Can MM take this team to the next level

[Packers4Glory]

I think he's a good offensive coach and is obviously pretty good at developing a QB.

However I do not think he is good enough to coach a team to a super bowl. His teams are undisciplined and commit stupid horrible penalties. They also suck on a yearly basis on special teams.

Speaking of special teams, some of that is at TT feet. They could have got some help w/ roster cuts but chose to keep what they had...which is isn't anything special. Its part coaching but also part talent. They just don't have enough talent on ST to be consistent.

I've seen 2 bear games, and they won 2 games because of special teams. They kept Detroit inside the 20 yard line the entire game and then beat us w/ superior special teams.

It seems we have a great offense, a good defense, and shitty special teams. They largely ignore special teams it would seem and don't place much emphasis on getting some ST guys that can play and make a difference.

there are 3 important phases of a game and you really can't ignore any of them.

[Tony Oday]

OK so we lost one game and he cant take us to the next level? MY GOD PEOPLE! Can he coach JJ NOT to get stripped like a Mercedes in the Bronx? Can he make the fing special teams guys actually tackle? Can he control bullshit calls? Can he coach the team to not get a blocked FG?

This game was simply PISS POOR execution.

[mraynrand]

OK so we lost one game and he cant take us to the next level? MY GOD PEOPLE! Can he coach JJ NOT to get stripped like a Mercedes in the Bronx? Can he make the fing special teams guys actually tackle? Can he control bullshit calls? Can he coach the team to not get a blocked FG?

This game was simply PISS POOR execution.

WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON OUT THERE!!!

[MichiganPackerFan]

OK so we lost one game and he cant take us to the next level? MY GOD PEOPLE! Can he coach JJ NOT to get stripped like a Mercedes in the Bronx? Can he make the fing special teams guys actually tackle? Can he control bullshit calls? Can he coach the team to not get a blocked FG?

This game was simply PISS POOR execution.

John McKay, in response to a question about his team's execution - "I'm all in favor of it."

[Packers4Glory]

OK so we lost one game and he cant take us to the next level? MY GOD PEOPLE! Can he coach JJ NOT to get stripped like a Mercedes in the Bronx? Can he make the fing special teams guys actually tackle? Can he control bullshit calls? Can he coach the team to not get a blocked FG?

This game was simply PISS POOR execution.

bullshit calls? meh. I'm not playing that card because I can argue w/ very little of the calls made.

Poor execution is a product of coaching.

9475845 penalties in a game..could be a fluke, bad calls, or a trend. So based off the past few seasons, I'm going w/ a a trend. We have committed a shit ton of penalties the past few years. Whose that on? Whose job is it to get it in check?

There is NO excuse for the amount of penalties this team has racked up over the past several seasons.

Penalties and special teams cost us this game just like they have cost us several the past few years.

Not to mention his game management and challenge decisions hurt us quite a bit during a season.

[Tony Oday]

OK so we lost one game and he cant take us to the next level? MY GOD PEOPLE! Can he coach JJ NOT to get stripped like a Mercedes in the Bronx? Can he make the fing special teams guys actually tackle? Can he control bullshit calls? Can he coach the team to not get a blocked FG?

This game was simply PISS POOR execution.

bullshit calls? meh. I'm not playing that card because I can argue w/ very little of the calls made.

Poor execution is a product of coaching.

9475845 penalties in a game..could be a fluke, bad calls, or a trend. So based off the past few seasons, I'm going w/ a a trend. We have committed a shit ton of penalties the past few years. Whose that on? Whose job is it to get it in check?

There is NO excuse for the amount of penalties this team has racked up over the past several seasons.

Penalties and special teams cost us this game just like they have cost us several the past few years.

Not to mention his game management and challenge decisions hurt us quite a bit during a season.

That last drive of the bears was salvaged by two bullshit penalties so rewatch the game.

I liked the challenge you HAVE to do that there if for nothing else than to calm down the team and at full speed I thought he was out.

You can coach all offseason camp and during the season and penalties happen when the guys get lazy. I am sure the football players on the field will tell you that it is them to execute the gameplan.

