ARod underrated

[HarveyWallbangers]

Says other NFL players.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/106523483.html


Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers and New England Patriots wide receiver Wes Welker are the most underrated players in the National Football League, according to a survey of NFL players.

In a poll of 245 NFL players, Rodgers and Welker each received 5% of the vote. The result of this poll question is published in this week's edition of Sports Illustrated, which is to be on newsstands on Wednesday.

The top five most underrated players in the NFL and the percentage of players voting for them are:

Aaron Rodgers (5%)
Wes Welker (5%)
Andre Johnson, Houston Texans wide receiver (3%)
Ray Rice, Baltimore Ravens running back (3%)
Matt Schaub, Houston Texans quarterback (2%)

[pbmax]

I would prefer he be overrated after putting up 30 on each of the last five teams, but I'll take it and the 5-3 record.

[Scott Campbell]

I wish I could put my finger on the difference in him between this year and last year. Were half way through the season now.

[mraynrand]

I wish I could put my finger on the difference in him between this year and last year. Were half way through the season now.

http://buscoscience.wikispaces.com/file/view/concussion_2.jpg/33412671/concussion_2.jpg

[sheepshead]

Says other NFL players.

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/106523483.html


Packers quarterback Aaron Rodgers and New England Patriots wide receiver Wes Welker are the most underrated players in the National Football League, according to a survey of NFL players.

In a poll of 245 NFL players, Rodgers and Welker each received 5% of the vote. The result of this poll question is published in this week's edition of Sports Illustrated, which is to be on newsstands on Wednesday.

The top five most underrated players in the NFL and the percentage of players voting for them are:

Aaron Rodgers (5%)
Wes Welker (5%)
Andre Johnson, Houston Texans wide receiver (3%)
Ray Rice, Baltimore Ravens running back (3%)
Matt Schaub, Houston Texans quarterback (2%)

There is no better admiration then from your peers, but what 'rating" are they talking about? All 5 of these guys are top picks in FF. Where else is there a 'rating' that the pollsters pointed to?

[RashanGary]

JS was squirming when they wrote that. It wasn't their words, they had to write it, but they had to be squirming.


Last year, when Favre beat Rodgers, Rodgers being a loser was all the rave. This year, when Rodgers beat Favre, they couldn't even bring themselves to write about it.


There is some strange bias that paper has for Bert and against Rodgers.

[Fosco33]

I wish I could put my finger on the difference in him between this year and last year. Were half way through the season now.

Pack was 4-4 this time last year - and painfully behind MN.

I'd take this position right now less the injuries.

Last year he was making poor decisions to hold onto the ball and getting sacked (killing drives). His accuracy seems to be down - but there's the feel that it's a pass only offense (even if that's not 100% accurate).

[Guiness]

How the holy hell is Andre Johnson, widely regarded as the best receiver in football (I think he was the first WR off the board in Div 3 FF) underated?

[denverYooper]

I wish I could put my finger on the difference in him between this year and last year. Were half way through the season now.

Pack was 4-4 this time last year - and painfully behind MN.

I'd take this position right now less the injuries.

Last year he was making poor decisions to hold onto the ball and getting sacked (killing drives). His accuracy seems to be down - but there's the feel that it's a pass only offense (even if that's not 100% accurate).

Those are good points. I haven't looked at the numbers but it often (though not always, e.g. vs Miami) seems like he's thrown more stuff away and taken more chances this year instead of holding on. Also, drops + "miscommunication" issues seem higher so far. My guess: adjustments due to losing Grant and Finley probably have a lot to do with all of that.

I wish they'd get BJack more involved in the passing game. He's looked good catching the ball out of the backfield.

[Noodle]

ARod is not nearly as accurate as he was last year, and I'm basing that on my eyes, not on his completion percentage. In fact, I don't mind his throwing balls away, which obviously messes with his completion percentage.

Rather, on key throws he's trying to make, he's not doing a good job in many cases of putting the ball where it needs to be. He just misses, with no real excuse for it.

I hate to admit it, but after the Jets game I started wondering if I was witnessing Carson Palmer Part II -- lots of early promise, but just does not develop in to what we thought he would be.

