Crosby - an 83% kicker.

[Patler]

Yup, on kicks less than 50 yards he hits on 83%,(88 made in 106 attempts under 50 yards) which, per the following article, is very similar to Longwell's success under 50 yards.

http://m.packersnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20101118/PKR07/101118139/-1/WAP&template=wapart

Crosby is second only to Janikowski on the number of 50+ attempts since 2007. In his career, Janikowski is 27/53 on kicks over 50 yards, showing that Crosby's 10/21, or around 50% is all that can be expected from a guy who tries a lot of the long ones. I assume they try more at 50+ because they try the longer ones, from about 54 yards and farther, which many kickers have no hope of ever hitting and so never try except maybe in ideal conditions.

Interesting that Longwell calls Crosby a victim of his own leg strength, making his percentage appear worse than it really is.

I'm satisfied with a kicker who hits 83% of his kicks under 50 yards, with the leg strength to routinely try anything under 60 and having a 50/50 chance of making it from 50-60 yards out. Especially when he also gives you the strength to try from beyond 60 when the situation allows for it.

[Fritz]

I'm satisfied, theoretically speaking, but if he misses a potential game-winner from 51 yards out in a dome I'm going to want them to cut him immediately.

[Bretsky]

I'm surpirsed more don't see Crosby as an above average kicker

[Patler]

It's really interesting to compare Crosby and Janikowski. Very similar numbers.

Janikowski's attempts at 50+ make up 16.5% of his total attempts (53/321).
Crosby's attempts at 50+ make up 16.5% of his total attempts (21/127).

Janikowski has made 83.6% of his kicks under 50 yards (224/268).
Crosby has made 83.0 of his kicks under 50 yards (88/106).

Janikowski has made 78.2% of his kicks overall (251/321).
Crosby has made 77.2% of his kicks overall (98/127).

Janikowski has made a 61 yard kick.
Crosby came up just short on a 69 yard attempt in 22-degree weather on 12/28 outside in Green Bay.

[3irty1]

Fans give more weight to the intangible "clutchness" characteristic of a kicker rather than leg strength. The guy has yet to make a "game winner" in a clutch situation but has missed a few in those situations. Personally I absolved him of all sins after the onside kick against Arizona which was the most beautiful onside kick I've ever seen.

[3irty1]

Wasn't Janikowski a first round pick? That's impossible to comprehend.

[mmmdk]

Mason Crosby and his career stats:
FG: 0-19, 3-3, 100% - what you expect.
FG: 20-29, 33-33, 100% - what you expect but really good too.
FG: 30-39, 29-36, 80,6% - Average.
FG: 40-49, 23-34, 67,6% - Below average.
FG: 50+, 10-21, 47,6% - Average.

I think Crosby has the potential to be an above average kicker when he gets more accurate from 30-49 yard range and more clutch. The leg is there but accuracy shaky beyond the 30-something range which is 71,7% of all his kicks!!!!

Surprised that's not obvious but Crosby ain't the worst you can get.

Conclusion:
Mason has reached the average level & he's hopefully ready to jump to the above average level.

[3irty1]

Fans give more weight to the intangible "clutchness" characteristic of a kicker rather than leg strength. The guy has yet to make a "game winner" in a clutch situation but has missed a few in those situations. Personally I absolved him of all sins after the onside kick against Arizona which was the most beautiful onside kick I've ever seen.

I might take that back... In his first game ever, and ugly game against PHI in 2007, didn't he kick a game winner?

[Patler]

Fans give more weight to the intangible "clutchness" characteristic of a kicker rather than leg strength. The guy has yet to make a "game winner" in a clutch situation but has missed a few in those situations. Personally I absolved him of all sins after the onside kick against Arizona which was the most beautiful onside kick I've ever seen.

Actually, he has made a clutch kick. He made a game-winning 42 yard kick with 2 seconds left in his first regular season game as a rookie against Philadelphia. He was 3/3 that day and made his first ever attempt in a regular season game, good from 53 yards.

I read another article that said he has only had four game-winning opportunities, and has made one. The one game that really kills me was against the Vikings, when he made a "game winner" with a little time left in the 4th, the defense gave it right back to Adrian Peterson in just a handful of plays, the Packers then drove steadily, only to have MM pull in his horns, run down the clock and try a 52 yard FG to win. Crosby just missed. Another few yards could have made a big difference.

