Postulated: The Packers 8-6 Record Is A Good Achivement This Season

[pbmax]

Where do you stand? 14 players on injured reserve, including six starters (Grant, Burnett, Barnett, Finley, Tauscher, Jones) and six rotation guys or Special Team starters (Harrell, Neal, Smith, Martin, Chillar*, Poppinga*) and two who definitely had a chance to play given their place on the depth chart (Bell, Havner). Plus the in season injuries that cost games from Jenkins, Pickett, Matthews, Bigby, Collins, Zombo, Underwood, Lee, Colledge, Rodgers, Hall and Driver.
*Have also started games.

Is 8-6 remarkable given the injuries and should the team be applauded and kept, mostly, on the same course?

Or is 8-6 indicative of too many close losses due to coaching (and possibly personnel) mistakes that in other hands would yield a 10-4 or better record?
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By the way, please note how much better the O line played with Colledge back. I'm just saying.... :D

[Bossman641]

Can I answer in 2 weeks?

If the team ends with 2 losses I would change my vote, but as of today I see no reason to change course. Havin even half the injured players back would have changed the outcome of at least 2 games.

[Freak Out]

Pretty amazing when you consider just how many players the team lost....let alone high profile guys..... Just tells you how good the remaining group really is. At least a part of it. :)

[Charles Woodson]

What hurts the most is all the last second losses. If we had been blowin out in some of our losses instead of going into overtime i might feel better, but its just hard to be content with 8-6 when the first 4 of our losses were by 3 points and our last two were winnable.

[Gunakor]

Look at it this way. Our losses have all been very close losses. Remove the injuries that have crippled our season and where are we specific to those close losses? Having Grant and Finley back in the fold could easily turn a 4 point loss @ Detroit into a 21 point win. Having Grant, Finley AND Rodgers against New England means we stomp their ass into the ground, staring over at Brady and laughing ourselves into a coma.

The close losses wouldn't even have been close games to begin with had lady luck shined on us in the injury department. Crosby doesn't have a chance to miss any game winning FG's. Flynn doesn't have an opportunity to blow it in the 2 minute offense. He gets to kneel on the ball instead.

The Packers have a dismal record in close games. Yet, they have a pretty good record in games that are not close. Think about it, how often do the Packers LOSE by 2 TD's or more? The teams that get blown out, THOSE are the teams that should really be worried about their football team. We have, what, 14 players on IR and yet are still in control of our own playoff destiny. We've proven that, regardless of injury, this team can play with anybody. Nothing to be ashamed of in that.

I'd give this season a positive grade. Even if it doesn't have a storybook ending.

[packrulz]

I voted agree, but the offensive line has been a big disappointment, even with Grant healthy, I doubt he could've gotten 1,000 yds rushing, GB needs a running game in Dec/Jan. I don't know how far the Pack can go in the playoffs if the run blocking doesn't get better.

[pbmax]

Boy, the Ted and/or Mike critics must be sleeping in this morning (or plowing out). I thought this result would be the reverse when I checked in this morning.

I will say this, I voted agree, but I am not so sure the close losses are due to the missing players. Perhaps this year there would have been fewer, but we have seen similar scenarios in the past, regardless of personnel. I don't think it is strictly playcalling or McCarthy having a "deer in the headlights" look, but a result of a strategy that make sense during the offseason and practice, but leaves too many opportunities on the field for the opponents. Settling for long FGs or having Defensive struggles versus the pass in 2008 and 2009 (Pit, Arz) and not being able to take the lead, hold the lead and/or drive out the clock.

In fact, I wonder if close game struggles tell us more about his defense than his offense.

[AtlPackFan]

I said 9-7 at the beginning of the season before all the injuries surfaced so I'm pleasantly surprised by their record.

[Fritz]

I think the answer is "both." I do think the injuries have played a major part in this record. Not only for the obvious reasons - having Grant and Finley back would've helped in short yardage situations - but because you end up playing street guys on special teams.

On the other hand, this pattern of crappy ST play has extended now into Slocum's second season as ST coach. And this pattern of shitty run blocking has extended into I don't know how many seasons.

So I think it's both. It's a positive to have this record with this many injuries. But I also feel that Slocum and Campen's ineptitude has been magnified by the injuries.

