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View Full Version : The Call Of The Hall - Brett Not A Shoo-In?????



Scott Campbell
08-04-2006, 01:54 PM
Get a load of what this knucklehead wrote:

The Call of the Hall
Evaluating the next wave of Canton possibilities

"Your assignment," my editor told me, "is to list the guys who will be Hall of Fame shoo-ins for this era, and which picks you agree with and which you don't."

Uh-huh.

Shoo-ins? How could I tell him that there are no such things? O.K., Jerry Rice, I'll give you that. And Emmitt Smith. And Deion. There, those are three right there, and yes, I'll agree with all three choices, but the rest of them...?

Is Brett Favre a shoo-in? How about if he throws another 29 interceptions this season? And the whispers start -- maybe he never was that good to begin with. You think this is impossible? You don't know how quickly a great old star can fall from grace.

Understand that it's a pretty special thing to be enshrined on the first ballot. You'd think that Bill Walsh would have been a shoo-in, right? He was passed over when he was first eligible. So was Howie Long. Lee Roy Selmon, one of the most inspirational defensive linemen who ever lived, failed to get out of the preliminary round of voting and reach the final 15 for five straight years. Jimmy Johnson, the 49ers' great cornerback -- I mean, JJ and Deion Sanders were the two best I've ever seen -- died in the prelims for 12 years. Finally he let the world know that he didn't want to be nominated anymore. Then he made it.

The things that happen in that selection meeting are stunning. I've come out feeling weak in the knees, and the first words on my lips were, "How could you ... ?" I don't want to show the white feather,

So here are my potential first-round ballot selections of the era and how I view them, and by era I mean a period of the last 13 years, which stretches from today's young superstars on the rise to the recently retired.

Deion should enter on the first ballot, and I agree with that. No corner in history had his catch-up speed. But that would use up my entire quota of DBs. In my 13-year era only one has made it in the first season he was eligible: Ronnie Lott.

But then what about Rod Woodson (class of 2009), who has already been selected to the NFL's alltime team? I would vote for him, although I rank him third behind Deion and still another corner, the Redskins' heroic little Darrell Green. He'll come up with the class of 2008. The major competition will be Cris Carter and Tony Boselli. Yes, I'm 100% in Darrell's corner.

There have been 20 people who got in the first time they were eligible, true first-ballot choices, in this 13-year period, and seven were QBs. The Selection Committee is very friendly toward QBs. I have singled out five potential first balloteers: Favre, Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Ben Roethlisberger and Carson Palmer.

I'll vote for Favre, based on what he used to be, because I think his game has tanked big-time in the last few years, and I don't know if it'll ever be back. Brady is the ultimate warrior, and he's a double yes for first ballot and my vote. Manning needs some wins when the stakes are highest, otherwise his records and his high rankings, which he should keep putting up for a long time, will work against him. First ballot? He's on the bubble, but I'll vote for him. There are quite a few Hall of Fame QBs who never won a championship.

Palmer and Big Ben are still babies, of course. But I like Palmer's chances better. He seems to carry the team, whereas Roethlisberger, as effective as he is, is more a product of the system.

Four runners have made it right away in the last 13 years. I've got no argument with Emmitt or Curtis Martin, a high-yardage guy and the ultimate team player. Plus, what is very important in the minds of the selectors, a fine person. But a first-ballot choice? Depends on the other runners who come up, especially Edgerrin James and Marshall Faulk.

But here comes a guy who is only 27 years old, and I will take great pleasure in voting for his enshrinement the first time he's up -- LaDainian Tomlinson. He does it all: catches a lot of passes, makes people miss. I believe he'll walk in.

Only one wideout has made it on the first ballot in the last 23 years: Steve Largent in 1995. The trouble is that the numbers are getting so inflated that people cancel each other out. But I believe three heads will rise above the crowd, and I'll vote for each of them -- Rice; Cris Carter, who ranks No. 2 to Jerry on the alltime pass-receiving list; and Marvin Harrison, who is the only receiver in history to average better than 90 catches a season. Shannon Sharpe has the most tight end receptions ever, but no TE has made it in this current 13-year era.

We are through with the glamour positions, and now it becomes a matter of perceptions, mine against those of the other selectors. The grunt position is my special field of interest, but my track record here is not good. For instance, I feel that few players are more deserving than the Jets' old DE-DT Joe Klecko, and he has yet to get out of the prelims.

