I'm not planning an exit!

[SkinBasket]

I'm not planning an exit. I doubt anyone else really is either. Frustration that builds for a year or two tends to make people unhappy is all.

What was appealing about this craphole was that you could not only get all your GB, and for that matter, NFL news and opinions here within minutes of their happening, but you could also be informed about wacky happenings, events in members' lives, new porn sites, economic advice, career advice, marital advice, teen pregnancy advice, and just about everything in between, if there is anything left in between.

After waiting so long (and as I said, I realize it's work and not fun, but it has been just about a couple minutes shy of eternity now) for some commitment on the administrative end, I don't think anyone's real excited about making a commitment to post those things here anymore, especially when there's no one left, and no one new, to read them.

Anyway, I think this "planning" is just more or less people not wanting to be left behind if and when their favorite characters, like Patler, wander off. Considering the bond of history between those who are left, we don't need much to survive here. Not much at all. But we ate all the promises months and months ago.

[HowardRoark]

...... but you could also be informed about wacky happenings, events in members' lives, new porn sites, economic advice, career advice, marital advice, teen pregnancy advice, and just about everything in between, if there is anything left in between.

Don't forget weight lifting advice.

[red]

...... but you could also be informed about wacky happenings, events in members' lives, new porn sites, economic advice, career advice, marital advice, teen pregnancy advice, and just about everything in between, if there is anything left in between.

Don't forget weight lifting advice.

or learning how apple is the greatest company ever

[3irty1]

However many months ago it was, Joe PMed me about helping with the new site. I once told Mad that I was familiar with Joomla (which was the cms we used) back when we had a homepage. I think I told Joe that I could help out a little with graphics and such but I'm guessing that's not what he needed help with.

I've got slightly more time now but before I volunteer for anything I'd like to know why we are switching BB software in the first place? I'm sure vbulletin is great and all but there is nothing wrong with the stuff we are using. PhpBB is probably the most popular BB forum software around.

If we were still intent on using Joomla, the current forum can be integrated more with the home page than it used to be, causing the segway from the homepage to the forum to be more seemless than before. This is what I'd propose longterm. To migrate us to a new forum software probably means setting it up on a different URL and then one day forwarding us all over there.

In my opinion the first step is for Joe to realize that there is a problem. Things would be much improved if packerrats.com would just redirect the users browser to packerrats.com/ratchat. That fix would take 5 minutes and people wouldn't have to know the secret back entrance to the forum in order to join. The broken homepage is like the site has internet AIDS and the censorship issues on this site will be the pneumonia that finishes it off.

[red]

i'm not offering to help mostly because i didn't understand a single word predator just wrote

[Brando19]

i'm not offering to help mostly because i didn't understand a single word predator just wrote


Hahahahahahahahaha....that's why you're one of my favorites.

[Little Whiskey]

It is a combination of not being familiar with the software and not having the time to do it, or the drive to read up on it.



Since the other thread was locked......

Joe, then why did you "buy" this place? it seems to me that as an owner of any forum these would be the basic qualifications.

[MichiganPackerFan]

i'm not offering to help mostly because i didn't understand a single word predator just wrote

now THAT is funny!!!

[MJZiggy]

However many months ago it was, Joe PMed me about helping with the new site. I once told Mad that I was familiar with Joomla (which was the cms we used) back when we had a homepage. I think I told Joe that I could help out a little with graphics and such but I'm guessing that's not what he needed help with.

I've got slightly more time now but before I volunteer for anything I'd like to know why we are switching BB software in the first place? I'm sure vbulletin is great and all but there is nothing wrong with the stuff we are using. PhpBB is probably the most popular BB forum software around.

If we were still intent on using Joomla, the current forum can be integrated more with the home page than it used to be, causing the segway from the homepage to the forum to be more seemless than before. This is what I'd propose longterm. To migrate us to a new forum software probably means setting it up on a different URL and then one day forwarding us all over there.

In my opinion the first step is for Joe to realize that there is a problem. Things would be much improved if packerrats.com would just redirect the users browser to packerrats.com/ratchat. That fix would take 5 minutes and people wouldn't have to know the secret back entrance to the forum in order to join. The broken homepage is like the site has internet AIDS and the censorship issues on this site will be the pneumonia that finishes it off.

Have they made joomla any easier to upload with? That stuff was always so fussy!

I don't think anyone wants to go through another migration either. But when folks like Patler speak of leaving, it's time for something to happen here, even if it's not perfect.

[falco]

I don't think anyone wants to go through another migration either. But when folks like Patler speak of leaving, it's time for something to happen here, even if it's not perfect.

+1

[3irty1]

However many months ago it was, Joe PMed me about helping with the new site. I once told Mad that I was familiar with Joomla (which was the cms we used) back when we had a homepage. I think I told Joe that I could help out a little with graphics and such but I'm guessing that's not what he needed help with.