[mmmdk]

I just checked several NFL kickers Crosby and his stats resemble ex-Steeler Jeff Reed but even he's slightly better than Crosby. Longwell is on another level than Crosby and the elite kickers through history is something Crosby can only dream of. Crosby might, I said might, reach 1 pro bowl in his career but that's a reach - unless he improves accuracy & clutchness. Big task ahead, I'd say.

[Scott Campbell]

Wasn't Janikowski a first round pick? That's impossible to comprehend.


Guys with that kind of leg strength seem like a once in a decade opportunity.

[pbmax]

Its the numbers from 30-49 that are bothersome. There is no question his total accuracy is affected by McCarthy's penchant for trying 50 yarders with him. But he should have better numbers in the mid-range. The right hash mark issue covers many of those mid-range misses.

[mmmdk]

FGs from 0-29 Crosby is deadly - 100%! FGs from 30-49 only 74,3%.

What a homer article.

Jeff Reed kicks 80,3% from 30-49 yards out.

Actually, it's kind of homer-like to even call Crosby average yet I did but only 'cos he's improved...slightly.

[Fritz]

Hasn't his right-hash problem been corrected this year?

[channtheman]

Anything with Crosby from 40 yards and farther is hardly a guarantee. Also, his clutch kicking (though yes, he has had to attempt really long field goals) leaves something to be desired as well. I would prefer Crosby miss the no pressure 56 yard field goal against Philly and then make the total pressure win the game kick against Washington. He almost always misses those game winners and something tells me that if we had the ball 5 yards closer he would still miss it by a yard.

[Patler]

I just checked several NFL kickers Crosby and his stats resemble ex-Steeler Jeff Reed but even he's slightly better than Crosby. Longwell is on another level than Crosby and the elite kickers through history is something Crosby can only dream of. Crosby might, I said might, reach 1 pro bowl in his career but that's a reach - unless he improves accuracy & clutchness. Big task ahead, I'd say.

OK. Lets look at Longwell's first 4 years in GB:

In 64 games, Longwell was 111/131.
In 57 games, Crosby is 98/127.

But, if you remember those years, Longwell missed all his game winning chances early in his career, and rarely tried anything beyond 45 yards. His longest in his second season was just 45 yards. Sometimes they passed on 45-50 yard opportunities, punting instead. In 64 games Longwell was 5/9 at 50+. Crosby in 57 games is 10/21 at 50+, and has already made more than Longwell even tried in his first four years. Crosby's longest by season are 53, 53, 52, 56. Longwell's longest were 50, 45, 50, 52).

Longwell went nuts in '08 and '09 in Minnesota, going 8/8 at 50+. In the 11 years before that he was 14/28 at 50+. Basically, the same success rate as Crosby, but trying them a whol lot less often. Longwell has not tried a 50+ this season.

Crosby ran out on 12/28/2008 in 22 degree temperatures in Green Bay to try a 69 yarder because his coach asked him to, and he wanted to. Do you think Longwell would have tried that? Longwell used to decline long attempts late in the season because Sherman gave him the choice.

[mmmdk]

Hasn't his right-hash problem been corrected this year?

You tell me; Crosby is 7-10 on FGs from 30-49 yards, that's 70% - below his career avg. in 30-49 range (74,3%). The more one delves into Crosbys stats...well, let's just say that we're "happy" with our average, at best, kicker.

[Patler]

So would you all prefer him to be better at 30-49, but worse under 30?
Under 50 yards, he makes 83%. What's wrong with that?

[Patler]

A factor not to be ignored is that Crosby has also had 5 different regular season holders in less than 4 full seasons. Each year he has started the season with a new holder, and he himself is a young kicker learning the NFL. His holders for the most part were novices at the job themselves. Most off seasons he has worked with several holders competing for the punting job.

To some extent, Crosby has suffered because the Packers have been so unsettled and so inexperienced in the punting game. That has spilled over into instability in the kicking game, with inexperienced, first year punters under roster pressure because they are punting poorly also trying to calmly hold for FGs. It has often been said that Matt Flynn has been the best holder available the last three seasons, but the coaching staff doesn't like to use the backup QB. Heck, holding is what kept Doug Pederson in the NFL for so long.

[mmmdk]

OK. Lets look at Longwell's first 4 years in GB:

In 64 games, Longwell was 111/131.
In 57 games, Crosby is 98/127.

But, if you remember those years, Longwell missed all his game winning chances early in his career, and rarely tried anything beyond 45 yards. His longest in his second season was just 45 yards. Sometimes they passed on 45-50 yard opportunities, punting instead. In 64 games Longwell was 5/9 at 50+. Crosby in 57 games is 10/21 at 50+, and has already made more than Longwell even tried in his first four years. Crosby's longest by season are 53, 53, 52, 56. Longwell's longest were 50, 45, 50, 52).

