Why does TT keep this team on the BRINK of being great?

[gbpackfan]

This isn't a TT bash thread, really. It's more about his style of building a team. Can't he see the obvious flaws in the 2010 Packers?

KR / PR - Jordy is medicore at best. Other than that, there is no good option here.

CB - Sam Shields is a nice story but let's get real. The nickel CB plays a ton and he is going to get beat all over the field. A more experienced CB is needed and everyone knew Al's knee wasn't going to be ready week 1.

OLB - Poppinga and Zombo are your back-up OLD, enough said. Both of them have the same move, run straight into the OT and see if you can push him into the QB. 99.9% of the time it doesn't work. And with Matthews and Jones being hurt, this is a NEED.


I hope he makes a move here and a move there tomorrow, but I don't know how much can actually get done now.

Don't get me wrong, I think TT has built a good solid team. But he never seems to give the Packers that little push that they need. He seems perfectly satisfied to go 10-6 and just make it into the playoffs. Like that is enough for him.

Anyone else feel this way?

[get louder at lambeau]

I agree. I think he should just stop fucking around make our team invincible right now- because I want him to, and because it's JUST that easy!


http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm255/ChopsRock/Funny/n621446071_1135315_5373.jpg

[Gunakor]

He seems perfectly satisfied to go 10-6 and just make it into the playoffs. Like that is enough for him.

Anyone else feel this way?

Not at all. But at the same time I don't think anything more than getting into the playoffs is or should be expected of a GM. GM's don't wear pads, catch footballs, or jump on fumbles.

If your team makes the playoffs, it has a chance at the Super Bowl. That's all the GM is responsible for. Giving the team a chance to win. Winning, by itself, is the responsibility of the players and coaches.

Thompson has put together a team that not only has a chance to win it all this season, but should by all rights legitimately have that opportunity every season for many years to come. Now it's up to the guys in the huddle.

[Lurker64]

I'm never going to endorse a football team I cheer for going "all-in" because no matter how good you are, odds are you're not going to win the championship (and finishing 2nd, 3rd, or 4th isn't really that great). If you bet a significant margin (say in terms of future draft picks) on winning the championship, and it doesn't work out then you've screwed up your team down the line.

Better to have a good chance every year and hope to get hot at the right time than to try to simply outclass everybody else on paper two out of every ten years.

Remember, as poor as Zombo and Poppinga looked in the preseason, when the real games start they're not going to be playing; Matthews and Jones are. You hold guys out during the preseason for minor injuries, because preseason games don't matter. If one of those guys gets hurt and will miss serious time, then we might be in trouble but every team has issues like that, players they just can't afford to get hurt (Just imagine the Colts if Peyton Manning breaks his leg). If one of those guys gets hurt, well... that's just bad luck. You can't build a team of 53 alll-pros.

In terms of the secondary, things might be dicey initially, but remember that we should get Al Harris and Atari Bigby back and into week 6. I'd much rather have those guys at the end of the season, and into the playoffs than at the beginning. If you think our secondary is weak, take a look at the Cowboys... they only have 3 CBs on their roster...

[gbpackfan]

"I agree. I think he should just stop fucking around make our team invincible right now- because I want him to, and because it's JUST that easy!"


Well whatever man. If you wanna be a smart ass about, go ahead. Like i said before, Im not bashing the man. But he does have his flaws. Why don't we have a decent punter? Why dont we have a decent returner? He's had plenty of time to fill these positions. And it can be JUST that easy. But you have to go out and GET what you want. A team this good is just a piece or two away. It would be nice to see TT go out and get the final couple pieces of the puzzle. That's all.

[Lurker64]

Relax. There's no reason to totally embrace the negativity until this team faces adversity. Right now we're undefeated. For all we know, nobody on this team will get injured, everybody will play great, and we'll go 19-0 and win the superbowl by 70 points.

If you get too up in arms about how you're frustrated that the GM is screwing up, you're going to feel really silly when that happens. You don't want to feel silly when we win the superbowl, you want to feel great.

Either things will break well for this team this year, or they won't. The good thing about the team that Thompson has built, is that if things don't break well for us this year, we should be better next year. Our window for the championship is just now opening. If you're a team whose window is in danger of imminently closing, you should feel a lot more angst than if you're a young and talented team with good contract situations... which we are.

[gbpackfan]

Im not up in arms, I think this team is going to be good. Don't get me wrong now, I just don't think this team has what it takes to be special. There are some big holes that need / needed to be filled. They haven't been.

I know Im not the only one that feels great about Jordy Nelson and Brandon Jackson as our return men.

Don't confuse this thread as a "sky is falling" speech. It's not. Just some thoughts.

[sharpe1027]

With all due respect, I feel that you are oversimplifying the situation.

There are 32 teams, most of them are worse off than the Packers, yet every single one of them is going for the same goal. There is not a single team without some weak areas, yet if it was "Just that easy" why is that the case? They all compete for the same players and the same goal. Is it JUST that easy? No.

You are free to your opinion, but it will likely be a string of disappointments for you if you don't put things into perspective. Ron Wolf only won one superbowl in eight years.

I, for one, am very excited about this year and hope they win it all; however, I don't want to get rid of TT to bring in some other bozo just because the don't win it all. The odds are that anyone they bring in to replace him will be worse. Let's hope the just win the Superbowl so this whole discussion is pointless!!

Go Pack!

[Lurker64]

At the risk of oversimplifying, Why has Ted Thompson left us on the brink of being great? Because that's the GM's job: to bring his team to the brink of greatness. No general manager can make a team great. You can assemble a roster of the greatest players to ever play the sport in their primes, and that team won't necessarily great. Players (and to a lesser extent Coaches) are what makes the team great.

Every player on the team wants just as badly as Thompson (and possibly more) to win every game they play, and to achieve greatness.

You may think that Sam Shields isn't ready and that Jarret Bush sucks.. but Sam Shields wants to be ready and Jarret Bush wants to play well. It's their responsibility to do those things, not yours, not mine, and not Ted Thompson's. TT and MM believe that they have assembled a team of players who are capable of achieving greatness, perhaps even players who are likely to collectively achieve greatness. Will they? That gets decided in the weight room, in the film room, in the locker room, and on the field. I don't know, you don't know, and TT doesn't know.

In my personal opinion, any time a general manager has put together a team that has an honest to goodness chance of being the best in their sport, they've done their job. Could they have done it more or better? Sure, but most everything can be done more thoroughly or more exactly. You can't go through life expecting people to do the best job at something that can possibly be done.

[bobblehead]

This isn't a TT bash thread, really. It's more about his style of building a team. Can't he see the obvious flaws in the 2010 Packers?

KR / PR - Jordy is medicore at best. Other than that, there is no good option here.

CB - Sam Shields is a nice story but let's get real. The nickel CB plays a ton and he is going to get beat all over the field. A more experienced CB is needed and everyone knew Al's knee wasn't going to be ready week 1.

OLB - Poppinga and Zombo are your back-up OLD, enough said. Both of them have the same move, run straight into the OT and see if you can push him into the QB. 99.9% of the time it doesn't work. And with Matthews and Jones being hurt, this is a NEED.


I hope he makes a move here and a move there tomorrow, but I don't know how much can actually get done now.

Don't get me wrong, I think TT has built a good solid team. But he never seems to give the Packers that little push that they need. He seems perfectly satisfied to go 10-6 and just make it into the playoffs. Like that is enough for him.

Anyone else feel this way?

KR/PR- WE had a very good one who didn't recover from his injury. Its not easy to be 3 deep with great talent at every position.
OLB- Again, Poppinga and Zombo are pretty good for BACKUPS. If you want backups who can get to the QB, I want a 9" cock!
CB- Underwood is hurt again which sets us back. Of every gripe on TT, this is the most humerous. When Harris comes back we likely have the best 5 DB's of any nickel package in the league....but you want to be 7 deep so someone gets to sit when Al does come back. I know, Revis is dying to come to GB to be the nickel right?

