Who Makes the Wall?

[Smidgeon]

Obviously, someday Favre's number will be retired by the GB organization and his name will be added to one of the hardest stadium walls for a player to get his name on (if you take into the retired numbers versus championships).

While the team isn't quite as strict for the Packers Hall of Fame (which makes sense), who on the current team has the best shot of making the Packers' HOF? How about one day getting their number retired? Consider that only the all time greats get their name retired.

[Guiness]

I think DD deserves it up and down.

Beyond that, it's hard to say who on this team has done enough for the Packers HOF. You have to give consideration to Woodson. Maybe Clifton? He's been at LT for a long time. What about Harris? Past players, Green?

No one else has really done enough. I'd say four players are on the short list, and will be there if they continue on the road they're on - Collins, Rodgers, Mathews and Finley. Jennings, but he hasn't quite dominated, IMO.

[Joemailman]

A bunch of guys will make the Packers HOF: Barnett, Clifton, Collins, Driver, Harris, Jenkins, Matthews, Rodgers, Tauscher, Woodson.

Too early to tell for some of the younger guys like Finley and Sitton.

Getting your number retired is very tough. Driver has an outside chance. Rodgers if he has a long career.

[MadScientist]

If Woodson keeps playing at his current level for a couple of more years, he should make the Packer HOF. If Crosby's accuracy problems are solved and he kicks for 8-10 more years with the Packers, he'll make it.

It will take a ring or two plus long careers to get numbers retired. Way too early to speculate on that (perhaps after February :D )

[HarveyWallbangers]

Packers Hall of Fame = relatively easy
Number in the stadium = difficult (only members of the Pro Football Hall of Fame)
Number Retired = rare

Nobody on the current roster will have their number retired--unless we win a championship and somebody has an iconic, Hall of Fame career. That has been limited to the offensive leader and defensive leader of the chamionship eras.

Charles Woodson has a good shot at making the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Driver may have an outside shot, but I see only Chuck getting his number inside the stadium.

Packers Hall of Famers on the current team, as of now:

Woodson, Driver, Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Al Harris, Nick Collins, perhaps Nick Barnett, perhaps Cullen Jenkins. You make a couple of Pro Bowls and you are pretty much guaranteed of making the Packers Hall of Fame.

We have some young guys that it's too early to tell -- Rodgers, Jennings, Matthews, Finley, Sitton, Raji, etc.

[Joemailman]

I agree with what Harvey said. Actually, I'm not not thinking Woodson makes it on the wall since he will have spent only about half his career in Green Bay. I know that didn't stop Reggie, but his impact was greater.

Some recent Packers who will make the Packer HOF eventually:

Aaron Kampman
KGB
Ahman Green
William Henderson

[red]

woodson and driver are the only sure bets for the packer HOF

and i agreed woodson will probably end up in the pro football HOF, and might get his name up on the wall

[Fritz]

The construction guys make the wall.

[Joemailman]

woodson and driver are the only sure bets for the packer HOF

and i agreed woodson will probably end up in the pro football HOF, and might get his name up on the wall

It's not that tough to make it to the Packers HOF. In recent years, Majik and Chmura have made it. Tauscher and Clifton are locks based on play and longevity. Jennings will likely pass Robert Brooks in receiving yards this year. He's in. Rodgers will be #4 in passing yards and TD passes by the end of the season. He's in.

[mraynrand]

I was originally thinking that you don't retire Favre's number. I now bet they either will retire it, or won't hand it out for years after Favre makes the HOF. (I also think we hashed through this issue before).

Still, So long as Favre's with the Vikings, I say give #4 to your worst rookie FA signing in the off season and make sure you have the little frisbee catching dog at halftime wear a little #4 sweater. And have the dog be really sucky at catching the frisbee.

[Guiness]

Does Hendo make the Packers HOF? I'd like to see it, he was a rock and model football citizen for years, but I don't know how you quantify his contribution.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Every fan favorite tends to make the PHOF

[sharpe1027]

Does Hendo make the Packers HOF? I'd like to see it, he was a rock and model football citizen for years, but I don't know how you quantify his contribution.

He's in my book.

[RashanGary]

If we win a SB soon, this could all change.

[Smidgeon]

If we win a SB soon, this could all change.

That begs the question: how many SBs must the team win before people start considering the various members for the hall?

[The Leaper]

There will be several Packers from the current team who are in the Packer HOF...I think it will become more difficult to get into the Packer HOF now than it was in the 70s and 80s when our teams were horribly mediocre, but we still have several players with 8+ seasons of high level service. If you have that and a few awards/honors, it should be good enough.