Now, he can correct that by throwing some darts against the Boys. Until he shows me some conistent accuracy, however, I'm going to have my doubts.

[pbmax]

JS was squirming when they wrote that. It wasn't their words, they had to write it, but they had to be squirming.


Last year, when Favre beat Rodgers, Rodgers being a loser was all the rave. This year, when Rodgers beat Favre, they couldn't even bring themselves to write about it.


There is some strange bias that paper has for Bert and against Rodgers.
C'mon, get over this. They (JSO) bashed Bert more than the National Media or the Press Gazette during the Summer of Hate. But Rodgers does not have an MVP or Super Bowl to provide cover when he is less than stellar (concussion or no). So his treatment this year is par for the course. When he wins one, then the boot-licking will commence.

Bert's near MVP performance last year just provided an unflattering point of comparison, though just one more playoff win.

[hoosier]

ARod is not nearly as accurate as he was last year, and I'm basing that on my eyes, not on his completion percentage. In fact, I don't mind his throwing balls away, which obviously messes with his completion percentage.

Rather, on key throws he's trying to make, he's not doing a good job in many cases of putting the ball where it needs to be. He just misses, with no real excuse for it.

I hate to admit it, but after the Jets game I started wondering if I was witnessing Carson Palmer Part II -- lots of early promise, but just does not develop in to what we thought he would be.

Now, he can correct that by throwing some darts against the Boys. Until he shows me some conistent accuracy, however, I'm going to have my doubts.

Agreed about the accuracy. Rodgers seemed to be struggling to get in sync with his receivers even before the concussion. I wonder how much the loss of Grant, and McCarthy's virtual abandonment of the running game, has affected Rodgers's comfort level. During the first half of last year he seemed rattled by having turnstiles at RT and LT. Could it be that he becomes less effective or starts to press when the opposing defense no longer sees the running game as a threat?

[pbmax]

ARod is not nearly as accurate as he was last year, and I'm basing that on my eyes, not on his completion percentage. In fact, I don't mind his throwing balls away, which obviously messes with his completion percentage.

Rather, on key throws he's trying to make, he's not doing a good job in many cases of putting the ball where it needs to be. He just misses, with no real excuse for it.

I hate to admit it, but after the Jets game I started wondering if I was witnessing Carson Palmer Part II -- lots of early promise, but just does not develop in to what we thought he would be.

Now, he can correct that by throwing some darts against the Boys. Until he shows me some conistent accuracy, however, I'm going to have my doubts.
The TV guys said McCarthy had told Rodgers to dial back throwing into coverage and put it where only his receiver could catch it. He wanted less turnovers versus the Jets.

I think he may be suffering from several things; being asked to take more risks with throws, lack of Finley and a concussion. So at a time when he needs to play like mid-season last year, he has made three adjustments he needs to forget (or get healthy from).

[Zool]

I think Drivers sub-par year mixed with Finleys injury has messed with the entire seasons identity of a middle passing attack opening up the outsides. The lack of a run threat also does this.

They run on obvious running downs and pass on obvious passing downs. I've already got most of the formations figured out and I have only watched the games live this year. The O-line has been really good at pass pro but the run blocking is weak still. Might be time to go back to the power gaps and ditch the zone till we have an actual zone back who's decisive. And no I don't think thats Kuhn. That guy see's any daylight, closes his eyes and runs towards it.

[mraynrand]

They run on obvious running downs and pass on obvious passing downs.

Ding! We have a winner. Go against tendency a little, Stubby! Too much FLAILURE!

"when we just got back to the things we do, the basics, we were productive"
"We need to get back to just playing football the right way and not worrying about what the other side’s doing."


And no I don't think thats Kuhn. That guy see's any daylight, closes his eyes and runs towards it. Yes he does, but very slowly. More like 'Jog to Dusk'

http://g-ecx.images-amazon.com/images/G/01/ciu/2d/3f/0c14b2c008a0b3d997d47010.L._SL500_AA300_.jpg

[Scott Campbell]

ARod is not nearly as accurate as he was last year, and I'm basing that on my eyes, not on his completion percentage.


