Week 7 Winners and Losers

[3irty1]

Winners:

Clifton. This is a no-brainer. Clifton was very effective at neutralizing Jared Allen other than the careless interception intended for Dimitri Nance on a screen. Clifton is a true dancing bear and can handcuff a pass rusher unlike anybody else on the team.

Bulaga. Held down his side of the line. Fella looks like a player and did a great job of walling off the hold with Sitton on some of our effective running plays.

Sitton. Kept up his high level of play. A real mauler in the run game, something we'd be really one-dimensional without.

Pat Lee. I think I like him on returns.

GJ/JJ. These two almost missed the winners list because of all the 15 yard back shoulder comebacks where they weren't on the same page with AR. They could just as well be AR's fault though. JJ stepped up big and I look for him to continue on this line.

Donald Lee. Remember that with Favre this guy broke out as a TE. Him an AR never built the same relationship. Today he was great in all aspects of the game.

Jackson. I didn't see a single zone read play all day and this was obviously in an effort to reduce Jackson's suck. It worked, he looked like a real running back.

BISHOP!!!!!!!!!! I laughed too at his shenanigans the past two years trying to get on the field but he was been without a doubt the best MLB on the team. Not a 2-down linebacker. Made numerous plays in coverage and stayed assignment sure playing downhill as well. Laid some nasty hits that the Packers have been missing.

Hawk. I honest feel we've got the best two inside linebackers starting for us right now and that's not a knock on Barnett or Chillar. These guys compliment each other and just play smart.

Raji. Don't think he left the field yesterday. Its official that he's impossible to push backwards. Great effort in pursuit to chase down the old man and mess up their final 3rd down attempt.

Nick Collins. This guy is a rare rare athlete. Could be the most physically gifted player in a packers uniform.

Woodson. Didn't get penalized. That's good enough for me.

Tramon. Woodson deserves credit too but they kept Randy Moss relatively quiet. Not easy concerning the pass rush at times.

Brad Jones. Had his best game of the season. Held up at the point of attack and got in there to mangle Favre's ankle which seemed like a turning point.

Jarius Wynn. I've always liked this guy for his passrush. Yesterday he showed his worth recording his first NFL sack in timely fashion on the Vikings final drive. The coaching staff must hate his run defense though, TJ Lang was playing on the DL instead of him in short yardage situations.

Losers:

Colledge. Penalties, and whiffed on an important block of Pat Williams. How does Pat Williams get by you?

Quarless. I know he "caught" a TD pass but he also fell down on a trick 4th down play that frankly made MM look pretty dumb for calling it in the first place.

A-Rod? Maybe. He probably played his best game of the year but didn't bury the queens in the 4th quarter when he had two chances. Careless int to JA. The next one wasn't as bad as the announcers would have you believe. GJ was waving for the ball, it was only intercepted on the tip. I don't fault A-Rod with trusting GJ to make a wow play there. Would have been 1-12 in close games had the D not bailed him out! Really shows how dumb that stat is.

Peprah. Bit hard on some misdirection plays. It'll be nice to have Bigby back although I must admit that Peprah is everything you want in a backup.

NBC. Didn't tell me about Pickett or Jenkins. Stupid insight on all the questionable plays that were overturned by zebras.

MM? I mean he won and the offense woke up. And he won a bunch of challenges. But I don't like the 4th down calls. The 4th and 7 fake field goal just doesn't seem like smart football. The other two 4th downs were unimpressive play calls. The timeout at the end of the first half I have a problem with as well. I think you let the queens run out the clock there.

[pbmax]

If we are talking the Pat Williams whiff near the goal line, that was Wells completely being overrun. Not sure if there was another Fat Pat play you saw.

[pack4to84]

I have to put Capers in the winners bracket for coming up with the idea to put Bishop on Moss. Capers knew that Moss takes off plays so he put a LB on him with safety help. So if Moss did take a play off the D wasn't wasting a CB on a WR that wasn't doing anything. Sure enough on the Bishop INT for a TD. Moss walked off the line with Bishop guarding him Favre saw the miss match while getting pressure threw it too Moss. Moss never turned around, INT.

Another one MM stealing the TE screen from the Lions. That looks good in green and gold.

[Joemailman]

I would add C.J. Wilson. Made some plays against the run, and had key pressure on an INT.

I disagree on the fake field goal. I thought it was a good call. That would have been a 54 yard field goal attempt. It's not MM's fault that Quarless inexplicably fell down as the ball got there.

[pbmax]

I have to put Capers in the winners bracket for coming up with the idea to put Bishop on Moss. Capers knew that Moss takes off plays so he put a LB on him with safety help. So if Moss did take a play off the D wasn't wasting a CB on a WR that wasn't doing anything. Sure enough on the Bishop INT for a TD. Moss walked off the line with Bishop guarding him Favre saw the miss match while getting pressure threw it too Moss. Moss never turned around, INT.

