McCarthy = Sherman?

[rbaloha1]

Its apparent McCarthy continually gets overly conservative in crucial situations (2qb runs at the goal line) like Sherman (recall the 04 Eagles playoff game).

Both have a .333 playoff winning percentage.

What do you guys think?

[denverYooper]

5 wide at the GL is not exactly conservative. I thought at least one of those sneaks was A-Rod's choice and was supposed to be a pass.

[pbmax]

There is too much to this comparison to make me comfortable.

[Freak Out]

I'm just glad M3 is not the GM as well.

[red]

5 wide at the GL is not exactly conservative. I thought at least one of those sneaks was A-Rod's choice and was supposed to be a pass.

4 or 5 times we were in short yardage situations and went empty backfield with 5 wide. every time it was a QB draw. plus i believe we ran it twice back to back on the goal line with the second one being the a-rod fumble

it wasn't fooling anyone and looked once again like M3 thought he was smarter then everyone else, and wasn't

[rbaloha1]

4 or 5 times we were in short yardage situations and went empty backfield with 5 wide. every time it was a QB draw. plus i believe we ran it twice back to back on the goal line with the second one being the a-rod fumble

it wasn't fooling anyone and looked once again like M3 thought he was smarter then everyone else, and wasn't

QB sneaks/runs are the safest/most conservative plays next to attempting to draw the defense offside (recall Sherman 04 Eagles playoff game).

Combined with failure to challenge plays (recall always an issue with Sherman) MM is another Sherman -- great play caller against lesser opponents when anything works but a poor play caller in crucial situations in important games.

Should the Packers fail to make the playoffs MM should be terminated. Keep the defensive staff.

[MichiganPackerFan]

No.

[rbaloha1]

No.

Please elaborate

[MichiganPackerFan]

Please elaborate

"Nope" ?

[MichiganPackerFan]

seriously though, MM's got a LOT of productions out of a skeleton of a roster. I don't think Sherman could do that, because he did not place any value on the bottom of a roster.

[Joemailman]

There is too much to this comparison to make me comfortable.

And he didn't even mention they're both named Mike.

[Cheesehead Craig]

QB sneaks/runs are the safest/most conservative plays next to attempting to draw the defense offside (recall Sherman 04 Eagles playoff game).

Combined with failure to challenge plays (recall always an issue with Sherman) MM is another Sherman -- great play caller against lesser opponents when anything works but a poor play caller in crucial situations in important games.

Should the Packers fail to make the playoffs MM should be terminated. Keep the defensive staff.
Hasn't MM been on fire this year with challenges? He's done a great job on those.

MM can create a great passing offense but definately needs work on the running part. No reason at all to terminate him.

[denverYooper]

4 or 5 times we were in short yardage situations and went empty backfield with 5 wide. every time it was a QB draw. plus i believe we ran it twice back to back on the goal line with the second one being the a-rod fumble

it wasn't fooling anyone and looked once again like M3 thought he was smarter then everyone else, and wasn't

It looked like Rodgers checked into 2 of those and 2 were called.

[denverYooper]

QB sneaks/runs are the safest/most conservative plays next to attempting to draw the defense offside (recall Sherman 04 Eagles playoff game).

Combined with failure to challenge plays (recall always an issue with Sherman) MM is another Sherman -- great play caller against lesser opponents when anything works but a poor play caller in crucial situations in important games.

Should the Packers fail to make the playoffs MM should be terminated. Keep the defensive staff.

I don't consider any play that subjects your franchise quarterback to punishment to be "conservative".

WRT challenges, I think that after M3 made a blind challenge of the Jones fumble in the Bears game he decided against challenging without visual evidence. He went from being criticized for being too loose with his challenge flag to too tight. Obviously he needs to find some kind of middle ground but I'm not going to say that his new-found grip on the challenge flag (in away games) represents a trend. He is 3/3 on challenges since the Bears game but this game makes for a good case that he needs to evaluate his challenge strategy some more and see that it is OK to take a shot on a call like that.

[hoosier]

Its apparent McCarthy continually gets overly conservative in crucial situations (2qb runs at the goal line) like Sherman (recall the 04 Eagles playoff game).

Both have a .333 playoff winning percentage.

What do you guys think?

Sherman's conservatism was his failure to go for it on 4th and 1. McCarthy's lapse yesterday was leaving in a QB sneak call after the Falcons had put in a defensive package which made that a bad play call. That may be something else but it's not conservative.

Whatever happened or didn't happen yesterday, I hate the idea of drawing broad sketches and such based on one game. The important question, to my mind, is, did Green Bay make mistakes yesterday that are reflective of an ongoing bad trend? The big play on the last kickoff return is surely one example. I am not sure that the problems in the red zone yesterday were indicative of any kind of broad problem with play calling, however.

[red]

seriously though, MM's got a LOT of productions out of a skeleton of a roster. I don't think Sherman could do that, because he did not place any value on the bottom of a roster.

is that M3 though getting the most out of those players?

m3 runs the offense, its lost 3 guys (grant, finley, and tauscher) the # 1 draft pick filled in for mark and has done fine for a rookie. but the running game has sucked since we lost grant, and the te's are a far cry from finley and lee.

on the other side of the ball, the defense has lost a ton of guys, and yet new guys continue to step up and play well

to me it looks more like capers getting the most out of his players and m3 not getting so much out of his

[mmmdk]

McCarthy might last 2-3 seasons still but if Dom Capers has ambitions to be a head coach again, hence leaving Packland, then Stubby is in big trouble...and quickly too.

[rbaloha1]

Sherman's conservatism was his failure to go for it on 4th and 1. McCarthy's lapse yesterday was leaving in a QB sneak call after the Falcons had put in a defensive package which made that a bad play call. That may be something else but it's not conservative.

Whatever happened or didn't happen yesterday, I hate the idea of drawing broad sketches and such based on one game. The important question, to my mind, is, did Green Bay make mistakes yesterday that are reflective of an ongoing bad trend? The big play on the last kickoff return is surely one example. I am not sure that the problems in the red zone yesterday were indicative of any kind of broad problem with play calling, however.

How many close games have the Packers lost this season? Are these due to McCarthy?

[rbaloha1]

Hasn't MM been on fire this year with challenges? He's done a great job on those.

MM can create a great passing offense but definately needs work on the running part. No reason at all to terminate him.

What if the PAckers fail to make the playoffs? As MM has pointed-out -- "In Green Bay you are judged by championships." MM and Sherman -- Zero!

[pbmax]

4 or 5 times we were in short yardage situations and went empty backfield with 5 wide. every time it was a QB draw. plus i believe we ran it twice back to back on the goal line with the second one being the a-rod fumble

it wasn't fooling anyone and looked once again like M3 thought he was smarter then everyone else, and wasn't

It wasn't a QB draw each time. One sneak was Rodgers' checkdown and there were at least two Go patterns out of that formation on that down and distance.

[pbmax]

is that M3 though getting the most out of those players?

m3 runs the offense, its lost 3 guys (grant, finley, and tauscher) the # 1 draft pick filled in for mark and has done fine for a rookie. but the running game has sucked since we lost grant, and the te's are a far cry from finley and lee.

on the other side of the ball, the defense has lost a ton of guys, and yet new guys continue to step up and play well

to me it looks more like capers getting the most out of his players and m3 not getting so much out of his

True. But as has been pointed out, teams responded to Finley being out by playing Cover 2 on run downs, seven in the box and daring the Packers to run while they defended the pass. The run game has not been able to take full advantage. So Grant being gone hurts both phases. Same with Finley. If the Defense played Cover 2 against him most downs, he would be in the Pro Bowl by mid-season. Teams were committing two players to him early. Not only does his absence hurt the pass game, but it also uncomplicates formations like 2 TEs, which reduces the run game options.

M3 has had to change the offense on the fly and that is the reason it looks more 2008 than 2009. Or even 2007, because before Grant really took off, the Big 5 personnel was the 3rd down package.

[superfan]

How many close games have the Packers lost this season? Are these due to McCarthy?

