Offensive Line Coaches

[Patler]

With the already announced and other expected firings of a lot of head coaches, there will be many assistant coaches available. Jeff Fisher is expected to be fired in Tennessee. The O-line coach in Tennessee is Hall-of-Famer Mike Munchak. I have checked a number of "Best O-line" coach articles, and Munchak appeared on every one of them, usually in the top 5 and as high as #2. He is given outstanding marks for training new young lower round draft picks and having them play fundamentally sound and consistently.

He has not been given top talent to work with, has had different starters most every season, yet has produced solid results. Would be nice to have a guy like that in GB.


His bio from the Titans website (highlighting is mine):
http://www.titansonline.com/team/coaches/Munchak_Mike/4b982c77-f21c-4d91-bb67-3cdecf6f7f66


Pro Football Hall of Fame guard Mike Munchak is in his 14th season as the Titans offensive line coach.

Munchak is one of the most respected offensive line coaches in the NFL for his ability to teach and produce technically sound offensive lines despite annual changes to his positional group. Since becoming offensive line coach in 1997, he only has twice had the same starting five offensive linemen from one year to the next. During his tenure with the team, four different offensive linemen have earned a total of 10 Pro Bowl invitations, including Michael Roos (2008) and Kevin Mawae (2008 & 2009).

Last year, the offensive line paved the way for only the sixth running back in NFL history to rush for 2,000 yards in a single season, as Chris Johnson reached the landmark number. The team rushing total (2,592) was the second-highest in franchise history and was the fourth consecutive season to surpass the 2,000 yard mark as a team – the longest streak in franchise history. Additionally, the group ranked second in the NFL in sacks allowed with only 15. Since 1999, the Titans rank second in the NFL in fewest sacks allowed with 302.
As evidence of the stellar line play, the Titans have produced five different 1,000-yard rushers (George, Brown, T. Henry, White, Johnson) over the past seven seasons. The Titans are tied with the N.Y. Jets as the only two teams to produce twelve 1,000-yard rushers since 1996.

Although the names on the line have changed on a yearly basis, Munchak has consistently shown the ability to train younger talent. In 2005, he tutored rookie tackle Michael Roos, who only had three years of offensive line experience in his football career, well enough to earn a starting role for all 16 games. Roos matured enough under Munchak’s tutelage to earn All Pro honors and a Pro Bowl invitation in 2008. In 2004, then-rookie guard Jacob Bell replaced Zach Piller, who was injured in the opening game, and Bell would go on to earn all-rookie honors. The offense didn't miss a beat, ranking 11th in the league in total offense and producing a 1,000-yard rusher in Chris Brown and two 1,100-yard receivers in Derrick Mason and Drew Bennett. In 2003, he mentored Justin Hartwig into the Titans starting center despite Hartwig never having played the position. The line took time to come together in 2003, but would finish in the league's Top 10 in fewest sacks allowed, providing protection for NFL co-MVP Steve McNair and paving the way for another 1,000-yard rushing season for Eddie George.

Under Munchak's direction, the Titans offensive line has shown great versatility and an ability to match a particular style of play. He built a bruising, grind-it out line that helped George rush for a career-high 1,509 yards in 2000, a protection-sound line that cared for an MVP quarterback in Steve McNair and several editions that have shown the ability to do both.
One of the greatest Oilers of all-time, Munchak joined the club's front office in 1994, assisting the offensive coaching staff and providing quality control. He was later promoted to offensive line coach in 1997.

A former first-round draft choice of the Oilers (eighth overall) in 1982, Munchak played in 159 regular season games (fourth all-time on club's list) and 10 playoff games before retiring on July 21, 1994.

Munchak became the fifth player in franchise history to be inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame (July, 2001) and the first to enter the Hall after playing his entire career with the franchise. He was introduced by long-time teammate and friend Bruce Matthews, who became the first active NFL player to make a Hall of Fame induction. Munchak returned the favor in the summer of 2007, introducing Matthews as he entered the Pro Football Hall of Fame.
When he retired from playing, Munchak owned the club mark with nine Pro Bowl invitations. He had his uniform (#63) retired on Nov. 6, 1996, marking only the fourth jersey (at that time) in Oilers history to be retired (Earl Campbell's #34, Jim Norton's #43 and Elvin Bethea's #65 were the others). He also was named to the inaugural class of the Titans/Oilers Hall of Fame and elected to the Pennsylvania, Texas and Polish-American Sports Hall of Fames. Lastly, he was honored as one of the 38 Sports Legends of Houston prior to Super Bowl XXXVIII.
A native of Scranton, Pa. (3/5/60), and graduate of Penn State, Munchak and his wife, Marci, have two grown daughters, Alexandria and Julie.
I haven't looked in to the others that might be available, but it sure would be nice to have a guy like Munchak, although I expect he might be looking for an advanced position, (like OC) since he had total running game responsibility in Tennessee the last couple years, not just O-line.

