Coach of the Year

[Tony Oday]

I have been seeing some articles on the coach of the year award and I cannot believe that MM is not in the discussion. No matter how much we rip on him here he has kept a competitive team on the field even though we have a playoff team on the IR.

[HarveyWallbangers]

I've seen/heard people mention him in a few broadcasts.

[denverYooper]

I have been seeing some articles on the coach of the year award and I cannot believe that MM is not in the discussion. No matter how much we rip on him here he has kept a competitive team on the field even though we have a playoff team on the IR.

Peter King at least had him in the discussion in MMQB along with BB, Haley, Morris, Reid, Ryan, The Smiths, Spagnuloo and Tomlin. He went on to say that for him, it probably came down to Hoody, Morris, Reid, or Spagnuolo.

[sheepshead]

MM will get some votes

[Fritz]

Spagnola? The Miami coach? Why? They're like 6-9 or something.

[denverYooper]

Spagnola? The Miami coach? Why? They're like 6-9 or something.

That's Sparano. Spagnuolo is the coach of the Rams.

[Brandon494]

I know I rip the fat bastard a lot but if you would have told me the injuries we would have faced this season yet we would still be in the playoff race I would have laughed in your face then kicked you in the nuts. While he does have the occasional fuck up he has done a great job this year. Hes a poor man's Andy Reid IMO, without the fucked up sons.

[MichiganPackerFan]

"We'll get that fixed". I looked it up yesterday on NFL.com. The Packers Offense ranks in the top 4 for fewest penalties and penalty yards. The Packers Defense were 18th and 12th respectively. I have NO idea about special teams. It does seem like a LOT of progress has been made there.

[Smidgeon]

"We'll get that fixed". I looked it up yesterday on NFL.com. The Packers Offense ranks in the top 4 for fewest penalties and penalty yards. The Packers Defense were 18th and 12th respectively. I have NO idea about special teams. It does seem like a LOT of progress has been made there.

Absolutely. How many times in the last few years did we bemoan that the penalties would never be cleaned up? It was the sure sign that McCarthy was out of his depths. Now, however, that the penalties are cleared up, there are other things to complain about.

I guess some people can't truly be happy unless they can complain (I fall into that category sometimes too). I think Heaven will have a suggestion box just for people like that. :D

[Fritz]

Good points here. We - me included - bitched about those penalties, and that did seem to fall on the coach. But he did indeed get that "cleaned up."

Better stay clean now, too.

[mraynrand]

I think Sam Bradford should get coach of the year.

[mmmdk]

Detroit 7 Packers 3

[Bossman641]

Cleveland 34 NE 14

Name any coach in the league and I will name some bad losses for them.

[denverYooper]

Min 24 Phi 14

[retailguy]

Evaluating on individual games is silly in my mind. I don't believe McCarthy is "coach of the year" material in a good year, but I don't think you replace him either. Above average? Maybe. Maybe not.

I'm just not so enamored, but I'll wait for 2011 before bringing up the "too creative" label again. But when we're healthy, and the "creative genius" goes with a low percentage toss to try and win the game, I'm headed for GB to hit him with my car, and then I'm telling all you experts that "I told you so". :-P

[Tony Oday]

Well lets say this. With the losses in personnel this year, AR getting banged around, ST sucking ass...what if MM brings us to the promised land and gets that shiny new trophy that is the same as the other three we have? Is he on the level of the Walrus then? is TT better than Wolf? Is AR...well we all know he will be better than Favre, it will be the Montana Young Conversation all over! :)

[MJZiggy]

Well lets say this. With the losses in personnel this year, AR getting banged around, ST sucking ass...what if MM brings us to the promised land and gets that shiny new trophy that is the same as the other three we have? Is he on the level of the Walrus then? is TT better than Wolf? Is AR...well we all know he will be better than Favre, it will be the Montana Young Conversation all over! :)

I, for one, would like to have that conversation.

[billy_oliver880]

Haley should get it....

[vince]

Haley should get it....
Yeah, I think he'd get my vote too.

[Freak Out]

KC has built a he'll of a team.