A lot went wrong in the Washington game and as a whole, there were a lot of contributing factors in that loss. The most obvious to us fans was the Crosby last second clank off the upright that would have been the game winner if it had just been another foot over. Does the result of that kick make McCarthy a better or worse coach? I don't think so.

[Fritz]

I think MM's a better coach. Shermy's teams were often flat early on, it seemed to me. And I don't think he got the most he could from the talent he had - I'm thinking that Philly playoff game, for one example.

No, we don't really know who MM is "like" as a coach.

[sheepshead]

McCarthy = Marty Mornhinweg

[MichiganPackerFan]

A lot went wrong in the Washington game and as a whole, there were a lot of contributing factors in that loss. The most obvious to us fans was the Crosby last second clank off the upright that would have been the game winner if it had just been another foot over. Does the result of that kick make McCarthy a better or worse coach? I don't think so.

That sucked because we shelled out a lot of cash to go to that one. Finley getting hurt right away didn't help. Clay getting hurt in the second half didn't help. Didn't Pickett get hurt too?

[3irty1]

I could make a more convincing thread called McCarthy = Belichick?

[rbaloha1]

McCarthy = Marty Mornhinweg

Harsh but true.

[rbaloha1]

I could make a more convincing thread called McCarthy = Belichick?

Just like Sterger = Mrs. Favre?

[MichiganPackerFan]

Just like Sterger = Mrs. Favre?

Sterger = Mrs. Favre - Age

[pbmax]

Harsh but true.

You have got to be kidding me. He blew the coin toss to an overtime game. Beyond that, its hard to get a handle on how bad he was with Millen as GM.

I have some issues with M3s use of timeouts and his challenge record, but Marty couldn't demonstrate he could win in the NFL period.

[rbaloha1]

Sterger = Mrs. Favre - Age

Good one. Okay

McCarthy - brains = Belichek

[denverYooper]

Good one. Okay

McCarthy - brains = Belichek

So McCarthy = Belichek + brains? Sweet!

[channtheman]

So McCarthy = Belichek + brains? Sweet!

Yeah he did that wrong. The correct way to do it would be

McCarthy = Belichek - brains

[Cheesehead Craig]

Wondering where all the fire MM threads were the last month.

[denverYooper]

Yeah he did that wrong. The correct way to do it would be

McCarthy = Belichek - brains

Belichick was 36-44 in his first 5 years as HC of the Cleveland Browns and did a whole lotta losing before he became a winner. McCarthy is currently 45-30 partway thru his 5th year as HC of the Green Bay Packers and IMHO is learning the job pretty well.

[mmmdk]

The sheer talent drafted & acquired by TT is what keeps Stubby alive. :clap: Capers keep HC alive too!

[sheepshead]

Wondering where all the fire MM threads were the last month.

I'm not sure he should be fired, but I have thought for a long long time that our general manager is much better at his job then our head coach is at his.

[Pugger]

You guys kill me. When we lose a close game to the top team in the conference at their place on a last second FG and we all want Mac's head on a platter declaring he is as bad as Shermy! But when the players actually execute these same plays and we win everything is rosy. To me ALL of the coaches - except Slocum - are doing a wonderous job with this shredded roster this year.

[denverYooper]

I think McCarthy is a lot more sharp than many give him credit for and generally does a very good job calling/planning games. There are indeed times when his game management leaves something to be desired but I think that he is improving in that area and feel he is actively trying to improve there.

The main thing that drives me bonkers about him is that he often sticks with his guys to a fault (ST staff...) That is not an issue Belichick has.

[Pugger]

I think McCarthy is a lot more sharp than many give him credit for and generally does a very good job calling/planning games. There are indeed times when his game management leaves something to be desired but I think that he is improving in that area and feel he is actively trying to improve there.

The main thing that drives me bonkers about him is that he often sticks with his guys to a fault (ST staff...) That is not an issue Belichick has.

Mac saw the error of his ways by firing Sanders and hiring Caper so there is still hope for us yet! ;-)

[Fritz]

I agreee - where were all the "MM is a shitty coach" threads last week???

The Packers lose by three to a tough team on the road and suddenly MM is a lousy coach?

This team is decimated by injury - did anyone see the JSO article suggesting that both Chillar and Havner (himself a replacement for an injured player). Yet this team is 7-4.

I have questions about MM as a coach. But I think the guy deserves a chance to keep coaching in Green Bay, at the very least through next season. At the very least. He's done a good job with the injury-riddled roster this year.

[denverYooper]

Mac saw the error of his ways by firing Sanders and hiring Caper so there is still hope for us yet! ;-)

It was never clear to me whether or not that choice was made for him. And they had a losing season, which generally means changes.

Last year they had a winning record, so he was not forced to change coaches on GBs poorest performing unit. Unfortunately, they are again in the same situation.

[MichiganPackerFan]

I agreee - where were all the "MM is a shitty coach" threads last week???

The Packers lose by three to a tough team on the road and suddenly MM is a lousy coach?

This team is decimated by injury - did anyone see the JSO article suggesting that both Chillar and Havner (himself a replacement for an injured player). Yet this team is 7-4.

I have questions about MM as a coach. But I think the guy deserves a chance to keep coaching in Green Bay, at the very least through next season. At the very least. He's done a good job with the injury-riddled roster this year.

Completely agree. All four losses on last second field goals.

[3irty1]

Good one. Okay

McCarthy - brains = Belichek

:laugh: this is exactly what I would expect from those who'd like to see McCarthy fired.

[mmmdk]

Where are all the "that's why McCarthy is a top notch coach and he's the ONE to leads to the Super Bowl" threads??? You'd have to be a freakin' nit wit to believe so. But hey, a few bad and some average coaches actually made it to the show - isn't that like clutching at straws?

[Joemailman]

Completely agree. All four losses on last second field goals.

Our field goal blocking unit sucks!

[denverYooper]

Our field goal blocking unit sucks!

That's on TT. If only he would've signed Peppers!

[3irty1]

Where are all the "that's why McCarthy is a top notch coach and he's the ONE to leads to the Super Bowl" threads??? You'd have to be a freakin' nit wit to believe so. But hey, a few bad and some average coaches actually made it to the show - isn't that like clutching at straws?

Yeah well I guess that makes me a nit wit. I'm not even close to ready for a coaching change.

What made Belichick the guy he is now? He bounced around working under great minds like Parcels but eventually became a defensive guru. What makes a Belichick defense special isn't anything schematic. His x's and o's aren't revolutionary but his methods of preparation and ability to design a game plan made him special. Belichick runs a true multiple front defense and practically invented the concept of switching you scheme every week to best stop the opposition. The versatility is amazing.

McCarthy could be the offense version of Belichick. The biggest strength he has always had as a coach is without a doubt his ability to craft an offensive game plan. This was also true of Belichick, his game plan as a defensive coordinator with the Giants against the Bills in superbowl XXV is in the pro football hall of fame. McCarthy is just now entering the part of his career that would coincide with the dominant part of Belichick's. He's off to a good start too. With help from Ted Thompson he has assembled an offense that is just as innovative and vast as Belichick's defense. A true multiples offense that changes as needed to fit personnel and take advantage of anticipated mismatches. This week we strutted into Atlanta and nearly beat them at their own game in their own house. We came out with a ton of spread and managed to move the ball up and down the field with long time consuming drives, without even having a running game. Mike Smith is a pretty great coach in his own right but if not for some poor play on the goal line, the Packers pull out an impressive road win. We lost but the game plan was there. That can be said about nearly all of our losses going back to our loss to the Saints in 2008 where we were throughly beaten, not that there is any shame in being beaten by another brilliant offensive mind like Sean Peyton.

People love to question McCarthy's game-time decisions but almost all of them are justified later and its important that he's a very young head coach and is always learning. There are literally thousands of ways to lose a football game but I'm confident that with McCarthy we'll have a great shot at winning any of them. The guy is as good a young coach as you'll find out there IMO.

[denverYooper]

Excellent post, 3irty1.

[Joemailman]

People who want to get rid of MM should consider how difficult it is to find good head coaches.

