2011 - Roster

[Patler]

OK, I'm bored, so I started looking ahead to 2011, with everyone healthy and back (I hope). Some areas of real strength and experience:

Safety - 4 starters! Collins, Burnett, Bigby, Peprah. Couldn't ask for much better depth. However, Bigby could be playing somewhere else if he isn't re-signed, but still looks good even if he is gone.

D-line - Pickett, Raji, Jenkins, Neal, Green and Wilson. Competition from Harrell (I hope) Wynn and probably a draft pick. Do the Packers let Jenkins walk, and rely on Neal & Wilson? Does Jenkins even want to be back, or will he look for a 4-3 team? Either way, with or w/o Jenkins it looks like a position of strength, but I sure hope Jenkins sticks around.

TE - same as last camp, but Quarless and Crabtree with a years experience. Another area of strength.

RB/FB - a wealth of experience and versatility. Starks is an unknown, but will gain valuable experience this year and could add a new dimension to the offense. A big back with decent speed who catches the ball (127 career receptions in 3 seasons, 52 as a junior).

Areas of concern:

Cornerback - you can never have enough, and how long before Woodson isn't the answer at one spot? Williams and Shields look strong, but still have to prove consistency. Lee? Underwood? Bush? Probably OK as 4th or 5th corners and ST contributors; but not destined for the top 3.

LB - Lots and lots of questions, but players with lots of experience, too. Will Bishop be back? Will Hawk be back? Will Jones ever be healthy? Need some more contributors here, for sure.

O-line - lots of uncertainty here. Can Clifton hold together for another years? Is Tauscher done? I suspect he is. Will Colledge be back, and how will he play? Will Spitz be back? What's going on with Lang? Did the Packers keep McDonald for a reason that will show itself next year? Is Newhouse a player?

WR - The big questions, Driver's age/durability and Jones' future in GB? I would like to see a new guy here next season.

QB - time to bring in the eventual replacement for Matt Flynn.


So - what would I like from the draft? 1 or more corner, LB, G, T, QB and WR.

What will TT probably draft? D-line, safeties and TEs :lol: :wink:

[curtis loew]

Don't forget Jolly on the D line

[The Shadow]

Ok, here's what I think will be the priorities:

Greatest :
- an outside linebacker to pair with Mathews
- a bigtime running back
- a talented corner (you can never have enough!)

Depending on the best value at where you pick in the draft, of course.

Lesser :
- another o lineman to groom
- a WR to eventually fill the space left by Driver

[Bossman641]

The 2 areas I am most interested in are the DL and LB's. I would love to keep Jenkins but I think it will be tough to sign him. I think that Jenkins/Raji/Pickett/Neal/Green/Wilson is as good of a rotation as you will find in the league. Then there is the possibility Jolly will be back as well.

My wishlist is 1) OLB to pair with CM3, 2) corner, 3) WR.

This defense would be lights out with a more explosive player opposite Matthews.

[Scott Campbell]

Don't forget Jolly on the D line


I give Jolly a better chance of being on the team than I do Harrell. That said, I'd like a DE in the first round. I say that every year.

[Scott Campbell]

OK, I'm bored.......


The inevitable downside to a bye week.

[Tony Oday]

I want the following:

1. Kicker
2. CB
3. LT or RT
4. Returner
5. ST coach
6. OLB pass rusher

[Patler]

I completely forgot about Jolly! Assuming he has kept his nose clean and returns, that could really lighten the blow of Jenkins' departure, which I expect will happen not because TT won't want to sign him, but because I don't think Jenkins wants to be in a 3-4 anymore than Kampman did. Hope I'm wrong!

Could be a real nice D-line rotation.

[Patler]

I want the following:

1. Kicker
2. CB
3. LT or RT
4. Returner
5. ST coach
6. OLB pass rusher

Kicker is #1 on your list. Why, because he "doinked" a 54 yard attempt and the Packers lost?

[Scott Campbell]

I completely forgot about Jolly! Assuming he has kept his nose clean and returns, that could really lighten the blow of Jenkins' departure, which I expect will happen not because TT won't want to sign him, but because I don't think Jenkins wants to be in a 3-4 anymore than Kampman did. Hope I'm wrong!

Could be a real nice D-line rotation.


Is Jenkins worthy of one of the tags?