[vince]

Fisher is almost assured of landing somewhere immediately I'd think. Without knowing anything about their relationship, you'd think it would take a lot for him to not just follow Fischer or take a promotion in Nashville.

The offensive line has been a disappointment this year, particularly in the run game, but it does seem to look better with a one-cut-and-hit-it-hard back like Grant, and it appears Starks, can bring. I'm all for replacing Campman based on the results, but I'm not entirely comfortable arriving at definitive conclusions to a problem with so many variables and so little information about so many of them, particularly what he's coaching, how he's coaching it, and whether the players are following him or not. We see a problem, but we really don't have any educated idea of the real root cause of it.

On a related note, it was downright embarrassing watching Colledge let Tommie Harris get up off the ground right in front of him and go sack Rodgers yesterday. All Colledge had to do was lay on him or give him another pop when he started to get up. Instead, in statuesque form, he watched him get up off the ground and run right in front of him to sack Rodgers. Colledge (and Wells too) appear to have more of a mindset of getting in your way than getting you out of the way.

[mraynrand]

All of these coaches will already be snapped up by other forming staffs by the time the Packers win the Superbowl in February.

[sharpe1027]

Maybe Colledge was afraid of getting called for a phantom hold after the Bulaga "hold". ;) Bulaga fell on a guy already going to the ground and his arm was in contact with the defender's shoulder pads. If having your arm hooked around a defender in that manner is a hold, Clay was held about 10 times.

[Patler]

Fisher is almost assured of landing somewhere immediately I'd think. Without knowing anything about their relationship, you'd think it would take a lot for him to not just follow Fischer or take a promotion in Nashville.

The offensive line has been a disappointment this year, particularly in the run game, but it does seem to look better with a one-cut-and-hit-it-hard back like Grant, and it appears Starks, can bring. I'm all for replacing Campman based on the results, but I'm not entirely comfortable arriving at definitive conclusions to a problem with so many variables and so little information about so many of them, particularly what he's coaching, how he's coaching it, and whether the players are following him or not. We see a problem, but we really don't have any educated idea of the real root cause of it.

On a related note, it was downright embarrassing watching Colledge let Tommie Harris get up off the ground right in front of him and go sack Rodgers yesterday. All Colledge had to do was lay on him or give him another pop when he started to get up. Instead, in statuesque form, he watched him get up off the ground and run right in front of him to sack Rodgers. Colledge (and Wells too) appear to have more of a mindset of getting in your way than getting you out of the way.

The offensive line has been a disappointment every year since McCarthy came. There have been new faces every year, but not much changes. In similar situations year after year after year, Munchak has gotten positive results, as have some other O-line coaches.

The Packer O-line play has been mediocre to bad for far too long. Rodgers will be lights out if O-line play improves.

[mraynrand]

Rodgers will be lights out if O-line play improves. That's a scary cool thought, because he isn't exactly chopped liver right now!

[retailguy]

If this team doesn't address it's offensive line woes, it won't continue to grow. Patler is right, it's been pathetic the entire time McCarthy has been here.

[Fritz]

On a slightly related note, is Shawn Slocum saving his job these past two weeks?

[vince]

The offensive line has been a disappointment every year since McCarthy came. There have been new faces every year, but not much changes. In similar situations year after year after year, Munchak has gotten positive results, as have some other O-line coaches.

The Packer O-line play has been mediocre to bad for far too long. Rodgers will be lights out if O-line play improves.
I agree with all of that. Bulaga and Sitton are new. Clifton, Colledge and Wells are not. Barbre didn't get it done. Spitz was pedestrian and had some injury problems. Lang is TBD. Tauscher got old and injured.

We'll see if the people who know far more than we do and have far more information than we do agree with the causation.

[swede]

On a slightly related note, is Shawn Slocum saving his job these past two weeks?

Funny, I don't hate Slocum so much when his special teams return kicks and punts well, pin the opposition behind the five yard line twice in the second half, don't make stupid mistakes, and limit the NFL's most dangerous return man to about 20 yards.

And as for Campen, I think it is pretty funny that people refer to Offensive Line Coach as a vacancy.

Boys can be so cruel.

[MadScientist]

Either Campen has pictures, or McCarthy keeps hearing that Campen is the most offensive line coach in the league and think that actually means he's good.

He certainly is offensive.