[Freak Out]

Damn auto correct......and Bossman.....that avatar is driving me CRAZY! :)

[hoosier]

I'm just not so enamored, but I'll wait for 2011 before bringing up the "too creative" label again. But when we're healthy, and the "creative genius" goes with a low percentage toss to try and win the game, I'm headed for GB to hit him with my car, and then I'm telling all you experts that "I told you so". :-P

Did you complain after the Packers beat Chicago in the 2009 opener, when Rodgers hit Jennings on a 3rd and 1 bomb from midfield with less than 2 minutes to go and trailing by 5?

[mraynrand]

Did you complain after the Packers beat Chicago in the 2009 opener, when Rodgers hit Jennings on a 3rd and 1 bomb from midfield with less than 2 minutes to go and trailing by 5?

Without knowing for sure, I'd bet good money that he did.

[Bretsky]

H squred are both deserving.........Haley and Hoody

[gex]

Haley should get it....
3rd'd

[get louder at lambeau]

Hes a poor man's Andy Reid IMO, without the fucked up sons.

That's so sweet. I'm gonna cry.

[Tarlam!]

Well, the Team of the Year wins the Superbowl - even the 18-0 Pats lost the most important game due to solid coaching and solid playby the Giants. Usually teams peaking at the right time are that team, no matter how they start out. Steelers as Wildcards anyone?

But if there was an award for Organization of the Year, I give it to the 2010 Pack. Overcoming some devastating injuries means the scouts had to scout well, TT had to pull the trigger, Murphy had to keep upbeat, the coaches had to coach well, players needed to commit and play well with a few unsung heros needing to turn into stars snd sbove all, the fans needed to give the team love.

On the latter, I'll never forget the positive vibes around here despite the loss to the dirty birds.

From top to bottom, the GBP have their sheet together.

[vince]

Detroit 7 Packers 3
How about we play a little game mmmdk. Let's figure out the big picture together about whether McCarthy is a good coach or bad coach. You list a game McCarthy did a bad job, like you did above, and I'll list a game McCarthy did a good or great job and let's see who runs out of games first OK?

Packers 45 Giants 17

Your turn.

[Fritz]

Not that easy, Vince. I wish it were. What'll happen is that the anti-MMers will begin to argue that certain wins were despite MM and thus were poorly coached.

[vince]

You mean they won because of the talent that MM developed and coached up?

[Fritz]

Ah, you know the argument. The game should never have been that close, had he been a good coach they'd have blown out the Lions the first time, etc.

I'm not saying it's a good argument. In fact, I think it's lousy. I'm with you. But logic and reason are not the ruling lights of many, many fans.

[pbmax]

I keep writing posts that become screeds against other lines of thought. So I am just going to start to repeat myself.

McCarthy is a very good coach. Good enough to win a championship. He should remain in this position for a long time. Time will tell if the opportunity to deliver a Championship presents itself.

[vince]

Ah, you know the argument. The game should never have been that close, had he been a good coach they'd have blown out the Lions the first time, etc.

I'm not saying it's a good argument. In fact, I think it's lousy. I'm with you. But logic and reason are not the ruling lights of many, many fans.
I have no misgivings about changing his or anyone else's mind for that very reason, but if mmmdk is going to make claims and declare himself "always right," I'm hoping he'll make those claims stand up to scrutiny.

He may well be right in the end. Without taking anything else into account, the odds are in the detractors' favor. It's damn tough to win a Super Bowl. There obviously have been a hell of alot more NFL coaches (even good ones) that haven't won a Super Bowl than have. Even with great leadership and talent on the field, a lot has to come together at the same time.

[retailguy]

Not that easy, Vince. I wish it were. What'll happen is that the anti-MMers will begin to argue that certain wins were despite MM and thus were poorly coached.

And there would be some truth to those arguments too. There are some games where they appear to have been coached inadequately , and some where they weren't.

There is only one reason that this argument trudges on, some give McCarthy zero credit for the team, and conversely, some give him way too much credit. Until BOTH sides compromise, we are looking at (make your pick), argument Favre #2, or argument Thompson #2.