Packer HOF
Current Locks: Driver, Clifton, Tauscher, Harris
Probable Locks (with 1-2 more years of great play): Collins, Woodson
Borderline: Barnett, Pickett, Jenkins...Barnett probably will make the cut, not as certain on the others.
Too Early To Tell (but have a strong chance): Rodgers, Jennings, Matthews, Finley, Raji, Crosby

Legend Wall
Favre will eventually be placed there...but I'm guessing the organization won't rush to do it. It will happen after his induction to Canton...and how long after will depend a lot on Favre not being a jackass between now and then. Personally, I'd make him sweat a little.

[The Leaper]

Does Hendo make the Packers HOF? I'd like to see it, he was a rock and model football citizen for years, but I don't know how you quantify his contribution.

No doubt that Henderson makes it. The guy was one of the best blockers at his position for almost a decade. Henderson did more for the franchise than Gilbert Brown did...and Gilbert is in the HOF.

Recent departures that are locks for the Packer HOF:
Ahman Green
William Henderson
Brett Favre
Darren Sharper (eventually)
Ryan Longwell (eventually)

Marco Rivera probably will also make it IMO...but I don't consider him a lock.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Marco will make it easily.

[HowardRoark]

Number Retired = rare

Very rare indeed:

No. 14 of wide receiver Don Hutson (1951)
No. 3 of fullback Tony Canadeo (1952)
No. 15 of quarterback Bart Starr (1973)
No. 66 of linebacker Ray Nitschke (1983)
No. 92 of defensive end Reggie White (2005).

[Tarlam!]

The construction guys make the wall.

BOMNF!!

At least once a day, you crack me up!!

[superfan]

I was originally thinking that you don't retire Favre's number. I now bet they either will retire it, or won't hand it out for years after Favre makes the HOF. (I also think we hashed through this issue before).

Still, So long as Favre's with the Vikings, I say give #4 to your worst rookie FA signing in the off season and make sure you have the little frisbee catching dog at halftime wear a little #4 sweater. And have the dog be really sucky at catching the frisbee.

They could just retire it now and be done with it. That's been the most visible number and jersey pairing in the NFL over the last decade plus. Who would want to wear a GB #4? There's no #4 on the roster now, and I would be amazed if that number was assigned any time over the next 5-10 years, if not longer. It's already retired for all intensive purposes.

They should schedule a retirement ceremony right now for immediately following the MN@GB game this season. Can you imagine ol' #4 participating in a number retirement ceremony immediately following a Vikings loss?

[swede]

I was originally thinking that you don't retire Favre's number. I now bet they either will retire it, or won't hand it out for years after Favre makes the HOF. (I also think we hashed through this issue before).

Still, So long as Favre's with the Vikings, I say give #4 to your worst rookie FA signing in the off season and make sure you have the little frisbee catching dog at halftime wear a little #4 sweater. And have the dog be really sucky at catching the frisbee.

They could just retire it now and be done with it. That's been the most visible number and jersey pairing in the NFL over the last decade plus. Who would want to wear a GB #4? There's no #4 on the roster now, and I would be amazed if that number was assigned any time over the next 5-10 years, if not longer. It's already retired for all intensive purposes.

They should schedule a retirement ceremony right now for immediately following the MN@GB game this season. Can you imagine ol' #4 participating in a number retirement ceremony immediately following a Vikings loss? I see a loophole: catching a frisbee is not an intensive purpose.

[Packman_26]

Here is a list of all the current inductees in the Packers Hall of Fame. There are 140 current members. A lot of names I'm not familiar with and to be honest I'm surprised there aren't more mid 90's names on it. Maybe they will start to add more of those guys at this point.

