Time for MM to go.

[wpony]

I have always been a MM supporter but he has had his time he it seems he is only a fair coach that can only bring a team to a certain point but no farther.
I said give him 5 years then I said give him longer because I seen progress but he hits a brick wall and cant seem to figure out how to knock it down or go around it he just stands at the bottom of it throwing footballs at it waiting for it to crack and the only thing cracking is the Packers,
They seem to be loosing there drive,there offense this year is going no where and MM is not changing his game plans enough to give them a chance our defense actually is not playing really bad right now but there is still room for improvement in the coaching. Special teams those 2 words should not even go together and that still goes right back to MMs smart move to release our punter right before the opening game for a punter we never even tried out DUHHH!!
over all MMM is a good coach to have on a team but not a head coach I say this would be a good time to start courting Bill Cowher

[bobblehead]

Am I wrong or is MM only in his 5th year now as Head Coach?

[packerbacker1234]

I have always been a MM supporter but he has had his time he it seems he is only a fair coach that can only bring a team to a certain point but no farther.
I said give him 5 years then I said give him longer because I seen progress but he hits a brick wall and cant seem to figure out how to knock it down or go around it he just stands at the bottom of it throwing footballs at it waiting for it to crack and the only thing cracking is the Packers,
They seem to be loosing there drive,there offense this year is going no where and MM is not changing his game plans enough to give them a chance our defense actually is not playing really bad right now but there is still room for improvement in the coaching. Special teams those 2 words should not even go together and that still goes right back to MMs smart move to release our punter right before the opening game for a punter we never even tried out DUHHH!!
over all MMM is a good coach to have on a team but not a head coach I say this would be a good time to start courting Bill Cowher

First off... man that was difficult to read.

A lot of people have been calling for MM's head lately. Honestly, I am willing to cut him some slack. Not just due to injuries, but due to previous success. In 2007 we where a Favre int away from going to the superbowl. QB transition year is an expected low time. How do we bounce back in 2009? 11-5 and playing in one of the most thrilling playoff games in recent memory, where a missed call may have cost us that game.

This year we're playing .500 football witha defense that was forced to start 3rd and 4th stringers for a few games, and where we lost the difference maker at TE in Finley. I'm not throwing in the towel on this year like some here, and I don't entirely blame MM for how things are going.

You can blame play calling all day, that is the easy way out of every situation. Or, you can look at it honestly and wonder "why the hell are the players not making plays".

Why did Driver drop 4 passes in one game? Why did JJ fumble the ball on a game winning drive to hand the game to the bears? Why is AR taking too long to make his second and third reads? Why can't we run the ball with Grant gone?

Of course, I think the run game is explainable. I know some people think we can run the ball, and I think the big reason BJack gets yards is because everyone thinks we are going to pass it all game... so the holes open up t he few times we do run. I think if we committed more to it (which we should anyways for PA passing) you will see how ineffective our run game is without a legit starting RB back there.

Anyways, I don't want MM fired yet. In fact, I am curious to see what happens this team. Team is decimated, were at .500 but still in the thick of a division race, and even if we lose this week not all hope is lost.

This is where we see if MM can turn the light switch on. Things were gloomy last season and stumbled to 4-4 and looked like a bad team. Then boom, signature win we had no business getting... 7-1 down the stretch.

I am content if we are at 4-4 again this season if that 4th win is the second half confidence boosting win the team needs.

[packerbacker1234]

I have always been a MM supporter but he has had his time he it seems he is only a fair coach that can only bring a team to a certain point but no farther.
I said give him 5 years then I said give him longer because I seen progress but he hits a brick wall and cant seem to figure out how to knock it down or go around it he just stands at the bottom of it throwing footballs at it waiting for it to crack and the only thing cracking is the Packers,
They seem to be loosing there drive,there offense this year is going no where and MM is not changing his game plans enough to give them a chance our defense actually is not playing really bad right now but there is still room for improvement in the coaching. Special teams those 2 words should not even go together and that still goes right back to MMs smart move to release our punter right before the opening game for a punter we never even tried out DUHHH!!
over all MMM is a good coach to have on a team but not a head coach I say this would be a good time to start courting Bill Cowher

First off... man that was difficult to read.