I've got slightly more time now but before I volunteer for anything I'd like to know why we are switching BB software in the first place? I'm sure vbulletin is great and all but there is nothing wrong with the stuff we are using. PhpBB is probably the most popular BB forum software around.

If we were still intent on using Joomla, the current forum can be integrated more with the home page than it used to be, causing the segway from the homepage to the forum to be more seemless than before. This is what I'd propose longterm. To migrate us to a new forum software probably means setting it up on a different URL and then one day forwarding us all over there.

In my opinion the first step is for Joe to realize that there is a problem. Things would be much improved if packerrats.com would just redirect the users browser to packerrats.com/ratchat. That fix would take 5 minutes and people wouldn't have to know the secret back entrance to the forum in order to join. The broken homepage is like the site has internet AIDS and the censorship issues on this site will be the pneumonia that finishes it off.

Have they made joomla any easier to upload with? That stuff was always so fussy!

I don't think anyone wants to go through another migration either. But when folks like Patler speak of leaving, it's time for something to happen here, even if it's not perfect.

You mean to install or for uploading files from users? From my experience both 1.x and 1.5 have given me little trouble.

[MJZiggy]

However many months ago it was, Joe PMed me about helping with the new site. I once told Mad that I was familiar with Joomla (which was the cms we used) back when we had a homepage. I think I told Joe that I could help out a little with graphics and such but I'm guessing that's not what he needed help with.

I've got slightly more time now but before I volunteer for anything I'd like to know why we are switching BB software in the first place? I'm sure vbulletin is great and all but there is nothing wrong with the stuff we are using. PhpBB is probably the most popular BB forum software around.

If we were still intent on using Joomla, the current forum can be integrated more with the home page than it used to be, causing the segway from the homepage to the forum to be more seemless than before. This is what I'd propose longterm. To migrate us to a new forum software probably means setting it up on a different URL and then one day forwarding us all over there.

In my opinion the first step is for Joe to realize that there is a problem. Things would be much improved if packerrats.com would just redirect the users browser to packerrats.com/ratchat. That fix would take 5 minutes and people wouldn't have to know the secret back entrance to the forum in order to join. The broken homepage is like the site has internet AIDS and the censorship issues on this site will be the pneumonia that finishes it off.

Have they made joomla any easier to upload with? That stuff was always so fussy!

I don't think anyone wants to go through another migration either. But when folks like Patler speak of leaving, it's time for something to happen here, even if it's not perfect.

You mean to install or for uploading files from users? From my experience both 1.x and 1.5 have given me little trouble.

Uploading content. It was always funky and creating odd formatting when I pasted text in.

[Patler]

Just to be clear, the only reason I have considered other boards is my impression that this board is dying. The only things that need to change are bringing in new blood and encouraging some of the dearly departed to return. :lol:

I think it is bad PR to have promised new software (needed or not), have us try it and comment and suggest, tell us the conversion will happen in a week, then two more weeks; and then....nothing happens or is said. A simple announcement telling us the old software will stay would have been easy and, well, considerate in view of what transpired earlier. No one would have cared

Personally, I think the current software is fine, but I don't work with it, just post, so what our owner decides to do is fine with me. I just don't like feeling that I am be jerked around or toyed with. I know that wasn't the intent, but I don't think I am the only one who feels that way.

[3irty1]

However many months ago it was, Joe PMed me about helping with the new site. I once told Mad that I was familiar with Joomla (which was the cms we used) back when we had a homepage. I think I told Joe that I could help out a little with graphics and such but I'm guessing that's not what he needed help with.

I've got slightly more time now but before I volunteer for anything I'd like to know why we are switching BB software in the first place? I'm sure vbulletin is great and all but there is nothing wrong with the stuff we are using. PhpBB is probably the most popular BB forum software around.

If we were still intent on using Joomla, the current forum can be integrated more with the home page than it used to be, causing the segway from the homepage to the forum to be more seemless than before. This is what I'd propose longterm. To migrate us to a new forum software probably means setting it up on a different URL and then one day forwarding us all over there.

In my opinion the first step is for Joe to realize that there is a problem. Things would be much improved if packerrats.com would just redirect the users browser to packerrats.com/ratchat. That fix would take 5 minutes and people wouldn't have to know the secret back entrance to the forum in order to join. The broken homepage is like the site has internet AIDS and the censorship issues on this site will be the pneumonia that finishes it off.

Have they made joomla any easier to upload with? That stuff was always so fussy!

I don't think anyone wants to go through another migration either. But when folks like Patler speak of leaving, it's time for something to happen here, even if it's not perfect.

You mean to install or for uploading files from users? From my experience both 1.x and 1.5 have given me little trouble.