Your expectations are unrealistic (which was get louders point). TT has done a very good job. The team is on the brink of greatness. Sure we need a break or two and to stay healthy. Masthay looks like an NFL punter. Jones and Mathews look like legit OLB. I admit though, returner is kinda goofy right now, but that is about blocking and reliably catching the ball....we will have the latter in place by sunday (we don't turn the ball over, we won't start now).

Strangely, the only legitimate gripe on this team is the return coverage teams which you aren't concerned about....I don't really get it.

[RashanGary]

I'll admit, I see us getting closer and closer and now I'm feeling this impulsive urge to get that one or two players to get over the top.


But. . . . I also know, that over time, if you keep making the right decisions, it will add up. The way Ted is doing it is going to give us many chances at a SB ring (similar to the way Indy does it). Some teams that do it well in that format win a SB. Some teams that do it well in that format win a couple SB's.

Every team, including SB winning teams have weak depth spots on their team. The ones who win it tend to have a health, especially in the most important areas of their team.


This is one year where we have a chance to win the SB. Maybe it will line up, maybe it won't, but we have several years (this year and several more in the foreseeable future) to win it. Hopefully Shields becomes a natural player, Harris comes back and we get some healthy in the secondary. Hopefully Masthay good. Hopefully the coverage units get it figured out. None of it is proven that it's going to hurt us. It's not a bullet proof team, but it's a great year we have ahead of us. We are at the top of the league. We have a chance.

The question is, does making hte moves you want to make give us as much of a better chance to win today as it does hinder our ability to win tomorrow.

Ultimately, it's a GM's job to win a SB over the course of his tenure. It's not a one year job where the world ends after the season is over. Everything he does is to give his team the best shot to win a SB. Not this SB, although this SB is a part of the equation.

[vince]

Sam Shields is a very good test for young Joe Whitt. If he can coach him up to minimize mistakes and be a serviceable corner this year, that'll be a big feather in his cap.

[Patler]

Why does TT keep this team on the brink of being great?

Because that is his job, and he is quite good at it.

Actually becoming great can be a quirk of fate, unexpected play from several players, etc. Wolf did nothing more than bring the team to the brink of greatness, and for one season it was great, but for just one season. If you keep it on the brink of greatness, it might become great for a season or more.

[Brandon494]

This isn't a TT bash thread, really. It's more about his style of building a team. Can't he see the obvious flaws in the 2010 Packers?

KR / PR - Jordy is medicore at best. Other than that, there is no good option here.

CB - Sam Shields is a nice story but let's get real. The nickel CB plays a ton and he is going to get beat all over the field. A more experienced CB is needed and everyone knew Al's knee wasn't going to be ready week 1.

OLB - Poppinga and Zombo are your back-up OLD, enough said. Both of them have the same move, run straight into the OT and see if you can push him into the QB. 99.9% of the time it doesn't work. And with Matthews and Jones being hurt, this is a NEED.


I hope he makes a move here and a move there tomorrow, but I don't know how much can actually get done now.

Don't get me wrong, I think TT has built a good solid team. But he never seems to give the Packers that little push that they need. He seems perfectly satisfied to go 10-6 and just make it into the playoffs. Like that is enough for him.

Anyone else feel this way?

No offense but it seems to me that you only follow Packer football and maybe don't know all that much about other teams. I don't understand why some fans act like we are the only team with flaws and that its so easy to correct these problems. I live in VA and everyone around here are die hard Redskin fans and you have no idea how lucky we are to have the team TT has build. The Skins tried to sign big name FAs each year to fill their flaws and that sure has worked out great for them.

Does TT have flaws? Of course, just like every other GM but he has put together a young team with good chemistry that includes the best young QB in the league....seriously what more can you ask for?

[Patler]

Why don't we have a decent punter? Why dont we have a decent returner? He's had plenty of time to fill these positions. And it can be JUST that easy. But you have to go out and GET what you want. A team this good is just a piece or two away. It would be nice to see TT go out and get the final couple pieces of the puzzle. That's all.

What makes you think it is so easy to get what you want as a GM? If it is that easy, why do so many teams stand at the verge of Super Bowls, but not get there? Every team is looking for something. Every team will do what it can to upgrade a weak position, within reason.

Let's talk about the punter, which you brought up. What was the "easy" way to "have a decent punter." If you want to criticize the release of Jon Ryan, in retrospect I can agree it was a mistake. But that was done in an attempt to get better. Isn't that exactly what you want him to do? Once that attempt to become better failed, what was the way to fix it that you believe is "JUST that easy"? There have been articles several times the last couple years listing the FA options, and it was never very impressive. It looks like the problem could be fixed now, time will tell.

A GM doesn't have his pick of all players. He has his pick from among those FAs that are willing to come to his team. Now he can do some things (mostly $) to convince a player to come, but his options are not unlimited. I agree that the return games have struggled, as much from blocking as from the man with the ball, but what is the way to fix it that s "JUST that easy"?

If the team never makes a deep playoff run, I think it is time to question. But the Packers have been in a state of transition due to the age of the roster 6 years ago, the change in QBs, etc. That should now begin to settle down, with apparent plans of succession where the team is now old, but there will always be holes to fill, because no team can have a starting-worthy backup at every position, nor a pro-bowl worthy player as every starter.

[Fritz]

A good example of the way a GM's longer-term priority can conflict with a coach or a fan's perspective might be Andrew Quarless. Here's a guy that very likely cannot contribute nearly what Spencer Havner could this year. In the short term, you'd get more from Havner. But Quarless has shown some flashed of great ability. If you lose him this year to some other team that will claim him, it's no big deal - this year. The guy is probably going to be inactive most of the season, barring injury.

But TT's got to be looking down the road, too. What if Jermichael Finley gets to the end of his contract and wants out of GB? Or wants more money than GB is willing to pay? If you've kept and developed Quarless, you have a potential replacement, at least. The guy has skill. If you let him go a few years ago for Havner, you've got - well, you've got Havner.

[Patler]

A good example of the way a GM's longer-term priority can conflict with a coach or a fan's perspective might be Andrew Quarless. Here's a guy that very likely cannot contribute nearly what Spencer Havner could this year. In the short term, you'd get more from Havner. But Quarless has shown some flashed of great ability. If you lose him this year to some other team that will claim him, it's no big deal - this year. The guy is probably going to be inactive most of the season, barring injury.

But TT's got to be looking down the road, too. What if Jermichael Finley gets to the end of his contract and wants out of GB? Or wants more money than GB is willing to pay? If you've kept and developed Quarless, you have a potential replacement, at least. The guy has skill. If you let him go a few years ago for Havner, you've got - well, you've got Havner.

Take that another step, and look at Jermichael Finley himself. Joey Haynos outperformed Finley in preseason two years ago. Finley was no where near ready to contribute. Yet, just a year later, he was a totally different player. Quarless doesn't have to make similar improvements, but just normal 1st to 2nd year gains, and he will be a decent receiver. With Crabtree as a blocker for a 3rd TE, both Lee and Havner will be quickly forgotten. The position could very well be better next year than this year.

[wist43]

"... a 100% resolution, a 100% determination".

Vince

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PtY8x9PoTXc

[imscott72]

We go through this every year. Every year there are obvious issues, and guys out there that could help this team, but TT seems to go on vacation after cut down day. Might as well get used to it if you aren't already.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

Lets take a look at the roster.
On offense we have an o-line that I have been the most happy with since 2004. I am really glad we kept Splitz b/c we now have 8 guys that if needed to play for a while I would be fine with. TE, WR, QB, and FB are all very strong and I think everyone will agree with that. Rb is not as strong, but I wouldn't call it a weakest either.