[gbgary]

if, before any games were played, you'd have rattled off that list of names and said we'd have a shot at 10-6 and a wild card...i'd have said you were f'n crazy! now seeing how the season has actually played out i'd say we'll be lucky to get to 10-6, but not because of the list so much. bad luck, a few untimely mistakes, and very questionable coaching decisions kept us from having an even better record and being in a better playoff position.

[sharpe1027]

You could add Al Harris and J. Jolly to that group.

[bobblehead]

I think one injury is the difference of 8-6 and 10-4 or better. Jemichael Finley. when we lost him we were unreliable at TE and we haven't recovered that. Nobody has stepped up at TE as opposed to almost every other injured position. To top it off, replacing finley is impossible, even if someone stepped up it still would have been a significan drop off.

[sharpe1027]

I think one injury is the difference of 8-6 and 10-4 or better. Jemichael Finley. when we lost him we were unreliable at TE and we haven't recovered that. Nobody has stepped up at TE as opposed to almost every other injured position. To top it off, replacing finley is impossible, even if someone stepped up it still would have been a significan drop off.

I think the combination of Grant AND Finley is a real killer. Sometime back, other posters explained that the two best ways to attack a soft 2-deep zone were 1) running the ball and 2) a TE that is a threat down the field. We lost both.

[mmmdk]

This thread has, at least, shown "great effort".

Grant - has been hard to replace. Truely missed.
Burnett - a rookie!? C'mon...Peprah made me forget Burnett.
Barnett - solid player but I do not miss those bad angles /missed tackles. Bishop's better!
Finley - the guy is missed; BIG TIME!!!
Tauscher - OL is in shambles, period, plus Tausch was losing a step anyway. Trouble is that OL, again, was being overrated by TT/coaches.
Jones - solid starter. Fact is: we don't even know if we really miss him. What has he [really] done?

The real trouble with lost starters is on offense; especially the underdeveloped OL. Our OL is mediocre at best.

Backups Neal & Harrell are missed due to Jolly suspension. Chillar is a good backup and hence missed. The rest are insignificant.

Players miss games; that's part of the game. Live with it or become apologists.

I see OL as the main culprit and injuries secondary; 'cos especially the defenders that were placed on IR, have replaced with outstanding play by Peprah & Bishop. To me they've been better than Burnett & Barnett duo; that were questionable anyhow.

And don't get me started with coaching...jeez! I'll give the coaches the"great effort" tag - at best.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Grant and Finley are really missed. Losing Rodgers for 1 1/2 games may have cost us 1-2 victories. Losing Matthews for 1 1/4 games may have cost us 1-2 victories. Those were big losses. Losing Ryan Pickett and Cullen Jenkins were big. Driver being ineffective for 4-5 games hurt, but we have depth there. Losing Mike Neal was big also--especially with the injuries to Pickett and Jenkins.

[vince]

Grant and Finley are really missed. Losing Rodgers for 1 1/2 games may have cost us 1-2 victories. Losing Matthews for 1 1/4 games may have cost us 1-2 victories. Those were big losses. Losing Ryan Pickett and Cullen Jenkins were big. Driver being ineffective for 4-5 games hurt, but we have depth there. Losing Mike Neal was big also--especially with the injuries to Pickett and Jenkins.
This. The offense has obviously been a bit more inconsistent than in previous years, and it took a bit for them to adjust to the absence of Finley, but it's still been relatively good overall - better than I would expect with the injuries they've suffered - particularly to Finley and Rodgers IMO. I think the problems in the running game are attributable as much to the line as to the loss of Grant, although it obviously hurts to lose your workhorse.

I stole this from Louder on his Packersnews.net board. It shows how McCarthy's terrible playcalling has held back his offenses...


Yr. Yds. Pts.
2006 9th 22nd
2007 2nd 4th
2008 8th 5th
2009 6th 3rd
2010 11th 10th

[PaCkFan_n_MD]

What harvey said. Matthews and Rodgers hurt a lot. Jolly, Neal, Finley, and Grant are the only those ones that really hurt. Problem is they have been out almost the whole year. Burnett, Barnett, Jones, and Tuascher really made no difference.

[Bretsky]

NFC talent levels are very watered down

Cut the excuses; just make the dam playoffs or I'll be disappointed

[pbmax]

Horse feathers. The AFC stinks out loud but no national media have noticed yet. Tide has turned back.

