National Football Post: Randy Moss and the Green Bay Packers

[DannoMac21]

Great read from Andrew Brandt.

http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Randys-rant-was-almost-a-Packer-twice.html


The strange ranting of Randy Moss this week takes me back to the weekend of the 2007 Draft; much of it spent trying to sign Moss. It was a brief but intense negotiation that fueled some fire with Brett Favre when, for the first of two times, the Packers couldn’t agree with Moss on a contract.

Moss for sale

The Raiders bold experiment with Moss – they had traded Napoleon Harris and the 7th pick in the 2005 Draft for him – ended after two seasons when Moss could be had for a mid-round pick. Ted Thompson surprisingly had some interest, having been impressed with the way Moss handled himself at a charity event that he happened to be at in Texas. And Brett, of course, was extremely jazzed about the idea.

Now there were two parts to the deal to make it happen. First, there had to be agreement with the Raiders on draft pick compensation. We were offering a fifth-round pick and the Patriots later came up with a fourth. That, however, was the not the key to the deal.

One-year deal breaker

Moss was scheduled to make $9.75 million for 2007 and $11.25 million in 2008. Those amounts may well have been $100 million and $200 million; he was not making what was on the contract. We needed to bring in Moss, coming off a year with a pedestrian 43 receptions, at a more reasonable number with upside. The Patriots were also showing interest.

I negotiated with Moss’s agent while the recruiting from the alpha dogs – Brett and Tom Brady -- intensified. Moss was getting texts and calls throughout the weekend from both Favre and Brady both imploring him to come and form a powerhouse duo.

The offers from both teams were very similar for 2007, both around $3 million with additional incentives. Our proposal allowed Moss to make more than the Patriots proposal, although we had significant money tied to 45-man active roster bonuses, protecting us from injury if he could not play.

Our offer, however, required a second year in 2008. Moss and his agents were adamant that he wanted only a one-year deal. Having lost market value from his Raider experience, Moss would agree to a massive pay reduction for 2007 but wanted to hit the open market in 2008 coming off what he expected to be a big season.

The feeling in our discussions was that we did not want to rent Randy for a year only to have him shop to highest bidder in a few months trying to recoup some of his lost earnings in 2007. We discussed different ideas, but in the end we were insistent on a two-year deal. While we haggled about an appropriate roster bonus to activate the second year of the deal, the Patriots relented on the length and agreed to a one-year deal. That was it; he was going with Brady.

Mississippi burning

Brett was livid. The rest of the weekend I was fielding calls from Bus Cook about what went wrong in trying to sign Randy. Ted did not want to deal with Bus, so I listened patiently to their rancor and tried to explain our position.

I truly empathized with Brett. He had befriended and admired Randy for years and the two of them had dreamed of playing together. Here was an opportunity for us to make it a reality. But ultimately, we stood on our principles requiring more than a one-year commitment.

I told Brett to trust what we had at the position; that Greg Jennings would be a star in a couple years. He said he didn’t have a couple of years. Brett offered to give up some of his salary for the following season – although that was his last season with the Packers (see below) -- to bring in Randy. I told that was much appreciated but we would never take his money away from him to sign another player.

Brett was forever wanting a more aggressive attitude by the front office toward player acquisition than the present regime. My constant message that our method of drafting and developing talent rather than acquiring proven commodities only served to infuriate him and his resentment of a general manager that showed him none of the compassion and welcomed input of previous regimes.

Patriot games

Fast forward to 2008. After a wonderful year for the Patriots, catching 98 balls for 1493 yards and 23 touchdowns, Moss was a free agent as he designed, now with interest from several teams to cash in on his one-year deal. And cash in he did, re-signing with the Patriots for a three-year, $27 million deal with over $14 million guaranteed.

And guess what team showed some decent interest again in 2008? Yes, the Packers (along with the Eagles and Cowboys). But again, despite getting Brett's hopes up again, the Packers bowed out of the bidding (I had left the Packers at that point but heard the anger and frustration from Brett’s camp). Moss re-signed with the Patriots on March 3rd. Favre retired from the Packers on March 4th. Coincidence?

Whither Randy?

Now Moss is coming to the end of that deal with deafening silence from the Patriots about re-signing for the third time. A lot can change between now and March, but it appears he has had his run wit the team, and it’s been a successful and lucrative one. And one that found the Packers in second place for his services twice.

[3irty1]

So.... he's clearly going to be a viking again?