Special team units say more about coaching than the player I think. So hopefully we will be better once the real games start.
LS - Good
K - Crosby played really well this preseason
P - Both guys looked a lot better than the last guy
KR/PR - We had Blackman and he got hurt........What can you do?

Defense:
D-line - How could he have prepared better for the loss of Jolly? I was even questioning why we drafted two guys here and it turns out it was a very good idea. No one seems to give TT credit for this move, but imagine how the line would look without Neal??

ILB - Good. Have Barnett, Hawk, and Chillar, not too shabby.
OLB - Matthews, Jones, and then crap (one probowler and one guy who may be good but should at least be decent)
FS - Good
SS - Burnett and Bibgy
Very good at safety when Bibgy comes back.

That leaves CB. We have the DPOY there to start off. Then we have Williams who I think is a decent number two and a great number three. Now look at it from TT perspective.....During the draft and free agency he thought Harris might be back week 1 and he also knew that his second round pick from only two years ago would be back. Add in the potential he saw in Underwood and he probably thought we would be five deep at corner to start the year. So he went heavy on the d-line and o-line which were the biggest weaknesses last year. No one seems to be talking about how he did a good job of improving those areas of the team.

Who is he really going to go get right now at CB? I don't think its worth trading a draft pick for a corner when we have two good starting corners and a guy at nickel that we really have no idea how he will play. The guy we get now is probably not going to be any better than Shields unless he completely blows. As others have said this is a good team now, its time for the coaches to take this team to the next level and that means getting lesser players to play good and getting your good players to play great. Also like others have said no team doesn’t have weaknesses, but not taking injuries into account only third CB looks weak to me. And we still have hope that it will turn into a strength once Harris comes back.

This is actually the one off-season were I have really agreed with most if not all of TT moves. I only thing I don't really like is that Blackman was cut b/c I think his injury is something he could have come back from in the not too distant future.

[get louder at lambeau]

"I agree. I think he should just stop fucking around make our team invincible right now- because I want him to, and because it's JUST that easy!"


Well whatever man. If you wanna be a smart ass about, go ahead. Like i said before, Im not bashing the man. But he does have his flaws. Why don't we have a decent punter? Why dont we have a decent returner? He's had plenty of time to fill these positions. And it can be JUST that easy. But you have to go out and GET what you want. A team this good is just a piece or two away. It would be nice to see TT go out and get the final couple pieces of the puzzle. That's all.

I know you're not bashing Thompson, but you are whining that he didn't just grab some easy fix that magically would have made the team "special".

It's not even "If it's that easy, then why doesn't everyone do it?" as much as it is "If it's that easy, why doesn't ANYONE do it?" Where are these "special" teams that don't have obvious holes similar to the Packers on their roster? There are NO teams in the NFL that stand out as clearly head and shoulders above the Packers roster-wise- maybe arguably slightly better, but not "special".

If you want a quantification of where teams stand, the most objective is probably Vegas odds. Current Vegas odds give the Packers a 9% chance of winning the Super Bowl this year. The team with the best odds is the Colts, with a 13% chance, followed by the current champs at 11%. The average and median is about 3% odds. We are right up top with the best teams out there.

[mmmdk]

My only true beef with TED is special teams. Not enough emphasis on ST from TT, actually it's been neglecTED. This season is no exception.

Pretty happy with TT otherwise - YUP 8-)

[Patler]

We go through this every year. Every year there are obvious issues, and guys out there that could help this team, but TT seems to go on vacation after cut down day. Might as well get used to it if you aren't already.

Players released by other teams and signed by TT at final cutdown or within two weeks thereafter (not including PS signings)
Donald Lee
Jarrett Bush
Tony Palmer
Charlie Peprah
Koren Robinson
Shaun Bodford
KE Cochrane
John Kuhn
Derrick Frost
Brett Goode



Trades made by TT at or shortly after final cutdown:
Ryan Grant for a draft choice
Robert Thomas for Chris Johnson
Draft pick for Steve Morley
Samkon Gado for Vernand Morency
Derrick Martin for Tony Moll

15 such transactions in five years. An average of 3/year.

[vince]

All together now.....

Patlerized.

[gbpackfan]

A lot of green and gold glasses on in here. But that's cool. :P

[imscott72]

We go through this every year. Every year there are obvious issues, and guys out there that could help this team, but TT seems to go on vacation after cut down day. Might as well get used to it if you aren't already.

Players released by other teams and signed by TT at final cutdown or within two weeks thereafter (not including PS signings)
Donald Lee
Jarrett Bush
Tony Palmer
Charlie Peprah
Koren Robinson
Shaun Bodford
KE Cochrane
John Kuhn
Derrick Frost
Brett Goode



Trades made by TT at or shortly after final cutdown:
Ryan Grant for a draft choice
Robert Thomas for Chris Johnson
Draft pick for Steve Morley
Samkon Gado for Vernand Morency
Derrick Martin for Tony Moll

15 such transactions in five years. An average of 3/year.

Well thanks for making me look bad Patler. :lol: Seriously, though I didn't realize he had made all those moves post cut down. I stand corrected.

[Pugger]

I'm never going to endorse a football team I cheer for going "all-in" because no matter how good you are, odds are you're not going to win the championship (and finishing 2nd, 3rd, or 4th isn't really that great). If you bet a significant margin (say in terms of future draft picks) on winning the championship, and it doesn't work out then you've screwed up your team down the line.

Better to have a good chance every year and hope to get hot at the right time than to try to simply outclass everybody else on paper two out of every ten years.

Remember, as poor as Zombo and Poppinga looked in the preseason, when the real games start they're not going to be playing; Matthews and Jones are. You hold guys out during the preseason for minor injuries, because preseason games don't matter. If one of those guys gets hurt and will miss serious time, then we might be in trouble but every team has issues like that, players they just can't afford to get hurt (Just imagine the Colts if Peyton Manning breaks his leg). If one of those guys gets hurt, well... that's just bad luck. You can't build a team of 53 alll-pros.

In terms of the secondary, things might be dicey initially, but remember that we should get Al Harris and Atari Bigby back and into week 6. I'd much rather have those guys at the end of the season, and into the playoffs than at the beginning. If you think our secondary is weak, take a look at the Cowboys... they only have 3 CBs on their roster...

+1

[packerbacker1234]

Every team has flaws, and if you're asking any GM to make a team without flaws, you're looking at the 72 dolphins.

Point is, making the perfect team is not so easy, and he has put together what many analysts feel is a super bowl contendor. That is all we can realistically ask for.

[gbpackfan]

How about a KR/PR? Is that really too much to ask? Really?

[imscott72]

How about a KR/PR? Is that really too much to ask? Really?

Apparently yes it is..

[Patler]

How about a KR/PR? Is that really too much to ask? Really?

Quite often, return men sort of come from no where, so to speak. I'm sure he was hoping for Blackmon to return, or for Shields or someone like that to show potential. Maybe there is someone out there who he could have brought in, but I can't think of one. Over the years, he actually has drafted a number of players who were thought to have potential as return men, but it hasn't worked out. There aren't many proven return men who become available.

Face it, when Blackmon WAS available, he was pretty darn good on punt returns, even if not so much on kickoffs. So TT had found one, he just didn't hold up physically.

[Patler]

Well thanks for making me look bad Patler. :lol: Seriously, though I didn't realize he had made all those moves post cut down. I stand corrected.

