Brandon Underwood - falling off the depth chart

[Patler]

Interesting article on Underwoood:

http://packersnews.greenbaypressgazette.com/article/20101203/PKR01/101203115/Underwood-moves-to-safety-regrets-post-camp-production

- Has been moved to safety.
- Fell behind Lee, even when healthy.
- Most seriously, just like last year, Whitt seems to question Underwood's commitment.

He doesn't seem to have the ST value that Bush does, so will have to pick up his performances at CB or safety to hold on. Next camp will be crucial for him because guys like Josh Gordy, Anthony Levine, Josh Bell and anyone new will be pushing for spots at both positions.

[vince]

Competition to make this team is going to be absolutely brutal next year.

[Fritz]

Time to wake up, dude! High praise from Whitt for the new CB, Josh "Berry" Gordy.

[3irty1]

At this time last year it seems they were raving about his progress and touting him as a major find. However, it is obvious that Pat Lee has taken a step forward this year and has been playing well. The secondary is getting awfully competitive.

[Patler]

Competition to make this team is going to be absolutely brutal next year.

O-line, linebacker and D-line especially.

I heard an interview last night with AJ Hawk. Very hard not to like the guy when you listen to him. He was asked about not playing the first game and being on the field continuously now, if mentally it was hard to accept. He said it never bothered him, because that's football and the way it is in the NFL. But the reason I bring this up now is that he specifically mentioned CJ Wilson, and how much he has improved in response to having to play.

Next year's D-line candidates - Raji, Pickett, Neal, Wilson, Green, Wynn, maybe Jenkins, maybe Jolly, maybe Harrell and anyone new. All for 6 roster spots. Harrell and Wynn are most like gone for sure.

Linebacker - all four backups on the roster now weren't even on the original roster, so you have 12 LBs right now with IR.

Bring the injured guys back at these positions and maybe a draft pick here and there, and some of the D-line and LBs will be cut before camp even starts in all likelihood just to get down to roster size for camp.

[Patler]

At this time last year it seems they were raving about his progress and touting him as a major find. However, it is obvious that Pat Lee has taken a step forward this year and has been playing well. The secondary is getting awfully competitive.

Underwood? Just the opposite. Whitt was interviewed last December and questioned Underwood's attitude and commitment. I commented at the time that it seemed unusually harsh commentary about a rookie.

[Fritz]

This leads me to wonder if TT will continue to evolve his drafting style. Will he trade up more now, maybe twice? Where can you see six rookies (the number of picks GB will probably have, not counting a possible compensatory pick for Kampman) making this team next year? What this teams seems to be able to afford now is the luxury of trading up if there's a guy sitting higher than they are positioned. I'd say a right outside linebacker might be the kind of position that, if there's a guy they really like, they'd trade up for.

And maybe even wide receiver.

[Patler]

This leads me to wonder if TT will continue to evolve his drafting style. Will he trade up more now, maybe twice? Where can you see six rookies (the number of picks GB will probably have, not counting a possible compensatory pick for Kampman) making this team next year? What this teams seems to be able to afford now is the luxury of trading up if there's a guy sitting higher than they are positioned. I'd say a right outside linebacker might be the kind of position that, if there's a guy they really like, they'd trade up for.

And maybe even wide receiver.

Actually, TT himself made that comment last year, saying that they do not need as many new players as they did in previous years, so trading down was a lot less likely, and that the occasional trade up makes more sense. He has now traded up three years in a row.

[Fritz]

Good point - but I guess I'm wondering if the gurus in the organization ever sit down and talk about how many guys they can realistically bring in from a draft class and make the team. Not just trading up once, but I wonder if they say things like "Well, let's trade up twice if we see the opportunity, because we really can't afford to keep as many guys based on long term maybe-kinda potential any more."

Another point - what surprises me is the way the organization seems to be able to find absolute gold in FA signees and others' castoffs. Tramon Williams, looks like Sam Shields, and now, MM really, really talking up Nick McDonald. And Joe Whitt being effusive in his praise of Josh "Berry" Gordy. My sense in reading about these young bucks is that the coaches are heaping more praise on them than they ever did on the likes of Underwood and Will Whittaker and the like, early on in TT's tenure.

How do they do it? One man's garbage is another man's treasure, but how do they do it?

[swede]

How do they do it? One man's garbage is another man's treasure, but how do they do it?

Smarter monkey.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z236/dsteenswede44/monkey-1.jpg

[RashanGary]

I'm not surprised. I don't have a huge bank of knowledge, but I've seen Blackmon, Tramon, Bush, Dendy, Hawkins and the like come through. In the last 4 or 5 years only one really good player came from the group. It's not to say Tramon Williams has never been beat, but he came out o the gates playing well. Underwood looked good in shorts (like Hawkins), but has never played football well. Tramon played well from the get-go. I remember a day everyone loved Blackmon because of perceived athleticism. MM says Tramon is the most athletic player on the team. It was all false impression. Regardless, everyone hyped Blackmon even though he was never around the ball. Tramon was around the ball from the first game he played. He had pass breakups right from the start. Shields is like that. Underwood is not. Lee is not. Lee hasn't done anything this year.

As far as young corners on this roster go, put all of my money on Shields. He's the only one around the ball, the only one worth a damn.