The class of 2006:

Rod Marinelli Lions 10-38 (2006-2008)
Scott Linehan Rams 11-25 (2006-2008)
Herm Edwards Chiefs 15-33 (2006-2008)
Brad Childress Vikings 39-35 (2006-2010) NFC Title Game 2009
Gary Kubiak Texans 36-39 (2006-2010)
Eric Mangini Jets 32-43 (2006-2010)
Dick Jauron Bills 24-33 (2006-2009)
Sean Payton Saints 46-29 (2006-2010) NFC Title Game 2006 Super Bowl Champions 2009
Mike McCarthy Packers 45-30 (2006-2010) NFC Title Game 2007
Art Shell Raiders 2-14 (2006)

[sheepshead]

I'm not sure there are many who want to 'get rid of MM'. For me he needs to come under more scrutiny on these boards and TT a bit less. that's all.

[superfan]

Excellent post, 3irty1.

Agreed, great post. Not quite 100% in agreement, but 3irty1 does a real nice job spelling out his strengths and potential.

Everybody wants to hire the next Lombardi or Cowher or whoever, but there is a far greater chance of getting the next Art Shell. Joemailman did a nice job showing that with his post.

I'd put McCarthy today in the lower upper half of head coaches, somewhere between 10-16 maybe, with more potential than most to someday become an elite coach. Pair that with the inherent benefits of consistency that comes from a long coaching tenure, and I see absolutely no reason to consider replacing him. I like the thought of Rodgers running McCarthy's offense for years to come.

[mmmdk]

Excellent post, 3irty1.

I respect your views & it's a good post...but comparing McCarthy to Belichick is not a compliment to him...at all. I'd give Belichick way more credit than compare him to [so far] an average head coach; compare Belichick to the greats - the Lombardi greats - as he truely deserves. Being potentially a Super Bowl coach is just a coach that hasn't done it yet and probably never will - 'cos few do. I just see no aura about McCarthy. I've said this before; it's a gut feeling call on McCarthy and trust me I won't bitch if I'm wrong [about McCarthy].

I hope YOU are right, 3irty1, and I'm wrong.

[3irty1]

mmmdk you strike me as the type who'd love a Mike Singletary or Rex Ryan type coach. McCarthy doesn't grab facemasks but with the type of players we get in Green Bay, he really doesn't need to. At some point I expect self-motivation. Its McCarthy's job to work the strategy and use his personnel. I know you weren't comparing Belichick and Lombardi but the contrast in what it takes to be a great coach in this day and age is apparent in this example. Lombardi was a motivator. Belichick, McCarthy, and a good deal of other head coaches are for the most part stone faced and boring.

McCarthy has a way to go for the comparisons in accomplishments and leadership to be accurate. Belichick puts and extreme emphasis on special teams that the Packers obviously lack. It would be nice for McCarthy and to some degree Thompson do more than lip service in this area. There is no reason a team as deep as ours shouldn't have elite teams squads every single year. Belichick is also the GM of his team and has the entire organization so under his thumb that its mind boggling that he has not spread himself thin. McCarthy prefers to delegate personnel decisions to the omnipotent Ted Thompson and even the defensive decisions to our resident defensive mastermind, Dom Capers. Make no mistake though, McCarthy is a lifelong student of the game and is absorbing everything he can from his new "co-head coach." The guy is still improving but if I were a betting man I'd mark him down for at least one superbowl. I hope it is in Green Bay. The comparisons to Sherman are insulting.

[Joemailman]

Agreed, great post. Not quite 100% in agreement, but 3irty1 does a real nice job spelling out his strengths and potential.

Everybody wants to hire the next Lombardi or Cowher or whoever, but there is a far greater chance of getting the next Art Shell. Joemailman did a nice job showing that with his post.

I'd put McCarthy today in the lower upper half of head coaches, somewhere between 10-16 maybe, with more potential than most to someday become an elite coach. Pair that with the inherent benefits of consistency that comes from a long coaching tenure, and I see absolutely no reason to consider replacing him. I like the thought of Rodgers running McCarthy's offense for years to come.

It took Cowher 14 years to win a Super Bowl, although he made the playoffs most years. Would Packer fans be that patient with McCarthy if he was winning consistently, but not winning it all?

[Guiness]

*shakes head at thought of Art Shell*

He really didn't deserve that.

[Patler]

Everybody wants to hire the next Lombardi or Cowher or whoever, but there is a far greater chance of getting the next Art Shell.

Art Shell wasn't a bad head coach the first time around, with a record of 54-38 from 1989 - 1994. Made the AFC Championship game once and was Coach of the Year. He never should have come back for a second go-around with Al Davis.

[rbaloha1]

As the board knows the Packers are currently not in the playoffs. If this trend continues should MM be retained?

[Joemailman]

If they finish 10-6 and miss the playoffs, sure. If they collapse down the stretch and finish 7-9 or 8-8, some tough questions need to be asked.

[Cheesehead Craig]

As the board knows the Packers are currently not in the playoffs. If this trend continues should MM be retained?
What trend? The Packers were in the playoffs last year. If making the playoffs and having an elite passing attack is the trend, then yes, he should be retained.

[rbaloha1]

What trend? The Packers were in the playoffs last year. If making the playoffs and having an elite passing attack is the trend, then yes, he should be retained.


The trend I was referring to is FAILURE TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS THIS SEASON NOT LAST SEASON.

TO QUOTE MM, "IN GREEN BAY YOU ARE JUDGED BY CHAMPIONSHIPS."

SHERMAN = 0 CHAMPIONSHIPS

MM = 0 CHAMPIONSHIPS

[vince]

Not to belabor the obvious, but Craig's point is that premature speculation about a possibility that hasn't occurred does not form a trend.

[mmmdk]

mmmdk you strike me as the type who'd love a Mike Singletary or Rex Ryan type coach. McCarthy doesn't grab facemasks but with the type of players we get in Green Bay, he really doesn't need to. At some point I expect self-motivation. Its McCarthy's job to work the strategy and use his personnel. I know you weren't comparing Belichick and Lombardi but the contrast in what it takes to be a great coach in this day and age is apparent in this example. Lombardi was a motivator. Belichick, McCarthy, and a good deal of other head coaches are for the most part stone faced and boring.

McCarthy has a way to go for the comparisons in accomplishments and leadership to be accurate. Belichick puts and extreme emphasis on special teams that the Packers obviously lack. It would be nice for McCarthy and to some degree Thompson do more than lip service in this area. There is no reason a team as deep as ours shouldn't have elite teams squads every single year. Belichick is also the GM of his team and has the entire organization so under his thumb that its mind boggling that he has not spread himself thin. McCarthy prefers to delegate personnel decisions to the omnipotent Ted Thompson and even the defensive decisions to our resident defensive mastermind, Dom Capers. Make no mistake though, McCarthy is a lifelong student of the game and is absorbing everything he can from his new "co-head coach." The guy is still improving but if I were a betting man I'd mark him down for at least one superbowl. I hope it is in Green Bay. The comparisons to Sherman are insulting.

Great post & I see your point. I get what you say about the "boring" coaches; Belichick and McCarthy are similar there. I just think that McCarthy lacks the intelligence and guts to reach the level of a Belichick.
As for Singletary - no thanks - but you had me going with Rex as I admire a coach like THE TUNA. Rex can win a super bowl or reach a super bowl...ONCE, I believe. Rex isn't a mastermind but you're right - I'd probably prefer Rex to a McCarthy.

Who do I really want? Belichick, but that won't happen. Sean Payton is a Disciple of the great Tuna and I have posts to prove that I endorsed the heck out of Payton. He had that intelligent fire that I seek in a head coach; it was evident during his Dallas tenure. My brother is a die hard Saints fan and he's not high on McCarthy; says McCarthy kinda faded as a playcaller.

Yet here's to McCarthy to prove doubters wrong. I just want that Lombardi trophy back to the Pack.

[Fritz]

Craig, how many teams in the NFL so far this year have made the playoffs? Has any team clinched a playoff spot yet?

