Why Havner was cut (poll)

[Mr. T]

What do all of you think? My vote is the DUI in May. Not a "Packer People" decision. Or maybe they were worried that Goodell would suspend him.

[falco]

I voted #3. I agree with Lurker (I think); a guy who is okay at everything doesn't beat out guys who are great at some things.

[bobblehead]

combo of 2 and 3. He wasn't really a threat to play D (did he last year?), and as a TE they liked the others better. Lets face it, the league doesn't mess with 2 way players anymore.

In hindsight I should have seen this coming, but I actually figured they would cut and PS Quarless before letting Havner go. Havner was productive if not spectacular.

[pbmax]

Interesting. Could there be a suspension looming for him? First offense, but he was caught red-handed. or broken shoulder bladed.

[packerbacker1234]

Guys, he is an excellent special teams player. Witht his, there is few ahead of him on the current roster. Special teams is our weakest point - he should of made it just for that value alone.

Fact remains that having havner allows you more flexibility with the roster. THey decided they didn't need that flexibility, despite the fact Havner never did anything to lose his job. He was great in his spot TE duties last year - he caught everything threw his way, generally, for big TD's.

He isn't a great LB, but he wasn't any worse than poppinga, who also made the roster.

[falco]

Interesting. Could there be a suspension looming for him? First offense, but he was caught red-handed. or broken shoulder bladed.

If that was the case, I would think he would be released before TC.

[digitaldean]

I voted #2.

I think he had good, not mediocre hands. He BY FAR has better hands than Donald Lee. The LB spot would've only been in an emergency role, but I still thought versatility was a bonus for him.

[mraynrand]

#3. Packers got better at TE. Were already better at LB. They have plenty of guys who can play teams just as well. Ah well, so much for the Havner conversion...

[Lurker64]

I think it's a pure numbers game thing. Let's face it, if Havner were to take significant snaps on defense this year we'd be fucked. You try not to keep too many players for their ability to play positions that you hope to god you never have to actually play them at. As a TE, he was average. Wasn't overly physical, wasn't overly athletic, ran decent routes but wasn't smooth, his best asset was that he had sticky hands in the endzone.

As a special teams player? Who knows. He was a hard worker, and that's always good on special teams... but our special teams last year was terrible, and by all indications our special teams this year don't look to be that much better. If we really had all these players who were great on special teams, why don't the special teams play better? If it's the coaching, we're not going to get a new ST coach in the middle of the season and it's unlikely that Havner alone would save the whole unit.

Havner got caught in a bind where there were two guys whose production they liked (Finley and Lee) and two guys whose potential they were enamored with (Quarless and Crabtree). Considering the object lesson in "let a TE develop" that was the first year of Jermichael Finley, I'm not surprised that Havner lost out to guys with more potential. It should be no surprise to anybody that Havner lost out to guys who were more productive on offense.

The real argument comes down to, if you were willing to keep 5 TEs (and I'm not sure the Packers were), who at a different position would you cut in order to to keep Havner?

[gbgary]

combo of 2 and 3. He wasn't really a threat to play D (did he last year?), and as a TE they liked the others better. Lets face it, the league doesn't mess with 2 way players anymore.

In hindsight I should have seen this coming, but I actually figured they would cut and PS Quarless before letting Havner go. Havner was productive if not spectacular.

these!

[digitaldean]

combo of 2 and 3. He wasn't really a threat to play D (did he last year?), and as a TE they liked the others better. Lets face it, the league doesn't mess with 2 way players anymore.

In hindsight I should have seen this coming, but I actually figured they would cut and PS Quarless before letting Havner go. Havner was productive if not spectacular.

these!

Quarless is raw and a bit of a headcase. But talent-wise, he has a ton of upside. He never would have made it to the PS. Someone would have snapped him up.

[RashanGary]

Crabtree is a better blocker and ST player. Quarless has much more potential.

Just wasn't room for 5 TE's and Lee wasn't getting cut.

[digitaldean]

True about Crabtree. It's good to see a street FA make the squad.

[Mr. T]

combo of 2 and 3. He wasn't really a threat to play D (did he last year?), and as a TE they liked the others better. Lets face it, the league doesn't mess with 2 way players anymore.

In hindsight I should have seen this coming, but I actually figured they would cut and PS Quarless before letting Havner go. Havner was productive if not spectacular.

7 catches last year (although 4 were TD's). 16 tackles last year. Apparently he's not a capable starter at LB (at least MM/Capers must have thought so). Too many people at the TE position with better physical tools.

[Lurker64]

True about Crabtree. It's good to see a street FA make the squad.