O-line. Bruce Matthews is the front-runner of the class of '07, which has no other really strong candidates, and I feel will become a haven for former also-rans. Yes, I think Matthews will squeak through on the first ballot, on the basis of a career that went back to the days of earmuffs and round footballs, but if it comes down to, say, Matthews against Bob Kuechenberg, my vote goes to Kooch.

Larry Allen is my choice as offensive lineman of this era, although it pains me to see him now, barely functional on two bad legs, his balance just about shot, but still making Pro Bowls. Yeah, I think the selectors will be kind to Allen and give him a quick entry, and I won't disagree.

Still about 10 years in the future is Walter Jones. Yep, a smooth-as-silk pass blocker, but I think he'll take a backseat to more flashy candidates for a year or two. Boselli will come up in '08. Six functional years made up his career. Not enough.

D-line. Bruce Smith, already retired. Bryant Young and Michael Strahan, each 34 and good for about three or four more productive seasons -- maybe. Richard Seymour, still a baby. Smith, yes. First ballot all the way. They say his pass rush far outweighed his ability against the run, and usually I'm very sensitive about that, but I have to disagree here. He always hustled, he didn't take plays off, he made a lot of backside tackles.

Strahan, yes, a complete player, but he might be coming up against Young, an emotional favorite after his great comeback, and that's big with selectors. So Michael might have to wait a year. Seymour? Solid, productive, but must make more big plays to catch voters' eyes. I see him waiting a while.

And now we come to a pair who might sneak in on the first ballot: Warren Sapp, through a finely developed repartee; and John Randle, possessor of that great interior pass rush. I will be a no vote on each. When Sapp was a young tackle, I thought he might be one of the alltime greats. But he chose to conserve his energy, turn it on and turn it off, do just enough to get by.

Randle? First-and-10, the enemy gains 10 yards because Randle has taken himself so far out of position that he's fouled up the guy playing next to him. Next play he gets a sack for minus-five. People are saying what a great game he's having. But by my calculations he's still five yards in the hole. Ah well, not many agree with this kind of thinking. So be it.

Ray Lewis, yes. Only two LBs have been first-ballot choices in the era, and they were both colossuses, uh, colossi: Lawrence Taylor and Mike Singletary. Lewis, not the chest-beater of late but the young firebrand who was like a laser to the ball, is not quite in their class, but almost. He belongs. Derrick Brooks and Junior Seau? Maybe someday, but not on the first ballot. Brian Urlacher, no. Not until he learns to play short-yardage defense.

Adam Vinatieri, if he puts up a few more dramatic kicks, will be a great subject for debate among the selectors, and I feel this will drag through three or four years.

Finally, nonplayers. Bill Belichick definitely belongs, but I have a feeling a lot of selectors will play get-even by stiffing him on the first ballot, just as they did to Bill Parcells. Dick Vermeil, though, has made nothing but friends throughout his career, and he'll be rewarded right away. Sure, I'll vote for Dick. He sent me a case of that great cabernet he makes in Calistoga. You bet I'll vote for him.

Issue date: SI Commemorative July 2006

Scott Campbell
08-04-2006, 01:58 PM
"Shoo-ins? How could I tell him that there are no such things? O.K., Jerry Rice, I'll give you that. And Emmitt Smith. And Deion. There, those are three right there, and yes, I'll agree with all three choices, but the rest of them...?

Is Brett Favre a shoo-in? How about if he throws another 29 interceptions this season? And the whispers start -- maybe he never was that good to begin with. You think this is impossible? You don't know how quickly a great old star can fall from grace."


In one breath Dr. Z concedes that Emmitt, Deion and Jerry will be first ballot hall of famers. In the next breath he tells us that Brett might not make it because his play has faded as got older.

Uhhhhhh........didn't Emmit, Deion and Jerry also succumb to the same age related drop off in play????

woodbuck27
08-04-2006, 01:59 PM
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah . . .

NOT even going to read it , Scott ![/b]

RIPackerFan
08-04-2006, 02:02 PM
Dr. Z has consistently been on the "hater" side of Brett. However, in the article, he does state that he would vote from him on the first ballot. To me this says a lot....If even the people who did not like Brett are going to vote him in, then he really is a shoo-in.

Also, the title was just put in to get people to read the article. Favre is still one of the most famous/infamous personalities in the game. By putting his name in the title, with an inflammatory statement, he gets more readers.

