Packers take care of their own

[Patler]

Some interesting info from Tom Silverstein about the Packers handling of expiring and expired contracts:

http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/112910499.html


Since 2007 the Packers have re-signed Rodgers, Williams, Woodson, Collins, Grant, Jennings, Driver, Barnett, Chiller, Poppinga, Bishop, Lee, Clifton, Tauscher, Wells, and Pickett. A very formidable group! No real "mistakes" even if we might wonder about how much was paid to Poppinga, Chiller and/or Lee. No question about the others, even if Tauscher was injured.

The only significant loss I can think of during that time has been Kampman.

Free agents to be include three safeties: Peprah, Bigby and Smith; three RBs/FBs: Jackson, Kuhn and Hall; two O-linemen: Colledge and Spitz; in addition to Jenkins, Crosby and Jones. Not a very daunting group to have to re-sign.


As for the task ahead, my feelings are as follows:

Peprah might be a tricky one, is he signed as a starter or backup? What will he expect? Bigby really shouldn't expect much, and might not even get an offer. He just can't stay healthy. Smith is a minimum salary guy to bring into camp at this point.

The situation with the backs is interesting. If Johnson is an ascending player at FB, do they need both Kuhn and Hall? Kuhn adds versatility that Hall does not, but Hall is more valued for ST. Hall also misses a bunch of games every year due to injury. Even minimum salaries at some point will make at least one of them expendable in favor of a younger, cheaper player.

Colledge and Spitz? One might be re-signed, but maybe neither will be. Might depend on what they really think about Lang, McDonald and Newhouse; and who they might draft.

Crosby I expect will be kept, and won't be real expensive anyway.

I think re-signing Jenkins will be a tough task. It is sort of telling that reportedly there have been no discussions about an extension. I think the Packers are making alternative plans, perhaps like they did with Cory Williams. Or, it could be another Kampman-like situation and they will simply let him go.

Jones? Depends on his expectations. I think they will try to keep him, but at a reasonable cost.

If the Packers do not win the SB this year, resigning some of the FAs to short term deals might be a little easier because of the lure of a very good SB opportunity in the future, and the Packers desire to invest a little more in the present to get it done. I could see that happening with Jones particularly, since he should have a long career ahead of him yet as a WR, and the Packers wanting his experience and proven ability. Less likely for a guy like Jenkins who is running out of time for a big money contract, even though the Packers may be willing to go an extra step with him for a SB run.

[pbmax]

I wonder if the Packers, even in the uncertain CBA situation, are thinking they can tag Jenkins to trade him like Williams? But he might be too old for that. A pass rusher over 30 makes me think of Joe Johnson, but other GMs might not be so shy.

[Patler]

I wonder if the Packers, even in the uncertain CBA situation, are thinking they can tag Jenkins to trade him like Williams? But he might be too old for that. A pass rusher over 30 makes me think of Joe Johnson, but other GMs might not be so shy.

That's an interesting comparison, Jenkins and Joe Johnson. I think a strong argument can be made that Johnson was a more accomplished player when the Packers signed him than Jenkins is now. As I recall, Johnson had at least one, and I think several Pro-Bowl appearances. Injuries have been a big part of both their careers. Jenkins future could easily follow the same path as Johnson's did.

[3irty1]

Perhaps if Neal had shown a little more this season we'd be in good shape to franchise and deal Jenkins but so far Neal is about as healthy and reliable as Justin Harrell. Capers seems to have a million boners for Jenkins and I'm guessing that's enough to bring him back.

[Patler]

Perhaps if Neal had shown a little more this season we'd be in good shape to franchise and deal Jenkins but so far Neal is about as healthy and reliable as Justin Harrell. Capers seems to have a million boners for Jenkins and I'm guessing that's enough to bring him back.

But what if Jenkins is looking for $7-9 million/year for 4 years with half of it guaranteed in bonus or first year compensation? I can't see the Packers paying that, regardless. This will be Jenkins only chance to max out on a contract, and there is likely some team out there that will give it to him.

[mraynrand]

That's an interesting comparison, Jenkins and Joe Johnson. I think a strong argument can be made that Johnson was a more accomplished player when the Packers signed him than Jenkins is now. As I recall, Johnson had at least one, and I think several Pro-Bowl appearances. Injuries have been a big part of both their careers. Jenkins future could easily follow the same path as Johnson's did.

Maybe it already has, and we just don't know it yet. That would be another reason a new contract hasn't been worked out. If Sherman somehow gets the job in Cleveland, maybe the Packers could trade Jenkins over there....

[Fritz]

I really don't think Jenkins will be back. I suspect that Jones will be gone, too, in favor of a draft choice. He's going to want too much to stay, I think. And the Packers could be thinking that with Nelson coming back and Finley getting healthy, Jones might be too expensive.