Source: http://www.packershalloffame.org/
Donny Anderson
Herb Adderley
Jerry Atkinson
John Anderson
Charley Brock
Dr. E.S. (Gene) Brusky
Edgar Bennett
Edmund (Zeke) Bratkowski
Gilbert Brown
Hank Bruder
Howard (Cub) Buck
James Lou Brock
John Brockington
John Phillip (Phil) Bengtson
Ken Bowman
LeRoy Butler
Nate Barrager
Robert Brooks
Vernon Biever
William L. Brault
Willie Buchanon
Wilner Burke
Al Carmichael
Dan Currie
Don Chandler
Fred Carr
Fred Cone
George Whitney Calhoun
Gerald (Jerry) Clifford
Irv Comp
John “Red” Cochran
Larry Craig
Lee Roy Caffey
Paul Coffman
Tony Canadeo
Art Daley
Bernard (Boob) Darling
Bobby Dillon
Boyd Dowler
Carroll Dale
Clifford Lynn Dickey
Joseph (Red) Dunn
Lavern (Lavvie) Dilweg
Mike Douglass
Willie Davis
Gerry Ellis
Ken Ellis
Lon Evans
Louis Francis (Jug) Earp
Paul (Tiny) Engebretsen
Antonio Freeman
Bill Forester
Bob Forte
Howie Ferguson
Ted Fritsch
Charles (Buckets) Goldenberg
Forrest Gregg
Gale Gillingham
Hank Gremminger
Johnnie Gray
Milt Gantenbein
Arnie Herber
Bill Howton
Clark Hinkle
Don Hutson
Joel David (Hawg) Hanner
Johnny Holland
Paul Hornung
Robert (Cal) Hubbard
Robert “Bob” Harlan
Cecil Isbell
Jim Irwin
Bob Jeter
Carl (Bud) Jorgensen
Chester (Swede) Johnston
Ed Jankowski
Ezra Johnson
Harry Jacunski
Henry Jordan
Lee Joannes
Dr. William Webber Kelly
Gary Knafelc
Jerry Kramer
Ron Kostelnik
Ron Kramer
Dorsey Levens
Earl (Curly) Lambeau
Fred Leicht
James Lofton
Joe Laws
Russ Letlow
Verne Lewellen
Vincent T. Lombardi
August (Iron Mike) Michalske
Bob Mann
Bobby Monnett
Carl Mulleneaux
Charles Mathys
Czeslaw (Chester) Marcol
Don Majkowski
John (Johnny Blood) McNally
John Martinkovic
Larry McCarren
Mark Murphy
Tom Miller
William Max McGee
Ray Nitschke
Dominic Olejniczak
Elijah Pitts
Robert Parins
Buford (Baby) Ray
Dave Robinson
Jim Ringo
Lee Remmel
Tobin Rote
Al Schneider
Bart Starr
Bob Skoronski
Earl (Bud) Svendsen
George Svendsen
Jan Stenerud
Ray Scott
Sterling Sharpe
Al Treml
Andrew B. Turnbull
Deral Teteak
Fred (Fuzzy) Thurston
Fred N. Trowbridge Sr.
Jim Taylor
Pete Tinsley
Andy Uram
Jack Vainisi
Dick Wildung
Frank Winters
Howard (Whitey) Woodin
Jesse Whittenton
Reggie White
Ron Wolf
Travis Williams
Willie Wood

[pbmax]

Fred N. Trowbridge Sr. was a complete media creation. I can't believe they sullied the PHOF with his plaque! *
















* completyly unfamiliar with Mr. Trowbridge's work

[Gunakor]

Packers Hall of Fame = relatively easy
Number in the stadium = difficult (only members of the Pro Football Hall of Fame)
Number Retired = rare

Nobody on the current roster will have their number retired--unless we win a championship and somebody has an iconic, Hall of Fame career. That has been limited to the offensive leader and defensive leader of the chamionship eras.

Charles Woodson has a good shot at making the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Driver may have an outside shot, but I see only Chuck getting his number inside the stadium.

Packers Hall of Famers on the current team, as of now:

Woodson, Driver, Chad Clifton, Mark Tauscher, Al Harris, Nick Collins, perhaps Nick Barnett, perhaps Cullen Jenkins. You make a couple of Pro Bowls and you are pretty much guaranteed of making the Packers Hall of Fame.

We have some young guys that it's too early to tell -- Rodgers, Jennings, Matthews, Finley, Sitton, Raji, etc.

I think Driver has a shot at getting his number retired. He'll hold a couple all time franchise records as a WR when he retires. Championships are won by teams, so I don't think the lack of a SB ring will necessarily be held against him (should he not win one before he retires, which certainly isn't a given). IMO his individual contribution to the team and the franchise is enough. Unfortunately, I don't have a vote, but if I did I'd vote Driver worthy.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think Driver has a shot at getting his number retired. He'll hold a couple all time franchise records as a WR when he retires. Championships are won by teams, so I don't think the lack of a SB ring will necessarily be held against him (should he not win one before he retires, which certainly isn't a given). IMO his individual contribution to the team and the franchise is enough. Unfortunately, I don't have a vote, but if I did I'd vote Driver worthy.

I doubt it very much. Driver is iffy for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Only Pro Football Hall of Famers make the Ring of Honor inside the stadium, and group of players with retired numbers is even more exclusive. Receiving numbers have gone up, and I still consider Hutson, Lofton, and Sharpe as better receivers.