[pbmax]

Fisher is almost assured of landing somewhere immediately I'd think. Without knowing anything about their relationship, you'd think it would take a lot for him to not just follow Fischer or take a promotion in Nashville.

The offensive line has been a disappointment this year, particularly in the run game, but it does seem to look better with a one-cut-and-hit-it-hard back like Grant, and it appears Starks, can bring. I'm all for replacing Campman based on the results, but I'm not entirely comfortable arriving at definitive conclusions to a problem with so many variables and so little information about so many of them, particularly what he's coaching, how he's coaching it, and whether the players are following him or not. We see a problem, but we really don't have any educated idea of the real root cause of it.

On a related note, it was downright embarrassing watching Colledge let Tommie Harris get up off the ground right in front of him and go sack Rodgers yesterday. All Colledge had to do was lay on him or give him another pop when he started to get up. Instead, in statuesque form, he watched him get up off the ground and run right in front of him to sack Rodgers. Colledge (and Wells too) appear to have more of a mindset of getting in your way than getting you out of the way.

Was that the sack of Rodgers near the Bear goal line? I didn't see Harris on the ground, he and Colledge were engaged and when Rodgers went to his right, Colledge had no angle to restrain Harris. And then Harris made a great leap to catch Rodgers legs.

[pbmax]

Football Outsides Offensive Line Grade Ranks for the last five years:


Run Pass
2010 Packers 22nd 21st
Titans 31st 11th
2009 Packers 8th 30th
Titans 21st 3rd
2008 Packers 17th 14th
Titans 15th 3rd
2007 Packers 26th 1st
Titans 11th 16th
2006 Packers 16th 3rd
Titans 28th 11th
=========================
Avgs Packers 18th 14th
Titans 21st 9th

Is the difference between the two lines the coach or the QB? Because if a vet like Favre (or Collins) was back there, I think the Packers O line would outpoint the Titans line. Look what Favre could do with the line in his last two years.

Or is it the back (Johnson, White, Henry, George) that makes the line look better (Jackson, Kuhn, Nance, Starks, Grant, old Ahman Green)?

[Cheesehead Craig]

I'd be happy with an OL coach that would give us an average OL. It would be 2 steps up from where we are now.

[vince]

Was that the sack of Rodgers near the Bear goal line? I didn't see Harris on the ground, he and Colledge were engaged and when Rodgers went to his right, Colledge had no angle to restrain Harris. And then Harris made a great leap to catch Rodgers legs.
Yes it was. I'll get the play and post it. Harris was on the ground and Colledge was standing right over top of him. He had every opportunity to finish him off and let him right back into the play due to his passiveness and no second effort on the play. Granted he didn't know Rodgers had scrambled up, but that's no excuse IMO for him to just let his man get up off the ground and make the play when he was standing right over him the whole time.

[RashanGary]

If you look at this guys experience and compare it to Philbins, this guy is more qualified to be our offensive coordinator.


I'd love it if we made a change, but I'm becoming cynical when it comes to McCarthy. I have little to no hope that he will change the things he struggles in.

He'll still overcomplicate the offense and it will fall flat on it's face against defenses that disguise what they're doing. He'll keep Philbin, the one guy on our staff who's supposed to be an expert on the OL and is failing miserably. Capers has done more with less than McCarhty because he keeps it simple for his guys while makeing it hard for the offense. MM trys to make it hard on the defense by making it hard on the offense.

[pbmax]

If you look at this guys experience and compare it to Philbins, this guy is more qualified to be our offensive coordinator.


I'd love it if we made a change, but I'm becoming cynical when it comes to McCarthy. I have little to no hope that he will change the things he struggles in.

He'll still overcomplicate the offense and it will fall flat on it's face against defenses that disguise what they're doing. He'll keep Philbin, the one guy on our staff who's supposed to be an expert on the OL and is failing miserably. Capers has done more with less than McCarhty because he keeps it simple for his guys while makeing it hard for the offense. MM trys to make it hard on the defense by making it hard on the offense.

You do realize that the Packers, like most 2nd generation West Coast Offenses (Homgren, Shanahan, Reid, etc.), run option routes and that several times (including Drivers grab over the middle and Jennings second long bomb to the 1 yard line in the second half) were route adjustments to the defense the Bears ran, not the one they showed?

And I think you have oversold yourself on the idea that Rodgers get to choose the play at the LOS. Some plays have a run pass option and we saw just a couple of those versus the Bears and those are short, short throws. McCarthy also gave Rodgers the ability to get out of a bad play for the Dallas game last year. But he was not calling a ton of audibles yesterday.

