CHILLY FIRED - Packers are COACH KILLERS!

[gbpackfan]

Per Jay Glazer, via rotoworld.com, Childress has been fired.

[gbpackfan]

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/Brad-Childress-fired-Minnesota-Vikings-112210

[vince]

Ha! This was going to happen sooner or later. That was a great scene watching the Vikings yelling at each other like a bunch of emotionally stunted 3rd graders yesterday.

Zygi had no choice, given his situation and the fan outcry.

[Packgator]

Per Jay Glazer, via rotoworld.com, Childress has been fired.

Put out of his misery is more like it. The mess is someone else's now.

[Scott Campbell]

This has to be the funniest reaction ever to a crushing loss to the Packers.

[mmmdk]

Who's top dog then? Oh, forgot, it's probably the drama queen. Seriously though, who?

[vince]

So is Favre going to retain the assistants?

[MichiganPackerFan]

This has to be the funniest reaction ever to a crushing loss to the Packers.

in consecutive games, no less!!!

[Scott Campbell]

Per Jay Glazer, via rotoworld.com, Childress has been fired.


A certain QB had a LOT to do with it.

[channtheman]

:lol:

YES! My laughing emoticon works!

[MichiganPackerFan]

A certain QB had a LOT to do with it.

that's pretty vague. And a REALLY unfairly harsh accusation towards Tarvaris Jackson.

[mmmdk]

Got it - Defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier has been named interim coach.

[Patler]

I wonder if Favre will drive Childress to the airport?

[MichiganPackerFan]

I wonder if Favre will drive Childress to the airport?

Metaphorically, he already did.

[ThunderDan]

First Mangini now Childress. Do you count Sherman in there also?

[channtheman]

I wonder if Favre will drive Childress to the airport?

:lol: That is just too funny!

[vince]

First Sherman, then Mangini, then Chilly. Favre is the true coach killer.

[Scott Campbell]

http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:MeQoGMv47CQ_IM:http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/images/08/19/favre-childress.jpg&t=1

[gbpackfan]

I wonder if Favre will drive Childress to the airport?

OMG - that is so damn funny! hahaha. And the picture is perfect. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[Lurker64]

This is a sad moment for Packer fans... unless the Vikings turn around and hire Matt Millen in the offseason. Does anybody have a direct line to Zygi?

[Patler]

First Sherman, then Mangini, then Chilly. Favre is the true coach killer.

Might as well credit him for Rhodes, too!

[Packgator]

The picture should be reversed and headed the other way....... back to the airport :)

[gbgary]

So is Favre going to retain the assistants?

lol

[Scott Campbell]

Thanksgiving in MN. A time for family. A time for great food. And a long weekend to work on your mock draft.

[pbmax]

So is Favre going to retain the assistants?

Very, very nice. Take a dollar from Rat petty cash.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Frazier's gonna bench Favre. Just watch the streak end.

[pbmax]

I wonder if Favre will drive Childress to the airport?


Metaphorically, he already did.

Nope, Chilly is still driving the only bus left to him.

http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k75/paisans_2006/Brad-Childress-drives-Brett-Favretoairport.jpg

[pbmax]

This is a sad moment for Packer fans... unless the Vikings turn around and hire Matt Millen in the offseason. Does anybody have a direct line to Zygi?

I voted four times at ESPN to approve of Chilly's job. I ran out of IP addresses. I wish I could have done more.

[mmmdk]

Frazier's gonna bench Favre. Just watch the streak end.

Wow, you think so? That would be gutsy but the right thing to do.

[mmmdk]

I voted four times at ESPN to approve of Chilly's job. I ran out of IP addresses. I wish I could have done more.

Super trouper! I award you the green'n'gold medal of honor. :lol:

[ThunderDan]

Frazier's gonna bench Favre. Just watch the streak end.

He's got to. Vikes are out of the playoffs, BF said he ain't playing next year, and you got to find out if a QB on your roster is going to lead the team next year or you need to draft a QB.

[pbmax]

Just for a moment, seriously, it seems clear Childress lost control of this behemoth and its possible it would never have worked for ANY coach unless they were winning.

But PFT thinks other heads could roll in the front office, like Rick Spielman. I could be wrong, but does that front office share in the blame? Didn't Childress have final say over the roster?

[pbmax]

He's got to. Vikes are out of the playoffs, BF said he ain't playing next year, and you got to find out if a QB on your roster is going to lead the team next year or you need to draft a QB.

Didn't they already answer the Tavaris question by signing Favre? And isn't TJacks biggest supporter now out of the picture? If I was Frazier, I would run Favre out there like a rented mule until he drops. Any respectable showing gets him his first HC gig.

