First-round draft picks have saved the Packers

[HarveyWallbangers]

(Can't figure out how to quote an article when creating a new thread.)

Six first round picks. Three Pro Bowl caliber players, two solid starters (one who could be Pro Bowl caliber eventually), and one bust. Of course, some still just want to talk about Harrell.

http://www.jsonline.com/sports/packers/109567954.html

Thompson's track record with first-rounders is pretty good with Raji, Matthews and Bulaga added to Rodgers and linebacker A.J. Hawk, who is having a good season. Justin Harrell is the only one who hasn't worked out at all due to chronic injuries.

[Lurker64]

(Can't figure out how to quote an article when creating a new thread.)

You can just manually insert quote tags.


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[packerbacker1234]

I have no real issue with TT as the man deciding our draft choices. He is an excellent talent scout. Setting aside the first rounders, he also helped discover undrafted Sam Shields.

However, his dealing with the media itself are piss poor, which makes people publicly not like him that much. Toss that on top of his lack of at least showing interest in aquiring a few of hte big names in FA or trade sort of hur them. Not that those names would help, but at least admitting we are looking into it would be nice. Again, that all comes down to Public Relations, which frankly TT is horrible at.

As for who to decide who and what we draft? Can't ask for anyone better really.

[vince]

"Well, where would we be without the other 50?" said Thompson. "We need 'em all. We have to have all our guys contributing and that's what we tell them all the time. It's not fantasy football. People are going to miss some time and you're going to have to have young men step up and take their place. So you need them all."

...

Thompson said he hasn't defined exactly how soon he expects first-round players to make an impact.

"I think it's more an investment in the future. You hope they have a long and healthy and happy career," said Thompson. "They're just getting started. Sometimes we want to anoint things before we finish them. I think they're going to have long, good careers and that's what we hope for. It isn't necessarily focused on what happened yesterday. It's looking down to the future with your guys, especially with your guys you picked pretty highly, to have long healthy careers."

Still, it's not a bad story. Bulaga changes positions and holds up. Raji moves from end to tackle and stars. Matthews is the toast of the NFL. Despite their youth and inexperience, they're helping this team.

"Mike and his staff have always been unafraid of going with younger guys if the younger guys are the best option at the time," said Thompson. "There are some staffs that are a little more hesitant. I think credit goes to the players first - they're the ones out there doing it."

Thompson may be boring and quiet but he is deferent and modest - pretty great attributes for such an elite general manager I'd say.

Thompson's knocked it out of the park with his first rounders, but the bottom line is that with a GM you have to look at the body of work - and he's done just as well overall. Every GM makes mistakes, the better they are, the longer they're in the business, the more mistakes they make. It's the nature of the business. Nitpicking individual decisions or, even worse, criticizing things that have no real impact on winning such as public relations or personality reek of bias and agenda.

Those that complain about his public relations in particular are grasping for something to justify personal hatred and/or knock down the man in order to support their personal dislike for someone who consistently doesn't make the decisions they as a fan think are the right ones.

[Scott Campbell]

Toss that on top of his lack of at least showing interest in aquiring a few of hte big names in FA or trade sort of hur them.

Defensive Player Of The Year Charles Woodson is not a big name?

[MJZiggy]

Defensive Player Of The Year Charles Woodson is not a big name?

I think he's still sad not to have gotten a big name like Haynesworth; he's really tearing it up in his $100 million backup role. I don't care if Ted Thompson never gets in front of a microphone again. I don't care if he decides to become a hermit and live in a hovel underneath the stadium and grow a Moses beard so long as he keeps building the kind of team that can lose a ton of starters and still compete for the division. This team is grade A personnel-wise and that is what TT gets paid to do. Not stand in front of a podium and say what you want to hear. Since Al left, he's my favorite interview. Ask a stupid question and see what kind of answer you get.

[retailguy]

Thompson may be boring and quiet but he is deferent and modest - pretty great attributes for such an elite general manager I'd say.

Thompson's knocked it out of the park with his first rounders, but the bottom line is that with a GM you have to look at the body of work - and he's done just as well overall. Every GM makes mistakes, the better they are, the longer they're in the business, the more mistakes they make. It's the nature of the business. Nitpicking individual decisions or, even worse, criticizing things that have no real impact on winning such as public relations or personality reek of bias and agenda.

Those that complain about his public relations in particular are grasping for something to justify personal hatred and/or knock down the man in order to support their personal dislike for someone who consistently doesn't make the decisions they as a fan think are the right ones.

Another patented Vince cheap shot. Surprising? I don't think so.

In the real world you can't be "elite" unless you excel at all facets of your job. You might be the best in the world at part of it, but if you can't be the best in the world at all of it, you don't earn or deserve the "elite" moniker. Thompson is an excellent personnel guy, few anywhere will disagree with that. But, unfortunately for you, Thompson has other responsibilities as part of his "job" of GM. His inability to interact with any media person is not "elite". His ability to hire coaches appears to be mediocre at best.

I really think you protest too much vince. You accuse me and others of having a "personal vendetta" against Thompson, but I think you have the real personal vendetta, and that's to convince the world that "excelling" at a portion of your job qualifies you as "elite"...