No.

Thus, by your logic, all fans of all NFL teams could very well be questioning their head coaches right about now. "Hey, you know, we're not in the playoffs this year...if this keeps up, we ought to fire the coach!"

In addition, the Packers have 13 players on IR. They are winning despite losing about seven starters. For the year. Only Indianapolis is having that kind of injury problem.

[mmmdk]

Craig, how many teams in the NFL so far this year have made the playoffs? Has any team clinched a playoff spot yet?

No.

Thus, by your logic, all fans of all NFL teams could very well be questioning their head coaches right about now. "Hey, you know, we're not in the playoffs this year...if this keeps up, we ought to fire the coach!"

In addition, the Packers have 13 players on IR. They are winning despite losing about seven starters. For the year. Only Indianapolis is having that kind of injury problem.

Yeah but who's Craig? Just curious.

[swede]

mmmdk you strike me as the type who'd love a Mike Singletary or Rex Ryan type coach. McCarthy doesn't grab facemasks but with the type of players we get in Green Bay, he really doesn't need to. At some point I expect self-motivation. Its McCarthy's job to work the strategy and use his personnel. I know you weren't comparing Belichick and Lombardi but the contrast in what it takes to be a great coach in this day and age is apparent in this example. Lombardi was a motivator. Belichick, McCarthy, and a good deal of other head coaches are for the most part stone faced and boring.

McCarthy has a way to go for the comparisons in accomplishments and leadership to be accurate. Belichick puts and extreme emphasis on special teams that the Packers obviously lack. It would be nice for McCarthy and to some degree Thompson do more than lip service in this area. There is no reason a team as deep as ours shouldn't have elite teams squads every single year. Belichick is also the GM of his team and has the entire organization so under his thumb that its mind boggling that he has not spread himself thin. McCarthy prefers to delegate personnel decisions to the omnipotent Ted Thompson and even the defensive decisions to our resident defensive mastermind, Dom Capers. Make no mistake though, McCarthy is a lifelong student of the game and is absorbing everything he can from his new "co-head coach." The guy is still improving but if I were a betting man I'd mark him down for at least one superbowl. I hope it is in Green Bay. The comparisons to Sherman are insulting.

Excellent post 3irty1. But when the crippled defense holds the Falcons to twenty points and we don't win I look at Stubby and I wonder if he's the guy.

It is kind of funny. When we win he's a smart, tough, true football guy from blue collar roots in the streets of Pittsburgh. When we lose he's a stubby shlubbus without enough brains to operate a red beanbag.

[3irty1]

Excellent post 3irty1. But when the crippled defense holds the Falcons to twenty points and we don't win I look at Stubby and I wonder if he's the guy.

It is kind of funny. When we win he's a smart, tough, true football guy from blue collar roots in the streets of Pittsburgh. When we lose he's a stubby shlubbus without enough brains to operate a red beanbag.

I don't think its fair to look at points when talking about a ball control offense. Atlanta likes to shorten the game and go on really long drives. 20 for Atlanta is like 30 for most teams. You saw the game, which side of the ball would you say played better? I'd saw the O despite the fumble on the goal line that ultimately lost the game. Also which side of the ball would you say is more crippled? I'd say the offense. The two best players we've lost have come from that side of the ball. The defense is probably better than they were at this time last year.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Craig, how many teams in the NFL so far this year have made the playoffs? Has any team clinched a playoff spot yet?

No.

Thus, by your logic, all fans of all NFL teams could very well be questioning their head coaches right about now. "Hey, you know, we're not in the playoffs this year...if this keeps up, we ought to fire the coach!"

In addition, the Packers have 13 players on IR. They are winning despite losing about seven starters. For the year. Only Indianapolis is having that kind of injury problem.
Fritz,
I think you misread me. rbaloha is trolling that we haven't made the playoffs this year and thus MM is a failure and should be fired. I stated that the current trend is making the playoffs and having an elite passing attack and thus he does not need to be fired.

[Cheesehead Craig]

The trend I was referring to is FAILURE TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS THIS SEASON NOT LAST SEASON.

TO QUOTE MM, "IN GREEN BAY YOU ARE JUDGED BY CHAMPIONSHIPS."

SHERMAN = 0 CHAMPIONSHIPS

MM = 0 CHAMPIONSHIPS

So since the Packers haven't locked a playoff spot yet after 11 games he should be fired? That is the dumbest statement I've heard.

[rbaloha1]

So since the Packers haven't locked a playoff spot yet after 11 games he should be fired? That is the dumbest statement I've heard.


Never once said MM should be fired ASAP. My point is the Sherman-like qualities in crucial games.

Sherlock, YES MM SHOULD BE FIRED IF THE PACKERS FAIL TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS. THE 0 CHAMPIONSHIPS IS JUST A REMINDER THAT MM SMELLS LIKE SHERMAN. MAHALO.

[Patler]

Doesn't matter how they finish from here, MM will get a pass this season. When you lose almost 1/4 of your opening day roster to IR with only 2/3 of the season gone, including 3 starters on offense, 3 on defense, a couple of your higher draft picks and several of your better ST players, you get a pass if you do even moderately well. He has already accomplished that, and baring a real odd finish should end with a winning record.

[rbaloha1]

Doesn't matter how they finish from here, MM will get a pass this season. When you lose almost 1/4 of your opening day roster to IR with only 2/3 of the season gone, including 3 starters on offense, 3 on defense, a couple of your higher draft picks and several of your better ST players, you get a pass if you do even moderately well. He has already accomplished that, and baring a real odd finish should end with a winning record.

How many passes does MM get?

[vince]

The Packers are a young team that, under McCarthy's leadership, is clearly ascending into an NFL powerhouse. When that real trend reverses course, the talk about McCarthy getting a pass or getting fired should start. There's been no sign of that this year. With the injuries, the value of McCarthy's leadership has been reaffirmed.

[rbaloha1]

The Packers are a young team that, under McCarthy's leadership, is clearly ascending into an NFL powerhouse. When that real trend reverses course, the talk about McCarthy getting a pass or getting fired should start. There's been no sign of that this year. With the injuries, the value of McCarthy's leadership has been reaffirmed.

Please provide an example of when the real trend reverses.

[Packgator]

Atlanta likes to shorten the game and go on really long drives. 20 for Atlanta is like 30 for most teams.

Sunday's game was one of the "fastest" I've seen in a while. Seems like it was barely over 2 1/2 hours long. Wasn't really close to the 3 hours it normally takes.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Randy Wright = 0 Championships
Dan Marino = 0 Championships

Randy Wright = Dan Marino

This type of logic is fun!

[Packgator]

I respect your views & it's a good post...but comparing McCarthy to Belichick is not a compliment to him...at all. I'd give Belichick way more credit than compare him to [so far] an average head coach; compare Belichick to the greats - the Lombardi greats - as he truely deserves. Being potentially a Super Bowl coach is just a coach that hasn't done it yet and probably never will - 'cos few do. I just see no aura about McCarthy.

For what it's worth.....

W-L comparison of McCarthy and Belichick through their first 75 games as a head coach.

McCarthy...... 45-30
Belichick....... 35-40

[rbaloha1]

Randy Wright = 0 Championships
Dan Marino = 0 Championships

Randy Wright = Dan Marino

This type of logic is fun!

Trent Dilfer = Super Bowl Champion

Joe Montana = Super Bowl Champion

Dilfer = Montana

[sheepshead]

Randy Wright = 0 Championships
Dan Marino = 0 Championships

Randy Wright = Dan Marino

This type of logic is fun!

That's some funny sh*t right there.

[rbaloha1]

For what it's worth.....

W-L comparison of McCarthy and Belichick through their first 75 games as a head coach.

McCarthy...... 45-30
Belichick....... 35-40

That stat alone means the Packers must keep MM because he shall mystically ascend to the Belichek hoodie.

[rbaloha1]

That's some funny sh*t right there.