Vince, you're just as guilty as mmmdk... just on opposite sides of the fence.

[vince]

Guilty of wanting to debate the virtues and liabilities of the Packer Head Coach on a Packer forum rather than spewing meaningless platitudes about being satisfied with being "good enough" or calling those addressing the injury situation whining "choir boys" while ignoring facts in conflict with said position and declaring oneself "always right?" Hang me now.

I understand the interest in keeping disagreements nonpersonal, but that doesn't mean we have to shy away from differences of opinion.

[retailguy]

Guilty of wanting to debate the virtues and liabilities of the Packer Head Coach on a Packer forum rather than spewing meaningless platitudes about being satisfied with being "good enough" or calling those addressing the injury situation whining "choir boys" while ignoring facts in conflict with said position and declaring oneself "always right?" Hang me now.

I understand the interest in keeping disagreements nonpersonal, but that doesn't mean we have to shy away from differences of opinion.

Happy to hang you, I'm busy today, can we meet Tuesday? I'll bring the rope. ;)

Seriously, I don't think the discussions about McCarthy have been a debate, they've almost all been personal on both sides of the aisle and no new facts or theories are emerging. What is now being done is that past statements are brought up, out of context frequently, and then "debunked".

IMO, the debate is long over, but we'll see where you take it.

[vince]

I'm just trying to get the "down with McCarthy" crowd to offer something - anything - other than feelings, psycho-babble, and personal attacks.

[retailguy]

I'm just trying to get the "down with McCarthy" crowd to offer something - anything - other than feelings, psycho-babble, and personal attacks.

I think there's been some of that, but some of their perspective is pretty substantive. You say it's all psycho babble, I say it isn't. Why are you right and I'm not?

Just because you disagree doesn't make it all non substantive.

I also happen to think that some of your defenses of McCarthy and some of your previous defenses of Thompson were psycho babble too, but you seem pretty convinced by them so I suspect you wouldn't agree.

[gbgary]

like him as a coach...hate him as a OC and playcaller.

[get louder at lambeau]

I'm a supporter of MM, and think he's doing a good job. I don't think he should be coach of the year this year though. Maybe next year.

[vince]

like him as a coach...hate him as a OC and playcaller.
I find it hard to hate elite offensive production in both yards and points year after year.

[vince]

I think there's been some of that, but some of their perspective is pretty substantive. You say it's all psycho babble, I say it isn't. Why are you right and I'm not?

Just because you disagree doesn't make it all non substantive.

I also happen to think that some of your defenses of McCarthy and some of your previous defenses of Thompson were psycho babble too, but you seem pretty convinced by them so I suspect you wouldn't agree.
Which ones?

[Cheesehead Craig]

I keep writing posts that become screeds against other lines of thought. So I am just going to start to repeat myself.

McCarthy is a very good coach. Good enough to win a championship. He should remain in this position for a long time. Time will tell if the opportunity to deliver a Championship presents itself.

Agree 100%

[Bretsky]

Lovie Smith warrants some consideration as well

[Fritz]

I don't know about coach of the year...but consider that now Zombo AND Jenkins AND Hall are out for what is now the most important game of the season...while the Bears will be missing one guy, their number three receiver. And consider that not only do the Packers lead the league in injured reserve numbers, Ryan Grant (this is per the JSO) has missed more games himself than all the Bears' preferred starters combined.

After all that, consider that the Packers are 9 - 6 and can get into the playoffs if MM can patch the team together and get a win tomorrow.

I'd say that's a good coaching job, period.

[mraynrand]

I don't know about coach of the year...but consider that now Zombo AND Jenkins AND Hall are out for what is now the most important game of the season...while the Bears will be missing one guy, their number three receiver. And consider that not only do the Packers lead the league in injured reserve numbers, Ryan Grant (this is per the JSO) has missed more games himself than all the Bears' preferred starters combined.

After all that, consider that the Packers are 9 - 6 and can get into the playoffs if MM can patch the team together and get a win tomorrow.

I'd say that's a good coaching job, period.