[MJZiggy]

Another patented Vince cheap shot. Surprising? I don't think so.

In the real world you can't be "elite" unless you excel at all facets of your job. You might be the best in the world at part of it, but if you can't be the best in the world at all of it, you don't earn or deserve the "elite" moniker. Thompson is an excellent personnel guy, few anywhere will disagree with that. But, unfortunately for you, Thompson has other responsibilities as part of his "job" of GM. His inability to interact with any media person is not "elite". His ability to hire coaches appears to be mediocre at best.

I really think you protest too much vince. You accuse me and others of having a "personal vendetta" against Thompson, but I think you have the real personal vendetta, and that's to convince the world that "excelling" at a portion of your job qualifies you as "elite"...

I don't buy this. I think that there are reporters out there (the few left who know what they're doing) that have fine interviews with TT. I think he has a low tolerance for reporters who either don't know what they're talking about or who walk into his interview with an agenda. I've seen a few of those train wrecks and that's the reporter's fault, not Thompson's. I've also seen some very good interviews with him where the reporter actually asked him questions about football, not what they think he's doing wrong in his job/personal life/whatever. The only coach Thompson hired is McCarthy. McCarthy has hired the rest of his coaching staff, and that's his responsibility, not Thompson's.

[vince]

I couldn't care less about whether Thompson has an outgoing personality or is a dynamic interview. It has no bearing whatsoever on the team's ability to win. Ted Thompson has put together as talented a young roster as any in the league bar none. That makes him elite as a GM.

Cheap shot at who RG? You have said you hate Thompson on numerous occasions and it shows. You get personally offended when people approve of him. That speaks volumes.

[retailguy]

I don't buy this. I think that there are reporters out there (the few left who know what they're doing) that have fine interviews with TT. I think he has a low tolerance for reporters who either don't know what they're talking about or who walk into his interview with an agenda. I've seen a few of those train wrecks and that's the reporter's fault, not Thompson's. I've also seen some very good interviews with him where the reporter actually asked him questions about football, not what they think he's doing wrong in his job/personal life/whatever. The only coach Thompson hired is McCarthy. McCarthy has hired the rest of his coaching staff, and that's his responsibility, not Thompson's.

I have no problem disagreeing about the issues. You think he gives good press interviews? That's fine with me. I heartily disagree. But when you come in here claiming


Those that complain about his public relations in particular are grasping for something to justify personal hatred and/or knock down the man

That's a personal cheap shot that leaves no opportunity for discussion.

FWIW - can you point me to one of these "fair" articles where football and the Packers was actually discussed without a bunch of misdirection, or better, an answer that doesn't say anything at all? From my point of view, the Green Bay press corps almost unanimously despises Thompson, and I don't remember that with Wolf, Sherman or Holmgren. I just don't believe that they can all be wrong and have personal agendas.

[vince]

Even accepting that, none of that will win or lose one game for the Packers. It just doesn't matter.

[retailguy]

I couldn't care less about whether Thompson has an outgoing personality or is a dynamic interview. It has no bearing whatsoever on the team's ability to win. Ted Thompson has put together as talented a young roster as any in the league bar none. That makes him elite as a GM.

Cheap shot at who RG? You have said you hate Thompson on numerous occasions and it shows. You get personally offended when people approve of him. That speaks volumes.

I do care vince. It's an important part of his job. It becomes more important when the team doesn't win, but there is a plan, and TIME is needed. If he had spent the last 5 years cultivating a relationship with the media, doing the right things, saying the right things, approaching things the right way, this season, when the team has been decimated with injury you'd be seeing more stories about the team pulling together and winning and less stories about how Thompson won't have veterans, and how he won't have free agents, and how he gets rid of older players who have leadership skills.

Thompson and the Packers are bearing the brunt of 5 years of screwing with the media, largely unnecessarily.

You're right, I don't like Thompson. You described him as "modest". Bullshit. Modest people don't fuck with people trying to do their jobs. They don't get enjoyment out of screwing with people by not answering their questions and smirking at them for asking. That's not modesty. I think it's ego. I don't admire it, I don't aspire to it, I don't want it in my organization.

At the end of the day Vince, it has EVERYTHING to do with winning.

As a fan, I want to be proud of the team, and proud of the organization whether they win or lose. I smile when I hear that one of the best places to go as an away fan is Lambeau. I'm proud of the team when I watch someone like Donald Driver cry when he gets a contract, and then gives part of it away. I'm proud when I see Woodson donate millions to his College. When I look at Thompson misdirect and smirk, I'm not so proud. That doesn't mean I have a "personal vendetta", it just means I don't appreciate ego and conceited attitude.

[MJZiggy]

FWIW - can you point me to one of these "fair" articles where football and the Packers was actually discussed without a bunch of misdirection, or better, an answer that doesn't say anything at all? From my point of view, the Green Bay press corps almost unanimously despises Thompson, and I don't remember that with Wolf, Sherman or Holmgren. I just don't believe that they can all be wrong and have personal agendas.

If a GM doesn't introduce some misdirection, he's not doing his job adequately. You want him to tell the whole league everything he has planned? Wolf used to outright lie and everyone thought he was a genius with the media because he'd say stuff like "fart in the wind." Thompson does the same thing. He just doesn't have gas.

