Unexpected GB praise from an ESPN turd

[Cobra Kai]

Was listening to ESPN Radio on the way home and they had John Clayton on the Sports Bash...

They were talking about McCarthy "calling" out Farve regarding the 5 INTs on Monday. And blah blah blah same old crap...

But then Clayton said something I didn't expect from any of the ESPN know-it-alls (especially after the GB and Favre dissing they seem to be doing lately), he said that after watching the GB pratice he thought the Pack was a lot better than he anticipated and that they could suprise people this year!!!

Now I know that JC doesn't carry much weight in this forum (I really don't care much for him myself) but its gotta be a good sign when a ESPN talking head praises GB after admintting he had a low opinion of this year's team. Right???

[Bretsky]

Good Points; I was listening too. He said going into GB he was expecting a team to look like another 4-12 campaign, but after witnessing some of the youthful talent he can see 7-8 wins.

He discussed TT's players that looked very sharp. He did say last year's draft doesn't look like much at this point, but he was really impressed by the athletic ability and how fluid AJ Hawk and Jennings looked.

Also said GB is sitting real good cap wise going forward.

It was nice to hear.

[MJZiggy]

It will be interesting to see what he says about GB from this point forward. If he continues hating, then we can just add hypocrite to the rest of the stuff we call him. If he praises nationally, then do we assume he's opened his eyes or that he's just as much of an idiot as he's made himself out to be all along? I prefer consistency myself. :neutral:

[Homer Jay]

I'm really not bothered when some of the talking heads write off the Packers. It's their job to say what they believe, whether I agree or not. What does bother me is when they don't even consider any of the injuries that happened last year. So, it is nice to hear something good from Clayton, but it still sounds like he believes injuries had nothing to do with last years record

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm really not bothered when some of the talking heads write off the Packers. It's their job to say what they believe, whether I agree or not.

Bingo! Don't get bothered buy it, but don't buy into it either. I bet the ESPN "experts" have been wrong on their consensus playoff teams close to 50% of the time over the last few years.

[BallHawk]

I hate Sean Salisbury.

[No Mo Moss]

You all know my stance on the EsPN crew, I try to disregard it when its positive as much as I do when its negative. This however gives me a good feeling. I thought the homerism had become terminal and that no matter how hard I tried I would only see a 7-10 win team while everyone else thought maybe 4 wins. Clayton coming around atleast gives me some hope, but my god its early.

That said I will say that during Sherman's tenure the reviews were alway quite grimm this time of year and into the preseason. Well hell, into the season even. This is encouraging.

[red]

i've seen a few places this last week that are starting to have a little respect for the pack again. i even read a magazine that had us 2nd in the nfc north )but only with a 7=9 record).

right after the draft everyone was saying we'd be drafting right up at the top again next year, and some were saying we would somehow be worse then last year.

but over the last few weeks people have started to see what us kool-aid drinkers have been seeing and saying. there is some talent on this team, last year was a fluke, and we won't be at the bottom of the nfl again this year

WE'RE BACK ON THE UPSWING BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bretsky]

Tuesday Mortenson and Theisman and Simms were on ESPN radio also praising MM for his efforts to subtly send Favre a message.

[Partial]

Was listening to ESPN Radio on the way home and they had John Clayton on the Sports Bash...

They were talking about McCarthy "calling" out favre regarding the 5 INTs on Monday. And blah blah blah same old crap...

But then Clayton said something I didn't expect from any of the ESPN know-it-alls (especially after the GB and Favre dissing they seem to be doing lately), he said that after watching the GB pratice he thought the Pack was a lot better than he anticipated and that they could suprise people this year!!!

Now I know that JC doesn't carry much weight in this forum (I really don't care much for him myself) but its gotta be a good sign when a ESPN talking head praises GB after admintting he had a low opinion of this year's team. Right???

Awesome avatar, great to have you here bro

[ny10804]

Well, seeing as John Clayton will be writing the Packers' training camp report -- link (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp06/index) -- I can expect to hear good things.

By the way, that report will be available by tomorrow.

[Cobra Kai]

I'm really not bothered when some of the talking heads write off the Packers. It's their job to say what they believe, whether I agree or not.

Bingo! Don't get bothered buy it, but don't buy into it either. I bet the ESPN "experts" have been wrong on their consensus playoff teams close to 50% of the time over the last few years.

I agree with both of you. Its hard to put much stock into what any "expert" says good or bad, especially an ESPN "expert".

BUT regardless of your opinion of these guys, you have to admit when you hear a compliment about your team from them it gives you a warm fuzzy. It kinda validates the kool-aid...

[MJZiggy]

Can someone post that when it becomes available?

[Scott Campbell]

I'm not sure what I believe from these national guys. It's summer, and at some point they seem to pander to every teams fans.