[Joemailman]

Don't forget Jolly on the D line


I give Jolly a better chance of being on the team than I do Harrell. That said, I'd like a DE in the first round. I say that every year.

Well, I probably have as good a chance of being on the team as Harrell. Still think it's a long shot for Jolly unless he's a changed man. Jolly is now in a position where he would likely be suspended by the league even for something minor as a bar fight. I think TT will be hesitant to bring him back, despite his talent.

[Patler]

I am actually most concerned about the O-line.

Tauscher is done, I suspect.
Not sure if there is enough tape to keep Clifton together for another year.
Spitz lost his starting spot(s) so will probably leave as a FA.
Colledge? Might leave, or might stay and play like 2009.
Wells has been fine the last two seasons, but was hurt a lot before that. I worry.
Lang? Newhouse? McDonald?

Basically, I see two set players, Sitton at RG and Bulaga at one of the tackles.
Beyond that a lot of questions,

At any rate the O-line needs depth because I do not expect Tauscher and at least one, maybe two of Colledge, Wells and Spitz to return.

[Patler]

I completely forgot about Jolly! Assuming he has kept his nose clean and returns, that could really lighten the blow of Jenkins' departure, which I expect will happen not because TT won't want to sign him, but because I don't think Jenkins wants to be in a 3-4 anymore than Kampman did. Hope I'm wrong!

Could be a real nice D-line rotation.


Is Jenkins worthy of one of the tags?

Good question. If Pickett was I don't see why Jenkins wouldn't be, too.

[Scott Campbell]

I completely forgot about Jolly! Assuming he has kept his nose clean and returns, that could really lighten the blow of Jenkins' departure, which I expect will happen not because TT won't want to sign him, but because I don't think Jenkins wants to be in a 3-4 anymore than Kampman did. Hope I'm wrong!

Could be a real nice D-line rotation.


Is Jenkins worthy of one of the tags?

Good question. If Pickett was I don't see why Jenkins wouldn't be, too.


Outside of this year, Pickett's been the more durable player. That's really my only gripe on Jenkins, as it seems like he's rarely been at 100%. He's played while dinged up, but not up to his full capabilities.

[Tony Oday]

I want the following:

1. Kicker
2. CB
3. LT or RT
4. Returner
5. ST coach
6. OLB pass rusher

Kicker is #1 on your list. Why, because he "doinked" a 54 yard attempt and the Packers lost?

You know the stats better than I, Understatement of the year, but isnt Crosby a lifetime sub 80% kicker and 1-11 or something like that in game winners?

[Lurker64]

The thing to keep in mind with Kickers is you only boot your guy if you think you can get somebody better. The kickers in the draft don't seem to be an upgrade over Crosby (Forbath from UCLA is probably the consensus #1, and he's not even as special in college as Crosby was) and I don't anticipate a lot of free agent movement in the kicking department.

We might bring a second kicker into camp, if the roster limits are increased from 80 in the CBA negotations (they were allowed to drop down to 80 after the NFLE exemption expired, because the League wanted "bigger rosters" to be a concession that they didn't mind giving up in negotiations).

[RashanGary]

Colledge has finally been consistent. Bulaga is good. Wells is good. Sitton is excellent.

We'll be in search of a starter. With that in mind, I can see your concern. We'll be looking for one starter and it's going to be hard to keep Spitz around as a backup. Someone will pay him to start.


If Lang happens to step up and take over as starting RG and we draft some depth, we'll be in solid shape, but that requires Lang actually stepping up (something far from proven) and us drafting quality depth (no guarantee). It could be a weak spot.

I don't expect disaster, but injury could make it that pretty quick I guess.

[steve823]

Patler, I hope you're wrong. Jenkins a a great 3-4 end. He stout against the run and rushes the passer So I'm hoping TT throws a big front-loaded contract at him.

[Patler]

I want the following:

1. Kicker
2. CB
3. LT or RT
4. Returner
5. ST coach
6. OLB pass rusher

Kicker is #1 on your list. Why, because he "doinked" a 54 yard attempt and the Packers lost?

You know the stats better than I, Understatement of the year, but isnt Crosby a lifetime sub 80% kicker and 1-11 or something like that in game winners?