[Tony Oday]

I think today we will hear about an injury settlement with Favre

[mmmdk]

Who brought Childress the news?

I hear Bert texted Chilly with a pic of his willy - with a "you're fired, d!ckhead".

[Kiwon]

He gone.....

[ThunderDan]

Didn't they already answer the Tavaris question by signing Favre? And isn't TJacks biggest supporter now out of the picture? If I was Frazier, I would run Favre out there like a rented mule until he drops. Any respectable showing gets him his first HC gig.

I still think you have 2 QBs on your roster that will be there next year. You have to let them play to see what you have. Leslie Frazier is one of the top canidates for a HC job this next year no matter what happens. He might actually want to tank it to be able to go to Carolina or Cincinnati.

[pbmax]

I still think you have 2 QBs on your roster that will be there next year. You have to let them play to see what you have. Leslie Frazier is one of the top canidates for a HC job this next year no matter what happens. He might actually want to tank it to be able to go to Carolina or Cincinnati.

He will be in demand because there seems to be a feeling that the CBA uncertainty will cause teams to look in house for replacements. That puts extra pressure on teams to find Rooney Rule interviews and he would be a natural. Teams with interim coaches (Cowboys) aren't going to attract a lot of interest from other candidates if the in house guy is seen as the heir. But tanking is going to hurt more than it would help. It would be easier to put the Wilf's off for 8 weeks.

Staying in house also lessens the chance that you are changing systems while having truncated offseason work. I still think a good org should hire the best candidate, but that will not stop some teams from panicking about a new system of play.

[swede]

I still think you have 2 QBs on your roster that will be there next year. You have to let them play to see what you have. Leslie Frazier is one of the top canidates for a HC job this next year no matter what happens. He might actually want to tank it to be able to go to Carolina or Cincinnati.

What a tough break for him. Can he avoid being re-signed by Minny? Can he finish with this team in a way that makes him look attractive to teams looking for a coach?

What he wanted to do was to go to the NFC Championship game and win his interviews next season riding high and looking good.

Now he has the stink of purple gone bad.

[Packgator]

the stink of purple gone bad.

That has a nice ring to it :)

[Scott Campbell]

http://www.jimrome.com/cimages/var/ezjimrome/storage/images/repository/photos/brett-favre-and-brad-childress/282009-1-eng-US/Brett-Favre-and-Brad-Childress_photo_medium.jpg


In happier times.........

[green_bowl_packer]

Just for a moment, seriously, it seems clear Childress lost control of this behemoth and its possible it would never have worked for ANY coach unless they were winning.

But PFT thinks other heads could roll in the front office, like Rick Spielman. I could be wrong, but does that front office share in the blame? Didn't Childress have final say over the roster?


Chilly at one point this season just had to say "Fuck It" (excuse my french young packer fans), I've got my extension (thanks Brett), I'm going to exercise some juice here in the 2010 season and it blew up in his face. Obviously there's the losing, but sending the 3 guys down to get Favre, then lying about it, trading for/then cutting Moss within a 2/3 week time frame, ripping Favre in the presser, and subsequently losing the locker room (though seems he lost it much sooner). Not that I'm complaining.

But if this isn't Karma coming back on the Vikes and Pevre going back to 2007, I don't know what is. 1 play away from SB, and now this. Beautiful!!!

I think the Vikes had a triumverate of power between Chilly, Speilman, and Ziggy or so they said, and Chilly most likely violated that by cutting Moss after giving up a 3rd, 2/3 weeks earlier. That and Favre's crappy year, put the noose around his neck, yesterday we kicked out the chair.


Should be interesting to see what BF does now that Frazier is finally getting his shot, after such a long wait. If he makes it to the end of the year that's 300 hundred games in a row. No? Is the Ironman a quitter, who doesn't want to get benched?

[hoosier]

Good question about who has final say about personnel decisions with Vikings. At least during the draft it sounds like Spielman does, though he also explained that he would never draft someone who Childress doesn't like. http://www.startribune.com/sports/vikings/91565084.html?elr=KArksUUUycaEacyU If Spielman has de facto final say on drafting matters I would guess that goes for other personnel decisions as well, but who knows. In any case, giving Spielman the axe would be a huge mistake, on a par with the mistake that was hiring Chilly. I hope they can him.

[Fritz]

Well. Zygi really had no choice, just as Jerry Jones had no choice two weeks ago. The team was gone, long, long gone.