He was actually a street UDFA with the Chiefs last year (following the 2009 draft), and just looked terrible in camp. Got cut, and was on and off the Chiefs practice squad until the Packers picked him up to replace Trevor Ford (who was promoted to the roster) in December of last year. Apparently now he looks like a completely different player than he did with Kansas City, as previously reports were that he was uninterested in both blocking and catching.

Wouldn't be the first guy that getting cut and getting a change of scenery did wonders for (e.g. Daniel Muir is starting for the Colts and playing well) and it won't be the last.

The thing, I think, that really helps Green Bay sign these guys who are undrafted or otherwise rejects is that we seem to give them a fair shot to make the roster during camp if they work hard and do what the coaches ask them to do.

[falco]

True about Crabtree. It's good to see a street FA make the squad.

He was actually a street UDFA with the Chiefs last year (following the 2009 draft), and just looked terrible in camp. Got cut, and was on and off the Chiefs practice squad until the Packers picked him up to replace Trevor Ford (who was promoted to the roster) in December of last year. Apparently now he looks like a completely different player than he did with Kansas City, as previously reports were that he was uninterested in both blocking and catching.

Wouldn't be the first guy that getting cut and getting a change of scenery did wonders for (e.g. Daniel Muir is starting for the Colts and playing well) and it won't be the last.

The thing, I think, that really helps Green Bay sign these guys who are undrafted or otherwise rejects is that we seem to give them a fair shot to make the roster during camp if they work hard and do what the coaches ask them to do.

I thought Muir looked really good here, but was unfortunately here in 07 when we were so deep on the dline we had to let some good people go.

[Mr. T]

15 votes so far and no one has selected the last option. How telling of this board's change in attitude is this?! Remember 3 years ago?

Maybe I need to add "Mike Sherman is a genius."

[Lurker64]

I thought Muir looked really good here, but was unfortunately here in 07 when we were so deep on the dline we had to let some good people go.

My recollection is that Muir was a guy who had a ton of tools and potential, and was kept one year on the practice squad strictly as a developmental guy but in the second year he just didn't seem to be putting it together and got cut.

Apparently the JSO agrees with my recollection: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/83410847

[falco]

I thought Muir looked really good here, but was unfortunately here in 07 when we were so deep on the dline we had to let some good people go.

My recollection is that Muir was a guy who had a ton of tools and potential, and was kept one year on the practice squad strictly as a developmental guy but in the second year he just didn't seem to be putting it together and got cut.

Apparently the JSO agrees with my recollection: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/83410847

Maybe I am thinking of Larry Birdine(sp)?

[Patler]

I thought Muir looked really good here, but was unfortunately here in 07 when we were so deep on the dline we had to let some good people go.

My recollection is that Muir was a guy who had a ton of tools and potential, and was kept one year on the practice squad strictly as a developmental guy but in the second year he just didn't seem to be putting it together and got cut.

Apparently the JSO agrees with my recollection: http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/83410847

In an interview last year, Muir himself admitted that the Packers were right to cut him, that his approach was wrong. He admitted to giving poor efforts in GB. He said being released was a wake-up for him.

[Fritz]

combo of 2 and 3. He wasn't really a threat to play D (did he last year?), and as a TE they liked the others better. Lets face it, the league doesn't mess with 2 way players anymore.

In hindsight I should have seen this coming, but I actually figured they would cut and PS Quarless before letting Havner go. Havner was productive if not spectacular.

these!

Fans tend to think of cuts in relation to this year, right now, but in fact even in a potential SB year you need to be looking ahead.

No way Quarless makes to to the PS - he'd be picked up right away. And he's the closest you have in talent to Finley. The truth is, most NFL rookies are not really ready for the NFL. It takes time. He's the guy who can potentially replace Finley if Finley cannot be resigned for whatever reason. You can't cut Quarless with the potential he's shown in TC.

Did Graham Harrell make it? He's a guy I think might be in a similar class - he won't play if you're lucky but you can't afford to cut him.

Nicmk McDonald = biggest surprise. But someone has to be inactive on Sundays.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'm actually not surprised by this. I was actually thinking this might happen as I was out and about today. Kind of sad that I was thinking about Packer cuts while I was out and about.

[Pugger]

True about Crabtree. It's good to see a street FA make the squad.

He was actually a street UDFA with the Chiefs last year (following the 2009 draft), and just looked terrible in camp. Got cut, and was on and off the Chiefs practice squad until the Packers picked him up to replace Trevor Ford (who was promoted to the roster) in December of last year. Apparently now he looks like a completely different player than he did with Kansas City, as previously reports were that he was uninterested in both blocking and catching.

Wouldn't be the first guy that getting cut and getting a change of scenery did wonders for (e.g. Daniel Muir is starting for the Colts and playing well) and it won't be the last.