Well, you are very welcome! :wink: :wink: :lol:

I really don't mean to make anyone look bad, I just like to have the facts out there. It seems TT evokes a lot of impressions by others about him that aren't always accurate. He will forever "covet" his draft picks, no matter how many times he now trades up. He will forever disdain veteran players, no matter how many old veterans he continues to re-sign on his current roster.

I'm just trying to do my part to make sure our disagreements are based on accurate understandings of the facts, and not on factual misconceptions! :lol:

[gbpackfan]

How about a KR/PR? Is that really too much to ask? Really?

Quite often, return men sort of come from no where, so to speak. I'm sure he was hoping for Blackmon to return, or for Shields or someone like that to show potential. Maybe there is someone out there who he could have brought in, but I can't think of one. Over the years, he actually has drafted a number of players who were thought to have potential as return men, but it hasn't worked out. There aren't many proven return men who become available.

Face it, when Blackmon WAS available, he was pretty darn good on punt returns, even if not so much on kickoffs. So TT had found one, he just didn't hold up physically.

I agree 100% about Blackmon. But the flaw in your arguement is that Blackmon's knee has been a problem all preseason. TT has had over a month to prepare for Blackmon being out. It was fairly obvious actually. But Im willing to move on. We'll see what happens moving foward. But it's really, really hard to believe the Packer's brass when they say they are serious about improving special teams play. Their actions tell me otherwise.

[Patler]

I agree 100% about Blackmon. But the flaw in your arguement is that Blackmon's knee has been a problem all preseason. TT has had over a month to prepare for Blackmon being out. It was fairly obvious actually. But Im willing to move on. We'll see what happens moving foward. But it's really, really hard to believe the Packer's brass when they say they are serious about improving special teams play. Their actions tell me otherwise.

The problem is, when camp starts close to 2600 players are not available because they are already contractually committed. There isn't much to pick from at that time. There might be some available now, and we could see the Packers do something in the next week or two. Historically, they have tweaked their roster a bit the first few weeks (just ask Aaron Rouse! :lol: )

I'm actually more concerned with the other ST spots than I am the guy carrying the ball. I don't think blocking has been good on the return teams, nor the coverage teams on the kicking and punt teams. TT has actually brought in guys that are supposed to be good special teamers, yet nothing comes of it.

[RashanGary]

When your complaint is that your team is on the brink of greatness, consistently, you might have a pretty good GM.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I've always thought that TT has done a great job of continuously reloading the team. He uses his picks to take a chance to land on a special player. Most of the draft is a crapshoot anyway, so if you hit one just a couple really good ones or one great one, and a couple of role players it's been a good year. As far as Blackmon goes, I have a really hard time remembering seeing him on the field. Had he gotten healthy, he would have been interesting to watch. But seriously, what is 5-10 more yards on the return with the offense that we have? I am ok with Jordy fulfilling the role provided he doesn't put it on the ground. I was a bit disappointed that we let some players go and got nothing in return. It would have been nice to see TT scoop up some new blood just to see what was there. With the Packers picking at the bottom of each round, there just had to be players picked higher that could have been brought in to help at LB or CB. Truth is, TT didn't see anything he liked better than what we already had, so lets get the season going!

[Smidgeon]

I've always thought that TT has done a great job of continuously reloading the team. He uses his picks to take a chance to land on a special player. Most of the draft is a crapshoot anyway, so if you hit one just a couple really good ones or one great one, and a couple of role players it's been a good year. As far as Blackmon goes, I have a really hard time remembering seeing him on the field. Had he gotten healthy, he would have been interesting to watch. But seriously, what is 5-10 more yards on the return with the offense that we have? I am ok with Jordy fulfilling the role provided he doesn't put it on the ground. I was a bit disappointed that we let some players go and got nothing in return. It would have been nice to see TT scoop up some new blood just to see what was there. With the Packers picking at the bottom of each round, there just had to be players picked higher that could have been brought in to help at LB or CB. Truth is, TT didn't see anything he liked better than what we already had, so lets get the season going!

+1

[cheesner]

How about a KR/PR? Is that really too much to ask? Really?

Quite often, return men sort of come from no where, so to speak. I'm sure he was hoping for Blackmon to return, or for Shields or someone like that to show potential. Maybe there is someone out there who he could have brought in, but I can't think of one. Over the years, he actually has drafted a number of players who were thought to have potential as return men, but it hasn't worked out. There aren't many proven return men who become available.

Face it, when Blackmon WAS available, he was pretty darn good on punt returns, even if not so much on kickoffs. So TT had found one, he just didn't hold up physically.

I agree 100% about Blackmon. But the flaw in your arguement is that Blackmon's knee has been a problem all preseason. TT has had over a month to prepare for Blackmon being out. It was fairly obvious actually. But Im willing to move on. We'll see what happens moving foward. But it's really, really hard to believe the Packer's brass when they say they are serious about improving special teams play. Their actions tell me otherwise.
Couple questions for you:

I am just curious why you think TT would be only interested in being mediocre? What is the logic there?

Are there any teams that have GMs that want to win the SB? Don't tell me Indy, NO, Vikes, Cowboys, Ravens, etc because using your logic they all have bigger questions than the Packers and therefore have also accepted mediocrity.

What is this green and gold glasses comment? Have you seen any power rankings or 2010 predictions by mainstream press? The 2 I looked at today had the Packers 1st and 3rd. One had the Pack winning the SB.

Believe it or not, the Packers have a great team and we have TT to thank for that. As difficult as it may seem, you are going to have to admit TT is a great GM at some point soon.

[channtheman]

How about a KR/PR? Is that really too much to ask? Really?

Quite often, return men sort of come from no where, so to speak. I'm sure he was hoping for Blackmon to return, or for Shields or someone like that to show potential. Maybe there is someone out there who he could have brought in, but I can't think of one. Over the years, he actually has drafted a number of players who were thought to have potential as return men, but it hasn't worked out. There aren't many proven return men who become available.

Face it, when Blackmon WAS available, he was pretty darn good on punt returns, even if not so much on kickoffs. So TT had found one, he just didn't hold up physically.

I agree 100% about Blackmon. But the flaw in your arguement is that Blackmon's knee has been a problem all preseason. TT has had over a month to prepare for Blackmon being out. It was fairly obvious actually. But Im willing to move on. We'll see what happens moving foward. But it's really, really hard to believe the Packer's brass when they say they are serious about improving special teams play. Their actions tell me otherwise.
Couple questions for you:

I am just curious why you think TT would be only interested in being mediocre? What is the logic there?

Are there any teams that have GMs that want to win the SB? Don't tell me Indy, NO, Vikes, Cowboys, Ravens, etc because using your logic they all have bigger questions than the Packers and therefore have also accepted mediocrity.

What is this green and gold glasses comment? Have you seen any power rankings or 2010 predictions by mainstream press? The 2 I looked at today had the Packers 1st and 3rd. One had the Pack winning the SB.

Believe it or not, the Packers have a great team and we have TT to thank for that. As difficult as it may seem, you are going to have to admit TT is a great GM at some point soon.

A Super Bowl win this year would be a great way to get everyone on the same page with that.

[cheesner]

As difficult as it may seem, you are going to have to admit TT is a great GM at some point soon.

A Super Bowl win this year would be a great way to get everyone on the same page with that.

Once the Packers win the Superbowl it should be so obvious, my sister will be able to figure it out.

I actually don't think that will do it. The sentiment will be, well they won despite TT being a GM who didn't want to have a great team. Or, 'despite TT being inept, he got lucky when player XXX stepped forward.' Or, even more likely, the anti TT crowd will re-register with a new name or just go to a different message board rather than admit they were wrong all along.

[get louder at lambeau]

Or, even more likely, the anti TT crowd will re-register with a new name or just go to a different message board rather than admit they were wrong all along.

This is what usually happens, in my experience.