[pbmax]

Well look at that. All the moaning and complaining about Ted's fixation on draft picks and it turns out his detractors should be moaning about the length of the deal. And Thompson actually liked Moss and had met him. He didn't scare him off with his reticence and unwillingness to recruit. He did not flinch when presented with the opportunity to acquire a player who had been in someone else's training camp.

The draft pick differential was probably an AFC surcharge because the Raiders would be more likely to play against him. The Patriots didn't sneak in, but Tom Brady was doing to same thing Favre was.

Stunning, that it all came down to a negotiation and the assignment of risk.

We will need a new meme for Ted guys.

By the way, one old meme that can be reconsidered: local radio knobhead yesterday told his listeners that the reason Thompson didn't sign Willie Parker or Ahman Green is that he needs to be smarter than everyone else. So he picked someone we had never heard of. I see a bright future in politics for this dip.

[retailguy]

Thanks for posting this Danno. I really enjoyed the read and learned a lot from it that i didnt' know! :bclap:

[mraynrand]

that blows a lot of my theories out of the water.

[Brandon494]

No surprise there, thanks for posting

[pbmax]

Well look at that. All the moaning and complaining about Ted's fixation on draft picks and it turns out his detractors should be moaning about the length of the deal. And Thompson actually liked Moss and had met him. He didn't scare him off with his reticence and unwillingness to recruit. He did not flinch when presented with the opportunity to acquire a player who had been in someone else's training camp.

The draft pick differential was probably an AFC surcharge because the Raiders would be more likely to play against him. The Patriots didn't sneak in, but Tom Brady was doing to same thing Favre was.

Stunning, that it all came down to a negotiation and the assignment of risk.

We will need a new meme for Ted guys.

By the way, one old meme that can be reconsidered: local radio knobhead yesterday told his listeners that the reason Thompson didn't sign Willie Parker or Ahman Green is that he needs to be smarter than everyone else. So he picked someone we had never heard of. I see a bright future in politics for this dip.
Well, I'd delete this but that would be cowardly. As someone who has pleaded for peace on the board before, this post doesn't help.

Apologies for the tone and content. I shouldn't have posted this. But I am grateful no one took the bait. And I am grateful to finally hear this story. Thanks for the post Danno.

[mraynrand]

Apology Accepted

http://massassi.hobby-site.com/massassi/pictures/episode_5/img/space13.jpg

The last paragraph was pretty good though...

[superfan]

Fantastic article, thanks for sharing. Fun to hear Brandt talk about his time in GB, and he offers a glimpse into the Ted Thompson gated community that you don't get anywhere else.

Couple real gems in here:


He said he didn’t have a couple of years.

:lol:

Pretty funny in retrospect.


Brett was forever wanting a more aggressive attitude by the front office toward player acquisition than the present regime. My constant message that our method of drafting and developing talent rather than acquiring proven commodities only served to infuriate him and his resentment of a general manager that showed him none of the compassion and welcomed input of previous regimes.

In two sentences Brandt manages to sum up the ugly Favre/GB divorce better than anything I've read or heard elsewhere.


Moss re-signed with the Patriots on March 3rd. Favre retired from the Packers on March 4th. Coincidence?

Interesting, haven't seen that connection made elsewhere.

Overall the explanation of how the Moss signing went down makes sense to me, and I don't disagree with the reasoning on requiring two years. Definitely more of a "fiscally responsible" (i.e. cheap) than "sexy and risk taking" decision, but that's fairly consistent with this regime, and as we are seeing now not a bad way to run a franchise.

However, what I would really like to know is if they ever factored into the Moss deal the possibility that not signing Moss would cause them to alienate their franchise QB. They must have known Favre would be pissed. In essence, they decided his reaction wasn't worth the risk of signing Moss for one year vs two. Ouch. They must have decided then that they were prepared to roll the dice with Rodgers if necessary. An extremely bold move considering there were few indicators (at least to us fans) at that point that Rodgers would amount to anything.

[gbgary]

So.... he's clearly going to be a viking again?

no...he's going to the highest bidder.

[woodbuck27]

Well look at that. All the moaning and complaining about Ted's fixation on draft picks and it turns out his detractors should be moaning about the length of the deal. And Thompson actually liked Moss and had met him. He didn't scare him off with his reticence and unwillingness to recruit. He did not flinch when presented with the opportunity to acquire a player who had been in someone else's training camp.

The draft pick differential was probably an AFC surcharge because the Raiders would be more likely to play against him. The Patriots didn't sneak in, but Tom Brady was doing to same thing Favre was.