I'm seeing that too. And I'm seeing way more miscommunication with his receivers.

[pbmax]

I think Drivers sub-par year mixed with Finleys injury has messed with the entire seasons identity of a middle passing attack opening up the outsides. The lack of a run threat also does this.
I think its more than just one WR. At the beginning of the season, it looked like Driver would hit his numbers but Jennings was lost. Now that DD is injured, its Jennings that looks like a world beater. The whole WR passing game looks like they just met during game week.

I do think Finley being gone has cost them their normally reliable third down conversions.

[pbmax]

I've already got most of the formations figured out and I have only watched the games live this year.
Post them. I have not noticed that (except for the obvious empty backfield and Kuhn at TB in short yardage).

[mmmdk]

ARod is not nearly as accurate as he was last year, and I'm basing that on my eyes, not on his completion percentage.


I'm seeing that too. And I'm seeing way more miscommunication with his receivers.

I think the fact that AR has befriending Cutler actually dumbed him down... :wink:

[HarveyWallbangers]

Anybody else notice that QB ratings are really down league-wide--except for a few exceptions? The only two QBs in the NFC with a QB rating over 90 is Tony Romo and Drew Brees (whose 92 QB rating is well below last year).

[superfan]

Funny, I was thinking earlier this week that ARod is actually overrated this season, in terms of on field production compared to preseason expectations. But maybe my/our expectations were too high. Still, nice to see the vote of confidence from the rest of the league.



I've already got most of the formations figured out and I have only watched the games live this year.
Post them. I have not noticed that (except for the obvious empty backfield and Kuhn at TB in short yardage).

Absolutely not. Chilly trolls this site for coaching advice, we shouldn't tip our hand.

[mmmdk]

Anybody else notice that QB ratings are really down league-wide--except for a few exceptions? The only two QBs in the NFC with a QB rating over 90 is Tony Romo and Drew Brees (whose 92 QB rating is well below last year).

Spot on!

I think the whole level of football is way down this season. When was it this bad?

I mean, the 2010 AFC powerhouse Jets, gets beaten 9-0 at NY by an injury plagued Packers team. If you're not a Packer fan then this game sucks big time.

But I am a Packer fan & wins are beautiful in all shapes and forms - just like women after enough beer. Heck, I'd text... :oops:

[Joemailman]

Anybody else notice that QB ratings are really down league-wide--except for a few exceptions? The only two QBs in the NFC with a QB rating over 90 is Tony Romo and Drew Brees (whose 92 QB rating is well below last year).

Some of it is that 2009 was an anomaly. Five QB's with a passer rating of over 100. Unheard of. Another thing is that Favre, Brees, Rodgers and Rivers have all lost key weapons to injury or other reasons.

[denverYooper]

(!)
http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20101103/PKR07/101103199/Mike-Vandermause-column-Rodgers-has-ethic-attitude-to-right-offense


Remember, too, the knock on Rodgers for not being a winner. Halfway through last season, his record as a starting quarterback was 10-14, and there were whispers that while he posted nice-looking statistics, it didn’t lead to enough victories. Rodgers answered those skeptics as well. His 12-4 regular-season record since the middle of last season is the best among NFL starting quarterbacks.

[packerbacker1234]

Driver was having far from a subpar year prior to this quad injury flaring up. When he and Finely were both healthy, people tend to forget that Driver and Finley were neck and neck for the lead in team receptions, and both made a share of of b ig down field plays. Driver honestly just needs rest. I love that he is a warrior and toughs through it, nit rest is going to allow that quad to recover fully, and then he can come on like a possessed man the rest of the year. It's not like JJ or Nelson have really done anything to take his spot away. Driver was even out performing Jennings whe n he was healthy.

The issue with AR is what many have pointed out... and then some I think. His accuracy is definitely down, but I think it's his head that is in the wrong place.

He isn't looking safties off nearly as much, and he seems to really be eyeing in on his one guy. It's odd, he was hit a lot more last season and never seemed to be jittery, yet this year, getting hit far less, and having time... he is making poor throws and improper reads.

It's weird. It's like he went from being "elite" to being a "good rookie". Not really sure what to think of him.