[bobblehead]

When the season started people bitched that TT hadn't addressed the OLB position. Then we lost 2 of them to injury....now 3. Its amazing to me that Dom has kept our D competitive much less really good.

[sharpe1027]

What harvey said. Matthews and Rodgers hurt a lot. Jolly, Neal, Finley, and Grant are the only those ones that really hurt. Problem is they have been out almost the whole year. Burnett, Barnett, Jones, and Tuascher really made no difference.

They've been replaced, but IMO to say that they made no difference isn't looking at the big picture. Even if your backup is nearly as good as your starter, moving them up hits your special teams pretty hard. You also end up changing your schemes to suit different players, having less packages available, less rotations and overall being less flexible. For example, last year Dom used all sorts of different schemes utilizing all the LBers and DL (not just starters) in unconventional ways that suited their skills. They don't have that option this year.

[Fritz]

sharpe's making a good point. And I also think it's disingenuous to discount all the other injuries. After all, Burnett was the preferred starter at safety, as was Barnett at linebacker. And don't forget that the packers' difficulty at times stopping the run might have to do with a lack of preferred defensive linemen. What if Jenkins had played the Detroit game? What if Mike Neal was in the rotation? What if Jones was playing right outside linebacker instead of a replacement for a replacement?

[Bossman641]

When the season started people bitched that TT hadn't addressed the OLB position. Then we lost 2 of them to injury....now 3. Its amazing to me that Dom has kept our D competitive much less really good.

X1

Going into the year the big questions were whether the pass D would hold up and if they could manufacture enough pressure.

To me, those questions have been answered with a yes. Just a shame the defense was never really healthy together so we could see what they could do.

[Fritz]

Funny how in each of the last two years, after the preseason the questions were all about the defense...but it turns out the offense is the unit that has more problems.

I'm not counting special teams. It's clear that is the red-headed step-child of this team.

[Bretsky]

When the season started people bitched that TT hadn't addressed the OLB position. Then we lost 2 of them to injury....now 3. Its amazing to me that Dom has kept our D competitive much less really good.


I'm still not sure any of those four or five OLB were any good..........lol

Dominator has been great though

[denverYooper]

I'm still not sure any of those four or five OLB were any good..........lol

Dominator has been great though

2010 is just a training camp for a 5 year superbowl run.

[mmmdk]

We're entering the "Great effort" era of Green Bay Packers history; lots of boring chapters of how injuries got the better of us and how McCarthy came so close but no cigar. Isn't that ironic?

Thank goodness for Packers thick history 'cos what's being inked now ain't worth reading.

[Patler]

8-6 is a disappointment because many of the "6" were games that the Packers had golden opportunities to win against teams that they should have beaten even with the injury situation that existed. I do not include the NE game in that group. That was an uphill battle all the way. Some of those losses came before the injury situation got out of hand, and/or resulted from questionable strategies at game end as well as gaffe's by veterans (Chiller, Collins, Peprah) on ST. Others were lost when vets didn't come through when needed, or when veterans showed game-long ineptitude (unbelievable penalty numbers in some games like the Bears game, the game-long O-line performance against the Lions). Injuries were not the cause in many of the losses. You can argue that injuries depleted STs, but many of the ST mistakes were by experienced veterans, not the last minute inexperienced replacements.

[RashanGary]

8-6 is a disappointment because many of the "6" were games that the Packers had golden opportunities to win against teams that they should have beaten even with the injury situation that existed. I do not include the NE game in that group. That was an uphill battle all the way. Some of those losses came before the injury situation got out of hand, and/or resulted from questionable strategies at game end as well as gaffe's by veterans (Chiller, Collins, Peprah) on ST. Others were lost when vets didn't come through when needed, or when veterans showed game-long ineptitude (unbelievable penalty numbers in some games like the Bears game, the game-long O-line performance against the Lions). Injuries were not the cause in many of the losses. You can argue that injuries depleted STs, but many of the ST mistakes were by experienced veterans, not the last minute inexperienced replacements.


I agree. We lost 3 of the first six games and that was before we were really hammered by injuries. The injuries now are a bit of an excuse for why I don't think we're a real SB competitor, but not early in teh season.


ST's are still bad

And it took us 6 games this year instead of 8 last year to simplify the offense and really play well. Hopefully next year it takes him less than 4 games. Capers always talks about keeping it simple. MM talks about being multifaceted, flexible and diverse. . . . I like Capers simple approach better because when MM is forced to go simple his offenses dominate too.