Yes, as Aikman talked about the Bears would line up one way and then bail to a different coverage (Cover 2 mostly). Drivers big catch was against just such a coverage. The Packers do this too (often to Cover 3). But this is nothing new. And QBs must most post snap reads as well as pre snap reads. Sometimes, good defense stops a good offense. Especially when the good offense drops four balls and throws a completely unnecessary INT. Plus four drive killing penalties on your rookie RT, including two false starts at HOME.

Offense, heal thyself.

McCarthy has buried the needle and torched good defenses. Lovie just knows how to defend a West Coast O. It doesn't help that the run game was hibernating again.

[pbmax]

Yes it was. I'll get the play and post it. Harris was on the ground and Colledge was standing right over top of him. He had every opportunity to finish him off and let him right back into the play due to his passiveness and no second effort on the play. Granted he didn't know Rodgers had scrambled up, but that's no excuse IMO for him to just let his man get up off the ground and make the play when he was standing right over him the whole time.

Here it is. And I did not see Harris hit the turf after colliding with the other DT, Wells and Sitton. Colledge was still in front of him, but he did allow Harris to get back up. He still had a block on him, but he was in no position to stop Harris from vacating to the offense's right when Rodgers ran.

If he had laid on Harris, Tommie couldn't make that play, but I am not sure you want your O lineman on the ground while the play is still alive. My bet is Colledge should have re-engaged him harder after Harris got back to his feet. There was no reason for the DT to have the upper hand after hitting the turf.


http://www.nfl.com/videos/green-bay-packers/09000d5d81d69e6f/Bears-defense-sack-2-yd-loss

Stupid NFL video won't embed.

[pbmax]

If you look at this guys experience and compare it to Philbins, this guy is more qualified to be our offensive coordinator.

Philbin spent two years coaching TEs. This was the normal transition Holmgren used to teach line coaches the passing game so they could move up (eg. Andy Reid). Unless I missed something on Munchak's resume, he has only had the O line in his career. So he is not more qualified to be an O coordinator with no experience coaching the passing game.

And by the way, please read Munchak's CV carefully. He was in the front office for a year (94) then quality control and asst O line coach for 2 years (95-96) before being promoted. No other stops after he retired. Campen's experience up to the first five years in the Pro coaching ranks would be the greater of the two.

[Noodle]

Here it is. And I did not see Harris hit the turf after colliding with the other DT, Wells and Sitton. Colledge was still in front of him, but he did allow Harris to get back up. He still had a block on him, but he was in no position to stop Harris from vacating to the offense's right when Rodgers ran.

If he had laid on Harris, Tommie couldn't make that play, but I am not sure you want your O lineman on the ground while the play is still alive. My bet is Colledge should have re-engaged him harder after Harris got back to his feet. There was no reason for the DT to have the upper hand after hitting the turf..

At the time, I thought Colledge should have fallen on him, you see that all the time, but I wonder what some of our OL posters think (hear me ND?).

Man, ARod had both Driver to the left (probably impossible for him to see) and Jennings in the middle wide open. A little more effort from Colledge, and you have to think he sees Jennings for six.

[Patler]

Philbin spent two years coaching TEs. This was the normal transition Holmgren used to teach line coaches the passing game so they could move up (eg. Andy Reid). Unless I missed something on Munchak's resume, he has only had the O line in his career. So he is not more qualified to be an O coordinator with no experience coaching the passing game.

And by the way, please read Munchak's CV carefully. He was in the front office for a year (94) then quality control and asst O line coach for 2 years (95-96) before being promoted. No other stops after he retired. Campen's experience up to the first five years in the Pro coaching ranks would be the greater of the two.

Campen's experience is the greater of the two? Coaching high school, then two seasons as O-gopher coach and one year as O-line assistant?

[Patler]

Football Outsides Offensive Line Grade Ranks for the last five years:


Run Pass
2010 Packers 22nd 21st
Titans 31st 11th
2009 Packers 8th 30th
Titans 21st 3rd
2008 Packers 17th 14th
Titans 15th 3rd
2007 Packers 26th 1st
Titans 11th 16th
2006 Packers 16th 3rd
Titans 28th 11th
=========================
Avgs Packers 18th 14th
Titans 21st 9th

Is the difference between the two lines the coach or the QB? Because if a vet like Favre (or Collins) was back there, I think the Packers O line would outpoint the Titans line. Look what Favre could do with the line in his last two years.

Or is it the back (Johnson, White, Henry, George) that makes the line look better (Jackson, Kuhn, Nance, Starks, Grant, old Ahman Green)?