[denverYooper]

Unfortunately not every team has Mike Tomlin.

I do think M3 can win the SB for the simple reason that Payton did. They're quite similar, actually. Both are good offensive minds with creative, explosive offenses and both can be frustrating as game managers.

[mission]

I honestly don't think the Packers can be the best team in the NFL (SB champs) with MM at the helm.

He's a good coach, does a lot of things well -- he just can't ever be the best. Doesn't have what it takes.

The longer he teases us with "pretty good" seasons because of the talent that TT has given him, the longer we'll have to endure ridiculous games like Monday night.

[sheepshead]

we need some of this mike:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ocV5bGHdYag

[Tony Oday]

When we sweep the purple this year I hope the crow will taste good.

[vince]

OK so we lost one game and he cant take us to the next level? MY GOD PEOPLE! Can he coach JJ NOT to get stripped like a Mercedes in the Bronx? Can he make the fing special teams guys actually tackle? Can he control bullshit calls? Can he coach the team to not get a blocked FG?

This game was simply PISS POOR execution.
This. If Jones doesn't fumble, this thread likely isn't started.

[sheepshead]

OK so we lost one game and he cant take us to the next level? MY GOD PEOPLE! Can he coach JJ NOT to get stripped like a Mercedes in the Bronx? Can he make the fing special teams guys actually tackle? Can he control bullshit calls? Can he coach the team to not get a blocked FG?

This game was simply PISS POOR execution.
This. If Jones doesn't fumble, this thread likely isn't started.

152 yards in penalties and we just ignore it? thats like 3 drives, just getting out of the way--here ya go right into field goal range.

[Packers4Glory]

OK so we lost one game and he cant take us to the next level? MY GOD PEOPLE! Can he coach JJ NOT to get stripped like a Mercedes in the Bronx? Can he make the fing special teams guys actually tackle? Can he control bullshit calls? Can he coach the team to not get a blocked FG?

This game was simply PISS POOR execution.
This. If Jones doesn't fumble, this thread likely isn't started.

negative. Watching that many penalties is enough for me. I've been harping on this going on 2 years now. Maybe the thread is delayed because had he not fumbled we wouldn't have seen the stupid challenge that highlights his poor game management.

Penalties happen. Even if you get "bull shit" penalties, I promise you its because the Packers have built up a huge reputation for committing said penalties the past 3 -4 seasons.

thats discipline and that falls on the coaching staff when its been such an even trend over the past several seasons.

end of story.

[Packers4Glory]

Offensive penalty yards NFL

2007-rank #2 1006 yards (2nd worst in NFL)
2008-rank #1 984 yards (worst in NFL)
2009-rank #2 1057 yards


Defensive penalty yards NFL

2007-rank #1 908 yards (worst in NFL)
2008-rank #15 721 yards
2009-rank #5 914 yards


Last good year we had as far as penalties was 2006 when we were in the bottom half of the lg.

[sheepshead]

I couldn't agree more, while so many fans rip the crap out of TT(its allowed im not saying that) MM has largely gotten a pass for whatever reason. He should be on the shortest of leashes as far as Im concerned and with this team his expectations need to be very high for 2010-2011

[red]

i've never been a fan of M3. its clear he lacks discipline. he often gets out coached. he doesn't seem to be able to adjust very well when things don't go the way he planned them. and he lacks any killer instinct. he never finishes off a team when he has the chance too and all too often lets teams back in the game.

oh, and some of his buddy coaches he brings in and then coddels makes me want to bang my head on a stone wall

he always says, we'll get that fixed. when was the last time something got fixed? we're still having the exact same problems we had 3 years ago. he never fixes anything

i cringed when M3 got his extension after the magic favre year. i think he's a good QB coach and maybe even at offensive coordinator. but i think he's in over his head as a head coach. as i said in the game thread i think the player talent outweighs the head coaching talent

IMO

[Fred's Slacks]

The first 2 game were much better then this one.
Its early in the season.
We always play better the second half of the season.

I don't see why he can't take us all the way. It wasn't special teams and lack of discipline that lost the Steelers game or the Cardinals game last year. It was poor pass defense. I think we're better there this year.