Indeed. And when you consider that Rodger's concussions may have cost the Packer 3-4 wins, the performance of the team is even more impressive. Exec of the year should be Thompson, but it will probably go to whatchamaface in KC.

[MJZiggy]

Lovie Smith. Pffft. Let's see him deal with an injured reserve list that looks like ours. They had not even half of our injuries in 2009 and wound up 7-9. If M3 did that you'd have called for his head, but Lovie's worth coach of the year? Really?

[Bretsky]

Figured da Homers would laugh at Lovie Smith. THis is coach of the year for 2010, not 2009. The Bears have made some changes since then and Lovie has implemented them to near perfecion.

Shhhhhhhhhhh;at some point they've quietly snuck into a #2 seed ?

Did anybody expect them to beat us (go ahead and make excuses but they still did it)
Did anybody think they'd beat Phily ?
Did anybody think they'd beat the Jets ?
Did anybody think they'd be 5-0 in the division and have a better divisional record than GB ?

He's he's put a staff together with high ego's, managed them, and somehow got the biggest ego maniac on the staff to change how he's been use to doing things. Da Bears are not that good. Results don't lie. They are WAY better than we thought they were and Lovie Smith deserves his kudos.....even after we kick their asses tomorrow.

[get louder at lambeau]

I find it hard to hate elite offensive production in both yards and points year after year.

It's not that hard at all. All you have to do is cherrypick the plays that didn't work, especially near the goal line, and especially in losses, and criticize away! Ignore all the production, points, the lack of turnovers, and the winning record.

[MJZiggy]

Figured da Homers would laugh at Lovie Smith. THis is coach of the year for 2010, not 2009. The Bears have made some changes since then and Lovie has implemented them to near perfecion.

Shhhhhhhhhhh;at some point they've quietly snuck into a #2 seed ?

Did anybody expect them to beat us (go ahead and make excuses but they still did it)
Did anybody think they'd beat Phily ?
Did anybody think they'd beat the Jets ?
Did anybody think they'd be 5-0 in the division and have a better divisional record than GB ?

He's he's put a staff together with high ego's, managed them, and somehow got the biggest ego maniac on the staff to change how he's been use to doing things. Da Bears are not that good. Results don't lie. They are WAY better than we thought they were and Lovie Smith deserves his kudos.....even after we kick their asses tomorrow.

Actually, the point I was making was that when he had to deal with even half of the adversity that M3 did, they crumpled and went 7-9. And they haven't beat us twice, remember. Did anyone expect US to beat the Jets? Or Philly? Why is Lovie a better coach for doing the same thing completely healthy? Might Lovie have been able to pull it off without a starting running back? The Bears have had every break fall their way this season. They've been incredibly lucky and that doesn't make Lovie a coach of the year candidate.

[Bossman641]

I don't know about coach of the year...but consider that now Zombo AND Jenkins AND Hall are out for what is now the most important game of the season...while the Bears will be missing one guy, their number three receiver. And consider that not only do the Packers lead the league in injured reserve numbers, Ryan Grant (this is per the JSO) has missed more games himself than all the Bears' preferred starters combined.

After all that, consider that the Packers are 9 - 6 and can get into the playoffs if MM can patch the team together and get a win tomorrow.

I'd say that's a good coaching job, period.

Seeing that stat made me sick. Bear starters will have missed 11 games this season. Packers will have missed around 90 when all is said and done. And that's just the starters, don't forget about all the 2nd and 3rd stringers that are injured along the DL and LB.

[pbmax]

Figured da Homers would laugh at Lovie Smith. THis is coach of the year for 2010, not 2009. The Bears have made some changes since then and Lovie has implemented them to near perfecion.

Shhhhhhhhhhh;at some point they've quietly snuck into a #2 seed ?

Did anybody expect them to beat us (go ahead and make excuses but they still did it)
Did anybody think they'd beat Phily ?
Did anybody think they'd beat the Jets ?
Did anybody think they'd be 5-0 in the division and have a better divisional record than GB ?

He's he's put a staff together with high ego's, managed them, and somehow got the biggest ego maniac on the staff to change how he's been use to doing things. Da Bears are not that good. Results don't lie. They are WAY better than we thought they were and Lovie Smith deserves his kudos.....even after we kick their asses tomorrow.