Another one MM stealing the TE screen from the Lions. That looks good in green and gold.
Hawk's contract might not force him to leave next year, but Bishop could. He would need to switch ILB spots if Barnett comes back though.

[steve823]

NBC. Didn't tell me about Pickett or Jenkins.

I agree with this. They didn't update the status about them or anything Having both of them back is huge because next week we are playing the Jets who will run it down our throats if we don't have them.

[denverYooper]

I would add C.J. Wilson. Made some plays against the run, and had key pressure on an INT.

I disagree on the fake field goal. I thought it was a good call. That would have been a 54 yard field goal attempt. It's not MM's fault that Quarless inexplicably fell down as the ball got there.

I also liked the call there. If Quarless doesn't slip, that's a backbreaker.

MM said in his presser that they'd been practicing that with Finley for about a year and a half before he got injured and Quarless has been running it for about 2 weeks now. It sucked that he fell down but he's not the only one who slipped yesterday.

[channtheman]

I liked the fake field goal call. Everything was perfect except Quarless. I did not like MM calling TO at the end of the half. MM has done this before and it NEVER works out for the Packers. Thank God Chilly was too stupid to take advantage. Both 4th down calls were lame brain typical MM "We are gonna stuff it to them!" even though we are NOT a power running team. I liked the FB dive but it seems teams have caught on. It doesn't work very well anymore. Also, MM whiffed on not challenging Jennings clear first down catch, we went for it on 4th down and failed. At that point, I thought we were going to lose the game, and we nearly did.

[denverYooper]

...
Losers:
...
MM? I mean he won and the offense woke up. And he won a bunch of challenges. But I don't like the 4th down calls. The 4th and 7 fake field goal just doesn't seem like smart football. The other two 4th downs were unimpressive play calls. The timeout at the end of the first half I have a problem with as well. I think you let the queens run out the clock there.

Agree with a lot of what you said 3irty1, but I thought MM called a pretty good game yesterday. He ran a great mix of runs, screens, and slants against a good D. The only call that sticks out as kind of pigheaded was Kuhn's second 4th and 1 run, although if they gave him the Peterson "he's still going" whistle he might get that. Still, I hated that call there. Other than that, the offense looked to have better rhythm and I feel that M3 had a lot to do with that.

[denverYooper]

I did not like MM calling TO at the end of the half. MM has done this before and it NEVER works out for the Packers. Thank God Chilly was too stupid to take advantage. Both 4th down calls were lame brain typical MM "We are gonna stuff it to them!" even though we are NOT a power running team. I liked the FB dive but it seems teams have caught on. It doesn't work very well anymore. Also, MM whiffed on not challenging Jennings clear first down catch, we went for it on 4th down and failed. At that point, I thought we were going to lose the game, and we nearly did.

Forgot about the timeout. Yeah, that was kinda dumb.

[Brandon494]

So Hawk is a winner because he had an INT gift wrapped to him? The guy was missing tackles all night on AP and everytime he did make a tackle he got pushed back atleast 3 yards.

[ThunderDan]

A lot of those guys on your studs list were 1 play wonders.

Collins made a great INT but bit on play fakes and allowed the long completion that people were mad at Woodson about. A CB cannot play both sides of a WR and BF threw it to the side were Woodson couldn't get to.

I thought Peprah played OK, he made a couple of mistakes and he also sniffed out the bubble screen in the 1st Q and stopped the Vikes from a first down.

Bishop and CJ Wilson would be my D studs.

I liked what I saw out of the O but I would mostly give the studs to Clifton, Sitton and Bulaga.

I really can't think of 1 Packer who laid a big egg last night.

[ThunderDan]

So Hawk is a winner because he had an INT gift wrapped to him? The guy was missing tackles all night on AP and everytime he did make a tackle he got pushed back atleast 3 yards.

OK we get it you dislike Hawk!

Hawk had 11 tackles and an INT. That's pretty active and around the ball. If Hawk's INT was gift wrapped than Bishop's right in his belly was also. I didn't think Hawk was a stud this week but he is the leading tackler on the team and basically sat out week 1.

Hawk has 60 tackles thru 7 games. He is on a 135+ tackle clip.

[pbmax]

So Hawk is a winner because he had an INT gift wrapped to him? The guy was missing tackles all night on AP and everytime he did make a tackle he got pushed back atleast 3 yards.
That last one was Herrera and AP combined. Al and Chris acted like it was all Purple Jesus. Herrera had AJ engaged and up high, Peterson was able to drive into him with leverage. Hawk hung on and let help arrive. No problem with that play.

[3irty1]

I would add C.J. Wilson. Made some plays against the run, and had key pressure on an INT.

I disagree on the fake field goal. I thought it was a good call. That would have been a 54 yard field goal attempt. It's not MM's fault that Quarless inexplicably fell down as the ball got there.