A lot of people have been calling for MM's head lately. Honestly, I am willing to cut him some slack. Not just due to injuries, but due to previous success. In 2007 we where a Favre int away from going to the superbowl. QB transition year is an expected low time. How do we bounce back in 2009? 11-5 and playing in one of the most thrilling playoff games in recent memory, where a missed call may have cost us that game.

This year we're playing .500 football witha defense that was forced to start 3rd and 4th stringers for a few games, and where we lost the difference maker at TE in Finley. I'm not throwing in the towel on this year like some here, and I don't entirely blame MM for how things are going.

You can blame play calling all day, that is the easy way out of every situation. Or, you can look at it honestly and wonder "why the hell are the players not making plays".

Why did Driver drop 4 passes in one game? Why did JJ fumble the ball on a game winning drive to hand the game to the bears? Why is AR taking too long to make his second and third reads? Why can't we run the ball with Grant gone?

Of course, I think the run game is explainable. I know some people think we can run the ball, and I think the big reason BJack gets yards is because everyone thinks we are going to pass it all game... so the holes open up t he few times we do run. I think if we committed more to it (which we should anyways for PA passing) you will see how ineffective our run game is without a legit starting RB back there.

Anyways, I don't want MM fired yet. In fact, I am curious to see what happens this team. Team is decimated, were at .500 but still in the thick of a division race, and even if we lose this week not all hope is lost.

This is where we see if MM can turn the light switch on. Things were gloomy last season and stumbled to 4-4 and looked like a bad team. Then boom, signature win we had no business getting... 7-1 down the stretch.

I am content if we are at 4-4 again this season if that 4th win is the second half confidence boosting win the team needs.

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

I have wanted him gone since 08, way before anyone else. I started a thread expressing my displeasure then and my stance hasn't changed. If they don't fire him then I think the team needs to hire an offensive coordinator. He may have too much at his plate.

[Tarlam!]

over all MMM is a good coach to have on a team but not a head coach I say this would be a good time to start courting Bill Cowher

Cowher was hired by the Steelers to become the 15 head coach on January 21st, 1992-

He won a SB ring in February 2006. True, the Steelers won the conference game and played February football in 1996.

But y'know what? If the hillbilly doens't throw an INT against the Giants, so does McCarthy.

[Tarlam!]

Wasn't M3 named NFL Coach of the Year once?

[sheepshead]

I have wanted him gone since 08, way before anyone else. I started a thread expressing my displeasure then and my stance hasn't changed. If they don't fire him then I think the team needs to hire an offensive coordinator. He may have too much at his plate.

I have never been sold on the guy. ever. With chucky and the chin wanting back in I am almost ready for a melt down this season and a coaching change. He gets out coached by many of the leagues best coaches. Lovie Smith included.

[ThunderDan]

I have wanted him gone since 08, way before anyone else. I started a thread expressing my displeasure then and my stance hasn't changed. If they don't fire him then I think the team needs to hire an offensive coordinator. He may have too much at his plate.

I have never been sold on the guy. ever. With chucky and the chin wanting back in I am almost ready for a melt down this season and a coaching change. He gets out coached by many of the leagues best coaches. Lovie Smith included.

Cowher has stated that he wants full control and that isn't going to happen in GB. He will most likely go to Carolina if he wants to coach again.

[Tarlam!]

I've always been an M3 supporter, but my main criticism isn't the way the Offense is currently playing or losing 3 games by a few points or being 1-5 in OT games.

It is how the OL, P and ST are playing. He should have replaced Campen and Slocum at the latest after the Cards loss, because of the way those units played and how the Punter siuation was handled last season.

Should that be enough to get him fired based upon his overall record and considering the amount of starters the team lost this season? No, IMHO. He got a less talented team to an NFCCG at Lambeau that should have won.