[ND72]

GREEN BAY, Wis. -- Here are five observations on the Green Bay Packers, based on camp practices of Aug. 3:


1. Aaron Rodgers' practice play might help stop some of the rampant criticism the second-year quarterback has been facing. He looks so much better than last summer. He's more confident stepping into throws and appears more in control this summer. He knows the preseason will be important because it likely will be his only playing time.
Now that Brett Favre is back, pro football's ironman isn't expected to open up any playing time for Rodgers unless there is an injury or a blowout. Rodgers waits, and it's a painful wait. He's bothered by the national criticism and has little opportunity to change those opinions. All he has is four preseason games and maybe six quarters of action to show improvement and potential. Veterans around the locker room aren't sold Favre will retire at the end of this season. Some think he may have another season in him after this year. To quiet some of the critics, Rodgers needs to play well in the preseason games.



2. Ahman Green is a week or two away from returning from his ruptured quad injury. Those are tough injuries for running backs to come back from. Some backs think those injuries are trickier than ACL tears. Naturally, the organization is cautious in making sure it doesn't put Green out there too early. Head coach Mike McCarthy was convinced to give Green another chance because of his character and hard work. Green spent the entire offseason in Green Bay rehabbing and training.
"Soon enough I will be out there running and getting tackled," Green said.

Green can't wait to be back on the field, and his return is important. Without a running game, the Packers were one dimensional.

"You still need to run the ball to win games and championships," Green said. "You saw how tough it was on us last year."

Green fits well into the running adjustments that are similar to systems used in Denver and Atlanta. But the Packers also need him for his leadership. Because the team is so young, leaders are hard to find. Green has been one of the team's best leaders, and they need him desperately.



3. McCarthy believes the Packers are five deep at tight end, and there is no doubt he will use them more. McCarthy is big on using tight ends. Offensive coordinator Jeff Jagodzinski is a former Packers tight ends coach. Bubba Franks has Pro Bowl skills, Donald Lee led all Packers tight ends with 33 catches last year and David Martin is a big target who can get downfield.
Favre likes to get rid of the ball quickly if there is a rush, and often, he'll dump it to a running back. Tight ends will probably get more involved in those situations. It's not known if the Packers will use less three-receiver sets than last year, but the return of the tight end is a given for this offense.



4. Wide receiver Greg Jennings is the talk of training camp. The second-round pick from Western Michigan is running routes with the efficiency of a veteran. He's catching everything. Jennings caught 74 and 98 passes, respectively, in his past two seasons in college. He's already jumped ahead of veterans like Rod Gardner and Marc Boerigter. Some believe he will eventually challenge Robert Ferguson, but that's for a later time. Jennings is one of the players to watch during the preseason.


5. Whatever happened to all that talk about the Packers using the Cover 2? Al Harris and Charles Woodson are lining up in press man-to-man coverage and are having a ball. Harris has always loved being on an island covering man-to-man. He's one of the best in the league at it. In recent years, Woodson has been more versatile. The Raiders even had him playing some safety last year to take advantage of his playmaking ability. Now he can line up on a receiver and have some fun.
The Packers are carrying over the aggressive defensive system of former defensive coordinator Jim Bates, and the revitalized speed on defense has everyone thrilled. The man-to-man approach should help Ahmad Carroll, who has been hampered by penalty flags the past two seasons. Carroll uses his hands too much on receivers, but he's even worse when he's playing off in zone coverage. Now that Carroll's just a third corner, there is less pressure on him, and the man-to-man approach may improve his play.

[ND72]

GREEN BAY, Wis. -- When Brett Favre said this Packers team is as talented as any he's been a part of, the national reaction was like he had just thrown another crazy interception.

You'd think after 15 seasons, people would learn to understand Favre, who might be pro football's most honest quote. He releases thoughts as quickly as he releases passes from a three-step drop. Critics jumped on the beginning of the quote and ignored the important ending.

Inside Packers camp
How did second-year QB Aaron Rodgers look? What's the status of RB Ahman Green? Those are just two of the things John Clayton touches on in his observations from Packers camp.

At Raiders camp a week ago, former Packers defensive lineman Sean Jones was saying roughly the same thing. Those Mike Holmgren Super Bowl teams had some great players, but they went to Super Bowls because their experience came together to win key games.

A visit to Packers camp proved Favre hasn't lost his vision. The Packers have a pretty good group of athletes. Second-round choice Greg Jennings should be at least the No. 3 receiver. Guards Daryn Colledge and Jason Spitz may be rookies, but they have plenty of talent. Linebacker A.J. Hawk is already a starter and a fan favorite. Free-agent acquisitions Charles Woodson (CB), Marquand Manuel (S) and Ryan Pickett (DT) should all be upgrades.


No, let's not start "The Pack Is Back" campaign yet, but it's clear that the franchise isn't dead. First-year head coach Mike McCarthy is restoring life to a proud team that hit the wall last season. Favre's mind wandered as he struggled through a 4-12 nightmare. Lambeau Field lost its ability to intimidate opponents. As the weather got cold, the Packers turned colder.

McCarthy is warming them with up-tempo practices. Padded evening practices are almost at full speed, missing only the tackling. Drills are lively. Compared to the reduced workload in other camps around the league, the Packers are probably doing as much hitting as any team. There are a lot of talented athletes on the field and it's clear the Packers have gained team speed.

It's also clear the Packers aren't as bad as those outside Lambeau think. Of course, Bill Parcells said it best: A winning coach has to pick the best 53 players, not the best 53 athletes. The Packers have athletes. McCarthy has to test them to see who the best players are.