MM obviously had a lot of faith in the play. The play was enough for me to drop Quarless onto the losers list. I would have preferred a coffin corner punt but MM obviously didn't have much faith in our current punter. Did we even punt once yesterday? Says a lot if you're scheming around your punter.




...
Losers:
...
MM? I mean he won and the offense woke up. And he won a bunch of challenges. But I don't like the 4th down calls. The 4th and 7 fake field goal just doesn't seem like smart football. The other two 4th downs were unimpressive play calls. The timeout at the end of the first half I have a problem with as well. I think you let the queens run out the clock there.

Agree with a lot of what you said 3irty1, but I thought MM called a pretty good game yesterday. He ran a great mix of runs, screens, and slants against a good D. The only call that sticks out as kind of pigheaded was Kuhn's second 4th and 1 run, although if they gave him the Peterson "he's still going" whistle he might get that. Still, I hated that call there. Other than that, the offense looked to have better rhythm and I feel that M3 had a lot to do with that.

He usually does call a good game IMO. Yesterday was no exception, I agree.


So Hawk is a winner because he had an INT gift wrapped to him? The guy was missing tackles all night on AP and everytime he did make a tackle he got pushed back atleast 3 yards.

He led the team in tackles and offered above average resistance to a rushing attack that should have buried us. Saw him draw attention from both McKinney and Hutchinson on plays yesterday. Like I said I think he's a better all around linebacker than Chillar. I hope they can figure out a way to resign him.

[pbmax]

Winner - McCarthy. Best effort in a month. Had 3rd down working again and introduced a screen pass attack that worked against a team it SHOULD work against. He adjusted the offense 2 weeks early this year. It was not clear they missed Finley in this game until late. Good for him.

Now if he can just get Rodgers and his receivers reacquainted, they'll be set.

[SkinBasket]

Now if he can just get Rodgers and his receivers reacquainted, they'll be set.

Jesus. I had forgotten about that. Talk about looking downright retarded last night.

Anyway... I would have left Clifton off both lists. Allen didn't present the same challenge he has in the past, and while some of that was decent protection by Clifton, I think Allen wasn't playing well. Clifton's failure to engage him when he was holding the corner allowed Allen to grab that INT and knock down a pass later in the game. Overall, acceptable effort with some flaws.

[RashanGary]

It seems Rodgers is the one adjusting. He was unloading quick, even if it wasn't perfect and sometimes it was just bad. . . . But he got rid of it and it worked a lot too. . .


Now, they just need to get on the same page, like pb said, and they'll be on their way to pretty good.


We need to get healthy on the DL. The Jets game will be brutal with just the guys we have.

[Joemailman]

Skin hinted at something I'd been wondering about. On the intercepted screen, is Clifton supposed to cut the DE so he's not in a position to grab the pass?

[Cheesehead Craig]

Skin hinted at something I'd been wondering about. On the intercepted screen, is Clifton supposed to cut the DE so he's not in a position to grab the pass?
I think that Clifton was so used to Allen trying to rush the passer with speed on the outside that he likely anticipated him running himself out of the play. That didn't happen.

Jared Allen has fallen so far so fast this year that it's being fairly widely speculated that he was juicing and stopped using this season.

[3irty1]

I'd chuck it up to a heads up play by Allen/tarded play by A-Rod. Can't blame Clifton for something he shouldn't see coming. I agree with skin that Jared Allen is a bum this year but seeing as how we sent him to the probowl last year its tough not to give Clifton props.

I also agree with JH that A-Rod was the difference last night. He trusted his protection against a team we historically blow against. He stepped up in the pocket instead of shitting down his leg. Sharpest he's looked in a while despite the stupid ints.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I'd give Capers a winner tag as well. He didn't just try and blitz the hell out of Favre all night. He sat back and let Favre beat himself (he he). The old addage that Favre will give you one or two shots at a pick have multiplied to 4-5. Great move.

[Fritz]

I liked the fake field goal call. Everything was perfect except Quarless. I did not like MM calling TO at the end of the half. MM has done this before and it NEVER works out for the Packers. Thank God Chilly was too stupid to take advantage. Both 4th down calls were lame brain typical MM "We are gonna stuff it to them!" even though we are NOT a power running team. I liked the FB dive but it seems teams have caught on. It doesn't work very well anymore. Also, MM whiffed on not challenging Jennings clear first down catch, we went for it on 4th down and failed. At that point, I thought we were going to lose the game, and we nearly did.

I like the going for it on fourth down, and I liked the fake field goal. But the calls - the fullback dive - sucked. It hadn't worked before and it was a dumb call on fourth down.

But I did like the lack of penalties last night, and the receivers hanging on to the ball. Two positive developments.

And I am concerned for next week if Pickett and Jenkins can't play. How bad are their injuries? Does anyone know?