[Patler]

I really don't think Jenkins will be back. I suspect that Jones will be gone, too, in favor of a draft choice. He's going to want too much to stay, I think. And the Packers could be thinking that with Nelson coming back and Finley getting healthy, Jones might be too expensive.

Agreed. I look at Jenkins' return as a long shot, especially since the Packers have learned they can play OK without him, even without Neal and Jolly, both of whom could be back next year. Jones will be kept only at the Packer's $#, whatever they are willing to pay, which won't be a big contract. Nelson gives them a #3 while they wait for a rookie to develop. I think Quarless has flashed enough that he gives them potential options, too, with Finley's return next year.

[VermontPackFan]

I wonder if the Packers, even in the uncertain CBA situation, are thinking they can tag Jenkins to trade him like Williams? But he might be too old for that. A pass rusher over 30 makes me think of Joe Johnson, but other GMs might not be so shy.

I dont think the Packers will just let Jenkins walk like Kampman, he is simply too valuable. Kampman was coming off a serious knee injury and clearly wasnot a good fit for our D. In my oppinion, GB makes every attempt to reach a fair agreement with him but will tag him if necessary. If they decide the price is too high, maybe a trade but I see him playing at Lambeau next year. Especially with all the pieces we have coming back for a SB run next year. Better than average 3-4 DE's who play the run and pass well and are versatile enough to play inside do not come around very often.

[VermontPackFan]

I really don't think Jenkins will be back. I suspect that Jones will be gone, too, in favor of a draft choice. He's going to want too much to stay, I think. And the Packers could be thinking that with Nelson coming back and Finley getting healthy, Jones might be too expensive.

Agree on Jones, just does not fit TT's makeup of a Packer

[gbgary]

i'll bet jones is back. with DD maybe having one more year as a number two he'd be the logical replacement. tt's not going to sign a fa wr and we won't be in a position to draft a starter. jenkins??? who knows. interest from other teams may be tempered due to his injury history.

[Patler]

I dont think the Packers will just let Jenkins walk like Kampman, he is simply too valuable. Kampman was coming off a serious knee injury and clearly wasnot a good fit for our D. In my oppinion, GB makes every attempt to reach a fair agreement with him but will tag him if necessary. If they decide the price is too high, maybe a trade but I see him playing at Lambeau next year. Especially with all the pieces we have coming back for a SB run next year. Better than average 3-4 DE's who play the run and pass well and are versatile enough to play inside do not come around very often.

I still believe Kampman could have done just fine with another year in the system, and Capers having a chance to better learn how best to use him. As it was Kampman had 25 "pressures" in a half season, and seemed to be coming on when he hurt his knee. He played a lot better than people give him credit for.

I think Jenkins perceived value has diminished with the Packers having to play without him this past month. The defense didn't miss a beat without him, and should be better off next year with Neal back, maybe Jolly back and Wilson having experience and an off-season.

My biggest concern is that Jenkins has missed over 25% of the games under his current contract. That isn't likely to get any better as he gets even older.

[vince]

Is the CBA deadline the same day as the start of free agency? So much of this is difficult to speculate on without knowing whether there will be a salary cap, what the cap will be, when it goes into effect, what roster sizes will be, where the restricted/unrestricted line will fall, etc.

The Packers are in the top 5 in spending in this uncapped year I believe. A lot of it was front-loaded money, but many of the new contracts are still more pay-as-you-go, so it's not as if the team will likely be sitting on a ton of cap space if there is a cap. Some tough decisions may need to take place - or maybe not if whatever agreement that comes into effect doesn't include a cap until 2012 perhaps.

[gbgary]

So much of this is difficult to speculate on without knowing whether there will be a salary cap...


when has tt worried about being over the cap recently?

[VermontPackFan]

I still believe Kampman could have done just fine with another year in the system, and Capers having a chance to better learn how best to use him. As it was Kampman had 25 "pressures" in a half season, and seemed to be coming on when he hurt his knee. He played a lot better than people give him credit for.

I think Jenkins perceived value has diminished with the Packers having to play without him this past month. The defense didn't miss a beat without him, and should be better off next year with Neal back, maybe Jolly back and Wilson having experience and an off-season.

My biggest concern is that Jenkins has missed over 25% of the games under his current contract. That isn't likely to get any better as he gets even older.

Agree, no one is a bigger AK fan than me. He could have adapted and played better with a years experience in the system especially after Capers had a better understanding of his strengths and weaknesses. I think they let him walk w/o compensation because of the injury and perception that he was not a natural fit.

[MichiganPackerFan]

James Jones will be back. With Driver wrapping up his fine career within the next couple of seasons, you'd hate to go from 4 very good receivers to 2 when your offense relies so heavily on the passing game.

