Woodson - Is it "a" or "b"?

[Patler]

a- Woodson's end of camp toe injury is bothering him more than admitted.
b - Woodson has lost a step.

Something is up.

Phil - Holding
Buf - Pass interference
Chi. - Pass interference
Det. - Pass interference
Wash - illegal use of hands, illegal contact, Pass interference

Many of the penalties have come when Woodson was trailing a receiver, several when he simply dragged the guy down. He is being called because he does it when beaten, not in aggressively going for the ball or fighting on equal status for position. He is too often trailing receivers.

Something's up with Woodson, and it isn't good.

[OS PA]

My guess is that many of these penalties were ones that he got away with last year, and due to him being the DPOY teams have asked refs to watch him closer. The defense also seems to be a little bit out of sync this year. I'd be interested to see if you had any information on when his penalties were committed as well as what key players were either in or out of the game at the time the penalties occurred.

[Joemailman]

I think it's a. Looks to me like he's having trouble planting to change direction, so he's reaching out to grab. Just have to work through it, and hope it gets better in the bye week.

[Patler]

My guess is that many of these penalties were ones that he got away with last year, and due to him being the DPOY teams have asked refs to watch him closer. The defense also seems to be a little bit out of sync this year. I'd be interested to see if you had any information on when his penalties were committed as well as what key players were either in or out of the game at the time the penalties occurred.

Nothing to do with it, from what I've seen. Woodson is getting beaten on moves and isn't catching up. He's getting penalties trailing the receiver. It has nothing to do with who is in the game and who is out, or in getting greater scrutiny. Most of his penalties have been no-brainer calls for the officials.

Last year he seemed to know what the receiver was doing as he did it, because Woodson was right with him. Not so in many situations this year.

[Patler]

I think it's a. Looks to me like he's having trouble planting to change direction, so he's reaching out to grab. Just have to work through it, and hope it gets better in the bye week.

Could be, hard to tell. Either the foot is failing him, or he has lost quickness from last year.

[woodbuck27]

My guess is that many of these penalties were ones that he got away with last year, and due to him being the DPOY teams have asked refs to watch him closer. The defense also seems to be a little bit out of sync this year. I'd be interested to see if you had any information on when his penalties were committed as well as what key players were either in or out of the game at the time the penalties occurred.

Nothing to do with it, from what I've seen. Woodson is getting beaten on moves and isn't catching up. He's getting penalties trailing the receiver. It has nothing to do with who is in the game and who is out, or in getting greater scrutiny. Most of his penalties have been no-brainer calls for the officials.

Last year he seemed to know what the receiver was doing as he did it, because Woodson was right with him. Not so in many situations this year.

That is a concern and not encouraging news Patler. Interesting observation. You' have to look at how often offenses are throwing to his side of the field.

I tought that the telivised game here in Vermont was Packers @ Redskins and I was looking forward to seeing how our 'D' dealt with the adversity of late. I got NY Giants at Houston Texans instead.

The Giants are building. They have a decent running game and solid DL play and easily won over 'the Texans, inspite of Eli Manning's sloppy play forcing the ball and picks. The Texans? Which team shows up from week to week is just a guess.

It sure appears to be at least a similation of parity so far this season.

I've seen only one Packer game to date> That horrid 18 penalty game MNF game Vs da Bears.

GO PACK GO!

[3irty1]

I think he's just been covering really fast receivers so far this season. Every team we've played so far has at least one burner at the WR position. The Eagles have Jackson although Tramon mostly worked on him along the sidelines. The Bills have Evans. The Bears have Hester and Knox who are both crazy fast. The Lions have Calvin Johnson who Woodson spent most of the day covering. The Redskins have Moss who is in the upper echelon of receivers speed-wise.

Next week Woodson will likely be asked to cover Davone Bess who is a great slot receiver. He's a good player but an order lower in speed than the guys we've been playing against. Even if Woodson is asked to cover the Dolphins premiere receiver, Brandon Marshall, Woodson shouldn't have as much trouble keeping up.

[Patler]

I think he's just been covering really fast receivers so far this season. Every team we've played so far has at least one burner at the WR position. The Eagles have Jackson although Tramon mostly worked on him along the sidelines. The Bills have Evans. The Bears have Hester and Knox who are both crazy fast. The Lions have Calvin Johnson who Woodson spent most of the day covering. The Redskins have Moss who is in the upper echelon of receivers speed-wise.