My guess would be that Frazier knows he has to assert control over the team immediately - and the way you do that is by taking the top dog and making sure he know's he's #2, not #1.

And I don't mean Adrian Peterson or Pat Williams or Visigoth Shiancoe or Antoine Winfield or Kevin "Willaims" or Sydney Rice....

[channtheman]

Now the big question after the Phillips and Chilly firings: Why do the owners wait until the season is gone to fire the head coach?

[pbmax]

Now the big question after the Phillips and Chilly firings: Why do the owners wait until the season is gone to fire the head coach?

Because results of in season terminations are rarely good enough to matter. Its not a move known for getting a team into the playoffs. And a boost just gets you a worse draft pick.

Owners might want to look at all the available candidates (Gruden, Holmgren, Cowher, etc.) or want to change systems and not have the fired guy's hand picked assistant in charge.

[Bossman641]

From all I’ve been reading, it seems like there will be a lot more in-house hires than ever before. With the threat of a lockout, owners don’t want to be stuck paying big money to Gruden or Cowher if there is no season next year. Also, if the lockout is to drag through the summer, that doesn’t give a new coach much time to get his offense and defense installed.

I hope this move kick starts the Vikings. A win against Chicago would really help us out.

When an assistant gets promoted to HC (Frazier, Garrett), is there any bump in their salary? My guess would be no, but I’m wondering if anyone knows the definitive answer.

[ThunderDan]

From all I’ve been reading, it seems like there will be a lot more in-house hires than ever before. With the threat of a lockout, owners don’t want to be stuck paying big money to Gruden or Cowher if there is no season next year. Also, if the lockout is to drag through the summer, that doesn’t give a new coach much time to get his offense and defense installed.

I hope this move kick starts the Vikings. A win against Chicago would really help us out.

When an assistant gets promoted to HC (Frazier, Garrett), is there any bump in their salary? My guess would be no, but I’m wondering if anyone knows the definitive answer.

I read that article too. But the more I think about it, it seems like a pile of BS. The NFL owners get their TV money no matter what next year. While teams will lose ticket sales (maybe not for GB, I am sure I will have to pay my $450 by next April if there is or isn't a season or lose my season tickets) I am guessing teams will be more profitable without a season. You can cut $115,000,000 in payroll while loosing maybe $90,0000,000 in ticket sales.

[Bossman641]

I read that article too. But the more I think about it, it seems like a pile of BS. The NFL owners get their TV money no matter what next year. While teams will lose ticket sales (maybe not for GB, I am sure I will have to pay my $450 by next April if there is or isn't a season or lose my season tickets) I am guessing teams will be more profitable without a season. You can cut $115,000,000 in payroll while loosing maybe $90,0000,000 in ticket sales.

Well, without even getting into the monetary side of it, it makes a lot of sense to me that you would want to give an in-house assistant a chance first and let him get to work on tweaking the schemes rather than having to overhaul the whole thing without mini-camps and all the other offseason activities.

[vince]

Don't fret for Chilly folks. He has experience in male stripper selection...
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c343/twernke/Packers/visanthe-shiancoe-vikings-locker-room.jpg

...and airline stewardtry...
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c343/twernke/Packers/27ee9ca56e8f236d9ac5d7ecbcb9faab_bradchildressflig htattendantpics.jpg

...and cab driving....
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c343/twernke/Packers/Chili-Cab.jpg

...and fast food...
http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c343/twernke/Packers/Chili-BK-1.jpg

He's got options and will land on his feet.

[ThunderDan]

Well, without even getting into the monetary side of it, it makes a lot of sense to me that you would want to give an in-house assistant a chance first and let him get to work on tweaking the schemes rather than having to overhaul the whole thing without mini-camps and all the other offseason activities.

Yeah, I understand that. But if you can get a Gruden or a Cowher isn't it worth the risk? I am not sure on this one.

You could almost blow up your team and blame a short year and say we will be good again in 2012. It might take some of the pressure off of performing in the first year. Just throwing that out there!

[Jimx29]

hmmmm....seems as though posting embedded videos/html has been disabled

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB_BlN-3FVU

[Bossman641]

Good point. With how fickle most fans are, I think it would be a hard sell to ask them to wait a year because the coach only had a month to install his system, even if that does make the most sense on the surface. You know that wherever one of those coaches ends up the fans will expect immediate improvement.

[vince]

hmmmm....seems as though posting embedded videos/html has been disabled

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB_BlN-3FVU


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB_BlN-3FVU

[Lurker64]

You know, if the Packers can somehow get (Atlanta coach) Mike Smith fired next week, we have a shot at getting five coaches in a row fired, what with San Francisco and Detroit coming up after the Atlanta game.