I wont blame finely either. AR didn't look good when Finely was here, and AR still looked great last year when Finely was gone.

So....


No idea. AR just looks lost out there.

[vince]

I think Drivers sub-par year mixed with Finleys injury has messed with the entire seasons identity of a middle passing attack opening up the outsides. The lack of a run threat also does this.
Yup. Rodgers has said that Finley's absence has allowed teams to play almost all cover 2 with only 7 in the box, which is tough to beat outside.

They run on obvious running downs and pass on obvious passing downs. I've already got most of the formations figured out and I have only watched the games live this year.
For better or worse, and it's almost always been for better, McCarthy's offense has never been about tricking the defense by running in passing formations and vice-versa.

McCarthy uses probably more more different personnel packages and formations than any team in the league to force scheme and personnel mismatches rather than trickery. Defenses (hopefully) have to match up and/or show what they are doing and the Packers then attack the weaknesses, which the defense knows about too.

I think the fact that defenses often have a good general idea what they're going to get based on personnel and formation is why the offensive line is stressed more than most in both the run and passing game. The o-line has that disadvantage from the start, which makes their job that much tougher (Hence the disrespect for Campen's coaching, but that's for another thread).

In today's game, points are scored with explosive plays in the passing game, and it's obviously tougher to take shots when defenses can get away with sitting back and defending against them. McCarthy and Rodgers both have to keep working to adjust to become more effective without the built-in mismatch and coverage dictator that is Jermichael Finley.

Finley is such an athletic freak that Michael Lombardi, who has headed up a number of NFL personnel departments and worked with some of the all-time greats including Walsh and Bellichek, said last night on The Top 100 roundtable discussion that he is one of the young players that could break into the list of the 100 best players of all-time. That's some friggin' high praise. Not having him has a huge impact on Aaron Rodgers and the rest of the players too for that matter. Everyone's just magically better when he's in there and worse when he's not, including the coaches.

[Pugger]

Rodgers has had problems with INTs and such and having his recievers dropping balls isn't helping him much. But I do wish MM would go back to using short passes and slants more! With our anemic running game he should be using these difficult to defend throws. This year in particular MM seems too enamored in the long ball/home run, especially on 3rd down. When you go 3 and out so often no wonder the offense can't get into any sort of rhythm. :?

[TennesseePackerBacker]

Our eyes can decieve us. I'd rather trust the stats.

Rodgers had a career year last year. NFL QB play isn't all roses, and this year of parody has proven that. Look at the decline in Brees, Rodgers, Favre, Romo(had comparable numbers to Arod last year), and others.

Last year was the year of the QB. Secondaries have tightened up. Several of the QB's above have been plagued by drops and inconsistency at WR.

I'd chalk your percieved short-commings of Arod up to high expectations. He is still only in his 3rd year. He lacks poise at times; I agree with that. But, he's still a young quarterback.

Let's give the guy time before we pass judgement. We are only half way through the season.

[denverYooper]

Our eyes can decieve us. I'd rather trust the stats.

Rodgers had a career year last year. NFL QB play isn't all roses, and this year of parody has proven that. Look at the decline in Brees, Rodgers, Favre, Romo(had comparable numbers to Arod last year), and others.

Last year was the year of the QB. Secondaries have tightened up. Several of the QB's above have been plagued by drops and inconsistency at WR.


I'd chalk your percieved short-commings of Arod up to high expectations. He is still only in his 3rd year. He lacks poise at times; I agree with that. But, he's still a young quarterback.

Let's give the guy time before we pass judgement. We are only half way through the season.

I've been wondering about the bolded statement above. Have defenses changed the way they play some of these QBs this year and muted their effectiveness? It has been said that teams are blitzing Rodgers less and instead playing more Cover-2 with man under to reduce his effectiveness.

Now, you can point to factors with each QB -- Favre finally hit the wall, Brees has missed Thomas/Bush, the Cowboys line sucks ass, and Rodgers lost Finley and Grant. But then there's Peyton Manning who continues to eat defenses alive despite playing with a 3rd string TE and 5th string RB(?). I can only hope Rodgers learns that kind of ability to read a D.