Next week Woodson will likely be asked to cover Davone Bess who is a great slot receiver. He's a good player but an order lower in speed than the guys we've been playing against. Even if Woodson is asked to cover the Dolphins premiere receiver, Brandon Marshall, Woodson shouldn't have as much trouble keeping up.

Still, 7 coverage penalties in 5 games? I don't care if the guys are fast. Woodson was one of the best in the league as recently as last season, but is not playing that way now.

[Bossman641]

I think the injury is botherin him. Like you mentioned, there have been numerous times where WR's have gotten a step on him. He has always been handsy in the past but now he is doing it out of necessity rather than just regular hand-fighting with the receivers.

[The Leaper]

I've been seeing the same thing Patler, and mentioned it in the game thread today. He doesn't look like the same guy compared to last year...which in itself is probably expected because he was crazy good last year. However, he's committing way too many penalties this year after getting out of position...and he's also gotten away with a few that weren't called.

Turf toe is a bad injury for WRs/DBs...I would expect it to affect him.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I think it's in his head. He seems to be in a bad place mentally. The year started out like roses, but the end of the Bears game seemed to have triggered a general pall over this team--especially with Woodson.

[3irty1]

I think he's just been covering really fast receivers so far this season. Every team we've played so far has at least one burner at the WR position. The Eagles have Jackson although Tramon mostly worked on him along the sidelines. The Bills have Evans. The Bears have Hester and Knox who are both crazy fast. The Lions have Calvin Johnson who Woodson spent most of the day covering. The Redskins have Moss who is in the upper echelon of receivers speed-wise.

Next week Woodson will likely be asked to cover Davone Bess who is a great slot receiver. He's a good player but an order lower in speed than the guys we've been playing against. Even if Woodson is asked to cover the Dolphins premiere receiver, Brandon Marshall, Woodson shouldn't have as much trouble keeping up.

Still, 7 coverage penalties in 5 games? I don't care if the guys are fast. Woodson was one of the best in the league as recently as last season, but is not playing that way now.

Its still about the matchups and Woodson has been in some unfavorable ones. Woodson is a great player but asking him to run with Santana Moss without being able to challenge him at the line is trouble. When looking at the Packers CB corps Woodson is easily the slowest. Trying to win a footrace against any of the others is just a waste of time. Offensive coordinators obviously like this matchup.

He's still shown the ability to play the ball at an elite level and has been his same old self in run support as well. I think he'll be fine. Not looking forward to Woodson on Percy Harvin though.

[vince]

I think the toe has him thinking he needs to cheat more. I haven't seen him out of position as much as just making mistakes when in relatively good position. He needs to keep his hands off of guys after 5 yds. and time his closes on the ball better and he'd be ok.

[mraynrand]

a,b, and c. With 'c' being that he is cheating a bit, trying to get that big play. I've seen several plays where he is coming off his guy too early to make a play elsewhere, or where he is late getting into position. I'm not sure how much is scheme - trying to confuse the offense - or whether Chuck is just ad-libbing. I suspect with the injuries, he is trying harder to cover more ground and make plays. Reminds me a bit of Sharper when he tried to be everywhere covering center field for a bad secondary, especially in 2004 - he started looking out of position all the time. Don't want Woodson going down that road, especially when he's hurting and showing his age too.

[Tarlam!]

Well, if he has lost a step, maybe when Al gets back, it's worth considering Chuck at Safety.

I think you guys are all right: injury, a step slower, too handsy and his head. Maybe he got away with more previously; I don't get to see enough games to make a call on that.

[MJZiggy]

I thought Al was coming back at safety for a while.

[Deputy Nutz]

Well I think it is probably neither. Sure he is old for a corner in this league and probably doesn't have the reaction time he did 5 years ago, but I also think that the secondary doesn't have Al Harris, which means Williams is starting and not the nickle, which leave the nickel to Sam Shields who is hurt which leave the position to Pat Lee or Bush right now. Morgan Burnett was a rookie who was in the learning process and now he is hurt, sub in Peprah. No consistency in the secondary.

[packerbacker1234]

He had a bunch of penalities last year too. In fact, I am fairly certain every year in the league he has been penalized a lot. Remember all the penalties Al Harris use to get?