Longwell went nuts in '08 and '09 in Minnesota, going 8/8 at 50+. In the 11 years before that he was 14/28 at 50+. Basically, the same success rate as Crosby, but trying them a whol lot less often. Longwell has not tried a 50+ this season.

Crosby ran out on 12/28/2008 in 22 degree temperatures in Green Bay to try a 69 yarder because his coach asked him to, and he wanted to. Do you think Longwell would have tried that? Longwell used to decline long attempts late in the season because Sherman gave him the choice.

Longwell > Crosby in first 4 years too and that 69 yarder was a one hit call, I believe. Longwell is not stupid, I guess, for not kicking a 69 yarder. Pretty smart, I'd say. Then again, Stubby & Crosby ain't my cup of tea. I sometimes kringe at his lack of concentration; it seems like he does kick through with his whole body - that's technique too.

With the above said; I think Crosby can get better - but if there's something I do consider myself more knowledgeable about concerning Foosball then it's the kicking game. I'm a "soccer" for that and I've met Danish kicker Morten Andersen several times too. I even tried out as a kicker with Danish Am. Football team called Aarhus Tigers; I had accuracy but not enough leg, especially on kick offs. I ended up playing TE for half a season but I found out I had a "glass" neck, so back to soccer I went. That was in 1994/95.

[pbmax]

To do this justice, we would to split stats by outdoors and distance for the league.

But for one example, Longwell, in his time at Green Bay was 71.7% from 40-49. Crosby is 67.6%. I would like those four percentage points.

Being an 83% kicker from under 50 would put him 14th in the league's overall FG% standings. Dead average when compared to all other teams even when including their 50+ yard kicks. I want that under 50 percentage higher. I could be persuaded with league averages for outdoor versus indoor kicking that show Crosby is above average for outdoor under 50 yard kicks.

But give his success indoors, I think his numbers will still be average versus other outdoor kickers.

I like everything about Crosby except the mid range accuracy.

[mmmdk]

A factor not to be ignored is that Crosby has also had 5 different regular season holders in less than 4 full seasons. Each year he has started the season with a new holder, and he himself is a young kicker learning the NFL. His holders for the most part were novices at the job themselves. Most off seasons he has worked with several holders competing for the punting job.

To some extent, Crosby has suffered because the Packers have been so unsettled and so inexperienced in the punting game. That has spilled over into instability in the kicking game, with inexperienced, first year punters under roster pressure because they are punting poorly also trying to calmly hold for FGs. It has often been said that Matt Flynn has been the best holder available the last three seasons, but the coaching staff doesn't like to use the backup QB. Heck, holding is what kept Doug Pederson in the NFL for so long.

That makes more sense, Patler - rather than gilding his average (at best) accuracy & clutchness. I could mention 15-20 NFL kickers I'd prefer ('cos they're better) or at least say are on par with Crosby.

Raiders say: Commitment to Excellence,

is this a commitment to average??? Just kiddin'!

I've said & documented what I wanted to say on Crosby; let's hope he' getting better. Hurray!!

[pbmax]

A factor not to be ignored is that Crosby has also had 5 different regular season holders in less than 4 full seasons. Each year he has started the season with a new holder, and he himself is a young kicker learning the NFL. His holders for the most part were novices at the job themselves. Most off seasons he has worked with several holders competing for the punting job.

To some extent, Crosby has suffered because the Packers have been so unsettled and so inexperienced in the punting game. That has spilled over into instability in the kicking game, with inexperienced, first year punters under roster pressure because they are punting poorly also trying to calmly hold for FGs. It has often been said that Matt Flynn has been the best holder available the last three seasons, but the coaching staff doesn't like to use the backup QB. Heck, holding is what kept Doug Pederson in the NFL for so long.

This is undoubtedly not helpful. But only time will tell exactly how much this cost him.

[mmmdk]

To do this justice, we would to split stats by outdoors and distance for the league.

But for one example, Longwell, in his time at Green Bay was 71.7% from 40-49. Crosby is 67.6%. I would like those four percentage points.

Being an 83% kicker from under 50 would put him 14th in the league's overall FG% standings. Dead average when compared to all other teams even when including their 50+ yard kicks. I want that under 50 percentage higher. I could be persuaded by numbers for league averages outdoor vs. indoor that show Crosby is above average for outdoor under 50 yard kicks.