I will try to find you the interview I'm thinking of. It was posted in here as an example of how to interview Ted Thompson fairly shortly after some idiot pissed him off and he was roundly criticized for finishing the interview with one word answers. To be frank, I'd have walked out of the room and never interviewed with that reporter again. There's a way to conduct an interview and not many in the GB press are versed at it.

[vince]

Obviously we disagree RG and that's OK. I'm just giving my opinions here.

In my opinion, your admitted hatred paints the picture you're predisposed to see. I have seen nothing but the highest character from Thompson and I think his dry sense of humor and lack of personality are misinterpreted by some.

Ted Thompson is a huge asset to the Packers franchise, both in the product he has put on the field and in the manner he condusts his business, including with the media. That's my opinion.

[retailguy]

Obviously we disagree RG and that's OK. I'm just giving my opinions here.

In my opinion, your admitted hatred paints the picture you're predisposed to see. I have seen nothing but the highest character from Thompson and I think his dry sense of humor and lack of personality are misinterpreted by some.

Ted Thompson is a huge asset to the Packers franchise, both in the product he has put on the field and in the manner he condusts his business, including with the media. That's my opinion.

And you're entitled to it Vince. You just don't have to mock my opinion in the process. It's pretty clear that you were mocking me personally, since I'm the ONLY one here that talks about his crappy media skills.

[vince]

can you point me to one of these "fair" articles where football and the Packers was actually discussed without a bunch of misdirection, or better, an answer that doesn't say anything at all?
I'd say the article from which this thread is started does that. Thompson said he believes the key to winning is not in 3 players, but it takes all 53. That says a lot about his philosophy. He also gives the credit to the players rather than accepting the credit himself for the roster. That shows his deference and humility.

[vince]

And you're entitled to it Vince. You just don't have to mock my opinion in the process. It's pretty clear that you were mocking me personally, since I'm the ONLY one here that talks about his crappy media skills.
You're not the only one with that opinion RG, as misguided as I believe it is. 1234 stated that opinion above and it is that which I was actually responding to. It wasn't directed personally to you.

[retailguy]

If a GM doesn't introduce some misdirection, he's not doing his job adequately. You want him to tell the whole league everything he has planned? Wolf used to outright lie and everyone thought he was a genius with the media because he'd say stuff like "fart in the wind." Thompson does the same thing. He just doesn't have gas.

I will try to find you the interview I'm thinking of. It was posted in here as an example of how to interview Ted Thompson fairly shortly after some idiot pissed him off and he was roundly criticized for finishing the interview with one word answers. To be frank, I'd have walked out of the room and never interviewed with that reporter again. There's a way to conduct an interview and not many in the GB press are versed at it.

Nobody, including me, expects him to give away all the company secrets. Problem is, he answers deceptively even when he doesn't have to. Reporters asking is a part of their jobs. Truly, not many people expect him to answer those questions, including the reporter who asked them. Early on, those interviews were much, much worse. He wouldn't answer ANYTHING, including those softball questions that the reporters ask to give him an opportunity to say whatever he wants and "pump up" his team. Fortunately, those idiot answers seem to be going away.

But, realistically, Thompson purposely makes it tougher for them to do their jobs, mostly unnecessarily in my opinion.

Giving a reporter an exclusive tip once in a while, might be a nice thing to do. For example, when he decided to release Al Harris, he could have given an exclusive interview in 5 minutes talking about the great contributions he's made to the team over the years, and that he released him because he wanted him to be able to start and those opportunities were not available here, and Al deserved better than being the 4th string cornerback.

What did we get? Silence and a three line press release.

I see that as a missed opportunity.

[vince]

it has EVERYTHING to do with winning.
Agree wholeheartedly. NONE OF THE REST MATTERS, whether you think it's bad and I think it's good - it doesn't matter one bit.

[Patler]

I do care vince. It's an important part of his job. It becomes more important when the team doesn't win, but there is a plan, and TIME is needed. If he had spent the last 5 years cultivating a relationship with the media, doing the right things, saying the right things, approaching things the right way, this season, when the team has been decimated with injury you'd be seeing more stories about the team pulling together and winning and less stories about how Thompson won't have veterans, and how he won't have free agents, and how he gets rid of older players who have leadership.

Thompson and the Packers are bearing the brunt of 5 years of screwing with the media, largely unnecessarily.

You're right, I don't like Thompson. You described him as "modest". Bullshit. Modest people don't fuck with people trying to do their jobs. They don't get enjoyment out of screwing with people by not answering their questions and smirking at them for asking. That's not modesty. I think it's ego. I don't admire it, I don't aspire to it, I don't want it in my organization.

At the end of the day Vince, it has EVERYTHING to do with winning.

As a fan, I want to be proud of the team, and proud of the organization whether they win or lose. I smile when I hear that one of the best places to go as an away fan is Lambeau. I'm proud of the team when I watch someone like Donald Drive cry when he gets a contract, and then gives it away. I'm proud when I see Woodson donate millions to his College. When I look at Thompson misdirect and smirk, I'm not so proud. That doesn't mean I have a "personal vendetta", it just means I don't appreciate ego.