[3irty1]

I'd give Capers a winner tag as well. He didn't just try and blitz the hell out of Favre all night. He sat back and let Favre beat himself (he he). The old addage that Favre will give you one or two shots at a pick have multiplied to 4-5. Great move.

I'm equally sick of the three man rush on 3rd and long as I am of the 15 yard back shoulder comeback routes along the sidelines.

[Joemailman]

I liked the fake field goal call. Everything was perfect except Quarless. I did not like MM calling TO at the end of the half. MM has done this before and it NEVER works out for the Packers. Thank God Chilly was too stupid to take advantage. Both 4th down calls were lame brain typical MM "We are gonna stuff it to them!" even though we are NOT a power running team. I liked the FB dive but it seems teams have caught on. It doesn't work very well anymore. Also, MM whiffed on not challenging Jennings clear first down catch, we went for it on 4th down and failed. At that point, I thought we were going to lose the game, and we nearly did.

I like the going for it on fourth down, and I liked the fake field goal. But the calls - the fullback dive - sucked. It hadn't worked before and it was a dumb call on fourth down.

But I did like the lack of penalties last night, and the receivers hanging on to the ball. Two positive developments.

And I am concerned for next week if Pickett and Jenkins can't play. How bad are their injuries? Does anyone know?

Mm said Jenkins will be questionable this week. Don't know about Pickett, but I believe his aggravated his previous ankle injury.

[red]

I liked the fake field goal call. Everything was perfect except Quarless. I did not like MM calling TO at the end of the half. MM has done this before and it NEVER works out for the Packers. Thank God Chilly was too stupid to take advantage. Both 4th down calls were lame brain typical MM "We are gonna stuff it to them!" even though we are NOT a power running team. I liked the FB dive but it seems teams have caught on. It doesn't work very well anymore. Also, MM whiffed on not challenging Jennings clear first down catch, we went for it on 4th down and failed. At that point, I thought we were going to lose the game, and we nearly did.

I like the going for it on fourth down, and I liked the fake field goal. But the calls - the fullback dive - sucked. It hadn't worked before and it was a dumb call on fourth down.

But I did like the lack of penalties last night, and the receivers hanging on to the ball. Two positive developments.

And I am concerned for next week if Pickett and Jenkins can't play. How bad are their injuries? Does anyone know?

great point, what the hell dp we do if those 2 can't go next week. we sure as hell can't just suit up 3 linemen and force those poor bastards to play the whole game agin like they had to do last night. we would have to sign someone which means we have to cut someon

but i don't know of any players we can afford to cut at this point

we're just a mess because of injuries this year

[get louder at lambeau]

So Hawk is a winner because he had an INT gift wrapped to him? The guy was missing tackles all night on AP and everytime he did make a tackle he got pushed back atleast 3 yards.

OK we get it you dislike Hawk!

Hawk had 11 tackles and an INT. That's pretty active and around the ball. If Hawk's INT was gift wrapped than Bishop's right in his belly was also. I didn't think Hawk was a stud this week but he is the leading tackler on the team and basically sat out week 1.

Hawk has 60 tackles thru 7 games. He is on a 135+ tackle clip.

A.J. just keeps getting lucky I guess, because he is tied for #1 in the NFL among all LBs in INTs from the start of last season until the present. Too bad he never makes any plays.

[ThunderDan]

I liked the fake field goal call. Everything was perfect except Quarless. I did not like MM calling TO at the end of the half. MM has done this before and it NEVER works out for the Packers. Thank God Chilly was too stupid to take advantage. Both 4th down calls were lame brain typical MM "We are gonna stuff it to them!" even though we are NOT a power running team. I liked the FB dive but it seems teams have caught on. It doesn't work very well anymore. Also, MM whiffed on not challenging Jennings clear first down catch, we went for it on 4th down and failed. At that point, I thought we were going to lose the game, and we nearly did.

I like the going for it on fourth down, and I liked the fake field goal. But the calls - the fullback dive - sucked. It hadn't worked before and it was a dumb call on fourth down.

But I did like the lack of penalties last night, and the receivers hanging on to the ball. Two positive developments.

And I am concerned for next week if Pickett and Jenkins can't play. How bad are their injuries? Does anyone know?

great point, what the hell dp we do if those 2 can't go next week. we sure as hell can't just suit up 3 linemen and force those poor bastards to play the whole game agin like they had to do last night. we would have to sign someone which means we have to cut someon

but i don't know of any players we can afford to cut at this point

we're just a mess because of injuries this year

Well Neal and Poppinga went on the IR today so we have 2 roster spots open at the monent.

[mmmdk]

Winner - McCarthy. Best effort in a month. Had 3rd down working again and introduced a screen pass attack that worked against a team it SHOULD work against. He adjusted the offense 2 weeks early this year. It was not clear they missed Finley in this game until late. Good for him.

