Punting strategy -- kick out of bounds

[Willard]

I have no experience in coaching or game day strategy--but as an "outside the box" thinker in other aspects of life I want to propose a strategy for the Packers this year. Please feel free to agree, refine, rip it to shreds, call me names - as you see fit:

The Packers should perfect the art of punting the ball out of bounds to eliminate returns.

Argument: Ryan has a hell of a leg, and consistently gets great distance (see CFL stats), but he struggles with hangtime. He outkicks the Packers' coverage team which sets up potentially big returns. Why not cater to his strength (distance) and minimize his weakness (hangtime) by intentionally aiming for the sideline? Poor hangtime is only an issue if there is a return. If the ball is kicked out of bounds then hangtime is a moot point. This strategy would surely sacrifice his Gross Average, but his Net Average would equal his Gross Average if there were no returns. Last year in the NFL the best Gross Average was 45.7 yards, but the best Net Average was only 39.3 yards.

Why couldn't this work?
Has anybody ever tried this?

[CaptainKickass]

I employ this strategy all the time when playing Madden and it seems to work well for the "bend but don't break" D.

That does not mean that it will work in the Actual NFL but as of right now, I can see no argument against that as a strategy.

It'll be interesting to see what others have to say.

[K-town]

I think you'd have to be very accurate with kick placement.By mis-judging the angle of the kick, you could easily lose 10-15 yards of field position. Also, this method of punting relies solely on the discretion of the official as to where the ball crossed the imaginary out-of-bounds barrier. And I would like to leave as little as possible to their judgement. We haven't gotten a lot of "home-cookin'" lately.

[Bossman641]

I agree with K-Town. It sounds like a good idea but can you imagine what the results would be if he happened to mishit or shank a punt. You'd be looking at a 20-25 yard punt.

[Willard]

A mishit or a shank is always going to result in a bad punt regardless of what the punter was trying to do. So will there be more shanks if he is "aiming" for the sideline rather than down the middle of the field? That is the question. I don't think this works without a lot of practice, but he has 5 weeks to give it the old college try.

[TPF]

I think it'd be worth a shot.

[Bossman641]

A mishit or a shank is always going to result in a bad punt regardless of what the punter was trying to do. So will there be more shanks if he is "aiming" for the sideline rather than down the middle of the field? That is the question. I don't think this works without a lot of practice, but he has 5 weeks to give it the old college try.

Yea, shanks happen no matter what. But if you're aiming right to kick it out of bounds and you shank it right that's certainly gonna go much shorter than a shank that was aimed down the middle of the field.

[TPF]

Anything but BJ.

[Tony Oday]

I agree with K-Town. It sounds like a good idea but can you imagine what the results would be if he happened to mishit or shank a punt. You'd be looking at a 20-25 yard punt.

So basically a BJ punt ;)

[HarveyWallbangers]

Willard,

Funny thing is I gave this a thought, as well. If he was accurate, then I'd say give it a shot. If he can kick it 60, he should be able to get it up the sideline for a 40 yard average. He would have to be tremendously accurate though, and I'm not sure that he is.

[Tony Oday]

I never understood why punters stopped going for the coffin corner inside the 20 and instead are looking for the 'football' bounce back in play.

[Badgepack]

Good observation on the old "coffin corner" kicks, nobody does that anymore. I think the speed of players today allows them to get under the high punts and down it deep. The coffin corner kicks can be marked anywhere the refs judge it to go out of bounds.

Anyhow, we can't punt out of bounds, that would be lame. Play the game, punt it, and go tackle the SOB's

[ahaha]

The problem with this strategy is the high level of accuracy it requires. He has to kick it consistently about 50 yards in the air to make it worth it (If you do the math-Pythagorus). That would make it around 38-39 yds of field position.
If you're kicking straight ahead, you can afford to hit it left or right a few yards. In the sideline strategy that will kill you. A little to one side, and the returner is able to field a shorter punt. A little to the other side, and it becomes a 25 - 30 yard punt.
If the punter has a bad shank, it's a lot worse with this strategy.
However, I do like the idea of using this when you're trying to pin a team deep. Teams used to do this effectively.

[woodbuck27]

I have no experience in coaching or game day strategy--but as an "outside the box" thinker in other aspects of life I want to propose a strategy for the Packers this year. Please feel free to agree, refine, rip it to shreds, call me names - as you see fit:

The Packers should perfect the art of punting the ball out of bounds to eliminate returns.