But give his success indoors, I think his numbers will still be average even when only compared to outdoor kickers.

I like everything about Crosby except the mid range accuracy.

I agree with 84% of your post - still beats Crosby from under 50 yards....LOL. Couldn't resist!!!

[Patler]

Heck, Longwell used to decline 45-50 yard attempts, too. I remember back on the old JSO site when people tore into him for refusing a game winning attempt at just over 40 late one season, because Sherman gave him the option and he said the wind was too strong. Maybe it was, but the whole idea of leaving it up to Longwell as much as Sherman did was a little unsettling, especially since Longwell was very %-conscious.

Were you a Packer follower in the early Longwell years? I remember year after year the articles about needing to replace him because he had made no game winners and had no range. His leg got stronger, and gradually he tried more long kicks, at least early in the seasons.

Did you see the 69 yarder that Crosby missed? Great accuracy, but just short. Heck of a kick, really. It was a smart attempt, even if a long shot at success. Last play of the 1st half and a free kick following a fair catch on a punt. The Packers did that once years and years ago, too, in the '60s or '70s as I recall.

[Patler]

This is undoubtedly not helpful. But only time will tell exactly how much this cost him.

Agreed, but a kick year so far when he has relatively few attempts makes a difference in his stats.

All in all, the Packers give all phases of STs only lip service, in my opinion. Some teams look for return specialists, accomplished and experienced holders, and experienced punters and kickers when they are available. TT seems willing to roll the dice on all of those positions. Maybe its a good gamble, I don't know.

[3irty1]

A factor not to be ignored is that Crosby has also had 5 different regular season holders in less than 4 full seasons. Each year he has started the season with a new holder, and he himself is a young kicker learning the NFL. His holders for the most part were novices at the job themselves. Most off seasons he has worked with several holders competing for the punting job.

To some extent, Crosby has suffered because the Packers have been so unsettled and so inexperienced in the punting game. That has spilled over into instability in the kicking game, with inexperienced, first year punters under roster pressure because they are punting poorly also trying to calmly hold for FGs. It has often been said that Matt Flynn has been the best holder available the last three seasons, but the coaching staff doesn't like to use the backup QB. Heck, holding is what kept Doug Pederson in the NFL for so long.

I credit Doug Pederson with every field goal that Longwell ever made in Green Bay. He would throw the ball with his wrist through the uprights and if you zoom in with high speed cameras you can see that Longwell's foot never even touched the ball. Longwell was a diva and a crybaby and wanted to play in a dome.

Really though, Crosby's leg strength, competitiveness, and attitude make him every bit the kicker that Longwell was. Not to mention that sweet onside kick against AZ last year.

[Patler]

That makes more sense, Patler - rather than gilding his average (at best) accuracy & clutchness. I could mention 15-20 NFL kickers I'd prefer ('cos they're better) or at least say are on par with Crosby.

Raiders say: Commitment to Excellence,

is this a commitment to average??? Just kiddin'!

I've said & documented what I wanted to say on Crosby; let's hope he' getting better. Hurray!!

How do I make this thing quote more than just one comment???
(The above was mmmdk's reply to my post about multiple holders)

The Raiders have had Janikowski and Lechler together forever. Janikowski has worked mostly with one holder his whole career. That's true of a lot of kickers, like Gould for example, though not all by any means. I have to think that has affected Crosby somewhat, especially since it is early in his career.

I don't think I can find 15-20 I would take over Crosby, because I would also look at kickoffs. Crosby seems to have a good feel for onside kicks, has good strength when allowed to kick away, and is one of the better tackling kickers in the league from what limited exposure I have to them. He does tend to try to hug the sideline too much when they ask him to do that, and kicks too many out of bounds as a result, but overall I think is very solid on kickoffs.

Plus, I love his attitude of never blaming anyone. A refreshing change from Longwell in that regard!

[mmmdk]

Heck, Longwell used to decline 45-50 yard attempts, too. I remember back on the old JSO site when people tore into him for refusing a game winning attempt at just over 40 late one season, because Sherman gave him the option and he said the wind was too strong. Maybe it was, but the whole idea of leaving it up to Longwell as much as Sherman did was a little unsettling, especially since Longwell was very %-conscious.

Were you a Packer follower in the early Longwell years? I remember year after year the articles about needing to replace him because he had made no game winners and had no range. His leg got stronger, and gradually he tried more long kicks, at least early in the seasons.