[vince]

when has tt worried about being the cap recently?
TT has re-signed a bunch of guys in the last couple years and the Packers' player salary costs have risen significantly. Whatever the cap is going to be if there is one will be something TT will need to deal with in the years to come.

[MichiganPackerFan]

TT has re-signed a bunch of guys in the last couple years and the Packers' player salary costs have risen significantly. Whatever the cap is going to be if there is one will be something TT will need to deal with in the years to come.

The problem with the cap is signing bonuses are amortized over the entire length of the bonus contract. That means teams sign players for a long contract (say 8 years) and cut him after four. While they are no longer liable for the salary, the bonus money is counted against the cap for 8 years. Mike Sherman was TERRIBLE at this and TT fixed his mess. As I have read the contracts, a lot of the money that TT has paid out has been in salary form with higher initial years which applies against the 2010 (lack of) salary cap. There have been very few bonus dollars that will effect the cap in the future. If he can, it's time to get a few more contracts done NOW with guaranteed salary rather than bonuses. To the player their effectively the same (money now) but it's much cap friendlier in the future when the bulk counts towards 2010 only. This is SHREWD cap management.

[RashanGary]

Players I think we should keep

Cullen Jenkins - Keep him. DL is incredibly important. If we have too many DL, play more 3-3-5 nickle with Jenkins, Raji and Neal as your pass rushing lineman.
James Jones - Keep him. He might be the 2nd best WR on our team right now. Driver is near the end.
John Kuhn - Keep him. Catch, run, block, ST's. He's good.
Mason Crosby - Keep him. He's having a really steady year and has a big leg. There is no reason to change
Charlie Peprah - Keep him at borderline starter wage
Daryn Colledge - Keep him. We don't have anyone better. He's a stop gap until something better comes along


Players I don't think would matter if they left

Atari Bigby - Only if he's cheap for camp competition
Korey Hall - Only if he's cheap for camp competition
Jason Spitz - Only if he's really cheap as camp competition
Anthony Smith - Only if he's really cheap as camp competition
Brandon Jackson - Only for league minimum and really only for camp competition.

[Freak Out]

The Jolly Dranker will be back next year correct?

[swede]

Players I think we should keep

Cullen Jenkins - Keep him. DL is incredibly important. If we have too many DL, play more 3-3-5 nickle with Jenkins, Raji and Neal as your pass rushing lineman.
James Jones - Keep him. He might be the 2nd best WR on our team right now. Driver is near the end.
John Kuhn - Keep him. Catch, run, block, ST's. He's good.
Mason Crosby - Keep him. He's having a really steady year and has a big leg. There is no reason to change
Charlie Peprah - Keep him at borderline starter wage
Daryn Colledge - Keep him. We don't have anyone better. He's a stop gap until something better comes along


Players I don't think would matter if they left

Atari Bigby - Only if he's cheap for camp competition
Korey Hall - Only if he's cheap for camp competition
Jason Spitz - Only if he's really cheap as camp competition
Anthony Smith - Only if he's really cheap as camp competition
Brandon Jackson - Only for league minimum and really only for camp competition.

I think I agree with all that.


My guess is that the Pack likes BJack better than you do, though. He's like one of those doughnut tires you keep in the trunk. It's not much for performance but it will allow you to keep going until you get the real tire fixed.

[Patler]

The Jolly Dranker will be back next year correct?

It will be up to the Commish. Jolly can request reinstatement after the Super Bowl. It's not for certain that he will get it. Depends if he has been a good boy or not, and what the Commish thought about the original circumstances surrounding his legal troubles and the basis for his suspension (which has never been explained clearly). He could chose to deny the request and set a later date for a further request.

Personally, I think he will be reinstated, unless he has failed to follow through on any of the court requirements that were handed down, or any requirements or suggestions that might have come from the NFL.

[swede]

Personally, I think he will be reinstated, unless he has failed to follow through on any of the court requirements that were handed down, or any requirements or suggestions that might have come from the NFL.

I have a suggestion for JJolly: Make new friends and dump the old, one is silver and the other aint paroled.

[Fritz]

Here's another suggestion: Make new friends but don't diss the old, cuz if you do, you might get rolled.

[pbmax]

Is the CBA deadline the same day as the start of free agency? So much of this is difficult to speculate on without knowing whether there will be a salary cap, what the cap will be, when it goes into effect, what roster sizes will be, where the restricted/unrestricted line will fall, etc.

The Packers are in the top 5 in spending in this uncapped year I believe. A lot of it was front-loaded money, but many of the new contracts are still more pay-as-you-go, so it's not as if the team will likely be sitting on a ton of cap space if there is a cap. Some tough decisions may need to take place - or maybe not if whatever agreement that comes into effect doesn't include a cap until 2012 perhaps.