Sad but true

[Patler]

Doesn't matter how they finish from here, MM will get a pass this season. When you lose almost 1/4 of your opening day roster to IR with only 2/3 of the season gone, including 3 starters on offense, 3 on defense, a couple of your higher draft picks and several of your better ST players, you get a pass if you do even moderately well. He has already accomplished that, and baring a real odd finish should end with a winning record.


How many passes does MM get?

Why? Has he gotten other passes? When and for what?

[rbaloha1]

Why? Has he gotten other passes? When and for what?

First Pass -- Rookie Head Coach.

Second Pass -- Favre Transition.

[MichiganPackerFan]

Yeah well I guess that makes me a nit wit. I'm not even close to ready for a coaching change.

What made Belichick the guy he is now? He bounced around working under great minds like Parcels but eventually became a defensive guru. What makes a Belichick defense special isn't anything schematic. His x's and o's aren't revolutionary but his methods of preparation and ability to design a game plan made him special. Belichick runs a true multiple front defense and practically invented the concept of switching you scheme every week to best stop the opposition. The versatility is amazing.

McCarthy could be the offense version of Belichick. The biggest strength he has always had as a coach is without a doubt his ability to craft an offensive game plan. This was also true of Belichick, his game plan as a defensive coordinator with the Giants against the Bills in superbowl XXV is in the pro football hall of fame. McCarthy is just now entering the part of his career that would coincide with the dominant part of Belichick's. He's off to a good start too. With help from Ted Thompson he has assembled an offense that is just as innovative and vast as Belichick's defense. A true multiples offense that changes as needed to fit personnel and take advantage of anticipated mismatches. This week we strutted into Atlanta and nearly beat them at their own game in their own house. We came out with a ton of spread and managed to move the ball up and down the field with long time consuming drives, without even having a running game. Mike Smith is a pretty great coach in his own right but if not for some poor play on the goal line, the Packers pull out an impressive road win. We lost but the game plan was there. That can be said about nearly all of our losses going back to our loss to the Saints in 2008 where we were throughly beaten, not that there is any shame in being beaten by another brilliant offensive mind like Sean Peyton.

People love to question McCarthy's game-time decisions but almost all of them are justified later and its important that he's a very young head coach and is always learning. There are literally thousands of ways to lose a football game but I'm confident that with McCarthy we'll have a great shot at winning any of them. The guy is as good a young coach as you'll find out there IMO.

Great post!!!


If they finish 10-6 and miss the playoffs, sure. If they collapse down the stretch and finish 7-9 or 8-8, some tough questions need to be asked.

Is it time to talk more about firing the training staff and less about firing the coach who is doing a great job with the skeleton he's got? (seriously though, not sure a training staff change would have changed our IR list in any way)


The Packers are a young team that, under McCarthy's leadership, is clearly ascending into an NFL powerhouse. When that real trend reverses course, the talk about McCarthy getting a pass or getting fired should start. There's been no sign of that this year. With the injuries, the value of McCarthy's leadership has been reaffirmed.

Well stated!

[Patler]

Doesn't matter how they finish from here, MM will get a pass this season. When you lose almost 1/4 of your opening day roster to IR with only 2/3 of the season gone, including 3 starters on offense, 3 on defense, a couple of your higher draft picks and several of your better ST players, you get a pass if you do even moderately well. He has already accomplished that, and baring a real odd finish should end with a winning record.


First Pass -- Rookie Head Coach.

Second Pass -- Favre Transition.

Did he need a pass for going 8-8 as a rookie coach following a 4-12 season? I doubt it very much.

2008 was just weird, right from the end of 2007. Losing in the playoffs like they did, the Favre debacle through out the off-season, then yes, a new QB under more scrutiny than maybe any QB replacement in the NFL for a long, long time, and games lost in the oddest ways. With all that went on, I doubt he needed a "pass" that year either, it was really just his first year of poor team performance.

This year won't be poor performance either. In fact, they might end up looking like over-achievers even if they don't make or do well in the playoffs.

Sure, its a bottom line game, but even so, when the bottom line disappoints you still have to judge if it was the HC or something else that was the primary factor.

I'm OK with MM, but not enthralled with him by any means. I just don't think he is in any jeopardy of losing his job this year, regardless.

[cheesner]

Should the Packers fail to make the playoffs MM should be terminated. Keep the defensive staff.It was Rodgers' fumble that cost us the game.

Is it time to trade him and try with Flynn?

[rbaloha1]

Where is this silly statement inferred.

The MM apologists are comical -- too even place MM in the same conversation is like putting Barry Switzer in the same league as Bill Walsh.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Where is this silly statement inferred.

The MM apologists are comical -- too even place MM in the same conversation is like putting Barry Switzer in the same league as Bill Walsh.

Says the guy who stated Dilfer is equal to Montana.

[Patler]

Where is this silly statement inferred.

The MM apologists are comical -- too even place MM in the same conversation is like putting Barry Switzer in the same league as Bill Walsh.


"apologists"? MM needs to be apologized for?

[rbaloha1]

Says the guy who stated Dilfer is equal to Montana.

That would be me applying your logic with Randy Wright and Dan Marino!

[rbaloha1]

"apologists"? MM needs to be apologized for?

Ineptness in crucial games and situations.

[3irty1]

Please name these games and situations botched by McCarthy.

[Cheesehead Craig]

That would be me applying your logic with Randy Wright and Dan Marino!

Which was the same used with your comparison of MM and Sherman. So are you saying the standard you set is baseless and therefore your argument is bunk?

[rbaloha1]

Which was the same used with your comparison of MM and Sherman. So are you saying the standard you set is baseless and therefore your argument is bunk?


Only making a point not trying to create a paradigm.

[rbaloha1]

Please name these games and situations botched by McCarthy.


All the games lost by the packers this season which is currently preventing the packers from reaching the playoffs. Big ineptness is keeping Slocum as the special teams coach. Another ineptness which is in the process of being corrected is over preaching toughness resulting in too many penalties. Failure to properly challenge. Shermanesque excuses (kudos for not using injuries) for losses. Losing composure in critical situations.

Bottom Line: Lets wait until the season is over. Some tough remaining games -- unfortunately may have to rely on other teams to reach playoffs.

Just like Bates extended Sherman, Capers is extending MM. There I go again! Mahalo.

[MJZiggy]

Preaching toughness to an improperly motivated team is ineptitude? So you'd rather have a team of pansy asses who don't commit penalties but get run over? Besides, I believe when M3 said that he used the word emphasis, did he not?

[Joemailman]

Bates extended Sherman? Packers went 4-12 in 2005 and Sherman was fired. :crazy:

[rbaloha1]

Preaching toughness to an improperly motivated team is ineptitude? So you'd rather have a team of pansy asses who don't commit penalties but get run over? Besides, I believe when M3 said that he used the word emphasis, did he not?

Its called overcoaching. Just like Sherman and MM both early in their careers overpracticed their respective teams resulting in flat teams.

Why are the Packers at a respectable level -- Capers not MM. Imagine if Sanders was still around?

[MJZiggy]

So what you're saying is that Capers uncoaches his head coach's coaching? Capers overrules McCarthy now and decides how much coaching the team gets? I think not. Victory Monday did not start this season. Capers is better than Sanders because Capers knows what he's doing and is a very good defensive coach. McCarthy is a very good offensive coach. Imagine Rodgers without McCarthy's quarterback school. Recall his performance when he arrived. He's been coached. You willing to credit McCarthy with that one?

[Cheesehead Craig]

Only making a point not trying to create a paradigm.

Just using the standards you set. Don't go being a baby when it doesn't work out for you.

[pbmax]

Bates lasted one year with Sherman, the last year of Sherman's original GM contract before his extension would have kicked in. He was then fired. Doesn't look like Bates did much good.

There were few complaints when the Packers offense had to carry Capers defense in matchups versus strong passing games last year. Was McCarthy extending Capers?

Like Sherman, McCarthy has had play calls he would like back (admitting this would make him unlike Sherman) and there have been questionable challenges. But (Sunday's end of 1st half aside) McCarthy has a much better handle on the clock than Sherman, who had to hire another assistant to keep him in line. Coaching for toughness in a young team needs requires no explanation and with a better defensive staff, it has been corrected.