I am in no position to judge, but I did look at 4-5 articles on best O-line coaches. Munchak was very high on every one of them. Campen didn't appear once.

[vince]

You do realize that the Packers, like most 2nd generation West Coast Offenses (Homgren, Shanahan, Reid, etc.), run option routes and that several times (including Drivers grab over the middle and Jennings second long bomb to the 1 yard line in the second half) were route adjustments to the defense the Bears ran, not the one they showed?

And I think you have oversold yourself on the idea that Rodgers get to choose the play at the LOS. Some plays have a run pass option and we saw just a couple of those versus the Bears and those are short, short throws. McCarthy also gave Rodgers the ability to get out of a bad play for the Dallas game last year. But he was not calling a ton of audibles yesterday.

Yes, as Aikman talked about the Bears would line up one way and then bail to a different coverage (Cover 2 mostly). Drivers big catch was against just such a coverage. The Packers do this too (often to Cover 3). But this is nothing new. And QBs must most post snap reads as well as pre snap reads. Sometimes, good defense stops a good offense. Especially when the good offense drops four balls and throws a completely unnecessary INT. Plus four drive killing penalties on your rookie RT, including two false starts at HOME.

Offense, heal thyself.

McCarthy has buried the needle and torched good defenses. Lovie just knows how to defend a West Coast O. It doesn't help that the run game was hibernating again.
Good posting. I too think JH is grossly oversimplifying how the offense is reading the defense and adjustments are being made to the point of inaccuracy.

Regarding the Colledge play, I see no reason whatsoever why Colledge couldn't/shouldn't have given Harris an aggressive punch when he was trying to get up and had no leverage rather than letting him up and make the play. Instead he pretty much did nothing but stand in what he thought was the lane between him and Rodgers.

[pbmax]

[/B]

Campen's experience is the greater of the two? Coaching high school, then two seasons as O-gopher coach and one year as O-line assistant?

Yes, Campen had Munchak's first job, Quality Control and Asst. Line Coach for two years. then was Asst. Line Coach for one. That's three pro years as an O line Assistant. Plus several years coaching high school.

[pbmax]

I am in no position to judge, but I did look at 4-5 articles on best O-line coaches. Munchak was very high on every one of them. Campen didn't appear once.

I have heard him mentioned before as well. One of the other top names is Howard Mudd (he may be retired now) from the Colts. And those Colt's lines had trouble run blocking after Edgerrin James wore out and got hurt. There is also no doubt they benefit from Manning's incredibly quick release. And when the line was thought to struggle after last year's Super Bowl, Bill Polian blamed the talent and dumped the starting LG. Which, so far this year, seems to have helped the Chiefs (where Ryan Lilja signed) more than the Colts.

So while I agree that the O line needs to be improved, its QB and RB (at least its RB when its not Grant) are not helping. And I am not sure how to apportion blame among the component parts. But I do know for a fact that McCarthy's less than total commitment to the run game (also a scheme that often has trouble in short yardage) and the absence of Grant makes this line look worse in run blocking that it did last year, when it had a very good year even in short yardage.

This doesn't even consider Colledge's pass blocking decline or Tauscher's injury and the rookie replacing him.

[RashanGary]

Philbin spent two years coaching TEs. This was the normal transition Holmgren used to teach line coaches the passing game so they could move up (eg. Andy Reid). Unless I missed something on Munchak's resume, he has only had the O line in his career. So he is not more qualified to be an O coordinator with no experience coaching the passing game.

And by the way, please read Munchak's CV carefully. He was in the front office for a year (94) then quality control and asst O line coach for 2 years (95-96) before being promoted. No other stops after he retired. Campen's experience up to the first five years in the Pro coaching ranks would be the greater of the two.


My gut is with MM having a passing background is going to benefit far more from having a running game expert as his OC. Philbin is supposed to be that and he sucks balls. If you think Philbin's passing game qualifications are the reason our passing game is having success, we're just going to have to agree to disagree. MM is not GM/HC. He has time to be invollved in the passing game, and is. He needs his OC to take over the run game and he isn't.

More qualified to be MM's OC. . . . I'll take the Titan guy. He's lead successful pro run games. We'll never get to see who's right because MM will never change, but despite your condescending tone, I think I'd have you burried.

And you said Chicago ran almost all cover 2. Funny. AR said they mixed it up far more than he thought they would and it was cover 1. They showed a lot of cover 2 presnap though, which is guaranteed to get Rodgers in a bad play and exactly the opposite of what you said Sunday. Like Sunday, I think the truth is exactly the opposite of what you're saying, despite the, so-sure-of-yourself tone.