Stunning, that it all came down to a negotiation and the assignment of risk.

We will need a new meme for Ted guys.

By the way, one old meme that can be reconsidered: local radio knobhead yesterday told his listeners that the reason Thompson didn't sign Willie Parker or Ahman Green is that he needs to be smarter than everyone else. So he picked someone we had never heard of. I see a bright future in politics for this dip.
Well, I'd delete this but that would be cowardly. As someone who has pleaded for peace on the board before, this post doesn't help.

Apologies for the tone and content. I shouldn't have posted this. But I am grateful no one took the bait. And I am grateful to finally hear this story. Thanks for the post Danno.

I'll take your position here pbmax and not post my feelings on this account of how the Randy Moss 'no deal' with 'the Packers' didn't go down.

I can see Favre's position and TT's as well. We all now know exactly how this contributed to the final fallout between Favre and TT. This story pretty well confirms what I've always thought. The story fr. Mr. Andrew Brandt verifys the details of this attempt to add Randy Moss to our side for the 2007 seaon.

If? Randy Moss ( for really cheap $ ), Donald Driver and Greg Jennings and whomever made it as our 4th WR, could have been targets for Favre? We can only imagine the outcome for the 2007-08 season. It's just a question mark for Packer history?

We have the story finally. It's merely now for some. A shoulda, coulda, woulda; or others, it's over, done and past.

Today, it's for me:

GO PACK GO! :D

[pbmax]

Brett was forever wanting a more aggressive attitude by the front office toward player acquisition than the present regime. My constant message that our method of drafting and developing talent rather than acquiring proven commodities only served to infuriate him and his resentment of a general manager that showed him none of the compassion and welcomed input of previous regimes.

In two sentences Brandt manages to sum up the ugly Favre/GB divorce better than anything I've read or heard elsewhere.
The bolded is either oddly worded (it hardly makes the comparison seem balanced) or a hint of Brandt's true feelings. In either case, I think we also have a glance at why Brandt left. At least from his perspective. If you are the one tasked with explaining Thompson's moves to both the star player and his agent, it would be a small matter of time before that became exhausting given the relationship. Brandt elsewhere said he advised Thompson to have a direct face to face meeting with Favre and explain why things were going to be different with him at the helm.

Given the leeway Favre had been used to under his previous GM, its a little easier to see how one side thought he was unwanted and the other side thought the player believed the front office worked for him. Neither wanted to have a meeting to clear the air (Brandt previously indicated Favre had resisted similar suggestions) but I wonder if that was because neither side felt it would help, or because they were already in a face off and wanted to see who would blink first.

[woodbuck27]

Reading the stuff Aaron Rodgers is putting out there RE: a possible acquisition of Bills RB, Marshawn Lynch:

Makes me want to unload my true feeling RE: the botched, yet very possible and affordable Randy Moss acqisition for our 2007 season.

It seems that if Aaron didn't learn alot from Brett Favre under his tutilege. Aaron learned that it is OK to speak your mind to the press Re: matters that are (according to certain members of PackerRats) the exclusive ordain of the teams GM to deal with.

I wonder if Aaron Rodgers will be advised to keep his feelings to himself RE: such matters concerning player movement and aquisitions and media questions in regards to these matters?

Will MM and / or TT be advising Aaron to make the Ole ' no comment response ' to such questions in the future? I'm thinking of the shit that sort of thing got Brett Favre into.

GO PACKERS!

[Tony Oday]

Reading the stuff Aaron Rodgers is putting out there RE: a possible acquisition of Bills RB, Marshawn Lynch:

Makes me want to unload my true feeling RE: the botched, yet very possible and affordable Randy Moss acqisition for our 2007 season.

It seems that if Aaron didn't learn alot from Brett Favre under his tutilege. Aaron learned that it is OK to speak your mind to the press Re: matters that are (according to certain members of PackerRats) the exclusive ordain of the teams GM to deal with.

I wonder if Aaron Rodgers will be advised to keep his feelings to himself RE: such matters concerning player movement and aquisitions and media questions in regards to these matters?

Will MM and / or TT be advising Aaron to make the Ole ' no comment response ' to such questions in the future? I'm thinking of the shit that sort of thing got Brett Favre into.

GO PACKERS!
Unless he threatens a retirement I dont think either MM or TT care...