[denverYooper]

8-6 is a disappointment because many of the "6" were games that the Packers had golden opportunities to win against teams that they should have beaten even with the injury situation that existed. I do not include the NE game in that group. That was an uphill battle all the way. Some of those losses came before the injury situation got out of hand, and/or resulted from questionable strategies at game end as well as gaffe's by veterans (Chiller, Collins, Peprah) on ST. Others were lost when vets didn't come through when needed, or when veterans showed game-long ineptitude (unbelievable penalty numbers in some games like the Bears game, the game-long O-line performance against the Lions). Injuries were not the cause in many of the losses. You can argue that injuries depleted STs, but many of the ST mistakes were by experienced veterans, not the last minute inexperienced replacements.

That's it right there. Personnel on the return by Connoly were:
Crosby, Hall, Kuhn, Bigby, Peprah, Bush, Francois, Underwood, Briggs, Johnson, Swain.

Now, initially I thought that Johnson and Briggs ran into each other to spring Connoly's return. But going back and looking at the highlight (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-cant-miss-plays/09000d5d81d0c8cd/Connolly-has-longest-return-ever-for-lineman)(which includes footage from behind the kicking team, Bush vacated his lane right into a block and that's exactly where Connoly went to start his run. After that, Peprah caught him around the 40 but tried to force the fumble instead of tackling. Those are 2 core guys making huge mistakes that resulted in ~30 yards apiece.

Also, Korey Hall, who is usually very good, overrunns the kick by quite a bit, so he's also out of the picture on the side of the field that Connoly cut back to. It's almost as if he didn't know where the kick was going. John Kuhn gets turned around too but I think he was where he was supposed to be and he comes back to make the tackle in the end.

Quinn Johnson actually got blocked in the back and shoved into Briggs after Bush had already screwed up. If Johnson doesn't get blocked in the back, there's a good chance he gets Connoly. Although, with this unit this year, you just don't know. I don't even care about the block in the back because the play should have been over before that.

[Scott Campbell]

At 8-6 the grade is incomplete.

[vince]

I agree. We lost 3 of the first six games and that was before we were really hammered by injuries. The injuries now are a bit of an excuse for why I don't think we're a real SB competitor, but not early in teh season.


ST's are still bad

And it took us 6 games this year instead of 8 last year to simplify the offense and really play well. Hopefully next year it takes him less than 4 games. Capers always talks about keeping it simple. MM talks about being multifaceted, flexible and diverse. . . . I like Capers simple approach better because when MM is forced to go simple his offenses dominate too.

Significant Injuries Week 1 or Before

Ryan Grant – played less than ½ of 1 game before serious ankle injury ended his season

Justin Harrell – played 2 plays of 1 game before ACL tear ended his season

Ryan Pickett – injured his hamstring in week 1, which has bothered him all year.

Chad Clifton - suffered from knee aggravation and swelling since before week 1

Josh Bell – played 0 games before ACL tear ended his season

Cullen Jenkins – has played with a calf strain all season and broke his hand in the first week of the season.

Clay Matthews – played with a hamstring injury since before the first game

Mike Neal – had a side strain before week 1 and has barely played this year before his season ended with a shoulder injury

Brady Poppinga has had a strained knee since before week 1, which eventually gave out and ended his season

Charles Woodson has been playing with a toe injury since before week 1

Atari Bigby – high ankle sprain kept him out until week 10

Al Harris – never recovered from multiple ligament injuries to the knee

James Starks – hamstring injury kept him out until week 10

Brad Jones – suffered from shoulder injury before week 1 and played with a harness but never did really get on track before his season ended

Significant Injuries Beginning after 3rd game

Nick Barnett – played 3 games before hurting his wrist ending his season

Morgan Burnett – played 3 games before knee injury ended his season

Brandon Chillar – suffered his shoulder injury in week 3 and was out or ineffective until he ended his season on IR

Mark Tauscher – suffered shoulder injury from which he never recovered before his season was ended.