[Patler]

As difficult as it may seem, you are going to have to admit TT is a great GM at some point soon.

A Super Bowl win this year would be a great way to get everyone on the same page with that.

Once the Packers win the Superbowl it should be so obvious, my sister will be able to figure it out.

I actually don't think that will do it. The sentiment will be, well they won despite TT being a GM who didn't want to have a great team. Or, 'despite TT being inept, he got lucky when player XXX stepped forward.' Or, even more likely, the anti TT crowd will re-register with a new name or just go to a different message board rather than admit they were wrong all along.

:lol: We have already seen a bit of that from some who refuse to give TT any credit for drafting Rodgers, because Rodgers just "fell into his lap".

I don't know if the guy is great or not, but he sure rebuilt the team without a lot of agony. Sure it has had its ups and downs, but it was a very thorough transformation.

[cheesner]

Or, even more likely, the anti TT crowd will re-register with a new name or just go to a different message board rather than admit they were wrong all along.

This is what usually happens, in my experience.Come on, be honest, what was your original username? Tank?

[get louder at lambeau]

Or, even more likely, the anti TT crowd will re-register with a new name or just go to a different message board rather than admit they were wrong all along.

This is what usually happens, in my experience.Come on, be honest, what was your original username? Tank?

retailguy.

[Fritz]

As difficult as it may seem, you are going to have to admit TT is a great GM at some point soon.

A Super Bowl win this year would be a great way to get everyone on the same page with that.

Once the Packers win the Superbowl it should be so obvious, my sister will be able to figure it out.

I actually don't think that will do it. The sentiment will be, well they won despite TT being a GM who didn't want to have a great team. Or, 'despite TT being inept, he got lucky when player XXX stepped forward.' Or, even more likely, the anti TT crowd will re-register with a new name or just go to a different message board rather than admit they were wrong all along.

:lol: We have already seen a bit of that from some who refuse to give TT any credit for drafting Rodgers, because Rodgers just "fell into his lap".

I don't know if the guy is great or not, but he sure rebuilt the team without a lot of agony. Sure it has had its ups and downs, but it was a very thorough transformation.

Whenever I get Patlerized, I just think, "Ah, he got lucky. That information just fell into his lap."

[gbpackfan]

This isn't a TT bash thread, really. It's more about his style of building a team. Can't he see the obvious flaws in the 2010 Packers?

KR / PR - Jordy is medicore at best. Other than that, there is no good option here.

CB - Sam Shields is a nice story but let's get real. The nickel CB plays a ton and he is going to get beat all over the field. A more experienced CB is needed and everyone knew Al's knee wasn't going to be ready week 1.

OLB - Poppinga and Zombo are your back-up OLD, enough said. Both of them have the same move, run straight into the OT and see if you can push him into the QB. 99.9% of the time it doesn't work. And with Matthews and Jones being hurt, this is a NEED.


I hope he makes a move here and a move there tomorrow, but I don't know how much can actually get done now.

Don't get me wrong, I think TT has built a good solid team. But he never seems to give the Packers that little push that they need. He seems perfectly satisfied to go 10-6 and just make it into the playoffs. Like that is enough for him.

Anyone else feel this way?


Boy, I was spot on! HA HA HA. Clearly Im a donkey and TT knows way more than me. OLB / CB and KR/PR all held up today. I have no defense. Im stupid. :oops:

[Lurker64]

This isn't a TT bash thread, really. It's more about his style of building a team. Can't he see the obvious flaws in the 2010 Packers?

KR / PR - Jordy is medicore at best. Other than that, there is no good option here.

CB - Sam Shields is a nice story but let's get real. The nickel CB plays a ton and he is going to get beat all over the field. A more experienced CB is needed and everyone knew Al's knee wasn't going to be ready week 1.

OLB - Poppinga and Zombo are your back-up OLD, enough said. Both of them have the same move, run straight into the OT and see if you can push him into the QB. 99.9% of the time it doesn't work. And with Matthews and Jones being hurt, this is a NEED.


I hope he makes a move here and a move there tomorrow, but I don't know how much can actually get done now.

Don't get me wrong, I think TT has built a good solid team. But he never seems to give the Packers that little push that they need. He seems perfectly satisfied to go 10-6 and just make it into the playoffs. Like that is enough for him.

Anyone else feel this way?


Boy, I was spot on! HA HA HA. Clearly Im a donkey and TT knows way more than me. OLB / CB and KR/PR all held up today. I have no defense. Im stupid. :oops:

Football is a tricky game. There's all sorts of mental traps to make people think that they know things that aren't true at all. Especially when you realize that the people on the inside, who are busy trying to out think and out maneuver each other, are a lot more knowledgeable and better informed than pretty much anybody on the outside.

Like, when it comes to player evaluation in the draft, even average NFL personnel guys would run circles around even the very best "draft experts" like Mayock.

Like Socrates said, the only true wisdom is in realizing what it is that you don't know.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Boy, I was spot on! HA HA HA. Clearly Im a donkey and TT knows way more than me. OLB / CB and KR/PR all held up today. I have no defense. Im stupid. :oops:

The season's not over yet, so you still have a chance to be right.

[gbpackfan]

Boy, I was spot on! HA HA HA. Clearly Im a donkey and TT knows way more than me. OLB / CB and KR/PR all held up today. I have no defense. Im stupid. :oops:

The season's not over yet, so you still have a chance to be right.


Thanks! That makes me feel better. LOL :D

[SkinBasket]

Boy, I was spot on! HA HA HA. Clearly Im a donkey and TT knows way more than me. OLB / CB and KR/PR all held up today. I have no defense. Im stupid. :oops:

The season's not over yet, so you still have a chance to be right.


Thanks! That makes me feel better. LOL :D

God, this place would be infinitely more tolerable if more people had your ability to say, "Well, fuck. I was wrong."

[gbpackfan]

Boy, I was spot on! HA HA HA. Clearly Im a donkey and TT knows way more than me. OLB / CB and KR/PR all held up today. I have no defense. Im stupid. :oops:

The season's not over yet, so you still have a chance to be right.


Thanks! That makes me feel better. LOL :D

God, this place would be infinitely more tolerable if more people had your ability to say, "Well, fuck. I was wrong."


Haha. Thanks. I dont know how I could argue FOR myself. I was wrong times 3. Hey, if you're going to be a bear, be a GRIZZLY!

[Joemailman]

Boy, I was spot on! HA HA HA. Clearly Im a donkey and TT knows way more than me. OLB / CB and KR/PR all held up today. I have no defense. Im stupid. :oops:

The season's not over yet, so you still have a chance to be right.

Shut up Harvey! :smack:

[mraynrand]

Boy, I was spot on! HA HA HA. Clearly Im a donkey and TT knows way more than me. OLB / CB and KR/PR all held up today. I have no defense. Im stupid. :oops:

The season's not over yet, so you still have a chance to be right.


Thanks! That makes me feel better. LOL :D

God, this place would be infinitely more tolerable if more people had your ability to say, "Well, fuck. I was wrong."

Bush played extremely well on teams, forcing at least two fair catches on punts by defeating blocks and getting in Jackson's face. Thoughts?

[gbpackfan]

I love Bush!

[ThunderDan]

Boy, I was spot on! HA HA HA. Clearly Im a donkey and TT knows way more than me. OLB / CB and KR/PR all held up today. I have no defense. Im stupid. :oops:

The season's not over yet, so you still have a chance to be right.


Thanks! That makes me feel better. LOL :D

God, this place would be infinitely more tolerable if more people had your ability to say, "Well, fuck. I was wrong."

Bush played extremely well on teams, forcing at least two fair catches on punts by defeating blocks and getting in Jackson's face. Thoughts?