When you play bump and run coverage (tight, physical, man on man coverage) there is going to be contact on almost every play. It's whether or not you get called for it. Woodson got his fair share of penalities last year - but it felt like so much less because for 11 games we had Harris bump and run the #1 WR and let Woodson cover the slot/roam the field, reading the QB, and making plays. This year, it seems clear the packers don't have that same confidence in Tramon Williams - this leaves Woodson in one on one with the #1 guy a lot.

Stats for #1 WR's against us this year:

Deshean Jackson - 4 catches 30 yards
Lee Evans - 0 catches
Johnny Knox - 4 catches, 94 yards
Calvin Johnson - 6 catches, 86 yards, 2 tds - by far Woodson's worse performance of the year, though he did notably make every single stop on the final drive, including two batted passes one on one with Johnson - so he stepped up when we needed him most.
Santana Moss - 7 Catches, 118 yards

Of this, it is important to note that Woodson is never just assigned to the #1 guy (like harris or revis are), we did move him around and he got his hands on a few balls - it's only on key drives that Woodson right now is solely on their best WR.

When I look at the question I go with option C: None of the above.

Woodson is fine, He was penalized last year, and he's pretty good in bump and run one on one. A LOT of penalties seem to be him arriving to EARLY, not too late. People are like "oh he's beat so..." so what? He's arriving early, that aint cause he's beat. You arrive late when you are beat and grab the jersey. He's flat out arriving early, meaning he is on top of the play. he just has to hold back about 1 second longer most hte time.

Hands to the face isn't really on him either. That happens time to time in bump and run coverage. Just ask Harris.

[Patler]

He already has seven penalties. That is generally about a years worth of penalties. Seven total and 4 PI penalties in five games is an extraordinary pace.

Something isn't right.

[pbmax]

Its still about the matchups and Woodson has been in some unfavorable ones. Woodson is a great player but asking him to run with Santana Moss without being able to challenge him at the line is trouble. When looking at the Packers CB corps Woodson is easily the slowest. Trying to win a footrace against any of the others is just a waste of time. Offensive coordinators obviously like this matchup.
If your assertion is true, then Woodson is in trouble. He is not a bump and run CB and never has been. His game is not Al Harris' game. He presses, meaning he mirrors the receiver if he is in man coverage. In Sanders defense, even when in man, one on one, he did not challenge the receiver physically at the line.

He has played the off coverage dictated by Capers defense well before. That he has had trouble doing so lately in not because he must be on the line.

[pbmax]

When you play bump and run coverage (tight, physical, man on man coverage)
That is not the coverage or technique he is usually playing. And versus Moss, he was off the line.

[3irty1]

Its still about the matchups and Woodson has been in some unfavorable ones. Woodson is a great player but asking him to run with Santana Moss without being able to challenge him at the line is trouble. When looking at the Packers CB corps Woodson is easily the slowest. Trying to win a footrace against any of the others is just a waste of time. Offensive coordinators obviously like this matchup.
If your assertion is true, then Woodson is in trouble. He is not a bump and run CB and never has been. His game is not Al Harris' game. He presses, meaning he mirrors the receiver if he is in man coverage. In Sanders defense, even when in man, one on one, he did not challenge the receiver physically at the line.

He has played the off coverage dictated by Capers defense well before. That he has had trouble doing so lately in not because he must be on the line.

Press coverage and bump-and-run are almost the same thing. Press means lining up over the WR and bump and run is the most common technique to use while in press. The DB lines up directly over his receiver and immediately gets his hands on the receiver in order to reroute them and screw up their timing and position. Harris is arguably the best ever at the technique but Woodson has the size and physical playing style that also make him among the best. Under Bob Sanders where press coverage was the norm, Woodson and Harris were considered the best CB tandem in the league. What do you mean he's not a bump-and-run corner? He's a pro-bowler in that scheme.

Lets not act like Woodson won DPOTY honors because of his lock down coverage anyways. He makes an exceptional amount of plays as a defensive back. He can win the game for you. He's still doing that and his coverage isn't bad either. The penalties of late are a result of being asked to beat faster players at their own game. If I'm right then the trend should stop this week against Miami with Bess and Marshall.

[imscott72]

He just turned 34. I think it's a combination of A and B. Someone kill me now for suggesting this, but I wonder how the secondary would look with Woodson at safety with Collins, Harris at nickle, and Bush on the corner. Yes Bush, is Bush, but he's improved and does have the speed to hang at least and hopefully would cut down on penalties. Now convincing Woodson to go to safety is a nother matter all together.