Think about it, we have all of those Hall of Famers and only Hutson, Canadeo, Starr, Nitschke, and White have their numbers retired. No Davis, Wood, Adderley, Gregg, Taylor, Hornung, etc. Like I said, I like the symmetry of one offensive leader and one defensive leader from each championship era team.

[Gunakor]

I think Driver has a shot at getting his number retired. He'll hold a couple all time franchise records as a WR when he retires. Championships are won by teams, so I don't think the lack of a SB ring will necessarily be held against him (should he not win one before he retires, which certainly isn't a given). IMO his individual contribution to the team and the franchise is enough. Unfortunately, I don't have a vote, but if I did I'd vote Driver worthy.

I doubt it very much. Driver is iffy for the Pro Football Hall of Fame. Only Pro Football Hall of Famers make the Ring of Honor inside the stadium, and group of players with retired numbers is even more exclusive. Receiving numbers have gone up, and I still consider Hutson, Lofton, and Sharpe as better receivers.

Think about it, we have all of those Hall of Famers and only Hutson, Canadeo, Starr, Nitschke, and White have their numbers retired. No Davis, Wood, Adderley, Gregg, Taylor, Hornung, etc. Like I said, I like the symmetry of one offensive leader and one defensive leader from each championship era team.

I agree with you that Sharpe was the better of the two. Sharpe would own all the records Driver has/will have if he hadn't been forced into early retirement due to injury. He's the only WR that could have rivaled Jerry Rice for best WR of his era. He'd have his ring too, having been the player wearing #84 in XXXI rather than Rison. Had he been able to play out his career and retire on his own terms, there's absolutely no question in my mind that there would never be another Green Bay Packer wearing #84 ever again.

As far as Driver is concerned, I only judge him against other Packers. At least as far as putting his name and number up in the ring is concerned. The NFL HOF judges him against all other WR's, regardless of team or era, but I don't think the Packers should do the same. Driver has accomplished as much or more as a WR than just about any other Packer in history. He's a fan favorite, and an important piece in the history of the franchise. He holds/will hold a number of franchise records. That's good enough for me, considering we're looking at a charter NFL team that's nearly 100 years old now. There's a lot of history to judge him against, and his entire body of work stacks up favorably to nearly all of it.

That's not to say he's the best - undoubtedly, Hutson holds that title and it's nearly impossible for anybody to take that title away from him. It's absolutely true the game has changed, seasons have been lengthened and passing numbers have gone up, so the numbers Driver has doesn't mean he's the better WR. But if that's where the bar is going to be set, at Don Hutson, we'll never see another WR have his number retired ever again. Not only won't the Packers see another WR like Hutson ever again, but neither will the NFL. Ever. That's a terribly high standard, almost unfair to anybody else.

Maybe his number isn't retired. As you say, that's an incredibly exclusive group. I feel he's worthy, given his overall body of work both as a player and as a person, but I can see the argument against it. Yet I see it as a great injustice if he doesn't even get his name in the ring. He's absolutely earned that much IMO. HOF or not, he's still one of the best WR's to have ever worn that jersey on Sundays. He deserves to be remembered as such.

[vince]

Gunk you make a very interesting argument, although I doubt it's compelling enough to get past the board and get his number retired, because it opens up a door that quickly becomes hard to close.

He's just a full notch below those guys in terms of the level of his on-the-field play relative to his contemporaries, although you could make an argument that Canadeo's great on-the-field play is below the lofty standards of the others too. You can also say that White's Packer play, while great was not as lengthy as the others.

Those guys whose numbers are retired have also distinguished themselves through their character every bit as much as their play, and Driver can easily put himself in their company in that category.

In any event, I agree that there ought to be an elite place in the annals of Packer history for Donald Driver. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced it should be having his number retired, but just the Packer Hall of Fame doesn't do Donald Driver's character, career-long performance, and overall contributions to this franchise justice.

[swede]

Gunk you make a very interesting argument, although I doubt it's compelling enough to get past the board and get his number retired, because it opens up a door that quickly becomes hard to close.

He's just a full notch below those guys in terms of the level of his on-the-field play relative to his contemporaries, although you could make an argument that Canadeo's great on-the-field play is below the lofty standards of the others too. You can also say that White's Packer play, while great was not as lengthy as the others.

Those guys whose numbers are retired have also distinguished themselves through their character every bit as much as their play, and Driver can easily put himself in their company in that category.

In any event, I agree that there ought to be an elite place in the annals of Packer history for Donald Driver. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced it should be having his number retired, but just the Packer Hall of Fame doesn't do Donald Driver's character, career-long performance, and overall contributions to this franchise justice.