Now if he can just get Rodgers and his receivers reacquainted, they'll be set.

I agree to some extend but calling McCarthy a winner is a stretch; a survivor is more fitting. No red flag on back to back plays, 4th down run plays that sucked ass and lastly "the deer in headlights" play calling when we were up 28-17. I may expect too much?

[get louder at lambeau]

Losers:
Peprah. Bit hard on some misdirection plays. It'll be nice to have Bigby back although I must admit that Peprah is everything you want in a backup.

Just a little note in his defense- The nice pass breakup on Harvin on 3rd and 5 with 1:51 left in the 4th quarter was #26, not #36. The announcers got it wrong. Great play by Peprah.

4:40 mark in this highlight video-
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81b98f5f/GameDay-Vikings-vs-Packers-highlights

[mmmdk]

A lot of great posts on winners etc. but I'd like to say just this:

WILSON :pack:

[steve823]

Skin hinted at something I'd been wondering about. On the intercepted screen, is Clifton supposed to cut the DE so he's not in a position to grab the pass?
I think that Clifton was so used to Allen trying to rush the passer with speed on the outside that he likely anticipated him running himself out of the play. That didn't happen.

Jared Allen has fallen so far so fast this year that it's being fairly widely speculated that he was juicing and stopped using this season.

Here's a great article that shows how far Allen has fallen.

http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2010/10/22/stories-of-the-season-jared-allen/

Bulaga had a harder assignment to block Edwards since he's been playing better this year. Bulalga had some help ,but played great. It's hard to see Tauscher come back into the starting lineup IMO.

[pbmax]

Winner: Mike Trgovac.

No matter who he sees in meetings on Monday, its a lock one of them will be hurt by Sunday. Doesn't matter, the guys keep filling in well. Each of the backups has some holes, but Neal, Wilson and even Wynn seem to keep playing hard and get better as they go along.

[pbmax]

I'd give Capers a winner tag as well. He didn't just try and blitz the hell out of Favre all night. He sat back and let Favre beat himself (he he). The old addage that Favre will give you one or two shots at a pick have multiplied to 4-5. Great move.

I'm equally sick of the three man rush on 3rd and long as I am of the 15 yard back shoulder comeback routes along the sidelines.
Hold on guys. Yes there were three man rushes, but that was in 2nd (or 3rd) and ridiculous for the most part. More to the point was that he only had D line personnel to run nickel as his base D, otherwise each lineman would have been out for most snaps. As it was ZOMBO! was playing DE.

I thought Capers did a good job of continuing to send pressure with more than four well into the second half. But those rushers had a lot of trouble getting home. On the last drive, Capers sent five and backed Raji up into short middle coverage. No one got close to Brett. He was more aggressive than in last year's games against Pitt/AZ/Brett.

They will really miss Jenkins, Pickett and Neal.

[pbmax]

Losers:
Peprah. Bit hard on some misdirection plays. It'll be nice to have Bigby back although I must admit that Peprah is everything you want in a backup.

Just a little note in his defense- The nice pass breakup on Harvin on 3rd and 5 with 1:51 left in the 4th quarter was #26, not #36. The announcers got it wrong. Great play by Peprah.

4:40 mark in this highlight video-
http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81b98f5f/GameDay-Vikings-vs-Packers-highlights
Peprah has been the 3rd best safety of the Thompson era (Burnett doesn't qualify for my completely arbitrary rankings) and you are exactly right. You could not count on a better backup performance.

[pbmax]

I'd chuck it up to a heads up play by Allen/tarded play by A-Rod. Can't blame Clifton for something he shouldn't see coming. I agree with skin that Jared Allen is a bum this year but seeing as how we sent him to the probowl last year its tough not to give Clifton props.

I also agree with JH that A-Rod was the difference last night. He trusted his protection against a team we historically blow against. He stepped up in the pocket instead of shitting down his leg. Sharpest he's looked in a while despite the stupid ints.
Under the old screen system of Beightol, Allen would be picking up his kneecaps off the turf after Cliffy chopped him low. I am not sure Clifton can still make that block.

[get louder at lambeau]

I'd chuck it up to a heads up play by Allen/tarded play by A-Rod. Can't blame Clifton for something he shouldn't see coming. I agree with skin that Jared Allen is a bum this year but seeing as how we sent him to the probowl last year its tough not to give Clifton props.

I also agree with JH that A-Rod was the difference last night. He trusted his protection against a team we historically blow against. He stepped up in the pocket instead of shitting down his leg. Sharpest he's looked in a while despite the stupid ints.
Under the old screen system of Beightol, Allen would be picking up his kneecaps off the turf after Cliffy chopped him low. I am not sure Clifton can still make that block.

If Clifton and Allen are both on the ground from a chop block, I wouldn't bet on Allen being the one picking up his kneecaps off the turf.