Slocum and the Special Teams are the only unforgivable sins here. You might put the running game here, but seeing the difference Grant makes muddies the picture.

[3irty1]

So McCarthy is responsible for each of these events that potentially lost us every game this year:

James Jones fumble, Jordy Nelson turning it over on a KR against the Bears
Crosby missing a field goal to avoid OT, Jermicheal Finley getting hurt, Refs missing a helmet to helmet on A-Rod against the Skins
Clay Matthews's hamstring against the Dolphins
A-Rods fumble on the goal line against the Falcons

The fact that we've been competitive in every single game this season shows that he's a good coach. Hell the Patriots can't even say that after being rolled by the Browns this season.

[rbaloha1]

Just using the standards you set. Don't go being a baby when it doesn't work out for you.

There are no standards. I shall continue crying. Pau already. Aloha!

[Iron Mike]

Is M3 badass enough to take on Warren Sapp??

http://sportsmed.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/sapp_sherman.jpg

[MichiganPackerFan]

So McCarthy is responsible for each of these events that potentially lost us every game this year:

James Jones fumble, Jordy Nelson turning it over on a KR against the Bears 18 - 5 in penalties in a one sided officiated game!
Crosby missing a field goal to avoid OT, Jermicheal Finley getting hurt, Refs missing a helmet to helmet on A-Rod against the Skins
Clay Matthews's hamstring against the Dolphins horrible call of lining up over the long snapper
A-Rods fumble on the goal line against the Falcons

The fact that we've been competitive in every single game this season shows that he's a good coach. Hell the Patriots can't even say that after being rolled by the Browns this season.

Additions above in Bold

[rbaloha1]

Additions above in Bold

What about the failure to help Bulaga against Wake in the Dolphins game which lead to sacks and rushed passes?

[mmmdk]

....I have a feeling that a lot of Packer fans would even support Mike IV...that's Mike Tice! :lol:

[Fritz]

Supporting a coach does not make someone an "apologist." I support MM, though I do not think he's a perfect coach. He has some weak spots, like the vast majority of people do in their jobs. McCarthy seems to have a tough time consistently making good hires - he hits on some (Robinson, McAdoo, keeping Bennett) and misses on others (K Schottenheimer, maybe Campen, Mike Stock). I don't know much about playcalling, but sometimes his calls disturb me. Still - how do I, or anyone, know that a different play call would've worked better?

On the other hand, he has developed some talent, and his overall record as nearly identical to Sean Payton's. He's also coached an injury-decimated team to a 7-4 record so far this year.

I think he's a good coach who is improving. He seems less rigid than Sherman. Hell, there were threads in this forum after the rash of early-season injuries talking about next year's draft, because it was obvious the Packers were going nowhere this year.

But here they are, 7-4. 13 players on injured reserve - I'm thinking that's probably the second-highest total in the NFL, maybe behind Indy.

One more point - if the Packers inexplicably fired MM right now, as some people here seem to desire, I'd bet my house that the guy would have at least two head coaching offers for next fall (if there is a season next fall). Shermy got none.

[mmmdk]

Supporting a coach does not make someone an "apologist." I support MM, though I do not think he's a perfect coach. He has some weak spots, like the vast majority of people do in their jobs. McCarthy seems to have a tough time consistently making good hires - he hits on some (Robinson, McAdoo, keeping Bennett) and misses on others (K Schottenheimer, maybe Campen, Mike Stock). I don't know much about playcalling, but sometimes his calls disturb me. Still - how do I, or anyone, know that a different play call would've worked better?

On the other hand, he has developed some talent, and his overall record as nearly identical to Sean Payton's. He's also coached an injury-decimated team to a 7-4 record so far this year.

I think he's a good coach who is improving. He seems less rigid than Sherman. Hell, there were threads in this forum after the rash of early-season injuries talking about next year's draft, because it was obvious the Packers were going nowhere this year.

But here they are, 7-4. 13 players on injured reserve - I'm thinking that's probably the second-highest total in the NFL, maybe behind Indy.

One more point - if the Packers inexplicably fired MM right now, as some people here seem to desire, I'd bet my house that the guy would have at least two head coaching offers for next fall (if there is a season next fall). Shermy got none.

I'm cool with it! When this season is done...it could be his best head coaching year and not the "lady fortuna" 2007 season. I'm getting soft. :oops:

[sharpe1027]

All the games lost by the packers this season which is currently preventing the packers from reaching the playoffs. Big ineptness is keeping Slocum as the special teams coach. Another ineptness which is in the process of being corrected is over preaching toughness resulting in too many penalties. Failure to properly challenge. Shermanesque excuses (kudos for not using injuries) for losses. Losing composure in critical situations.

Bottom Line: Lets wait until the season is over. Some tough remaining games -- unfortunately may have to rely on other teams to reach playoffs.

Just like Bates extended Sherman, Capers is extending MM. There I go again! Mahalo.

Capers is a more important part of MM's staff than Slocum, so I'd say MM comes out ahead on that point.

[Smidgeon]

What about the failure to help Bulaga against Wake in the Dolphins game which lead to sacks and rushed passes?

Or how a blatant defensive holding against Wake on a sack was ignored. You know, the time where he stumbled while holding Bulaga's pads, pulled Bulaga down by the pads causing him to lose balance, then sprung up and past Bulaga for a sack...

[3irty1]

One more point - if the Packers inexplicably fired MM right now, as some people here seem to desire, I'd bet my house that the guy would have at least two head coaching offers for next fall (if there is a season next fall). Shermy got none.

This is a great point. Who can honestly say that with all the coaching interviews there are sure to be this off season that McCarthy wouldn't be the top hire?

[MichiganPackerFan]

...
But here they are, 7-4. 13 players on injured reserve - I'm thinking that's probably the second-highest total in the NFL, maybe behind Indy.



Packers 13
Colts 9
http://jsonline.sportsdirectinc.com/football/nfl-injuries.aspx?page=/data/nfl/injury/injuries.html

[pbmax]

Art Shell wasn't a bad head coach the first time around, with a record of 54-38 from 1989 - 1994. Made the AFC Championship game once and was Coach of the Year. He never should have come back for a second go-around with Al Davis.

That is one of the strangest sagas of any coach I remember. Shell was thought of as the Raiders savior early in his tenure, but by the end it seemed the only person who thought he was qualified to be the Raiders coach was Davis, right until he was fired.

I never caught the coverage or stories about why he fell from grace beside the deteriorating record (that might have been enough, but the talk about Shell was that he was incompetent). When he was rehired, he brought in a guy to be his Offensive Coordinator who had been running a bed and breakfast (or dude ranch) since he left the Raiders with Shell the first time. The coverage of Shell at this point mentioned that this guy, Tom Walsh, was out of his league by the end of their first run and now was simply unqualified. But it was never clear to me if Shell simply had a friend he was too loyal to or if he had a problem attracting assistant coaches.

[sheepshead]

This is a great point. Who can honestly say that with all the coaching interviews there are sure to be this off season that McCarthy wouldn't be the top hire?

Who is seriously suggesting firing McCarthy? He's not getting fired for Gods sake. Criticism isnt an all or nothing deal. When you have your annual review and you dont score well in some area do you think you're gonna get fired. Put down the redbulls and lighten up fellas.

[pbmax]

Excellent post 3irty1. But when the crippled defense holds the Falcons to twenty points and we don't win I look at Stubby and I wonder if he's the guy.

It is kind of funny. When we win he's a smart, tough, true football guy from blue collar roots in the streets of Pittsburgh. When we lose he's a stubby shlubbus without enough brains to operate a red beanbag.

And that is why, after a championship, you become a genius. Because your reputation does not vacillate as much after that notch in your belt. Its like criticism repellent.

In both cases, people are overreacting, but in an age of constant media attention and nutty message boards, the only thing that can contain the panic is a championship. Unless you are Barry Switzer or Brian Billick.