[mmmdk]

I honestly don't think the Packers can be the best team in the NFL (SB champs) with MM at the helm.

He's a good coach, does a lot of things well -- he just can't ever be the best. Doesn't have what it takes.

The longer he teases us with "pretty good" seasons because of the talent that TT has given him, the longer we'll have to endure ridiculous games like Monday night.

What Mission says! :flm:

[Packers4Glory]

I agree w/ that he does a lot of things well. He just can't seem to hold the team accountable and get the discipline in check. Its all there in the penalty stats. Until that trend changes and both he and TT decide not to gloss over having a solid special teams group....I'm worried about the ability to win in January.

Again, the Bears won 2 of 3 games this yr on special teams. One in pinning Detroit deep in their own territory for most of the game, and one in beat the Packers punt teams and blocking a kick.

[mmmdk]

I agree w/ that he does a lot of things well. He just can't seem to hold the team accountable and get the discipline in check. Its all there in the penalty stats. Until that trend changes and both he and TT decide not to gloss over having a solid special teams group....I'm worried about the ability to win in January.

Again, the Bears won 2 of 3 games this yr on special teams. One in pinning Detroit deep in their own territory for most of the game, and one in beat the Packers punt teams and blocking a kick.

You have to admire what Lovie squeezes out of the roster he has at hands; ST was a huge part of Bears SB run season too. GB won SB with great D, great ST and a gunslinger at QB - kinda like what Bears are built though with their own style. Holmgren & Lovie are great leaders.

TT has built Packers a great defense & offense yet ST still is an issue but improving...and oh, Packers lack a true leader as head coach. McCarthy is ok but ok doesn't win titles.

NFC crown is up for grabs - Packers should be primed to snatch it but won't. Bears game was another evidence of McCarthy lead teams aren't galvanized for the task.

[Packgator]

he always says, we'll get that fixed. when was the last time something got fixed? he never fixes anything

Last season the Packers went 4-4 the first eight games. They went 7-1 the second eight games. Must have been some fixing going on.

[Packers4Glory]

he always says, we'll get that fixed. when was the last time something got fixed? he never fixes anything

Last season the Packers went 4-4 the first eight games. They went 7-1 the second eight games. Must have been some fixing going on.

Did you bother looking back at the schedule and looking at it from that point of view? We did manage to beat two good teams (Dal and Balt) at home. The dallas game was a big one in retrospect because we had just lost at home to Favre and then tanked in TB vs a horrible team.

I'll give him credit for refocusing the team and turning it around because I think the season was on the line at home vs the cowboys.

Overall we went 2-4 vs playoff caliber teams, AZ was a throw away and not counted.

[sheepshead]

Im not saying fire the guy but there sure is a lot more on him right now then there is TT.

[mission]

I really don't think MM is the SB winning coach for this team.

(updated)

[mission]

Im not saying fire the guy but there sure is a lot more on him right now then there is TT.

It's funny -- I'm at the Atlanta Packers bar today and kind of interacting with some of the patrons there. I'm in a definite minority in thinking MM is a major part of this team looking like it is. Most of what I hear is that TT needs to "trade for Lynch" and "sign a FA" when I'm talking trash with the guy next to me in the pisser. General Packer nation is like the JSO of real life IMO :lol:

[sheepshead]

Im not saying fire the guy but there sure is a lot more on him right now then there is TT.

It's funny -- I'm at the Atlanta Packers bar today and kind of interacting with some of the patrons there. I'm in a definite minority in thinking MM is a major part of this team looking like it is. Most of what I hear is that TT needs to "trade for Lynch" and "sign a FA" when I'm talking trash with the guy next to me in the pisser. General Packer nation is like the JSO of real life IMO :lol:

For sure. Someone actually wrote on here after the bears game that maybe the penalties are a result of TT not signing enough free agents or some such shit.

[denverYooper]

Im not saying fire the guy but there sure is a lot more on him right now then there is TT.