Uploading content. It was always funky and creating odd formatting when I pasted text in.

I never used the joomla installation we had. The whole wysisyg backend of joomla is prone to headaches but if done properly its not an issue at all. Joomla is all over the internet and is one of the oldest and larger full featured CMS's around. If the content stuff we had was poopy its probably just our old template. No offense to Mad or whoever made the template.

[mraynrand]

However many months ago it was, Joe PMed me about helping with the new site. I once told Mad that I was familiar with Joomla (which was the cms we used) back when we had a homepage. I think I told Joe that I could help out a little with graphics and such but I'm guessing that's not what he needed help with.

I've got slightly more time now but before I volunteer for anything I'd like to know why we are switching BB software in the first place? I'm sure vbulletin is great and all but there is nothing wrong with the stuff we are using. PhpBB is probably the most popular BB forum software around.

If we were still intent on using Joomla, the current forum can be integrated more with the home page than it used to be, causing the segway from the homepage to the forum to be more seemless than before. This is what I'd propose longterm. To migrate us to a new forum software probably means setting it up on a different URL and then one day forwarding us all over there.

In my opinion the first step is for Joe to realize that there is a problem. Things would be much improved if packerrats.com would just redirect the users browser to packerrats.com/ratchat. That fix would take 5 minutes and people wouldn't have to know the secret back entrance to the forum in order to join. The broken homepage is like the site has internet AIDS and the censorship issues on this site will be the pneumonia that finishes it off.

Have they made joomla any easier to upload with? That stuff was always so fussy!

I don't think anyone wants to go through another migration either. But when folks like Patler speak of leaving, it's time for something to happen here, even if it's not perfect.

You mean to install or for uploading files from users? From my experience both 1.x and 1.5 have given me little trouble.

Uploading content. It was always funky and creating odd formatting when I pasted text in.

I thought that only happened when Cleft Crusty gave you files from his Commodore 64.

[Scott Campbell]

I wonder if there's a place for us here:

http://www.christianforums.net/

[mraynrand]

I wonder if there's a place for us here:

http://www.christianforums.net/

I found that site very encouraging. No Harlan there however.

[MJZiggy]

However many months ago it was, Joe PMed me about helping with the new site. I once told Mad that I was familiar with Joomla (which was the cms we used) back when we had a homepage. I think I told Joe that I could help out a little with graphics and such but I'm guessing that's not what he needed help with.

I've got slightly more time now but before I volunteer for anything I'd like to know why we are switching BB software in the first place? I'm sure vbulletin is great and all but there is nothing wrong with the stuff we are using. PhpBB is probably the most popular BB forum software around.

If we were still intent on using Joomla, the current forum can be integrated more with the home page than it used to be, causing the segway from the homepage to the forum to be more seemless than before. This is what I'd propose longterm. To migrate us to a new forum software probably means setting it up on a different URL and then one day forwarding us all over there.

In my opinion the first step is for Joe to realize that there is a problem. Things would be much improved if packerrats.com would just redirect the users browser to packerrats.com/ratchat. That fix would take 5 minutes and people wouldn't have to know the secret back entrance to the forum in order to join. The broken homepage is like the site has internet AIDS and the censorship issues on this site will be the pneumonia that finishes it off.

Have they made joomla any easier to upload with? That stuff was always so fussy!

I don't think anyone wants to go through another migration either. But when folks like Patler speak of leaving, it's time for something to happen here, even if it's not perfect.

You mean to install or for uploading files from users? From my experience both 1.x and 1.5 have given me little trouble.

Uploading content. It was always funky and creating odd formatting when I pasted text in.

I thought that only happened when Cleft Crusty gave you files from his Commodore 64.

Maybe Crusty's DOS files would work better... :idea:

[CaptainKickass]

I am also not planning an exit from PR.

But yes Admin, and everyone else - I have been "cheating on you" by joining another forum that a few of you, and other former rats also post at. You'll probably never guess my poster name, and just like here - I don't really post much.

And now I feel very dirty. So dirty and violated and confused.

Is there a shelter for abused internet forum posters?

[Administrator]

However many months ago it was, Joe PMed me about helping with the new site. I once told Mad that I was familiar with Joomla (which was the cms we used) back when we had a homepage. I think I told Joe that I could help out a little with graphics and such but I'm guessing
that's not what he needed help with.

It was almost a year ago, I believe. You're right, it wasn't ultimately what I needed at the moment. After thinking about things, I also decided I was uncomfortable with the donation of "intellectual property" issues as well.

I inherited two of them when I bought this place, and I don't want any more of them.



I've got slightly more time now but before I volunteer for anything I'd like to know why we are switching BB software in the first place? I'm sure vbulletin is great and all but there is nothing wrong with the stuff we are using. PhpBB is probably the most popular BB forum software around.