Does anybody have pictures of Mike Smith murdering a hooker that we can release during the game?

[BobDobbs]

The recession in cleats rumbles on. I personally think we should also count losing Kevin Kolb his job, but that's kind of stat padding.

As well as the Falcons resurrection is going, I think you're going to need pictures of a child hooker, a regular old dead hooker is just not going to do it.

Realistically, I think we can get Singletary fired. It's going to be tough, because it's in Lambeau so he's got more excuses. But, the 9ers came in with playoff expectations.

That's why it's going to be so hard to get Jim Schwartz fired, low expectations. It's going to have to be an epic meltdown.

In a dream scenario they both go down and the Bears begin an epic collapse which is completed by an embarrassing destruction at Lambeau that ends Lovie Smith's run. Seriously though, if the bears don't make the playoffs we may have new coaching staffs in every other divisional team next year. That's how you win a division.

[LP]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/22/leslie-frazier-says-hes-ready-to-lead-the-vikings/

The new coach has spoken. Berts gonna start and the turnovers are gonna come down. We're gonna get it going as a football team.


Sounds just like the old coach.

[denverYooper]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/22/leslie-frazier-says-hes-ready-to-lead-the-vikings/

The new coach has spoken. Berts gonna start and the turnovers are gonna come down. We're gonna get it going as a football team.


Sounds just like the old coach.

We'll see how it goes. I hope they win a few and rally enough to take care of the Bears in the dome.

[Packgator]

We'll see how it goes. I hope they win a few and rally enough to take care of the Bears in the dome.

And to keep their draft position from being to early.

[Lurker64]

And to keep their draft position from being to early.

Kind of hoping the Vikings beat the Eagles, Giants, and Bears while losing to the Bills, Lions, and Redskins.

[sheepshead]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PB_BlN-3FVU

Dats a Beautiful Ting.

[Bretsky]

Some genius predicted this firing and hiring yesterday in the game day thread. Favre's crappy play helped lead to the firing but his superior play last year helped Chilly get several million dollars as well on an extension

[Scott Campbell]

And his boneheaded play to Tracy Porter ended their season. In fact that might have been the turning point that led to Chili's firing.

[Bretsky]

I'd take the extension and they can fire me any day they want

[3irty1]

Anyone know how much they had to pay Childress to leave? Had to be like 9 million or so. That is not a trivial amount of money. Not good for a team that is in the very bottom of revenues.

[Fritz]

Unlike the players, fans can take an extra couple days to savor the victories...and the firings of coaches from beloved teams like the Vikings and Cowboys.

Enjoy!

[Cheesehead Craig]

Anyone know how much they had to pay Childress to leave? Had to be like 9 million or so. That is not a trivial amount of money. Not good for a team that is in the very bottom of revenues.
I heard it was 6.6M

[MichiganPackerFan]

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/11/22/leslie-frazier-says-hes-ready-to-lead-the-vikings/

The new coach has spoken. Berts gonna start and the turnovers are gonna come down. We're gonna get it going as a football team.


Sounds just like the old coach.

Meet the new coach, same as the old coach.

I do hope the Lions pass them in the standings!

[gbpackfan]

God it would be sweet for the Queens to finish in the NFC North basement.

[Scott Campbell]

God it would be sweet for the Queens to finish in the NFC North basement.


To me it would be sweeter to see them drafting outside of the top 10. Their year is over already. The degree of failure is irrelevant to me.

[3irty1]

I heard it was 6.6M

The Packers public books state that profit from operations was 9.8 million last year.

The Vikings books aren't public but the following quote from Jerry Jones discussing the revenue sharing that exists under the current CBA where revenues of the top 10 teams are shared with the bottom 10.


"Right now, we are subsidizing this market," Jones said of NFL owners. "It's unthinkable to think that you've got the market you got here - 3 1/2 million people - and have teams like Kansas City and Green Bay subsidizing the market. That will stop. "

If we are in the top 10 in revenue and the Vikings are in the bottom 10, and our profits were 9.8M last year... how can a team like the Vikings afford to piss away 6.6M on a newly extended coach? Where's Patler?

[Packgator]

Vikings season is a colossal failure. Even if they go 5-1 (the rest of the way) with Favre at QB......the season will remain a colossal failure. They only way for them to salvage something would be to go 5-1 or 4-2 (the rest of the way) with a QB that will be there next year. And it appears they are not willing to try that.

[Fritz]

Jerry's pulling out the old tricks - sucking up to the KC's and GB's of the world by mentioning that they are subsidizing teams like the Viqueens.