But, if he can't reach the players anymore, then he needs to go. Coughlin was under enormous pressure in NY and the players rallied and played for him. The Packers must know their coach is under huge pressure, too. If they come out and put on a show for M§, that's the best endorsement that he should continue on possible.

[swede]

I've always been an M3 supporter, but my main criticism isn't the way the Offense is currently playing or losing 3 games by a few points or being 1-5 in OT games.

It is how the OL, P and ST are playing. He should have replaced Campen and Slocum at the latest after the Cards loss, because of the way those units played and how the Punter siuation was handled last season.

Should that be enough to get him fired based upon his overall record and considering the amount of starters the team lost this season? No, IMHO. He got a less talented team to an NFCCG at Lambeau that should have won.

But, if he can't reach the players anymore, then he needs to go. Coughlin was under enormous pressure in NY and the players rallied and played for him. The Packers must know their coach is under huge pressure, too. If they come out and put on a show for M§, that's the best endorsement that he should continue on possible.

Great post, Tar.

That's mostly how I see it.

I do think a little pressure is warranted. He is not coach for life. His office is ready for the next guy if he can't overcome the issues that keep his team from winning.

[Freak Out]

I've always been an M3 supporter, but my main criticism isn't the way the Offense is currently playing or losing 3 games by a few points or being 1-5 in OT games.

It is how the OL, P and ST are playing. He should have replaced Campen and Slocum at the latest after the Cards loss, because of the way those units played and how the Punter siuation was handled last season.

Should that be enough to get him fired based upon his overall record and considering the amount of starters the team lost this season? No, IMHO. He got a less talented team to an NFCCG at Lambeau that should have won.

But, if he can't reach the players anymore, then he needs to go. Coughlin was under enormous pressure in NY and the players rallied and played for him. The Packers must know their coach is under huge pressure, too. If they come out and put on a show for M§, that's the best endorsement that he should continue on possible.

Great post, Tar.

That's mostly how I see it.

I do think a little pressure is warranted. He is not coach for life. His office is ready for the next guy if he can't overcome the issues that keep his team from winning.

Hell....the Dom should have been replaced as well then considering the D got worked like skank in the AZ game. :wink:

Campen and Slocum have both proven they need to be shown the door and M3 is nearing that point himself...if this offense doesn't get it together with the talent it has he has to answer for it ....even without a Grant or Finely in the lineup

[mmmdk]

I've never endorsed McCarthy - never! McCarthy put a lid on me in 2007 but McCarthy hasn't "disapointed" me lately as his ineptness returned faster than a jet set Favre voicemail.

Packers are the Schalke 04 of the NFL with NFC North crown as the highest trophy...unless... 8-) U know who must go!

[Noodle]

Interesting reference to Coughlin, Tar. The players did rally around him, but that's because Coughlin changed his MO big time -- stopped being such a prick and started treating his players like men.

So, going with the Coughlin comparison, which I like, I want to see him change a little, primarily by firing Campen & Slocum and perhaps even hiring an OC to bring in some new ideas for the O.

He's still learning the job, or at least he should be. And part of that learning needs to include a recognition that you don't stick with guys who have proved time and again and again they can't get it done. Including himself as OC.

[mmmdk]

Interesting reference to Coughlin, Tar. The players did rally around him, but that's because Coughlin changed his MO big time -- stopped being such a prick and started treating his players like men.

So, going with the Coughlin comparison, which I like, I want to see him change a little, primarily by firing Campen & Slocum and perhaps even hiring an OC to bring in some new ideas for the O.

He's still learning the job, or at least he should be. And part of that learning needs to include a recognition that you don't stick with guys who have proved time and again and again they can't get it done. Including himself as OC.

Interesting indeed & fine posts but I think Noodle's observations on McCarthy is the nail in the coffin on the matter; McCarthy won't change or even learn from it all.

Lastly, I can't see the players rally around McCarthy - you rarely (if ever?) hear players praise McCarthy. Kevin Greene on the other hand gets loads of praise from super star Clay Matthews. This team, Packers, would rally under a true leader, not McCarthy.