[Patler]

That is one of the strangest sagas of any coach I remember. Shell was thought of as the Raiders savior early in his tenure, but by the end it seemed the only person who thought he was qualified to be the Raiders coach was Davis, right until he was fired.

I never caught the coverage or stories about why he fell from grace beside the deteriorating record (that might have been enough, but the talk about Shell was that he was incompetent). When he was rehired, he brought in a guy to be his Offensive Coordinator who had been running a bed and breakfast (or dude ranch) since he left the Raiders with Shell the first time. The coverage of Shell at this point mentioned that this guy, Tom Walsh, was out of his league by the end of their first run and now was simply unqualified. But it was never clear to me if Shell simply had a friend he was too loyal to or if he had a problem attracting assistant coaches.

Ya, I remember that. I thought at the time he was fired the first time that no one would be successful coaching the Raiders as long as Davis insisted on being a quasi-head coach himself. Players didn't really know who was in charge on the field and in the locker room on a day-to-day basis. I think some potential coaches felt the same way. Not a place they wanted to move to.

[pbmax]

Ya, I remember that. I thought at the time he was fired the first time that no one would be successful coaching the Raiders as long as Davis insisted on being a quasi-head coach himself. Players didn't really know who was in charge on the field and in the locker room on a day-to-day basis. I think some potential coaches felt the same way. Not a place they wanted to move to.

Do you remember that Homlgren advised Chucky (Grunden) not to take the Raiders job when he interviewed for it? And this was a warning from his former coach. Grunden was the Eagles OC at the time under Rhodes.

[Fritz]

PB, I remember reading too that Shell had gone soft - he was trying so hard to be a player's coach that he lost the team. I vaguely remember a story of a player sitting on his helmet during practice, guys taking themselves out of practice sessions, that sort of thing.

If I recall correctly, he might've then tried to toughen up suddenly - the classic mistake, which I think Chilly made - and that was the end for him.

[Fritz]

Who is seriously suggesting firing McCarthy? He's not getting fired for Gods sake. Criticism isnt an all or nothing deal. When you have your annual review and you dont score well in some area do you think you're gonna get fired. Put down the redbulls and lighten up fellas.

RBAloha is. Here's his quote from page one: "Should the Packers fail to make the playoffs MM should be terminated. Keep the defensive staff."

[Patler]

Do you remember that Homlgren advised Chucky (Grunden) not to take the Raiders job when he interviewed for it? And this was a warning from his former coach. Grunden was the Eagles OC at the time under Rhodes.

Now that you mention it, yes.

[sheepshead]

RBAloha is. Here's his quote from page one: "Should the Packers fail to make the playoffs MM should be terminated. Keep the defensive staff."

ahhh..no that wont happen. I've been critical of him, but actually I like the job he's doing this year. I dont get down completely on him for things like challenges and snap decisions. (he statistically very good on both I believe). He fixed the penalty problem which gives me warm and fuzzy's all over. Still winning games with a injury list that each guy would draw a 1st or 2nd round pick at least in a trade.

[mmmdk]

RBAloha is. Here's his quote from page one: "Should the Packers fail to make the playoffs MM should be terminated. Keep the defensive staff."

Maybe RBAloha meant something entirely different...terminate could also indicate...*gulp*...to kill? :shock:

Nah, too big a hole to dig! But if I was Stubby; I'd stay out of Hoboken just to be sure. :lol:

[Scott Campbell]

Its apparent McCarthy continually gets overly conservative in crucial situations (2qb runs at the goal line) like Sherman (recall the 04 Eagles playoff game).

Both have a .333 playoff winning percentage.

What do you guys think?


Do you have anything you'd like to say?

[Scott Campbell]

How many passes does MM get?


Please provide an example of when the real trend reverses.




The MM apologists are comical.



You still laughing?

[bobblehead]

Don't bother scott, last year at the midpoint we got into a huge argument about the packers finishing 7-1 with rb taking the stance it was "impossible". As we got hotter and hotter rb disappeared. He hates all things TT and MM, and this success has to be killing him...or else he has come around and seen the error of his ways and understands that he jumps to conclusions way to fast. If that is the case I welcome him back.

[Scott Campbell]

Only making a point not trying to create a paradigm.


Hopefully I've made mine.

[Freak Out]

Scott you really miss Harlan don't you? :)

[Packers4Glory]

Hopefully I've made mine.

I don't see your point.

Its the exact same issue a lot of people HAD w/ MM prior to this run.

[Scott Campbell]

How many passes does MM get?


Please provide an example of when the real trend reverses.


Scott you really miss Harlan don't you? :)


Harlan never hated on the Packers. So it's not nearly the same.












But yeah, I miss Harlan.

[Scott Campbell]

I don't see your point.




The so called "apologists" have long memories.

[Guiness]

Come on Scott, stop taking shots at him. Nothing to be gained from it, no one is going to admit they're wrong, and it's just going to degrade into the name calling this board has only recently (happily) gotten away from. This taunting serves no purpose. I wasn't too happy with MM at the beginning of December either - after the Detroit game, I would guess a lot of people were upset.

Just leave it be, and let's all enjoy the next week.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Personally, I love thread bumps. It makes people accountable for their posts.

[Guiness]

PB, I remember reading too that Shell had gone soft - he was trying so hard to be a player's coach that he lost the team. I vaguely remember a story of a player sitting on his helmet during practice, guys taking themselves out of practice sessions, that sort of thing.

If I recall correctly, he might've then tried to toughen up suddenly - the classic mistake, which I think Chilly made - and that was the end for him.

Trying to make sense of anything that goes on at the Raider's facility, aka Neverland Ranch North, will pretty much drive you nuts.

It's like trying to figure out what my ex-wife is thinking at any given time.

[Guiness]

Personally, I love thread bumps. It makes people accountable for their posts.

A thread bump is fine. Five one line retorts is excessive, no?

[get louder at lambeau]

it's just going to degrade into the name calling this board has only recently (happily) gotten away from.

Hey! I miss the name calling, you Bear-loving pile of Childress!

[Freak Out]

Harlan never hated on the Packers. So it's not nearly the same.












But yeah, I miss Harlan.

It had nothing to do with Packer or M3 hating......you've just seemed to be a little bored lately that's all.

[Packgator]

comparing McCarthy to Belichick is not a compliment to him...at all. I'd give Belichick way more credit than compare him to [so far] an average head coach; compare Belichick to the greats - the Lombardi greats - as he truely deserves. Being potentially a Super Bowl coach is just a coach that hasn't done it yet and probably never will - 'cos few do.

McCarthy vs Belichick first five years as Head Coach...

Regular Season W-L:

McCarthy.....48-32
Belichick......36-44

Playoffs W-L:

McCarthy.....4-2
Belichick......1-1

Super Bowls:

McCarthy.....1
Belichick......0

MM's first five years are much better than BB's. We'll see about the second five years, but so far so good.

[RashanGary]

Personally, I love thread bumps. It makes people accountable for their posts.

I'll never live down my neon Hawkins posts. Now I know, it takes more than a great athlete to be great at football. Now I tend to jump on bandwagons of playres who look solid on the field and have great athleticism. It's working out a little better for me.

[Fritz]

Trying to make sense of anything that goes on at the Raider's facility, aka Neverland Ranch North, will pretty much drive you nuts.

It's like trying to figure out what my ex-wife is thinking at any given time.

That's easy, Guiness: "How can I f*ck over my ex-husband? Hmmm..."

Poor RB. He f*cked up this thread every which way from Sunday.

[Scott Campbell]

A thread bump is fine. Five one line retorts is excessive, no?


I'm just getting started really. The really old stuff seems like you can't access it through the PackerRats search function. Though maybe I'm just not doing it right.

[mraynrand]

and it's just going to degrade into the name calling this board has only recently (happily) gotten away from.

I'm glad the name-calling is over.

[mraynrand]

I'm just getting started really. The really old stuff seems like you can't access it through the PackerRats search function. Though maybe I'm just not doing it right.


yup

[Scott Campbell]

Personally, I love thread bumps. It makes people accountable for their posts.