Jerry, you just don't want to subsidize those teams.

I imagine he'd be fine with a baseball-like system in which a few huge market teams dominate most of the time, and the smaller teams scramble to talent that they either cannot find (Pittsburgh) or cannot afford to keep (Pittsburgh, Minnesota).

Wouldn't that suck - have the small market teams do all the hard work of scouting and drafting the talent, developing it, then having to trade it away to the New Yorks, New Englands, and Dallases of the world?

[superfan]

how can a team like the Vikings afford to piss away 6.6M on a newly extended coach?

Profits from all those new Moss 84 jerseys they sold this year.

[Patler]

The Packers public books state that profit from operations was 9.8 million last year.

The Vikings books aren't public but the following quote from Jerry Jones discussing the revenue sharing that exists under the current CBA where revenues of the top 10 teams are shared with the bottom 10.



If we are in the top 10 in revenue and the Vikings are in the bottom 10, and our profits were 9.8M last year... how can a team like the Vikings afford to piss away 6.6M on a newly extended coach? Where's Patler?

Could be lots of things, the most simple being that their owner is willing to operate at a loss, for whatever reason, for a given period.

[Joemailman]

I think every thing Zygi had done the last couple of years is aimed at getting the people of Minnesota to provide him with a new stadium. He's willing to take short-term losses to achieve it. The plan, shall we say, has run into some obstacles this year.

[Fritz]

I think every thing Zygi had done the last couple of years is aimed at getting the people of Minnesota to provide him with a new stadium. He's willing to take short-term losses to achieve it. The plan, shall we say, has run into some obstacles this year.

Isn't threatening to leave the city the most tried-and-true tactic?

By the by, did Jerry Jones pay for his JerryDome all by hisself, or did the taxpayers of the Republic of Texas help him out with that?

[swede]

If you had to give percentages, Joemailman, what are the % for the Vikings staying in Minny?

[Packgator]

Isn't threatening to leave the city the most tried-and-true tactic?

By the by, did Jerry Jones pay for his JerryDome all by hisself, or did the taxpayers of the Republic of Texas help him out with that?

350 million (give or take) was provided by city (325) and county (25) taxpayers. I think the NFL chipped in a little too.

[3irty1]

Could be lots of things, the most simple being that their owner is willing to operate at a loss, for whatever reason, for a given period.

Owning the Vikings is a pretty expensive hobby. if the 3.5 million lousy fans in MN can't turn you a profit I'd be awfully tempted to trade them for 15 million lousy LA fans and a new stadium.

[Joemailman]

If you had to give percentages, Joemailman, what are the % for the Vikings staying in Minny?

I'd put it at about 80%. Sounds like the incoming Governor wants to get it done, and he says the lack of success on the field this year should not be an issue.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/blogs/Hot_Dish_Politics.html

Dayton said the Vikings’ on-the-field woes – the team has just three wins this year – should not impact the stadium issue. “It would be better if they were undefeated and, yes, [going to] the Super Bowl would definitely help the matter,” he said, smiling.
But he said building a new stadium, with public financing, is “a decision that’s going to affect the future of the team and the state of Minnesota for the next 50 years. So, it’s not a function of how well the team’s performing this year.”
Dayton’s comments were some of his strongest on a new Vikings stadium, an issue that is likely again to face legislators starting in January. The team, which has played at the Metrodome in downtown Minneapolis since the early 1980s, has said it will not renew its lease at the facility when it expires at the end of the next season.
Dayton’s comments also came a week after Republican legislative leaders, who will assume a majority in both the House and Senate in January, expressed support for addressing the issue at some point during the upcoming legislative session. In speaking to reporters Monday, Dayton said much of what happened regarding the stadium next year would depend on the Legislature’s new Republican leadership.
“I’ve said all along I support a ‘people’s stadium’ – one that’s in the public interest, one in which the public benefits [are] greater than the public cost,” he said.

[Cheesehead Craig]

I really don't think it's that high, not for the upcoming session at least. The state is still in the red and Hennepin County won't support another stadium tax (they already have one for the Twins). There isn't a whole lot of traction right now for one as Ziggy wants a 1B+ stadium.

[Scott Campbell]

What are the chances the Zygi is already negotiating with one of the LA stadium groups?

[LP]

If Zygi did move the train wreck to LA, maybe it would be close enough to talk Bert into coming and throwing to the team recievers instead of a bunch of high schoolers or Wrangler actors.