He still owes the Pack the $2,000,000 he got paid last year. He better play like a $4,000,000 ST demon.

[SkinBasket]

Boy, I was spot on! HA HA HA. Clearly Im a donkey and TT knows way more than me. OLB / CB and KR/PR all held up today. I have no defense. Im stupid. :oops:

The season's not over yet, so you still have a chance to be right.


Thanks! That makes me feel better. LOL :D

God, this place would be infinitely more tolerable if more people had your ability to say, "Well, fuck. I was wrong."

Bush played extremely well on teams, forcing at least two fair catches on punts by defeating blocks and getting in Jackson's face. Thoughts?


You're a f*$king idiot that doesn't know how to f#@king watch a f^&king football game you goddamn poopheaded idiot! I hope you die and stop posting here forever! It was the punter's high arch that caused the fair catches, not no stinking ghey-ass Bush!

[mmmdk]

One game!

[mraynrand]

Boy, I was spot on! HA HA HA. Clearly Im a donkey and TT knows way more than me. OLB / CB and KR/PR all held up today. I have no defense. Im stupid. :oops:

The season's not over yet, so you still have a chance to be right.


Thanks! That makes me feel better. LOL :D

God, this place would be infinitely more tolerable if more people had your ability to say, "Well, fuck. I was wrong."

Bush played extremely well on teams, forcing at least two fair catches on punts by defeating blocks and getting in Jackson's face. Thoughts?


You're a f*$king idiot that doesn't know how to f#@king watch a f^&king football game you goddamn poopheaded idiot! I hope you die and stop posting here forever! It was the punter's high arch that caused the fair catches, not no stinking ghey-ass Bush!

I disrespectfully disagree.

[pbmax]

Boy, I was spot on! HA HA HA. Clearly Im a donkey and TT knows way more than me. OLB / CB and KR/PR all held up today. I have no defense. Im stupid. :oops:

The season's not over yet, so you still have a chance to be right.


Thanks! That makes me feel better. LOL :D

God, this place would be infinitely more tolerable if more people had your ability to say, "Well, fuck. I was wrong."

Bush played extremely well on teams, forcing at least two fair catches on punts by defeating blocks and getting in Jackson's face. Thoughts?


You're a f*$king idiot that doesn't know how to f#@king watch a f^&king football game you goddamn poopheaded idiot! I hope you die and stop posting here forever! It was the punter's high arch that caused the fair catches, not no stinking ghey-ass Bush!
I actually saw Bush on the field for the defense and he did not seem to be giving up completions. The Eagles spotters must have missed him. Or having two rookies on defense is like camouflage for him.

[SkinBasket]

Boy, I was spot on! HA HA HA. Clearly Im a donkey and TT knows way more than me. OLB / CB and KR/PR all held up today. I have no defense. Im stupid. :oops:

The season's not over yet, so you still have a chance to be right.


Thanks! That makes me feel better. LOL :D

God, this place would be infinitely more tolerable if more people had your ability to say, "Well, fuck. I was wrong."

Bush played extremely well on teams, forcing at least two fair catches on punts by defeating blocks and getting in Jackson's face. Thoughts?


You're a f*$king idiot that doesn't know how to f#@king watch a f^&king football game you goddamn poopheaded idiot! I hope you die and stop posting here forever! It was the punter's high arch that caused the fair catches, not no stinking ghey-ass Bush!

I disrespectfully disagree.

Why can't you stop bothering me!? You're an idiot with no original thoughts. It was obviously the wind, not Bush that led to those fair catches, and if you don't think so that means you're stalking me, provoking me, and giving me an excuse to have a spermalicious conniption fit all over you! Don't poke the bear! You've been warned that responding to me or asking me to further prove my unassailable knowledge will give me license to abuse you, your family, and your sexual orientation...

[sharpe1027]

Why can't you stop bothering me!? You're an idiot with no original thoughts. It was obviously the wind, not Bush that led to those fair catches, and if you don't think so that means you're stalking me, provoking me, and giving me an excuse to have a spermalicious conniption fit all over you! Don't poke the bear! You've been warned that responding to me or asking me to further prove my unassailable knowledge will give me license to abuse you, your family, and your sexual orientation...

That's a new one. I've never heard of someone's sexual orientation being abused.

[Zool]

Why can't you stop bothering me!? You're an idiot with no original thoughts. It was obviously the wind, not Bush that led to those fair catches, and if you don't think so that means you're stalking me, provoking me, and giving me an excuse to have a spermalicious conniption fit all over you! Don't poke the bear! You've been warned that responding to me or asking me to further prove my unassailable knowledge will give me license to abuse you, your family, and your sexual orientation...

Cant wait till Bigby comes back. If he starts I'm bumping this thread.

[mmmdk]

Why does TT keep this team on the BRINK of being great?

...why didn't anybody tell me TT thought like this? The anguish! :eyes:

[Sparkey]

You're a f*$king idiot that doesn't know how to f#@king watch a f^&king football game you goddamn poopheaded idiot! I hope you die and stop posting here forever! It was the punter's high arch that caused the fair catches, not no stinking ghey-ass Bush!


In a Freudian slip, Skin basket demonstrates why all the frustrations in his life.

Can an ASS be gay ? YES

Can an ASS stink ? YES

Can an ASS be BUSH ? Only if you're really desperate ! LOL

[woodbuck27]

" Let's talk about the punter, which you brought up. What was the "easy" way to "have a decent punter." If you want to criticize the release of Jon Ryan, in retrospect I can agree it was a mistake. " Patler

Am I set up? I'l take this chance and think..NO! :D

Thank You. Thanks. Thank You ... very much Patler. Ryan was a tremendous talent and athlete that had to grow and was let go too soon. That one really hurt this Canuck but I'm confident that TT will get it right in the end.

GO PACK GO!

[Smidgeon]

Boy, I was spot on! HA HA HA. Clearly Im a donkey and TT knows way more than me. OLB / CB and KR/PR all held up today. I have no defense. Im stupid. :oops:

The season's not over yet, so you still have a chance to be right.

Shut up Harvey! :smack:

:lol:

[Patler]

" Let's talk about the punter, which you brought up. What was the "easy" way to "have a decent punter." If you want to criticize the release of Jon Ryan, in retrospect I can agree it was a mistake. " Patler

Am I set up? I'l take this chance and think..NO! :D

Thank You. Thanks. Thank You ... very much Patler. Ryan was a tremendous talent and athlete that had to grow and was let go too soon. That one really hurt this Canuck but I'm confident that TT will get it right in the end.
GO PACK GO!

I'm not sure what your point is. In fairness to my self, I will repeat the entire punter comment: :lol:



Let's talk about the punter, which you brought up. What was the "easy" way to "have a decent punter." If you want to criticize the release of Jon Ryan, in retrospect I can agree it was a mistake. But that was done in an attempt to get better. Isn't that exactly what you want him to do? Once that attempt to become better failed, what was the way to fix it that you believe is "JUST that easy"? There have been articles several times the last couple years listing the FA options, and it was never very impressive. It looks like the problem could be fixed now, time will tell.

In retrospect, it didn't work out with Frost or the others since Frost, so it was a mistake. But I don't expect a GM to be perfect anymore than I expect the players to perform perfectly. They will all make mistakes, At the time I had no complaints about the move, and I still don't, because Ryan was inconsistent, made his fair share of mistakes (or more), and they tried to get better consistency going to another punter.

I still think that what got Ryan cut was the run he had for a first down in the preseason game just before getting cut. Looked good and turned out OK, but the coaches were irate. A fake punt had been called, but was then called off. They said 10 guys on the field knew it was off, only Ryan didn't. In a crucial game, it might have killed them.

[woodbuck27]

Packerrats high on kool aid?