I am still holding out hope that he plays another five years and crushes Irvin's numbers.

If Packer Fans can win the Chunky Soup contest every year they ought to be able to lobby the NFL HOF on behalf of DD when the time comes.

[mraynrand]

I was originally thinking that you don't retire Favre's number. I now bet they either will retire it, or won't hand it out for years after Favre makes the HOF. (I also think we hashed through this issue before).

Still, So long as Favre's with the Vikings, I say give #4 to your worst rookie FA signing in the off season and make sure you have the little frisbee catching dog at halftime wear a little #4 sweater. And have the dog be really sucky at catching the frisbee.

They could just retire it now and be done with it. That's been the most visible number and jersey pairing in the NFL over the last decade plus. Who would want to wear a GB #4? There's no #4 on the roster now, and I would be amazed if that number was assigned any time over the next 5-10 years, if not longer. It's already retired for all intensive purposes.

They should schedule a retirement ceremony right now for immediately following the MN@GB game this season. Can you imagine ol' #4 participating in a number retirement ceremony immediately following a Vikings loss?

And they could have the little frisbee dropping dog bring his jersey to the podium clenched in it's jaws and Favre would have to pry it from his snarling maw.

[HarveyWallbangers]

In any event, I agree that there ought to be an elite place in the annals of Packer history for Donald Driver. Unfortunately, I'm not convinced it should be having his number retired, but just the Packer Hall of Fame doesn't do Donald Driver's character, career-long performance, and overall contributions to this franchise justice.

Agreed. Perhaps they'll go against the grain and put his name up inside the stadium.

[HowardRoark]

I was originally thinking that you don't retire Favre's number. I now bet they either will retire it, or won't hand it out for years after Favre makes the HOF. (I also think we hashed through this issue before).

Still, So long as Favre's with the Vikings, I say give #4 to your worst rookie FA signing in the off season and make sure you have the little frisbee catching dog at halftime wear a little #4 sweater. And have the dog be really sucky at catching the frisbee.

They could just retire it now and be done with it. That's been the most visible number and jersey pairing in the NFL over the last decade plus. Who would want to wear a GB #4? There's no #4 on the roster now, and I would be amazed if that number was assigned any time over the next 5-10 years, if not longer. It's already retired for all intensive purposes.

They should schedule a retirement ceremony right now for immediately following the MN@GB game this season. Can you imagine ol' #4 participating in a number retirement ceremony immediately following a Vikings loss? I see a loophole: catching a frisbee is not an intensive purpose.

When superfan uses a word, it means just what he chooses it to mean -- neither more nor less.

[Little Whiskey]

If this team goes on to win a few SB's and both DD and Rodgers are on all these teams, the nod to retire a number would fall to Rodgers. his position is so much more integral to the team than WR.

[Guiness]

They could just retire it now and be done with it. That's been the most visible number and jersey pairing in the NFL over the last decade plus. Who would want to wear a GB #4? There's no #4 on the roster now, and I would be amazed if that number was assigned any time over the next 5-10 years, if not longer. It's already retired for all intensive purposes.

They should schedule a retirement ceremony right now for immediately following the MN@GB game this season. Can you imagine ol' #4 participating in a number retirement ceremony immediately following a Vikings loss?

My gawd SF, you're a #$%^} genius!

I can't express how much I love that idea. Retire his number now, while he's still playing! He already thinks he's a living legend, why not make it official? The bonus of doing it while he's actually there kills me.

:taunt: (because there's no 'thumbing your nose' emoticon)

[Fritz]

Dorsey Levens? Elijah Pitts?

Man, I like those guys and all, but in the Packer Hall of Fame?

Then how about Travis Jervey? Or Eddie Lee Ivory?

[Smidgeon]

I was going to reply to this thread, but ended up writing enough for an article instead. So I posted it as a new thread (http://packerrats.com/ratchat/viewtopic.php?t=21235).

[Joemailman]

Fred N. Trowbridge Sr. was a complete media creation. I can't believe they sullied the PHOF with his plaque! *


















* completyly unfamiliar with Mr. Trowbridge's work

Congratulations! If you Google Fred N. Trowbridge, your post is the first think that comes up. Expect some nasty e-mail from the Trowbridge family.

[LEWCWA]

Nobody on the current roster will have their # retired. I would say the only one with a shot is Rodgers....but he would have to win more than one superbowl and hang around for about 12 more years....football hall maybe a couple have an outside shot--Rodgers, Woodson(he will have to win it all though), Clay has a good start, but a long ways to go. Alot of it depends on getting a superbowl or two in the case. Super Bowls make everyone look just a little better!