You can tell he just did it to get readers, when in the article, he states that we would vote him in (going against his title).

woodbuck27
08-04-2006, 02:10 PM
Oh No !!

Dr. Z wrote the article. Now I've got to read it as I like his style of writing. He's interesting alot of the time.

That article will only do one thing for Brett Favre I hope.

Piss him off - pump him up !!

GO BRETT !!!!

MJZiggy
08-04-2006, 02:15 PM
Will he still give a double yes to Brady should his performance slack off in the future? Say perhaps, his offense disintegrates around him? Or will he have to vote him in on past performance...?

jack's smirking revenge
08-04-2006, 02:16 PM
I hope all of this negative press both pisses him off AND pumps him up!

We need the angry, chip-on-his-shoulder Brett back... I feel like he plays like he's got nothing left to prove (which is somewhat true).

tyler

red
08-04-2006, 02:30 PM
what a joke, emmit is a shoo-in? IMO emmit was all a product of a very very good o-line. c-hunt could run for 200 yards a game and 5.0 yards per carry with the size of the holes those cowboy lines made

good point scott on him bashing favre for having down years at the end of his carre, then naming 3 guys that all sucked at the end of theirs

brett is a first ballot HOFer, why?

only 3 time mvp in NFL history and the iron man of the NFL

woodbuck27
08-04-2006, 02:45 PM
Hey Packer fans .

Be prepared for how sick it will get in the press, as Brett hones in on Dan Marino's ALL Time TD pass's Record.

Dam it!

I hope that T2 gives him the help he really needs - to get that done.

Fosco33
08-04-2006, 02:47 PM
Get a load of what this knucklehead wrote:

I'll vote for Favre, based on what he used to be....

I'm okay w/ Dr. Z voting for Brett - and he's just stating his opinion or general thoughts on Brett's late career potential.

And I normally get a laugh from his articles... but this one had me laughing - at him... :lol:

HarveyWallbangers
08-04-2006, 02:53 PM
Dr. Z has consistently been on the "hater" side of Brett. However, in the article, he does state that he would vote from him on the first ballot. To me this says a lot....If even the people who did not like Brett are going to vote him in, then he really is a shoo-in.

Also, the title was just put in to get people to read the article. Favre is still one of the most famous/infamous personalities in the game. By putting his name in the title, with an inflammatory statement, he gets more readers.

You can tell he just did it to get readers, when in the article, he states that we would vote him in (going against his title).

I enjoy Dr. Z a lot of the tme, and I TRY to stay away from saying things like this, but I will say that I think Dr. Z's writes more articles about Brett Favre than any other player... and a majority of his articles are negative. Just read his archive. I don't know what it is. I wish I knew what his background is. Many of his player evaluations are good though. He'll often pick out non-big names for his All-Pro team--instead of the same names that others regurgitate.

Fosco33
08-04-2006, 02:56 PM
Dr. Z has consistently been on the "hater" side of Brett. However, in the article, he does state that he would vote from him on the first ballot. To me this says a lot....If even the people who did not like Brett are going to vote him in, then he really is a shoo-in.

Also, the title was just put in to get people to read the article. Favre is still one of the most famous/infamous personalities in the game. By putting his name in the title, with an inflammatory statement, he gets more readers.

You can tell he just did it to get readers, when in the article, he states that we would vote him in (going against his title).

I enjoy Dr. Z a lot of the tme, and I TRY to stay away from saying things like this, but I will say that I think Dr. Z's writes more articles about Brett Favre than any other player... and a majority of his articles are negative. Just read his archive. I don't know what it is. I wish I knew what his background is. Many of his player evaluations are good though. He'll often pick out non-big names for his All-Pro team--instead of the same names that others regurgitate.

BIOGRAPHY

Paul Zimmerman, a senior writer at Sports Illustrated since 1979, videotapes and charts as many as eight NFL games a week from his home. It's safe to say that Dr. Z has watched more NFL games than any other person on the planet. In addition to his regular columns for SI, he contributes Insider, Power Rankings and Mailbag columns to SI.com.

Dr. Z is the author of seven books on the NFL, including The Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football. His inside analysis and opinions are rooted in more than 50 years of playing and watching football.