Argument: Ryan has a hell of a leg, and consistently gets great distance (see CFL stats), but he struggles with hangtime. He outkicks the Packers' coverage team which sets up potentially big returns. Why not cater to his strength (distance) and minimize his weakness (hangtime) by intentionally aiming for the sideline? Poor hangtime is only an issue if there is a return. If the ball is kicked out of bounds then hangtime is a moot point. This strategy would surely sacrifice his Gross Average, but his Net Average would equal his Gross Average if there were no returns. Last year in the NFL the best Gross Average was 45.7 yards, but the best Net Average was only 39.3 yards.

Why couldn't this work?
Has anybody ever tried this?

That style of punting is certainly employed in the CFL. The thing is too - the CFL allows one point for a punt that ends up in the end zone and isn't returned into the field beyond the goal line by the player receiving the punt.

Read this please:

http://www.canoe.ca/Slam030620/cfl_cal1-sun.html

GO PACKERS !

[Lare]

I also have wondered why NFL teams went away from directional punting towards the corner like they did years ago. Is it because punters aren't as good as punter years ago?

IMO, it's more because Special Teams coaches spend so much more time worrying about get-off times and hang-times nowadays that they forget about the intent of the play and end up ruining half the punters that come up from the college ranks (see BJ Sander). And it's all a waste anyway because 98% of the time opposing teams don't make any real effort at blocking the punt.

Ryan averaged about 10-yards better than any punter in the NFL last year. We'll see how much better he does with all the "expert" coaching he gets this year.

[Willard]

If its good enough for the Calgary Stampeders than the Pack should at least try it out! Thanks for the link, Woodbuck.

[Row 67]

I totally agree with you. I was thinking the same thing when I read an article about Ryan that said he had a rocket for a leg, but his "hang time" needs work because he can out-kick the coverage. I thought - cripes, if he can kick it 65 yards, have him kick it out of bounds. If it goes out of bounds after 40 yards, who cares?

[CaliforniaCheez]

So why is a 65 yard punt with a 25 yard return worse than a 43 yard punt with a 5 yard return?

[havanother]

I wish Nfl punter's could move a little red arrow to the corner of the enzone and blast a ball two inches in front of the pylons, but I also wish I could spin my golf ball 15 yards straight right using the R2 button on my wedge. It's all about risk assesment. Do you kick it straight down the middle and let your guys down it? or do you go for the corner and risk a shank that puts the opposition on their own 40? If your guys don't down it the worst that happens is they're on their own 20. Their are very few scenario's in real football that the coffin corner makes sense. If you can punt the ball 65 yards and it doesn't go out of bounds the returner now has the entire width of the field to run. The only time a coffin corner makes sense is on a fourth and over five from the opposition's 40 to the 50 yard line. You can't go for the first down, it's out of range for most FG kickers and you can still get enough hang time to get coverage on a possible return.

[woodbuck27]

I also have wondered why NFL teams went away from directional punting towards the corner like they did years ago. Is it because punters aren't as good as punter years ago?

IMO, it's more because Special Teams coaches spend so much more time worrying about get-off times and hang-times nowadays that they forget about the intent of the play and end up ruining half the punters that come up from the college ranks (see BJ Sander). And it's all a waste anyway because 98% of the time opposing teams don't make any real effort at blocking the punt.

Ryan averaged about 10-yards better than any punter in the NFL last year. We'll see how much better he does with all the "expert" coaching he gets this year.

As the article (see link my last post) informed us. Coaching a punter is essential, but I agree - don't destroy his natural gift, rather use it strategically.

Jon Ryan just has more than most punters will ever give you. The Packers only need to coach him within reason, not expect him to be a bionic man. Jon Ryan will deliver on what we need of him as a punter. Many here have some doubts that a Canadian from a small City - small College - CFL team (The Winnepeg Blue Bombers) could be all that he's. . . PROVEN HE IS in HIS PAST.

Jon Ryan's certainly, a very gifted - talented - hard working -accomplished at his young age - punter. He's an outstanding young man. Be happy for him when he wins the job, then pull for him for "the Packer" I believe he will be. :mrgreen:

GO PACKERS ! HOLD THE FAITH !!

[HarveyWallbangers]

So why is a 65 yard punt with a 25 yard return worse than a 43 yard punt with a 5 yard return?

I think it has more to do with that 25 yard return is more likely to be a 80 yard TD return--than the 5 yard return will be returned for a TD. More than anything else, coaches just don't want the special teams to screw up (e.g. fumble on returns or give up long returns on coverage).

[Partial]

So why is a 65 yard punt with a 25 yard return worse than a 43 yard punt with a 5 yard return?

Momentum from the returner = harder to tackle