Did you see the 69 yarder that Crosby missed? Great accuracy, but just short. Heck of a kick, really. It was a smart attempt, even if a long shot at success. Last play of the 1st half and a free kick following a fair catch on a punt. The Packers did that once years and years ago, too, in the '60s or '70s as I recall.

Majik made me a Packer fan during the 1989 season - I wrote the story on JSO too - I thought that was Packer rat legend by now??....hehe, guess not. I agree that Longwell wasn't classy but knowing your own strengths & weaknesses isn't a bad thing. Sometimes going on 4th down is better than kicking.

Fans are weird sometimes...I rate Majik & Rodgers highly in my Packer legend - way over that current Viking QB that once was a QB in GB. I even dig Lynn Dickey dvds towards...you know who.

Packer kickers? I've always been a fan Longwell as a kicker - even higher than Jacke & Crosby. I spoke a few words with Jan Stenerud in 2008 (Falcon game) at the Packer pro shop. He spoke norwegian & I danish, I could tell he was proud of his short Packer tenure & he emphasized the special thing GB had in Packers and the their world wide fans.

Packers are second favorite NFL team in Denmark - Vikings are # 1 and that's why I know actually hate the Vikes.

[mmmdk]

How do I make this thing quote more than just one comment???
(The above was mmmdk's reply to my post about multiple holders)

The Raiders have had Janikowski and Lechler together forever. Janikowski has worked mostly with one holder his whole career. That's true of a lot of kickers, like Gould for example, though not all by any means. I have to think that has affected Crosby somewhat, especially since it is early in his career.

I don't think I can find 15-20 I would take over Crosby, because I would also look at kickoffs. Crosby seems to have a good feel for onside kicks, has good strength when allowed to kick away, and is one of the better tackling kickers in the league from what limited exposure I have to them. He does tend to try to hug the sideline too much when they ask him to do that, and kicks too many out of bounds as a result, but overall I think is very solid on kickoffs.

Plus, I love his attitude of never blaming anyone. A refreshing change from Longwell in that regard!

I agree 100% on attitude and Longwell was a whiner; but a damn fine kicker.

If Packers can't get an elite kicker then working with [plus keeping] Crosby makes a ton of sense - as I've said - the potential is there for Crosby.

[Bretsky]

No way would I trade Crosby for 15 kickers. Perhaps he's average as a FG kicker; I'd still put him in the 8-12 range. But he's also one of the best kickoff guys in the NFL. He's the least of our ST nightmares IMO

[Tony Oday]

we need a kicker that can hit the game winner and that is not Crosby, he is the weakest link on the team.

[Brandon494]

Hes an average kicker was a great leg. There are 15-20 other kickers in the league I would rather have then Crosby.

[mmmdk]

No way would I trade Crosby for 15 kickers. Perhaps he's average as a FG kicker; I'd still put him in the 8-12 range. But he's also one of the best kickoff guys in the NFL. He's the least of our ST nightmares IMO

...as in 1 TB and 3 OOB kickoffs through 9 games in 2010? The 3 out-of-bounds kickoffs leads the league.

The more one checks Crosbys stats...the notion that "Crosby is an average kicker" label would kinda put him in the overrated category. To his defense, Mason has squib kicked it a lot. Slocum?

[CaptainKickass]

.

Is there any other kicker in the NFL besides Mason Dixon-Bing Crosby that "could" make a 69 yard FG?

Is the NFL record still a 63 yd FG?

The problem I felt with Ryan Longwell was that he never really lived up to his last name - "Longwell". Sure he kicked it "well", but not so much "long". There was even some knock on his notably short kickoffs.
I'll take Mason over Ryan last season and going forward. Youth, bigger leg, ascending player (or at least certainly not becoming worse)

[ThunderDan]

Packer kickers? I've always been a fan Longwell as a kicker - even higher than Jacke & Crosby. I spoke a few words with Jan Stenerud in 2008 (Falcon game) at the Packer pro shop. He spoke norwegian & I danish, I could tell he was proud of his short Packer tenure & he emphasized the special thing GB had in Packers and the their world wide fans.


My grandfather, on my mother's side who was Norweign, use to be friends with Jan. They would write letters back and forth in Norweign. Jan and I have the same birthday, November 26th. He use to send me birthday cards. My grandfather presided over a worship service when the King of Norway came and visited the USA. We head over to Decorah, IA each summer for Nordicfest.

