee (especially relative to Bush). Sometimes I think that is done when they are undecided about the guys they "move up" Just an opportunity to see them with better players and perhaps against better players.

Lee was playing well last year before he was injured. He seems to be coming around slowly this year. He hasn't looked "bad", but hasn't really done anything to stand out either. Maybe he isn't a good fit in Capers' defense. I hope he plays a lot this week.

Has Lee returned kicks at all this year? He looked decent at it in the past.

[vince]

I'm not so sure Lee's a safe bet. He was playing behind Bush and Shields on 3rd team with D.J. Clark in practice yesterday.

Not sure if this was a demotion of Lee (especially relative to Bush). Sometimes I think that is done when they are undecided about the guys they "move up" Just an opportunity to see them with better players and perhaps against better players.

Lee was playing well last year before he was injured. He seems to be coming around slowly this year. He hasn't looked "bad", but hasn't really done anything to stand out either. Maybe he isn't a good fit in Capers' defense. I hope he plays a lot this week.

Has Lee returned kicks at all this year? He looked decent at it in the past.
I seem to recall him returning one kickoff late in the first or second preseason game, but it was a nondescript return obviously. It may have even been Family Night I'm remembering. I feel the same way about Lee. Based on what I've seen, he hasn't done much, but hasn't been overly bad eitehr - but he just seems to have fallen out of favor with the coaching staff. Depending on Underwood's status, he's probably safe.

[vince]

I'm looking forward to seeing more of Sam Shields. We're going to get some bad with him. Hopefully, we also get some good.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Lee had a kickoff return. I remember thinking he looked pretty fast.

[vince]

I went back and looked. Lee returned the last kickoff with about 1:20 left of the Cleveland game. He dropped the kick before returning it to about the 24 yd. line. Not real memorable.

[red]

i've said it before and i'll continue to say it. if bush makes this team as a CB, then TT has failed big time this offseason IMO

the guy is just a walking disaster on defense

[Tony Oday]

i've said it before and i'll continue to say it. if bush makes this team as a CB, then TT has failed big time this offseason IMO

the guy is just a walking disaster on defense

Except getting the Starting SS in the draft and the future LT...yeah failed

[Brandon494]

Don't forget about Underwood also at CB.

[Fritz]

Lee has been the big, big mystery for me. Two years injured, yes, but two years in the NFL, a year to study Capers's system. And maybe he's not a "fit" since they drafted him as a press corner, but somehow I think if you're athletic you can make that switch - Al Harris did. I mean, if you're a corner drafted in the second round, you should be pretty athletic.

My hope is that Patler is right - he's safe, they know what they have, they need to find out about Underwear and Shields.

My impression in very limited viewing is that Lee looks....okay. Just kinda there. Not horrible, no huge bombs-over-my-head-for-a-touchdown, but no playmaking and not even tight coverage where he bats a ball away.

So I don't know what to make of him. I'd love to be a fly on the wall and listen to what the coaches have to say about him..

I kinda think they keep Peprah and Martin. If Chery shows good hands and decent decision-making and even a little wiggle as a returner Thursday, I think Blackmon will be in real danger. His knee keeps swelling up on him..

I have to think they keep Poopinga because they know what they've got and he can plug in and do a couple things okay enough. I'm fascinated by the Obiozor/Zombop/maybe Francois battle. Hope someone who gets to see the game will keep en eye on Francois and report to us.

I'm going to guess they keep Wynn and try to get Wison on the PS.

Jarrett Bush. Wow. Maybe he sticks, at least until Harris and/or Bibgy come back. But it may come down to Blackmon OR Bush.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I actually wouldn't be scared shitless if we had to roll with Martin or Peprah. I think those guys are veteran enough and athletic enough that we can at least hide them.
:D

The nickel/dime situation scares me. So does the situation at OLB--with both Matthews and Jones missing most of camp.

Neal and, to a lesser extent, Harrell have actually alleviated some concerns on the DL for me.

[retailguy]

I think Bush is our new nickel back. Safety is going to have to help, which will impact both corner blitz and safety blitz. Makes the line play more important.

[Joemailman]

I actually wouldn't be scared shitless if we had to roll with Martin or Peprah. I think those guys are veteran enough and athletic enough that we can at least hide them.
:D

The nickel/dime situation scares me. So does the situation at OLB--with both Matthews and Jones missing most of camp.

Neal and, to a lesser extent, Harrell have actually alleviated some concerns on the DL for me.

Just rewatched the 1st half of the Indy game. Mike Neal was the best D-Lineman on the field. He should play quite a bit in the nickel, as well as giving Jenkins a break from time to time in base. He has more pass rush ability than I expected him to have as a rookie.

[Lurker64]

Just rewatched the 1st half of the Indy game. Mike Neal was the best D-Lineman on the field. He should play quite a bit in the nickel, as well as giving Jenkins a break from time to time in base. He has more pass rush ability than I expected him to have as a rookie.

Neal was really, really good in that game. I wouldn't be surprised if he is pushing for a starting job at some point in the midseason. But I feel really good about having him as the first man in on the DL, and having him be one of the two in the nickel.