I couldn't disagree more with everything you have said. I am 100% opposite to your opinion, which I guess is to be expected on a fan website (Insert smiley face here!).

- The GM has very little PR responsibility, unlike the HC who has several press conferences each week.
- Wolf was not much more direct with the press than TT is, he was just better at not answering their questions because he was willing to lead them down false paths. Instead of that, TT simply refuses to answer. I have always felt that TT is extremely uncomfortable with deceit, therefore he simply refuses to answer because he can't bring himself to be untruthful.
- The people who work with TT and actually know him, (unlike us) consistently describe him as almost totally ego-less and completely modest.
- We both see TT do the same things, and you and I have developed polar opposite opinions as to what that means about his personality. Probably due to our own pre-conceived notions about him. However, those who really know him and work with him continually comment on his lack of ego and his modesty, often volunteering it when asked general questions which didn't require that response. I suspect they know him a heck of a lot better than either you or I.

From what I have seen from him, I would hire TT in a heartbeat.

[swede]

Obviously we disagree RG and that's OK. I'm just giving my opinions here.

In my opinion, your admitted hatred paints the picture you're predisposed to see. I have seen nothing but the highest character from Thompson and I think his dry sense of humor and lack of personality are misinterpreted by some.

Ted Thompson is a huge asset to the Packers franchise, both in the product he has put on the field and in the manner he condusts his business, including with the media. That's my opinion.

+1 Vince. I LOVE TT's handling of the press. He answers interesting questions with interesting answers. He answers stupid questions with dismissive solemnity.

[The Shadow]

If a GM doesn't introduce some misdirection, he's not doing his job adequately. You want him to tell the whole league everything he has planned? Wolf used to outright lie and everyone thought he was a genius with the media because he'd say stuff like "fart in the wind." Thompson does the same thing. He just doesn't have gas.

I will try to find you the interview I'm thinking of. It was posted in here as an example of how to interview Ted Thompson fairly shortly after some idiot pissed him off and he was roundly criticized for finishing the interview with one word answers. To be frank, I'd have walked out of the room and never interviewed with that reporter again. There's a way to conduct an interview and not many in the GB press are versed at it.

Agree wholeheartedly.

[denverYooper]

If a GM doesn't introduce some misdirection, he's not doing his job adequately. You want him to tell the whole league everything he has planned? Wolf used to outright lie and everyone thought he was a genius with the media because he'd say stuff like "fart in the wind." Thompson does the same thing. He just doesn't have gas

Wolf got that from working for Al Davis. Al used to bullshit the media all the time because he thought they were idiots but he was usually entertaining about it.

[Pugger]

I think he's still sad not to have gotten a big name like Haynesworth; he's really tearing it up in his $100 million backup role. I don't care if Ted Thompson never gets in front of a microphone again. I don't care if he decides to become a hermit and live in a hovel underneath the stadium and grow a Moses beard so long as he keeps building the kind of team that can lose a ton of starters and still compete for the division. This team is grade A personnel-wise and that is what TT gets paid to do. Not stand in front of a podium and say what you want to hear. Since Al left, he's my favorite interview. Ask a stupid question and see what kind of answer you get.
+1

[Pugger]

Wolf got that from working for Al Davis. Al used to bullshit the media all the time because he thought they were idiots but he was usually entertaining about it.

TT isn't the most charasmatic guy around and isn't entertaining but I don't care. All I care about is the quality and quantity of the players he supplies our coaches.

[Patler]

And you're entitled to it Vince. You just don't have to mock my opinion in the process. It's pretty clear that you were mocking me personally, since I'm the ONLY one here that talks about his crappy media skills.

You are the only one???? I beg to differ. Many have acknowledged his lack of media skills. It is really rather obvious. However, you are one of a few, maybe the only one, who thinks it is a huge part of his job and clouds his overall performance to a significant degree.

Heck, I even proposed on here that the Packers really should hire a PR guy to be the face of the front office.

[pbmax]

Apologies in advance for the Woodbuckian length of this post.

I think Thompson's most important constituencies are his employees in the front office, the Head Coach/Staff and the folks who hired him (CEO and Exec Council). Given the complete lack of squawking from those fronts (and there has been turnover in all three areas), it is clear Thompson has the trust of those who count. Whether by stubbornness or ego-less task completion, they believe in him. They believed in him when he refused to allow Favre back into camp and they believed in him when he won't invite the FA flavor of the week for a workout without knowing the parameters of a contract first.

In contrast, the squawking about Sherman began the moment he lost coaches, then filtered through the personnel department. All while he was winning.

At its highest, courting the media is 4th on his list of people to impress. And like Patler, I doubt it's even that high. Given that he has the trust of those with whom he works, it is a secondary or tertiary consideration. Thompson is not going to see his efforts cut short because of a media uprising. But I do take issue with that idea that Thompson is "f*ck[ing]" with the media. Refusing to take bait when offered or rejecting the premise of a question is not messing with someone else's job. He does it less artfully than Wolf (though I would argue he is no more uncomfortable than Sherman) but he is doing the same thing. I am a believer that the media and reporters should be everywhere, nosy and rude (or whatever skill might serve the end) to dig up what others would prefer be left buried. But Thompson refusing to play their tennis match is hardly a violation of his contract or his ethical duty to do all he can.