I made the call to switch to Vbulletin because my initial thought was it would be easier to work with. I think that's true in terms of working with it from a user standpoint, but am not so sure it is from a development standpoint.

This particular version of PhpBB has got to go, it is far too outdated. I thought switching to the new vbulletin suite which I got a great deal on the purchase, would enable me to integrate things, and make it easier for folks to volunteer.




If we were still intent on using Joomla, the current forum can be integrated more with the home page than it used to be, causing the segway from the homepage to the forum to be more seemless than before. This is what I'd propose longterm. To migrate us to a new forum software probably means setting it up on a different URL and then one day forwarding us all over there.

The joomla home page was gone when I took over, partially due to the 1st intelectual property issue, and all I heard was complaints about how difficult it was to work with. I'm sure it's better now, but again, I was looking for two things with vbulletin, a consistent look and feel, and ease of use for both the posters and the volunteers.

At this point, I don't think I want to use joomla, I'd rather use what I paid for.




In my opinion the first step is for Joe to realize that there is a problem. Things would be much improved if packerrats.com would just redirect the users browser to packerrats.com/ratchat. That fix would take 5 minutes and people wouldn't have to know the secret back entrance to the forum in order to join. The broken homepage is like the site has internet AIDS and the censorship issues on this site will be the pneumonia that finishes it off.

I realize that there is a problem, but we probably differ on just what the problem is. There is a link on the home page, and has been for many months. I screwed with partial for a while before he left us, shortly thereafter, I fixed it.

I have no idea what you're talking about with censorship issues, and doubt I'd agree with you if I did know. You don't have the right to say anything you want, and I shouldn't have to post a bunch of rules for you to realize that.

I haven't edited very many posts in months and don't believe there are very many reasons to do that currently.


Anyway, I think this "planning" is just more or less people not wanting to be left behind if and when their favorite characters, like Patler, wander off. Considering the bond of history between those who are left, we don't need much to survive here. Not much at all. But we ate all the promises months and months ago.

A fair point. I'm guilty as charged. Not even going to try and defend it.

I'll explain it though. I realized that I alone couldn't stop all the infighting. I just had to wait for it to stop.

I put up a test beta and got very few praises. It was hard to log in, it was confusing, etc. I expected way different comments.

I wouldn't have even talked about switching, but through some email exchanges with one of our departed friends, I came to understand that there had been some issues with IP addresses. Without going into detail, it became apparent that having volunteers able to view them, that level of access could be abused, and I wasn't going to be a part of it.

So, part of my agreement with MTP was that he removed all moderator access, from every account but this one. After the email exchange, I never entertained the idea of getting new moderator help, until the software was switched. I can control myself and my intentions, but not others.

I investiged enough to know that it isn't possible to block this from moderator accounts, so thats why I'm the only one, and another reason for me to move off PHPBB. I'm sure it's fixed in the newer verisions, but didn't really care with the other issues.


Joe, then why did you "buy" this place? it seems to me that as an owner of any forum these would be the basic qualifications.

I do have "basic qualifications". Am I an expert? No, and don't want to be.

It is more than just "working with software". I can figure that out. But the infighting got to me, and I just decided I'd do little or nothing until it passed. I'm hoping we're at that point.

There was a time where virtually everything I did generated a storm of PM's complaining about this and that. Those will always happen, but hopefully not in those numbers.

I bought this place for two reasons. I knew when I agreed to the deal that there was a bunch of infighting going on. I thought being an outsider would stop that, since it appeared at the time, that most of the battle was directed at MTP and various moderator issues. I learned later that there was more than that going on, and I couldn't effect change anywhere near as fast as I thought.

Would I do it again? Probably not, but I'm here so I'm going to make the best of it.


Just to be clear, the only reason I have considered other boards is my impression that this board is dying. The only things that need to change are bringing in new blood and encouraging some of the dearly departed to return. <snip> I just don't like feeling that I am be jerked around or toyed with. I know that wasn't the intent, but I don't think I am the only one who feels that way.

Did I procrastinate making changes? To quote our former VP candidate, "YOU BETCHA". In hindsight, I think it might be a good thing but there was certainly no forethought. Was I "jerking you around"? No, surely not intentionally anyhow, but I did go through a period of time where I didn't care whether or not it ever got fixed. I probably should have explained that, but, at the time, I didn't want to listen to the comments so I stayed quiet.

I'm glad that we aren't out there in the search engines right now. We didn't really have anything attractive to offer anyone to sign up, except a bunch of drama.

New blood will follow once we have changes to the home page, and get listed in the search engines. But from my perspective, that's only a small part of it.

The real attraction comes from the posters. If you all post quality analysis, and quality opinion, that is what will drive folks to this site and make it a destination again. What I can provide is relatively minor. I think you guys drive the traffic flow here. It either becomes an attractive place to spend time or an unattractive place to spend time.