"I saw Brett's interview on TV and everything he said word for word is the same thing I see," tight end Bubba Franks said. "This is the most athletes we've had here, and I'm in my seventh year. If we can get these young guys on the same page with the vets, we're going to surprise some people."


The biggest if is along the offensive line. College and Spitz may be young versions of Mike Wahle and Marco Rivera, but they are completely unproven. Athletically, they are fine. College is a tackle moving to guard and has the athletic ability to be a good pass blocker. Spitz is more of the mauler. With Adrian Klemm and Kevin Barry out for the season, the Packers have to rely on young players to come through to solidify the interior of the line.

If the offensive line can't come through, the offense could be a disaster.

What's exciting the Packers the most is the athleticism of the defense. Hawk showed his athleticism at practice, making a Brian Urlacher-type pursuit of a ball carrier to make a tackle. He has the speed to close on tackles and drop into coverage from the weakside linebacker position. Teaming Hawk with middle linebacker Nick Barnett puts the Packers two-thirds of the way toward having a top linebacking corps. The competition on the strong side is between Ben Taylor, Abdul Hodge and Brady Poppinga. Unlike the past couple of years, the Packers have options at linebacker.

The Packers have enough athletes on defense that they won't fall into the Cover 2 trend that's taking over the NFC North. Cornerbacks will be playing mainly man-to-man. Linebackers will be aggressive. Defensive linemen will fire up the field. The Packers are carrying over the aggressive Jim Bates defense from a year ago.

"We're using about 95 percent of last season," Barnett said. "It's the defense that allowed Jason Taylor to get all of those sacks [in Miami]. There will be a lot of third-down blitzing."

The addition of Woodson solidifies the Packers' pass coverage for the first time since the team traded Mike McKenzie to the Saints during the 2004 season. Woodson teams up with Al Harris, moving the oft-penalized Ahmad Carroll into the No. 3 cornerback role.

"Everybody is buying into everything here," Harris said. "We are going to be better than people think. Coach McCarthy is doing a lot of the things Andy Reid did when he first got to Philadelphia. He practices the same way as Coach Reid. It's fast tempo. Good teams have fast tempo. And I love the chance to man up on everything in coverage."


Under Bates last season, the Packers finished seventh on defense and No. 1 against the pass. The addition of Hawk, Woodson, Manuel, Pickett and others have upgraded that unit.

"This is going to be an attacking defense," Woodson said. "The defense is going to be man-to-man. I think we've got talent. We definitely have talent. I've been on talented teams that didn't win a damn thing because we couldn't get everybody on the same page all the time. The most important thing here is getting everybody on the same page."

McCarthy's biggest task -- and one of the reasons he was chosen as head coach -- is to rebuild the confidence of the franchise. General manager Ted Thompson knew McCarthy when he was in Green Bay as the quarterbacks coach. Favre likes McCarthy and vice versa. That was an important element, because it helped in getting Favre back for another season.

The Packers' offense has talent but the unit lost its confidence last season. They scored less than 20 points a game. Interceptions topped touchdown passes, 30 to 20. The offensive line was a mess, decimated by injuries and players leaving for other teams. The poor play of the line and injuries to Ahman Green and Najeh Davenport took away the running attack. Favre, playing from behind too often, forced too many interceptions.

Longtime Packers like McCarthy's fresh approach to the offense. In some ways he's giving Favre a little more freedom than Holmgren and Mike Sherman did. Though the system is still the West Coast offense and McCarthy teaches it in its purest form, McCarthy isn't as rigid with the progression system. He's allowing for more playmaking.

"Now, we are going deep," wide receiver Donald Driver said. "We're airing it out past 20 yards instead of just the short, underneath routes. He's trying to jump on people from the beginning. It's not more one, two, three progressions. Whoever wins against the defensive backs gets the ball."

One of the staples of the Packers' West Coast offense has always been the decoys. In most routes, one receiver would go deep to clear out an area for the intended receiver. With McCarthy, all the receivers are in play.

Naturally, the Packers don't have a receiver talented enough to replace Javon Walker, who was traded to Denver for a second-round choice. But his replacement on the roster is Jennings, who has been the early star of camp. He has deep speed and great hands. There's a chance he could challenge Robert Ferguson for starting time once the season begins.

"He's nice," Franks said of Jennings. "He's picking up the system like he was a veteran. We are going to score a lot of points. Our practices are tough, but what we went through last year, we needed it. We need to get that edge back. We don't lose on Lambeau. Guys were coming in here last year not scared to play on our field."

An opening home game against the Bears should be the perfect motivation. It gives the veterans incentive against a hated rival. It gives the rookies a quick understanding of the rivalries and tradition that come with playing for the Packers.


Favre's statement from earlier this week might not be that crazy. The Packers have talent. The challenge will be putting it all together.

"I think Brett sees some of the young guys and the speed," Thompson said of Favre's comments. "I wouldn't presume to compare us to the teams of the 1990s. You don't see Santana Dotson, Sean Jones, Reggie White and others. But you do see some pretty good players."

Maybe there is hope.