It's funny -- I'm at the Atlanta Packers bar today and kind of interacting with some of the patrons there. I'm in a definite minority in thinking MM is a major part of this team looking like it is. Most of what I hear is that TT needs to "trade for Lynch" and "sign a FA" when I'm talking trash with the guy next to me in the pisser. General Packer nation is like the JSO of real life IMO :lol:

For sure. Someone actually wrote on here after the bears game that maybe the penalties are a result of TT not signing enough free agents or some such shit.

A form of that, and a pretty popular argument, is that their youth is to blame.

[Pugger]

The one good thing I took away from yesterday's game is the # of penalties we committed against the loins. If we can continue to clean up that aspect of our play that will be huge. Then maybe next time we are on the road the outcome of that game will be vastly different than the debacle at Soldier Field last week.

[pbmax]

"We got that fixed."

-MM

[sharpe1027]

Just to play devil's advocate, penalties often occur when players are over-matched. A tackle doesn't hold unless he's worried about getting beat, he jumps offsides or lines up in the backfield when he's worried about getting beat off the edge. DBs get called for holding or PI when they are out of position, which often happens when a WR beats them. ect...

I think there's a bit of luck, a bit of coaching and some one-on-one mismatches that led the crazy amount of penalties.

[Packers4Glory]

Just to play devil's advocate, penalties often occur when players are over-matched. A tackle doesn't hold unless he's worried about getting beat, he jumps offsides or lines up in the backfield when he's worried about getting beat off the edge. DBs get called for holding or PI when they are out of position, which often happens when a WR beats them. ect...

I think there's a bit of luck, a bit of coaching and some one-on-one mismatches that led the crazy amount of penalties.I get that. my gripe is at some of the stupid 15 yard jobbers they commit. aside from Zombo's which I can't hold him really at fault, it was just one of those accidental shots that happen. But Williams and Mathews both had absolutely stupid ones.

They also need to clean up special teams coverages and penalties.

The bears game was a perfect storm of bad penalties, ST, and being unlucky. Cutler had 2 INT's called back due to one accidental penalty and one where the WR stopped for a short ball that ended up being a pass interference on a ball that was going to be picked either way by collins. Plus another INT Woodson dropped in the 4th.

[denverYooper]

Just to play devil's advocate, penalties often occur when players are over-matched. A tackle doesn't hold unless he's worried about getting beat, he jumps offsides or lines up in the backfield when he's worried about getting beat off the edge. DBs get called for holding or PI when they are out of position, which often happens when a WR beats them. ect...

I think there's a bit of luck, a bit of coaching and some one-on-one mismatches that led the crazy amount of penalties.I get that. my gripe is at some of the stupid 15 yard jobbers they commit. aside from Zombo's which I can't hold him really at fault, it was just one of those accidental shots that happen. But Williams and Mathews both had absolutely stupid ones.

They also need to clean up special teams coverages and penalties.

The bears game was a perfect storm of bad penalties, ST, and being unlucky. Cutler had 2 INT's called back due to one accidental penalty and one where the WR stopped for a short ball that ended up being a pass interference on a ball that was going to be picked either way by collins. Plus another INT Woodson dropped in the 4th.

And another one dropped by Collins earlier in the game. That *could* easily have been a 4-5 pick game.

[retailguy]

Can MM take this team to the next level?

No.

[mmmdk]

What if Packers had lost to Lions by a hair? Then McStubby is nothing but a liar. This game has more troubling red lights than I count on one hand and has the looks of an actual loss. McCarthy is the captain of the Packer sailing ship but he's trying to dive as if he captains a U-boat.
Dodgeball won't fix anything, Mister.

When you're playing badly [W or L] and as HC you're also fumbling too then admit it - don't lie or cover it up. But U can't fix McCarthy; he is what he is.

[TravisWilliams23]

I,m beginning to lean towards no.

After watching the Patriots special teams score 3 different ways tonight, I can't help but come to the conclusion that Green Bay's coaching is sorely lacking.

With this team, I never get a feeling they will block a punt or field goal. It's like there's no attempt to get things changed for the better. Same with the kick off and punt return team. Jordy has become a liability on kick offs and about the only positive about Tramon on punt returns is that he's sure handed.

Add all the injuries piling up to key players and this year's team is starting to look like a very ordinary football squad.