Until very recently, and for the past year, I don't think you guys have had much to offer and I believe that is the biggest reason folks have wandered away.

Some will never come back, and some probably will.


But yes Admin, and everyone else - I have been "cheating on you" by joining another forum that a few of you, and other former rats also post at. You'll probably never guess my poster name, and just like here - I don't really post much.

That doesn't bother me in the least. I hope that everyone posts at least one other place. The stuff here will be very stale if you don't.

I was talking about a mass exodus, which is a different thing entirely.

You don't have to hide your poster identity from me, and around here, I wish you'd post more. You've got a great sense of humor, some of the stuff you come up with is really funny.



Is there a shelter for abused internet forum posters?


I wish that could be here. But that's really up to the collective group. I can make rules to that effect, but, if someone steps up and attacks the new person, it won't work, even if it's someone different doing the attacking each time.

Here is the deal I'll make with whoever is left and whomever is interested in making a deal.

I'll fix the site, pay for a vbulletin skin so we don't have the boring default "blue" installation, but from that point, some of you have to jump in.

We need volunteers to write articles (I have a couple), volunteers to edit/proof/post them, and volunteers to moderate. I believe we need at least 3 blogs that are updated regularly, and we may need other help too.

I'm not going to accept volunteer help related to site software and programming, or anything resembling that until we have some type of written agreement giving the site the ability to use it for as long as it chooses. I don't want ownership, but I don't want to be in the position of having my ability to use something "revoked" because someone got their feeling hurt either.

I'll contribute the money to the effort for now, and I've even investigated a place where I can buy licensed images. I figure that's the least I can do if someone is willing to spend their time writing an article. It is pay by the 1k views, so it could get expensive, but I'm willing to give it a try to see if it would work, related to the home page only. Posting licensed images in the forums would probably bankrupt me.

We just can't grow by abusing copywrite and intellectual property laws. I don't want any more of those complaints either.

Love to hear your thoughts, and if you have criticisms, send those to me individually. I promise that I will respond to them.

[mraynrand]

If you spent as much time on the forum as you did on those responses, it would probably be revamped. :D The same could probably be said for my career.

[Administrator]

I'm slow, but I'd like to think I'm thorough. :wink:

[Patler]

Just to be clear, the only reason I have considered other boards is my impression that this board is dying. The only things that need to change are bringing in new blood and encouraging some of the dearly departed to return. <snip> I just don't like feeling that I am be jerked around or toyed with. I know that wasn't the intent, but I don't think I am the only one who feels that way.

Did I procrastinate making changes? To quote our former VP candidate, "YOU BETCHA". In hindsight, I think it might be a good thing but there was certainly no forethought. Was I "jerking you around"? No, surely not intentionally anyhow, but I did go through a period of time where I didn't care whether or not it ever got fixed. I probably should have explained that, but, at the time, I didn't want to listen to the comments so I stayed quiet.

I'm glad that we aren't out there in the search engines right now. We didn't really have anything attractive to offer anyone to sign up, except a bunch of drama.

New blood will follow once we have changes to the home page, and get listed in the search engines. But from my perspective, that's only a small part of it.

The real attraction comes from the posters. If you all post quality analysis, and quality opinion, that is what will drive folks to this site and make it a destination again. What I can provide is relatively minor. I think you guys drive the traffic flow here. It either becomes an attractive place to spend time or an unattractive place to spend time.

Until very recently, and for the past year, I don't think you guys have had much to offer and I believe that is the biggest reason folks have wandered away.

Some will never come back, and some probably will.

All rightee then!!! Thanks for making that clear.
People can't find the site.
Those that do find it can't get registered.
For a long time, those who found the homepage couldn't get to the board.
But it's our fault that people don't come here??? :roll:

[mraynrand]

Just to be clear, the only reason I have considered other boards is my impression that this board is dying. The only things that need to change are bringing in new blood and encouraging some of the dearly departed to return. <snip> I just don't like feeling that I am be jerked around or toyed with. I know that wasn't the intent, but I don't think I am the only one who feels that way.

Did I procrastinate making changes? To quote our former VP candidate, "YOU BETCHA". In hindsight, I think it might be a good thing but there was certainly no forethought. Was I "jerking you around"? No, surely not intentionally anyhow, but I did go through a period of time where I didn't care whether or not it ever got fixed. I probably should have explained that, but, at the time, I didn't want to listen to the comments so I stayed quiet.

I'm glad that we aren't out there in the search engines right now. We didn't really have anything attractive to offer anyone to sign up, except a bunch of drama.

New blood will follow once we have changes to the home page, and get listed in the search engines. But from my perspective, that's only a small part of it.