The thing, I think, that really helps Green Bay sign these guys who are undrafted or otherwise rejects is that we seem to give them a fair shot to make the roster during camp if they work hard and do what the coaches ask them to do.

Shields and Zombo are perfect examples of this.

[bobblehead]

combo of 2 and 3. He wasn't really a threat to play D (did he last year?), and as a TE they liked the others better. Lets face it, the league doesn't mess with 2 way players anymore.

In hindsight I should have seen this coming, but I actually figured they would cut and PS Quarless before letting Havner go. Havner was productive if not spectacular.

these!

Fans tend to think of cuts in relation to this year, right now, but in fact even in a potential SB year you need to be looking ahead.

No way Quarless makes to to the PS - he'd be picked up right away. And he's the closest you have in talent to Finley. The truth is, most NFL rookies are not really ready for the NFL. It takes time. He's the guy who can potentially replace Finley if Finley cannot be resigned for whatever reason. You can't cut Quarless with the potential he's shown in TC.

Did Graham Harrell make it? He's a guy I think might be in a similar class - he won't play if you're lucky but you can't afford to cut him.

Nicmk McDonald = biggest surprise. But someone has to be inactive on Sundays.

I think you, and most of us, are higher on Quarless than most GM's. He did last until the later part of the 5th round.

[Smidgeon]

True about Crabtree. It's good to see a street FA make the squad.

He was actually a street UDFA with the Chiefs last year (following the 2009 draft), and just looked terrible in camp. Got cut, and was on and off the Chiefs practice squad until the Packers picked him up to replace Trevor Ford (who was promoted to the roster) in December of last year. Apparently now he looks like a completely different player than he did with Kansas City, as previously reports were that he was uninterested in both blocking and catching.

Wouldn't be the first guy that getting cut and getting a change of scenery did wonders for (e.g. Daniel Muir is starting for the Colts and playing well) and it won't be the last.

The thing, I think, that really helps Green Bay sign these guys who are undrafted or otherwise rejects is that we seem to give them a fair shot to make the roster during camp if they work hard and do what the coaches ask them to do.

McAdoo for best assistant coach in division?

[Lurker64]

I think you, and most of us, are higher on Quarless than most GM's. He did last until the later part of the 5th round.

How much of that, do you suppose, is the fact that he just had character red flags coming out the wazoo? The thing about the underage DUI, the thing about the marijuana in his apt., the fact that Joe Paterno was ready to kick him off the team? Guys often fall in the draft just because they're viewed as a significant risk. I mean, through the preseason Mike Williams looks like the best WR drafted last April, and he lasted until the fourth round because he literally quit on his team last year.

[mmmdk]

Havner maxed out but at least he actually reached his max...will those potential more talented TEs reach their max????

[HarveyWallbangers]

What are these guys going to do with their Favre turned Havner jerseys?
:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2PBbNXXlKE

[KYPack]

What are these guys going to do with their Favre turned Havner jerseys?
:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2PBbNXXlKE

I am so glad I procrastinated on doing that!

[retailguy]

What are these guys going to do with their Favre turned Havner jerseys?
:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2PBbNXXlKE

I am so glad I procrastinated on doing that!

I just buy t-shirts. No Jersey's! I don't have this problem. :wink:

[Fritz]

Havner maxed out but at least he actually reached his max...will those potential more talented TEs reach their max????

Well, the thing is that you already know that Havner's reached his max. You know what he can give. But with Quarless you can see what he could be but is not yet. And no, he might not get there. But if you keep nothing but worker bees then you end up with a roster that's not going to get you where you want to go. Not long ago many sportswriters were bitching that TT didn't have enough blue chip guys. Not enough difference makers.

He drafts a potential difference maker - yes, only potential at this point - and people then want him to keep the pedestrian Havner.

[Patler]

Based on their play in training camp two years ago, the Packers should have cut Finley and kept Haynos.

[CaliforniaCheez]

1) There was no DUI.
2) The guy never dropped the ball


He is a better player now than Crabtree and Quarless. Ted is gambling Quarless will be better in a couple of years if he can hang onto the ball like Havner.

[pbmax]

Based on their play in training camp two years ago, the Packers should have cut Finley and kept Haynos.
I remember being quite upset that Haynos was gone and the angry genius Parcells got him into Miami (it was Miami that picked him up, right?)

But I also remember being upset that Jered Sowell got waived and landed with the Angry Genius when he was with the Jets.

[Lurker64]

What are these guys going to do with their Favre turned Havner jerseys?
:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2PBbNXXlKE

I am so glad I procrastinated on doing that!

I just buy t-shirts. No Jersey's! I don't have this problem. :wink:

It's also totally safe to buy jerseys from past greats and retired (actually retired) players. Personally, I have a Rob Davis jersey and a Don Beebe jersey. It's not like "not owning jerseys for any current Packers" makes you less of a fan.