And if this year has proven anything, its that signing veteran FAs is just as big a gamble as counting on youth. Having depth has not changed in importance, but Thomspon seems to have demonstrated this year that the only question to ask of depth is to be talented enough to play, not whether it has years of experience.

Thompson is not a saint, not without flaws. He has made player acquisition and roster decision mistakes. And Andrew Brandt has written well several times that Thompson prefers not to have uncomfortable conversations. From the National Football Post (http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/The-difficult-parting-of-Favre-and-the-Packers.html):


Like many people, though, Ted is uncomfortable being open with people when the situation may require it. Difficult conversations are just that -- difficult -- yet necessary to clear up ambiguities. Dealing with conflict is part of leadership and management of elite athletes with fragile egos and insecurities. Avoidance is a dangerous option when handling the raw emotion of player-management relations.

But despite his limitations, Thompson has won over McCarthy, the coaches, Murphy, the Exec Council and his lieutenants. He has gathered one of the most talented rosters in the League. You cannot do that and have the organization pointed in the correct direction (following your lead) without skills beyond "scouting". To insist otherwise ignores conducting the actual draft, trades, the hiring of Capers, cap management, the replacement of Brandt and the resigning of veterans.

There will be doubt until the team captures a Lombardi. He has won all the accolades and hardware one could win as an executive without winning a Super Bowl. Its possible his flaws might prevent the team from capturing one. But more likely it would be the same nearly random chance that has allowed lesser teams to win Super Bowls, or arranged for the presence of equally matched or superior competition that year in the playoffs.

I think his approach will win out. But there are no guarantees.

[Bretsky]

Ted is a hell of a drafter and a good gm; I won't waste anytime idolizing him until he brings a title to Green Bay. After that happens he'll be on the pedestal with Ron Wolf. Bring us two and then he'll be above Ron

[ThunderDan]

If the Packers dumped TT there would be about 27 teams standing in line to get him.

[Packgator]

I couldn't disagree more with everything you have said.

I would hire TT in a heartbeat.

Along with close to 30 other teams.

[Patler]

Ted is a hell of a drafter and a good gm; I won't waste anytime idolizing him until he brings a title to Green Bay. After that happens he'll be on the pedestal with Ron Wolf. Bring us two and then he'll be above Ron

I agree. That brings up a question I have always had. Why is Wolf's pedestal so high in the view of so many? In spite of having an obviously top-flight QB; he won only a single Super Bowl. I know winning even one is tough, yet some franchises have managed to take advantage of their stars and group a whole bunch of SB appearances into their careers, winning several. Wolf really had only a two year run. Everything else was either building to those two years, or declining from them. He never reloaded for another shot.

Wolf screwed up the end of his career in my opinion. The end of Holmgren's time, hiring Rhodes, hiring Sherman and pushing for him to have the combined job that Holmgren wanted and might even have stayed for. I don't revere him the way many do.

[wootah]

+1 Vince. I LOVE TT's handling of the press. He answers interesting questions with interesting answers. He answers stupid questions with dismissive solemnity.

Same here. I specificly adore his pre-draft interview.
"So Ted, what do you think about the WR's available this year? Is there anyone that jumps out?"
- "I think it's a very solid group of WR's this year. Just like the other positions actually."

[Scott Campbell]

Wolf screwed up the end of his career in my opinion. The end of Holmgren's time, hiring Rhodes, hiring Sherman and pushing for him to have the combined job that Holmgren wanted and might even have stayed for. I don't revere him the way many do.


I think that's a great point. Just because you have a great GM, it doesn't mean that they'll necessarily stay great.

[MadScientist]

If the Packers dumped TT there would be about 27 teams standing in line to get him.

Agreed. For whatever faults you see in TT, would anyone here want to see him running the show in Detroit (though I think their GM is doing a good job as well), Chicago or Minnesota?

[ThunderDan]

And you're entitled to it Vince. You just don't have to mock my opinion in the process. It's pretty clear that you were mocking me personally, since I'm the ONLY one here that talks about his crappy media skills.


However, his dealing with the media itself are piss poor, which makes people publicly not like him that much.

Apparently you missed the 3rd post in this thread!

[sheepshead]

@Patler

Those years were like a high school nerd dating the prom queen. The Packers wer giddy for a few years. Harlan gave Holmy anything he wanted on the way out. The coaching carousel was a cluster stoop to say the least. Holmy stayed one year too long because he botched SB 32. We let Reid get away.

I have not changed position on this fact :TT is far better as his job then MM is at his. Not that MM needs to go or anything, TT and the Packer scouting staffs are one of the best in football. I also believe(and always have) that MM and TT bent way over backwards for Favre and perhaps let him come back one too many times.

[Patler]

@Patler

Those years were like a high school nerd dating the prom queen. The Packers wer giddy for a few years. Harlan gave Holmy anything he wanted on the way out. The coaching carousel was a cluster stoop to say the least. Holmy stayed one year too long because he botched SB 32. We let Reid get away.