Whatever the case may be, I think that Rodgers has played pretty well for the most part even if his stats are not up to last year's. To the halfway point this year, he is doing better in the only stat that matters -- WINS!

[packerbacker1234]

Rodgers has had problems with INTs and such and having his recievers dropping balls isn't helping him much. But I do wish MM would go back to using short passes and slants more! With our anemic running game he should be using these difficult to defend throws. This year in particular MM seems too enamored in the long ball/home run, especially on 3rd down. When you go 3 and out so often no wonder the offense can't get into any sort of rhythm. :?

SIlly excuses are silly.

Drops are DOWN from last years pace. WR's are dropping less balls, though the number may be up to last years pace if rodgers was actually getting the ball TO the reciever.

He has more time in the pocket, less drops, and really the same sort of recieving core he had last season sans finley, who was hurt last year fo a stretch and AR still played fantastically. Rodgers has Zero excuse for his poor play other than looking int he mirror and going "why the hell am I not playing well".

I pointed out a few things already, and people have noted his happy feet... which is rediculous that he has them. He isn't really getting hit this year and he acts like he should of acted last season. It's so odd. Best protecting he has ever had and he plays worse.


I know what we need to do. Shoot clifton in the leg so he is done for the year, and then box up and ship sitton off to Germany. Rodgers can only play well if he is going to get hammered every play.

[Bretsky]

HAVE TO AGREE WITH SUPERFAN
The content of the article is surprising

Most of us in here considered AROD hands down a top 5 QB right now but I don't think his stats would say he is at this point year to date

So we have overrated him

But many of us play Fantasy Football so maybe that effects our viewpoints as well. AROD was rated the top QB and no worse than 3rd by nearly every publication.

[HarveyWallbangers]

In the previous two years, I think Rodgers numbers were a bit better than he played. This year, I think he's played a bit better than his numbers.

[packerbacker1234]

In the previous two years, I think Rodgers numbers were a bit better than he played. This year, I think he's played a bit better than his numbers.

How has he played better than his numbers? Last I checked, scoring TD's has become a rarity for this offense.

[mraynrand]

In the previous two years, I think Rodgers numbers were a bit better than he played. This year, I think he's played a bit better than his numbers.

How has he played better than his numbers? Last I checked, scoring TD's has become a rarity for this offense.

So have tight ends

[HarveyWallbangers]

In the previous two years, I think Rodgers numbers were a bit better than he played. This year, I think he's played a bit better than his numbers.

How has he played better than his numbers? Last I checked, scoring TD's has become a rarity for this offense.

He's played winning football. He's had some bad breaks on some of his picks. He's taken fewer sacks. He hasn't fumbled much. Look at the talent on this offense. It isn't close to what it was last year. Grant out all year. Finley out for most of the year. Driver hampered. Jones and Nelson inconsistent. OL inconsistent. He's played winning football--a hell of a lot better than the other QBs in the division, that's for sure.

[pbmax]

In the previous two years, I think Rodgers numbers were a bit better than he played. This year, I think he's played a bit better than his numbers.

How has he played better than his numbers? Last I checked, scoring TD's has become a rarity for this offense.

He's played winning football. He's had some bad breaks on some of his picks. He's taken fewer sacks. He hasn't fumbled much. Look at the talent on this offense. It isn't close to what it was last year. Grant out all year. Finley out for most of the year. Driver hampered. Jones and Nelson inconsistent. OL inconsistent. He's played winning football--a hell of a lot better than the other QBs in the division, that's for sure.
I do fault Rodgers in two areas. His INTs are up. McCarthy picked the wrong year to encourage more risk taking given the injuries. I think the Jets game showed they may be about to adjust that.

And throwing to the long routes on 3rd and short. Get some first downs, cross (or at least get to) midfield then take a shot.

Ideally, it would happen in the 2nd and 3rd quarter.

[ThunderDan]

In the previous two years, I think Rodgers numbers were a bit better than he played. This year, I think he's played a bit better than his numbers.

How has he played better than his numbers? Last I checked, scoring TD's has become a rarity for this offense.