As a 15-year-old, Zimmerman sparred with Ernest Hemingway in a Manhattan gym. He sustained four broken noses as an offensive lineman in high school (Horace Mann High in the Bronx, N.Y.), at two colleges (Stanford and Columbia) and for his Army team (the Western Area Command Rhinos, in Germany). He also played semi-professionally in New Jersey for the Paterson Pioneers and the Morristown Colonials.

Before joining SI, Zimmerman worked for the New York Journal-American and the New York World-Telegram & Sun, and spent 13 years at the New York Post, where he covered pro football and three Olympic Games. He was one of the few journalists to get close to the Israeli compound during the 1972 hostage-taking in Munich; he bucked two lines of security guards and took a rifle butt to the head.

Zimmerman and his wife, to whom he often refers in his columns on CNNSI.com, live in Mountain Lakes, N.J.

Here's a google result that may make sense:

Dylan Tomlinson: Dr. Z probably just wants to balance SI since it's well known how much SI's Peter King worships Favre. I have a lot of respect for Zimmerman, but I haven't seen anything he's written on Favre recently. Everybody is entitled to their opinion.

woodbuck27
08-04-2006, 03:02 PM
Yea!

Dr.Z takes interesting slants on people from sports and sports topics and he certainly puts real time into knowing football, as he watch's an amazing number of games (or has in his past). He's no young sprout either that gives him credibility also.

I have to read his article a few times - try to get his real take. He challenges you the reader.

Badgepack
08-04-2006, 03:05 PM
If Warren Moon can get in the Hall of Fame, I feel pretty secure that Favre will also get in.

RashanGary
08-04-2006, 04:04 PM
I'm usually pretty tolerant of writers. I know different views usually have some backing but htis is a joke. ONly a few QB's every 10 years win teh SB and none have ever had Favres #'s and won the superbowl. Elway was close. Brett is a shoo in. Emmit, Brett Rice are all in teh same boat. That is juat silly to put record breaking RB and WR but leave out the QB.

jack's smirking revenge
08-04-2006, 04:09 PM
Is there really any doubt that Favre will be enshrined in the HoF? Even if he breaks both TD and INT records, or doesn't make the TD record and sticks around to do it next year, he'll get in. He's got to simply based on his "Ironman Stat" (started 200+ games...I don't remember the exact amount).

He is the blessing and the curse of the Packers. He has been the face of one of the most effective teams of the last decade. He'll make it. Z's just talking trash to get readers.

tyler

Fosco33
08-04-2006, 05:19 PM
No one in their sane mind would say Brett isn't a HOFer - the question was - is Brett a first ballot HOFer? A distinction in and of itself (like the cream of the crop).

Dr. Z says he would vote for Brett on his first ballot.

'Nuf said....

MadtownPacker
08-04-2006, 07:04 PM
Man that was a piece of garbage article. Couldn't even finish it. It would be an insult to my ass to print it then use it for TP.

This guy is why I don't ever bother going to SI.com. He is always talking waste like this. Is he the same Dr. Z that comes out on the car commercials?

BooHoo
08-04-2006, 07:09 PM
Man that was a piece of garbage article. Couldn't even finish it. It would be an insult to my ass to print it then use it for TP.

This guy is why I don't ever bother going to SI.com. He is always talking waste like this. Is he the same Dr. Z that comes out on the car commercials?

Yep, garbage article.

But I do think Brett will make the HOF on the 1st ballot.

LEWCWA
08-04-2006, 07:30 PM
I just don't understand why he says his game has tanked the last couple years.....if 30 tds and 4000 yards is tanking, what the hell do you call any bears qb!

PaCkFan_n_MD
08-04-2006, 08:01 PM
The only debate that should inculde brett is whether hes the best Qb to ever play, not whether hes even good enough for the hall. This guy is a @@@@en retard. :evil:

KYPack
08-05-2006, 10:09 AM
Man that was a piece of garbage article. Couldn't even finish it. It would be an insult to my ass to print it then use it for TP.

This guy is why I don't ever bother going to SI.com. He is always talking waste like this. Is he the same Dr. Z that comes out on the car commercials?

No. The guy on the Chrysler commercials is Chrysler Chairman Dieter Zetsche playing a role of an annoying asshole (it is a total flop, BTW).

Dr Z went to Columbia and played football with my old boss. His "Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football" is easily one of the best books ever written on the subject. That said, he is proof positive that you can be very knowlegeable about a subject and still form absolutely stupid opinions about a topic.