I have not changed position on this fact :TT is far better as his job then MM is at his. Not that MM needs to go or anything, TT and the Packer scouting staffs are one of the best in football. I also believe(and always have) that MM and TT bent way over backwards for Favre and perhaps let him come back one too many times.

Even after 5 years, I'm not convinced about MM yet, but I am convinced that TT is a darn fine GM.

I never felt TT and MM bent over backward for Favre. I felt that Sherman clearly did, but MM tried to change that when he came. I have wondered if Sherman's kid-glove handling of Favre might have been one of the strikes against him with TT. I think TT likes a dispassionate, no nonsense approach with players. After seeing Sherman with Favre for a season, TT might have decided Sherman was not his type of HC. I thought that after MM came on board both he and TT tried to pull Favre back in that direction.

[sheepshead]

Even after 5 years, I'm not convinced about MM yet, but I am convinced that TT is a darn fine GM.

I never felt TT and MM bent over backward for Favre. I felt that Sherman clearly did, but MM tried to change that when he came. I have wondered if Sherman's kid-glove handling of Favre might have been one of the strikes against him with TT. I think TT likes a dispassionate, no nonsense approach with players. After seeing Sherman with Favre for a season, TT might have decided Sherman was not his type of HC. I thought that after MM came on board both he and TT tried to pull Favre back in that direction.

I agree, but coaching Brett Favre and saying 'its time to leave we have new a guy we want to try' are two entirely different things.

[Patler]

I agree, but coaching Brett Favre and saying 'its time to leave we have new a guy we want to try' are two entirely different things.

I will always wonder what TT and MM would have done if Favre had not opened the door for them by "retiring". How long would they have stuck with him? What kind of opportunities would they have given Rodgers even with Favre on the roster? Etc.

[pbmax]

I will always wonder what TT and MM would have done if Favre had not opened the door for them by "retiring". How long would they have stuck with him? What kind of opportunities would they have given Rodgers even with Favre on the roster? Etc.

I think both are on record (I am sure about McCarthy) that he would have been the unquestioned starter in 2008 had he committed to coming back in the Spring. Beyond that they have commented that they would have tried to sign Rodgers to keep him around. But understood he would be anxious to leave.

[rbaloha1]

I agree. That brings up a question I have always had. Why is Wolf's pedestal so high in the view of so many? In spite of having an obviously top-flight QB; he won only a single Super Bowl. I know winning even one is tough, yet some franchises have managed to take advantage of their stars and group a whole bunch of SB appearances into their careers, winning several. Wolf really had only a two year run. Everything else was either building to those two years, or declining from them. He never reloaded for another shot.

Wolf screwed up the end of his career in my opinion. The end of Holmgren's time, hiring Rhodes, hiring Sherman and pushing for him to have the combined job that Holmgren wanted and might even have stayed for. I don't revere him the way many do.

RW built a roster which should have won 3 consecutive super bowls. Its not RW's fault the packers lost to the Broncos and the 49'ers the following year

[rbaloha1]

Even after 5 years, I'm not convinced about MM yet, but I am convinced that TT is a darn fine GM.

I never felt TT and MM bent over backward for Favre. I felt that Sherman clearly did, but MM tried to change that when he came. I have wondered if Sherman's kid-glove handling of Favre might have been one of the strikes against him with TT. I think TT likes a dispassionate, no nonsense approach with players. After seeing Sherman with Favre for a season, TT might have decided Sherman was not his type of HC. I thought that after MM came on board both he and TT tried to pull Favre back in that direction.

Agreed. MM chokes in big and close games. Sort of like Sherman.

[ND72]

I started reading, and then decided to just post.

Couple things I've noticed, mostly from RG...Ted Thompson has NO media responsiblities. When he speaks to the media, it is by his choice, and his choice alone. The NFL does not regulate the GM make any appearance to the media. the only time the NFL "asks" a GM to speak is before the NFL draft, and that's it, but they still don't have to.

Anything other than the product that is placed on the field means nothing to me. Ted's job is putting a winning team on the field, and he has shown he is doing that year in and year out. I don't care that media doesn't like him. I don't care that he doesn't answer questions to the fullest to the media for the simple fact that most of the media is just a circus act anyway, and most of them are BAD at their jobs.

Bill Michaels talked about this last night in his post game show, the media loves Brett Favre...why? Because he tells them everything. He has never been one to shy away from giving them the news or the stories, so they love him. The media doesn't like Ted Thompson, because he is the polar opposite, so they are going to give you their opinion of Ted within their stories. But once again, I don't care.

Ted Thompson could never show his face in front of the media, and just do what he does, and I would be completely satisfied. Ted has a plan, to build through the draft. He knows what he's doing, and it shows. His drafts have been pretty damn good since coming here. To say he refuses to sign big name free agents is just a stupid comment. He has signed Charles Woodson and Ryan pickett....PLEASE tell me what big name free agents we missed out on, cause I would love to see a list.

PLUS, there were guys who said the Packers called them to come for a visit but they refused to come, early on some even said because of Mike Sherman. That will change. When Ron Wolf took over, he struggled to get big name guys to come here....then Reggie signed, and we started winning, and then they wanted to come.