[Fritz]

I think Cliffy drops his kneecaps just jogging to the huddle any more.

[Little Whiskey]

biggest loser of the night was my local television network. those bastards broke into the game for almost a 1.5 quarters. they kept showing a skyline view of a sever thunderstorm. all you could see was the street lights with an occational lightening strike. I was pissed! thankfully i had my laptop available to pull the game up online. I was yelling at those dumbasses talking about the weather as much as chearing for the game!

to the game.

i liked the fake fg. to short to punt and one hell of a long FG try. too bad quarless slipped. he just tripped over the f-ing hash marks. i wouldn't down grade him on that alone. He had a nice td grab. even though it might have been overturned on replay. he did a nice job to shield his body away from the official.

the back to back 4-1 run up the middle was dumb. they lb's were playing in the gaps. throw a short slant. Play-action boot leg.

rodgers throwing long on 3 and short pissed me off as much at the misscommunication with his WR's. get the first down! 3rd and 2 look for a 3-5 yard route not a 45 yard pass.

after the screen pass worked so well in the first half, they went away from it. I thought they should have ran a few more. make the defense show you that they can stop it.

[mission]

whoever was responsible for making sure the extra point team got out there so quick after the quarless TD deserves a moment of praise. if it's slocum, then yes, it can only be a brief moment.

that was as important as the throw and "catch" on that play. perfect example of "good teams find a way to win". im not sure we're a good team but we did a lot more of the little things correct and it made enough difference after 4qt to hold up.

[channtheman]

I'd give Capers a winner tag as well. He didn't just try and blitz the hell out of Favre all night. He sat back and let Favre beat himself (he he). The old addage that Favre will give you one or two shots at a pick have multiplied to 4-5. Great move.

I'm equally sick of the three man rush on 3rd and long as I am of the 15 yard back shoulder comeback routes along the sidelines.

Absolutely. We almost lost the game because of the dumbass 3 man rush at the end of the game. With a 3 man rush, Matthews is as good as the worst guy in the league. Should have been a 4 man rush at least.

[Brandon494]

So Hawk is a winner because he had an INT gift wrapped to him? The guy was missing tackles all night on AP and everytime he did make a tackle he got pushed back atleast 3 yards.

OK we get it you dislike Hawk!

Hawk had 11 tackles and an INT. That's pretty active and around the ball. If Hawk's INT was gift wrapped than Bishop's right in his belly was also. I didn't think Hawk was a stud this week but he is the leading tackler on the team and basically sat out week 1.

Hawk has 60 tackles thru 7 games. He is on a 135+ tackle clip.

I don't dislike Hawk, I just call it how I see it. Hes a MLB, hes suppose to lead the team in takcles. All Im saying is the guy is a wrap up tackler who gets pushed back 3 yards until help comes. I still believe Bishop is the better of the two.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I don't dislike Hawk, I just call it how I see it. Hes a MLB, hes suppose to lead the team in takcles. All Im saying is the guy is a wrap up tackler who gets pushed back 3 yards until help comes. I still believe Bishop is the better of the two.

Hawk is an ILB. Same as Bishop. If you call it the way you see it, how come you didn't jump on Bishop for making the winner's list--in part because of a gift interception? People see what they want to see. Neither guy really deserved the interception they got. Hawk had 11 tackles. Bishop had 8. Personally, I thought both guys played pretty well. There's no shame in allowing 4.7 yards/carry to Adrian Peterson. That's less than he's averaged in his career and this year. Especially behind the DL we threw out there. I thought Bishop and Hawk had a lot to do with Peterson not really going off.

BTW, Chilly loves to feed AP against us. His 28 carries last night tied his season high. Last year, he gave it to him 25 times in both games. His season high was 26. His career high is 30 carries in a game against us in 2008. He's fed Peterson the ball at least 25 times in each of the last 4 games against us.

[Brandon494]

I don't dislike Hawk, I just call it how I see it. Hes a MLB, hes suppose to lead the team in takcles. All Im saying is the guy is a wrap up tackler who gets pushed back 3 yards until help comes. I still believe Bishop is the better of the two.

Hawk is an ILB. Same as Bishop. If you call it the way you see it, how come you didn't jump on Bishop for making the winner's list--in part because of a gift interception? People see what they want to see. Neither guy really deserved the interception they got. Hawk had 11 tackles. Bishop had 8. Personally, I thought both guys played pretty well. There's no shame in allowing 4.7 yards/carry to Adrian Peterson. That's less than he's averaged in his career and this year. Especially behind the DL we threw out there. I thought Bishop and Hawk had a lot to do with Peterson not really going off.

BTW, Chilly loves to feed AP against us. His 28 carries last night tied his season high. Last year, he gave it to him 25 times in both games. His season high was 26. His career high is 30 carries in a game against us in 2008. He's fed Peterson the ball at least 25 times in each of the last 4 games against us.