Exactly how I feel Harv. People shouldn't be afraid to read what they've written. And I probably have as many doozy's back there as anybody here.

[Bretsky]

Personally, I love thread bumps. It makes people accountable for their posts.


Agree sometimes........depends on the intent of the bump.

[Bretsky]

Scott you really miss Harlan don't you? :)


alright...call me stupid.....but what does this mean ? Did Harlan always use to bump threads ? I kind of miss Harlan. He was interesting. Although, I rarely agreed with him.
Or is this a reference to Harlan sometimes stirring pots or being sarcastic ?

[Bretsky]

It had nothing to do with Packer or M3 hating......you've just seemed to be a little bored lately that's all.

Perhaps SC is living the dream. All seven of hit hot wives are multi millionares. So the dude has done it right and has time. DAMMIT...what did I do wrong :)

[Bretsky]

I'll never live down my neon Hawkins posts. Now I know, it takes more than a great athlete to be great at football. Now I tend to jump on bandwagons of playres who look solid on the field and have great athleticism. It's working out a little better for me.

A lot of people bought into Hawkins at first due to homer reading from the JS staff
You just took it a bit further after seeing him look good in person

[HarveyWallbangers]

I'll never live down my neon Hawkins posts. Now I know, it takes more than a great athlete to be great at football. Now I tend to jump on bandwagons of playres who look solid on the field and have great athleticism. It's working out a little better for me.

Everybody has bad takes. I've had plenty of them. I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong though. The people that have a problem with thread bumps are those that have a hard time saying "I was wrong."

[HarveyWallbangers]

I miss Harlan also. I didn't miss some others, but I do miss several of the people that are no longer here. I miss GBM too.

[Scott Campbell]

There's a post from Woody where he guarantees that the Packer will never reach the Superbowl under Thompson. I'd love to bump that one - BUT I CAN'T FIND THE DAMNED THING. :smile:

[Scott Campbell]

I miss Harlan also. I didn't miss some others, but I do miss several of the people that are no longer here. I miss GBM too.


I should clarify that I miss Harlan's football posts.

[swede]

There's a post from Woody where he guarantees that the Packer will never reach the Superbowl under Thompson. I'd love to bump that one - BUT I CAN'T FIND THE DAMNED THING. :smile:

Just cut and paste a Ted Kaczynski manifespost and add a dancing moose. We'll get the idea.

[bobblehead]

Agree sometimes........depends on the intent of the bump.

to feel smarter than everyone else and rub their noses in it....duh!!

[bobblehead]

Everybody has bad takes. I've had plenty of them. I'm not afraid to admit when I'm wrong though. The people that have a problem with thread bumps are those that have a hard time saying "I was wrong."

Actually I tend to bump the posts of the people who were assholes while making their opinion known. I don't care who got egg on their face (for me its Allen Babre), but when you run around being vitriolic in making your point and basically call others stupid or whatever other method you use to be an asshole....well, those are the ones I like to bump. Sometimes I catch people in the crossfire who I don't intend to though (mmk for instance).

[Scott Campbell]

Just cut and paste a Ted Kaczynski manifespost and add a dancing moose. We'll get the idea.


ROFL

[Iron Mike]

I'd bump more of the Bears fans posts, except for they're not around anymore to take their medicine......

http://cbschicago.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/bears-fan1.jpg

[Scott Campbell]

Actually I tend to bump the posts of the people who were assholes while making their opinion known. I don't care who got egg on their face (for me its Allen Babre), but when you run around being vitriolic in making your point and basically call others stupid or whatever other method you use to be an asshole....well, those are the ones I like to bump. Sometimes I catch people in the crossfire who I don't intend to though (mmk for instance).



I just did a search on "apologist", and went from there.

[Freak Out]

Just an honest question B. It seems SC needs a Woody or a Harlan to make his message board life exciting. I rememberer some hilarious back and forth between them. I miss him as well as a few of the missing. OPF where are you? GBM and 007?

[Fritz]

I always liked the blue dog.

[Scott Campbell]

It seems SC needs a Woody .....................


I'm kinda partial to Partial.

[Freak Out]

Partial and Bigguns were a hoot.

[mission]

I'd love to have them both back, really... are they banned or just left?

[mmmdk]

I'm cool with it! When this season is done...it could be his best head coaching year and not the "lady fortuna" 2007 season. I'm getting soft. :oops:

Super cool thread bump; I'm talking nice about Stubby in early december :lol:

[mmmdk]

Great post & I see your point. I get what you say about the "boring" coaches; Belichick and McCarthy are similar there. I just think that McCarthy lacks the intelligence and guts to reach the level of a Belichick.
As for Singletary - no thanks - but you had me going with Rex as I admire a coach like THE TUNA. Rex can win a super bowl or reach a super bowl...ONCE, I believe. Rex isn't a mastermind but you're right - I'd probably prefer Rex to a McCarthy.

Who do I really want? Belichick, but that won't happen. Sean Payton is a Disciple of the great Tuna and I have posts to prove that I endorsed the heck out of Payton. He had that intelligent fire that I seek in a head coach; it was evident during his Dallas tenure. My brother is a die hard Saints fan and he's not high on McCarthy; says McCarthy kinda faded as a playcaller.

Yet here's to McCarthy to prove doubters wrong. I just want that Lombardi trophy back to the Pack.

That ain't a half bad post! :smile:

[Bretsky]

Just an honest question B. It seems SC needs a Woody or a Harlan to make his message board life exciting. I rememberer some hilarious back and forth between them. I miss him as well as a few of the missing. OPF where are you? GBM and 007?


I had actually sent OPF a message a while back and I think he left due to all the rat to rat fighting when it got personal.
I don't think it's a secret why 007, and nearly everybody else who still has a soft spot for Favre, rarely visits
GBM...she's down south and just went on I think. Not sure why she's never here but I Facebook here once in a while

[Bretsky]

I'm kinda partial to Partial.


I kind of miss partial too; the one thing I really liked about him is he always had a strong view and stuck with it. Even when it was off his content made things interesting.
Towards the end it's too bad that at times his brashness disrespected others and then many disrespected him. He felt piled on and once that occured he obviously became a bitter poster and his attitudes were jaded and he took everything to the extreme

[Iron Mike]

I miss the 4and12to12and4 drunken rants.....

[rbaloha1]

Obviously MM exceeded Sherman. Next is Hologrem. Then Lombardi.

[mmmdk]

Obviously MM exceeded Sherman. Next is Hologrem. Then Lombardi.

Very obviously! :razz:

[mmmdk]

I kind of miss partial too; the one thing I really liked about him is he always had a strong view and stuck with it. Even when it was off his content made things interesting.
Towards the end it's too bad that at times his brashness disrespected others and then many disrespected him. He felt piled on and once that occured he obviously became a bitter poster and his attitudes were jaded and he took everything to the extreme

I miss him like I would miss Richard Nixon; maybe Partial ain't a crook but being unfathomable pigheaded falls into the unintelligible train of thought that derails the evolvement of arguments - too religious for me - too rich for me.

[swede]

And his wears a cloth coat.

[Fritz]

"I'm cool with it! When this season is done...it could be his best head coaching year and not the "lady fortuna" 2007 season. I'm getting soft."

You weren't getting soft. You were getting hard, man.

[mmmdk]

"I'm cool with it! When this season is done...it could be his best head coaching year and not the "lady fortuna" 2007 season. I'm getting soft."

You weren't getting soft. You were getting hard, man.

Probably that too!

[Fritz]

Interesting to set this against the backdrop of TT hiring for his head coach a guy who was the offensive coordinator of a team with a losing record...

Dang

[Joemailman]

The trend I was referring to is FAILURE TO MAKE THE PLAYOFFS THIS SEASON NOT LAST SEASON.

TO QUOTE MM, "IN GREEN BAY YOU ARE JUDGED BY CHAMPIONSHIPS."

SHERMAN = 0 CHAMPIONSHIPS

MM = 0 CHAMPIONSHIPS

Trend is looking better.

[denverYooper]

Trend is looking better.

Hey-Oh!