AR was confused Sunday post snap and Philbin isn't doing his job with the run game. I'd call those two things facts but they don't quite fit the technical definition of the word so I'll just let common sense say it to anyone who has their mind open.

[RashanGary]

I don't care who was more qualified when they got the job. Who did better at it. Those football outsiders stats account for efficiency. Some teams run it over and over and over. Other teams are passing teams that run it only to keep defenses somwhat honest. The Titans run it over and over and over. Despite not being as efficient, they are more dominant.

Whatever the case, this guy might not be the guy, but our run game and OL suck and MM needs a run game/OL expert that Philbin is obviously not. Whether he has the qualifications or not, he's failing.

[vince]

Of course defenses try to disguise their coverages, but you can't honestly think that showing one coverage presnap and switching into another at the snap is "guaranteed" to get the offense into a bad play. Offenses and "plays" are designed to be adjusted on the fly both pre- and post-snap. There are a variety of presnap false counts and motions that help offenses read what defenses are trying to disguise and as PB said, there are a variety of post-snap route adjustments and reads that are driven by the actual defense that is being played - regardless of what they show pre-snap.

The Packers under McCarthy and Rodgers have produced top 10 passing offenses and total offenses every year so far. Some defenses are better at disguising their coverages than others, some defenses are faster and better than others, and everyone makes mistakes in reads and adjustments from time to time, but a strategy as simple as your suggesting being guaranteed to throw off Rodgers and the passing game just isn't close to reality. I'm sure you recognize this so I'm confused as to why you even suggest it.

[mmmdk]

On a slightly related note, is Shawn Slocum saving his job these past two weeks?

I think a wild card win for Packers come sunday would secure Slocum, as that's the only way Stubby can save his buddy. TT want results and Stubby needs to show more if Stubby wants to keep his group of coaches/buddies. Capers is a TT hire.

[bobblehead]

Alex Gibbs seems to turn every OL he touches to gold, then either leaves or is asked to leave. Must be a real dick, but we might be able to tolerate him for a season or 2 with all the young talent we have that needs shaping.

[Iron Mike]

What's Jags doing lately?? 'Cuz it seemed to me that the OL didn't suck so badly when he was here, and we actually did cut-block a few teams.

[Smidgeon]

I think a wild card win for Packers come sunday would secure Slocum, as that's the only way Stubby can save his buddy. TT want results and Stubby needs to show more if Stubby wants to keep his group of coaches/buddies. Capers is a TT hire.

How do you know Capers is a TT hire? I could see the scenario where TT encouraged M3 to get the defense in order, but to undermine his head coach and make the hire himself? That wouldn't exactly bode well for an organization that prides itself in being well-run.

[denverYooper]

What's Jags doing lately?? 'Cuz it seemed to me that the OL didn't suck so badly when he was here, and we actually did cut-block a few teams.

He just got fired by the Omaha Nighthawks.

[swede]

He just got fired by the Omaha Nighthawks.

I saw that, and the Boston College thing added badly also. I think there is some real football talent in the guy but he must have some serious personal failings that are getting worse instead of better.

[Cheesehead Craig]

Jags always wanted that better opportunity and was seemingly looking for a way out whenever possible. Want no part of him.

[pbmax]

And you said Chicago ran almost all cover 2. Funny. AR said they mixed it up far more than he thought they would and it was cover 1. They showed a lot of cover 2 presnap though, which is guaranteed to get Rodgers in a bad play and exactly the opposite of what you said Sunday. Like Sunday, I think the truth is exactly the opposite of what you're saying, despite the, so-sure-of-yourself tone.

I am not sure and have said so repeatedly when talking about Xs and Os. But I do know this: I did not claim the Bears mainly Cover 2 in the post above. What I said was then when they disguised a coverage that I saw, they then bailed to a Cover 2. And what they showed first and then bailed out of was Cover 1 (or at least single safety deep). This is what Aikman showed on the broadcast more than once and what Rodgers told Aikman the Bears like to do pre-snap. This was the exact sequence they replayed in the beginning of the game on TV and it was the exact sequence which led to Driver long catch on the TD drive.

As for Rodgers and Cover 1: http://prod.www.packers.clubs.nfl.com/media-center/videos/QB-Aaron-Rodgers-PC/654b1a1c-7922-4493-a921-fc7df688c1d1

He said specifically they ran it and brought pressure out of it, more than typical. He did not say it was disguised and he did not say they had trouble picking it up or reading it. In fact, a lot of the deep throws were when they stayed in Cover 1. And one of throws were dropped.