Ted Thompson has done a wonderful job rebuilding from the funk that was Mike Sherman. We have a product on the field that is built to win for a number of years...that is Ted Thompson's job, and of which should be the only basis we grade him on. If you want to put in your opinon based on other facts is just your way of trying to nit-pick, and are oblivious to the reality of what he is responsible for.

[vince]

Favre was put in his place by both TT and MM and that was the best thing for him and the team but he didn't see it that way. He would have continued with Green Bay that year, but under terms he felt he was above. His refusal to accept his "place" is what led to Favre manipulating his way out of town. Had he accepted that he was the QB and wasn't above the rest of his teammates, he would have been impossible to displace without a drop in play, which could well have come at the end of '08. It may well have been too late to keep Rodgers though.

Both TT and MM deserve tremendous kudos in my opinion for maintaining team principles amid an avalanche of pressure.

[pbmax]

RW built a roster which should have won 3 consecutive super bowls. Its not RW's fault the packers lost to the Broncos and the 49'ers the following year

The Packer Defense in 98 was running on fumes compared to the 96 unit. No way they stop the Broncos the second time. They had a hole at safety (Sharper), LB (never replaced Simmons) and DE opposite Reggie (though Holiday was better than Holland or Wilkins). And Reggie and LeRoy were getting old.

[ND72]

Back to the topic though, I think Ted's ability to draft and many people's opinion that 1st round is the "big" round needs to also see how his 2nd and 3rd round picks have come through. I know he has had some misses, but those 2 rounds have put 11 guys still on the team with probably 10 of them actually looking like players.

2010
2nd Round - Mike Neal (Injury - looks good)
3rd Round - Morgan Burnett (Injury - Looks good)

2009
2nd Round - Jordy Nelson
2nd Round - Brian Brohm (Sucked)
2nd Round - Pat Lee (TBD)
3rd Round - Jermichael Finley

2007
2nd Round - Brandon Jackson
3rd Round - James Jones
3rd Round - Aaron Rouse (bust)

2006
2nd Round - Daryn Colledge
2nd Round - Greg Jennings
3rd Round - Abdul Hodge (Injury)
3rd Round - Jason Spitz

2005
2nd Round - Nick Collins
2nd Round - Terrance Murphy (Injury)

[Patler]

I will always wonder what TT and MM would have done if Favre had not opened the door for them by "retiring". How long would they have stuck with him? What kind of opportunities would they have given Rodgers even with Favre on the roster? Etc.


I think both are on record (I am sure about McCarthy) that he would have been the unquestioned starter in 2008 had he committed to coming back in the Spring. Beyond that they have commented that they would have tried to sign Rodgers to keep him around. But understood he would be anxious to leave.

I agree, the job was Favre's for 2008 to start camp, but would Rodgers have had any opportunities? Would a Favre injury have been used as their excuse to get Rodgers in, even if the injury was not real serious? If Favre had a bad game or two, would Rodgers have had chances in those games? Would they have traded Favre in 2009, or opened up the spot to competition in 2009?

I don't think they were of a mind to stick with Favre as long as Favre wanted to play, necessarily. They had two seasons to do something with Rodgers, his original contract was through 2009. It could have been even uglier than it turned out to be with Favre. Both TT and MM seemed confident in Rodgers in 2008, and I think they would have done something to keep him other than just offering him a new contract.

[Patler]

I started reading, and then decided to just post.

Couple things I've noticed, mostly from RG...Ted Thompson has NO media responsiblities. When he speaks to the media, it is by his choice, and his choice alone. The NFL does not regulate the GM make any appearance to the media. the only time the NFL "asks" a GM to speak is before the NFL draft, and that's it, but they still don't have to.

Good point, and reminded me of an article a couple years ago about TT. The writer pointed out a couple of very good GM's that are rarely seen or heard from, and said the local media was spoiled because Wolf liked to talk to the media even if it was just to mislead them.

[Bossman641]

I agree, the job was Favre's for 2008 to start camp, but would Rodgers have had any opportunities? Would a Favre injury have been used as their excuse to get Rodgers in, even if the injury was not real serious? If Favre had a bad game or two, would Rodgers have had chances in those games? Would they have traded Favre in 2009, or opened up the spot to competition in 2009?

I don't think they were of a mind to stick with Favre as long as Favre wanted to play, necessarily. They had two seasons to do something with Rodgers, his original contract was through 2009. It could have been even uglier than it turned out to be with Favre. Both TT and MM seemed confident in Rodgers in 2008, and I think they would have done something to keep him other than just offering him a new contract.

Thinking about that situation makes me shudder.

There is no way they would have been able to get rid of Favre after the 07 season. I highly doubt they would have been able to have a QB competition or even to pull Favre from games without the media and fans turnin on them.

Favre's retirement might have been the best thing to ever happen for TT/MM. It certainly wasn't the band-aid, rip it off fix that it could or should have been, but it would be much worse seein Rodgers in another uniform for the next 10 years.

The thing that still bothers me is the media's perception that TT forced Favre out of town. While I disagree that he was "forced out" in the first place, if anybody forced him out it was MM. Recall that MM was the one who sat down with Favre and decided that Favre was not in the right state of mind. The decision to go Rodgers over Favre was a lot more MM than TT in my opinion.