[pbmax]

I'm not surprised. I don't have a huge bank of knowledge, but I've seen Blackmon, Tramon, Bush, Dendy, Hawkins and the like come through. In the last 4 or 5 years only one really good player came from the group. It's not to say Tramon Williams has never been beat, but he came out o the gates playing well. Underwood looked good in shorts (like Hawkins), but has never played football well. Tramon played well from the get-go. I remember a day everyone loved Blackmon because of perceived athleticism. MM says Tramon is the most athletic player on the team. It was all false impression. Regardless, everyone hyped Blackmon even though he was never around the ball. Tramon was around the ball from the first game he played. He had pass breakups right from the start. Shields is like that. Underwood is not. Lee is not. Lee hasn't done anything this year.

As far as young corners on this roster go, put all of my money on Shields. He's the only one around the ball, the only one worth a damn.

I think Blackmon is a slightly different story. He won the nickel job in camp and in preseason. He didn't get to play due to his work in shorts. But after a good start his play never progressed. Even after another offseason and camp.

[Fred's Slacks]

Good point - but I guess I'm wondering if the gurus in the organization ever sit down and talk about how many guys they can realistically bring in from a draft class and make the team. Not just trading up once, but I wonder if they say things like "Well, let's trade up twice if we see the opportunity, because we really can't afford to keep as many guys based on long term maybe-kinda potential any more."

Another point - what surprises me is the way the organization seems to be able to find absolute gold in FA signees and others' castoffs. Tramon Williams, looks like Sam Shields, and now, MM really, really talking up Nick McDonald. And Joe Whitt being effusive in his praise of Josh "Berry" Gordy. My sense in reading about these young bucks is that the coaches are heaping more praise on them than they ever did on the likes of Underwood and Will Whittaker and the like, early on in TT's tenure.

How do they do it? One man's garbage is another man's treasure, but how do they do it?

I think part of it is simply the fact that we put an emphasis on developing talent over trying to bring in proven veterans. We'll give talent more time to develop before we look for a replacement. That can help find more diamonds in the rough.

Shields is a rarity though. The guy is tremendously talented, yet wasn't super productive in college. He came in with the perfect humble yet confident attitude and that has allowed him to grow quickly and his ability to shine through.

[vince]

Williams has become a pretty good tackler for a cover guy his size/build. That's the biggest surprise to me about him. He's become more physical than I ever expected him to be. Hopefully he doesn't get hurt.

I was never impressed with Underwood. He has never seemed to have the instincts you need that Shields clearly has and it sounds like Gordy may have. I also like to hear that Gordy likes to stick his head in there and hit some people.

[Fritz]

Williams has become a pretty good tackler for a cover guy his size/build. That's the biggest surprise to me about him. He's become more physical than I ever expected him to be. Hopefully he doesn't get hurt.

I was never impressed with Underwood. He has never seemed to have the instincts you need that Shields clearly has and it sounds like Gordy may have. I also like to hear that Gordy likes to stick his head in there and hit some people.

He also knows how to write a hit song. What else could you want?

[Patler]

I think Blackmon is a slightly different story. He won the nickel job in camp and in preseason. He didn't get to play due to his work in shorts. But after a good start his play never progressed. Even after another offseason and camp.

He could never stay healthy enough to practice or play regularly. That probably hurt him a lot, too. Amazing for a guy that never missed a game in college even though he was a three year starter and returned kicks for four years, and as a senior played some on defense even though he was a starting at WR. Got to the pros and can't stay healthy.

[pbmax]

I think part of it is simply the fact that we put an emphasis on developing talent over trying to bring in proven veterans. We'll give talent more time to develop before we look for a replacement. That can help find more diamonds in the rough.

Shields is a rarity though. The guy is tremendously talented, yet wasn't super productive in college. He came in with the perfect humble yet confident attitude and that has allowed him to grow quickly and his ability to shine through.

I think having good starters also helps. Because that underdeveloped player can sit, play on special teams and practice without having the pressure to perform at Game time. It allows their strength and technique to develop if they are not forced into bad habits from the pressure of playing in games. In some ways, this player is at an advantage on a good team versus the high draft pick who would need to wait (QBs excepted).

[Fritz]

PB, I think your point fits Rodgers perfectly. I maintain that part of the reason that he's done so well is because he was allowed to develop and watch and not have to start right away. I think more franchises should bite the bullet and do that.

[rbaloha1]

BU is physically talented with long arms. With newly found maturity and competition expect BU to be part of the rotation next season.

Pat Lee is another story.

[Joemailman]

Where's he going to find that newly found maturity? Gift-wrapped under the Christmas tree?

[wootah]

Where's he going to find that newly found maturity?

He tried to buy some maturity of 30 & 31 year old at Matthews' charity golf event a while ago. Can't say the guy isn't trying...

[pbmax]

Where's he going to find that newly found maturity? Gift-wrapped under the Christmas tree?

Wasn't Maturity the name of the girl he took back to the condo from Chubby's?

[rbaloha1]

Where's he going to find that newly found maturity? Gift-wrapped under the Christmas tree?

Getting busted and forced to explain to your wife what happened.

[Joemailman]

Maybe. Hope so. Immaturity seems to be a pattern with him though. Not sure he can break it.

[vince]

Mature or not, he's not very reliable as a CB.