[woodbuck27]

Reading the stuff Aaron Rodgers is putting out there RE: a possible acquisition of Bills RB, Marshawn Lynch:

Makes me want to unload my true feeling RE: the botched, yet very possible and affordable Randy Moss acqisition for our 2007 season.

It seems that if Aaron didn't learn alot from Brett Favre under his tutilege. Aaron learned that it is OK to speak your mind to the press Re: matters that are (according to certain members of PackerRats) the exclusive ordain of the teams GM to deal with.

I wonder if Aaron Rodgers will be advised to keep his feelings to himself RE: such matters concerning player movement and aquisitions and media questions in regards to these matters?

Will MM and / or TT be advising Aaron to make the Ole ' no comment response ' to such questions in the future? I'm thinking of the shit that sort of thing got Brett Favre into.

GO PACKERS!
Unless he threatens a retirement I dont think either MM or TT care...

Precisely.

[pbmax]

Reading the stuff Aaron Rodgers is putting out there RE: a possible acquisition of Bills RB, Marshawn Lynch:

Makes me want to unload my true feeling RE: the botched, yet very possible and affordable Randy Moss acqisition for our 2007 season.

It seems that if Aaron didn't learn alot from Brett Favre under his tutilege. Aaron learned that it is OK to speak your mind to the press Re: matters that are (according to certain members of PackerRats) the exclusive ordain of the teams GM to deal with.

I wonder if Aaron Rodgers will be advised to keep his feelings to himself RE: such matters concerning player movement and aquisitions and media questions in regards to these matters?

Will MM and / or TT be advising Aaron to make the Ole ' no comment response ' to such questions in the future? I'm thinking of the shit that sort of thing got Brett Favre into.

GO PACKERS!
If Rodgers goes on National TV to complain he expects to be listened to and is disappointed he wasn't, then I think he would get the same advice.

When he offers an endorsement of a former teammate in response to a hypothetical question from the Packer front office, then the QB is on different ground. If he appears on The View to complain, then the advice might change.

[RashanGary]

We knew a lot of that stuff. Nothing here shocks me.

The thing that's nice to read is that Brandt seems to think Brett was furious that they didn't acquire the players Brett wanted, so he was furious. With that, to me, it further shows that Ted made the right decision. Brett's attitude was becoming toxic.

[sharpe1027]

Reading the stuff Aaron Rodgers is putting out there RE: a possible acquisition of Bills RB, Marshawn Lynch:

Makes me want to unload my true feeling RE: the botched, yet very possible and affordable Randy Moss acqisition for our 2007 season.

It seems that if Aaron didn't learn alot from Brett Favre under his tutilege. Aaron learned that it is OK to speak your mind to the press Re: matters that are (according to certain members of PackerRats) the exclusive ordain of the teams GM to deal with.

I wonder if Aaron Rodgers will be advised to keep his feelings to himself RE: such matters concerning player movement and aquisitions and media questions in regards to these matters?

Will MM and / or TT be advising Aaron to make the Ole ' no comment response ' to such questions in the future? I'm thinking of the shit that sort of thing got Brett Favre into.

GO PACKERS!

I think that the comparison is a bit off. Now, if A Rod gets pissed after M. Lynch is not signed and then tries to force his way out, you might have a decent comparison.

[bobblehead]

Reading the stuff Aaron Rodgers is putting out there RE: a possible acquisition of Bills RB, Marshawn Lynch:

Makes me want to unload my true feeling RE: the botched, yet very possible and affordable Randy Moss acqisition for our 2007 season.

It seems that if Aaron didn't learn alot from Brett Favre under his tutilege. Aaron learned that it is OK to speak your mind to the press Re: matters that are (according to certain members of PackerRats) the exclusive ordain of the teams GM to deal with.

I wonder if Aaron Rodgers will be advised to keep his feelings to himself RE: such matters concerning player movement and aquisitions and media questions in regards to these matters?

Will MM and / or TT be advising Aaron to make the Ole ' no comment response ' to such questions in the future? I'm thinking of the shit that sort of thing got Brett Favre into.

GO PACKERS!

In your mind I'm sure the situations are identical.

[Lurker64]

We knew a lot of that stuff. Nothing here shocks me.

The thing that's nice to read is that Brandt seems to think Brett was furious that they didn't acquire the players Brett wanted, so he was furious. With that, to me, it further shows that Ted made the right decision. Brett's attitude was becoming toxic.

It's certainly not a good idea to let players have significant input on a GM's decisions. Whether that player is the quarterback or the longsnapper, or whatever. Just like a GM shouldn't advise a QB on passing mechanics because the GM is not an expert, the QB shouldn't advise the GM on personnel decisions because the QB is not an expert.