[pbmax]

How do I make this thing quote more than just one comment???
(The above was mmmdk's reply to my post about multiple holders)

The Raiders have had Janikowski and Lechler together forever. Janikowski has worked mostly with one holder his whole career. That's true of a lot of kickers, like Gould for example, though not all by any means. I have to think that has affected Crosby somewhat, especially since it is early in his career.

I don't think I can find 15-20 I would take over Crosby, because I would also look at kickoffs. Crosby seems to have a good feel for onside kicks, has good strength when allowed to kick away, and is one of the better tackling kickers in the league from what limited exposure I have to them. He does tend to try to hug the sideline too much when they ask him to do that, and kicks too many out of bounds as a result, but overall I think is very solid on kickoffs.

Plus, I love his attitude of never blaming anyone. A refreshing change from Longwell in that regard!

I agree with all the above.

I ran Longwell's numbers for under 50 during his tenure in Green Bay. 226/277 overall, 226/255 from inside 50 for 83.5%

Crosby is 98/127 overall, 88/106 inside 50 for 83%

However, both numbers put their respective kicker in the bottom half of the league today. And that comparison is their less than 50 yard FGs versus the rest of the league's total FGs. Kicking has gotten increasingly accurate since Longwell's career started. Some of this could be dome teams and kickers. But of the 13 teams ahead, the Titans, Cardinals (retractable), Dolphins, Jaguars, Texans, Panthers, Browns, Broncos and 49ers do not play indoors.

There may be a Southern bias. I am open to someone breaking out the league averages by facility and weather. But the only splits I can find for those are for individuals.

[SlimPickens]

Heck, Longwell used to decline 45-50 yard attempts, too. I remember back on the old JSO site when people tore into him for refusing a game winning attempt at just over 40 late one season, because Sherman gave him the option and he said the wind was too strong. Maybe it was, but the whole idea of leaving it up to Longwell as much as Sherman did was a little unsettling, especially since Longwell was very %-conscious.

Were you a Packer follower in the early Longwell years? I remember year after year the articles about needing to replace him because he had made no game winners and had no range. His leg got stronger, and gradually he tried more long kicks, at least early in the seasons.

Did you see the 69 yarder that Crosby missed? Great accuracy, but just short. Heck of a kick, really. It was a smart attempt, even if a long shot at success. Last play of the 1st half and a free kick following a fair catch on a punt. The Packers did that once years and years ago, too, in the '60s or '70s as I recall.

Yes, Vince pulled that out of his hat. it was so obscure they had to pull out the rule book. I believe it was Hornung who kicked it but not sure, I was pretty young then but do remember it.

[Bretsky]

...as in 1 TB and 3 OOB kickoffs through 9 games in 2010? The 3 out-of-bounds kickoffs leads the league.

The more one checks Crosbys stats...the notion that "Crosby is an average kicker" label would kinda put him in the overrated category. To his defense, Mason has squib kicked it a lot. Slocum?


Who are your 15 then ??

[get louder at lambeau]

But of the 13 teams ahead, the Titans, Cardinals (retractable), Dolphins, Jaguars, Texans, Panthers, Browns, Broncos and 49ers do not play indoors.

Warm, warm, warm, warm, warm, warm, cold, altitude, warm. Every one but Cleveland has a clear advantage in kicking atmosphere over GB.

[swede]

It is a good day when Mason has four extra points for every field goal.

[pbmax]

Warm, warm, warm, warm, warm, warm, cold, altitude, warm. Every one but Cleveland has a clear advantage in kicking atmosphere over GB.

The 49ers might be warmer than Lambeau but if you include wind, its not exactly kicker friendly.

[mmmdk]

Who are your 15 then ??

Pretty much all kickers in front of Crosby - stat wise - and when you add clutchness then add a few more. When you add KO stats there are even more kickers that are better or on par with Crosby.

Lastly, I don't get your ire as I've pointed out that Crosby is getting better and he's worth keeping and working with; there are 32 NFL teams and I rank Crosby # 15-20 best kicker in NFL. That's not too shabby but your weird man love on Crosby is based on his potential alone and not his actual production. There's NOTHING easier than rating kickers; go have fun on nfl.com with the stats - those stats can't rescue Mason Crosby.

Ever so lastly, Crosby is getting slightly better - I'll give him a few season before making my final call on the dude.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Personally, I think anybody who thinks there are 15-20 kickers in the NFL that are better than Crosby is nuts.

Not really nuts, but nuts in the football intelligence sense. :)

[Tony Oday]

Can we fire him NOW?