Brett Favre is why they have a HOF. He's a sure fire HOFer. Whether or not they vote him in on the 1st ballot should be a topic for discussion in 2012 or 2013. I'll wait until then to worry about it.

Fosco33
08-05-2006, 11:21 AM
Man that was a piece of garbage article. Couldn't even finish it. It would be an insult to my ass to print it then use it for TP.

This guy is why I don't ever bother going to SI.com. He is always talking waste like this. Is he the same Dr. Z that comes out on the car commercials?

No. The guy on the Chrysler commercials is Chrysler Chairman Dieter Zetsche playing a role of an annoying asshole (it is a total flop, BTW).

Dr Z went to Columbia and played football with my old boss. His "Thinking Man's Guide to Pro Football" is easily one of the best books ever written on the subject. That said, he is proof positive that you can be very knowlegeable about a subject and still form absolutely stupid opinions about a topic.

Brett Favre is why they have a HOF. He's a sure fire HOFer. Whether or not they vote him in on the 1st ballot should be a topic for discussion in 2012 or 2013. I'll wait until then to worry about it.

Good to see you, KY.

I agree with your statement 100%. Dr Z's article had an odd beginning which led to most Packer fans skipping/skimming through the rest of the text. But Z does say he'd vote for Brett on the 1st ballot - I'll take that with some criticism of last year (poor running game, lots of injuries, lots of att/int, close losses, new/inexperienced team). He'll solidify his career this year - and take the Pack back to the playoffs w/ a wild card game.

Then, in 2012/13 he'll be there no question. :cool:

MadtownPacker
08-05-2006, 01:29 PM
Haha, I know he isnt the same Dr. Z. I was just trying pointing out that they are both arrogant bastards.


He'll solidify his career this year - and take the Pack back to the playoffs w/ a wild card game.

He done solidified it long ago!! Thats the part of the article Im bashing!

I was looking up the season records for Elway (who got in on the first ballot) and he had a losing season in 1990 (5-11) so why did he get in so fast?

Fosco33
08-05-2006, 01:49 PM
Haha, I know he isnt the same Dr. Z. I was just trying pointing out that they are both arrogant bastards.


He'll solidify his career this year - and take the Pack back to the playoffs w/ a wild card game.

He done solidified it long ago!! Thats the part of the article Im bashing!

I was looking up the season records for Elway (who got in on the first ballot) and he had a losing season in 1990 (5-11) so why did he get in so fast?

Yeah - I meant 'finalize' and end it this year. I'd say Brett is better than Elway but Elway won two Superbowls in a row and ended on a high note (with the most wins as a QB). Often people will only remember the beginning and end of a player's career - despite a magnificent 14 years in between...

I'll say Brett starts all the games and ends with an untouchable consecutive start streak. He'll beat Marino's records (except yards and career wins) and be considered one of the top 3 all-time.

MadtownPacker
08-05-2006, 02:38 PM
Yeah - I meant 'finalize' and end it this year. I'd say Brett is better than Elway but Elway won two Superbowls in a row and ended on a high note (with the most wins as a QB). Often people will only remember the beginning and end of a player's career - despite a magnificent 14 years in between...

I'll say Brett starts all the games and ends with an untouchable consecutive start streak. He'll beat Marino's records (except yards and career wins) and be considered one of the top 3 all-time.
He plays another 2 decent-good seasons and he will have all the QB records. Check it out on Packers.com (http://www.packers.com/history/record_book/favre_watch/)

He is already top3 according to those stats.

Fosco33
08-05-2006, 03:29 PM
Yeah - I meant 'finalize' and end it this year. I'd say Brett is better than Elway but Elway won two Superbowls in a row and ended on a high note (with the most wins as a QB). Often people will only remember the beginning and end of a player's career - despite a magnificent 14 years in between...

I'll say Brett starts all the games and ends with an untouchable consecutive start streak. He'll beat Marino's records (except yards and career wins) and be considered one of the top 3 all-time.
He plays another 2 decent-good seasons and he will have all the QB records. Check it out on Packers.com (http://www.packers.com/history/record_book/favre_watch/)

He is already top3 according to those stats.

Who knows? If he goes to the playoffs, it may be good enough for one more year. I don't think he cares for just playing for records (except the streak). If the Pack has an average year, I could see him retiring. If by some small chance, the Pack wins the SB - he'll definitely call it over.