In watching all the highlights, I saw one possible case of two deep safety switching to single.

http://prod.www.packers.clubs.nfl.com/media-center/videos/Big-Play-Greg-Jennings/2be80bf4-7ef0-4e8f-92d0-380b315c63ee

Greg Jennings deep catch on the FG drive in the 3rd Quarter. Pre-snap Packers had 3 WRs, 1 TE and 1 RB. TE and RB were in the backfield to block, Bears showing Briggs blitzing over RG. Bears have 2 LB nickel. They are pressing the slot and playing off the outside WRs. At snap, CB on slot blitzes and the safety on that side comes up to defend the slot WR. Its now just single safety, though its unlcear from TV just where the other safety lined up. From the speed of the recovery to the slot WR, he was probably partway in already. The two outside corners bail to play something like Cover 3 (they are retreating deep as fast as they can with eyes still on QB). Briggs backs out to cover the middle. Urlacher waits for the TE/RB to commit then delay blitzes.

Packers pick up the blitzing CB with Jackson and Quarless handles Urlacher. Number 90 retreats from DE to play D's left flat. So Bears are in a 3-3 zone, rushing 5. Jennings cuts off route in front of bailing CB (Aikman calls it a dig route) who slips when he tries to plant. 90 is not deep enough or inside enough to affect throw. Catch and run to one.

[Fritz]

Great thread. I didn't get to see the game, so can anyone tell me about the "completely unnecessary interception" that Rodgers threw? What happened?

[VermontPackFan]

[QUOTE=JustinHarrell;562154]

I'd love it if we made a change, but I'm becoming cynical when it comes to McCarthy. I have little to no hope that he will change the things he struggles in.

How about after we beat the Eagles in Philly this Sunday?

[swede]

Great thread. I didn't get to see the game, so can anyone tell me about the "completely unnecessary interception" that Rodgers threw? What happened?

To me it seemed that Jennings was running some sort of a comeback route. As he came back to the ball he described a looping "U" shape and as he moved upfield again Tillman came back, jumped to the bottom of the "U" and snagged the pass as it was thrown down and away to the right, toward the inside of the field. Something wasn't right about the play, and pocket pressure may have been as much to blame as anything. The route and the pass were not in synch. Tillman made a helluvva play on the ball, as he was completely extended and had a bit of his hand under the ball as he hit the ground. Upon review, the ball jumped like hell as he hit the ground but since they had already ruled the play a completed interception there was not a definitive view to overturn the ruling on the field.

Why was it unnecessary? I don't know. Peprah makes a pick in the end zone and we won anyway so...it's all good.

[vince]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81d66423/Tillman-picks-off-Rodgers

[pbmax]

I don't care who was more qualified when they got the job. Who did better at it. Those football outsiders stats account for efficiency. Some teams run it over and over and over. Other teams are passing teams that run it only to keep defenses somwhat honest. The Titans run it over and over and over. Despite not being as efficient, they are more dominant.

Whatever the case, this guy might not be the guy, but our run game and OL suck and MM needs a run game/OL expert that Philbin is obviously not. Whether he has the qualifications or not, he's failing.

Did the Packer run game suck last year? Were the protection problems due to the line or due to the QB? What about injuries?

If the Packers cannot protect the QB, how did Favre survive his last year in Green Bay with those rookies at guard? How has Grant hit the first three of his incentives in that contract?

While losing Grant has rendered the run game below average, the line and its coaches do not suck. They could not produce the points and time of possession they do if that was the case. To see truly terrible O line play, watch the Rams-Seahawks game again.

Would Munchak and a new system (and new players to run the system) really produce better results next year than a healthy Grant? I say that the odds are very even on that bet. So while I agree that Campen could be improved upon, the short term result might be a complete wash (might be a step back). Which is why this decision would be very tough to make. To be successful, it will come down to McCarthy being willing to run a different run scheme and then look for the best coach regardless of scheme. That would be the only way to upgrade the position with certainty.

[pbmax]

I saw that, and the Boston College thing added badly also. I think there is some real football talent in the guy but he must have some serious personal failings that are getting worse instead of better.

He was also jettisoned from the Buccanears as O coordinator close to the beginning of the season as their coaching staff thought his offensive installation was not NFL caliber.

[Fritz]

Uh, I guess the Pack won't be hiring Jags...

[pbmax]

Uh, I guess the Pack won't be hiring Jags...

Yeah. The Bucs firing was a big slap in the face. "lacked sophistication" and "not equipped" to install an NFL passing offense doesn't sound good.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/03/jagodzinski-not-equipped-to-direct-nfl-offense/

The article basically said they realized Jags knew how to install the ZBS and not much else. Its remarkable that Morris survived his first year. First he was promoted to D Coordinator then HC when 2 or 3 people turned the Bucs down. Then in camp he fires Jags and that same month they fired Jim Bates and reinstalled the Tampa 2.