The real attraction comes from the posters. If you all post quality analysis, and quality opinion, that is what will drive folks to this site and make it a destination again. What I can provide is relatively minor. I think you guys drive the traffic flow here. It either becomes an attractive place to spend time or an unattractive place to spend time.

Until very recently, and for the past year, I don't think you guys have had much to offer and I believe that is the biggest reason folks have wandered away.

Some will never come back, and some probably will.

All rightee then!!! Thanks for making that clear.
People can't find the site.
Those that do find it can't get registered.
For a long time, those who found the homepage couldn't get to the board.
But it's our fault that people don't come here??? :roll:

No, no. He's saying that he was protecting the crowds from us. Even had the whole world known about Packerrats, our infighting would have driven them away. Kindof like being a invited to dinner at the Bunkers.

http://www.dvdtalk.com/reviews/images/reviews/190/1244454374_1.jpg

[Tarlam!]

I'm not planning an exit either, but what Patler paraphrased seems accurate and coming from our owner, is very worrying.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Thanks admin for taking the time to explain a lot of open questions.

[Administrator]

All rightee then!!! Thanks for making that clear.
People can't find the site.
Those that do find it can't get registered.
For a long time, those who found the homepage couldn't get to the board.
But it's our fault that people don't come here??? :roll:

Patler, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

However, for a guy who thinks facts are the most important thing, I find it concerning that you interpreted "biggest" for "only".

I didn't say that the forum was to "blame", rather I said the forum was and is a part of what's going on. I personally believe having good inviting discussion is more important than being discoverable through google and having a good homepage, but that is my opinion and I am entitled to it, and it was presented as such.

You also ignored the other places where I said that I didn't follow through. Where I said I didn't complete the new site, didn't communicate that, and further went through a period of time where I didn't care whether or not it got done.

If that's the way you truly feel, good for you for expressing it, but I don't agree.

[Patler]

All rightee then!!! Thanks for making that clear.
People can't find the site.
Those that do find it can't get registered.
For a long time, those who found the homepage couldn't get to the board.
But it's our fault that people don't come here??? :roll:

Patler, you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

However, for a guy who thinks facts are the most important thing, I find it concerning that you interpreted "biggest" for "only".

I didn't say that the forum was to "blame", rather I said the forum was and is a part of what's going on. I personally believe having good inviting discussion is more important than being discoverable through google and having a good homepage, but that is my opinion and I am entitled to it, and it was presented as such.

You also ignored the other places where I said that I didn't follow through. Where I said I didn't complete the new site, didn't communicate that, and further went through a period of time where I didn't care whether or not it got done.

If that's the way you truly feel, good for you for expressing it, but I don't agree.

Gee, thanks for telling me I am entitled to my own opinion, but where did I say it was the "only" reason? However, you certainly made it clear where you thought the major problem was.

I didn't expect you would agree with me, I don't expect you to be convinced, and unfortunately, I don't expect anything to change.

[Administrator]

Gee, thanks for telling me I am entitled to my own opinion, but where did I say it was the "only" reason? However, you certainly made it clear where you thought the major problem was.

I didn't expect you would agree with me, I don't expect you to be convinced, and unfortunately, I don't expect anything to change.

Can you really read what you wrote and not reach the conclusion that you meant "only"? What other explanation could there be when you say:


But it's our fault that people don't come here???

You cherry picked two sentences out of a half a book, and formed a conclusion that I was blaming the forum for the issues.

It wasn't accurate. It wasn't in context.

It would be very easy for another poster to cherry pick two other sentences and claim that I took all the blame for the predicament. That wouldn't be accurate either.

[Patler]

Gee, thanks for telling me I am entitled to my own opinion, but where did I say it was the "only" reason? However, you certainly made it clear where you thought the major problem was.

I didn't expect you would agree with me, I don't expect you to be convinced, and unfortunately, I don't expect anything to change.

Can you really read what you wrote and not reach the conclusion that you meant "only"? What other explanation could there be when you say:


But it's our fault that people don't come here???

You cherry picked two sentences out of a half a book, and formed a conclusion that I was blaming the forum for the issues.

It wasn't accurate. It wasn't in context.

It would be very easy for another poster to cherry pick two other sentences and claim that I took all the blame for the predicament. That wouldn't be accurate either.

I cherry picked two sentences?
It wasn't accurate?
It wasn't in context?
I quoted your entire reply to my post. How is that cherry picking, inaccurate or taking out of context?
I bolded two sentences within your reply that I believe were key insights and commented on them. If you want a rambling screed I can give you one, but I assumed a pointed discussion about specific issues might be more productive.

[Patler]

Just to be clear, the only reason I have considered other boards is my impression that this board is dying. The only things that need to change are bringing in new blood and encouraging some of the dearly departed to return. <snip> I just don't like feeling that I am be jerked around or toyed with. I know that wasn't the intent, but I don't think I am the only one who feels that way.