But results do not tell the entire story, if you want to know who is actually better. In terms of the playoffs, then the record holds all the cards.

But if you want to know who is best, then you need to dig. And the Bears have had a season of good fortune, just look at the lineup of terrible QBs they have faced. Martz had to beg to get the job, so managing his ego has been easier since he was close to being drummed out of the league. Its been a fine season for them and he should get some consideration.

But I would much prefer to be in the Packers shoes than the Bears. Even if it means road playoff games.

Lovie should get consideration.

[gbgary]

It's not that hard at all. All you have to do is cherrypick the plays that didn't work, especially near the goal line, and especially in losses, and criticize away! Ignore all the production, points, the lack of turnovers, and the winning record.

i'm not cherry picking or ignoring. i haven't liked his play calling from day one. his big play mentality over moving the chains, his stubornness at times to try to prove a point, predictabillity by using the shotgun too much, and more, is maddening to me at times.

[Bretsky]

But results do not tell the entire story, if you want to know who is actually better. In terms of the playoffs, then the record holds all the cards.

But if you want to know who is best, then you need to dig. And the Bears have had a season of good fortune, just look at the lineup of terrible QBs they have faced. Martz had to beg to get the job, so managing his ego has been easier since he was close to being drummed out of the league. Its been a fine season for them and he should get some consideration.

But I would much prefer to be in the Packers shoes than the Bears. Even if it means road playoff games.

Lovie should get consideration.

agree with all of this reasoning

[Bretsky]

Actually, the point I was making was that when he had to deal with even half of the adversity that M3 did, they crumpled and went 7-9. And they haven't beat us twice, remember. Did anyone expect US to beat the Jets? Or Philly? Why is Lovie a better coach for doing the same thing completely healthy? Might Lovie have been able to pull it off without a starting running back? The Bears have had every break fall their way this season. They've been incredibly lucky and that doesn't make Lovie a coach of the year candidate.

Actually many of us expected to beat Phily. We are homers and going into the season most experts were telling us we were the favorited to go to the Super Bowl
Not many expected us to beat the Jets.

We've hardly given the Bears any credit all year for their accomplishments. We just keep calling them lucky. We LOST to a THIRD string QB at Detroit. Playing him should have been a lucky....so to speak....break but we didnt' capitalize. The Bears have.

You are comparing apples to meatballs when you compare the Bears of last year and it's staff to the Bears of this year and its staff.

The capitalization of breaks and end results, among other things, make Lovie Smith a coach of the year candidate

Shhhhh............two seed

Don't get me wrong; I still have homer shades and think we stand a better chance this year of going far into the playoffs. But my shades don't hinder my ability to dole out credit where it is due and look beyond the Texaspackerbacker theory of it being all about luck

[bobblehead]

But results do not tell the entire story, if you want to know who is actually better. In terms of the playoffs, then the record holds all the cards.

But if you want to know who is best, then you need to dig. And the Bears have had a season of good fortune, just look at the lineup of terrible QBs they have faced. Martz had to beg to get the job, so managing his ego has been easier since he was close to being drummed out of the league. Its been a fine season for them and he should get some consideration.

But I would much prefer to be in the Packers shoes than the Bears. Even if it means road playoff games.

Lovie should get consideration.

All that and the Lions beat them in week 1. What happens this season if the Lions don't get hosed on the TD call, and we don't get flagged for 18 penalties (IIRC 11 were "subjective" calls). Suddenly the bears would have been 1-2 and confidence shot. I think the officials did the bears a HUGE favor early on. That said, they look pretty solid now, with Martz offense coming together and all.

[get louder at lambeau]

All that and the Lions beat them in week 1. What happens this season if the Lions don't get hosed on the TD call,

Stop right there.

If every single play in every single game this season had happened EXACTLY the same, except for the ref's fucked up call on that ONE play...