[gbgary]

Its still about the matchups and Woodson has been in some unfavorable ones. Woodson is a great player but asking him to run with Santana Moss without being able to challenge him at the line is trouble. When looking at the Packers CB corps Woodson is easily the slowest. Trying to win a footrace against any of the others is just a waste of time. Offensive coordinators obviously like this matchup.
If your assertion is true, then Woodson is in trouble. He is not a bump and run CB and never has been. His game is not Al Harris' game. He presses, meaning he mirrors the receiver if he is in man coverage. In Sanders defense, even when in man, one on one, he did not challenge the receiver physically at the line.

He has played the off coverage dictated by Capers defense well before. That he has had trouble doing so lately in not because he must be on the line.

Press coverage and bump-and-run are almost the same thing...

yup. get up in their face. until this year that's all he and al have been playing. they're playing more zone this year. chuck is fine! the D is hanging in there. it's the O that's the problem. they can't put together drives so the D is out there most of the time and they're getting tired.

[bobblehead]

I think we have a reputation for drawing flags now and the refs are tossing the hanky on anything close....ask ray lewis about it.

[mmmdk]

The injury has got to be the main reaseon 'cos Chuck doesn't lose his abilities overnight. Woody might have lost a step but that would stil have him at a pro bowl level. A turf hurts and now chuck is playing at the NFL average for CBs - barely.

Injuries suck but don't Packer fans know it!? :(

[Patler]

The injury has got to be the main reaseon 'cos Chuck doesn't lose his abilities overnight. Woody might have lost a step but that would stil have him at a pro bowl level. A turf hurts and now chuck is playing at the NFL average for CBs - barely.

Injuries suck but don't Packer fans know it!? :(

Not overnight, but he might have over an off-season, especially after a physically demanding season last year. At the end of the year he was pretty beat-up.

Lots of pro athletes say they know when to retire when they come back one season, and suddenly can't do what they were able to do just a few months before.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

There is nothing wrong with Woodson. He is still a top three corner in football. We didn't lose the Redskins game b/c of Woodson. We lost b/c the offense couldn't move the ball in the second half the MM is a crap coach.

Even the best players give up plays they when keep being put in high pressure situations. Yes he gets called for a lot but a lot of that has to do with the retard refs. They don't call fair games for us at all. Where was the call on Rodgers when he threw the pick? What the hell call was that on Poppinga? What about the no holding call on Matthews in the end zone? If I was Woodson I would be holding too, the other team gets away with whatever they want and we get called for everything. Thats what really needs to be discussed.

[MJZiggy]

He just turned 34. I think it's a combination of A and B. Someone kill me now for suggesting this, but I wonder how the secondary would look with Woodson at safety with Collins, Harris at nickle, and Bush on the corner. Yes Bush, is Bush, but he's improved and does have the speed to hang at least and hopefully would cut down on penalties. Now convincing Woodson to go to safety is a nother matter all together.

What about Williams???

[Patler]

There is nothing wrong with Woodson. He is still a top three corner in football. We didn't lose the Redskins game b/c of Woodson. We lost b/c the offense couldn't move the ball in the second half the MM is a crap coach.

Even the best players give up plays they when keep being put in high pressure situations. Yes he gets called for a lot but a lot of that has to do with the retard refs. They don't call fair games for us at all. Where was the call on Rodgers when he threw the pick? What the hell call was that on Poppinga? What about the no holding call on Matthews in the end zone? If I was Woodson I would be holding too, the other team gets away with whatever they want and we get called for everything. Thats what really needs to be discussed.

I wasn't blaming him for the Washington loss, but to me 7 coverage penalties in 5 games is alarming. Like I said, that was about what he used to get for a full season, and he has done it in just 5 games, with at least one in each game.

I also don't think you can blame the refs. Quite a few of Woodson's have come when he dragged a guy down from behind. Most have been blatant penalties, not subtle ones detected on replays. He has had plenty of others that he could have been called on as well, but the refs have let them go, or didn't see them.

Sure, Woodson has also made a number of plays. But I am concerned about the way he is playing, overall.

[Smidgeon]

There is nothing wrong with Woodson. He is still a top three corner in football. We didn't lose the Redskins game b/c of Woodson. We lost b/c the offense couldn't move the ball in the second half the MM is a crap coach.