[MJZiggy]

Can we fire him NOW?

No.

[Patler]

Can we fire him NOW?

Why?

[Tony Oday]

Why?


Because he cant kick a clutch kick to save his life? That would be the first reason.

[swede]

That blown kick did not cost us the game and I do not think we should fire him, but I think we should all agree to call him "Clank" for the rest of the season.

[swede]

...although I'd be open to "Clunk" or "Bonk!" as alternatives.

[pbmax]

All right Rats. Someone run the names (or cities) where the kicker can be said to be operating in adverse conditions. There are the obvious one: Cleveland, Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Cincinnati, Buffalo, Giants, Jets, Eagles, Jets, Patriots, Denver, Green Bay, Chicago.

Do Kansas City and San Francisco count? Let's decide and run the numbers to see of Crosby is near the top of cold/adverse weather kickers. Despite my earlier protestations, I think he is.

BTW, I vote for "Thunk".

[Joemailman]

With a frozen ball and a frozen goalpost, I think clank is better. Might have been thunk in September.

[vince]

Bonk.

[Patler]

Because he cant kick a clutch kick to save his life? That would be the first reason.

Who are you going to replace him with?

[Patler]

Even with his miss yesterday, the first of his career under 30 yards, Crosby is 92/111 under 50 yards. That's 82.88%.

[Scott Campbell]

What happened on that chip shot yesterday? I couldn't see the hold on the replay? Anyone from WI have some insight?

[Patler]

What happened on that chip shot yesterday? I couldn't see the hold on the replay? Anyone from WI have some insight?

The only comment I saw from one of the writers was that the whole play looked out of sync. The really didn't identify why.

[mmmdk]

Personally, I think anybody who thinks there are 15-20 kickers in the NFL that are better than Crosby is nuts.

Not really nuts, but nuts in the football intelligence sense. :)

Wow - what an insult...not! I'd say 20+ are better currently but Crosby just ain't playing at a high level plus where's the stats that backs Crosby up? I know! The stats doesn't exist. You'd have to nuts to claim that Crosby is a top 15 kicker, not really nuts, but nuts in the football intelligence sense.

:lol: No worries, Harvey, I think you're fine.

[mmmdk]

Who are you going to replace him with?

I've been after Crosby too but I agree with Pat 'cos there's no one out there other than a rookie sensation and I don't want to use a pick on a kicker. But I'm truely baffled by the ones praising Crosby...what has he done? He needs to become a better kicker...'cos Packers have SB talent on the roster and kickers are important in close games.

[pbmax]

One of the coaches (McCarthy I think) mentioned pressure up the B gap which caused a problem. But I am not sure how that affected the kick if it wasn't tipped.

[mmmdk]

Even with his miss yesterday, the first of his career under 30 yards, Crosby is 92/111 under 50 yards. That's 82.88%.

I made a fine argument with stats to back it up my view on Crosby in this thread; the above is like closing your eyes to facts/stats by using his stats in a biased way, or rather, not looking at the big Crosby picture.

[pbmax]

Wisconsin State Journal - Tom Oates - says it was a high snap that bungled the first FG attempt.

[Patler]

Wisconsin State Journal - Tom Oates - says it was a high snap that bungled the first FG attempt.

Interesting, because one of the extra point snaps was way off, too. Masthay did a nice job reaching behind him to get that one.

[denverYooper]

Interesting, because one of the extra point snaps was way off, too. Masthay did a nice job reaching behind him to get that one.

They should probably get Rob Davis out there to coach Goode up.

[Patler]

Even with his miss yesterday, the first of his career under 30 yards, Crosby is 92/111 under 50 yards. That's 82.88%.


I made a fine argument with stats to back it up my view on Crosby in this thread; the above is like closing your eyes to facts/stats by using his stats in a biased way, or rather, not looking at the big Crosby picture.

Using stats in a biased way? How? It is simply looking at his performance on all FGs less than 50 yards, which is what SHOULD be the vast majority of his attempts. Even Ryan Longwell commented about Crosby's overall stats being misleading because he tries so darned many ones over 50 yards.

It's a fact that he has hit on about 83% of his kicks under 50 yards. No fudging, no misleading, just the simple unadulterated stats. Have some of his misses come at bad times? Sure, without a doubt. But until the Packers use him in a more reasonable way, and let him have the same holder two years in a row, and maybe a holder who actually has some experience at holding, I think it would be foolish to throw Crosby away.

In some ways the Packers have done everything possible to make Crosby's job as hard as they can.