[Joemailman]

If Zygi did move the train wreck to LA, maybe it would be close enough to talk Bert into coming and throwing to the team recievers instead of a bunch of high schoolers or Wrangler actors.

Um...Hattiesburg to L.A. is about 800 miles more than Hattiesburg to Minneapolis.

[pbmax]

The Packers public books state that profit from operations was 9.8 million last year.

The Vikings books aren't public but the following quote from Jerry Jones discussing the revenue sharing that exists under the current CBA where revenues of the top 10 teams are shared with the bottom 10.



If we are in the top 10 in revenue and the Vikings are in the bottom 10, and our profits were 9.8M last year... how can a team like the Vikings afford to piss away 6.6M on a newly extended coach? Where's Patler?

The profit figure does not figure into whether the Packers contribute to the local revenue share pool, just revenue counts if I remember correctly. It is possible the lower revenue teams are clearing more profit than the Packers. And I don't think the Packers have contributed to the pool every year since 2006. The refurbished Lambeau bump has been passed by other teams with newer streams of revenue/stadium upgrades.

[LP]

Uhh... Noo....Lower Alabama is only about 75 miles from Hattiesburg. Jeeesh, what planet are you from? (insert sarcasm and smiley face here)

[Guiness]

Jerry's pulling out the old tricks - sucking up to the KC's and GB's of the world by mentioning that they are subsidizing teams like the Viqueens.

Jerry, you just don't want to subsidize those teams.

I imagine he'd be fine with a baseball-like system in which a few huge market teams dominate most of the time, and the smaller teams scramble to talent that they either cannot find (Pittsburgh) or cannot afford to keep (Pittsburgh, Minnesota).

Wouldn't that suck - have the small market teams do all the hard work of scouting and drafting the talent, developing it, then having to trade it away to the New Yorks, New Englands, and Dallases of the world?


Trading it away would be bad enough, but of course, if you're truly talking about a baseball-like system, they would get nothing for it when the bigger teams signed them as FA's after their initial contract was up. (compensatory picks just don't cut it)

[Fritz]

I'd put it at about 80%. Sounds like the incoming Governor wants to get it done, and he says the lack of success on the field this year should not be an issue.

http://www.startribune.com/politics/blogs/Hot_Dish_Politics.html

Dayton said the Vikings’ on-the-field woes – the team has just three wins this year – should not impact the stadium issue. “It would be better if they were undefeated and, yes, [going to] the Super Bowl would definitely help the matter,” he said, smiling.
But he said building a new stadium, with public financing, is “a decision that’s going to affect the future of the team and the state of Minnesota for the next 50 years. So, it’s not a function of how well the team’s performing this year.”
Dayton’s comments were some of his strongest on a new Vikings stadium, an issue that is likely again to face legislators starting in January. The team, which has played at the Metrodome in downtown Minneapolis since the early 1980s, has said it will not renew its lease at the facility when it expires at the end of the next season.
Dayton’s comments also came a week after Republican legislative leaders, who will assume a majority in both the House and Senate in January, expressed support for addressing the issue at some point during the upcoming legislative session. In speaking to reporters Monday, Dayton said much of what happened regarding the stadium next year would depend on the Legislature’s new Republican leadership.
“I’ve said all along I support a ‘people’s stadium’ – one that’s in the public interest, one in which the public benefits [are] greater than the public cost,” he said.


I read an interesting article about three years ago - where, I cannot remember - that made a strong case that there is no case in which a publicly financed stadium has benefits that outweigh the costs. The direct economic impact of a stadium occurs in a very limited area of any downtown - if you took the same amount of money that a stadium would require and put it into a downtown development authority, the entire city and state would receive far greater benefits for a far wider range of any given city.

[ThunderDan]

I read an interesting article about three years ago - where, I cannot remember - that made a strong case that there is no case in which a publicly financed stadium has benefits that outweigh the costs. The direct economic impact of a stadium occurs in a very limited area of any downtown - if you took the same amount of money that a stadium would require and put it into a downtown development authority, the entire city and state would receive far greater benefits for a far wider range of any given city.

Not sure about that Fritz. I had a client who owned hotels in GB, Appleton and Oshkosh and every playoff game was another $30,000 dropped to the bottom line on each hotel. 3 hotels filled for two nights in mid-January is a owner's wet dream. Then there is the sales tax on the room, room tax and people buying food & beverage which you collect sales tax on.

[Joemailman]

I read an interesting article about three years ago - where, I cannot remember - that made a strong case that there is no case in which a publicly financed stadium has benefits that outweigh the costs. The direct economic impact of a stadium occurs in a very limited area of any downtown - if you took the same amount of money that a stadium would require and put it into a downtown development authority, the entire city and state would receive far greater benefits for a far wider range of any given city.