Yes, Crosby is a sub-80% kicker, but I will pound this drum again. - He attempts more long kicks than most other kickers. In his career he has 127 attempts, and 55 of them have been from 40 yards and farther. 21 of them have been from 50+.

In 3 1/2 years, MM has run him out there 21 times for kicks 50 yards and longer. (In 5 1/2 years Robbie Gould has just 7 attempts from 50+, In 13 1/2 years, Longwell has tried 36, 14 since joining the Vikings and being in the Dome.) Crosby has made 10 of the 21, but his attempts include a bunch from 55+ and one from 65, or whatever it was. When one of every 6 attempts is from 50+ and darn near half are from 40+, his success rate will be lower than those who rarely attempted from 45+, and there are quite a few of those (see Robby Gould, for example).

Longwell has 36 at 50+ in 396 total attempts. One of every 11 attempts.
Crosby has 21 at 50+ in 127 total attempts. One of every 6 attempts.

By using Crosby the way he has, MM has made him look worse than he really is.

I think Crosby could be more "clutch", but that often comes with age and experience. I would be surprised if he has had 11 game winning opportunities, but maybe he has. I will admit he has missed a few. Funny thing is, his very first game as a pro he tied and won with late game kicks. The 56 yarder that hit the upright earlier this year has to have been frustrating for him, especially since he had so much distance on it. It hit 1/2 to 2/3 of the way up the upright. Looked like it was headed to be right down the middle until late in the kick when it took a sharp hook.

I hope Masthay is the answer as a punter, so Crosby can have some consistency in his holders. I looked back at it this off season, and he has had something like 10-12 holders in TC, and I think 5 different holders in regular season games. That sure doesn't help consistency.

[Scott Campbell]

Crosby is a weapon that most teams don't have. He's a keeper.

[Patler]

Patler, I hope you're wrong. Jenkins a a great 3-4 end. He stout against the run and rushes the passer So I'm hoping TT throws a big front-loaded contract at him.

Ya, I hope he stays, too. I just remember last year and this off season when he said being an end in a 3-4 is not something that any pass rushing end wants to do. The kicker was when he mentioned something about 3-4 ends not getting paid the way 4-3 ends do. I have this feeling he may not give the Packers much of a chance to sign him if a 4-3 team shows interest.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Thanks Patler for the Crosby love. I think there's no need to bring in another kicker for competition.

[Joemailman]

I wonder if the people who want to get rid of Crosby also wanted TT to get rid of Jon Ryan.

[3irty1]

I imagine that Jenkins will draw a franchise tag and may then be dealt. A talent like that doesn't simply walk. If Jenkins stays then the DL should remain a major strength.

The OL has put the first leg through the pants of rebuilding by placing Tauscher on IR. I doubt he ever starts again for the Packers. At this point I believe Bulaga's future is still at LT. Spitz will certainly leave. College will likely be back. I see an inevitable showdown between Lang and Newhouse for the RT spot long term. I won't rule out the possibility that the Packers draft an OT high which could mean Bulaga stays at RT.

If I had to rate our draft priorities:
1. OLB - weakest starter on the defense is the guy opposite of Clay right now. Also would put Zombo and Jones into a more appropriately roll as backups/special teamers. With how often we are in nickle I could even justify drafting a pure pass rusher who is platooned with Brad Jones and is rarely asked to cover.

2. WR - Seriously. The future replacement for the future is not on the team unless that guy is Brett Swain. Seems like having a WR who excels in the role of slow WR is a growing trend in this league and our guy is Donald Driver. Its time to get an insurance policy. The nice thing about players in this mold is that they are often great return men as well: Percy Harvin, Wes Welker, etc. A guy like this is a need for the offense IMO.

3. OT - For the reasons mentioned above.

4. DE - I've already got a Justin Harrelly feeling about Neal. Wilson seems like a major find but another guy is needed for this rotation. Having Jolly back would be huge and would allow Pickett to spell Raji. If Jolly comes back then this drops down to 5.

5. CB - I don't think we're as bad off here as one might think. In Woodson's current role he should be able to play for a few more years. Sam Shields has no ceiling and none of the remaining young guys look particularly bad. I doubt that the Packers select a CB unless they find great value in the high rounds (unlikely looking back at all the reaches for CB talent in 2010) or they grab a guy who can return punts and has upside as a CB.