Holy Christmas! In 2008 when Rodgers was putting up huge numbers people were running him down because he couldn't win. For the first half of 2009 the same thing happens and people went crazy after the Tampa game.

Now in 2010 his stat line isn't as good but the Pack is 5-3 and now ARod doesn't have the numbers and people are bashing him! I am sick of this crap.

Pick an argument people!! He either sucks because he doesn't win or he sucks because his stat line isn't good.

[Bretsky]

Rodgers does not suck; I just don't think he can be considered to be playing at the elite status right now that we thought he'd be this year. Obviously there are several reasons that is occuring, some due to loss of talent on the offensive side but some of it is his own doing.

Maybe Brady and Manning might be the only two there and everybody else is a step below.

I think in the offseason many would have put Manning, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers in about the same category.

Rodgers still IMO is certainly a top 10 QB. Whether he's 3,4, or 9 is what is debateable.

Still dam good

[HarveyWallbangers]

Agreed, Bretsky. He's not playing at elite level, but he's still a top 10 QB. Just kind of strange how many QBs have fallen off. It wasn't really fair to compare ARod to Manning, Brady, and Brees yet. I don't think I ever put him in that category. I thought he was in the next tier with potential to join those other guys (really, that would take a great team effort and playoff success).

[packerbacker1234]

For starters, I never said rodgers sucks. I could care less if the guy throws 30 picks in 8 games as long as we are still putting points on the board. I didn't hate on Rodgers too much in 2008, he just needed a signature game ending drive to win, and he got that last year. Sure he had some nice kate game drives, but left the other team way too much time and with our poor defensive play that year...


ANyways, I like Rodgers a lot. That doesn't change the fact our offense is "below average" so far this year largely due to his play. I'm not saying it's all on him, but a lot of it is. AR's job is to have this offense put points on the board. THat isn't happening with the exact same personael he had last season.

Yes, his numbers are down - FORGET the stats. I look at offensive points scored a game and see a massive drop off, very similar to the massive drop off the vikings have this year. We are 5-3 because our defense has been playing like an elite defense. Offense has been.... not very gopod. That does rest on Rodgers.

[vince]

Rodgers does not suck; I just don't think he can be considered to be playing at the elite status right now that we thought he'd be this year. Obviously there are several reasons that is occuring, some due to loss of talent on the offensive side but some of it is his own doing.

Maybe Brady and Manning might be the only two there and everybody else is a step below.

I think in the offseason many would have put Manning, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers in about the same category.

Rodgers still IMO is certainly a top 10 QB. Whether he's 3,4, or 9 is what is debateable.

Still dam good
I think this is right. I also think Rodgers would agree with this. His talent is right up there with the elite, and not having Finley makes the job tougher, but he has said repeatedly that the offensive production starts with him. He openly acknowledges he needs to play better, and he can play better.

[denverYooper]

Rodgers does not suck; I just don't think he can be considered to be playing at the elite status right now that we thought he'd be this year. Obviously there are several reasons that is occurring, some due to loss of talent on the offensive side but some of it is his own doing.

Maybe Brady and Manning might be the only two there and everybody else is a step below.

I think in the offseason many would have put Manning, Brady, Brees, and Rodgers in about the same category.

Rodgers still IMO is certainly a top 10 QB. Whether he's 3,4, or 9 is what is debateable.

Still dam good

I agree with all of that. Especially the part abt expecting Rodgers to pop into that elite echelon this year. Manning and Brady are there, no doubt. While they also looked good early on, it took them 5-6 full years to get up to true elite status, IMO. Interestingly, each of them blew up (according to rating) their 7th year. Brady benefited early by playing safe ball on the B side of a very good early 2k defense and a good O line.

QB Rate for first 7 full years:
Brady: 86.5, 85.7, 85.9, 92.6, 92.3, 87.9, 117.2 (2007)
Manning: 71.2, 90.7, 94.7, 84.1, 88.8, 99.0, 121.1 (2004)
Rodgers: 93.8, 103.3, 85.3 (2010 so far)

I think the only thing that separates Rodgers from elite status at this point is time. There's no guarantee that he'll take that step but I like his chances.