Even the best players give up plays they when keep being put in high pressure situations. Yes he gets called for a lot but a lot of that has to do with the retard refs. They don't call fair games for us at all. Where was the call on Rodgers when he threw the pick? What the hell call was that on Poppinga? What about the no holding call on Matthews in the end zone? If I was Woodson I would be holding too, the other team gets away with whatever they want and we get called for everything. Thats what really needs to be discussed.

I wasn't blaming him for the Washington loss, but to me 7 coverage penalties in 5 games is alarming. Like I said, that was about what he used to get for a full season, and he has done it in just 5 games, with at least one in each game.

I also don't think you can blame the refs. Quite a few of Woodson's have come when he dragged a guy down from behind. Most have been blatant penalties, not subtle ones detected on replays. He has had plenty of others that he could have been called on as well, but the refs have let them go, or didn't see them.

Sure, Woodson has also made a number of plays. But I am concerned about the way he is playing, overall.

The last PI against Woodson where he looked mad as hell, I actually didn't think was a PI despite how bad it looked. On the replay, it looked like the receiver was going down for the pass by himself. Woodson had his hand on the WR's shoulder, but didn't change the receivers route or move his body until the ball got there. I thought he used the receiver well without impeding the attempted catch.

Obviously, I could be wrong. But I think it's a case of something seeming different than it was. And I can't blame the refs (or anyone) for the way it was called because it looked bad. I just saw it a different way.

[imscott72]

He just turned 34. I think it's a combination of A and B. Someone kill me now for suggesting this, but I wonder how the secondary would look with Woodson at safety with Collins, Harris at nickle, and Bush on the corner. Yes Bush, is Bush, but he's improved and does have the speed to hang at least and hopefully would cut down on penalties. Now convincing Woodson to go to safety is a nother matter all together.

What about Williams???

What about Williams? He's on the other corner.

[get louder at lambeau]

There is nothing wrong with Woodson. He is still a top three corner in football. We didn't lose the Redskins game b/c of Woodson. We lost b/c the offense couldn't move the ball in the second half the MM is a crap coach.

Even the best players give up plays they when keep being put in high pressure situations. Yes he gets called for a lot but a lot of that has to do with the retard refs. They don't call fair games for us at all. Where was the call on Rodgers when he threw the pick? What the hell call was that on Poppinga? What about the no holding call on Matthews in the end zone? If I was Woodson I would be holding too, the other team gets away with whatever they want and we get called for everything. Thats what really needs to be discussed.

I wasn't blaming him for the Washington loss, but to me 7 coverage penalties in 5 games is alarming. Like I said, that was about what he used to get for a full season, and he has done it in just 5 games, with at least one in each game.

I also don't think you can blame the refs. Quite a few of Woodson's have come when he dragged a guy down from behind. Most have been blatant penalties, not subtle ones detected on replays. He has had plenty of others that he could have been called on as well, but the refs have let them go, or didn't see them.

Sure, Woodson has also made a number of plays. But I am concerned about the way he is playing, overall.

I'm with you. If Williams was doing this, people would be saying that he's not starting caliber, just a good nickel. If it was Shields, they'd say it was because he's too raw. If it was Pat Lee, people would say he just sucks and was a wasted pick. If it was Bush, people would say it's inexcusable and he should have been cut years ago. But since it's Woodson...

I tend to think it's GOT to be a lot to do with his turf toe. Any offensive coordinator and #1 WR worth their salt should be able to see how it's hampering him and exploit it, assuming that it means he can't cut very well in one direction. Woodson has never really been a true lockdown corner. He's a risk-taking ballhawk more than anything. He relies on his instincts to jump routes, or punches the ball out on tackles. If he can't burst off his big toe, he'll have a lot of trouble getting there.

The Lions abused him for three quarters with their second string QB targeting him constantly. He was great in the 4th quarter and redeemed himself in spades with the INT/TD.

He had a lot of penalties against Washington and was part of Cooley's big catch and run in the highlight videos with a failed tackle that looks like he knocked Poppinga off the TE. He just wasn't very good.

Moral of the story is that I think it's mostly his turf toe. I'll shut up now.