Can MM change it? Last year after the Tampa Bay loss the team responded with a 7 and 1 ending but they didn't have the injuries like this year. I'm still waiting for the Pack to play a complete football game where you just know they're going to win the game. That's on MM and his staff.

[3irty1]

I think MM is every bit the coach that Sean Peyton is and he did get it done. MM will be fine. His play calling/gameplan are always well thought out. He just doesn't have the management style of some other coaches that are involved with everything. McCarthy delegates and lets other coaches coach and the GM manage. I like that style for Green Bay.

[Smidgeon]

I think MM is every bit the coach that Sean Peyton is and he did get it done. MM will be fine. His play calling/gameplan are always well thought out. He just doesn't have the management style of some other coaches that are involved with everything. McCarthy delegates and lets other coaches coach and the GM manage. I like that style for Green Bay.

If anything, McCarthy's fault is staying loyal to coaches who aren't getting it done. *cough*Campen*cough*

[mmmdk]

I think MM is every bit the coach that Sean Peyton is and he did get it done. MM will be fine. His play calling/gameplan are always well thought out. He just doesn't have the management style of some other coaches that are involved with everything. McCarthy delegates and lets other coaches coach and the GM manage. I like that style for Green Bay.

I hope 100% you are right and I am wrong. :D

[Bretsky]

I still think MM is decent and am confident he can win the big one if he has the ammo

[pbmax]

Can MM take this team to the next level?

No.
What happened to the new outlook?

Or does belief in Ted not translate to belief in his coach? :D

[pbmax]

I think MM is every bit the coach that Sean Peyton is and he did get it done. MM will be fine. His play calling/gameplan are always well thought out. He just doesn't have the management style of some other coaches that are involved with everything. McCarthy delegates and lets other coaches coach and the GM manage. I like that style for Green Bay.

If anything, McCarthy's fault is staying loyal to coaches who aren't getting it done. *cough*Campen*cough*
They played the best of all the units against the best unit of the Lions.

No if you can convince me Campen is why they are all over the board, then I am all ears.

[retailguy]

Can MM take this team to the next level?

No.
What happened to the new outlook?

Or does belief in Ted not translate to belief in his coach? :D

Absolutely not. I've always tolerated McCarthy. During the losing streaks I've sometimes called him McCrappy.

His QB development is unquestioned. Anyone who can turn Aaron Brooks into a starter? Nuff said.

I'm not a fan of his in game adjustments. I'm not a fan of his OL and ST coaches.

More later...

Edit -

So, from my vantage point do you can the guy? Nope, probably not.

But I have doubts that he can improve the team from where it is now. The slow starting sporadic teams might be the best McCarthy can do.

We'll see over the next couple of years.

[Smidgeon]

I think MM is every bit the coach that Sean Peyton is and he did get it done. MM will be fine. His play calling/gameplan are always well thought out. He just doesn't have the management style of some other coaches that are involved with everything. McCarthy delegates and lets other coaches coach and the GM manage. I like that style for Green Bay.

If anything, McCarthy's fault is staying loyal to coaches who aren't getting it done. *cough*Campen*cough*
They played the best of all the units against the best unit of the Lions.

No if you can convince me Campen is why they are all over the board, then I am all ears.

Well, it's more frustration out of the Slocum promotion... and the Sanders retainment at the beginning of his tenure. It's pure speculation, but I think that TT encouraged him to find a more experience/successful D-coordinator when M3 got Capers. The rest of M3's hires have been "safe" in-house hires. So that's an area where I think he needs some improvement. He could have gone after Tice (a proven O-line coach) or someone else or the Bills' old ST coach. I'm not saying they're proven, but as coaches, experience matters more than 40 times. ;)

[gbgary]

Can MM take this team to the next level?

the next level must be overrated.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I've been a lot happier with MM's tenure than I was with Sherman's. With sherman it felt like the team was always in a slide. MM's teams seem to improve throughout the season. I've been concerned with the failure to develop the OL with so many players coming and going, but let's not forget Sherman's choke jobs in the playoffs. Nevermind: it's ok to forget.