Nice thread and discussion Packerrats.

We took a real hit when Ryan Grant went down last night. That was about the worst loss we could have imagined after Aaron Rodgers. That injury looked serious to me as he left the field. I've not done any follow-up in here or elsewhere to this point in time.

What's the early prognosis in terms of weeks lost for Ryan Grant?

I saw another thing.

Aaron Rodgers is still intense and looking - looking - looking. If that continues we're in trouble as in sacks and otherwise lost yards. This QB has so much talent at WR he and MM should be absolutely giddy. He should be allowed to just fire away to his WR's and spread it around and not allow the opositions 'D' to get set; the way we've seen an Ex Packer QB do 'at his best'.

Is MM being too cautious with this amazing talent we have at QB?

GO PACK GO!

[woodbuck27]

" Let's talk about the punter, which you brought up. What was the "easy" way to "have a decent punter." If you want to criticize the release of Jon Ryan, in retrospect I can agree it was a mistake. " Patler

Am I set up? I'l take this chance and think..NO! :D

Thank You. Thanks. Thank You ... very much Patler. Ryan was a tremendous talent and athlete that had to grow and was let go too soon. That one really hurt this Canuck but I'm confident that TT will get it right in the end.
GO PACK GO!

I'm not sure what your point is. In fairness to my self, I will repeat the entire punter comment: :lol:



Let's talk about the punter, which you brought up. What was the "easy" way to "have a decent punter." If you want to criticize the release of Jon Ryan, in retrospect I can agree it was a mistake. But that was done in an attempt to get better. Isn't that exactly what you want him to do? Once that attempt to become better failed, what was the way to fix it that you believe is "JUST that easy"? There have been articles several times the last couple years listing the FA options, and it was never very impressive. It looks like the problem could be fixed now, time will tell.

In retrospect, it didn't work out with Frost or the others since Frost, so it was a mistake. But I don't expect a GM to be perfect anymore than I expect the players to perform perfectly. They will all make mistakes, At the time I had no complaints about the move, and I still don't, because Ryan was inconsistent, made his fair share of mistakes (or more), and they tried to get better consistency going to another punter.

I still think that what got Ryan cut was the run he had for a first down in the preseason game just before getting cut. Looked good and turned out OK, but the coaches were irate. A fake punt had been called, but was then called off. They said 10 guys on the field knew it was off, only Ryan didn't. In a crucial game, it might have killed them.

There ... goes the wind again. Gone ! :D

but ... it didn't kill them and he never did it again. It was one of the most exciting plays we saw all season. It was 'the Canadian way'. Inspired out of necessity. :D

GO PACK!!

[Patler]

" Let's talk about the punter, which you brought up. What was the "easy" way to "have a decent punter." If you want to criticize the release of Jon Ryan, in retrospect I can agree it was a mistake. " Patler

Am I set up? I'l take this chance and think..NO! :D

Thank You. Thanks. Thank You ... very much Patler. Ryan was a tremendous talent and athlete that had to grow and was let go too soon. That one really hurt this Canuck but I'm confident that TT will get it right in the end.
GO PACK GO!

I'm not sure what your point is. In fairness to my self, I will repeat the entire punter comment: :lol:



Let's talk about the punter, which you brought up. What was the "easy" way to "have a decent punter." If you want to criticize the release of Jon Ryan, in retrospect I can agree it was a mistake. But that was done in an attempt to get better. Isn't that exactly what you want him to do? Once that attempt to become better failed, what was the way to fix it that you believe is "JUST that easy"? There have been articles several times the last couple years listing the FA options, and it was never very impressive. It looks like the problem could be fixed now, time will tell.

In retrospect, it didn't work out with Frost or the others since Frost, so it was a mistake. But I don't expect a GM to be perfect anymore than I expect the players to perform perfectly. They will all make mistakes, At the time I had no complaints about the move, and I still don't, because Ryan was inconsistent, made his fair share of mistakes (or more), and they tried to get better consistency going to another punter.

I still think that what got Ryan cut was the run he had for a first down in the preseason game just before getting cut. Looked good and turned out OK, but the coaches were irate. A fake punt had been called, but was then called off. They said 10 guys on the field knew it was off, only Ryan didn't. In a crucial game, it might have killed them.

There ... goes the wind again. Gone ! :D

but ... it didn't kill them and he never did it again. It was one of the most exciting plays we saw all season. It was 'the Canadian way'. Inspired out of necessity. :D

GO PACK!!

"Inspired out of necessity." Perhaps, or perhaps out of lack of awareness, since the run had been called off. A lot of coaches I knew, including myself, tended to use the term "boneheaded" for this type of inspiration! :lol:

No doubt that Ryan has a tremendous leg, and it appears he is learning to use it well. I hope Masthay follows a similar pattern, but with a shorter learning curve.

[Fritz]

" Let's talk about the punter, which you brought up. What was the "easy" way to "have a decent punter." If you want to criticize the release of Jon Ryan, in retrospect I can agree it was a mistake. " Patler

Am I set up? I'l take this chance and think..NO! :D

Thank You. Thanks. Thank You ... very much Patler. Ryan was a tremendous talent and athlete that had to grow and was let go too soon. That one really hurt this Canuck but I'm confident that TT will get it right in the end.
GO PACK GO!

I'm not sure what your point is. In fairness to my self, I will repeat the entire punter comment: :lol:



Let's talk about the punter, which you brought up. What was the "easy" way to "have a decent punter." If you want to criticize the release of Jon Ryan, in retrospect I can agree it was a mistake. But that was done in an attempt to get better. Isn't that exactly what you want him to do? Once that attempt to become better failed, what was the way to fix it that you believe is "JUST that easy"? There have been articles several times the last couple years listing the FA options, and it was never very impressive. It looks like the problem could be fixed now, time will tell.

In retrospect, it didn't work out with Frost or the others since Frost, so it was a mistake. But I don't expect a GM to be perfect anymore than I expect the players to perform perfectly. They will all make mistakes, At the time I had no complaints about the move, and I still don't, because Ryan was inconsistent, made his fair share of mistakes (or more), and they tried to get better consistency going to another punter.

I still think that what got Ryan cut was the run he had for a first down in the preseason game just before getting cut. Looked good and turned out OK, but the coaches were irate. A fake punt had been called, but was then called off. They said 10 guys on the field knew it was off, only Ryan didn't. In a crucial game, it might have killed them.

There ... goes the wind again. Gone ! :D

but ... it didn't kill them and he never did it again. It was one of the most exciting plays we saw all season. It was 'the Canadian way'. Inspired out of necessity. :D

GO PACK!!

The Canadian way? To miss the signal?

Nah, Canadians are better than that.

[SkinBasket]

Why can't you stop bothering me!? You're an idiot with no original thoughts. It was obviously the wind, not Bush that led to those fair catches, and if you don't think so that means you're stalking me, provoking me, and giving me an excuse to have a spermalicious conniption fit all over you! Don't poke the bear! You've been warned that responding to me or asking me to further prove my unassailable knowledge will give me license to abuse you, your family, and your sexual orientation...

Cant wait till Bigby comes back. If he starts I'm bumping this thread.

Sorry I couldn't quite summon all of our freak-outs of posters past without researching some of our favorites in depth again, and I really couldn't summon the effort.

I do remember one of dearly departed kept posting "don't poke the bear!" and all I kept picturing was said poster in a leather jumpsuit with a big beard.

Anyway, to return to that cocksmoker rand's observation, I didn't watch the punt coverage enough to comment on Bush's supposed adherence to doing his job. I will say, however, that I saw his number on defense several times, and maybe only once was it in the vicinity of a fuck-up. Then again, maybe he was being run out of bounds by a WR at the time and therefor unavailable to miss his assignments bad enough to notice.