The Packers would be playing the Bears Sunday to tie them for the Divsion title. I think it would get all the way down to the 5th tiebreaker- Strength of Victory. The Packers would win that tiebreaker. If I got that right, anyway. Think I did. Anybody bored enough, please feel free to double check.

Moral of the story- If that ref got the call right on that ONE play, the Packers would be playing the Bears for the Division Title and the #3 (or maybe even the #2?) seed in the playoffs tomorrow.

[Bossman641]

Actually many of us expected to beat Phily. We are homers and going into the season most experts were telling us we were the favorited to go to the Super Bowl
Not many expected us to beat the Jets.

We've hardly given the Bears any credit all year for their accomplishments. We just keep calling them lucky. We LOST to a THIRD string QB at Detroit. Playing him should have been a lucky....so to speak....break but we didnt' capitalize. The Bears have.

You are comparing apples to meatballs when you compare the Bears of last year and it's staff to the Bears of this year and its staff.

The capitalization of breaks and end results, among other things, make Lovie Smith a coach of the year candidate

Shhhhh............two seed

Don't get me wrong; I still have homer shades and think we stand a better chance this year of going far into the playoffs. But my shades don't hinder my ability to dole out credit where it is due and look beyond the Texaspackerbacker theory of it being all about luck

I think the playoffs will show who the true Bears are.

[Bretsky]

I think the playoffs will show who the true Bears are.


I sure hope you are right because this whole thing is just sickening

I think there is a very good chance the #5 seed ends up playing the #6 seed for the NFC Title

Wonder when that last occured ????????

[Pugger]

Actually, the point I was making was that when he had to deal with even half of the adversity that M3 did, they crumpled and went 7-9. And they haven't beat us twice, remember. Did anyone expect US to beat the Jets? Or Philly? Why is Lovie a better coach for doing the same thing completely healthy? Might Lovie have been able to pull it off without a starting running back? The Bears have had every break fall their way this season. They've been incredibly lucky and that doesn't make Lovie a coach of the year candidate.

Unfortunately because nobody predicted the Bears would be this fortunate this season he'll probably win it. Guys who surprise the voters often win. But we Packer fans know who did the better job keeping his team afloat in the face of a lot of adversity.

[vince]

i'm not cherry picking or ignoring. i haven't liked his play calling from day one. his big play mentality over moving the chains, his stubornness at times to try to prove a point, predictabillity by using the shotgun too much, and more, is maddening to me at times.
So you don't like his plays because he doesn't call the plays/formations you would? Don't the actual results count for something gb? How can you argue with elite points, yards and time of possession in pretty much every year he's been in Green Bay?

[3irty1]

I have a hard time saying someone was "out-coached" in a close loss. Close games are nearly always decided by a small handful of snaps and those small handful of snaps are never the reason to fire a coach. You'll very rarely lose a game because of Mike McCarthy.

[pbmax]

Serious question: Did most Rats envision a win at Philly? I would have thought most put that one in the loss column. Can anyone find the prediction thread?

[Bretsky]

I have a hard time saying someone was "out-coached" in a close loss. Close games are nearly always decided by a small handful of snaps and those small handful of snaps are never the reason to fire a coach. You'll very rarely lose a game because of Mike McCarthy.


Example........did you watch the Badgers game yesterday ? Terrible time management and use of timeouts....a lot of questionable playcalling.....a vanilla bob defensive game plan to boot

[3irty1]

Example........did you watch the Badgers game yesterday ? Terrible time management and use of timeouts....a lot of questionable playcalling.....a vanilla bob defensive game plan to boot

I'd say bad field goal kicking and poor job of finding a throwing lane by Tolzien. I don't quite understand a few of the playcalls and definitely don't understand what appeared to be a prevent defense from the start of the game but the Badgers were a couple of individual efforts away from winning, so I'd say they were in a position to win. I'd also say that the better team won and that TCU clearly had Jesus on their side.

[Guiness]

Example........did you watch the Badgers game yesterday ? Terrible time management and use of timeouts....a lot of questionable playcalling.....a vanilla bob defensive game plan to boot

As bad as McCarthy's time management at the end of the Detroit game?

That had to be the worst use of 4 and a half minutes I ever saw.