Now with Josh Freeman, that job looks attractive again. Its a heck of a rebound.

[bobblehead]

At the time, I thought Colledge should have fallen on him, you see that all the time, but I wonder what some of our OL posters think (hear me ND?).

Man, ARod had both Driver to the left (probably impossible for him to see) and Jennings in the middle wide open. A little more effort from Colledge, and you have to think he sees Jennings for six.

I think if College had fallen on him and then an LB rushed up to hit Rodgers when he scrambled you would have been bitching that college was on the ground instead of engaging the LB. You don't want your OL in the habit of laying on one guy as if its his only responsibility in the world. Now, the fair critique is that an OL with a nasty streak would have crushed Tommie when he was about halfway up and there was no one else to engage nearby. Ross Verba likely would have placed a knee right in his facemask as he was getting back up.

As for seeing that all the time, I virtually never see a guy fall on another guy unless it happened as a part of putting him on the ground.

[bobblehead]

I think a wild card win for Packers come sunday would secure Slocum, as that's the only way Stubby can save his buddy. TT want results and Stubby needs to show more if Stubby wants to keep his group of coaches/buddies. Capers is a TT hire.

Capers was certainly not a TT hire. MM's first choice it seemed was Nolan, then Williams. If TT made the hire why did they first try to land MM's buddy Nolan?

[pbmax]

Capers was certainly not a TT hire. MM's first choice it seemed was Nolan, then Williams. If TT made the hire why did they first try to land MM's buddy Nolan?

Jim Haslett as well.

[bobblehead]

Jim Haslett as well.

What is your opinion of Alex Gibbs. he seems to make a great running game everywhere he lands. Is that bad of a cancer that he keeps becoming available?

[RashanGary]

Tony Sparano would be an interesting one if he gets fired. He might be interested in learning the passing game from MM and MM would be interested in having someone who he can really trust with the OL/run game. That's if Sparano gets fired of course.

[pbmax]

What is your opinion of Alex Gibbs. he seems to make a great running game everywhere he lands. Is that bad of a cancer that he keeps becoming available?

He has retired more often than Brett. Not sure what the story is there. But he used to be tied to the even smaller lineman school of thought. I have thought the older Packer tackles have been the biggest obstacle to running the scheme. But with the injuries and Bulaga's lack of camp time at RT, its hard to tell if he would fix anything yet. I suspect he would. Gibbs is definitely more accomplished, but he may not cotton the the hybrid scheme M3 is using now. He would like the FBs though.

[Guiness]

Jags has got a screw or two lose.

[swede]

Thanks, Vince. Looking at the video it sure seems that Greg made a mistake by not continuing to come back to the ball. You can see what Aaron saw and it looked good when he let it go.

[swede]

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d81d66423/Tillman-picks-off-Rodgers

Makes more sense with the link.

[Little Whiskey]

Thanks, Vince. Looking at the video it sure seems that Greg made a mistake by not continuing to come back to the ball. You can see what Aaron saw and it looked good when he let it go.

looks to me like greg was thinking long pass and Rodgers was thinking short. both looked to be open.

[pbmax]

Well since I helped veer us off, here is something back on topic: Mike Solari, Offensive Line Coach San Francisco 49ers.

Singletary is gone, but we don't know the state of his coaches. Solari has ties back to Bob McKittrick, at one time the most hated offensive line coach in the league because he taught his lineman to cut block. McKittrick was an assistant like Dick LeBeau at Pittsburgh, so revered the team vowed to never let him leave so he survived multiple coaches over his tenure. My memory is not good enough to remember if rules have changed but I think they are basically the same as when McKittrick would have ruled the roost. Solari took what he learned as TE/Asst Line Coach in San Fran (92-96) to Kansas City (97-06) where he worked with a pretty good group of lineman and produced some good running games. He also worked a year as O Coordinator.

He would have experience with the West Coast offense (under Seifert with Shanahan and Marc Trestman as his OCs). He had additional experience with a slightly different variation of the West Coast Offense with the Kansas City Chiefs starting in 1997. You probably can guess that means he worked with Schottenheimer, but he also ran into Mike McCarthy (QB Coach), Paul Hackett (OC), Al Saunders (AsstHC/Receivers) and Russ Ball (Administrative Asst. to HC).

Read a positive spin on his resume with some good details here: http://www.ninersnation.com/2010/1/21/1263833/49ers-name-mike-solari-offensive

Here is the Wikipedia page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Solari

[retailguy]

tom cable was an OL coach.