[pbmax]

Press coverage and bump-and-run are almost the same thing. Press means lining up over the WR and bump and run is the most common technique to use while in press. The DB lines up directly over his receiver and immediately gets his hands on the receiver in order to reroute them and screw up their timing and position. Harris is arguably the best ever at the technique but Woodson has the size and physical playing style that also make him among the best. Under Bob Sanders where press coverage was the norm, Woodson and Harris were considered the best CB tandem in the league. What do you mean he's not a bump-and-run corner? He's a pro-bowler in that scheme.

Lets not act like Woodson won DPOTY honors because of his lock down coverage anyways. He makes an exceptional amount of plays as a defensive back. He can win the game for you. He's still doing that and his coverage isn't bad either. The penalties of late are a result of being asked to beat faster players at their own game. If I'm right then the trend should stop this week against Miami with Bess and Marshall.
Woodson doesn't use the bump much at all. And while I cannot say he has never used it, I don't remember it even during Sanders time. Harris uses it to slow down, interrupt and redirect the receiver. Woodson does that by positioning but not an initial thud.

There is another term, rather than press, to describe the difference between bump and run and Woodson's technique, though my mind is blanking on it. My point though, is that Woodson's technique was more easily translated to playing off the WR in more of a zone concept. I do not think he is at a disadvantage off the receiver unless Patler's premise (or some other factor) is true.

[pbmax]

yup. get up in their face. until this year that's all he and al have been playing. they're playing more zone this year. chuck is fine! the D is hanging in there. it's the O that's the problem. they can't put together drives so the D is out there most of the time and they're getting tired.
That is flat not the case. Woodson has spent significant time in the slot in nickel and bumping that receiver is problematic because they are off the LOS.

Harris has played more press technique than most corners in this defense, but Woodson has been off quite a bit this year and last.

[Bretsky]

He just turned 34. I think it's a combination of A and B. Someone kill me now for suggesting this, but I wonder how the secondary would look with Woodson at safety with Collins, Harris at nickle, and Bush on the corner. Yes Bush, is Bush, but he's improved and does have the speed to hang at least and hopefully would cut down on penalties. Now convincing Woodson to go to safety is a nother matter all together.


Lock your doors

Guido is on his way over to take you down :!:

[3irty1]

Press coverage and bump-and-run are almost the same thing. Press means lining up over the WR and bump and run is the most common technique to use while in press. The DB lines up directly over his receiver and immediately gets his hands on the receiver in order to reroute them and screw up their timing and position. Harris is arguably the best ever at the technique but Woodson has the size and physical playing style that also make him among the best. Under Bob Sanders where press coverage was the norm, Woodson and Harris were considered the best CB tandem in the league. What do you mean he's not a bump-and-run corner? He's a pro-bowler in that scheme.

Lets not act like Woodson won DPOTY honors because of his lock down coverage anyways. He makes an exceptional amount of plays as a defensive back. He can win the game for you. He's still doing that and his coverage isn't bad either. The penalties of late are a result of being asked to beat faster players at their own game. If I'm right then the trend should stop this week against Miami with Bess and Marshall.
Woodson doesn't use the bump much at all. And while I cannot say he has never used it, I don't remember it even during Sanders time. Harris uses it to slow down, interrupt and redirect the receiver. Woodson does that by positioning but not an initial thud.

There is another term, rather than press, to describe the difference between bump and run and Woodson's technique, though my mind is blanking on it. My point though, is that Woodson's technique was more easily translated to playing off the WR in more of a zone concept. I do not think he is at a disadvantage off the receiver unless Patler's premise (or some other factor) is true.

Woodson didn't mug his guy the way Harris did but would definitely gain position and leverage to delay the route before dropping back before humping his guy down the field. Not as textbook as Harris, but gives him a chance to diagnose routes and create turnovers.

My point was that for any corner who is up against superior speed, some type of press coverage is an equalizer. Its not like Woodson can't do it, he's a professional cornerback.

[pbmax]

Press coverage and bump-and-run are almost the same thing. Press means lining up over the WR and bump and run is the most common technique to use while in press. The DB lines up directly over his receiver and immediately gets his hands on the receiver in order to reroute them and screw up their timing and position. Harris is arguably the best ever at the technique but Woodson has the size and physical playing style that also make him among the best. Under Bob Sanders where press coverage was the norm, Woodson and Harris were considered the best CB tandem in the league. What do you mean he's not a bump-and-run corner? He's a pro-bowler in that scheme.