Significant Injuries Beginning After 4th Game

Jermichael Finley’s injury came in week 5

Donald Driver – strained his quad

Derrick Martin – suffered season ending knee injury in week 5

Aaron Rodgers – suffered a concussion

Clay Matthews - reaggravated his hammie

Significant Injuries After Week 6

Rodgers – 2nd concussion
Matthews - shin problem

I probably missed a few in there and not just the bumps and bruises... Donald Lee was hurt, Quarless has been hurt, Corey Hall missed some games, Colledge with a knee injury, Collins with a knee and ribs, Peprah, Shields missed at least a game to injury, Bigby again, Zombo, ... In any event, the injuries definitely started early and continued to build-up early and often.

Despite that, the Packers started 3-1 this season before the injuries in Week 5 to Finley, Matthews and Rodgers against the Redskins. This was when fans everwhere predicted a coming apocolypse, which after the Dolphins loss, never came.

Credit the non-falloff to what you will (before Rodgers' 2nd concussion), but it certainly wasn't due to McCarthy's ineptitude.

[Bossman641]

Great post Vince.

Another point of interest. For as well as the defense has played, they haven't forced turnovers at anywhere near the level they did last year. So far, the defense has 24 takeaways. Last year, they ended the regular season with 40 takeaways.

As a result of fewer takeaways and bad ST play (due to Slocum or injuries), the offense is consistently asked to drive a long field. Missing your starting RB and game-breaking TE, that is a lot to ask.

[bobblehead]

We're entering the "Great effort" era of Green Bay Packers history; lots of boring chapters of how injuries got the better of us and how McCarthy came so close but no cigar. Isn't that ironic?

Thank goodness for Packers thick history 'cos what's being inked now ain't worth reading.

Were you a fan before 1993? Do you really know anything about the "thick history" after Lombardi?

[bobblehead]

I agree. We lost 3 of the first six games and that was before we were really hammered by injuries. The injuries now are a bit of an excuse for why I don't think we're a real SB competitor, but not early in teh season.


ST's are still bad

And it took us 6 games this year instead of 8 last year to simplify the offense and really play well. Hopefully next year it takes him less than 4 games. Capers always talks about keeping it simple. MM talks about being multifaceted, flexible and diverse. . . . I like Capers simple approach better because when MM is forced to go simple his offenses dominate too.

Vince already debunked this, but I'll say this. Losing finley was HUGE and changed the way we play. Also I believe Rodgers had a concussion early in that Washington game and wasn't right in the miami game. Despite this we played both games to the bitter end. Oh, and have I mentioned missed clutch FG's?

[retailguy]

Significant Injuries Week 1 or Before

Ryan Grant – played less than ½ of 1 game before serious ankle injury ended his season

Justin Harrell – played 2 plays of 1 game before ACL tear ended his season

Ryan Pickett – injured his hamstring in week 1, which has bothered him all year.

Chad Clifton - suffered from knee aggravation and swelling since before week 1

Josh Bell – played 0 games before ACL tear ended his season

Cullen Jenkins – has played with a calf strain all season and broke his hand in the first week of the season.

Clay Matthews – played with a hamstring injury since before the first game

Mike Neal – had a side strain before week 1 and has barely played this year before his season ended with a shoulder injury

Brady Poppinga has had a strained knee since before week 1, which eventually gave out and ended his season

Charles Woodson has been playing with a toe injury since before week 1

Atari Bigby – high ankle sprain kept him out until week 10

Al Harris – never recovered from multiple ligament injuries to the knee

James Starks – hamstring injury kept him out until week 10

Brad Jones – suffered from shoulder injury before week 1 and played with a harness but never did really get on track before his season ended

Significant Injuries Beginning after 3rd game

Nick Barnett – played 3 games before hurting his wrist ending his season

Morgan Burnett – played 3 games before knee injury ended his season

Brandon Chillar – suffered his shoulder injury in week 3 and was out or ineffective until he ended his season on IR

Mark Tauscher – suffered shoulder injury from which he never recovered before his season was ended.

Significant Injuries Beginning After 4th Game

Jermichael Finley’s injury came in week 5

Donald Driver – strained his quad

Derrick Martin – suffered season ending knee injury in week 5

Aaron Rodgers – suffered a concussion

Clay Matthews - reaggravated his hammie

Significant Injuries After Week 6

Rodgers – 2nd concussion
Matthews - shin problem

I probably missed a few in there and not just the bumps and bruises... Donald Lee was hurt, Quarless has been hurt, Corey Hall missed some games, Colledge with a knee injury, Collins with a knee and ribs, Peprah, Shields missed at least a game to injury, Bigby again, Zombo, ... In any event, the injuries definitely started early and continued to build-up early and often.