[sheepshead]

Interesting reference to Coughlin, Tar. The players did rally around him, but that's because Coughlin changed his MO big time -- stopped being such a prick and started treating his players like men.

So, going with the Coughlin comparison, which I like, I want to see him change a little, primarily by firing Campen & Slocum and perhaps even hiring an OC to bring in some new ideas for the O.

He's still learning the job, or at least he should be. And part of that learning needs to include a recognition that you don't stick with guys who have proved time and again and again they can't get it done. Including himself as OC.

Interesting indeed & fine posts but I think Noodle's observations on McCarthy is the nail in the coffin on the matter; McCarthy won't change or even learn from it all.

Lastly, I can't see the players rally around McCarthy - you rarely (if ever?) hear players praise McCarthy. Kevin Greene on the other hand gets loads of praise from super star Clay Matthews. This team, Packers, would rally under a true leader, not McCarthy.

Interesting point. I have my own list - this just got added.

[Brandon494]

Can't really blame MM when the guys who are suppose to win you games have been making mental errors. Rodgers with the INTs, Driver with the drop passes, and Woodson with the penalties.

[falco]

Can't really blame MM when the guys who are suppose to win you games have been making mental errors. Rodgers with the INTs, Driver with the drop passes, and Woodson with the penalties.

I'm not saying MM is the answer, but I'm not sure we are guaranteed to get somebody better than him. And the transition to a new coach isn't exactly seamless...

[bobblehead]

Of course, I think the run game is explainable. I know some people think we can run the ball, and I think the big reason BJack gets yards is because everyone thinks we are going to pass it all game... so the holes open up t he few times we do run. I think if we committed more to it (which we should anyways for PA passing) you will see how ineffective our run game is without a legit starting RB back there.


We have been running the ball in the most predictable situations (1st down) from the most predictable formation (the I) and still having success.

You can speculate that we are merely "lucky" when we run successfully as much as I can speculate that recievers have run over 300 wrong routes in BF's career. I'm a results oriented person. We are running successfully. We should try to run it more to prove that its pure luck.

[bobblehead]

But y'know what? If the hillbilly doens't throw an INT against the Giants, so does McCarthy.

As someone who has blamed the refs for a lot lately I would like to say we would not have even been in that game if the zebras weren't our 12th man. We got our a$$ kicked all over the field in that game....we definately didn't deserve to win.

[packerbacker1234]

But y'know what? If the hillbilly doens't throw an INT against the Giants, so does McCarthy.

As someone who has blamed the refs for a lot lately I would like to say we would not have even been in that game if the zebras weren't our 12th man. We got our a$$ kicked all over the field in that game....we definately didn't deserve to win.

Forget the refs - what about the giants missing two fgs in regulation, including a game winning attempt at the end, from GIMME distances?

[mmmdk]

Lack of McCarthy 2nd half adjustments; The Packers did not score a touchdown on the first drive of the second half all of 2008, part of a 34-game span without a TD on the first possession after halftime that started late in 2007 and ran all the way until Week 16 vs. Seattle last season.

[Tarlam!]

M3 is famous for saying things like the character of the team will be demonstrated by how they handle success. Well, last year they finished 7-1 coming into this season as SB aspirants.

Clearly, they have issues with handling success and now find themselves in an adverse position. Well, let's see how they handle adversity.

It's painfully obvious how some fans handle the team's adversity.

[wpony]

I am the one that started this thread I am sorry I am not eloquent like most of you out there but with my disability's and my medications to get me through the days I dare to say most of you might have trouble getting straight to the point also.
MM has had A great year then all the other teams had him figured out now we have a simple minded coach that almost any coach in the league can figure out after they have met a few times, worse yet a coach that the team quits on a coach can get away with alot but once the players give up on the coach its over the injuries sky rocket, you loose close games, everything just seems to fall apart , just look at this yr as a perfect example of that.
I love the Pack I will be rooting for them no matter what but I am starting to feel like I did back in he 70s Go pack Go , Please at least make it look good

[Tarlam!]

