Collins fined $50,000. !!!!!

[Patler]

wow!!

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/09000d5d81bf587f/article/nfl-fines-packers-collins-50k-despite-williams-objections?module=HP_headlines

[sheepshead]

no surprise. its been happening all year.

[denverYooper]

That's been happening a lot lately -- big fines for h2h. Thank goodness he wasn't suspended.

[steve823]

"Commissioner Goodell, don't fine the guy," Williams said. "It wasn't that bad of a deal, he shouldn't get fined. It was a football play, a football player making a football play. No injury, no harm."

Just got a little more resepect for Williams. I can't really lose respect for Goodel l since I had none for him to begin with. This is what happens when you let 1 guy run the show.

[Lurker64]

At least no suspension. There was talk of that after the game.

At least, I suppose if they were going to suspend him, they would have announced it now.

[Patler]

But I think this is Collin's first, isn't it. The other big fines were to noted bad boys who were repeat offenders and knocked players out of the game.

I expected something around $25 k, especially since Williams wasn't injured.

[Guiness]

I was just about to post a link from sportsline about that

http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/story/14262300/nfl-fines-packers-s-collins-50000

from the article

In a statement, league officials said Collins "violently and unnecessarily struck a defenseless receiver" in the neck and head area with his helmet during Sunday night's game at Lambeau Field and called it a "flagrant violation of player safety rules."

I think that statement is way over the top. I saw the play, and replay in slow motion. Collins timed his hit nicely, arriving just after the ball. Williams was falling backwards trying to make the catch, and his helmet moved into Collins' path as much as anything else. It was not an unecessary hit, or flagrant violation whatsoever.

I understand what they're trying to do, put the onus on the defensive players to work at avoiding these helmet to helmet hits, but to call this a flagrant violation is overplaying that hand.

[pbmax]

From Patler's link:


In a statement, league officials said Collins "violently and unnecessarily struck a defenseless receiver" in the neck and head area with his helmet during Sunday night's game at Lambeau Field and called it a "flagrant violation of player safety rules."

Call it a violation of the rules, flag him, fine him or suspend him. I can understand. But a violent, unnecessary and intentional hit? Either that is an oversell or they are saying you cannot hit the player in their upper back.

[Zool]

I think its dumb how they are going about this, but they will be fining anyone hitting with the top of their helmet. The simple way to avoid this is to not hit anyone with the top of your head. The adage "see what you hit" would save these guys a lot of money.

[pbmax]

I think its dumb how they are going about this, but they will be fining anyone hitting with the top of their helmet. The simple way to avoid this is to not hit anyone with the top of your head. The adage "see what you hit" would save these guys a lot of money.
But didn't Collins hit him with his shoulder first?

[denverYooper]

I think its dumb how they are going about this, but they will be fining anyone hitting with the top of their helmet. The simple way to avoid this is to not hit anyone with the top of your head. The adage "see what you hit" would save these guys a lot of money.

+1. Their ad-hoc legislation of it is sloppy, even if well-intentioned.

[pbmax]

I think its dumb how they are going about this, but they will be fining anyone hitting with the top of their helmet. The simple way to avoid this is to not hit anyone with the top of your head. The adage "see what you hit" would save these guys a lot of money.
But didn't Collins hit him with his shoulder first?
Nope, he didn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szGBAz-qk8g

[Cheesehead Craig]

No surprise, I called that in the game day thread. Back of the head hit with the helmet was going to get a bigger fine. Especially with Williams laying on the field for a while.

[Brandon494]

Im just glad it was only a fine.

[red]

Im just glad it was only a fine.

same here

we're damn lucky its only a fine, a suspension would have ment missing the vikings games

a lot of people thought nicks hit was the perfect example goodell was looking for to dish out that fist suspension

[Patler]

Williams was falling backwards trying to make the catch, and his helmet moved into Collins' path as much as anything else. It was not an unecessary hit, or flagrant violation whatsoever.

I understand what they're trying to do, put the onus on the defensive players to work at avoiding these helmet to helmet hits, but to call this a flagrant violation is overplaying that hand.

That was my thought too. There are times when DBs launch themselves toward the receiver's head. Collins didn't do that. Collins had his target, and Williams head sort of moved into the path.

I don't mind the penalty, or even a lesser fined. But to characterize this as Collins intentionally going helmet to helmet is inaccurate, I think.

[Fritz]

The NFL needs to lay down the law that if you knock a guy out of a game via helmet-to-helmet (by the way that phrase also sounds vaguely gay to me), you get taken out of the game.

Kinda like the NHL. That will change the game, sure, but if they want to stop any helmet to helmet stuff, that's how they'll have to do it. Fining guys isn't going to be as effective.

And no fair starting to suspend guys in mid-season. If that's what the NFL wants to do, then they need to announce that they will begin doing that at the beginning of the next NFL season - whenever that is going to be.

[Zool]

Williams was falling backwards trying to make the catch, and his helmet moved into Collins' path as much as anything else. It was not an unecessary hit, or flagrant violation whatsoever.

I understand what they're trying to do, put the onus on the defensive players to work at avoiding these helmet to helmet hits, but to call this a flagrant violation is overplaying that hand.

That was my thought too. There are times when DBs launch themselves toward the receiver's head. Collins didn't do that. Collins had his target, and Williams head sort of moved into the path.

I don't mind the penalty, or even a lesser fined. But to characterize this as Collins intentionally going helmet to helmet is inaccurate, I think.

Had he lead with his shoulder or even his face mask I don't think he gets the fine.

[gbgary]

50k...wow.

[mission]

Dude is getting 14m this year... that's like a 1k fine for league min guys!

[Deputy Nutz]

He had no reason to hit him. The ball was obivously uncatchable at the time of the collision, and Collins went helmet to helmet.

The fella from the Eagles got no fine on the hit to Collie from the Colts.

[Lurker64]

The fella from the Eagles got no fine on the hit to Collie from the Colts.

I think that was because, on further review, there wasn't anything illegal about the hit that Collie received from either Mikell or Coleman. Collie caught the ball, was hit legally by Mikell, and as a result of the hit he was knocked into Coleman, at which points helmets collided.

In retrospect, it shouldn't even have been flagged but referees never have the benefit of instant replay in the heat of the moment.

[Deputy Nutz]

If I was a receiver and I took a hard hit and dropped the ball I would just wiggle on the field and grab my head. 15 yards the "easy" way.

Collie got 15 because he was knocked out, not because he was hit illegally.

this is football shit happens. Shit doesn't always deserve a 15 yard penalty

[Little Whiskey]

Shit doesn't always deserve a 15 yard penalty

there have been times when I've taken a shit that deserved a 15yard penalty! hell, i'd have flagged myself!

[Noodle]

Colins went upstairs, he could have hit him lower with just as much impact.

"Seeing what you hit" just doesn't cut it anymore, because that usually involves leading with your facemask/helmet. DBs have got to learn to hit with the shoulder, which is a very different approach, or they will have to lower their aim-point if they insist on going helmet-first.

And at this point, I will repeat my view that they should just get rid of the facemask.

[packerbacker1234]

Actually, all these fines are being brought up in the CBA discussions I believe. THe player union is pretty pissed off over it. Goodell can be the one man shwo all he wants, but guess what... without hte players union on your side there is no NFL for him to be the show of.

I highly doubt the Players Union backs off this issue either, making it all the more likely of a holdout next season. SOrry, it was a football paly. Throw the flag for helmet to helmet contact - fine, but don't run around fining people for a bang bang play. Essentially, based on what htey said, collins should of not touched him in any way. Allowed the catch to occure, and then take out his knees.

Then someone will blow their knee, and we'll get some rule about how tackling low isn't allowed.

Injuries are part of football. The packers know this better than any team in the NFL this year. If you start telling palyers they can't make football plays, need to stop using instincts and start holding back, I fear you will actually INCREASE the injury rate.


Look at this year. So many injuries on every play, with the new rules up, and most them happening in legal and irrelvant situations just from palying the game, and I am sure some happening out of hesitation - hesitation = more likely to get hurt.


You can be like Troy Aikman and hammer home the nfl wont be about hitting anymore, but bottom line is the NFL isn;'t the only law maker around. The Players Union can tell them to shove it.

[mraynrand]

I think its dumb how they are going about this, but they will be fining anyone hitting with the top of their helmet. The simple way to avoid this is to not hit anyone with the top of your head. The adage "see what you hit" would save these guys a lot of money.

And it might save them hurting themselves. I cringe every time I see Bob Sanders lower his head and lead with his helmet. You're asking to be paralyzed.

[ThunderDan]

I think the NFL has to do something but am not sure what. It seems like they need some sort of committee that decides what fine will be given and not just 1 person.

I had the privilege of getting to know Elroy Hirsch very well in the late 1990s. He was the poster child for player safety. He could tell you every football game he ever played in. Every snap, every tackle and every catch. He couldn't tell you what he ate for lunch, he would call me a different name everytime we met until he just started calling me "Pro", he couldn't drive and he would ask you the same question 5 times during a 4 hour round of golf. He could barely walk, he more or less shuffled everywhere he went. Someone had to tee up his ball on every hole and get it out of the hole for him.

It was a shame that such a charasmatic person had to have such poor physical conditions at the end of his life. I can understand the physical pain from playing football but Elroy had no short-term memory. It was lucky that he had such great family and friends (Wisconsin Badger people) to make sure he could at least enjoy the last years of his life.

[mraynrand]

DBs have got to learn to hit with the shoulder, which is a very different approach And Bigby's stock just keeps rising!


And at this point, I will repeat my view that they should just get rid of the facemask. Good point - maybe the NFL should go to faceshields only, thickened at the chin area, and have a nice soft, compressible velcro-attached pillowy thingy on the front and top of the helmet.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The players should all be wearing that inflatable sumo outfit. The WRs and RBs can have velcro on their suits as will the ball so that way the QB just has to stick it on to them. Now that's entertaining stuff there.

[denverYooper]

Good point - maybe the NFL should go to faceshields only, thickened at the chin area, and have a nice soft, compressible velcro-attached pillowy thingy on the front and top of the helmet.

I think they could definitely spend some time and money examining a better helmet design and mandating some minimum safety features.

[sheepshead]

Good point - maybe the NFL should go to faceshields only, thickened at the chin area, and have a nice soft, compressible velcro-attached pillowy thingy on the front and top of the helmet.

I think they could definitely spend some time and money examining a better helmet design and mandating some minimum safety features.

I did some work for Riddell when they were still here (I have a nice collection) anyway that new helmet works very well but players are still reluctant to wear it because of the way it looks. Requiring it would be a good step. Also, do the Packers still pay those fines??

[pbmax]

Good point - maybe the NFL should go to faceshields only, thickened at the chin area, and have a nice soft, compressible velcro-attached pillowy thingy on the front and top of the helmet.

I think they could definitely spend some time and money examining a better helmet design and mandating some minimum safety features.
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2010/10/500x_gladitor.jpg

[mraynrand]

Good point - maybe the NFL should go to faceshields only, thickened at the chin area, and have a nice soft, compressible velcro-attached pillowy thingy on the front and top of the helmet.

I think they could definitely spend some time and money examining a better helmet design and mandating some minimum safety features.
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2010/10/500x_gladitor.jpg

Look, I want to protect player's heads, but not like this, not at this cost. That dude (Shanahan?) looks like a pussy in there.

[pbmax]

Actually, all these fines are being brought up in the CBA discussions I believe. THe player union is pretty pissed off over it. Goodell can be the one man shwo all he wants, but guess what... without hte players union on your side there is no NFL for him to be the show of.

I highly doubt the Players Union backs off this issue either, making it all the more likely of a holdout next season. SOrry, it was a football paly. Throw the flag for helmet to helmet contact - fine, but don't run around fining people for a bang bang play. Essentially, based on what htey said, collins should of not touched him in any way. Allowed the catch to occure, and then take out his knees.

Then someone will blow their knee, and we'll get some rule about how tackling low isn't allowed.

Injuries are part of football. The packers know this better than any team in the NFL this year. If you start telling palyers they can't make football plays, need to stop using instincts and start holding back, I fear you will actually INCREASE the injury rate.


Look at this year. So many injuries on every play, with the new rules up, and most them happening in legal and irrelvant situations just from palying the game, and I am sure some happening out of hesitation - hesitation = more likely to get hurt.


You can be like Troy Aikman and hammer home the nfl wont be about hitting anymore, but bottom line is the NFL isn;'t the only law maker around. The Players Union can tell them to shove it.
The Union has already agreed to the rules as they are, nothing has changed in the rulebook during this year. And the Union agreed to the current appeals process, involving two former coaches.

The only difference is the attention being paid and the level of penalties assessed. While it is certainly possible that players agree with Harrison, Polamalu and Aikman, their avenues to change the current enforcement are probably limited to arguing about the level of fines and suspensions.

Having previously agreed to everything else, they would need to make significant concessions to pull back any of the remaining rules. And that would also be a hard PR battle to fight. If anything, I think the Union asked for the penalties to be more specific and certain.