Despite that, the Packers started 3-1 this season before the injuries in Week 5 to Finley, Matthews and Rodgers against the Redskins. This was when fans everwhere predicted a coming apocolypse, which after the Dolphins loss, never came.

Credit the non-falloff to what you will (before Rodgers' 2nd concussion), but it certainly wasn't due to McCarthy's ineptitude.

I see a lot of parallel's to the 2001 - 2002 season. They started 7-1 and backed into the playoffs at 12-4, losing horribly in week 17 to the Jets, and then losing the infamous Vick playoff game at Lambeau the following week.

I agree with the perspective that you're cobbling together that McCarthy isn't to blame for the situation this year. But I hope you're not claiming that he gets a "free pass" for this season either. It exposed plenty of weaknesses that McCarthy and his staff need to work on.

[MJZiggy]

I see a lot of parallel's to the 2001 - 2002 season. They started 7-1 and backed into the playoffs at 12-4, losing horribly in week 17 to the Jets, and then losing the infamous Vick playoff game at Lambeau the following week.

I agree with the perspective that you're cobbling together that McCarthy isn't to blame for the situation this year. But I hope you're not claiming that he gets a "free pass" for this season either. It exposed plenty of weaknesses that McCarthy and his staff need to work on.

I don't think anyone's suggesting that there aren't things that he and his staff need to work on. But to say that he needs to be fired after this season is a little nuts.

[vince]

I see a lot of parallel's to the 2001 - 2002 season. They started 7-1 and backed into the playoffs at 12-4, losing horribly in week 17 to the Jets, and then losing the infamous Vick playoff game at Lambeau the following week.

I agree with the perspective that you're cobbling together that McCarthy isn't to blame for the situation this year. But I hope you're not claiming that he gets a "free pass" for this season either. It exposed plenty of weaknesses that McCarthy and his staff need to work on.

Yes, I absolutely agree that McCarthy isn't blameless in some of the losses, but he also deserves a ton of credit. If they can get into the playoffs, this team could be dangerous.

[RashanGary]

Yeah Vince. The Matthews one, in particular, killed us.

[pbmax]

Vets may have had problems on ST, but look at the lineup week to week. Its never the same and that unit needs time together to function as a cohesive whole. Should it matter? Possibly not. But it has mattered. Look at Matthews, Clifton and Woodson when they are unavailable to practice. They are less effective. Same goes for a unit like the coverage teams.

But for penalties, I agree that is on the team and specifically on the coaches and vets. Since that debacle in Chicago, they have reigned in the ridiculous numbers, proving that those difficulties could have been avoided much earlier in the season.

[mraynrand]

Yeah Vince. The Matthews one, in particular, killed us.

Matthews hammy, Rodger's concussion, and some bad mistakes - FG miss, Jones fumble and bad route probably cost the Packers three games, even with all the other injuries. This team should have 10 wins now. Stubby isn't the only one to blame. 10 wins and in the driver's seat for a playoff spot. It's a crying shame the way this season has gone. The Giants game this weekend is going to make 2002 at the Jets look like a competitive game. The Packers are going to get slaughtered like a used Michael Vick fighting dog.

[RashanGary]

Matthews hammy, Rodger's concussion, and some bad mistakes - FG miss, Jones fumble and bad route probably cost the Packers three games, even with all the other injuries. This team should have 10 wins now. Stubby isn't the only one to blame. 10 wins and in the driver's seat for a playoff spot. It's a crying shame the way this season has gone. The Giants game this weekend is going to make 2002 at the Jets look like a competitive game. The Packers are going to get slaughtered like a used Michael Vick fighting dog.


Yeah, but I do still have complaints with MM. The biggest one I have is that it's been two seasons in a row now where he came out flat on offense. By the time he got it fixed in both instances, we were behind the 8-ball. Both times, Rodgers has come out saying a big reason for his success was them simplifying the playbook.

I'm really hoping we don't have to lose 3 or 4 games early next season to learn the same lesson we already learned the last two years.

What further put me over the edge was Flynn coming in and dominating a very simple, QB easy game plan. I know Rodgers is great, but if easy stuff is effective, let's sprinkle some of that in too. Sheesh. There's no shame in doing some of the old-fashioned, easy and proven stuff along with his new cutting edge stuff.