I didn't mention Bishop off the winners list because he scored a TD in a 4 point game. I'm not saying Hawk had a bad game, just his play is just average to me. Yes he had more tackles then Bishop, but thats only because Capers used Bishop more in coverage even against Moss. Every tackle I saw him make he got pushed on his ass until help came.

[sharpe1027]

Also, MM whiffed on not challenging Jennings clear first down catch, we went for it on 4th down and failed. At that point, I thought we were going to lose the game, and we nearly did.

I think he would have lost that challenge. Jennings own momentum carried him past the first down marker (in the wrong direction). His forward momentum wasn't stopped by a defender, so I think that the spot goes to where the defender first affects his momentum, not to where he caught the ball.

[channtheman]

Also, MM whiffed on not challenging Jennings clear first down catch, we went for it on 4th down and failed. At that point, I thought we were going to lose the game, and we nearly did.

I think he would have lost that challenge. Jennings own momentum carried him past the first down marker (in the wrong direction). His forward momentum wasn't stopped by a defender, so I think that the spot goes to where the defender first affects his momentum, not to where he caught the ball.

Maybe so, but we'll never know. I think it was foolish to end the game with a challenge in your pocket where you could have used it.

This brings up another issue altogether. MM most likely did not want to challenge it because than he would not have had another challenge, even though he had 2 correct challenges already.

I don't understand why a coach loses a challenge even when he is right. You should be able to challenge as many times as you are right and you ONLY lose a challenge when you are wrong. For example, MM should have been able to challenge those first two plays with and still had 2 challenges left. Then he can easily decide to challenge the Jennings first down and if he is wrong, he still has one left for a possible fuck up (and this was very possible last night) with the refs.

[sharpe1027]

I don't understand why a coach loses a challenge even when he is right. You should be able to challenge as many times as you are right and you ONLY lose a challenge when you are wrong. For example, MM should have been able to challenge those first two plays with and still had 2 challenges left. Then he can easily decide to challenge the Jennings first down and if he is wrong, he still has one left for a possible fuck up (and this was very possible last night) with the refs.

Yeah, it makes no sense that a team should be punished for terrible refereeing.

[Bossman641]

Also, MM whiffed on not challenging Jennings clear first down catch, we went for it on 4th down and failed. At that point, I thought we were going to lose the game, and we nearly did.

I think he would have lost that challenge. Jennings own momentum carried him past the first down marker (in the wrong direction). His forward momentum wasn't stopped by a defender, so I think that the spot goes to where the defender first affects his momentum, not to where he caught the ball.

Maybe so, but we'll never know. I think it was foolish to end the game with a challenge in your pocket where you could have used it.

This brings up another issue altogether. MM most likely did not want to challenge it because than he would not have had another challenge, even though he had 2 correct challenges already.

I don't understand why a coach loses a challenge even when he is right. You should be able to challenge as many times as you are right and you ONLY lose a challenge when you are wrong. For example, MM should have been able to challenge those first two plays with and still had 2 challenges left. Then he can easily decide to challenge the Jennings first down and if he is wrong, he still has one left for a possible fuck up (and this was very possible last night) with the refs.

I was thinking the same thing last night. Each team should be allowed to keep on challenging until the call is upheld on 2 of them.

[Iron Mike]

I don't dislike Hawk, I just call it how I see it. Hes a MLB, hes suppose to lead the team in takcles. All Im saying is the guy is a wrap up tackler who gets pushed back 3 yards until help comes. I still believe Bishop is the better of the two.

Hawk is an ILB. Same as Bishop. If you call it the way you see it, how come you didn't jump on Bishop for making the winner's list--in part because of a gift interception? People see what they want to see. Neither guy really deserved the interception they got. Hawk had 11 tackles. Bishop had 8. Personally, I thought both guys played pretty well. There's no shame in allowing 4.7 yards/carry to Adrian Peterson. That's less than he's averaged in his career and this year. Especially behind the DL we threw out there. I thought Bishop and Hawk had a lot to do with Peterson not really going off.

BTW, Chilly loves to feed AP against us. His 28 carries last night tied his season high. Last year, he gave it to him 25 times in both games. His season high was 26. His career high is 30 carries in a game against us in 2008. He's fed Peterson the ball at least 25 times in each of the last 4 games against us.

I didn't mention Bishop off the winners list because he scored a TD in a 4 point game. I'm not saying Hawk had a bad game, just his play is just average to me. Yes he had more tackles then Bishop, but thats only because Capers used Bishop more in coverage even against Moss. Every tackle I saw him make he got pushed on his ass until help came.

Did anybody besides me notice that almost every time Hawk held Peterson up, it was Bishop that came in and knocked Purple Jesus backwards??? :wink:

[Iron Mike]

WINNERS: Pack :pack:

LOSERS: Bares, Queens (Crackwagon tonight) :P

http://members.shaw.ca/wrestling-brent/BaronVonRaschke.jpg

And that's all the people need to know!!!