I know that same argument was made back when the Bears were talking about a new stadium, before the decision was made to renovate Soldier Field. What usually happens in a case like the Vikings have (threatening to leave completely) is that politicians cave rather than be known forever as the ones that let the city/state's favorite team get away.

[Fritz]

Not sure about that Fritz. I had a client who owned hotels in GB, Appleton and Oshkosh and every playoff game was another $30,000 dropped to the bottom line on each hotel. 3 hotels filled for two nights in mid-January is a owner's wet dream. Then there is the sales tax on the room, room tax and people buying food & beverage which you collect sales tax on.

Dan, that's three hotels for two nights of a year. And if you look at how much taxpayer dime is dropped on a stadium - millions and millions, right? - that two-night stand, plus the other eight home games - how many weekends a year is that, nine or ten out of 50-some weekends? - that's not a very good rate of return compared to investing in infrastructure, and luring businesses with tax breaks.

Besides, the kinds of jobs that a new stadium will get you are mostly in the low-paying part of the service sector - hotel jobs, restaurant jobs - as opposed to using an equivalent amount of taxpayer cash to invest in a city's infrastructure and in bringing businesses in that will bring in a more professional class of people, who will themselves then start to go out on weekends, go to restaurants, and the like.

M yopinion is that the whole "it-is-good-for-the-economy" argument completely ignores what you could do for a city and state's economy by taking that exact same amount of taxpayer coin and investing it in other, more useful ways.

[ThunderDan]

Dan, that's three hotels for two nights of a year. And if you look at how much taxpayer dime is dropped on a stadium - millions and millions, right? - that two-night stand, plus the other eight home games - how many weekends a year is that, nine or ten out of 50-some weekends? - that's not a very good rate of return compared to investing in infrastructure, and luring businesses with tax breaks.

Besides, the kinds of jobs that a new stadium will get you are mostly in the low-paying part of the service sector - hotel jobs, restaurant jobs - as opposed to using an equivalent amount of taxpayer cash to invest in a city's infrastructure and in bringing businesses in that will bring in a more professional class of people, who will themselves then start to go out on weekends, go to restaurants, and the like.

M yopinion is that the whole "it-is-good-for-the-economy" argument completely ignores what you could do for a city and state's economy by taking that exact same amount of taxpayer coin and investing it in other, more useful ways.

Fritz its 10 weekend a year, and with the playoffs it can be another 2. That is almost 25% of all weekends. Have you tried to book a hotel on a GB Packer weekend. There are none to book in a 50 mile radius so its hundreds and hundreds of hotels. Think of the impact for restaurants, bars, etc.... We had to stay in a Microtel Suite in Oshkosh one year because that was all that was available.

Without hard numbers I think it would be hard to argue either side with any certainty.

[pbmax]

Not sure about that Fritz. I had a client who owned hotels in GB, Appleton and Oshkosh and every playoff game was another $30,000 dropped to the bottom line on each hotel. 3 hotels filled for two nights in mid-January is a owner's wet dream. Then there is the sales tax on the room, room tax and people buying food & beverage which you collect sales tax on.

There are several studies (not the ones provided by teams) that point out that the largest source of revenue claimed by the economic impact reports involve discretionary income that would otherwise be spent on alternate activities. Not that the absence of a team would be net neutral, but that the largest financial drivers are wildly overstated. Visitors, taxes and hotel/restaurants, etc. would take a hit, but those account for a small percentage of the claimed economic impact.

Green Bay might be an exception given that the ticket base is from all over the state and the community is smaller. But overall the claims of impact are grossly exaggerated by teams. Cities, like an athletic department at a University, they hope its neutral and then reap ancillary benefits not tied directly to the game (prestige, donations, good will).

[pbmax]

Just some light reading:
http://www.brookings.edu/articles/1997/summer_taxes_noll.aspx
http://news.illinois.edu/news/04/1117stadiums.html
http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2008/05/sports-stadiums-and-economic-development-a-summary-of-the-economics-literature/
http://www.imakenews.com/cppa/e_article000623460.cfm?x=b11,0,w
http://www.cato.org/pubs/regulation/regv23n2/coates.pdf

This was just a Google search and a brief glimpse would indicate these articles will take the view that the impact is overblown. I welcome opposing evidence, articles, etc. I might pay for reading the impact Jerry said that Cowboys Stadium would have. Texas sized claims indeed.