I'd take some of Sherman's repetitive simplicity right about now. I love MM's creative/attacking personality, but it's nothing if you don't have a nice group of core plays that you count on and teams have to adjust for.

[retailguy]

Yeah, but I do still have complaints with MM. The biggest one I have is that it's been two seasons in a row now where he came out flat on offense. By the time he got it fixed in both instances, we were behind the 8-ball. Both times, Rodgers has come out saying a big reason for his success was them simplifying the playbook.

I'm really hoping we don't have to lose 3 or 4 games early next season to learn the same lesson we already learned the last two years.

What further put me over the edge was Flynn coming in and dominating a very simple, QB easy game plan. I know Rodgers is great, but if easy stuff is effective, let's sprinkle some of that in too. Sheesh. There's no shame in doing some of the old-fashioned, easy and proven stuff along with his new cutting edge stuff.

I'd take some of Sherman's repetitive simplicity right about now. I love MM's creative/attacking personality, but it's nothing if you don't have a nice group of core plays that you count on and teams have to adjust for.

I'm not sure that simplicity is the right word, but I get what you mean. With Sherman, there was a core of plays that we did well, consistently. When we needed a 1st down to keep a drive going, we used one of those plays and the drive continued. With McCarthy, you just never know what comes out of the bag o tricks. Sometimes it works, but more often then not, it backfires and he looks like a creative fool instead of a genius. The drive dies and then, they have to start over.

This current Packers team has no identity, and no bread and butter play on offense that you can point to to say "that'll work", the drive will continue.

[pbmax]

Yeah, but I do still have complaints with MM. The biggest one I have is that it's been two seasons in a row now where he came out flat on offense. By the time he got it fixed in both instances, we were behind the 8-ball. Both times, Rodgers has come out saying a big reason for his success was them simplifying the playbook.

I'm really hoping we don't have to lose 3 or 4 games early next season to learn the same lesson we already learned the last two years.

What further put me over the edge was Flynn coming in and dominating a very simple, QB easy game plan. I know Rodgers is great, but if easy stuff is effective, let's sprinkle some of that in too. Sheesh. There's no shame in doing some of the old-fashioned, easy and proven stuff along with his new cutting edge stuff.

I'd take some of Sherman's repetitive simplicity right about now. I love MM's creative/attacking personality, but it's nothing if you don't have a nice group of core plays that you count on and teams have to adjust for.

Did we (Packerrats) infer the simplicity this year? I am pretty sure there has not been reporting about the offense this year like last. Do you remember where you got this from?

Clearly they have struggled to get past or replace what Finley and Grant gave the offense, but I am not sure simplicity was the answer this year.

[vince]

Because of some of the injuries, I do seem to recall some talk of shortening up the number of plays included in some of the game plans, although I don't have a specific link to any documented discussion of it. Maybe Justin can source it.

[gex]

Significant Injuries Week 1 or Before

Ryan Grant – played less than ½ of 1 game before serious ankle injury ended his season

Justin Harrell – played 2 plays of 1 game before ACL tear ended his season

Ryan Pickett – injured his hamstring in week 1, which has bothered him all year.

Chad Clifton - suffered from knee aggravation and swelling since before week 1

Josh Bell – played 0 games before ACL tear ended his season

Cullen Jenkins – has played with a calf strain all season and broke his hand in the first week of the season.

Clay Matthews – played with a hamstring injury since before the first game

Mike Neal – had a side strain before week 1 and has barely played this year before his season ended with a shoulder injury

Brady Poppinga has had a strained knee since before week 1, which eventually gave out and ended his season

Charles Woodson has been playing with a toe injury since before week 1

Atari Bigby – high ankle sprain kept him out until week 10

Al Harris – never recovered from multiple ligament injuries to the knee

James Starks – hamstring injury kept him out until week 10

Brad Jones – suffered from shoulder injury before week 1 and played with a harness but never did really get on track before his season ended

Significant Injuries Beginning after 3rd game

Nick Barnett – played 3 games before hurting his wrist ending his season

Morgan Burnett – played 3 games before knee injury ended his season

Brandon Chillar – suffered his shoulder injury in week 3 and was out or ineffective until he ended his season on IR

Mark Tauscher – suffered shoulder injury from which he never recovered before his season was ended.