Well, wpony, FWIW I wish you'd post more often. I think you get your points across very well. Sorry to here you need to take so many meds. Hope you get well at some point, it sounds like a long term deal, huh.

Maybe you're right and M3 has become transparent. Interestingly, out of the last 6 games, the Packers seem to have trouble in the second half, except the WAS game. That leads me to believe a couple of things, not necessarily associated with transparency.

[bobblehead]

Lack of McCarthy 2nd half adjustments; The Packers did not score a touchdown on the first drive of the second half all of 2008, part of a 34-game span without a TD on the first possession after halftime that started late in 2007 and ran all the way until Week 16 vs. Seattle last season.

Thats what I call a "damn statistic". You have to look at the second half as a whole to judge his halftime adjustments. The entire body of work is more important than a cherry picked stat.

Many factors can lead to not scoring on initial drives in the second half.

Overall, MM has lead us to high powered high scoring offenses. We struggle to run (and call the run) early every season. I am not condemning anyone until after the playoffs this year. By week 17 we should (I hope) have a relatively healthy defense and an offense that is fuguring out how to score with what we have. If we bone up and embarrass ourselves in the playoffs, or piss on ourselves the rest of the season then I'll condemn MM. Until then though, I'm not making any rash decisions.

[Freak Out]

I am the one that started this thread I am sorry I am not eloquent like most of you out there but with my disability's and my medications to get me through the days I dare to say most of you might have trouble getting straight to the point also.
MM has had A great year then all the other teams had him figured out now we have a simple minded coach that almost any coach in the league can figure out after they have met a few times, worse yet a coach that the team quits on a coach can get away with alot but once the players give up on the coach its over the injuries sky rocket, you loose close games, everything just seems to fall apart , just look at this yr as a perfect example of that.
I love the Pack I will be rooting for them no matter what but I am starting to feel like I did back in he 70s Go pack Go , Please at least make it look good

Dude.....don't worry about it.

[mmmdk]

Lack of McCarthy 2nd half adjustments; The Packers did not score a touchdown on the first drive of the second half all of 2008, part of a 34-game span without a TD on the first possession after halftime that started late in 2007 and ran all the way until Week 16 vs. Seattle last season.

Thats what I call a "damn statistic". You have to look at the second half as a whole to judge his halftime adjustments. The entire body of work is more important than a cherry picked stat.

Many factors can lead to not scoring on initial drives in the second half.

Overall, MM has lead us to high powered high scoring offenses. We struggle to run (and call the run) early every season. I am not condemning anyone until after the playoffs this year. By week 17 we should (I hope) have a relatively healthy defense and an offense that is fuguring out how to score with what we have. If we bone up and embarrass ourselves in the playoffs, or piss on ourselves the rest of the season then I'll condemn MM. Until then though, I'm not making any rash decisions.

You're damn right! :lol: Basically it's a gut feeling I have; that McCarthy must go but I won't beat around the bush 'cos I will use stats, or other, in my crusade vs McCarthy.

[mmmdk]

M3 is famous for saying things like the character of the team will be demonstrated by how they handle success. Well, last year they finished 7-1 coming into this season as SB aspirants.

Clearly, they have issues with handling success and now find themselves in an adverse position. Well, let's see how they handle adversity.

It's painfully obvious how some fans handle the team's adversity.

I second that emotion; keep posting wpony.

[Fritz]

I am the one that started this thread I am sorry I am not eloquent like most of you out there but with my disability's and my medications to get me through the days I dare to say most of you might have trouble getting straight to the point also.
MM has had A great year then all the other teams had him figured out now we have a simple minded coach that almost any coach in the league can figure out after they have met a few times, worse yet a coach that the team quits on a coach can get away with alot but once the players give up on the coach its over the injuries sky rocket, you loose close games, everything just seems to fall apart , just look at this yr as a perfect example of that.
I love the Pack I will be rooting for them no matter what but I am starting to feel like I did back in he 70s Go pack Go , Please at least make it look good

Dude, Cleft Crusty is one of our most beloved and favorite posters, and he is well known for being well medicated and well lubricated. So you just rock right on!