Lets not act like Woodson won DPOTY honors because of his lock down coverage anyways. He makes an exceptional amount of plays as a defensive back. He can win the game for you. He's still doing that and his coverage isn't bad either. The penalties of late are a result of being asked to beat faster players at their own game. If I'm right then the trend should stop this week against Miami with Bess and Marshall.
Woodson doesn't use the bump much at all. And while I cannot say he has never used it, I don't remember it even during Sanders time. Harris uses it to slow down, interrupt and redirect the receiver. Woodson does that by positioning but not an initial thud.

There is another term, rather than press, to describe the difference between bump and run and Woodson's technique, though my mind is blanking on it. My point though, is that Woodson's technique was more easily translated to playing off the WR in more of a zone concept. I do not think he is at a disadvantage off the receiver unless Patler's premise (or some other factor) is true.

Woodson didn't mug his guy the way Harris did but would definitely gain position and leverage to delay the route before dropping back before humping his guy down the field. Not as textbook as Harris, but gives him a chance to diagnose routes and create turnovers.

My point was that for any corner who is up against superior speed, some type of press coverage is an equalizer. Its not like Woodson can't do it, he's a professional cornerback.
I gotcha. But what was the distance for a first? He may not have needed to stay with him, just on top of him.

[Patler]

Are we seeing the answer to my question?:


Whitt, on cornerback Charles Woodson: “I think he will have a big game Sunday. If he doesn’t, I will be totally surprised.” . . .

Two more penalties, more receptions, more of Woodson falling and not being with receivers. Doesn't appear to be any injuries. Coaches acknowledging this week that he is being outplayed by Williams.

Harris won't be the answer, not coming back from the injury he had, not when he is only about 10-11 months post-op.

[mmmdk]

I was wrong - it's "b".

[channtheman]

Woodson has gone from DPOY to worse than Jarrett Bush in one season. :shock:

[3irty1]

Friend of mine speculates that Woodson is still sour about what big physical receivers are getting away with in the NFL after the Arizona game. Claims that Woodson said something before the season about how he intended to be just as physical. If this is the case he's costing us games.

[packerbacker1234]

Friend of mine speculates that Woodson is still sour about what big physical receivers are getting away with in the NFL after the Arizona game. Claims that Woodson said something before the season about how he intended to be just as physical. If this is the case he's costing us games.

Woodson isn't costing us games.


The lack of ability for our offense to score points is. He may be getting penalized, but bottom line is that the defense is doing a good job at keeping points off the board, while our offense likes to continue to go 3 and out most the game.

[MichiganPackerFan]

He's an aging corner. His best years are behind him. Love him and I hope he plays better. Maybe move him to safety?

[pbmax]

Friend of mine speculates that Woodson is still sour about what big physical receivers are getting away with in the NFL after the Arizona game. Claims that Woodson said something before the season about how he intended to be just as physical. If this is the case he's costing us games.

Woodson isn't costing us games.


The lack of ability for our offense to score points is. He may be getting penalized, but bottom line is that the defense is doing a good job at keeping points off the board, while our offense likes to continue to go 3 and out most the game.
I agree about the offense, but his penalties have kept drives alive at least four, possibly more times so far this season. Its costing them effort, field position and possession. If it was deep and prevented a TD, maybe that is one thing. But on 3rd and 8 when you or others can make a play, it hurts.

[Patler]

Friend of mine speculates that Woodson is still sour about what big physical receivers are getting away with in the NFL after the Arizona game. Claims that Woodson said something before the season about how he intended to be just as physical. If this is the case he's costing us games.

Woodson isn't costing us games.


The lack of ability for our offense to score points is. He may be getting penalized, but bottom line is that the defense is doing a good job at keeping points off the board, while our offense likes to continue to go 3 and out most the game.
I agree about the offense, but his penalties have kept drives alive at least four, possibly more times so far this season. Its costing them effort, field position and possession. If it was deep and prevented a TD, maybe that is one thing. But on 3rd and 8 when you or others can make a play, it hurts.

I agree. His penalties are one of the reasons the defense can't get off the field at times.

[mraynrand]

Woodson is a JAG at this point. He even gave up a thrid down completion because he came of his guy (and THE guy - Marshall), sneaking a peek in the backfield. Woodson is taking a lot of risks and he's been coming up on the short end time and time again. The coaches need to get to him and just have him be assignment sure for a while.

The Woodson Feast or Famine technique is starving the Packers to death.