Significant Injuries Beginning After 4th Game

Jermichael Finley’s injury came in week 5

Donald Driver – strained his quad

Derrick Martin – suffered season ending knee injury in week 5

Aaron Rodgers – suffered a concussion

Clay Matthews - reaggravated his hammie

Significant Injuries After Week 6

Rodgers – 2nd concussion
Matthews - shin problem

I probably missed a few in there and not just the bumps and bruises... Donald Lee was hurt, Quarless has been hurt, Corey Hall missed some games, Colledge with a knee injury, Collins with a knee and ribs, Peprah, Shields missed at least a game to injury, Bigby again, Zombo, ... In any event, the injuries definitely started early and continued to build-up early and often.

Despite that, the Packers started 3-1 this season before the injuries in Week 5 to Finley, Matthews and Rodgers against the Redskins. This was when fans everwhere predicted a coming apocolypse, which after the Dolphins loss, never came.

Credit the non-falloff to what you will (before Rodgers' 2nd concussion), but it certainly wasn't due to McCarthy's ineptitude.
Just to be fair how do these match up with some of the other teams making the playoffs, like the Saints or Colts?

[Bossman641]

Just to be fair how do these match up with some of the other teams making the playoffs, like the Saints or Colts?

Saints have 9 players on IR. Casillas was expected to be a starter, not sure about Gay (either starter or nickel I believe), and a long snapper.

Colts have 17. Bullitt is a starter. Collie and Gonzalez are 2 of their top four WR. Clark is starting TE. CB Powers was a starter I believe. Sanders is a starter.

[Bossman641]

And just to follow up on my post, anyone thinkin the Packer injuries is anywhere near the norm is dead wrong.

http://espn.go.com/blog/nfcnorth

"The Bears' Week 1 starters have missed a total of 10 games this season; not one of those starters has missed more than four. The Packers have lost 69 games by my count, including 13 for tailback Ryan Grant and nine for tight end Jermichael Finley. Three of their four starting linebackers are lost for the season, quarterback Aaron Rodgers has suffered two concussions and overall the Packers have placed 15 players on their injured reserve list."

If anything, this underscores the Packer injuries. It's not like this team is just on the second stringers. We have 4th and 5th string LB's and DL's playing significant injuries.

[mmmdk]

I present to you:

The Bitching McCarthy injury choir boys! Their sugary voices whines through the air of the night.

[HarveyWallbangers]

Last time we had injuries like we do now, we went 4-12. Thankfully, Mike McCarthy is a better coach than Mike Sherman, Aaron Rodgers is a better QB than Brett Favre was in 2005, and Ted Thompson has loaded the team with depth. National experts think McCarthy should get consideration for coach of the year. Yet, the Bitching About McCarthy choir boys keep coming back.

[mmmdk]

Last time we had injuries like we do now, we went 4-12. Thankfully, Mike McCarthy is a better coach than Mike Sherman, Aaron Rodgers is a better QB than Brett Favre was in 2005, and Ted Thompson has loaded the team with depth. National experts think McCarthy should get consideration for coach of the year. Yet, the Bitching About McCarthy choir boys keep coming back.

Oh my gosh; I think I agree 'cept for coach of the year...unless we beat the Bears TWICE !

[vince]

I present to you:

The Bitching McCarthy injury choir boys! Their sugary voices whines through the air of the night.
The only whines are coming from the sheer brilliance and reactionary blindness of the Fuck it Up by Starting Over with a New Coach and Staff when the Team is on a Trajectory Toward World Championship Calibre Play and Possibly the Brink of a Dynasty Choir Boys....

[Freak Out]

TT and M3/staff deserve massive amounts of praise for what they have done this year considering all the roster shuffling that has taken place. Can they improve some areas of the team with a ST or OL coaching change...? Perhaps....but calling for the guys head after what has gone down this season is....quoting Tex here "the height of idiocy". :)

[Cheesehead Craig]

The only whines are coming from the sheer brilliance and reactionary blindness of the Fuck it Up by Starting Over with a New Coach and Staff when the Team is on a Trajectory Toward World Championship Calibre Play and Possibly the Brink of a Dynasty Choir Boys....
So that would be the FIUBSOWANCASWTTIOATTWCCPAPTBOAD Choir Boys for short.

[Smidgeon]

So that would be the FIUBSOWANCASWTTIOATTWCCPAPTBOAD Choir Boys for short.

How long did that take to type out? ;)