[Noodle]

Giving a reporter an exclusive tip once in a while, might be a nice thing to do. For example, when he decided to release Al Harris, he could have given an exclusive interview in 5 minutes talking about the great contributions he's made to the team over the years, and that he released him because he wanted him to be able to start and those opportunities were not available here, and Al deserved better than being the 4th string cornerback.

What did we get? Silence and a three line press release.

I see that as a missed opportunity.

I respect what TT has done, but RG makes a good point here. Sure, TT didn't have to do it, and a lot of GM's wouldn't have done it, but I think something like what RG suggests can help make GB a more attractive place for players to be.

One of the biggest rules in life is the Clint Eastwood maxim: A man's got to know his limitations. TT has to know that he's got a blind spot when it comes to this kind of thing, so why not trust and rely on a good media relations guy who might make something like what RG suggests happen? Heck, it doesn't have to be TT doing the interview, it could be someone else in the organization, but how you handle players leaving is only a little less important than how you handle bringing them in.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'd like to think Thompson was somewhere like Pine Bluff, Arkansas or Butte, Montana look for the next no name UFDA to sign. :wink:


“We want to thank Al for his contributions to the Green Bay Packers,” Thompson said. “His hard work, dedication and professionalism have been the keys to his success. During his time here, he has been a valuable member of our organization and our community. We wish him the very best in the future and he will always be a part of the Packer family.”

[cheesner]

RW built a roster which should have won 3 consecutive super bowls. Its not RW's fault the packers lost to the Broncos and the 49'ers the following year

One can look at it this way, the Packers pre wolf: 75ish years and 11 championships, or less than 7 years per championship. Under Wolf? 1 championship in 15 years. In other words, Wolf underperformed to the Packer standard.


Of course this is a bit tongue-in-cheek, but on the serious side, I am with Patler on this. Wolf hit on a lot of 3rd round picks and definitely took advantage of the new FA system to build a great team. But as far as hitting those high picks, not so much.

[Guiness]

RW built a roster which should have won 3 consecutive super bowls. Its not RW's fault the packers lost to the cheating Broncos and the 49'ers the following year

fixed

[Zool]

Good point, and reminded me of an article a couple years ago about TT. The writer pointed out a couple of very good GM's that are rarely seen or heard from, and said the local media was spoiled because Wolf liked to talk to the media even if it was just to mislead them.

I'd go as far as to say the reason Thompson is so out in the open in GB is because there is no team owner to take some of that spotlight away.

[Noodle]

Good point, Zool. Murphy could be doing more of the communicating -- Harlan certainly didn't mind being in the press. But I never hear a thing out of Murphy. Seems a little odd.

[ND72]

Lombardi hated the media. Just throwin that one out there.

[channtheman]

Good point, Zool. Murphy could be doing more of the communicating -- Harlan certainly didn't mind being in the press. But I never hear a thing out of Murphy. Seems a little odd.

Murphy does have time to hand write responses to letters he gets (my dad wrote to him about the lame Packer G in the middle of the field and the unfilled endzones during the preseason).

[Patler]

Good point, Zool. Murphy could be doing more of the communicating -- Harlan certainly didn't mind being in the press. But I never hear a thing out of Murphy. Seems a little odd.

I have been surprised at that, too. Murphy is seen very little. I thought he might grab the "face of the team" role and run with it, having been a trial attorney for a while. But we seem to hear even less from him then from TT.

[Scott Campbell]

I respect what TT has done, but RG makes a good point here. Sure, TT didn't have to do it, and a lot of GM's wouldn't have done it, but I think something like what RG suggests can help make GB a more attractive place for players to be.

One of the biggest rules in life is the Clint Eastwood maxim: A man's got to know his limitations. TT has to know that he's got a blind spot when it comes to this kind of thing, so why not trust and rely on a good media relations guy who might make something like what RG suggests happen? Heck, it doesn't have to be TT doing the interview, it could be someone else in the organization, but how you handle players leaving is only a little less important than how you handle bringing them in.


I'm not sure. It would have been a nice gesture, but it could have blown up. At first they tried to be nice about Brett retiring, and everything they said and did ended up being used against them.

[Lurker64]

I have been surprised at that, too. Murphy is seen very little. I thought he might grab the "face of the team" role and run with it, having been a trial attorney for a while. But we seem to hear even less from him then from TT.

What do you suppose the odds are that he's seen quite a bit more after the whole CBA kerfuffle is resolved? Since Murphy is the guy in charge of one of the smallest market teams, and the only team whose books are made public, it's entirely likely that Goodell has him on a short leash lest Murphy say or do something that undermines the league's position.

[Patler]

What do you suppose the odds are that he's seen quite a bit more after the whole CBA kerfuffle is resolved? Since Murphy is the guy in charge of one of the smallest market teams, and the only team whose books are made public, it's entirely likely that Goodell has him on a short leash lest Murphy say or do something that undermines the league's position.

Interesting possibility. That thought had never crossed my mind, but it makes some sense. If he isn't out in the open, no one can ask questions of him, questions the league would rather not answer in public.