[mmmdk]

Using stats in a biased way? How? It is simply looking at his performance on all FGs less than 50 yards, which is what SHOULD be the vast majority of his attempts. Even Ryan Longwell commented about Crosby's overall stats being misleading because he tries so darned many ones over 50 yards.

It's a fact that he has hit on about 83% of his kicks under 50 yards. No fudging, no misleading, just the simple unadulterated stats. Have some of his misses come at bad times? Sure, without a doubt. But until the Packers use him in a more reasonable way, and let him have the same holder two years in a row, and maybe a holder who actually has some experience at holding, I think it would be foolish to throw Crosby away.

In some ways the Packers have done everything possible to make Crosby's job as hard as they can.


Ok, too harsh [by me]! Just look at what kicks Crosby makes and which ones he doesn't - that's what it's all about really.

Oh and I agree that Crosby is not to be thrown away but his potential is...just potential; Crosby has done nada to become an elite kicker. Lastly, elite kickers are rare and I'm riding Corsby hard 'cos the leg/talent is there but stats just kills his potential [at the moment]. I wish he'd jump out more.

[denverYooper]

A factor not to be ignored is that Crosby has also had 5 different regular season holders in less than 4 full seasons. Each year he has started the season with a new holder, and he himself is a young kicker learning the NFL. His holders for the most part were novices at the job themselves. Most off seasons he has worked with several holders competing for the punting job.

To some extent, Crosby has suffered because the Packers have been so unsettled and so inexperienced in the punting game. That has spilled over into instability in the kicking game, with inexperienced, first year punters under roster pressure because they are punting poorly also trying to calmly hold for FGs. It has often been said that Matt Flynn has been the best holder available the last three seasons, but the coaching staff doesn't like to use the backup QB. Heck, holding is what kept Doug Pederson in the NFL for so long.

This year, I kept thinking to myself, "didn't Patler make a comment about Crosby's holder possibly affecting his kicking"?

This is the post I was thinking of. A year on, I think it might be fair to say that having a consistent holder has helped.

[RashanGary]

He's up to a career 80.1% Longwell is a career 83.6


Crosby just has to keep rollin. It looks like Masthay will be here for a while. Goode too. He should have everything going his way for the next 5+ years.

[Bretsky]

Crosby was and still is money

[King Friday]

Anyone who thought we should get rid of Crosby was and probably still is an idiot.

[woodbuck27]

Anyone who thought we should get rid of Crosby was and probably still is an idiot.

It seems to me that some we're confused with his performce but he's just learning. A kicker has to know..believe he will make every kick. That takes time and repitition. He must play. A kickers confidence is so important. That's spell'd ... e x p e r i e n c e.

[mmmdk]

Anyone who thought we should get rid of Crosby was and probably still is an idiot.

I agree!

[mmmdk]

Crosby was and still is money

You're finally right, sorta...Crosby needs to nail some game winners to be considered elite.

BTW, define "money"??? HOF? Multiple pro bowls? A pro bowl? Nice dome kicker? What?

Mason Crosby is finally putting a great season together; hope it's a full season incl. playoffs and a SB winning kick.

[Pugger]

Interesting, because one of the extra point snaps was way off, too. Masthay did a nice job reaching behind him to get that one.

I think having Masthay hold for him for a while now has helped Crosby too.

[mmmdk]

I think having Masthay hold for him for a while now has helped Crosby too.

Great observation; sounds very plausible.

[Gunakor]

BTW, define "money"???

14 for 14, including a 56 yarder that tied a franchise record, followed by a 58 yarder that broke said record. That's what they say to you when you ask for the definition of "money" in a spelling bee.

[pbmax]

Anyone who thought we should get rid of Crosby was and probably still is an idiot.

Not fair! Everyone in the Game Day thread for the last 3 years was just concerned about his development, that's all!

:lol:

[mmmdk]

14 for 14, including a 56 yarder that tied a franchise record, followed by a 58 yarder that broke said record. That's what they say to you when you ask for the definition of "money" in a spelling bee.

I like that "money" mo much! 8-)

NB! Crosby was shown the real money and he actually got better. Gotta that like that - a lot!

[ThunderDan]

14 for 14, including a 56 yarder that tied a franchise record, followed by a 58 yarder that broke said record. That's what they say to you when you ask for the definition of "money" in a spelling bee.

Except it wasn't at the end of the game trailing by 3 or less so it doesn't count. :lol:

It's funny that FG count 3 points in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th quarters.