Did I procrastinate making changes? To quote our former VP candidate, "YOU BETCHA". In hindsight, I think it might be a good thing but there was certainly no forethought. Was I "jerking you around"? No, surely not intentionally anyhow, but I did go through a period of time where I didn't care whether or not it ever got fixed. I probably should have explained that, but, at the time, I didn't want to listen to the comments so I stayed quiet.

I'm glad that we aren't out there in the search engines right now. We didn't really have anything attractive to offer anyone to sign up, except a bunch of drama.

New blood will follow once we have changes to the home page, and get listed in the search engines. But from my perspective, that's only a small part of it.

The real attraction comes from the posters. If you all post quality analysis, and quality opinion, that is what will drive folks to this site and make it a destination again. What I can provide is relatively minor. I think you guys drive the traffic flow here. It either becomes an attractive place to spend time or an unattractive place to spend time.

Until very recently, and for the past year, I don't think you guys have had much to offer and I believe that is the biggest reason folks have wandered away.

Some will never come back, and some probably will.

I have quoted your entire reply to my post.
I have made no changes in it, other than bolding, which I will discuss below.

I believe there is a common theme in your reply to my post, which is that the major problem here is us, the posters. I believe the sentences I have highlighted in bold text support my opinion. I think that you should see that, save for the last, single sentence paragraph, every paragraph in your reply to me focused on shifting the blame for your actions or inactions to us, the posters. Perhaps I am wrong in that interpretation, but never the less, all your comments came back toward us.

Now I could offer comments on your replies to other posters' postings, but I don't see the value in that when you provided a direct response to one of my posts. I believe it is more productive to keep my replies to your response to my original post. That way, you and I can have a discussion about specific issues.

[Administrator]

Patler, I think now I understand.

My responses last night were designed to be taken as a composite whole, that's why I went to the effort to past quotes and comments into a single post. At the same time, I wanted to address individual points that were important to particular posters.

Just because I didn't mention my responsibilities in the context of the reply to you doesn't mean that they aren't relevant. I do not believe that you can read the entire post and come away with a singular perspective that I believe the forum responsible.

I do believe that the forum shares responsibility for the state we're in today. I also believe that I did not follow through on what I said I would do, and I also bear responsibility.

It is also my opinion that if we weren't in google search, and we didn't have a home page, but had great discussion, folks would find us and stay. I further believe that if we had a great home page, the top ranked google search, and crappy discussion full of infighting, folks would easily find us and then almost immediately leave. I would clearly prefer situation 1 if I had to choose, others may not. Hope that puts my overall message into context.

[mraynrand]

It is also my opinion that if we weren't in google search, and we didn't have a home page, but had great discussion, folks would find us and stay. I further believe that if we had a great home page, the top ranked google search, and crappy discussion full of infighting, folks would easily find us and then almost immediately leave. I would clearly prefer situation 1 if I had to choose, others may not. Hope that puts my overall message into context.

You've set up a strawman argument here in a sense. Who wouldn't prefer choice 1 over choice 2? The truth is Packerrats has great discussion and infighting. The combination of a great homepage, easy linkage, a strong moderating presence and reasonable, simple rules (Harlan?) would result in an exciting dynamic page. As with anything else, you get out what you put in. Garbage in, garbage out.

Right now, the attraction of Packerrats - the only attraction - are the quality posters, almost exclusively in the Packer forum. I mean Patler, Harv, PBmax, Fritz, and others like them. I can list off at least 5 other forums that currently provide what you provide (and more). What exactly are you providing? What do you intend to provide in the future? What would you like from us? What do you expect/demand of us? How can we move forward and get out of this rut?

[Freak Out]

It is also my opinion that if we weren't in google search, and we didn't have a home page, but had great discussion, folks would find us and stay. I further believe that if we had a great home page, the top ranked google search, and crappy discussion full of infighting, folks would easily find us and then almost immediately leave. I would clearly prefer situation 1 if I had to choose, others may not. Hope that puts my overall message into context.

You've set up a strawman argument here in a sense. Who wouldn't prefer choice 1 over choice 2? The truth is Packerrats has great discussion and infighting. The combination of a great homepage, easy linkage, a strong moderating presence and reasonable, simple rules (Harlan?) would result in an exciting dynamic page. As with anything else, you get out what you put in. Garbage in, garbage out.

Right now, the attraction of Packerrats - the only attraction - are the quality posters, almost exclusively in the Packer forum. I mean Patler, Harv, PBmax, Fritz, and others like them. I can list off at least 5 other forums that currently provide what you provide (and more). What exactly are you providing? What do you intend to provide in the future? What would you like from us? What do you expect/demand of us? How can we move forward and get out of this rut?