[vince]

The way Darren Perry talks, Peprah and Martin are both making the squad for sure. They're not counting on Blackmon one iota at safety.
http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20100901/PKR01/100901141/With-Bigby-injured-Packers-face-difficulty-at-safety

With Atari Bigby injured, Green Bay Packers face difficulty at safety

For the second consecutive year, the Green Bay Packers have depth issues at safety heading into the season.

They placed Atari Bigby, an opening-day starter last season, on the reserve/physically unable to perform list on Tuesday, meaning he will miss at least the first six games. Will Blackmon’s move from cornerback has been stalled by recurring knee problems, and their best remaining backups — Derrick Martin and Charlie Peprah — are better known for their play on special teams.

What’s more, they plan to start a rookie, third-round draft pick Morgan Burnett, alongside Pro Bowler Nick Collins.

The situation resembles last season, when General Manager Ted Thompson’s decision to cut Anthony Smith backfired after Bigby got hurt in the opener. The Packers started Aaron Rouse in Week 2, and he was so bad against Cincinnati that Thompson cut him a few days later. They were so thin at safety that defensive coordinator Dom Capers devised a variation of his base defense called “Big Okie” that featured linebacker Brandon Chillar in the defensive backfield.

“I think we’ve got better depth than we did last year,” Capers said Tuesday following the final practice of training camp. “I was concerned about our depth last year, and it proved itself out in those first four games when Atari went out in the opener, and we ended up making a roster move after the second game and next thing you know we’ve got a linebacker playing safety.”

Perhaps safety will be a position Thompson tries to improve via the waiver wire or a cut-day trade on Saturday. The later was how he got Martin from Baltimore last season in exchange for offensive lineman Tony Moll. That didn’t help at the time, considering when Martin was forced into the starting lineup in Week 4 at Minnesota, he got burned so badly that he was yanked in the third quarter.

The coaches insist Martin is far better this season because he’s had an entire training camp in the system.

“That was really probably unfair for us to expect him to come in and roll the way we needed the guy to fill in for us,” safeties coach Darren Perry said. “That was tough, but we’ve learned from it, and I think Derrick will be much better prepared this year in case something happens.”

The same could be said for Peprah, who injured his knee after the first preseason game last year and was eventually waived injured.

“He’s had a full camp, and the thing I’ve noticed with Charlie compared to last year is he’s moving a lot better,” Perry said. “It seems like he’s finally healthy. He’s a sharp guy mentally and can handle all the defenses we throw out there. He’s a guy you trust and feel comfortable if you have to put him in the game and play with him.”

The only other safety on the roster is rookie free agent Anthony Levine of Tennessee State. He looks good enough to keep around on the practice squad but doesn’t appear ready to play.

“I think they’re comfortable with the depth; I think they should be,” Peprah said. “I feel like me and Derrick are both athletes.”

The Packers drafted Burnett because they wanted to upgrade the position, which has been shaky the last two seasons because of injuries to Bigby, and they didn’t expect to be in this bind. They had no idea Bigby would need ankle surgery. He skipped the entire offseason program because he was looking for a long-term contract and when he finally signed his restricted free agent tender, the team discovered his ankle was in bad shape. By going on PUP, he must sit out at least the first six games. He can’t practice during that time so even if he’s cleared to return at the start of Week 7, he’ll likely need a week or two of work before he can play.

“Atari’s going to be a while,” Perry said. “You’ve got Derrick and Charlie, and we’ve got to roll with that. They’ve got to be ready to play. Obviously injuries are part of the game, but you hope your starters stay healthy, and you don’t have to rely on the backups. But they’ve got to be ready at all times because we went through that process last year, so we should be much better prepared.”

[pbmax]

I actually wouldn't be scared shitless if we had to roll with Martin or Peprah. I think those guys are veteran enough and athletic enough that we can at least hide them.
:D

The nickel/dime situation scares me. So does the situation at OLB--with both Matthews and Jones missing most of camp.

Neal and, to a lesser extent, Harrell have actually alleviated some concerns on the DL for me.

Just rewatched the 1st half of the Indy game. Mike Neal was the best D-Lineman on the field. He should play quite a bit in the nickel, as well as giving Jenkins a break from time to time in base. He has more pass rush ability than I expected him to have as a rookie.
Didn't Jenkins miss the game? I thought Neal took all his snaps.

I think Lee might make it only on CB numbers and that might be affected by trade. My hope that he makes it remains unchanged, but he has made no one notice him this preseason.

Of course, I thought the same thing about Obiozor and now Bedard has piped up that Obi is more memorable than Zombo.

[Ballboy]

My whole fear is that for the first few weeks of the year, our defense could look and be ranked #1....only because the teams we are facing may-have offensive problems:

WK1 - Philly, Kevin Kolb
WK2 - Buffalo, do they have a QB?
WK3 - Chicago, have a QB, but Oline is horrible, Matthews needs to be ready for this game.
WK4 - Lions, Stafford and Johnson are a hot duo for this year, maybe the D's first real test.
WK5 - Washington, new coach, McNabb at QB. Hasn't looked good so far.
WK6 - Dolphins - more concerned about rushing attack than passing.

After week 6 we get Minny(if Brett is still limping on the field); NYJets(Sanchez has looked bad, RT guard is bad, Holmes will be back) and then Cowboys.

Will TT be fooled into thinking we have a good defense after the first few weeks and then not make any moves at OLB, DB or S......is he thinking that Al and Atari will be back for the Minny game and secure the defense?