[Brandon494]

1) There was no DUI.
2) The guy never dropped the ball


He is a better player now than Crabtree and Quarless. Ted is gambling Quarless will be better in a couple of years if he can hang onto the ball like Havner.

3) He has 7 career catches
4) He can not block
5) Not a good route runner
6) Lions just claimed him as a LB

[retailguy]

What are these guys going to do with their Favre turned Havner jerseys?
:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2PBbNXXlKE

I am so glad I procrastinated on doing that!

I just buy t-shirts. No Jersey's! I don't have this problem. :wink:

It's also totally safe to buy jerseys from past greats and retired (actually retired) players. Personally, I have a Rob Davis jersey and a Don Beebe jersey. It's not like "not owning jerseys for any current Packers" makes you less of a fan.

Isn't Favre a "past great"? :P :whist:

[get louder at lambeau]

What are these guys going to do with their Favre turned Havner jerseys?
:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2PBbNXXlKE

I am so glad I procrastinated on doing that!

I just buy t-shirts. No Jersey's! I don't have this problem. :wink:

It's also totally safe to buy jerseys from past greats and retired (actually retired) players. Personally, I have a Rob Davis jersey and a Don Beebe jersey. It's not like "not owning jerseys for any current Packers" makes you less of a fan.

Isn't Favre a "past great"? :P :whist:

Unfortunately not. He's a "still great".

[HarveyWallbangers]

1) There was no DUI.
2) The guy never dropped the ball

He is a better player now than Crabtree and Quarless. Ted is gambling Quarless will be better in a couple of years if he can hang onto the ball like Havner.

I didn't watch Crabtree much, but from what I saw of preseason, Quarless is already a better receiving TE than Havner. He made some catches that Havner would only dream about.

[Lurker64]

1) There was no DUI.
2) The guy never dropped the ball

He is a better player now than Crabtree and Quarless. Ted is gambling Quarless will be better in a couple of years if he can hang onto the ball like Havner.

I didn't watch Crabtree much, but from what I saw of preseason, Quarless is already a better receiving TE than Havner. He made some catches that Havner would only dream about.

Quarless also could get separation against some good players, which is something that Havner always struggled at. He had sticky hands, and could get open in the trash, but he was only really open outside of the endzone in case a defender made a mistake. Now, Quarless didn't always catch everything thrown his way, but he can get better at that. I don't think that Havner really had much of a shot at getting better at running away from people.

[Pugger]

What are these guys going to do with their Favre turned Havner jerseys?
:D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2PBbNXXlKE

I am so glad I procrastinated on doing that!

I just buy t-shirts. No Jersey's! I don't have this problem. :wink:

Me neither. I can't afford jerseys. My Packer apparrel consists of generic t-shirts and sweats so I can wear them for years and they won't become dated (which can happen when the player's name on your jersey gets cut or retires).

[Pugger]

I checked out a Detroit forum for those fans' take on Havner and there didn't seem to be a lot of enthusiasm there.

[get louder at lambeau]

I checked out a Detroit forum for those fans' take on Havner and there didn't seem to be a lot of enthusiasm there.

They've had the enthusiasm beaten out of them for the last decade or so.

[mraynrand]

I checked out a Detroit forum for those fans' take on Havner and there didn't seem to be a lot of enthusiasm there.

They've had the enthusiasm beaten out of them for the last decade or so.

Mr. Enthusiasm:

http://www.customauthenticjerseys.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/matt-millen-steps-back-into-broadcasting.jpg

[Pugger]

I checked out a Detroit forum for those fans' take on Havner and there didn't seem to be a lot of enthusiasm there.

They've had the enthusiasm beaten out of them for the last decade or so.

Mr. Enthusiasm:

http://www.customauthenticjerseys.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/matt-millen-steps-back-into-broadcasting.jpg

:lol: :lol:

True, but you would think with the direction the team appears to be headed in TODAY there might be a tad more optimism in the Motor City.

[packerbacker1234]

I checked out a Detroit forum for those fans' take on Havner and there didn't seem to be a lot of enthusiasm there.

They've had the enthusiasm beaten out of them for the last decade or so.

Mr. Enthusiasm:

http://www.customauthenticjerseys.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/matt-millen-steps-back-into-broadcasting.jpg

:lol: :lol:

True, but you would think with the direction the team appears to be headed in TODAY there might be a tad more optimism in the Motor City.

Until they get back to .500, I'm not sure there will be too much optimism. Whenw e had a losing record what, 2 seasons ago, people weren't too optimistic about the next year. Sure, rodgers they figured would have good numbers, as he did in his first season, but we kept finding other ways to lose.