The extent of player input on potential personnel decisions should be if the GM or coach feels the need to ask a player "would you be okay with bringing in [whoever]?", in cases where the answer is not obviously yes, since locker room harmony is one of the things a GM has to juggle. But players are a only resource for the GM when it comes to making personnel decisions ("you played with this guy at [place], anything you want me to know about him?"), they shouldn't actually have any input on the final decision.

[mngolf19]

So.... he's clearly going to be a viking again?

no...he's going to the highest bidder.

That could still end up the Vikes. Wilf was pissed when McCombs traded him just before the sale of the team. They had a verbal agreement he wouldn't. So MN would welcome him back.

[Fritz]

We knew a lot of that stuff. Nothing here shocks me.

The thing that's nice to read is that Brandt seems to think Brett was furious that they didn't acquire the players Brett wanted, so he was furious. With that, to me, it further shows that Ted made the right decision. Brett's attitude was becoming toxic.

It's certainly not a good idea to let players have significant input on a GM's decisions. Whether that player is the quarterback or the longsnapper, or whatever. Just like a GM shouldn't advise a QB on passing mechanics because the GM is not an expert, the QB shouldn't advise the GM on personnel decisions because the QB is not an expert.

The extent of player input on potential personnel decisions should be if the GM or coach feels the need to ask a player "would you be okay with bringing in [whoever]?", in cases where the answer is not obviously yes, since locker room harmony is one of the things a GM has to juggle. But players are a only resource for the GM when it comes to making personnel decisions ("you played with this guy at [place], anything you want me to know about him?"), they shouldn't actually have any input on the final decision.

Here's where I have an issue - not with this post or with Lurk, but with the paradoxical nature of fan expectations. While I agree with Lurker in terms of the boldfaced type, you also hear lots of fans and media yapping that a guy's not a real superstar until he wins a SB. Or that if he's the team's MVP/best player part of his "leadership" role is to pressure the front office to bring in the right players.

It was the big complaint in Detroit about Barry Sanders: he wasn't a true "superstar" because he didn't lead the team. How did he fail to lead? He never went into the GM's office to tell them they needed to go out and get pieces X and Y to get the team to the SB.

I fervently disagree with that thinking. I don't think that if a player is a superstar he has any obligation to be a team leader, especially when that's supposed to include going to the GM with your suggestions and bitches.

So to the extent that there might be pressure on "superstars" to prove their ultimate worth by winning what is a team title (thus feeling responsible for a GM's moves), I can be sympathetic to Favre.

[Cheesehead Craig]

It's good to see the myth of TT going to bed thinking he had a deal only to lose the player over a draft pick get debunked.

Nothing was botched on this deal, the Packers actually tried to lock him in for a longer term deal.

[Pugger]

Just as I suspected, Favre became unhappy in GB after Sherman left. Sherman treated him like royalty. I laugh when folks suggest Favre left GB because he wanted to 'win now' when you consider the team TT assembled played in the conference championship game in Jan. 2008. You could have knocked me over with a feather when #4 "retired" that March. Why would a player want to leave a team just weeks after playing for the Super Bowl? After reading Brandt's article it is clear to me that indeed Favre was unhappy because he no longer had the ear of the GM and wanted to go to a team like the Vikes that would cater to his every whim.

[MJZiggy]

Just as I suspected, Favre became unhappy in GB after Sherman left. Sherman treated him like royalty. I laugh when folks suggest Favre left GB because he wanted to 'win now' when you consider the team TT assembled played in the conference championship game in Jan. 2008. You could have knocked me over with a feather when #4 "retired" that March. Why would a player want to leave a team just weeks after playing for the Super Bowl? After reading Brandt's article it is clear to me that indeed Favre was unhappy because he no longer had the ear of the GM and wanted to go to a team like the Vikes that would cater to his every whim.

And cater they do...

[MichiganPackerFan]

I like Brandt's writing more each time I read one of his articles. He provides a behind the scenes look at the administrative operations of a football team. Are there any writers that break down the X's & O's in a manner that would help me better understand the plays ON the field?

My biggest complaint about Sherman (the GM) was that he paid big dollars for players with little to no upside, so the team never had a chance to improve or remain competitive. TT contrarily has been responsible for keeping a competitive team on the field by skillfully assessing the salary cap (when in place) and the potential for team growth. I hope the fruits of the labor arrive soon!