Yep. CBA expires at the end of this League Year. Which would, usually kick of the new League Year and Free Agency. One thing that could hurt players financially would be bonuses that were scheduled to be paid out at the beginning of the 2011 League Year. Absent a new CBA, there payment will be delayed.

[Joemailman]

Packers have extended the contract of their long-snapper. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/112963749.html

Goode move.

[vince]

Based on the current state of negotiations, it seems as if the "deadline" won't be reached. The sides are digging in their heals at this point and not talking. I think there may ultimately be football next year, but without a CBA in place through free agency period and maybe even the draft and beyond. That would seem to require some sort of transition plan toward whatever cap would be agreed to. Bottom line: next year (if/when it's played) could well be played without a cap. If that's the case, it may increase the odds of re-signing Jenkins.

[denverYooper]

Packers have extended the contract of their long-snapper. http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/112963749.html

Goode move.

Indeed. Since Masthay looks to be a keeper as well, Crosby's LS + holder unit should be stable for a few seasons. Maybe now we'll be able to find out if revolving LS/holder combos hurt Crosby's accuracy :).

[woodbuck27]

Nice analysis Patler.

The Packers have invested alot in Spitz and Colledge. I'll be surprized if either or both go.

Mason Crosby stays.

"The situation with the backs is interesting. If Johnson is an ascending player at FB, do they need both Kuhn and Hall? Kuhn adds versatility that Hall does not, but Hall is more valued for ST. Hall also misses a bunch of games every year due to injury. Even minimum salaries at some point will make at least one of them expendable in favor of a younger, cheaper player." Patler

Yup. Choose 'only' one of those three and draft or bring in a reasonably priced FA. Too bad Hall can't stay healthy. He has talent and always reliable on ST's.

"Jones? Depends on his expectations. I think they will try to keep him, but at a reasonable cost." Patler

DD is getting older no matter what his conditioning is and Jones knows the system and if his price is righ he'll be re-signed.

GO PACK GO !!

[swede]

Based on the current state of negotiations, it seems as if the "deadline" won't be reached. The sides are digging in their heals at this point and not talking. I think there may ultimately be football next year, but without a CBA in place through free agency period and maybe even the draft and beyond. That would seem to require some sort of transition plan toward whatever cap would be agreed to. Bottom line: next year (if/when it's played) could well be played without a cap. If that's the case, it may increase the odds of re-signing Jenkins.

Do other guidelines, such as minimum wage and roster limits apply?

[pbmax]

I am not a labor lawyer. But I think if the CBA expires and the owner's don't declare a lockout (which is essentially a way to enforce their unwillingness to live under the former CBA rules) the next step would be for one of the parties to declare an impasse at some point. They would then go to court looking to tag the other side with failure to negotiate in good faith. The players would be angling for arbitration and the owners would be angling to impose work rules, which would be something similar to the last CBA but with tweaks like they are currently asking.

If a season is played next year with no CBA, it probably would be under the work rules while the players litigate their legitimacy OR an agreement between the two sides to continue under the old CBA. The latter is unlikely unless they are REAL close to a deal.

[Freak Out]

It will be up to the Commish. Jolly can request reinstatement after the Super Bowl. It's not for certain that he will get it. Depends if he has been a good boy or not, and what the Commish thought about the original circumstances surrounding his legal troubles and the basis for his suspension (which has never been explained clearly). He could chose to deny the request and set a later date for a further request.

Personally, I think he will be reinstated, unless he has failed to follow through on any of the court requirements that were handed down, or any requirements or suggestions that might have come from the NFL.

Thanks Patler. I hope to hell he has kept his nose clean and can get back to playing...he made a big difference when he was in.

[pbmax]

Thanks Patler. I hope to hell he has kept his nose clean and can get back to playing...he made a big difference when he was in.

He was leading the team in INTs for a while. :)

[Freak Out]

No doubt! How many INTS does the DL have since he left? :)

[Patler]

I am not a labor lawyer. But I think if the CBA expires and the owner's don't declare a lockout (which is essentially a way to enforce their unwillingness to live under the former CBA rules) the next step would be for one of the parties to declare an impasse at some point. They would then go to court looking to tag the other side with failure to negotiate in good faith. The players would be angling for arbitration and the owners would be angling to impose work rules, which would be something similar to the last CBA but with tweaks like they are currently asking.

If a season is played next year with no CBA, it probably would be under the work rules while the players litigate their legitimacy OR an agreement between the two sides to continue under the old CBA. The latter is unlikely unless they are REAL close to a deal.

Don't forget that the union and players have already had initial discussion about decertification of the NFLPA if no agreement is reached.