[Fritz]

Great, PB. Way to go. Trying to get factual information involved when Dan and I were perfectly fine making vague claims. We could've ended up flaming each other if you'd have left the damn facts and studies out.

This is sports talk, man. Don't you know that facts get in the way?

[ThunderDan]

Great, PB. Way to go. Trying to get factual information involved when Dan and I were perfectly fine making vague claims. We could've ended up flaming each other if you'd have left the damn facts and studies out.

This is sports talk, man. Don't you know that facts get in the way?

Hey Fritz let's flame PB for fucking our thread up.

[Fritz]

Agreed. He and Patler are always throwing those goddamn facts around.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Dan, that's three hotels for two nights of a year. And if you look at how much taxpayer dime is dropped on a stadium - millions and millions, right? - that two-night stand, plus the other eight home games - how many weekends a year is that, nine or ten out of 50-some weekends? - that's not a very good rate of return compared to investing in infrastructure, and luring businesses with tax breaks.

Besides, the kinds of jobs that a new stadium will get you are mostly in the low-paying part of the service sector - hotel jobs, restaurant jobs - as opposed to using an equivalent amount of taxpayer cash to invest in a city's infrastructure and in bringing businesses in that will bring in a more professional class of people, who will themselves then start to go out on weekends, go to restaurants, and the like.

M yopinion is that the whole "it-is-good-for-the-economy" argument completely ignores what you could do for a city and state's economy by taking that exact same amount of taxpayer coin and investing it in other, more useful ways.

Completely agree with you Fritz. THe only case I've seen that's different is the Verizon Center (Wizards / Capitals) where the arena was a centerpiece of large neighborhood improvement. I havent lived here that long, but from what i've heard, the impact and improvement was substantial.

[gbgary]

don't know if anyone noticed but if you have directv (don't know if it's on dish) there is a show called vikings weekly. for last week they reran the previous week's show previewing the upcoming Packers game. they totally avoided a show with the game's outcome, chilly's firing, and bf's dramatics.

[MadScientist]

I can see that the impact on a large city would not generally be worth the expense of a stadium, but I would think GB would be an exception. GB without the Packers would be another forgettable Midwestern town, with no reason for any outsiders to go there.

I realize this is a Vikings thread, so perhaps if they put the new stadium inside the Mall of America, it would have the desired impact.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Vikings asked for a new stadium, and all they received was a Big Top!!!


http://image.shutterstock.com/display_pic_with_logo/103246/103246,1218310919,1/stock-photo-circus-big-top-tent-in-field-decorated-with-stars-and-stripes-15935209.jpg

[Guiness]

The way the cities/municipalities/counties choose to pay off the stadiums is atrocious, I might add.

I had to go to Houston on business a couple of years ago, and was dumbfounded at the surcharges on my flight and rental car. Some sort of a sport's authority charge on the flight, motel room had a surcharge, and the rental car had a "per day" fee of like $9 tacked on! I was there to work, and was certainly not going to benefit from any of that crap, and annoyed at having to pay for them.

I returned the rental car to a lot in town, and rented another one (no surcharge because I didn't pick it up at the airport) and moved to a motel in Keady. It was a bit of a pita, but the principal of the thing really ticked me off.

I have avoided Houston at least partially for that reason (another is that it's a shitty city). You'd think someone would clue in to how stupid the idea is. I guess in their mind, they're grabbing money from people who aren't voters in their area.

[MichiganPackerFan]

The way the cities/municipalities/counties choose to pay off the stadiums is atrocious, I might add.

I had to go to Houston on business a couple of years ago, and was dumbfounded at the surcharges on my flight and rental car. Some sort of a sport's authority charge on the flight, motel room had a surcharge, and the rental car had a "per day" fee of like $9 tacked on! I was there to work, and was certainly not going to benefit from any of that crap, and annoyed at having to pay for them.

I returned the rental car to a lot in town, and rented another one (no surcharge because I didn't pick it up at the airport) and moved to a motel in Keady. It was a bit of a pita, but the principal of the thing really ticked me off.

I have avoided Houston at least partially for that reason (another is that it's a shitty city). You'd think someone would clue in to how stupid the idea is. I guess in their mind, they're grabbing money from people who aren't voters in their area.

Texas doesn't have an individual income tax, so they have to get their cash somewhere!!!

[Guiness]

Texas doesn't have an individual income tax, so they have to get their cash somewhere!!!

Well, I do have income tax, and don't appreciate paying their's as well!:evil:

[MichiganPackerFan]

Well, I do have income tax, and don't appreciate paying their's as well!:evil:

Totally agree. Fuggum.