[pbmax]

Also, MM whiffed on not challenging Jennings clear first down catch, we went for it on 4th down and failed. At that point, I thought we were going to lose the game, and we nearly did.

I think he would have lost that challenge. Jennings own momentum carried him past the first down marker (in the wrong direction). His forward momentum wasn't stopped by a defender, so I think that the spot goes to where the defender first affects his momentum, not to where he caught the ball.

Maybe so, but we'll never know. I think it was foolish to end the game with a challenge in your pocket where you could have used it.

This brings up another issue altogether. MM most likely did not want to challenge it because than he would not have had another challenge, even though he had 2 correct challenges already.

I don't understand why a coach loses a challenge even when he is right. You should be able to challenge as many times as you are right and you ONLY lose a challenge when you are wrong. For example, MM should have been able to challenge those first two plays with and still had 2 challenges left. Then he can easily decide to challenge the Jennings first down and if he is wrong, he still has one left for a possible fuck up (and this was very possible last night) with the refs.

I was thinking the same thing last night. Each team should be allowed to keep on challenging until the call is upheld on 2 of them.

No thanks. I don't need to watch 4 hour games.

[channtheman]

Also, MM whiffed on not challenging Jennings clear first down catch, we went for it on 4th down and failed. At that point, I thought we were going to lose the game, and we nearly did.

I think he would have lost that challenge. Jennings own momentum carried him past the first down marker (in the wrong direction). His forward momentum wasn't stopped by a defender, so I think that the spot goes to where the defender first affects his momentum, not to where he caught the ball.

Maybe so, but we'll never know. I think it was foolish to end the game with a challenge in your pocket where you could have used it.

This brings up another issue altogether. MM most likely did not want to challenge it because than he would not have had another challenge, even though he had 2 correct challenges already.

I don't understand why a coach loses a challenge even when he is right. You should be able to challenge as many times as you are right and you ONLY lose a challenge when you are wrong. For example, MM should have been able to challenge those first two plays with and still had 2 challenges left. Then he can easily decide to challenge the Jennings first down and if he is wrong, he still has one left for a possible fuck up (and this was very possible last night) with the refs.

I was thinking the same thing last night. Each team should be allowed to keep on challenging until the call is upheld on 2 of them.

No thanks. I don't need to watch 4 hour games.

Yes, I would rather a game decided by a bum call too!

[ThunderDan]

I don't dislike Hawk, I just call it how I see it. Hes a MLB, hes suppose to lead the team in takcles. All Im saying is the guy is a wrap up tackler who gets pushed back 3 yards until help comes. I still believe Bishop is the better of the two.

Hawk is an ILB. Same as Bishop. If you call it the way you see it, how come you didn't jump on Bishop for making the winner's list--in part because of a gift interception? People see what they want to see. Neither guy really deserved the interception they got. Hawk had 11 tackles. Bishop had 8. Personally, I thought both guys played pretty well. There's no shame in allowing 4.7 yards/carry to Adrian Peterson. That's less than he's averaged in his career and this year. Especially behind the DL we threw out there. I thought Bishop and Hawk had a lot to do with Peterson not really going off.

BTW, Chilly loves to feed AP against us. His 28 carries last night tied his season high. Last year, he gave it to him 25 times in both games. His season high was 26. His career high is 30 carries in a game against us in 2008. He's fed Peterson the ball at least 25 times in each of the last 4 games against us.

I didn't mention Bishop off the winners list because he scored a TD in a 4 point game. I'm not saying Hawk had a bad game, just his play is just average to me. Yes he had more tackles then Bishop, but thats only because Capers used Bishop more in coverage even against Moss. Every tackle I saw him make he got pushed on his ass until help came.

So a ball is thrown right to Bishop and there is no one between him and the endzone except Packers and that makes it great! I could have scored that TD!

Just saying! :lol:

[mission]

I wouldn't mind 4 hour games. I wait all week for the Pack to play and then it's all gone so quick. :D

[pbmax]

What no one realizes, is that despite all the technology and rule changes, dumb things happen at the same rate as 30 years ago. The errors are usually not as egregious, but they are replayed four thousand times on TV. Just look at the Miami game, the Johnson non touchdown and Shiancoe.

Replay should be used for boundary and scoring calls and that is it. And everyone plays to the whistle.

The dopes agitating for more replay in baseball because of the aborted no-hitter or the playoff calls argue that it won't make the games longer. Replay started in the NFL for boundary and possession calls I believe. Since it was adopted permanently, it has been expanded almost every year.

And no one is any happier, and no one thinks officiating has gotten better. Its just chasing after smaller (or sometimes dumber) errors.

[channtheman]

I think we will have to agree to disagree. I feel that the goal should be to get every call right, even if that extends the games a little bit.