:tup:

[red]

i think a lot of the infighter or the deterioration of the content has to do with the fact that many of us have been together for many years, in same cases as many as 7 or 8 years. we already know what each other is thinking and we've already discussed the same topics over and over again numerous times. thats why we absolutely have to have new blood, to add something new to the mix

you don't have to do everything now. just fix the log-in and registration, and get a simple home page up and running so people can find us on a search engine.

if things then start to pick up and turn around then do the other things you have in mind.

if that doesn't work, then this site will continue to die a very slow death.

keeping things the way they are now is not going to improve anything, and really doesn't give anyone any reason to invest much time here

[red]

and where exactly is all this infighting and crappy posting? i don't see it.

i see things that every forum has. except there's only like 10 people taking part in everything

[sheepshead]

Joe,

I dont think you have the correct demeanor and/or life experience for an open forum like this.

[CaptainKickass]

Joe Admin -

I appreciate your compliment, and your wish that I post more often. I come here for entertainment, information, and questions that others think of that I had not thought of. In that order.

Historically - I post more often when I have more time. It comes and goes with the demands on my life, and of course with the football season.

Contributing to this place is a completely voluntary act and on my terms - basically when I feel like it. Anything else - again on a voluntary basis - involves added responsibility. Write an article, do an analysis, run some numbers for stats, review a game - once, monthly, weekly whatever it is - I would feel compelled to meet a deadline or deliver on a promise, something I'm not currently willing to do for this place because I have no real vested interest.

You'll either make this place into your vision of what you want - or you won't. I'll be fine either way. So will everyone else. What I wouldn't do in your shoes is cater to the requests of the people that post here because - as you've already pointed out - you get a bunch of mixed messages and feedback about this that or the other. I'm not saying folks won't have good suggestions, but you can't make anyone happy. I repeat: You can't make anyone happy.

If you're good with how this site is, leave it be. If you want it to be different, change it the way you want. Do it all yourself, the way you want it. If it takes you a long time - so what? Do it the way you feel is correct. I'd be curious to see it as a finished creation based solely on your vision.

[MJZiggy]

Joe Admin -


If you're good with how this site is, leave it be. If you want it to be different, change it the way you want. Do it all yourself, the way you want it. If it takes you a long time - so what? Do it the way you feel is correct. I'd be curious to see it as a finished creation based solely on your vision.

While I think this was a good post, the problem with this little bit is that as I understand what Joe wants from this place, one person (with any kind of life) can't do that alone. It takes contributions from those who do have an interest.

[CaptainKickass]

Joe Admin -


If you're good with how this site is, leave it be. If you want it to be different, change it the way you want. Do it all yourself, the way you want it. If it takes you a long time - so what? Do it the way you feel is correct. I'd be curious to see it as a finished creation based solely on your vision.

While I think this was a good post, the problem with this little bit is that as I understand what Joe wants from this place, one person (with any kind of life) can't do that alone. It takes contributions from those who do have an interest.

I agree with you Zig. The spirit of my post was just for Joe to do it his way on his own terms, with a nod to the old adage "If you want something done right - you do it yourself".

[MadtownPacker]

What the fuck is all this shit?? You sory MFers are talking about leaving?? Oh fuck no, Joe what is going on?

Joe, this place cant die, thats not what we agreed to. Check it out, I am gonna be off work for the next few weeks, let me help you out man. I dont know about vbulletein shit but I didnt know about PHPBB either and got it to work good enough. Call me I can still be reached at the same number,

[Little Whiskey]

Check it out, I am gonna be off work for the next few weeks,

Call me I can still be reached at the same number,

I thought your phone service got cut off?

and what do you mean your off work? this is harvest time. get your ass up here and start picking apples!

[SkinBasket]

What the fuck is all this shit?? You sory MFers are talking about leaving?? Oh fuck no, Joe what is going on?

If you could read American English, you would know that no one's planning to leave, thus the title of the thread. But people sure seem to be getting bored of waiting for nothing to happen, and with the broken homepage, broken link to the forum, nonexistent search results, and broken registration all being factors in the past 2 years or whatever it's been now, it's obvious the membership is suffering, and not for lack of poster content - in my opinion.

[red]

What the fuck is all this shit?? You sory MFers are talking about leaving?? Oh fuck no, Joe what is going on?

Joe, this place cant die, thats not what we agreed to. Check it out, I am gonna be off work for the next few weeks, let me help you out man. I dont know about vbulletein shit but I didnt know about PHPBB either and got it to work good enough. Call me I can still be reached at the same number,

no, we weren't allowed to talk about leaving

http://www.packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=21060

good to see you back mad, and thanks for offering to help turn things around. as you can see, we're a complete fucking mess

[Scott Campbell]

Today was one of the most active days I've ever seen here. And then it wasn't.

[mraynrand]

Today was one of the most active days I've ever seen here. And then it wasn't.

:?: