""RELEASE FROM PACKERS SHOCKS HARRIS""

[Bretsky]

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/106934148.html


the utlimate pro but some interesting quotes

[Bretsky]

"They were definitely leading me on, telling me something else," Harris said. "I just didn't think Ted and Mike would do that. I thought they would be a little more straight forward with me. They had me going home and studying and things like that and they already knew their plans.

"I guess you hear it so much that it’s a business. It’s just the way it goes."



McCarthy defended the way the Packers handled things and said they were upfront with Harris that releasing him was one of the options. He said he had "no qualms at all about the professionalism that we've dealt with throughout this whole process."

[Brandon494]

I'm sure TT and MM didn't think Shields would break out the way he has. Honestly I'd rather have Shields as the #3 as well.

[RashanGary]

"They were definitely leading me on, telling me something else," Harris said. "I just didn't think Ted and Mike would do that. I thought they would be a little more straight forward with me. They had me going home and studying and things like that and they already knew their plans.

"I guess you hear it so much that it’s a business. It’s just the way it goes."



McCarthy defended the way the Packers handled things and said they were upfront with Harris that releasing him was one of the options. He said he had "no qualms at all about the professionalism that we've dealt with throughout this whole process."

I can fully understand how Harris would feel that way but at the same time, he might not have wanted to see the other possibility. If the Packers really didn't want him, they could have cut him instead of paying him. They wanted to give him a chance. He's that good of a player. He was worth that chance, but ultimately, this really is a business.

[Patler]

I'm not criticizing Harris, because he seems to be handling this with class, saying mostly only good things about the Packers. But, it makes me laugh when athletes say that crap, "Gee, I guess it really is a business!" What did they think it was? A hobby? Rec sports where you play as long as you sign up for the season?

Thousands of employees just as dedicated to their employers have gone to work for 10, 20, 30 years until one day, with no warning, they are told their jobs are being moved to Mexico, China, India or wherever. "Thanks, we found someone cheaper, see you later."

Even with a guy as great as Harris seems to be, the attitude of entitlement sneaks through just a little. He has no reason to feel shocked. If anything, he should have sort of anticipated it,

[mraynrand]

I'm not criticizing Harris, because he seems to be handling this with class, saying mostly only good things about the Packers. But, it makes me laugh when athletes say that crap, "Gee, I guess it really is a business!" What did they think it was? A hobby? Rec sports where you play as long as you sign up for the season?

Thousands of employees just as dedicated to their employers have gone to work for 10, 20, 30 years until one day, with no warning, they are told their jobs are being moved to Mexico, China, India or wherever. "Thanks, we found someone cheaper, see you later."

Even with a guy as great as Harris seems to be, the attitude of entitlement sneaks through just a little. He has no reason to feel shocked. If anything, he should have sort of anticipated it,

Good point, but In Harris' case, it's tougher - you just found out that the scrappy new hire is kicking your ass and that you're outdated and expendable. I can tell you that's a lot harder to swallow than someone just moving your job to shave a few quatloos/unit.

[Patler]

Good point, but In Harris' case, it's tougher - you just found out that the scrappy new hire is kicking your ass and that you're outdated and expendable. I can tell you that's a lot harder to swallow than someone just moving your job to shave a few quatloos/unit.

Different maybe, but the effect is the same, and it happens all the time for many "regular people" too. Sometimes in an in-your-face transition, and other times under the guise of corporate reorganization, downsizing (now sometimes called "right sizing" as if that makes it any easier), etc.

Individuals like pro athletes who even at the lowest levels are paid well beyond their value to society (OK, just my opinion on that! :lol: ) should ALWAYS feel that their careers are at the edge of a cliff from which they could fall at anytime based on the whims of their employers. Basically, most of us work that way anyway, but for a lot less.

[ND72]

I've always liked Harris, but I've always viewed him as an overachiever. athletically, he isn't THAT great by NFL standards, and what he lacked in speed he made up for in desire. It's tough, but it's just one of those things now. You've got Tramon Williams looking great, and a pretty decent find in Sam Shields who has a huge upside to grow, where Harris is likely on the decline.

[Fritz]

There are two issues here. The first is the difference of opinion between the organization and Harris as to how up front the Packers were with Harris. I think that's what Bretsky was trying to point out, and that is a little unnerving to me. One of Thompson's weak points seems to be his inability to directly address players on negative issues. I've read that he appoints people to deal with those situations - Favre being the most obvious example. Andrew Brandt claims TT doesn't like to address issues himself. On the other hand, Harris's agent seems to downplay this angle - at least from what I've seen in the GBPG quotes.

The second issue is about Harris's surprise. And there, I see both sides. Yes, it's a business. But the coaches and front offices try to develop a locker room cameraderie, that they're all in it together, to win a championship, and all that. They have to do that, of course. But they're really not all in it together. There are competing interests all over.

So if Harris bought into the "we're all in this together" stuff, he was being a good soldier, which is one of the traits in him we admire. So I kinda get where he was coming from. On the other hand, when he outperformed his contract a few years ago he was not above bitching a little in the press about it, if I recall correctly.

[ThunderDan]

Why wouldn't the coaches and TT get Al ready to play nickle or dime back? What if Sam Shields had gotten injuried Sunday night? Al would be playing dime or nickle after the bye!

Not getting a player ready to play is stupid and shows lack of organizational commitment to excellence. Any players career can be over in 1 play and the next guy on the bench better be able to step in and not see that big of a drop off in play. Just ask Al about a freak play where your knee decides to explode!

[3irty1]

I suspect that in the near future this will rank among Ted's most regrettable decisions.

McCarthy explained in his presser yesterday that it was not a medical decision and that he has no doubts that Al will catch on and play at a high level. The decision was purely in the interest of the future of the team.

The decision was also not based on money. His 2M salary is hardly an excuse. His contract is very team friendly, in fact it drops to just above the vet minimum next year.

This decision was made purely on age, special teams ability, and the upside of the other corners/safeties on our roster. I don't like this move at all. Al has said that he intends to play into his 40's, has made nearly miraculous recoveries in the last two seasons and is no less valuable to the secondary than Donald Driver is to the WR corps.

Part of me wants to put some blame on Capers, who may be a great defensive mind but seems to do a poor job of making use of his personnel. Desmond Bishop and AJ Hawk were both banished to the bench inexplicably as they now look like the best pair of MLB we've had. I question other decisions including the uses of Kampman, Jarius Wynn, and others. I'm beginning to see why he was such a lousy head coach.

[3irty1]

On the other hand, when he outperformed his contract a few years ago he was not above bitching a little in the press about it, if I recall correctly.

Do you recall the deal he got though? It was almost the same but with pro-bowl incentives. Every player who wants them should get pro-bowl incentives. Al seemed a little bit paranoid around TT, I remember him saying that he thought he'd be the next to go after the Favre deal and mentioned that multiple times he's "checked in" with Thompson and pleaded that he be evaluated on his play alone because he intended to play until he was 40.

[MadScientist]

I think part of it is that the Packers, especially TT don't like to tip their hand in any way, so Al didn't think it was coming while he was practicing. The other part is that Al was told to prepare and practice like he would be the nickle-back. To him it meant they want him to play, to the Packers it meant that he was only worth keeping if he was the best option for #3 because he doesn't play ST.

If my guess is correct, I can't really find too much fault with the Packers handling of the situation, and I can't blame Al for being caught off-guard. No real winning options here.

It's unfortunately a bit of a downer, after coming into the bye week on a high not, but such is life in the NFL.

[Patler]

The other part is that Al was told to prepare and practice like he would be the nickle-back. To him it meant they want him to play, to the Packers it meant that he was only worth keeping if he was the best option for #3 because he doesn't play ST.

I think this is the key factor. Williams isn't about to be moved out of the starting lineup, and Shields has seemingly made tremendous strides since coming here. If the combination of age and injury recovery has made Harris not significantly better than what they project Shields to be by year end, then there really is no spot for Harris on the Packer roster. The #4 corner has to be a contributor on ST.

Sometimes succession planning on sports teams results in the replacement being ready before the vet decides to hang it up. It happens all the time, especially when the replacement gains playing experience due to the vet's injury. We are likely seeing the same situation at RT. By the time Tauscher is healthy enough to play, the starting job will be Bulaga's.

If Shields development follows the path that Williams' did, Woodson's time in GB could end prematurely, too. I hope TT continues to find replacements at key positions who are ready to step in a season or two before the vet is ready to leave. That is how transitions from one to the other occur without significant fall off in performance.

[ThunderDan]

The other part is that Al was told to prepare and practice like he would be the nickle-back. To him it meant they want him to play, to the Packers it meant that he was only worth keeping if he was the best option for #3 because he doesn't play ST.

I think this is the key factor. Williams isn't about to be moved out of the starting lineup, and Shields has seemingly made tremendous strides since coming here. If the combination of age and injury recovery has made Harris not significantly better than what they project Shields to be by year end, then there really is no spot for Harris on the Packer roster. The #4 corner has to be a contributor on ST.

Sometimes succession planning on sports teams results in the replacement being ready before the vet decides to hang it up. It happens all the time, especially when the replacement gains playing experience due to the vet's injury. We are likely seeing the same situation at RT. By the time Tauscher is healthy enough to play, the starting job will be Bulaga's.

If Shields development follows the path that Williams' did, Woodson's time in GB could end prematurely, too. I hope TT continues to find replacements at key positions who are ready to step in a season or two before the vet is ready to leave. That is how transitions from one to the other occur without significant fall off in performance.

This just in PATLER wants Woodson off of the Packers roster!! :lol:

No doubt, you want the next guy in place before the vet's career is over. I think Rodgers is a great example. He was able to learn the offense behind BF for years and when he stepped in he had a pretty smooth transition.

[RashanGary]

I fully understand the, "Packers did nothing wrong" sentiment. I buy it. But it's understandable that Harris is upset too. How quickly he gets over it and if he trys to retaliate are going to decide if he's in the wrong.

So far, he feels hurt (pride) and mistrust. I think that's pretty normal. The media gets him right after the cut and he's still feeling upset. . .


I don't think this is a huge issue. I don't think Al will make it one, but how he feels after getting cut. . . . We'd have to go through that to know how we'd feel. I know I'd handle it worse, so I don't even blink at what he said. It seems pretty normal. And I've listened to a lot of Harris interviews over the years. He's as honest and loyal of a guy as you'll find.

[Patler]

I fully understand the, "Packers did nothing wrong" sentiment. I buy it. But it's understandable that Harris is upset too. How quickly he gets over it and if he trys to retaliate are going to decide if he's in the wrong.

So far, he feels hurt (pride) and mistrust. I think that's pretty normal. The media gets him right after the cut and he's still feeling upset. . .


I don't think this is a huge issue. I don't think Al will make it one, but how he feels after getting cut. . . . We'd have to go through that to know how we'd feel. I know I'd handle it worse, so I don't even blink at what he said. It seems pretty normal. And I've listened to a lot of Harris interviews over the years. He's as honest and loyal of a guy as you'll find.

I agree completely, and I am not criticizing Harris because, so far at least, he has handled it well. But I still chuckle to myself every time an athlete, including Harris, says; "Gee, they cut ME!. I guess it really IS just a business!"

[denverYooper]

I think part of it is that the Packers, especially TT don't like to tip their hand in any way, so Al didn't think it was coming while he was practicing. The other part is that Al was told to prepare and practice like he would be the nickle-back. To him it meant they want him to play, to the Packers it meant that he was only worth keeping if he was the best option for #3 because he doesn't play ST.

If my guess is correct, I can't really find too much fault with the Packers handling of the situation, and I can't blame Al for being caught off-guard. No real winning options here.

It's unfortunately a bit of a downer, after coming into the bye week on a high not, but such is life in the NFL.

I think that is the actual context of the "They were definitely leading me on, telling me something else," quote that is left out of this article. I'm pretty sure I saw it in an earlier article in that context. I'm sure they wanted him to prepare, practice and compete for that spot and he was disappointed they didn't feel he qualified for it.

[pbmax]

Would you tell a veteran player who is trying to come back from injury that the only way we can keep you is if Woodson, Shields or Williams gets hurt or their performance collapses?

Or would you tell him he needs to prepare to play nickel and wait and see what happens with the roster?

If for no other reason, wouldn't you go with Option 2 to keep the pressure off Shields?

Thompson has a clear preference to developing his own players, so to devote on field preparation and practice to Harris would seem to indicate that he and McCarthy were serious. But that spot never opened up. Bigby's did the day Burnett got hurt.

As for the medical/performance angle, I do not think anyone can be trusted to report on their own motivation. So McCarthy could be saying it wasn't medical or performance for reasons that run from avoiding an injury settlement to helping Harris get tryouts.

[PA Pack Fan]

I suspect that in the near future this will rank among Ted's most regrettable decisions.


Hilarious! Would you just get a new avatar already?

[Tarlam!]

I suspect that in the near future this will rank among Ted's most regrettable decisions.


Hilarious! Would you just get a new avatar already?

What about the sig??

Ya, well, I'll always love AH for what he did.

[vince]

I don't think there's much to the notion that the Packers mishandled the situation. Obviously, Harris is miffed right now, but it will probably turn out for the best for him in terms of getting quality playing time this year.

What I think is questionable (although I don't subscribe to the argument) is whether the Packers could/should have kept him on the roster as insurance for injury to Williams, Woodson or Shields. There's little question that injuries at the CB position were a big part of the deathknell for the Packers last year. The argument I'm hearing is that they could have easily cut Nick McDonald and stashed him on the PS to have Harris on hand in case of injury.

First, the Packers have a history of losing linemen off their practice squad, and they obviously think McDonald is a keeper. Second, they already have a multi-million dollar vet taking up a valuable roster spot (Tausch is ready, but not playing) to protect against injury. Third, Harris likely wouldn't be happy in that role. Fourth, it's likely that Bush, Lee and Underwood are better special teamers than Harris at this juncture of their respective careers.

While Harris would be a great insurance policy against injury at the CB position, I tend to agree with the decision that this is the best move for everyone, including Al Harris.

[Bretsky]

On one hand, I'd rather have Al Harris on one leg than Jarrett Bush on two

But I'm sure Red is happy Bush is making it through another season :lol:

On the other hand, if Al was going to be the number four CB I'm sure TT did not want to pay him what he's getting so here comes the business side we all hate

It is upsetting that Harris felt like he was not communicated with well enough

[pbmax]

On one hand, I'd rather have Al Harris on one leg than Jarrett Bush on two

But I'm sure Red is happy Bush is making it through another season :lol:

On the other hand, if Al was going to be the number four CB I'm sure TT did not want to pay him what he's getting so here comes the business side we all hate

It is upsetting that Harris felt like he was not communicated with well enough
But even accounting for further injuries, how much would Harris play as the 4th corner? Bush is on every special team unit and while Bush in pass coverage is frightening, Harris on kickoff coverage is just as scary.

[pbmax]

Al has cleared waivers. Jack Bechta said he is negotiating with several teams.

[Patler]

On one hand, I'd rather have Al Harris on one leg than Jarrett Bush on two

But I'm sure Red is happy Bush is making it through another season :lol:

On the other hand, if Al was going to be the number four CB I'm sure TT did not want to pay him what he's getting so here comes the business side we all hate

It is upsetting that Harris felt like he was not communicated with well enough
But even accounting for further injuries, how much would Harris play as the 4th corner? Bush is on every special team unit and while Bush in pass coverage is frightening, Harris on kickoff coverage is just as scary.

If Harris was not to be the 3rd corner, and would be kept as "insurance" he would have been a game day inactive due to ST considerations. How would that have gone over?

[Bretsky]

On one hand, I'd rather have Al Harris on one leg than Jarrett Bush on two

But I'm sure Red is happy Bush is making it through another season :lol:

On the other hand, if Al was going to be the number four CB I'm sure TT did not want to pay him what he's getting so here comes the business side we all hate

It is upsetting that Harris felt like he was not communicated with well enough
But even accounting for further injuries, how much would Harris play as the 4th corner? Bush is on every special team unit and while Bush in pass coverage is frightening, Harris on kickoff coverage is just as scary.

If he's near healthy Al Harris helps this team; if he's not we saved some loot

IMO Bush is replaceable on specials

It comes down to whether Al Harris can provide the leadership and depth to help this team and whether that was worth some coin to the Packers

[vince]

Money is always a factor, but I personally disagree witht he notion that this was primarily a financial decision. This was about the 53 and 45 man roster. Shields has been surprisingly better than solid at nickel, and Bush has been the same on ST.

I've been as big a Bush basher as the next guy, but you have to say that, so long as he doesn't have to play defense, he's been very good on ST this year. It's a stretch in my opinion to say that Harris would be better on ST. Plus he wouldn't be happy there.

[Joemailman]

I think having Al Harris as your #4 CB would have been a difficult situation. It would have been difficult for Al who wants to play regularly. It would be difficult for Sam Shields, who would be keeping a fan favorite and team leader on the bench. If the Packers had told Al that he could stay in Green Bay, but would not be in the base or nickel defense, I'm not sure he would have wanted to stay.

[Patler]

IMO Bush is replaceable on specials



I wonder about that. I think it was Bedard who commented on a camp day dedicated to STs that Bush was head and shoulders above everyone else in all the drills they did. He said all the Bush-haters wouldn't want to hear it, but Bush's roster spot was pretty secure.

Maybe he really was worth the multi-million dollar contract.

[pbmax]

It cannot be about money if Demovsky is right at the GB Press Gazette. The Packers have paid Harris 9/16 of his salary already. The remaining balance is just over $1 million.