[Guiness]

I imagine that Jenkins will draw a franchise tag and may then be dealt. A talent like that doesn't simply walk. If Jenkins stays then the DL should remain a major strength.

The OL has put the first leg through the pants of rebuilding by placing Tauscher on IR. I doubt he ever starts again for the Packers. At this point I believe Bulaga's future is still at LT. Spitz will certainly leave. College will likely be back. I see an inevitable showdown between Lang and Newhouse for the RT spot long term. I won't rule out the possibility that the Packers draft an OT high which could mean Bulaga stays at RT.

If I had to rate our draft priorities:
1. OLB - weakest starter on the defense is the guy opposite of Clay right now. Also would put Zombo and Jones into a more appropriately roll as backups/special teamers. With how often we are in nickle I could even justify drafting a pure pass rusher who is platooned with Brad Jones and is rarely asked to cover.

2. WR - Seriously. The future replacement for the future is not on the team unless that guy is Brett Swain. Seems like having a WR who excels in the role of slow WR is a growing trend in this league and our guy is Donald Driver. Its time to get an insurance policy. The nice thing about players in this mold is that they are often great return men as well: Percy Harvin, Wes Welker, etc. A guy like this is a need for the offense IMO.

3. OT - For the reasons mentioned above.

4. DE - I've already got a Justin Harrelly feeling about Neal. Wilson seems like a major find but another guy is needed for this rotation. Having Jolly back would be huge and would allow Pickett to spell Raji. If Jolly comes back then this drops down to 5.

5. CB - I don't think we're as bad off here as one might think. In Woodson's current role he should be able to play for a few more years. Sam Shields has no ceiling and none of the remaining young guys look particularly bad. I doubt that the Packers select a CB unless they find great value in the high rounds (unlikely looking back at all the reaches for CB talent in 2010) or they grab a guy who can return punts and has upside as a CB.

Good post 31. I really hope you're out to lunch on Neale though!

Everyone seems to think we need another pass rusher opposite CM, and I wonder about that. How many teams have to legitimate rushers, one from each side? If we just get someone who's solid over there, and can play both sides (so CM can move around) I think we'll be ok. With Chillar back, can't he play outside? I thought he did before. I don't think we're too bad off with him.

[steve823]

Guiness, just think of the Steelers. They have had a dominant defense for years and their secondary is average at best (except Polamalu of course). Their corners are nothing special ,but because they always have 2 great pass rushing OLB's , they got constant pressure. Now the Packers don't need an OLB, but it would really take this defense to the next level and make them a legitimate defense for years to come. I think it'll also allow Dom to get more creative with his blitzing schemes since they can't all focus on Clay if we have another good pass rushing OLB.

Another example is the Vikings. Their D-line used to be dominate and it hid their horrible secondary , but now that their D-line is struggling the whole defense tanked. Imagine what the Pack could do with a lot of pressure + a great secondary.

Just my 2 cents.

[3irty1]

I agree with this when it comes to the 3-4. In the 3-4, except on blitzes where you'd be sending 5+, the OLB opposite Clay will mostly be holding the point against the run and playing in coverage. Brad Jones is just about perfect here and is even an above average threat to rush the passer. We spend the majority of our time in a 2-4 nickel defense which sends both OLB at the same time just to have a four man rush. A larger converted DE type of player would be about perfect here. Ideally the Packers find a KGB type player in the middle rounds of the draft to fill this need as a situation pass rusher.

[Oscar]

Nice post 31. Your points made in parts 2 and 5 really stand out with me. We have Shields returning kicks for now and maybe he is the future there. But, having Tramon Williams returning punts scares me the same way as when Woodson was back there. I hope we find a pure return specialist/#5WR or CB.

Edit.. Forgot about Lee returning kicks. Still hope we find a replacement.

[Guiness]

I wonder how KGB would've looked as a 3-4 OLB?

He might've been a monster, but then again, he might've looked like Kampman.

[3irty1]

KGB in his prime would have been a great fit and might even be still playing today had he landed with a 3-4 team.

Personally I think Kampman's lack of success in our 3-4 wasn't because he was miscast. Truth was he fell off hard for the 2nd half of 2008 too when he was still a DE. He wasn't good in coverage yeah but that wouldn't be such a big issue if he had been good enough at pass rushing that you couldn't not send him at the QB.