[Zool]

Why can't you stop bothering me!? You're an idiot with no original thoughts. It was obviously the wind, not Bush that led to those fair catches, and if you don't think so that means you're stalking me, provoking me, and giving me an excuse to have a spermalicious conniption fit all over you! Don't poke the bear! You've been warned that responding to me or asking me to further prove my unassailable knowledge will give me license to abuse you, your family, and your sexual orientation...

Cant wait till Bigby comes back. If he starts I'm bumping this thread.

Sorry I couldn't quite summon all of our freak-outs of posters past without researching some of our favorites in depth again, and I really couldn't summon the effort.

I do remember one of dearly departed kept posting "don't poke the bear!" and all I kept picturing was said poster in a leather jumpsuit with a big beard.

Anyway, to return to that cocksmoker rand's observation, I didn't watch the punt coverage enough to comment on Bush's supposed adherence to doing his job. I will say, however, that I saw his number on defense several times, and maybe only once was it in the vicinity of a fuck-up. Then again, maybe he was being run out of bounds by a WR at the time and therefor unavailable to miss his assignments bad enough to notice.

Oh i just lopped off the rest of the crap cause I wanted it pointed at you specifically. Didnt even read your response. I don't thing Bigby will do shit either, I just kind of hope he does now because of this thread.

[SkinBasket]

Oh i just lopped off the rest of the crap cause I wanted it pointed at you specifically. Didnt even read your response. I don't thing Bigby will do shit either, I just kind of hope he does now because of this thread.

I poked your bear last night.

[woodbuck27]

" Let's talk about the punter, which you brought up. What was the "easy" way to "have a decent punter." If you want to criticize the release of Jon Ryan, in retrospect I can agree it was a mistake. " Patler

Am I set up? I'l take this chance and think..NO! :D

Thank You. Thanks. Thank You ... very much Patler. Ryan was a tremendous talent and athlete that had to grow and was let go too soon. That one really hurt this Canuck but I'm confident that TT will get it right in the end.
GO PACK GO!

I'm not sure what your point is. In fairness to my self, I will repeat the entire punter comment: :lol:



Let's talk about the punter, which you brought up. What was the "easy" way to "have a decent punter." If you want to criticize the release of Jon Ryan, in retrospect I can agree it was a mistake. But that was done in an attempt to get better. Isn't that exactly what you want him to do? Once that attempt to become better failed, what was the way to fix it that you believe is "JUST that easy"? There have been articles several times the last couple years listing the FA options, and it was never very impressive. It looks like the problem could be fixed now, time will tell.

In retrospect, it didn't work out with Frost or the others since Frost, so it was a mistake. But I don't expect a GM to be perfect anymore than I expect the players to perform perfectly. They will all make mistakes, At the time I had no complaints about the move, and I still don't, because Ryan was inconsistent, made his fair share of mistakes (or more), and they tried to get better consistency going to another punter.

I still think that what got Ryan cut was the run he had for a first down in the preseason game just before getting cut. Looked good and turned out OK, but the coaches were irate. A fake punt had been called, but was then called off. They said 10 guys on the field knew it was off, only Ryan didn't. In a crucial game, it might have killed them.

There ... goes the wind again. Gone ! :D

but ... it didn't kill them and he never did it again. It was one of the most exciting plays we saw all season. It was 'the Canadian way'. Inspired out of necessity. :D

GO PACK!!

The Canadian way? To miss the signal?

Nah, Canadians are better than that.

That's because we pick our role models carefully and send them before you fellas proudly.

Great Canadians like Bob and Doug McKenzie who know about alot more than beer and how to model a touque. Then there's the enormously gifted and wise Red Green and his famous nephew 'Harold' and the esteemed members of ' the Royal Order (I think) of the Possum Lodge ' and among so many others like Jim Carey. Our latest charge and prime example of Canadian peer bonding and progressive living inspit of all hardship.

The Trailer Park Boys led by ' the humane cat lover ' Bubbles. The real thrust behind all their excelllent exploits.

All of these fine men. Proud Canadians and excellent ambassadors wherever they appear or go.

Yes all these fellas, make a man like me so proud to chant the slogan.

We are Canadian.

[Travbrew]

" Let's talk about the punter, which you brought up. What was the "easy" way to "have a decent punter." If you want to criticize the release of Jon Ryan, in retrospect I can agree it was a mistake. " Patler

Am I set up? I'l take this chance and think..NO! :D

Thank You. Thanks. Thank You ... very much Patler. Ryan was a tremendous talent and athlete that had to grow and was let go too soon. That one really hurt this Canuck but I'm confident that TT will get it right in the end.
GO PACK GO!

I'm not sure what your point is. In fairness to my self, I will repeat the entire punter comment: :lol:



Let's talk about the punter, which you brought up. What was the "easy" way to "have a decent punter." If you want to criticize the release of Jon Ryan, in retrospect I can agree it was a mistake. But that was done in an attempt to get better. Isn't that exactly what you want him to do? Once that attempt to become better failed, what was the way to fix it that you believe is "JUST that easy"? There have been articles several times the last couple years listing the FA options, and it was never very impressive. It looks like the problem could be fixed now, time will tell.

In retrospect, it didn't work out with Frost or the others since Frost, so it was a mistake. But I don't expect a GM to be perfect anymore than I expect the players to perform perfectly. They will all make mistakes, At the time I had no complaints about the move, and I still don't, because Ryan was inconsistent, made his fair share of mistakes (or more), and they tried to get better consistency going to another punter.

I still think that what got Ryan cut was the run he had for a first down in the preseason game just before getting cut. Looked good and turned out OK, but the coaches were irate. A fake punt had been called, but was then called off. They said 10 guys on the field knew it was off, only Ryan didn't. In a crucial game, it might have killed them.

There ... goes the wind again. Gone ! :D

but ... it didn't kill them and he never did it again. It was one of the most exciting plays we saw all season. It was 'the Canadian way'. Inspired out of necessity. :D

GO PACK!!

The Canadian way? To miss the signal?

Nah, Canadians are better than that.

That's because we pick our role models carefully and send them before you fellas proudly.

Great Canadians like Bob and Doug McKenzie who know about alot more than beer and how to model a touque. Then there's the enormously gifted and wise Red Green and his famous nephew 'Harold' and the esteemed members of ' the Royal Order (I think) of the Possum Lodge ' and among so many others like Jim Carey. Our latest charge and prime example of Canadian peer bonding and progressive living inspit of all hardship.

The Trailer Park Boys led by ' the humane cat lover ' Bubbles. The real thrust behind all their excelllent exploits.

All of these fine men. Proud Canadians and excellent ambassadors wherever they appear or go.

Yes all these fellas, make a man like me so proud to chant the slogan.

We are Canadian.

Woody, your list is not complete without the boys from K.I.T.H.
Just don't you go and try to take me to a Leaf's game, eh?

[mraynrand]

From McGinn's Rating Eagle's versus Packers


SPECIAL TEAMS (4 1/2)

....Jarrett Bush forced two fair catches with hustle and aggressiveness.....


http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/102832814.html

[SkinBasket]

From McGinn's Rating Eagle's versus Packers


SPECIAL TEAMS (4 1/2)

....Jarrett Bush forced two fair catches with hustle and aggressiveness.....


http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/102832814.html

I bet you can't deadlift 180 pounds!

[mraynrand]

From McGinn's Rating Eagle's versus Packers


SPECIAL TEAMS (4 1/2)

....Jarrett Bush forced two fair catches with hustle and aggressiveness.....


http://www.jsonline.com/packerinsider/102832814.html

I bet you can't deadlift 180 pounds!

I can load illegal immigrants into the back of a van, two at a time. Does that count?